Autistic Sense of Justice - What is it Really?

[@aaacomp1]

You're correct. We're always viewed as the difficult person to deal with. People mostly take the path of least resistance and don't even bother with us. I'm always questioning conventional thought and viewed as a troublemaker for it. Most people just want to take things at face value and move on. My condition won't allow me to do that. I always want to know why...the real why. Not the made up why that makes people feel better about themselves so they can just move onto other things.

[@MartinDlabaja]

exactly! that is why I am so obsessed with physics / astronomy etc, because it is not bullshi***ng around. It TRULY and HONESTLY asks WHY and tries to answer that without any confusing emotional ballast attach to it.

[@thexpax]

ask yourself first "why not"

[@sphesihleslingile6743]

I'm the same

[@jeffskarski6644]

Lies are gross

[@AJ_Battle]

as a autistic person I learnt in my 20s that how I see the world is not how others see it and therefore not to blindly trust my instincts which helped me become a lot more empathetic and humble. I think that taking on this position of learning to be okay with things even if I'm right or wrong or not sure has helped me be a better person.

[@oliviajayward]

I’m seen as likeable and i feel like people have babied me my whole life bc I’ve been diagnosed with autism since a younger age. It’s annoying bc whenever i try to form an opinion on something, people make out that I’m stupid but whenever somebody else has same opinion, their taken seriously. Probably why I’m seen as likeable because I’m good at masking to fit in and i smile at everyone but once ppl get to know me and my struggles, i feel like ppl are annoyed with me

[@thexpax]

nts are always annoyed👎at me too

[@ofpine]

i am so sorry that you aren't taken seriously. your knowledge and opinions matter

[@SamTheSilkie]

I think a sense of justice just means we get very passionate about our sense of what's right and wrong. It can be hard to move around that to get new perspectives on situations, and I think that's an important skill to learn how to do, but I think a lot of us are very proud of this part of ourselves. I feel like I've seen a lot more autistic folks stick to their guns when it comes to their morals compared to the average person. I think that's admirable.

[@thexpax]

Stick to our own morals --- our last bastion of autonomy; our being able to consider ourselves "not in the wrong?"

[@mdtisthebest6249]

It’s admirable until it’s not

[@thexpax]

@@mdtisthebest6249 I wonder, to be fair, is anything perfect for everyone?

[@brbrbrbreannad3610]

Maybe this trait would better described as “a strong sense of personal justice” or “a strong sense of subjective justice” to emphasize the subjectivity of any individual autistic person’s sense of right and wrong.

[@MariaJoseRozas]

This! Because not all times it's just. I like this perspective!

[@brianfoster4434]

The thing about the "news" is that they figured out how to keep you watching the same information over and over again. They play on emotions, which for some reason people like. They keep people glued to their broadcast with commercials every couple of minutes. The thing to remember is that they are doing this to make money - not inform the public.

[@Catlily5]

My boyfriend watches PBS at least that doesn't have all the commercials.

[@thexpax]

Absolutely! I recall when news truly informed. It has really lost its place, hasn't it?

[@Reed5016]

Agreed

[@thexpax]

@@Reed5016 t h a n k 🫥 y o u

[@slyvaughan5808]

For myself, I see it like this." I have a strong sense of right and wrong. I have a moral code that I live by." I also understand that others do not have my view. I learned that regardless of what is happening around me, I have no control of it and just stick to my code and behave in a way I see as right while ignoring other peoples behavior. I only react if it directly effects me because I cannot control the world.

[@thexpax]

Bang on👍buddy!

[@GlossyCandle]

I'm glad to see a video on this, as it is something that I have been struggling a lot with recently. I'm starting to realize that there is a distinction between justice and goodness. I like to try and hear out people and arguments that I disagree with, knowing that we both have our own ideas of what is good. What I find maddening is when there is no logical consistency to someone's worldview, they will just make arguments that might fit in that isolated moment, but contradict the other positions that they supposedly hold. This is where I think the distinction between justice and goodness lies, when someone just argues in favor of a worldview that they might not truly hold, with their arguments changing from moment to moment based on whatever will help them most at the time.

[@thexpax]

Real wafflers. Do they not have, do they actually not care, or do they really not trust, their own social sense of correctness?

[@olivierf2938]

I think "sense of justice" still works, being off the mark could be attributed to how morality isn't an objectively shared experience and how injustice is so unbearable to some that it becomes the exclusive focus and prevents from seeing the bigger picture. Totally off topic but that's such a cute cat !

