August- False Positives(THEBAUSFFS)/ZED in E-Sports?/ Pros-Streamers R TRAPPED/Toxicity (PEKINWOOF)

[@whatifwevibed]

At this point august has the same 4 discussions every single stream man

[@arkhilean7427]

The pain of people either not hearing the answers of questions they've had before, or not accepting the answer so asking again expecting a different result because they themselves asked

[@whichhunter7087]

Youre right, for the most part I learn something from each clip but they do circle the same ideas. Ill say one of the more recent clips about liandrys being op was hard to understand. His comment was addressing liandrys being OP and a consistent pick. His take away was nerf liandry. I wanna understand why if an item is overpicked do you nerf it versus addressing the need for picking an item, i.e. lots of sources of HP​@arkhilean7427

[@JBlandford]

It seems like every question he gets is about Inting, whatever flavor of the month being overpowered, Champs being good/bad in pro, and ADC top

[@einjharrelraca]

The issue with assassins in pro play is their primary form of counterplay IS teamplay, and if you remove that, then you need to give the squishies they counter actual counterplay against them that isnt just "hope your tank/enchanter/bruiser has eyeballs and isnt a wannabe anime protagonist. And well, assassin players would really not like that. Also the issue with toxicity people are having in this game and inters and shit isnt that not enough is being done about them. Its that absolutely NOTHING gets done about them. If they dont say the rito nono words, they never see any punishments.

[@Tinr2d2]

What sets a champ like akali apart from other assassins? She has seen a decent amount of play compared to talon, qiyana, zed, etc

[@einjharrelraca]

@@Tinr2d2 she isnt really seeing much play at all right now in the pro scene? And what little play she is seeing she's getting smashed in with a 40% winrate on the pro stage. If i had to guess why shes seeing any play in pro, its because people are trying to use her as an azir counterpick? Now if you're talking about in the past, that was before she got half of the shit in her kit ripped put because she was so disgustingly broken for the 2 years after her release.

[@riven4121]

@@Tinr2d2 At the time Akali was picked she was a very good counterpick into the meta tops and mids and is incredibly safe from ganks.

[@satorrotas93]

@@Tinr2d2Simply put, Akali has much more survivability than most assassins. Her W combined with her health pool make her a much safer pick than someone like Zed or Talon.

[@atomickarate3421]

Since August gets asked like every question under the sun even if it isn't his department (probably because of the way he talks) There should someone from the security team and art team you can also readily talk to. Especially since people constantly are confused about how the security or system works or how champions get skins and what goes into it.

[@einjharrelraca]

im pretty sure august is doing this in his free time, cause he's streaming for fun, he just happens to also be a dev.

[@JamesBaleLA]

Shoutout Pekin Woof! My favorite LOL streamer

[@danvy4795]

“Avoiding false positives is super important” CS2 kicking me mid game because I practiced counter strafing and it things I’m using automated inputs

[@somebodyWhoExistsIGuess]

Couldn't you make assassins more viable in pro by making them better with team play? For example, assassins benefit a lot from roaming, so making people less lane trapped would make them stronger (increased lane trap in S14 also contributes to Mid ADC problem). I'm sure there are other options as well, like making better options to move around the map as an assassin (stuff like out of combat movement on rune pages or cheap items), since map control is so disproportionately important in pro.

[@User-pu3lc]

You don’t need to ban inters if you are worried about false positives… you could put them in a 48 hour timeout from ranked.

[@keromora]

Akali was a proplay staple while being dogshit at literally every elo. It’s definitely possible to design a champ for proplay, they just have to be content with the fact they will probably ONLY be viable in proplay.

[@seamusrichardson5601]

Akali having dogshit winrate in solo queue has a lot more to do with the fact that she is a character that people really WANT to play, but not many people actually understand. Her winrate can be like 47% and she is still broken because her 47% winrate isnt her being weak its her being piloted by like 5 million new players or first timers on her. She is a hot woman, so her winrate automatically goes down, which sounds ridiculous but it is a real thing that happens.

