The truth about bullbars & 4WD safety (you're not going to like it) | Auto Expert John Cadogan

[@AutoExpertJC]

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[@benmcfarlane2959]

Do car manufacturers who supply genuine bullbars test them properly?

[@JohnSmith-yv6eq]

@@benmcfarlane2959 If they did test and di get certified .... do you think they would not be shouting it from the rooftops as a "selling point of difference" in their sales blurb???? No shouting eh.........................

[@benmcfarlane2959]

@@JohnSmith-yv6eq well there is a degree of testing done on all bullbars for airbag compliance so they can be sold here in Aus. What i am asking is whether or not they are crash tested on a vehicle not just a jig like the aftermarket ones

[@mauricecuskelly4107]

Five years ago I purchased a new new Prado and decided I would look after this vehicle. I was doing quite a bit of bush bashing in my series 120 Prado and it did look the worse for wear. I accepted that as the cost of using it as it was intended. However with the new one I decided to protect it somewhat from from the scrub damage. I hand a steel ARB bull bar and side rails and steps fitted. Also had a 2” lift and airbags and a upgraded suspension fitted. I also use the vehicle for towing a heavy off-road van. Since I’ve had this vehicle I’ve not needed the bullbar and side rails as I’m a little more selective where I drive. The safety issue has been on my mind since shortly after I had them fitted. You are so right about your assessment. I’m almost wishing there was a law requiring companies manufacturing aftermarket equipment explaining the disadvantages or in some cases dangers involved in the figment of such equipment. In fact as you say, if it is also a danger to pedestrians and other road users why isn’t it illegal.

[@BigFellaGames]

This video changed my thinking on vehicle building. I love exploring this country and have never let a big mud hole, a steep slippery incline or sandy mound stop me. So, my question is, how would you design a vehicle to safely do these things reliably? Some requirements, winch, loaded with camping gear, A\T tires as a minimum, longer suspension travel and vehicle protection such as skid plates/UVP.

[@grahammcgrath6453]

John as a paramedic, I can attest that pedal displacement is an issue. I have been to a significant amount of accidents where the pedal displacement causes significant entrapment issues and delayed extraction.

[@davidwild66]

I'm glad that there's folks like you who do the job that you do. Just in case I ever need you, thanks in advance.

[@ScottMurrayBestFamilyCars]

Thank you for turning up to work with your A-game every single day.

[@holeephuk]

Pedal displacement or fatigue caused by ridiculously low speed limits outside of our cities? Before you start with your bullshit how speed kills, I wanna let you know that I am driving in Europe regularly 😊

[@JamesSecretofski]

@@holeephuk I hope you realise that in order to increase speed to Euro levels, the gov needs to increase the road worthy standards for all cars allowed on the road to euro levels as well. Half the cars will ordered off the road, there will be riots.

[@mkilpatr03]

@@holeephuk Right or wrong, this comment is irrelevant to the issue that JC is covering in this video.

[@andrewnewman2695]

I had to be cut out of a vehicle due to peddle displacement after an old lady fell asleep at the wheel and careered across the road hitting me head on. The crumple zones worked well considering that accident happened 20 odd years ago, and I walked away with just a sore foot. I also witnessed a head on accident between two utes, both hilux's, one with, one without bull bars. The driver in the ute with the bar, had the steering wheel pushed right back into his stomach, and his legs were crushed. I stood there holding his hand, talking to him while waiting for the paramedics to arrive, sadly he died at the scene. The other utes front end was completely obliterated ,but the cabin remained intact. The driver spent the night in hospital and was released the following day. I live in rural Australia, plenty of roos, I'm still not going to put a bulbar on my car though.

[@suxix7312]

Damn man. Youve been through more shit than most. One of my biggest fears is getting into an accident alone on the highway and dying alone and suffering infront of strangers. I try not to ever think that way but where I live there is a strech of highway 81 that is just incredibly poorly designed for just how many people use it now. Too many tractor trailers and idiots in their Big SUVs and over sized trucks doing 85 to 100mph in a 55 mph zone. At least two fatal crashes happen here a year. Anyways I couldnt imagine what it was like holding someone's hand as they passed on. And just how much you taking the time to do that for a stranger actually ment to them. The comfort it must of brought them in that moment. Everyone is in a hurry to go no where and risking everyones life in doing so.