[@thexpax]

Dana's cats are very healthy looking, no doubt 💚 very well cared for. Once my tabby cat "Tiger" used to love sleeping on his back in my arms. You can't really beat cats even dogs for people's best friends. "Sense of justice" surely is best kept a generic expression indeed.

[@sinopulence]

Rectitude, and "what is right"... that's what makes me tick. I have always been willing to change my view, based on empirical facts. Outside of that, i am extremely rigid.

[@thexpax]

Y e a h ! You've nailed the failing "sense of justice" dead to the wall with the pinpoint of one word 🙂. t h a n k y o u

[@SapphicSammy7]

I relate strongly to this, it was honestly shocking. Lately I've been rethinking how I live and think, and if it's right for me. Most of the time I come to the conclusion I am living authentically, but sometimes (like this) I find myself reconsidering the way I think. I know I'm over empathetic (if someone is mad/sad/happy around me I will begin to experience the same emotions) but Idk how I would explain my heightened sense of justice. I've tried to cut back arguing online because people rarely change their opinion during debates. (Side note: I'm new here and also new late diagnosed gal, I'm loving the channel due to how much I relate, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences 💜)

[@Catlily5]

Arguing online is not to change the person you are arguing with but to influence the people who read the argument later. At least that is how I see it.

[@thexpax]

Yes, I'm new here too and so happy 💌 to have discovered Dana. All the 💞 best to you.

[@trollsneedhugs]

This video and comment section is so relatable. I have literally never felt this way before. My people are here!

[@toywashington3934]

I’m 54 and I am autistic and I understand the strong sense of justice. I think what you have yet to discover is that there’s a difference between situations of injustice, and situations that are none of our business. it sounds like you describe a lot of situations. Where you are picking sides in a disagreement of fight and truly, we should all mind our own business because we don’t know all the details and we don’t know the full story and I do agree with you sometimes people get what they deserve. Sometimes people got it coming. My sense of Justice seems to perk up when I can see that people are being treated differently or when rules are being applied differently to one than to others. Tend to be with institutions and organizations as opposed to individuals on different sides of an argument,. This is different from the situation that you’ve described of course I’m fully aware that I could be mistaken and missing something. Please feel free to point it out to me m. Like you said, we all think we are right we all think we have the correct answer And I’m no different from anyone else in the sense that I believe what I’m saying, when I’m saying it but But that I can also be proven wrong

[@allanwhite1533]

As a Dyspraxic,I've often heard the same thing said about dyspraxics that we have a strong sense of justice. Another thing I see oft stated about dyspraxics is that we have a heightened empathy. I don't know if this has ever actually been studied so don't really know how true it is. I can say, from my own experience that I've always been highly sensitive and as a young boy was even criticized by parents, teachers, etc for being "too sensitive"

[@Catlily5]

I heard the "too sensitive" criticism many times. Maybe some people are just too mean.

[@allanwhite1533]

@@Catlily5 exactly, in this world I feel it's a far greater sin to be too mean rather than too sensitive

[@Catlily5]

@@allanwhite1533 Yes, I agree!

[@ratiquette]

Hi Dana, I've recently come across your work and I very much appreciate the perspective you share in your videos. I think the double empathy problem might explain some of the things you're talking about around the idea of likeability. I totally agree with what you're saying - that autistic people don't necessarily have the same chance of being socially magnetic among nonautistic people - but I felt it'd be worth mentioning one of the possible mechanisms that could be behind it. It certainly explains why we can often appreciate the charisma of other autistic people when they feel they are generally not liked. Regarding "strong sense of justice," I know for myself that kind of bold, stance taking, argumentative firebrand can come out when I'm dysregulated in a certain way. Often this can be in response to something I perceive as cruel or destructive, and I can feel very motivated to stand up against whatever/whoever it is I think is the source of the harm. I've had to learn to stay cool, to gather more information and develop my understanding of a situation before jumping to a conclusion. Like you, I've also abandoned arguing on the internet for lack of tangible results. I do think there's some pull for me to develop my values and attempt to live by them, and I do abhor the sort of cynicism that leads people to abandon values in favor of pure self-interest, but I don't believe these things are more natural for autistic people than they are for others. All I have to do is think back to my worldview when I was a teenager to disprove that. Regarding the autistic political party thing, Beau of the Fifth Column (an american leftist youtuber) put out a video just a few hours ago that feels relevant to what you said about getting votes. It's titled "Let's talk about talking to your representative and social media...." and the main takeaway is that you can use your own organizing efforts to put pressure on politicians who are actually in office to adopt policies you want to see enacted. I won't carry on about it, but I recommend taking a look at the video because he lays out the idea very clearly. Whew, that was a long comment. Thanks again for your videos. They're helping me feel valid in a time where I'm experiencing a lot of priority shifts in my life. Hope you're well!