[@ruven782]

There's a mute button for toxicity but i cant mute trolls from throwing the game

[@skaarlner]

i think its so disgusting that you can completely grief and troll and as long as you avoid: 1. typing too much/typing bad stuff 2. having a kda that looks like 0/12 or 2/14 sth like that If you dont do these 2 things you can troll as much as you want and riot WILL NEVER bann you unless you get specifically looked at through support tickets

[@fredrikandersson1538]

Which they dont. I sent a ticket on a duo which both ran around nexus in a free win due to disagreeing with a jungle call for 5 minutes until we lost the game. Nothing happened. Reporting is a waste of time sadly

[@joeosborn6911]

No! Voice chat would be bad for people who are bad at the game and can't hide it anymore. It would hold people accountable, and remove every single troll through the other 4 players bullying him.

[@Aeroreido]

I have to say the system detects slurs, I had a jungler going 0/6 wishing everyone and their family c and to end their life and the ones of their loved ones. There was punishment from the message our team received but it was for "being afk"., which was confusing, and it happened on multiple games, it's always the default "afk" message no matter what they actually do. High emerald, low Dia is extremely toxic, to a point where I have to mute every second game.

[@stefanristic9245]

I wonder what is his opinion on the new chest acquiring system and on aurora because in high mmr her kit is SOOOO obnoxious i mean invis dash on e and w she can dash inside the ult 3 times while being untargetable and inside of her ult animation shes unstoppable as well while dealing insane damage win rates are the result of that too(by high mmr i mean gm challanger and high master)

[@shibaraccoon8740]

Wouldn’t the best way to handle the steamer trolling issue is give special reports to streamers? When I say streamers I mean positive ones that are trusted (Mr zap comes to mind) where their reports get looked at personally by someone at riot? Maybe you can give all streamers at high elo a couple special reports that get used up if they come back false and returned if they are positive reports? For instance each streamer gets 3 special reports and they can use them and a rioter will manually look over the game / situation. I feel this would massively impact people trolling because there is a popular streamer in the lobby, you can even try to keep the reports hush hush at first to catch more people being shitty with a streamer in the lobby. And no I don’t mean god powers but I mean trolling because steamer in the lobby, good or bad for the steamer, anything that hurts the integrity of the game.

[@paragonviolet1719]

8:30 It is actually true. I love playing league some much even after playing for 11 years. the difference is if I am bored I can just stop playing league for an extended period of time. then when I want to I can just come back and spam league as much as I want.

[@tosfriendly]

yea very hard to figure out me locking in yuumi mid with ghost cleanse going 0/10

[@omarijackson1034]

The issue is what if you want to genuinely try yuumi mid? thats not inting you may think it is but its not its a slippery slope to call playing certain champs in certain rolls and kda in a game is such a wide margin of troll to just bad at the game

[@tosfriendly]

​@@omarijackson1034yea its a slope but ther are some things that are not on the edge but 20 meters past the slope hovering over the void. They can see what champ you played. They can see what rank you are. They can see your performance. Its not like i want some guy who first times yuumi in blind pick at acc lvl 7 to get banned. Some things are clear same as selling all items into running down or afk. I get not banning ppl for afk/dc cause life happens but if you sell items and then afk whats the excuse?

[@lukewilson1282]

⁠​⁠@@tosfriendlythat’s literally already something caught by the system though? Like, selling items and going afk consistently will 100% get you warnings and then a ban if you keep doing it, and it’ll happen even faster when 9 people report you for inting and going afk after the game ends. He also talks about how it’s difficult to ban people based on things like KD or off meta strategies in the video. Do you want to ban people from ever playing Yuumi mid, from locking in certain summoners, or for going over a certain number of deaths during a game? Maybe some combination of all three? If that’s the case then how do you account for edge case strategies that look similar to “inting” but are played by people very much still trying to win? And again, if someone is consistently going 0/10 every game, they’ll be reported by every single player in the lobby and likely issued a ban if they keep doing it. The systems aren’t designed to identify inting and ban someone immediately after a game, they work over the course of multiple games based on patterns of behavior.

