Author Susan Neiman on Germans/Holocaust vs. America/slavery - Germans Win (August 16, 2020)

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Author Susan Neiman contrasts how Germans have come to terms with The Third Reich and how Americans have processed slavery, the Civil War, Jim Crow, lynching, and systemic racism.

[@briancattani5109]

I am white man and was raised in the 50s and 60s in Los Angeles and by the time I was in my 20s I married an Iranian and wanted to move to Iran but of course things went to shit there. We eventually divorced and I married an asian woman and shortly after happily moved to asia . Why was i so anxious to leave the states. The history of who americans are! White racism, world dominance, corrupt monetary policies, lack of good education and healthcare, outsourcing all of our labor and not standing up for the working class, guns and terrible policing, corruption in politics, and on and on and on. Long before trump came along I had been disgusted by the country. Disgusted with the leaders and the voters more than the leaders. A news media that discussed nonsense day and night. I found a way out but I have sympathy for those who can't. I fear that a new bloody civil war is on it's way in the US.

[@denag2415]

I think what helped Germany is that they were able to have the trials that held people accountable.

[@dasmaurerle4347]

I disagree. The majority of Nazi establishment got away with their heinous behaviour. I'm talking about lawyers, judges, professors and other academics. That gave the impression to the working class Germans (the vast majority), that only the 'little' man was being punished. It made the war generation oppose to reflect on the past and it took more than 20 years and the next generation to ask the right question. And of course none of the Nazi establishment had any interest in looking deeper into their past. So, no. The trials didn't do shit...

[@betsyherman8872]

I love your podcast. It makes me feel like I have a friend in the world.

[@sunnylilme]

I'm in deep Louisiana..hating everything trump does in trump country. I have to be closeted liberal down here. I get not feeling alone listening to him.

[@gingernell]

Excellent interview!

[@kentrussell8564]

I believe that our country has forgotten our initial credence of acceptance. This is supposed to be the country of diversity and individualism and yet we persecute anyone of difference. Why have we become so divided when we have been so diverse for so long? If you aren't an American Indian, you are also an immigrant. Racists should grapple that notion before telling anyone else to go home or lay claim to this pseudo 'Great Nation'. We are a nation of 1 with no color or given supremacy. Get used to it or find an inclusive society elsewhere so we as Americans know who to go to war with next. Come at me bro

[@maryroseart]

THANK YOU Al, love you and thank you Susan Neiman!!!!!

[@bobapbob5812]

The film "Holocaust" came out the same time as "Roots" and was shown on German tv. I saw it, in German, which made it for some reason more intense. Angela Merkel as portrayed in SNL said "you call them alt right. We just say it is why grandpa had to move to Argentina."

[@bobapbob5812]

@L Cincinnatus Nothing you are saying is any different from comments on the Jews by "you know who"

[@jngmail]

It would be wonderful to be able to teach the younger generation about whites in the south who opposed lynching. A memorial like you see in Yad Vashem in The Walk of the Righteous would be so appropriate. My mother’s family(Greek Jewish) was saved by several Christian families/women. It was one of my moms happiest moments when she was able to reconnect with the granddaughter of one of the women. Eventually with her and her sisters testimony both women were honored at Yad Vashem. Fittingly, one of their names was Zoe, which mean Life, in Greek.

[@Northstarunlimited56]

Al you are a gem!!! Susan Neiman is one smart cookie. Once again the Cheeto Czar ad came on during your podcast. I don't want to sound paranoid but I'm getting to the point I think someone at You Tube is intentionally inserting them during your pod cast!!

[@joycesnodgrass7068]

Al, thank you💛

[@terr777]

Yeah, Jim Jones had the same quote behind him right before the massacre.

[@LeCanalBarbaraAnne]

Oh Al, why didn't you force them to give you due process, and tell Chuck Schumer to go to hell.

[@Northstarunlimited56]

The biggest witch hunt was actually started and really stirred up by witch Kristen Gillibrand!!!!