[@robstone4537]

Many years ago, in my youth, I had a Hilux with a Bullbar and I was very proud of it. It looked really manly and tough. Until I actually hit a bull at 80km/h. Well a cow, but a very big one. The vehicle still sort of looked ok to me after the accident so I was surprised when it was a write off. I went to the repairer to ask what was going on and he made me crawl under and look at how the chassis rails had buckled and compressed and said that's what he always sees with bullbar impacts. Never fitted a bull bar since then. Always remember the aftermarket industry is not there to help you, they are there to take your money.

[@davidwild66]

A 4WD shop is just a shop and they exist to sell us stuff.

[@Equiluxe1]

I went into a repair shop that had a vehicle up on the ramp that had been in what would have bee a simple fender bender and just a new wing required, instead though because a bull bar was fitted it not only had a bent wing but a bent bull bar and a chassis in serious need of repair. If you need a winch on your vehicle in my experience a tirfor is far better for occasional use rather than an electric winch in a bull bar, if you need a winch several times a day you have the wrong vehicle.

[@jeffreystorer4966]

Not surprised even road train s rarely survive hitting cattle

[@doscwolny2221]

So out of curiosity, where would you be now if you didn't have that Bull bar? Your car would have crumpled to nothing, and would still be a right off What's your point? Just had a work colleague roll his car, a yaris. His car crumpled no airbags went off and the roof ended up on his door sills.. He is lucky to survive. Cars crumple far too easily, it's criminal.

[@jay-em]

@@doscwolny2221 without the bull bar be would have some extra $$ in his pocket. The engineers who design modern cars would argue they crumple just right. They are designed to absorb energy, not transfer it to the cabin.

[@matthewgruba8040]

John, you gently discouraged me from getting a bull bar when you helped me buy a Triton, and now I can imagine your sigh of exasperation as I went ahead with the idea anyway. Having exchanged the tub for a service body, I am now looking to reduce weight on the vehicle to make room for working payload, and this may be the next item to get dumped in that effort. Thanks again for taking the time to lay it all out. Another excellent video. EDit Watching this for the second time, I am convinced. Yeah, I know, I am slow. The steel bugger is coming off.

[@scrigethesecond]

John, I'm a paramedic in Southern Queensland, have worked in FNQ as well I've attended many accidents where vehicles hitting roos/pigs deploy airbags, causing secondary accidents that are far more serious than the initial impact Hard to hedge against an unknown scenario Certainly for rural Australians who travel high kms, risk of hitting wildlife exceeds risk of ever being involved in a serious accident, hence why most vehicles are equipped with bullbars City driving is a different story, and I believe where your advice comes in

[@shootinbruin3614]

Thank you for bringing some sense into this conversation. While I agree that the majority of drivers would be safer without bullbars, this video is completely uncharitable to the small but real group of people who have actual uses for them. This presentation was clearly made from the point of view of someone who neither goes off-road nor regularly travels in places where the risk of animal impacts is high and help is far away.

[@scrigethesecond]

​@@shootinbruin3614 The angle of this video addresses an extremely small subset of road users who be involved in a high speed driver's side frontal offset collision where the pedal displacement causes the most significant injury... Drivers would be better off focussing on addressing the true causative factors of crashes (ultimately lack of separation from the object they collide with) due to drugs, alcohol, mobile phones, fatigue, reckless driving etc. But good luck making a video with 92k views on that topic...

[@shootinbruin3614]

@@scrigethesecond I'd say that it's prudent to address both driver behavior and vehicle design, but yes, I agree that this video is extremely narrow in scope. If overall safety was actually the concern, this video falls short and is more clickbait than public service

[@grahamcampbell9261]

Totally agree. I had a bullbar on my cabover Kenworth 40 years ago. Ran out of brakes going down a hill owing to a dodgy company trailer, hit a logging truck in front. Survived unscathed because the bullbar spread the load across the 2mm aluminium body panels (Offset frontal impact as I moved right knowing what was about to happen.). Glad for it in the day because safety in trucks was non-existant - IN THE DAY!. We've moved on and made safer vehicles that no longer use hand crank start and 'Armstrong' steering. Thank goodness for progress.