[@meganoreo1839]

the kitty lurking

[@AmalBarre-h6c]

I fully agree but don't know if I'll ever get have a grasp of the concept of having a sense of justice. In my experiences, I came across a page that spread awareness of trying to save the pets from daily euthanasia( for space not health reasons). In the process, the only way the pet could be saved is adoptions or rescue holds with pledges. Rescues in itself can only save a small handful and are more motivated with pledges placed for certain animals. Obviously, as a broke student, the most I can do is spread awareness and pledge when I can. Yet, this is a crisis that happens everyday as pets are killed for being a inconvenience. The whole concept is just unbelievable as I just cry and dissociate when I come across the page.I tell myself that I wish I could do more in my efforts to save those babies. It seems that no one really cares and looks at me crazy for even carrying about the mistreatment of animals. One can say to avoid the group, but the guilt carries in my heart for not being their "voice" for not spreading the awareness. I feel as though this is a problem that can be solved if more peoples pushed for awareness campaigns. Just a dilemma of mines.

[@AmalBarre-h6c]

Sorry for the slight anger dump. I think what I was trying to infer that sometimes having a sense of justice for things we care about can come at a cost with our mental health & physical health. We can try to "ignore" the issue, but it feels that it goes against our morals even though we don't have a chance due to our backgrounds( poverty and etc).

[@duikmans]

Yep, it's the reason why we're seen as party poopers and we won't win any popularity contest.

[@kirstinline]

great video. i wish i was as articulate about my interior world as you are when i was your age. kudos.

[@craigbrowning9448]

As someone (of mostly European Ancestry) who developed an interest in playing Jazz, I felt I needed to be able to function in the Black Community. My father was very conservative (and somewhat racist, though he had some affinity for Black entertainer from his generation). As I got acclimatized to the Inner City Jazz/Blues/R&B scene I got to see the similarities between Ableism and Racism, though as I have become more aware of the Autism Spectrum and Neurodiversity the similarities are more apparent. Not so long ago, I learned how I made the patrons of a "White" club uncomfortable. Though not everything was "Kum-By-Yah" in the "Black" clubs, I felt more valuable as a musician.

[@Catlily5]

Maybe just say that we have an "internal sense of justice." Meaning that it may or may not align with other people's ideas about justice. Which can also vary a lot based on politics and religion.

[@robertdonnan2893]

Interesting video, I do relate to this a lot. I’m also autistic but lean more to the right and believe that my values are for the greater good and that the other side is morally and mentally lost, but this seems to be a thing with neurotypicals too in politics especially now where we seem to be more divided today than even in 2016. I think shows like Black-ish actually portray this topic very well.

[@gmlpc7132]

Lots of interesting topics here. You're right that we must certainly be mindful that we may feel certain we are right and on the side of good on particular issues but other people with the opposite view feel exactly the same. To them we are the bad guys. That doesn't mean there's no right or wrong or that we should just "agree to disagree" but being prepared to accept that their views will genuinely seem right to them. Views are often the product of upbringing and shaped by those around us and we might well hold the same opinions as them if we had the same experiences. As much as possible we need to challenge the views rather than the people behind them. Whether and when to intervene on issues to help someone is a very difficult matter. You're right that not all help is appreciated - someone genuinely wants to sort things out themselves or prefers to be helped by other people who know them better or who they feel are more expert or just who them more comfortable with. Sometimes the other person doesn't like someone intervening because they think it suggest weakness or that they should then feel obliged to the helper and must "repay" them somehow. Everyone of us has got this wrong and either helped someone who didn't appreciate it or we didn't step in and were seen as unhelpful or uncaring. There are no easy answers but maybe it's best to keep a distance unless we know the person really well and can feel certain they would appreciate our help.

[@laura.bseyoga]

You raise a lot of interesting points in this video! I've always had a strong sense of justice (& perception of injustice) that may be linked to empathy (for the underdog often). When I was teaching I always tried to be fair with my classes & this included never making empty threats of punishment/ boundaries & always following through on rewards/ sanctions. It was exhausting! Most teachers wither don't have this same sense of justice, or don't care as much as I do. Now try going through climate anxiety/ climate grief with that sense of justice/ injustice!! I can't look away, even though a lot of what I see doesn't directly affect me. Yet. So I do what I can to support activists & take part in protests if I feel able to. It's a shame the justice system wasn't designed by neurodivergent people - it would probably serve us all a lot more fairly!!