[@tosfriendly]

@@lukewilson1282 selling items and going afk get you the same "punishment" as just going afk. Thats the point. And you are acting as if its fking impossible to have thresholds where you start banning ppl over inting. "edge cases" if you have 1 false possitive for 10000 correct ones its a good change for the game. Its not the death penality its a fking league acc. Also wtih how far Ai has come looking at chat logs for intent to grief/run it should be more than possible now.

[@lukewilson1282]

@@tosfriendly That’s a lot of words to tell me you have no experience in this and no clue how these systems work. Maybe apply to Riot with your genius ideas of “false positives are totally acceptable” and “just use AI lol”. They surely can’t afford to pass up a generational talent such as yourself.

[@Corode713]

I play with friends in comms. They don't listen lol.

[@darkumineru1681]

i feel like most toxicity i see is due to X not knowing Y (like a jng will flame a top or mid moving even tho they cant due to massive wave or mana or hp CD's wave stats a top will flame a jng even though they where unable to countergank due to being bot with dragon or adc/sup screaming "jng gap cant even gank" at minute 4 with the jng just going out of base or basing at top after a kill) like if the average knowledge is upped it will reduce the "quick" toxic where they just type "jng gap" and so on and maybe missing ping a few times (and the problem in league is how u can one trick u can play just 1 role and no other u can play just selfish not even care for the other lanes and or how they work to get apex tier of play)

[@shibaraccoon8740]

In order to play ranked you should have to get mastery 10 on at least one champion in each role. And we are not talking flex champs, just track the games played and if they are mostly x champ in z role then it counts. This should help out the general player base a ton

[@lukasraabe7174]

Bring back tribunal!!! Make it like overwolf from cs let players watch the replay and decide.

[@darkumineru1681]

will be cool to see a assassin made with pro in mind fully to try and see how it works and make it work for pro but not soloQ low MMR has i dont think any assasin can be reworked to make it happen but we can see a assassin made for it

[@ArchyPoppy]

it was qiyana and zed and they need to nerf them constantly because they take over soloq with any given little buff

[@einjharrelraca]

@@ArchyPoppy god qiyana is such a disgusting champion when she is strong. Just 100-0s people, under their own turrets at level 3 with a longsword and a dream. XD

[@ArchyPoppy]

@@einjharrelraca and shes disgusting to play when weak.

[@einjharrelraca]

@@ArchyPoppy im okay with that. XD level 3 turret dives from full hp should not be possible.

[@scdocarlos1633]

Inting strategy should not be acceptable at all.

[@LNRDi]

What if we just made Zed... not fair for low elo? Not all champs have to be fair at all ELOs remember? We're okay with Yorick and Briar being silver monsters and Garen and Malzahar running all over gold, why are we not okay with assassins being unfair at low ELO? If the assassin truly is difficult to play well, then the mains will be split between Iron and Diamond+ and that would be a good thing, no?

[@darkumineru1681]

the problem comes from ways of them achieving this a garen has set counterplays same with malz a assassin like zed does not same with akali and others if u are good at them u win if not u lose but the time it might take u to get that rank u are meant to play at depends on how much u play and how consistent u play and even just if u play super casual blind pick or flex below dia u will be forced to fight them over and over if they are strong due to how u can fluctuate yorick briar garen malz all have counterplay however little it is and thats by actively stopping them from stomping has they are not full burst from a screen away they can 1v5 sure but thats more with comp or how the game played out more so then the garen playing well while assassins can carry sure but u can still win games against them so they can hard stomp make the game unplayable then lose still to good macro and be stuck for more players to play against (its the same problem has low MMR kata mid)

[@LNRDi]

@@darkumineru1681 I agree, but does that mean that League can never have balance across ELOs so long as the assassin archetype exists? that almost seems like an entirely different design problem/question

[@LNRDi]

Also: I'm very frustrated about the voice chat topic as well, because that chatter does seem to be coming to the argument in bad faith. But I think there are actually sensible answers to the things that August is saying to respond to the pro-VC position that come from a place of wanting the game to be less toxic. But that conversation inherently puts a higher burden on Riot to aggressively moderate voice chat (because he's right that it's "more difficult" to moderate but that's because an actual person has to listen to the recording, not because we can't understand what's being said) and that mass banning the toxic players (on first offense) would result in a culling of the playerbase that Riot can't afford.