[@JoeHamelin]

Yep, back in the day I would see bullbars on semis up in Alaska where you're not protecting from a roo, but a 500kg moose. But these days, no way. I live near the Pacar test facility and have never seen one of their new trucks with a bullbar. I mean really, if they worked, it would be a factory option or required.

[@hi9580]

@@JoeHamelin semi trailer is very different to what would happen with pickup truck in a crash

[@corruptedgov8822]

Hey John Now as I live in the bush a bullbar is a essential part on my vehicle. Now I have more trees than roos and pigs however I seem to connect with roos and pigs more often. Now after seeing your report I do understand the science of what you are banging on about but I have seen and been involved with numerous altercations with stationary objects....trees a loader a tractor and a bloody poachers ( I tboned him ) vehicle at various speeds including 80 plus kph and i am still here. Impact with a tree at 60kph.....outcome Minor panal damage stuffed bullbar and managed to drive home. Vehicle was a 75 series Land Cruiser. Pretty sure I would have been dead without it. So bhp findings may be true but I will continue to fit bullbars to all my trucks and cars.....they save lives out here. Still like your show and will continue to watch but we have a difference of opinion ( due to real world accidents) on this one.

[@Mark_Bridges]

I agree. At least half of my driving is in rural areas at night. I encounter kangaroos much more than trees or city pedestrians. I'm keeping my bar, plus it holds the extra lights required to see the roos far enough ahead.

[@wiretamer5710]

And all of your word salad is based on personal anecdotes and irrational beliefs, not science. You have to run thousands of tests to eliminate all the variables.

[@wiretamer5710]

If you are driving with the idea of hitting Roos, you are driving too fast! Fundamental principle of responsible driving is to always be in a situation where you can AVOID a collision, not survive a collision.

[@Mark_Bridges]

@@wiretamer5710 You sound like someone who hasn't driven in roo country much, or perhaps not much at night. Have you ever had a roo come at you from directly behind an oncoming car, so you couldn't see it until it was metres in front of you? Just as you're flicking high beam back on, there it is two metres in front of you. That was the last one I hit about 15 years ago. What are you going to do, slow to 50 km/hr every time you pass a car going the other way? No, me either. I fully agree with driving carefully, and that has worked for 30 years on all except that one occasion, but being sensible and careful can't eliminate the risk completely. I'm not arguing with the points John made in his video. He's correct for the vast majority of people who fit bullbars for show on newer vehicles with otherwise good crash protection for the occupants. And I fully understand John's points, as I have an engineering degree like John has. However, for a few people who hardly ever drive in cities near pedestrians and regularly drive past roos, the arguments for bullbars are stronger than the arguments against. I'm still keeping mine.

[@corruptedgov8822]

@@wiretamer5710 Well I guess you got all the time in the world hey? So you think I should drive at 20kph over 200klm? Hmm you sir are a idiot

[@ronnohall2380]

I understand that JC is trying to make people think twice about if they need a Bullbar, but pointing to a 11Yo crash report isn’t really relevant in 2023. There’s been a lot of improvement in both Vehicle Safety Design and also Bullbar design in that period. As many on this forum have pointed out BHP and most Tier 1 that I’ve felt I with install bullbars. However they are more commonly using Plastic and Alloy bars from what I’ve seen, so a question for @AutoExpert, would an Alloy or Plastic bar being more flexible be a compromise to improve Passenger safety over a steel bar and still provide improved protection in the event of an animal strike?

[@BradGryphonn]

But John. John. Where the hell am I going to mount my 70 000lb winch, 1000W spotties, 50 000 Lumen lightbar, 3-metre CB aerial, and my bloody rod holders?!

[@shenghan9385]

Hahaha

[@brenton2561]

Yeah, and what if I need to push a tree over??!!

[@BradGryphonn]

@@brenton2561 Yeah. That too.

[@grantlouw3182]

Exactly

[@Hoop-pi6dp]

On the roof!

