Managing Shared Coordinates in Revit!

This video tackles Shared Coordinates in Autodesk Revit - a rather scary beast of a topic to most Revit users. The first half of the video is a summary of how to manage shared coordinates on a project, whilst the latter is a live demonstration of how to establish a shared coordinate system on a multi-disciplinary Revit project with multiple models.
I hope you enjoy the session and learn something new! Feel free to comment any feedback/questions below, or follow my channel if you enjoyed this.
Software used;
Autodesk Revit 2019: www.autodesk.com/products/rev...
Google Remote Desktop: chrome.google.com/webstore/de...
Flashback Express: www.flashbackrecorder.com/exp...
Hardware used;
Webcam: support.logitech.com/en_us/pr...
Laptop: laptopmedia.com/laptop-specs/...
Microphone: www.rode.com/microphones/nt-usb
Music: www.purple-planet.com

[@sei2642]

I have been trying to figure this out for about the last 10 years! These two videos helped me a lot, and they bring up a lot of the actual issues you run into when coordinating models in the real world, like not having all the info at the beginning of the project, uncoordinated consultants, mistakes, etc. Great video, thank you!

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Glad this was helpful!

[@czh998]

This video and the "Aligning Revit models to DWG Surveys" cleared up a lot of confusions about coordination systems and showed best practice and trouble shooting for correct project setup , they are the best videos. Thanks Gavin.

[@AussieBIMGuru]

You're welcome, glad they helped navigate these challenging topics!

[@Daniel-cp3jw]

Thanks for sharing this and all the other great in detail Tuts pal, they are incredibly useful for anyone with a serious passionate interest having a solid understanding of the software.

[@AussieBIMGuru]

You're welcome Dan! Glad you found them useful.

[@ThanhNguyen-bu8xp]

That's brilliant, much clearer for me now. thank you for sharing this mate!

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Great to hear!

[@User_2026_]

Legendary video,, typical of yours man! really thanks

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Cheerss!

[@mountainmystic1]

Thank you very much for this video. Agreed, i was in the scared boat, until watching this video. It was quick, to the point, and very well done. Even with a little comic relief which made it more approachable. Subscribed to your channel after watching this video. Cheers!

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Glad to hear the video was helpful! Comic relief is always a must for dealing with a nightmarish topic like this one - it still trips me up from time to time to this day.

[@chetaksinha]

superb explanation and demonstration

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Thanks!

[@taylorwatt3073]

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! It really made thinks a lot of sense and cleared a lot of things up! So thank you so much!!

[@AussieBIMGuru]

You're most welcome! Glad to help people navigate this tricky topic.

[@ranjankumar-du7lv]

Thanks bro.. Its very helpful

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Happy to help

[@danielkrajnik3817]

I enjoy

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Glad to hear!

[@immi85]

Supper explain 👍

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Thanks Immi! Good to see you're catching up on some of my older vids.

[@immi85]

@@AussieBIMGuru 😄

[@iumepock]

Great tutorial! Many thanks. Just to be sure: once my architectural model is set, an MEP or Structural modeler can use my model's coordinate system to acquire the shared coordinates, correct?

[@AussieBIMGuru]

They sure can! Note that they will then have a direct relationship to your model coordinates then though, so its important you don't change them after that (or communicate with everyone if you need to).

[@oscarramosmartinez3824]

Thank out very much for the video, when you have multiple buildings in a project, would you recommend to set a different location (sites) for each of them?

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Not usually. I am more used to having a site model and sharing each buildings' coordinates to that specific file. If the same building is placed a few times on the site then multiple locations could be used in this case for separate linked instances, although in reality buildings are rarely actually identical.

[@kasperkorea]

Your Taskbar is fascinating

[@AussieBIMGuru]

I'm a sucker for custom icons!

[@kasperkorea]

Custom icons does the trick for me too!