[@rkjj.]

Oh no youve amready veen called bad things in an online game trutly not a solution:((

[@Plight_]

I just got chat restricted for a week. "Mf is mind broken" "F*** me harder" The mf spammed ffs after i died two times and ran it down mid. Feeding the talon and losing us the game

[@eujacks7888]

but the iconic "Faker what was that?" came from Faker playing ZED. Why not assassins on e-sports, so? What if they just KNOW that assassins is bully champs to any mage, that ironically is the most present class on the mid lane e-sports. We all know that Riot just block some things on e-sports. 0:50 AND HE TOLD EXACLY WHAT I MEAN. Wow Riot, i swear that assassins is not that strong that could turn the competitive place, a NOT COMPETITIVE place because assassins is not fair. WOW

[@HowIsZedSoEasy]

I mean a guy said that already in the comments, but assassins are countered by teamplay. 1) If you lock in Zed into Syndra in pro, yes, you could get a solokill, but Syndra value in a teamfight is just superior 2) Assassins aren't even THAT FREE into mages, in pro they would just get camped every time they try to go for an aggressive play 3) Mages would bully the shit out of you pre lvl 3, this means assassins have to use tp extremely early, and tp advantage is op in pro play

[@kf532]

When assassins are designed to primarily take advantage of mistakes and gaps in team play if they were to be good in the exact situation they aren't designed to be good in there is a massive problem somewhere in there.

[@eujacks7888]

@@kf532 oh yeah yeah. Zed being a MELEE assassin that can bully you as a MAGE RANGED and take almost 50% of your life in one lv3 combo is really my mistake, not his design make him able to act like a ranged assassin :). the "faker what was that" moment is iconic just because the phrase, not because the MOMENT that resulted in that phrase, right? the Rioter himself is saying that assassins ARE STRONG, c'mon...

[@monstermilk6092]

@@eujacks7888 The moment you were talking about took place in Season 3, when the game had shit like Deathfire Grasp, old Poppy, old Sion, and about half as many champions. The game was far worse balanced champion and systems wise, and also the LCK had some crazy rules back in the day, like the fifth game of five was done with purely blind pick, hence why both players were on Zed in the first place. Cherry picking an over decade old moment and saying "League should be like this because iconic" is losing the forest through the trees because you literally cannot compare old and modern league. Assassins have been phased out of pro play in modern league because they're not ungodly levels of unfair as well as there being far more better, safer, and more efficient options to pick. But you're also clearly a Zed apologist, so to TLDR for you: Old LoL is not modern LoL. Comparing them is stupid.

[@eujacks7888]

@@monstermilk6092 IMMA SERAPHINE OTP, i did NEVER play Zed lmao. So if that was the old league, tell me WHY these newest champs come to league completally BROKEN in terms of DAMAGE (ZED) and MOBILITY (ZED) and so many DASHS (ZED, hello again :) ). Tell me why so many champs with Zed's signature are being released, one after the other. It's a modern League, right? but zed is of the OLD league. tell me, pls

[@doriangray8032]

It's not win or lose it's about subduing your team to you and your style of play... I don't care if we win when I can't play coz of feeding from one moron. It's like, you hold on I'll just push top who cares if I die million times. There are games you lose but they were good from both sides and you are not even mad

[@homyachock]

Should I cry the same if my team is weaksiding me the whole laning phase? Cause it's for sure not fun. Now I can call my jg "moron" cause he is camping bot instead of pleasing my big ego? So, no, the only thing that matter IS win or lose.