[@lauracohen4914]

Thank you for this interview, love it, love Ms. Neiman and look forward to reading her work.

[@madincraft4418]

It's not an elegy for a lost cause, it's how the Confederacy destroyed the south. Indigo Girls have an excellent song on the same subject called Become You

[@tedbagg2825]

@L Cincinnatus The confederacy was trying to save slavery, which its leaders explicitly identified as the South's "cornerstone". Pierce Butler's threat of secession, delivered in the debate years before the start of the 19th century over the first act of Congress regarding tariffs, is the germ of the Civil War. But the reason for these tariffs is the same : Slavery.

[@johnsmith9903]

i LOVE this ladies perspective. so right.Started up in 08 though

[@karenjones1897]

thanks, al! sid caesar - such a talent. i'm old so i remember so many of the early tv comedians. this was an excellent podcast, btw.

[@NewMessage]

I really think he means it this time! But I've been burned before...

[@karenjones1897]

lol

[@TheKCBBQ]

Back in the 80's a Professor Mosse told me "you should write a book on Myth" it seems this woman has done this job for me. Thank you

[@klynnim1123]

Lol...how did WE get here. It is amazing.

[@TheSuzberry]

Good show. This has been fun.

[@BlueBaron3339]

Woody Allen also wrote for Sid Caesar, hence Al's pause when recounting the list of writers....you could almost hear him thinking...uh...maybe I should end the list now 😅 😂

[@caterinagracile7367]

I think it comes down to being honest with ourselves, accepting reality, it's flaws, and wanting to change things for the better for ourselves and our children. Knowing there is an issue is half the battle. But with the current racial discord there is a strong push, from some people, that there is nothing wrong! That's the problem and the frustration! How do you get people to come to the conclusion that there is something wrong, and it needs to be fixed, and not ignored?

[@bowerydoll]

I am 53 years old, Black and Indigenous, and I appreciated this conversation. I'm exhausted from a couple arguments with people who cling to the belief that the civil war was not about race or chattel slavery. I like what she had to say, but I cringed when she spoke praise about Kant. Maybe she doesn't know, but Kant was a very racist philosopher. He believed that Black people were meant to be slaves and Indigenous people were lazy and could not be educated. There is so much history that needs to be brought out of the shadows. There's still a lot of work to do.

[@Kenny-re8ko]

@11:00...given her activism, I often wondered why Joan Baez covered that song...has anybody ever asked her to explain?

[@Ahmedkhan8802]

The problem of race is and always has been pervasive throughout the U.S., in every state and every county. In my freshman year of college in the early 1960's, an engineering graduate student from Nigeria told a group of us white students, "You can't tell me that the North is better than the South or that any one part of the country is different from the other. When it comes to race, America is America." This was an "aha" moment for me. If there was one thing that the civil rights workers and leaders and the Southern segregationists had in common, it was disdain for the mealy-mouthed hypocrisy of the North.

[@DrNothing23]

Hey Al! Long time fan (I'm 54) and first time caller. I'm a custodian at the University of Oregon in Eugene and have been on 'furlough' ever since Spring Break didn't end. That said, the end of the furlough was just recently moved from the end of August to the end of October, next steps TBD as the situation evolves (...'devolves'?...) I'm also a videography hobbyist... in other words I took RTVF at University and did nothing with it. lol. With this news, I've decided to spend less time on NetFlix and PornHub and instead pursue more creative ends. Inspired by a recent rewatch of Denis Leary's performance at last cycle's DNC, I made a video to the original version of "Asshole" using flotsam and jetsam footage of Trump from the webs. My first project in about a decade and I was quite pleasantly surprised at the outcome. Like riding a bike, I guess. I'm trying to share with folks who would appreciate it and your notification for this popped up so I figured I'd share with you here. Keep up the good fight! ;) kzbin.info/www/bejne/pIGbiJuAfd1losk

[@montygates8767]

Very entertaining

[@madincraft4418]

You have the best light on your podcast

[@cubangal1]

"the same as having a hitler statue"......Al Franken

[@alistairmackintosh9412]

They need a big statue of general Sherman outside the Georgia statehouse. Holding a torch.