[@benreid7567]

As a person who owns and drives three vehicles, one with bullbar and two without with most of my driving done in rural areas I can certainly attest to the benefits of having one as opposed to not having one. I have on several occasions been unfortunate enough to hit several kangaroos with my vehicles despite driving carefully and attentively. I can certainly say that in the vehicles without bullbars they suffered enough damage, approximately $3000 to warrant the fitting of a bullbar to prevent subsequent panel and cooler package damage. I believe that the idea of fitting a bullbar is not to use the vehicles as a battering ram but to give much needed protection to the vulnerable areas such as cooling and steering components. In certain situations especially in remote areas this can be the difference between life and death. Planning your trip and defensive driving should also be a part of your journey management. Vehicle manufacturers should also be building vehicles with better protection in place. If you have a look at most vehicles now they only have a very flimsy plastic grille that will do little if nothing to prevent damage to the cooling system and steering components. So before we start throwing ourselves down and wailing and gnashing our teeth let's think about the bullbars real reason for existing was to lessen the damage to your vehicle in the event of an animal strike instead of leaving you stranded on the side of the road.

[@nordic5490]

Yup, no one in remote areas are going to be driving around without a bar

[@McRcFly]

I agree and what about if you "need" a winch? Also at the end of the day yeah i am sure alot of ppl don't need bullbars but i feel there is many arguments for having a bullbar also.

[@1Longranger]

My work involved a lot of remote, rural travel and can attest that without a bullbar I would have been stranded in a remote area several times. That bullbar can be a lifesaver in those circumstances.

[@McRcFly]

@@1Longranger no doubt mate. I think john is a bit of a troll "sometimes" 🤣👍

[@stevel9914]

What you state is simply common sense... it's clearly of great benefit when you may be in a situation where you may hit something like a "bull as per the name" and that is what the item is designed for. Obviously if you only drive around towns ... the benefit is less obvious and may even be problematic (eg pedestrians). Videos like these always seem ot be down to the lowest common denominator for people with no common sense. I seem to recall this fella advocating for even less than 00.04% co2 as well. Click bait fella and I guess I contributed on this occasion

[@philip4846]

I am also a mech engineer with a 4x4. For years I have been trying to convince my friends that bull bars are not a good idea. Most have no understanding of what crumble zone means and how controlled deceleration will affect what happens to you in an accident. Only to experience much derision about that I am crazy. Finally I have some external evidence. Thanks heaps.

[@nickbouvy6524]

You need smarter friends

[@nickbouvy6524]

@@danejames7098 either you can’t recognise a typo or that is the height of your witt

[@nomercyinc6783]

if you reinforce your vehicle to not crumple. you dont need to stupidly replace your vehicle. bullbars do not decrease safety.

[@nickbouvy6524]

@@nomercyinc6783 🤦

[@peelypeelmeister6432]

What do you attach a winch to?

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

I researched this exact topic when purchasing my most recent ute. That was nearly three years ago and the unsupported information was enough to convince me not to purchase one as an option, due to safety concerns. And by the way, I live in a rural area and roos are a real concern. The clincher for me, however, was the bottom line. A factory roo bar for my vehicle was $3500 dollars. My insurance excess is one fifth of that at $700. That's five road kills before I'd break even. I've hit one kangaroo in 34 years. I'm not worried about losing my no claim bonus if I hit another one or two.

[@stuarthancock571]

Except it can take months for front end spare parts to reach the crash repair shop, and your stuck driving around with vehicle looking like the busted face of a bulldog.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

@@stuarthancock571 Did you watch the video?

[@davidvanderklauw]

" A factory roo bar for my vehicle was $3500 dollars". That sounds like a rip-off. How could such a price be justified?

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

@@davidvanderklauw Sounds like a rip-off to me, too. And no, it can't be justified. That was the price quoted in the Mazda parts catalogue. If my memory serves me correctly (it often doesn't!), ARB's product was about $1100 cheaper at $2400. Needless to say, I've got the most boring ute in town, here. No roo bar, no driving lights, no antennas, no mags, no anything! Steel tray, ladder racks and a tow bar. Oh, I almost forgot, it's also 2wd.

[@HebrewHammerArmsCo]

Hell, I've collected a dozen roos in one night heading out to my property from the coast..

[@benomeara2315]

While I agree with most of what you say during my 11 years of working at arb building bullbars I saw the introduction of impact absorbers which effectively gave back that negated crumple zone. Each bull bar model had its own specific impact absorber supplied that were also built in house.

[@analactica]

Clearly stated in one documentary , about ARB in particular

[@kimnewburn1]

But has ARB done testing and published the results?