[@moonman239]

I think I get it a little. Guess the trick is to think in terms of who’s affected and how much they’d realistically care.

[@HayleyWinter]

I tend to think of it as strong sense of integrity. I strive to do the 'right' thing. Which can be a movable action, provided the person giving input doesn't make a sharp demand of it 😅

[@MariaJoseRozas]

I'm unsure how to feel about the term "sense of justice" applied to sticking to a personal code, when having the experience of 1. not always having been actually just, 2. having seen injustice coming from other autistic folks. I really wish it was called something else. Perception can be such a tricky thing! I learned to make more questions than providing Affirmations In Complete Sentences because the latter tend to scare people away, thinking I'm this "inflexible" stereotype that feels removed from my inner experience. On the other hand (especially in environments like workplaces with a certain kind of work culture), I keep feeling frustrated for not seeming to be able to "compromise gracefully like the others" at actually unjust things. I don't know. It's a source of frustration, for sure.

[@PalmersPhotos]

You're good with that hammer... For most of my life I've been drawn towards lots of various volunteer organisations, and despite feeling really determined to "make a difference" it has always blown up in my face, leaving me feeling both helpless and taken advantage of. If I ever see an opportunity to "help" someone or something I feel obliged to do so, which is often complicated by misunderstandings on all parts. Less so when it comes to taking on helpless animals though - I could well be the hairiest and ugliest Disney princess there is :P I also definitely throw myself into whatever employment or paid freelance jobs I am engaged in way too hard (because "helping"), going well above and beyond what I should be doing, and generally at pretty great expense to myself (in both unpaid overtime and in equipment or consumables that really should have been provided by my employer). In my last regular job, where my rate was barely over the minimum recommended at 3 days per week, it wasn't unusual for me to invest 35-40% of my tiny wage into the equipment that I was actually promised by my employer, and I would also quite often work a good 500+ hours per year unpaid. But, because I could see better ways of doing my job and could produce a significantly better product I thought little of it, even though I received no reimbursement from my employer. Massive tax refunds though, and my tax agent really loved going through my expenses with me... Great video, +1 sub

[@carrier_pigeon214]

I’m guilty of doing that as well. I would highly advise against it. I had a really bad experience at my last employer where they took extreme advantage of me.

[@cassielee1114]

You still have a strong sense of justice. There will always be differing views as to what’s right and wrong in any situation.

[@adamh2900]

I would completely agree with you that autistic people often hold very strong opinions, and may struggle to empathise with the views and perspectives of other people This can sometimes lead autistic people towards radical political or social movements of whatever kind, at the risk of making themselves extremely unpopular

[@mariakalini4168]

Your hair is pretty (: I have a similar texture but naturally dark brown/black. ❤

[@transponderings]

Some very wise observations about some very relatable Autistic experience. (Oh, and it’s not just you who went through school lacking likability!) Btw, your cat teleported in the middle of your video. ☺

[@timmysmith9991]

Dana is so charming and smart

[@LynIsALilADHD]

I felt a huge sense of relief when I found out this was a thing related to something medical.... I thought I was just this atheist with this hugely weird sense of ethics and morals........ I swear to you, I boggled my own mind!

[@LynIsALilADHD]

Oh and randomly.... damn elon to hell. I miss disability twitter.....😢 elon took the people away. All I have left are the pornbots.🤷‍♀️

[@Ripflavor]

I understand I feel the same way

[@FirstmaninRome]

so true Dana, great video, me dad is a Cult of trumper, and he's also been in half a dozen Other cults, (including but not limited too Scientology, Jehovah Witnesscism, dare to be great MLM, and Rainbow vacuum cleaner MLM, and Homepathic medicines of various kinds, so there is a naivety, black and white thinking, that thinks there is a simple truth that Most people of missing. He is mind blind in a rather more extreme way than I am, and that fact causes him to think he knows everything and other know nothing. Oddly, this has made his life, combined with steady functional alcoholism more happy than mine, lol. Both my parents are actually just like This, I'd say much less theory of mind than me, but Happier in many respects, though mom is not very bright in general and dad's an engineer. Point is, I think this a Huge part of the cause of closed minded militant right wing thinking, this Other kind of autism we don't see much on youtube, well, not Diagnosed anyway.

[@Catlily5]

Yeah, being autistic doesn't mean that you won't be for Trump. I would like to think that fewer of us would go for him.

[@reallyWyrd]

It sounds like you have learned a lot.

