DIfficult parental dynamics is such a complex thing to navigate; you're doing really well, better than it may feel. You're building a supportive community. I totally get deriving principles from tv because Humans put the best of themselves into creativity so there's nothing wrong with that.

It feels easier because it is. I'm exhausted trying to find people I can trust. I recently had a friend i considered family, try to ruin my life. Its not even worth trying any more. We treat people how we want to be treated, unfortunately they do too.

I can relate to this as well, since I am also autistic. I do believe the reason why many neurotypical people don't understand what autism is nor what it was like being autistic, is because they are not autistic themselves, and they did not discover autism by themselves, by not doing any research about it at all like researching it on Google, read books, or watch different videos about Autism. I felt like some of them just refuse to discover about autism for themselves, because they just don't care. They mostly would tell us to try harder, do better, stop being weird, but it's not always that easy. No matter how many times we tried to fit in, and mask ourselves, it would still cause more stress, because the autistic brain is not similar to the neurotypical brain. It's just wired differently. I also have that kind of experience mostly from my own grandmother. Whenever I would mention autism, she would flip out, and become ableist towards me. She wanted me to be more of an extroverted person, and be more like her and the other members in our family, when I can't be like them, because I am not an extrovert outgoing person. I'm more of an introvert person, who always spends a lot of time alone in a room or a space where is quiet. I did heard that many autistic people do struggle trying to keep a job, because of their experiences in the workplace. I wish that all jobs has a space or working accommodations for autistic people, because I do think that it is really important to look out for your mental health. It is something that I have worked on as well, when I applied to work at my 1st job, and I've already put my accommodations for my autism. I had decided to experience something new, by working at a job, and take a break from my college experience, since I choose to drop out from a 4 year college from the burnout and the hardwork that I have done from it, and maybe choose to return to college if the job experience didn't work for me.

"the magic was back and it was incredible again" yep.

i couldn't agree more with this. sending lots of positivity your way. <3

I'm going to come out and say that I relate to this...from the mother's perspective. Some parents really struggle with emotional connection to their children and it is NEVER the child's fault, and the parent should do everything in their power to overcome these feelings and be the best parent they possibly can be. But things like this happen and I don't think it's a conscious choice on the parent's part, it's simply something that happens to them and they lack the self-awareness or the skills to improve their parenting. To Dana and anyone else in this situation: you deserve better parents and I hope you're able to heal from the hurt imposed on you by your emotionally immature parents.

You saying you catered your hobbies to not having to interact with other people is such a relatable mood. I like to bake/cook, color books, do puzzles, listen to music and dance/sing to it, play with LEGO, read books, watch movies/TV shows, write TTRPG (and play only the solo journaling ones). There are other things I'd like to try, such as beading, cross stitching, gardening, gem painting, knitting, and sewing. What do all of these have in common? I don't need other people to be able to interact with these hobbies. I could do some more social things, but if I want to do something like pilates, yoga, or zumba, I will just watch tutorials on KZbin and do it by myself at home so that I don't have to go to a gym and do it in front of other human beings. The most social of my hobbies is definitely the TTRPG one because, before solo journaling games recently became a thing, TTRPG pretty much worked in the same way boardgames did: you'd gather a group of friends and collaboratively play a TTRPG session around a table (or online). That did get me introduced to an online community on Discord and it did get me to interact with people for a while but people kept "pressuring" me to go play with them or to be the one running my own sessions for the games I published and they didn't realize that, in between the PDA and the social anxiety, the more they kept pushing the more this went from being a fun hobby to being something I dread interacting with. I published 4 new games back in 2022, burned out, and was never able to make a proper game since. I honestly don't know if I'm still burned out or if that special interest has finally ran its course and fizzled out but now I feel like I don't really belong in the server anymore because all people want to do is talk about playing TTRPG and video games together and I feel bad for being there when I don't really want to do any of those things, but I just awkwardly stay around simply because I have no other place to go.

A few months ago I managed to get a really tight and neat friend group by going to a 4-week selection process for a local vocational school for software development. We went there every day and needed to ask for help from each other, plus there was some trauma-bonding-esque thing of facing project deadlines and frustrations together 🥴

I am a late-diagnosed autistic woman (was diagnosed last year at 25). I recently discovered that not everyone experiences pain when hearing some sounds (for example, utensils falling on the floor). Most people can find those sounds are unpleasant but they don't feel pain. I thought everyone felt like their eardrum was being stabbed and that they were just better at hiding it.

I can relate to this so much. I have the same dynamic with my mom, regarding outgrowing her (and my dad) emotionally. And extreme emotional and physical neglect. My mom is still alive, but I wonder all the time how I would feel when she dies. I really don't think I'll feel sad. I just don't feel a connection to her. She doesn't see me, and ultimately I know it's because she was never able to see herself.