[@augustinpeytchinov4470]

Awesome video! Thanks! Question: not sure how you could model a building without first having a survey… you would have to design/position your building according to zoning restrictions. Accordingly, it appears that the site model and the architectural model MUST be done together FIRST and THEN you can establish shared coordinates- no? Also, how does this work with the BIM 360 workflow?

[@AussieBIMGuru]

You can use high level data sources like GIS and publically available cadastre information, but generally without a survey a confident existing condition cannot be ascertained. If by the time coordinates need to be established there is still no survey, there are issues on the job to be solved beyond BIM there. On BIM360 you can acquire coordinates from models but not publish them if I recall correctly. If coordinates need to be reset I believe this is only manageable if the model is downloaded first

[@gabrielepiacentini9277]

Technically speaking it's all good and very clear. However, I think there is a problem related to scope of work / responsibilities. The process explained in the video shows the BIM Manager taking total control of the models (site, architectural, structural, etc.), getting to the point where he/she changes the coordinates of those models and save them back through the linked files, updating their position. I don't think this is what should be done. In reality, what the lead consultant (or BIM Manager) does is create the site (masterplan) model, which contains the right coordinates (X, Y, Z) and share it to the whole design team (architects, structural engineers, MEP engineers, etc.). Each BIM / Revit model manager within the respective discipline teams will then need to link the site model to their model and acquire the coordinates from it. This is what I've always done in order not to take responsibility of modifying someone else's model.

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Thanks Gabriele, right you are. Obviously I don't have a pretend BIM manager of each company to demonstrate with, but a control model like this is the best way. I actually mention this at 7:10 as the best option too.

[@gabrielepiacentini9277]

@@AussieBIMGuru Yes, it really is the best way in the case you do everything 'in-house', so you keep control of all models within the same company. Otherwise what I've described in the comment above is the right way to go. And yes, what you mention at 7:10 kind of summarizes the story. It is important to stress the point about roles and responsibilities though. Cheers

[@javierperezmarin4121]

Amazing as always Gavin!! I was able to understand this difficult topic but, in case we don't have the survey file and we only have the google maps coordinates to locate the project (roughly) in the real world, would you just move the survey point with the coordinates eg. 13.7173° N, 100.5152° E, and move the project based point where it suits me best? How do you convert google maps coordinates to suit N/S and E/W parameters? How would you approach this? Thank you!

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Hi Javier, long time! To be honest all that matters before a survey is the north rotation really. I wouldn't take responsibility for geolocation unless a surveyor is on board and can take a survey relative to a national datum.

[@javierperezmarin4121]

@@AussieBIMGuru Long time yes!! Happy to see you're always there to light our way with your videos.hahaha. So in that case, would be better to keep the survey point and project based point as a default so the MEP & Structure consultants will work with the same default project and survey point right? Thank you very much for your work mate

[@AussieBIMGuru]

@@javierperezmarin4121 yes if possible have everyone work from a common pbp/sp and a common project north (true north rotation). Once a survey is received and approved establish a site/container file and get the coordinates right in there, and mark some key grid intersections for alignment. From here you can send this to others to acquire as shared coordinates. This is important to do before uploading to BIM360 as the publish coordinates feature is not available there.

[@javierperezmarin4121]

@@AussieBIMGuru Thank you!!!

[@xiaomi9865]

If one of the colleague rotate the project north in the service model, will it get back the same coordinate when we link in to the site model and publish the coordinate.

[@AussieBIMGuru]

If you want to get the coordinates back to original then ideally the true coordinates should be stored in the site/control model. You can position the link and from there acquire the coordinates from the site, or if you are in the site model you can publish them back to the building. If I recall correctly, project north rotation is independent of the site coordinate settings however, so you may need to manually adjust this by rotating to a parallel reference from the site model as well if the coordinates weren't changed.

[@zarnibo8602]

Hi, Thanks for sharing video, May I know we still need to do shared coordinates if we have the same boundary line, model, internal origin, project based point and survey point?