[@shibaraccoon8740]

@@homyachock it’s fifty fifty. A real lane main should understand what a jungler is doing and why, bot is inherently more important because that’s support which gets vision control and ADC which is your primary back line dps, Ontop of being able to stack drakes. Will they mess it up, sure, but if you cannot read macro as a laner and you get mad at the jungler that’s not his fault. For instance I’m playing Diana jungle lately and this fiora was shoving too far and aggressively on low hp because she was winking the trades, but we were up against a Warwick. My identity as Diana is to power farm and beat the shit out of people with my gold lead, taking a coin flip top is a BAD BAD idea early. I pinged her warning her and like clockwork 5 seconds later I saw a nyooming Warwick. We all know what happened but then she started getting mad at me. “Didn’t you see the pings” “why aren’t you here”. She fed into him about 3 times minimum the same way, where I pinged her and she ignored it and died. Plenty of times I see a laner just not understand what their job is and why they do poorly and they instantly ping me and blame me. You have to understand your role as a laner, mid doesn’t want to roam to bit near topside obj spawning, bot shouldn’t be fucking up the recalling when drake is on the map, top lane needs to understand how to pressure map properly, support needs to understand how important vision is and to be looking out for clearing and placing it.

[@HolyAvgr]

I usually feel like his answers are pretty spot on, but his impression on voice chat are NOTHING like me and people I know experiences are (to be fair, both his and mine seem pretty biased). Only caveat is that some of the women I know do have to deal with a more cringe demographic, but all in all, I so rarely hear people talk shit. Now TEXT chat, though? Now that's the Universal Migger Transport Protocol. And that's on a chill day. People will NOT catch a break on text chat. My theory is that VC is team only, while text chat has /all. But what do I know.

[@SirBackPack]

Voice chat should be in League of Legends. At least in ranked League of Legends. If you want to keep every other mode text only then fine. But ranked should be voice and there is no argument I’m hearing against it. I’m a black man and have been called the N word over voice and I still think it should be in ranked. If you play ranked then you’ve experienced toxicity before so yes you can mute them when you hear people starting to be toxic. I’m not saying take text chat away. The person that doesn’t want to be in voice can just text chat to communicate if they would like. Denying people from voice chat because a minority of people MAY experience toxicity from a minority of players is over cautious. Unless riot thinks the majority of their own players are sexist and racist then they should just say that. I’m inclined to believe that most players aren’t racist or sexist. Voice chat should be added and there’s no logical excuse it’s not added

[@tupacshakur5868]

Arugment: competetive disadvantage. A shitload of people dont want to be in voice chat for league, why force them. If you want to play with voicechat play flex.

[@kf532]

​@@tupacshakur5868I mean competitively league somehow has one of the worst systems to communicate with your team which makes any kind of team play a dice roll on whether you are on the same page. Even fucking SMITE has better ways to communicate plays and shotcall only problem was the fluff they added but that can easily be removed. The game needs SOMETHING to lessen misunderstandings at the very least.

[@Stedman75]

Pekin is❤❤❤

[@klinckster]

Trash talk is in-bedded into games, riot forcing it to go away with harsh penalties. Riot is just turning the game into a don't type to each other environment.

[@kerph]

no it's not. it's not your right to play a free-to-play game. if you are toxic and repeatedly break the rules the game sets for communication that you agree to when you create an account, you deserve to not play the game anymore

[@klinckster]

@@kerph zoomer perspectives do not count

[@kerph]

@@klincksterokay 👍 enjoy your dying game i guess

[@shibaraccoon8740]

@@kerph at the same time though you can mute all, which cuts out all pings and messages, event emotes, as well as go to party chat only in settings to avoid taking if your really worried about people ragging on you. Should people be toxic? No, but it’s going to happen, punishing them just artificially lowers the numbers and people will soft int instead, which means they will give up and stop trying to play. Soft inting is really hard to detect via automated systems so it basically CANNOT be punished.