[@nomercyinc6783]

what good is a bash bar if your not going to bash. appearance mods are fucking stupid

[@idiggold]

No, because no one would buy them if they published the results.

[@tim9241]

If that worked, ARB would provide data and triumphantly post it everywhere online. Silence says a thousand words here…

[@trentthomas1635]

Pumping out the video's the last few days. As a side note, my wife just told me of all the video's I watch, she hates you the most. So well done.

[@hiluxbloke1]

As a BHP employee I can confirm that BHP once again fit steel bulbars as standard fitment. ( At least on our particular mine site ) Side note current fleet is latest generation IZUZU D-MAX.

[@gemmas3172]

Yeah but they would be Isuzu OEM bars right? This report is damning against AFTERMARKET bars and their report conclusion is "Prohibit installation of aftermarket equipment to 5 Star NCAP vehicles".

[@ultimateiphonedng8756]

I’m glad you mentioned pedestrians and other road users. Four years ago whilst riding my pushbike through a roundabout a bull bar equiped Toyota Hilux accelerated into me from the left side. It was doing around 40 kph at the point of impact. Net result, despite evasive action on my part I was thrown across the roundabout and seriously injured. My life has been severely impacted by the event and I live with chronic pain. Would the severity have been less had the vehicle not been equipped with a bull bar? I suspect the answer is yes. Of course the vehicle was undamaged by the impact so I guess there’s a gold lining somewhere.

[@pan6593]

Bullbars on new vehicles are forbidden in GER for that reason (might even be a EU thing, but am not sure). Also a reason for all the massive use of plastic bumpers all around front and rear, so a smaller hit could end without cracking bones, whereas if you hit pipes of steel, well, what do I tell you. My best to you, hope you can somehow deal with it.

[@gjjohnso]

I was also hit while cycling through a roundabout. Fortunately a sedan without a bullbar got me and even though the car was going slowly at under 40kmhr my bike and I still flew through the air for at least 6m. Until you experience it first hand, I don't think most people understand how much energy is tied up in a moving passenger vehicle. I got out of it pretty good, but a bull bar could have made it a lot worse, especially when you consider all the loops something or someone could get hooked up on. I came to a dead stop in my accident, but I couldn't imagine what it would have been like if I was hooked on to the bull bar and being dragged along the road.

[@ozwasp]

Two things: Riding on the road is a dangerous habit, as the other vehicles are all larger with much more momentum. If you expect people to see you and/or arrogant, then you become the definition of a temporary citizen

[@oldtimefarmboy617]

@@ozwasp Modern roads are built for motor vehicles, not bicycles. You and your bicycle are small and much harder to see. So if you are incapable of obeying the rules of the road, like going the posted speed, and performing all of the necessary signaling to let people in cars know what you are about to do, stay on the side roads where traffic is light and speeds are slower or ride in the barrow ditch where motor vehicles do not normally travel.

[@oldtimefarmboy617]

@@pan6593 Those "plastic bumpers" are not the actual bumper. They are a combination of styrofoam and plastic designed to fit over a plain metal bar that is suppose to help with the absorption of crash forces. That makes it impossible to help someone by pushing them with your bumper to get them off the road without causing damage or to someplace safe to park. It also provides some cushion to a pedestrian or a bicyclist that an exposed metal bumper would not. It is not much of a cushion but every little bit helps in an accident.

[@murraym1533]

There's a couple of points worth contending here John. It is never wise to swerve for an animal on a country road as has been suggested precisely for the reason of stability. I have personally hit a significant number of animals in my driving career, simply due to the large number of k's travelled, but i never swerve. I have up to this point simply braked as hard as the vehicle can and reduced collision speeds to as low as possible. I have fitted one bullbar only to my vehicle in its lifetime and to this point it is intact, as is the vehicle, 14 years later. The damage that has been prevented, including possibly being stranded by a feral boar at 1AM in the morning has been significant enough reason for me to keep it. You make a good point regarding oblique collision with solid immovable objects, fair enough. The crash testing as described is performed at an impact speed of 64 km/hr, lends weight to the argument that reducing speed as much as possible in a straight line is most likely to achieve the best outcome overall. Independently of the myriad of other popular accessories, the bullbar, during braking generally sits below centre of mass and increses the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight on the front suspension, possibly improving the braking result if obviously the dampers are not worn or poorly matched aftermarket items. As a separate issue, I witnessed my younger brother try to make a turn on his pushbike in front of a toyota bus in the early 90's. The tubular bullbar fitted to this bus provided a nicely instinctive grab hold for my brother whilst his pushbike went under the wheels. I believe that all present were stunned but relieved, the significant bruising turned out to be better than other possibilities. Perhaps I could suggest that some drivers do choose to fit a bullbar for ego purposes only and really don't consider their driving technique once the "shield" protects them. I personally always fit a bullbar to my traveling vehicles. So far my experience is positive, I have not been stranded, hoping for help that might never come, especially since phones don't always work. I take onboard the point about pedal box incursions and will add that to my psyche.