[@bobapbob5812]

How racist am I? Get a copy of the musical ""Avenue Q" which has a number called "Everyone's a little bit racist" sung by a black cast member. Also the movie "Gentlemen's Agreement". It's about anti semitism but applies to all discremination.

[@daveybaby8389]

Al... love ya; Susan... you too :) (i can do that cause i'm crazy) but listening to Joan's words in the song... perhaps it's not about glorifying the lost cause but rather what's left when the cause is lost? the losers are always defiant, after you pick em up, dust em off, and feed em, germany et, al. but also they must live in the ruins of a cause. what else but folk music can address the emotion (logic be damned) of such shame? :)

[@sjw5797]

It's an anti-war song. It was written by Robbie Robertson of The Band while the U.S. was losing the war in Viet Nam, just as the Confederacy had lost the Civil War.

[@daveybaby8389]

@@sjw5797 it's amazing how the People stopped vietnam (war) as a People that had some 100 years previous been at each other's throats, that generation's grandfathers fought that war. as time goes by those personal connections die out, and it becomes more abstract. but there's something in Joan's song here, i don't find evil.

[@FakingANerve]

I love Al and far more often than not agree with him, but I can't agree with his proposal for Coca-Cola to threaten giving money to a politician's opponent in order to affect positive change. Corporations should NOT be giving money to political campaigns for ANY reason, even the altruistic ones. I thought he was going to recommend they threaten to pull their product from the state unless major issues like voter suppression were alleviated, which I think I would support, but haven't given it enough thought yet.

[@AMayer-se6gg]

Heavy. Well done. How are there so few views/subscribes. Ugh?!

[@journeyman378]

If y'all know the history so we'll, why do you not support Repairations?

[@tricivenola8164]

Yes, Joan Baez covered The Night They Drove Old Dixie down. Baez and songwriter Robbie Robertson are showing compassion for the vanquished. What's wrong with that? Virgil, the guy singing the song, clearly isn't a slave owner, just somebody who loves his farm and lost his brother and damn near everything else. The song shows a greater humanity than all this self-righteousness. You should have continued listening.

[@countdebleauchamp]

Al Franken kicks ass! So does Susan.

[@MultiYlin]

Who is here believes Al should run for senate again

[@denag2415]

I just heard that song from Joan B the other day and it was the first time I realized the words 😳.

[@brendabrass3725]

Great interview! Moral obligation to hope🤗

[@qwertyuiopgarth]

"Great one, for a change" is getting to be really old.

[@bobapbob5812]

I highly recommend to Ms Neiman to read the collection of WWII essays published by Der Spiegel available on Amazon. Great insights from a German point of view.

[@dmatos7706]

Great show, honest🤔

[@stanthogerson6714]

this is a podcast, not a audio tape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!get with the program!!!!!!!!

[@hayesdabney]

Sehr gut, Al. Wunderschön.!

[@johnlewis195]

Leave all the Statues .... Tell Our Grandchildren what they did...History is our story

[@alansilverman8500]

versus?

[@frankberger3507]

Corporations pressure government? Is that really a road that you think will end well? How many personal choices will become political statements? Too many things are weaponized already. I don't want to have to worry about who's looking in my grocery cart.

[@escope1959]

I just watched a cooking show and all the adds were for Joe Biden or Democratic. All the adds on your show are for trump

[@taoman85]

Ads are based on your interests. I've seen no 45 Ads.

[@escope1959]

@@taoman85 OK, good to here. I have checked out the other side to see what's going on. Maybe that's it

[@rambleron5720]

80% of the wealth in the midwest can be traced back to the Homestead act...