[@kerph]

@@shibaraccoon8740 sure, ignoring the downsides of having no pings or chat, you can mute all and avoid abuse, until someone adds you at the end of a game to call you slurs and threaten your life over a match of league anyways, i dont personally care if i get flamed, i have chat on, i just think it's *crazy* to think you should be entitled to abusing other players, like op, or that it's somehow intrinsic to online gaming. it is not, lol

[@mrboard4153]

Crazy to think voice chat would increase toxicity. Imagine if august could only type to us instead of talk to us. "I find it much easier to make friends on valorant than league... and easier to communicate with" - Riot Augest

[@animeanime7849]

It is easier to communicate which also makes it easier to be toxic. That’s kind of how that works

[@mrboard4153]

@animeanime7849 in this clip August is not saying voice chat is a zero-sum-game, what he's claiming it there are net negitive returns on toxicity in the context of voice chat all while giving anecdotal examples of how voice communication has allowed him to make more friends. So if the ultimate question is, is it worth it to add vc knowing we might potentially get negitive returns, then arguing for voice comes with the option to disable is difficult to argue against.

[@sylent0253]

my guy , come to europe , everybody is cursing at people every 2nd sentence wtf do u mean its not ok xD the entire world is doing it

[@animeanime7849]

There are assholes all around the world that doesn’t mean we should all be dicks to each other

[@Ggirtam]

It's not a terrible take, August. Just mute is true.

[@shibaraccoon8740]

Fifty fifty, both sides have valid points, but I think the big thing he mentioned, was at the end of that, saying it’s very hard to moderate. That alone is probably the sole reason it’s not in the game.

[@animeanime7849]

Because by the time you mute you have already had someone yell slurs in your ear and you are probably already tilted. Muting may stop the bleeding but not having voice at all stops the cut from happening in the first place.

[@Ggirtam]

@@shibaraccoon8740 Riot has to have near total control in everything they do.

[@Ggirtam]

@@animeanime7849 "Stopping the bleeding" is all you need. It gives you the time to get over the tilt.

[@jpaul3786]

This guy actually has brainrot but still thinks he's so smart for some reason

[@animeanime7849]

You seem like a smart guy please give us your expert analysis

[@jpaul3786]

@@animeanime7849 he describes a world that can never even happen. Like how he talks about "you cant just mute people cause they've already said things too you" tons of people in other competitive games dont use voice chat in the first place. I understand what he is talking about when people get their feelings hurt I genuinely do. But the thing is just because a few people cant take it doesnt mean they should be able to prevent so many other people from using voice chat.

[@thomasmitchell7815]

You can tell he works for riot because he tries to use word magic to gaslight people into maybe believing what they're seeing every night, every couple of games isn't really happening and instead is all in their heads. The game is full of trolls inters and griefers. Not all of them are doing it out of anger and frustration and broadcasting it as a middle finger but there is a ton of soft inting and 4fun troll behavior. If you wanted your game to be a serious competitive esport then you should be banning players who have been bronze 2 for the past decade who thinks it's acceptable to first time lock in shaco top or twitch jungle. If I was playing pick up basketball at my local gym and started chucking up full court shots for no reason just because I thought it would be cool they wouldn't let me play anymore. Meanwhile we allow "patterns of behavior" where players are allowed to go into what's supposed to be a serious competitive game mode and run it down, coin flip random all ins, and just generally troll out of boredom or frustration. If you were serious about your game being competitive you would ban these players at least from serious game modes. Just because someone isn't rage inting it down mid doesn't mean they aren't inting and there is an obvious difference between a player in the learning process and a player who doesn't care or is playing for ego or any other ridiculous factor that we all understand as soft inting. It's not a false positive, your game is full to the brim with clown behavior from the same people and it goes on for years sometimes 10 or more. The players don't improve ever because they have no incentive because no one holds them accountable. Your more apt to ban someone holding them accountable for cyber bullying or some other such brain rot nonsense then the guy who's been averaging 10 deaths a game for 5 years straight. And no I'm not talking about toxic people using racial slurs or crossing those lines. You can't even call a moron a moron without rito getting mad but you'll let that moron play like a moron for 7 consecutive seasons ruining the game for everyone else