I think I partially agree with “memory” thinking, but looks like I have all of that sorted out in a way, that it has more like an analogy-database structure, so usually I remember nothing at all or only a word description of the situation. Unless the topic arises and I need to dive into it, then I can recall the memory of how it was and what it felt like in detail. Though, before the topic is risen, I even don't remember something like that happened, or it feels as it was in other life/not with me.

Regarding if normies do stuff or not, you have to remember, they lie and probably you don't. People pretend all the time they don't feel awkward etc. Or if they are awkward, it's cutsie awkward. It's all in how you tell it.

I found that when I unmasked in public, I am more often a target for general harassment, including sexual harassment, which has made it very frightening for me to do so. Being able to unmask safely is a luxury that not many are afforded, especially when you are part of a marginalized community

Why are people so hard to connect with? I like people. People are cool. When I watch them go about their business or when they talk about their interests, dreams and goals with enthusiasm, when they let their 'weird' out. I really like that. But whenever I meet actual people in actual life, It's dry like the Sahara desert. Or it's plain confusing and I feel like I'm missing context for everything and no one is bothering to catch me up. And I've gotten better at conversation, at expressing myself, at asking questions to motivate people to speak... But it's still so hard to build connection. No matter how many times we meet it still feels like tip-toeing around each other. It makes me wonder if they are fine with it being this way and if it's fulfilling for them or they also don't know how to connect better.

Hi Dana, with regards to your first thoughts about developing social skills, have you tried mirroring someone that is already good at it? The idea is to find someone who is good at social interaction already, who you can be close to in person, and then they interact and you pay attention to what they are doing and repeat those things in your mind. Don't try to logically analyze it, just notice and repeat. The idea here is that you're developing connections between things that are appropriate to say, with visual and other sensory information of the kinds of situations they are being said in. It is then training the subconscious brain, such that when you are exposed to the same situation again, those things get triggered subconsciously and you know how to act. Much like learning a musical instrument, this kind of thing needs to be practiced regularly, and won't be remembered if it isn't due to the forgetting curve. I suspect that a lot of the social difficulty experienced by autistic people is actually not that heavily related to the autistic neurotype directly, but is rather: - Many autistic people have reduced herd instinct, they are driven by what they personally want to do, and won't engage with things if they don't see value in it. So if they don't see value in interacting with other people at a young age, they may not choose to mirror those behaviors. - Many autistic people's parents also have trouble with social skills, emotional regulation and other things, and are thus unable to effectively model these to a child because it is 'missing information' for them. This is probably the case for you due to what you've discussed about your parents before. - You are trying to develop social skills as an adult in an environment surrounded by 'experts' and thus the communications that are happening are at expert level complexity, while someone learning as a child and teenager 'normally', is exposed to gradually more complex things slowly over a period of time.

I find it hard to find people that like the same interest while being open enough to accept my specific type or level of interest in that thing to exist and still be cool with me. And then I want friends that have more than just that specific interest in common with me (we don't need everything to be in common but at least a few), so that when my focus isn't on that particular interest, I still have a friend. And then there's the fact that I hate small talk but also don't trust people enough to have more than surface level communication because I don't want to be seen as weird. 😩

As regards making new friends I speak theoretically as I have no success in that area but probably the best way to make new friends is to already have friends who can make introductions, etc. That though is little use for the person who doesn't already have many friends. For autists there's an added problem because even with introductions it's difficult to know what to do next. it's a little like getting into a car and then not knowing how to drive it. In the past I did meet more people at work and got on okay and sometimes well with them but rarely did it move into friendship. I didn't really know how to move things forward. Many people make connections with others because they talk a lot about their partners, children, families and other social things but I didn't have those so I wasn't bringing much to the table. I didn't like talking about my personal life and maybe that made me seem too difficult to know. I think this may be true for many with autism as we don't have all those personal relationships to draw upon.

My interests are really too "niche" and obscure to connect with other people. I'm also interested in TV programmes but mostly ones from decades ago so it's not even possible to connect with fans of current TV. I don't discuss my interests with the few people I meet because it would be pointless as they're things most people either haven't heard of or are not interested in. It is usually possible to find people with those interests online and we might discuss aspects of a show, etc, but it doesn't go any further than that, at least not for me. To be frank I'd feel a bit apprehensive if anyone then suggested discussing anything else or getting onto personal matters. For me friendships - especially new ones - just bring new anxieties so for me it seems easier to be alone. Some interests can be done with others - indeed many enjoy that - but like you I prefer to follow my interests alone. For example if I'm watching a show or listening to music I'd find it distracting to have someone making comments or expecting me to respond. i might do that afterwards but not during.

Dana you are one of the most relatable people in the autistic community for me. I also hate talking about special interests as I internalise it mostly and I don't know how to communicate it well other than I'm passionate about them. I maybe am a little harsh on myself but my social skills are fairly lacking as I have few friends and wish I had more but it simply hard to find ANYTHING worth saying to most people that isn't mega cringe.