[@AussieBIMGuru]

No you could just work with the same settings if you really wanted to, but it any changes would need to be manually coordinated across all teams without shared coordinates.

[@zarnibo8602]

thank you :)

[@vivt7123]

If the arch did not set the coordinate can mep link to the site and publish the coordinate? What if mep have one host model that link to the base model. Which model should we use for the link to publish? Thk u

[@AussieBIMGuru]

It really depends on who owns the site model, and where it is stored. If MEP is using a container model for all disciplines, ideally this as well as the linked models to it should borrow their coordinates from a common file (site or control model). In my experience the architect owns this model (because usually grids/levels are controlled here as well for copy monitoring), but if the job is heavily services focused then you could possibly coordinate different arrangements with the project architect. The coordinates should ultimately be dictated by the survey first (if there is no survey then hassle your client/project manager - it is not insurable to work this way!).

[@vivt7123]

@@AussieBIMGuru noted. Thk u

[@M1n2kas]

Very good material. Thank you! I watched it and hoped to get my problem solved. Unfortunately. It seems like shared coordinates works well, because I'm able to link architectural model to my MEP one and they aligns perfectly. The problem appears when I try to export my 3D model to IFC by shared coordinates. After a first attempt, I opened both architectural and MEP models in IFC viewer and my IFC file appeared to be too low like 100 meters than architectural model. After second attempt, I ticked ifcSite elevation option, but the results were incorrect again: my IFC file appeared exactly 11050 mm higher where it suppose to be.

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Hrm hard to say the cause but maybe a units issue with the ifc elevation property? If i recall correcly, by default ifc export assumes internal origin is RL 0, so I tend to work that way where possible, although not usually practical to do so if levels change. Might need to ask the buildingsmart forums for the recommended approach.

[@M1n2kas]

@@AussieBIMGuru I did some research: opened a fresh project, linked both architectural and MEP model using origin to origin option. My model appeared way too low architectural one. I measured the distance between these two and I found out that it is exactly the same discrepancy when I export MEP model by shared coordinates not including ifcSite elevation and open it up together with architectural one in IFC viewer. Still looking for a way out how to get this fixed.

[@christiantouloum3441]

@@M1n2kas Just update your IFC plugin in Revit, and this should fix your issue of the Z elevation. @Aussie BIM Guru Great presentation Gavin. Thank you

[@cathychoi6959]

just remember after all the links shared coordinates, if you change the position need to re-save the file as the coordinates were modified. otherwise, they all just links should behave the same way

[@vibhavarypatibandla4828]

So complex!

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Yep shared coordinates sure is!

[@vibhavarypatibandla4828]

@@AussieBIMGuru you explained it so well..thanks!

[@pratyushgolchha8941]

How can I do the same for files that repeated. like 3 instances of Arch Villa in Site Model? Also is it possible to do in BIM360 link?

[@AussieBIMGuru]

I believe the only way to do that would be to manually set up three sites into the model. Generally I don't recommend linking instances of models for different buildings for that and other reasons. Bim360 can only acquire coordonates vs publish I believe.

[@bulkarchitects635]

Sir make video on site modelling as per plot coordinates.

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Generally I don't get too involved in detailed site modelling, but this tutorial by revit pure might be of interest: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnOVoamcq7ytndE I have a tutorial here showing how to align to a surveyed site if that helps too: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5CpZ4yInL5pl6s

[@fukuda6025]

Is it possible to make this procedures linking ifc models? Not modelled in revit.

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Not easily. You would need to modify the site properties in the Ifc file itself, using an editor that can handle it. This method is in Revit, for Revit models. See here for the suggested methods of some Ifc experts i trust the opinions of more than my own; forums.buildingsmart.org/t/tools-to-move-ifc-geometry-from-global-coordinates-to-local/2534

[@anandjain6779]

So you mean I Have to first Coordinate the Site model with Survey Cad file as you told in previous lesson . Am i right boss ??