[@Chulpansilu]

I was trying so much to be normal that I’m actually burnt out I’m like whatever I’m autistic and I really don’t give a shit I gave up wanting to be „healed“ to not feel left out either u get me or u don’t and I’m tired of explaining to ppl why I don’t wanna go out etc or why r u so weird??? Ugh stfu

[@davidrichards9898]

I don't agree with all your points but you are a perfect example of why "wisdom comes with age" is a ridiculous statement. I think what you say is most telling where you describe how you are not very confident about being right. How you have been treated probably has a huge impact because from the videos I have watched you usually nail it. Of course no one is always right and all of us are learning but I think the important thing about determining right and wrong is considering others. I mean what is justice anyway. At some level it is supposed to reflect our empathy and valuation of others. And if you arrive at your answers with this as your guide you can't be far wrong. Most autists do this. And confronted with new compelling evidence will have no problem improving this. We never get the big stories right out the gate, be they covid or wars or political pigs that seem to litter our world even more so than normal. I think the autists assets are the need to understand, empathize and support the right causes. And it does take a terrible toll on your mental health and your relationships but any consideration for others, especially those who are oppressed, has value. Even your thoughts in this regard, have value. Mansplaining history lesson follows which I hope you see as the compliment or encouragement it is intended. Nelson Mandela is one of the few public figures I feel had the strength and resilience in terms of his empathy and the strength and resilience, to action it. I feel privileged to see autists who can match him in empathy but I don't think many people, autistic or not, are born with both sides of this coin. I don't claim Mr. Mandela is an autist but that he could see and feel others pain and his goal were determined based on the needs of others not his own. Note : He destroyed 2 marriages and freely admits that he was an awful husband to at least his 1st wife and was an absent father to his 4 children. In the 1950s he and his law partner formed the first black law firm in Johannesburg. He could have lived far better than his fellow citizens, probably even been "favored" under the white government and society. And he rejected this for what would eventually amount to freeing 45 million people. That is what empathy can do. But it has its cost. Sorry I get carried away. I love your content and I think you are going to much more successful, under your terms than you give yourself credit for. It gives me some hope for your future and for those of my kids. I am David. My wife is Tracy. I am ancient but not wise. Recently self diagnosed and still finding my feet. I grew up in South Africa but have lived in USA for last 25 years. My kids are 25 (daughter) and 23 (son)

[@FirstmaninRome]

I'm soo hopeless socially, I don't think I can do much in that way to help, only accumulate ruminations, regrets, mistakes, I operate from an honest position of socialist militancy and broad tolerance, but we need to go for the fascists throat I think, no compromising there, you can't really reason with them.

[@argusfleibeit1165]

I think part of my feelings of angst during this awful Trump era, might be based on my extreme feelings of outrage towards his life of privilege and criminality. Him being rewarded by letting him become president, and the fact that he's still getting away with everything becomes a never-ending source of aggravation. The people who worship him, and these "religious" leaders who act like "everything is forgiven" because he lies and says he's a Christian, just makes me want to blow my top. He's caused so much damage to our society, and even to people around the world, it makes it even worse to see him still enjoying his fat, stupid lifestyle. He makes all around him still call him "Mr. President" even though he's broken so many of our laws and threatened our very democracy. I hope I will feel better once he's convicted and punished for any of the many crimes he's guilty of. If all of that's due to my autism, well, maybe the world would be better off if there were more of us who felt this way.

[@jeffskarski6644]

I actually think calling it a "sense of Justice" is fine for two reasons. One, like you said, you're too hard on yourself and, by extension, the autistic perspective. It's an extremely unjust world, and that's mostly built around neurotypical features. We are marginalized because the system is literally not well designed to fool us in some respects, and gaslighting us is just easier than reconfiguring it to do so. Certain aspects of White Supremacy cis heteronormative patriarchy just JUMPS out as nonsense. We literally have a "sense" for injustice because we're walking around with the cognitive equivalent of the sunglasses from They Live. (I don't want to overstate the case. It has to be nurtured, and obviously not every Autist does so. Elon Musk exists.) Secondly, there's just a much more open minded interpretation of the phrase to hand, whereby everyone HAS a "sense of Justice" it just so happens that we can make broad observations of what that looks like in autistic people. So, the "autistic sense of Justice" is no different from the "female anatomy". Both can be misused or used responsibly, whatever that looks like to you.

[@jeffskarski6644]

It's certainly possible to do something with good intentions but profound ignorance, but if you're intentions really are good (I believe yours probably are) figuring out most of the do's and don'ts of advocacy is pretty doable. Don't go to Ukraine. Pick something that's not TOO far outside of your wheelhouse, and make it a special interest BEFORE you start doing anything about it. You'll know the rules better than half the people doing the work in two weeks, conservatively.