Wanting to meet gene hunt is so based

Thank you so much for talking about not wanting to share your special interest with other fans!!! I have felt this way about some of my special interests too, and I didn't know that was something other people experienced as well. I only got diagnosed autistic 3 years ago (at age 37) and I realized that I forced myself to socialize too much in the past. I'm naturally extroverted, but I would push myself over my limits to try and make/keep friends. I was highly masking and compensating, and it definitely took a huge toll on me. Now, I'm severely chronically ill and haven't been able to work, study or have a social life in ~10 years. While I don't think the masking and compensating caused it, it DEFINITELY contributed to my decline. I miss having friends, but I just don't have the spoons anymore... :/

While I know I could go up to people in an interest club and talk, I choose not to because it's unnecessary stress. I love Dr who 🎉

It’s such a shite feeling!!! but im glad I found your video and these comments from others dealing w the same issue, it makes me feel less crazy for this cycle lol

You just described my family tbh. I wanna go no contact so bad

I don’t think I have ever heard a description of this particular situation better articulated. Thank you for making it word, so I can better explain it to people who want me to do people things 😊 Much like yourself, and I imagine many of us, I became proficient in doing my own thing, in my own wee world from a very early age. I was consistently reported as “not integrating within peer group”. I’m late diagnosed at thirty-several, and I’m sure many of us shared this sentiment in concluding that we were inherently weird, or fundamentally unlikable. It doesn’t help that a vast majority of us are put through absolute purgatory in school - pretty much consolidating the sense of otherness into an entirely self sufficient unit. We cannot develop crucial social skills because we are actively excluded from doing so. It’s like a lesson we can never attend: we’re in the corridor while everyone else is in class. I think solitary and specific interests are sanctuary for many of us. The concept of opening up my sanctuary and attempting to make it a social thing seems kind of absurd to me. I get that we’re supposed to find kinship in “likeminded” people who share our interests, but it’s rarely like that. In order for you to make connections with people, you have to interact with them - but it’s exhausting, bewildering, uncomfortable (perhaps for them, as much as for you?) and ultimately makes you want to engage with people even less.

It can be hard

"I fit in with the other people who don't fit in." So funny, so true.

This video is the first of yours that came up in my feed. I completely understand what you are talking about. It mirrors my own experience with my parents.

I get it. I have gotten involved in certain online groups for some music groups I'm interested in. And online its great but as soon as I go to a concert or something in person with people liking the group, I just can't engage past just enjoying the concert. I am still trying to figure out social aspects too. Great video!

Thankyou for expressing this!!!! I absolutely completely relate and it's been so hard to put words to.

No one that I encounter ever talks about their love of visiting filming locations, and I find it so great that it's a fellow autistic person who mentions it. I visited Toronto, and spent most of the time there visiting locations where "Scott Pilgrim vs The World" was filmed, and it was one of my happiest trips. I have no friends, so I have no advice to give. All of my hobbies are also "alone" hobbies, and I can't sew/craft and talk to people at the same time, anyway.

As someone who is 2E I've been lucky to work some amazing jobs. Thanks to being gifted I've been able to excel at high level jobs however. The burnout hits at the year and a half mark like clockwork. No matter how much I enjoyed the job how good I was at it the few connections I could make once the burnout crept in just thinking became too much I've left jobs on 0 notice too many times because I get overwhelmed and feel the need to escape

Dude seriously...in my twenties - after realizing I'm factually gay - I got immensely hyped about joining the "LGBT community" and going to club meetings. It soon turned out just having the same kinda sexual interest was not gonna help me feel connected. Gay clubbing was the absolute worst...sweaty loud people getting completely wasted and trying to pick one-night stands while dancing to Shakira ('twas way back then) 😆

That's awful not having someone to teach you how to get through life. My parents taught me almost nothing and it wasn't until my brother came back into my life that he taught me how to do many basic practical things that are required to live like managing money, finding a place to live and, well, leaving the house and experiencing things. Afterwards I used the internet to teach myself emotional skills and finally after more than a decade of adulthood do I feel like I'm able to just be an actual person.

Dana, if you want to do something with music, I’d recommend maybe learning guitar or piano. Maybe you won’t be able to do it in a band, but you can probably do solo work. Maybe you can get a friend (if you have a musician friend) to help. Personally, I’m in a similar situation. I want to start a metal band, but finding people who have the same drive and passion as me is f*cking difficult. Partially because I don’t leave my house (I can’t drive) and because my parents are weird about me using social media (they’re really controlling, even though I’m 20). I plan on starting my band after I move out, and trying to post my guitar stuff on KZbin, TikTok and Instagram.