[@AussieBIMGuru]

You got it! 2 parts to the workflow, one to set it up and the rest to acquire.

[@JavierOropeza08]

Thanks as usual. This video answered a lot of questions I had about starting a new project. I am going to be working with t MEP and structural on BIM Collaborate Pro, I have never used worksets on a project before, let alone with Cloud stuff...and usually the engineers use CAD, so lots of potential failure points I am trying to overcome and get ahead of. Where I do work, we usually start with the survey, so by the time structural and MEP would get my model, I potentially already could have shared coordinates set up on a site model. What would the workflow be for structural or MEP if I, as arch, already set up my site model and pushed shared coordinates to my arch model? Do I still need to send Structural and MEP the arch model and the site model, for them to set up the shared coordinates? Or can they just take that/pull that form the arch model? I guess I am trying to see if there is any real reason in sending structural or MEP the site model, unless I have to that is for shared coordinates reasons.

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Yes usually the architect will align to survey first and hence 'own the process' of managing how each other consultant aligns. In my experience for a large scale job with multiple parties working in BIM, the site model is the best way to manage all coordinates in models via shared coordinates and copy monitoring of levels and grids. I suggest that even the architect shares their coordinates with their own site model. This way if the building must be relocated, this can be done by moving it in the site model as a linked file, publishing the coordinates, and realigning the copy monitoring grids in the site model. The site model can then be sent back to other parties, and they can move their model to align with the grids, then acquire the coordinates again. In this process, the site model does not need to change (just the grids in it), and this keeps the process much simpler. Each model should have a live set of grids and levels, copy monitored to the site model's version.

[@damirces]

I will try this trick on small scale project. In Germany one arch. model has more then 30 levels and more, depending on stories. I can't imagine copy monitoring all of them...

[@iftekharkhan8879]

What happen if the site change i.e site rotate or n/s change ??

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Then you must update the main site all files are shared from and then the other models should pick up the change. Worse comes to worse, update one and the rest reacquire again.

[@aethelwolfe3539]

What do we do when the DWG surveys are super far away from zero zero zero?

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Usually I move the information in AutoCAD first to be near the origin in that scenario, then use the ID command in AutoCAD to get a coordinate to specify in Revit.

[@ofw-ako]

Does this affect the annotations made?

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Annotations will always be relative to the internal system so wont move when coordinates are changed.

[@user-ef5tl8bh8b]

But what we do with the survey?

[@AussieBIMGuru]

I recommend against acquiring the survey or aiming to align internal origins to autocad to revit extents issues. I have a video on managing surveys here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5CpZ4yInL5pl6sfeature=shared

[@ArchiTech-fq4xe]

This is always not a good practice using sahred coordinated dueing design phase

[@AussieBIMGuru]

Agree - it's all about coordination and communication and working together at the right time

[@iftekharkhan8879]

I m having one problem sir with my site plan...can u plz send me.ur mail id ...i will send cadd nd revit file ... actually what is happeng i have a cadd site plan .i want to link cadd file into revit when i link and set the revit file same as cadd file cordinate ..i set to 0,0 and set back in revit file as same as cadd site ..but what happens as soon as I rotate my true north ..my survey point position change ..don't know why ...before change the true north it's set 0,0 that's fine but when i cahnge to true north all change and set back also not match??

[@AussieBIMGuru]

I'm happy to give tips but I don't have time to do these types of tasks typically for other people - ideally your BIM manager or project leader should be responsible for this type of thing. My email is on my channel home page.

[@iftekharkhan8879]

@@AussieBIMGuru sir plz sir

[@AussieBIMGuru]

@@iftekharkhan8879 do you have a BIM manager or project leader? Please understand I have my own time and job to manage also - if they can help you before I do that is ideal. I have provided you a means of emailing me.

[@iftekharkhan8879]

@@AussieBIMGuru sir i m learning ,i m not working in any company.ok no problem...