[@journeyman378]

It was not Tanahisi Coats, it was the ADOS movement! #ados

[@snowflakeca2079]

AL FRANKEN PLEASE RUN 3RD PARTY 2024 FRANKEN/ AOC FRANKEN/ YANG FRANKEN/ ROGAN BRING LEVITY, REALITY AND INTEGRITY BACK TO AMERICAN POLITICS!!! LOVE YOU MAN! (AND THAT'S NOT JUST BECAUSE YOU LOOK IDENTICAL TO MY FATHER) LYING LIARS... FUCKING BEST BOOK EVER WRITTEN...

[@carolciscel1666]

Is that an average or a median? Averages are deceiving because a very small percentage of white people have huge -- and I mean huge -- net worth and that skews things.

[@4551blue]

Immanuel Kant was prescient. Our species is dysfunctional.

[@Toxica9944]

Lmao Middle Brow!!!

[@denkerdunsmuir3370]

11:34 Dr. Nieman -- on your comment about Joan Baez' "civil rights creds." Where do I begin with that comment. Ok. First, love folk music of 50's and 60's, and musicians including Baez. I turned of majority 6 months after Dr. King died. I knew this song glorified what this country stands for as a 6 year old about to be thrust into being the first Black in my all white Catholic school. Disaster! Second, performing for an event may or may not actually reveal agreement with the values and concepts of the event. It might, but it does not necessarily mean more than a musician needs to perform and advertise their brand. Third, proximity to Blacks and to the Civil Rights movement does not mean anything other than proximity. It is the same as I do not become a car -- I can not be transformed into a car -- by standing in a garage. Refer to Robin DiAngelo (White Fragility). I am by no means suggesting. anything pro or con on the issue of racism or Ms. Baez. I do not know one way or another. It is just so frequently that people pose proximity as evidence, or worse, proof, they are not racist, and it actually is by no means a benchmark. You hear this defense in words like: My best friend is ... or I work out with ..., etc. Or my grandchild is Black (so I couldn't be racist). Very infrequently do you hear these days the words, My neighbor is Black (so I couldn't possibly be a racist.) But that is due to the intersectionality of wealth disparity and race that has left the country more segregated than ever in my lifetime. It's just not true that proximity dissolves racism! I am Black. My family except for my generation were all born and reared in the severely segregated South -- east and west Louisiana within 2 very insular, exclusionary, and I report, very racist sub-groups (Creole, and Catholic). I'll probably draw much critique for that observation, but this is my observation and belief about my color-struck family. Further, I have a very close relative who has denied their racial identity since WWII, and to support this "passing," this individual claimed membership in The John Birch Society -- the 20th century version, I suppose, of The Tea Party married to The Koch Bros. et al. (See Dark Money by Nancy McClean; Democracy in Chains by Meyers). Racist! Finally, everyone in and dealing with Americans gets tainted by the racist brush of our unresolved national cultural cancer which 2020 has brought top of mind. This is such a toxic, prevalent, unresolved and often still extremely difficult subject to discuss without precious and pissy white arrogance over how dare anyone -- especially a Black, and often particularly a Black woman -- call me out or up short; I'm superior and I will determine who gets to speak to me and what they can say. And that's one way not to change! Even within my family color, race and identity were not discussion topics. I have only tried over the past 10 years to talk with whites about this topic. And I have a very diverse, self-actualized, and urbane background with a fairly well-developed b.s. detector! But too few others have had nearly the professional training and personal interest in growing beyond the psychological immaturity racism represents. Even Bible affiliates struggle with this cancer. So, it's a process! It's not easy to admit racism without either being taught not to be racist (Search: Ms. Jane Elliott : Blue Eye - Brown Eye Exercise, KZbin), or learning on one's own -- it is my observation and belief it is virtually impossible not to be a racist and live in America and interact with Americans. As our schools and neighborhoods and income disparities increase, so does the inverse of opportunities for exposure among races and possible opportunities to learn and be taught not to be racist, or as Dr. Kendi (Stamped From the Beginning) describes, to be an anti-racist. According to Dr. DiAngelo, it is possible for a white person in America today to go their whole life including college and grad school without interaction with Blacks. Many whites report they have no Black contacts; no Black friends. My question to such individuals is: How then is it even possible for you to know whether you are racist or not? Overt white supremacist behavior is but one location on the racist continuum. There is the covert, hidden and in denial opposite part of that same measuring devise, and many stops in between. Individuals are too close to themselves to see clearly especially when the often do not know what to look at to find racism. The most ironic thing to me about racism and racist beliefs is that anyone can be so afflicted, and to be burdened with this cultural cancer is to be severely socially and emotionally limited when in this era only 8% of the world is white. It's only in America Blacks are 12% of the population. And it's not a long shot, but rather a very short put to say how an American views Blacks will likely be how they view other non-white groups. Blacks by and large have skills with dealing with whites that whites have not learned. Blacks grow up in and learn to navigate an often inflexible, deaf to Blacks' issues and needs, white bread world. We know you. Can you say the same of us? I think not! Time will tell if the rhetoric and protests after the police killings of Blacks in 2020 actually produce changes in policy and social justice, and structural changes that are codified in legal codes that bind changes. If change is to occur, I believe, Americans will have to put their presidential vote where more than half report their hearts are to defeat the current racist in charge posing as a president. If not, it is likely to be business as usual in the racist department going forward, and all the words of protestors will ring hallow; just empty rhetoric that filled bored, quarantined lives in early 2020. It's a very heavy lift! Race, and an autocratic narcissist; it's asking a lot. Americans aren't guilty often of introspection, but we do have a long history of common sense. So, to whom much is given, much is requested. We shall see! God, I'm praying -- Hear Me, Lord!