Wow. Stunning results

No worries. I'm 43 and I chopped mine a bit randomly 😅

tell me am i thee only who is discriminated at the bus, i mean, the public transport in general, i sit still quiet in my seat and somebody comes and sits at my side, i'm looking at the landscape and the person at my side keeps ataring me, like thinking that i am crazy, affff, can i not be leave in peace even in the bus?????? well, i don't know why.

I used a little Garage Band and have some music theory. I'm not an expert but maybe I can help a little

This is so real. Other people always think it's weird that I don't want to talk about my interests that I spend everyday of my life thinking about/working on

realising your parents are just making it up as they go along is a giant stride into adulthood.

Thanks Dana 💕

I’m so proud of you for cracking the code. ❤

Ya I've been playing dnd since I was about 13, almost ten years now. When I was in high school, I taught DOZENS of people to play, invited them over, went to their places, engaged with them as people all to play with them. When I got to Uni, people were farther away, emotionally, I didn't know anyone that well anymore. I only pulled together a couple of groups and even then the groups petered out almost immediately. After all these years, there are five people I've met that actually want to play, and we try and play once a week every week. I call these five my friends, and sure in high school we hung out a lot and did stuff together, but these days we just video call to play and then hang up and go about our lives. On one hand, the average rpg group only lasts two or three of sessions, but on the other hand, you'd think after teaching nearly a hundred people to play I would have made a few more friends. I'll keep trying when I build up the confidence to build more ttrpg groups, but it's always gonna be tough, and basically impossible with strangers. The worst part is always the NT instinct to say 'wow that's so cool, we should play sometime' and then never follow up lol. Also, I definitely relate to the sentiment of just not liking many people. My psych said I'd probably be a lot happier with just 2 or 3 ND friends, and I explained to them how I only really like maybe one in a hundred people, and maybe only one in a hundred people like me, so the odds say that I'll make a friend roughly every ten thousand people I meet, assuming we actually talk and aren't too nervous to actually try. To be honest, I'm probably beating the odds, having made 2 new friends in the past 4 years, I just wish I had friends that lived in the same town and actively invited me to stuff, you know? I want the kind of friend who could show up announced and I would find the surprise enjoyable instead of stressful. Well, here's to the perpetual struggle.

Do you have experience with autism or Less Wrong meetups in the UK? (Almost everyone at Less Wrong meetups is autistic, so the second is sort of a subset of the first.) Or effective altruism meetups? (Also high rate of autistic people.) I was at the Less Wrong Community Weekend a few days ago, and it was amazing! I constantly ran into new people and within minutes we had established that we're both autistic, and then started discussing our traumas, special interests, kinks, exploitative exes/parents/bosses/et al., so delightfully inappropriate topics for the first ten minutes of meeting someone! They even had stickers to indicate preferences around touch (hugs) and conversation norms. Admittedly, I can seem extroverted from the perspective of people who are even more introverted than me, and I've overcome a lot of my social anxieties, which makes all of that easier, but I figured I put it out there just in case it's helpful after all.

Have you tried using one of those music making apps to try get music to your lyrics? Interacting with one person is hard, add another person and I stress over how Im supposed to split my attention equally between them.

I feel ya. My social interactions are limited to 1 to 2 people at work while working and comment sections on KZbin. Just because you have similar interests as someone it definitely doesn't make it easier or likely that you can get on with them. Socializing is a nightmare.

This is super relatable, I've never seen someone express this feeling before but I totally get the struggle of not fitting in anywhere and not getting along with anyone even if they're perfectly nice people and I like them in theory, actually interacting with them is a totally different story and I've now come to accept it (most of the time, sometimes it's still a hard pill to swallow). The thing about being 27 too, I'm only 21 but I've had the same experience of people always telling me to try harder or to 'not use autism as an excuse' even though I've tried very hard to build social skills and I only 'use autism as an excuse' because it is truly the only thing that explains it at this point. Normal people don't get it and I always notice a big shift in how they interact with me when they first meet me vs after a while of knowing me and learning that I don't know how to interact with them like a normal person. Whenever I start something new (ie new school, uni, new job, new acquaintance) I tell myself "I'm going to try harder this time and I'll be a normal person from now on" and I do the smalltalk thing and I make eye contact and whatever but in the end, it never lasts more than a few weeks because I'm just inherently different to these people and the mask always slips and I revert to being that weird awkward person who no one really likes. My social skills never improve and nothing really changes.

NOOO YOU'RE SO RIGHT! My special interest is Lilo and Stitch and I feel so like selfish over it, especially my favorite character. "You don't love them the way I do, so I don't want to talk about it to you."

What you shared actually illuminated quite a bit of what I've always gone through but never understood why. Even though, I'm primarily dyspraxic I too have a number of special interests but still kinda find it hard to socialize or make a social activity out of them. My approach and orientation towards those special interests always seems.to be very unique and in some ways related to some of my particular needs as a dyspraxic person.