[@partymanau]

I asked my mate about the crumple zones in his 57 Chev. he said "I use other people's"

[@jasonfields2793]

The bull bar was designed to mitigate vehicle disabling damage in remote areas where communications and assistance are limited or non existent. For this purpose they are somewhat effective but at a cost.

[@JeremyTaylorNZ]

They are an anachronism. Instead of preparing for a minor vehicle-vs-animal incident by fitting bullbars, it would be better to prepare by accessorizing the vehicle with survival equipment and supplies and modern long-range communication equipment. That way when you do hit a roo, you have some equipment you can rely on; gamble on bullbars and you might still end up disabled, but without comms and without supplies.

[@oldbloke204]

@@JeremyTaylorNZ Why does it have to be either/or? Anyone with any intelligence will have said communications and a plan and supplies in place anyway. I would be interested to see how little it would take to disable a modern 4wd with all the plastic and necessary mechanical items just behind it in the event of hitting a roo or the like. Looking at where all the bits an pieces are on my Pajero Sport I would suggest it wouldn't take much of an impact at all.

[@jasonfields2793]

@Jeremy Taylor that's the luxury of modern times where a satellite phone or epirb is a viable reliable solution. Appropriate survival gear for remote travel is a non-negotiable. Being able to limp your damaged vehicle out is a luxury.

[@grahamcampbell9261]

@@JeremyTaylorNZ "Back in the day" Mobile phones and satellite phones didn't exist. But they should be outlawed these days.

[@rustymozzy]

@grahamcampbell9261 Okay, you are sleeping soundly one night, and a lightning strike takes out your electronics. You're not going to reach anyone on any radio now. I drive up with my satellite adapter on my mobile phone. You want me to tell you to wait until I go to a town one day and let them know that someone might need help? Or, should I make a simple phone call? I'd prefer if someone turns up in an emergency if they're more prepared than me rather than less, especially if someone has been injured, sick, or needs recovery. Satellite phones actually mean less resources are wasted looking for people who aren't lost, but their family or friends are concerned. Satellite phones can give immediate pinpoint information to search and rescue. I really struggle to think why you would suggest they should be illegal. If anything, they should be required equipment in some circumstances.

[@jamiehoward7478]

I remember covering this in trade school almost 30 years ago. Why spend millions on developing a crumple zone if you're going to put a hard inflexible object on the front of it? After-market products hold a curious fascination to me - mostly because a lot seem to be absolutely useless to a ute or 4WD wagon that will never leave a formed road.

[@alanhilder1883]

The furthest off road that 90% of off road vehicles go is off the road, onto the concrete driveway into the shed.

[@dh2032]

@@alanhilder1883 and most wouldn't even drive on grass verge, to let small lesser off road wavy, cars pasted, for not wanting get grass stains on the tyres, would radar have you near drive of cliff to get past them?

[@kingjulian1549]

Yes and how many folks who own dual cab utes would know how to engage low range? And why would they need to. Even tricky 4x4ing doesn't usually need low range or diff locks to get up a steep incline.

[@adolthitler]

Well I love them. I hit roos endlessly. Even with a bullbar I'm endlessly replacing indicators and headlights. After a few years the car fails rego because of cumulative damage from side impacts where roos run into me.

[@alanhilder1883]

Many, many ( many ) years ago there was a trucking company that found " Shue Roo " ( don't know the spelling ) and decided that no more bullbars, Shue Roos instead. They were powered, but broadcast some frequency that was ment to "scare off" the roos. Haven't seen or heard of Shue Roos for a long time. I have seen plastic whistles that claim much the same ( not many of those out in the country either )

[@frankfox4366]

Bullar manufacturers going to be very upset. You had better be careful your brakes don't fail.