[@justgivemethetruth]

Al Franken - I just heard you speaking with Judy Woodruff on the Newshour. Pretty OK, but I think you missed a lot of the point. First, when you were talking about Joe Biden you kept talking about what a nice guy he is. OK, maybe he is, maybe he isn't. These canned commercials are always going to say that - so people just ignore it. Bush was a great guy to have a beer with - and look how that turned out. Honestly, I think if a President is competent he is going to be reasonably moral and come off like a nice guy. But, look at Trump. He is an asshole and people still voted for him - and that means they are looking for something else than the BS we get in the media - including from you. I don't care if Biden is a nice guy or Trump is an a-hole, I want someone to fix the problems we have and face the challenges. Then she asked you about the economy, and you made Trump's case. Good point about the stock market not being the economy - but the issue is - with $2 trillion dollars of tax cuts to invest the very rich and the corporations can make the stock market do whatever they want it to - it is a complete fiction. They can drive it up, get everyone to invest and the suck all the money out of it and repeat as often as they like thanks you suckers like you who do not tell Americans what is going on. You fucking idiot Democrats expect people to take you seriously on the racial question, but the way you phrase it and always go to people of color - like there are tons and tons of people of color watching the NewsHour. I highly doubt it. Talk about class, take about low-income people being treated fairly and then race as a subset of that and you guys will stop alienating white people like you do and driving them away or taking away any interest they have in voting. The issue to unite people is the ( hate to sound like a Marxist ) but class struggle. The Republicans are killing off poor people and people of color. When you make that about race you lose people. Those people they do not kill they will get by driving them into poverty crime and despair with no education or support. I did not realize Kamala Harris was one of the Democrats who called for your resignation. That was wrong, but at least she was not as outspoken and as much of a bitch as Kirsten Gellibrand. I hope you make a comeback, but you need to have a new message for Democrats, otherwise if the Democrats win and they do nothing, Trump will say I told you so and run again in 2024 and win.

[@tone616183]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States Only 305,326 slaves existed in America not something we should still be talking about when it really wasn't that many