[@skinnytroopy]

Don’t drink any tea with your ARB mates. 🤢

[@karlso7314]

Your comment at the end really sold it for me. If the aftermarket industry had any evidence that fitting their products makes a vehicle safer then it would be up in lights and would be advertised at every opportunity. I have now changed my mind on my plans to have a bull bar fitted to my vehicle and will leave it as it is. Thank you for this information. I find this all very sobering to think about as a traffic controller who has to be very aware of what’s coming at me at any given moment. The majority of vehicles on the road do have Bull bars fitted nowadays and they still don’t seem to understand that your speed is my safety. I also don’t want you ploughing into the digger in the middle of the road and bleeding out because your BB displaced your pedals but yeah I’m just here standing in the sun all day to ruin your day by holding you up for a few mins until it’s safe to let you through the work zone!

[@nordic5490]

Ahhh... I have hit maybe 15 roos, with damage ranging from a small dent and indicator, to $4k in a hire car without a roo bar. One hit with the steel bar was square on at 110kmh, a big roo, and a big hit. Only damage was an indicator mounted in the bar. That hit would have stopped our trip without a bar. Bars work in the bush. I was a surveyor in central Oz and all over the NT. Pretty much every vehicle in remote areas has a bar, with good reason. Even the community busses. If you need a bar fit one. If you dont need a bar, don't fit one. Simple. Sometimes 6 river crossings in a day, where momentum is the key, to not getting stuck. A bar could save you from a submerged object. Heavy steel bar + winch makes the roo the crumple zone.

[@brianheard4565]

Your point about, for example, ARB not telling you about crash testing they have done or not, so obviously they would have told you if the result was positive is totally true. Roll on dude, keep up the good work!

[@bushmagpie3312]

If they’re so bad why has FORD worked with them for new Ranger? If it compromised the vehicle would they still do it? ARB are fitted as standard by many dealers before licensing and do them as part of warranty.

[@davidb1630]

ARB never has been and probably never will be anything but crap. It is the pretend boys' 4WD equipment. Real men smoke TJM, oh sorry real men fit TJM EQUIPMENT. Built tough for Australia, or some car.

[@Ghryst]

@@bushmagpie3312 popularity makes for a profitable item, effective or not. bullbars have huge profit margins on them, and if a fool wants to buy one, someone will sell them one. and why are you invoking the subject of warranty, which requires a level of after-sales service, when you're talking about Ford??

[@bushmagpie3312]

@@Ghryst the vlog was about safety didn’t hear much about profit. All current utes are offered with bullbars which are warranted. If they effect the vehicle stability and safety they wouldn’t install or advertise the let alone warrant them due to lawyers and public backlash. Due to publicity of bad rep they will loose so they only add items which don’t impede the vehicle spec.

[@Ghryst]

​@@bushmagpie3312 it is current year. popularity and image trumps horror stories. no one wants to admit they got shitcanned while trying to keep up with the Jones'. your argument is invalid. as a person who installs bullbars, in a small regional city, at an authorised dealership for a living, almost all of them try the warranty claim eventually. some we pay for (only if we installed it wrong), most we dont (cos we almost always instal them right). i mean for starters, you can kiss your cooling systems warranty goodbye if you put 7" or larger lights on the bar inside the hoops, obstructing airflow. the newer cars you cant even instal aftermarket lights (only the factory, inbuilt-light-bar lights) because they block the radar systems = instant warranty and insurance claim killer. and most of the cars we sell (all major brands except Toy's, including some the US/European brands, good luck with ANY kinda warranty claim with american brands), have an engineering-imposed 80kg added weight limit on the front impact system (the specs dont change much monocoque vs chassis vehicle), so there goes the warranty with any steel hoop bars. mazda are the only brand that even tries to keep the customer happy, by imposing an immediate wheel alignment adjustment if any kind of bullbar is fitted to thier bt50's.. otherwise once again, no warranty claim if it aint done. mazda incidentally, is also the only company that has a "factory bullbar" option not made by an independent 3rd party, and wholly designed in-house.. so to say "All current utes are offered with bullbars" is disingenuous at best, as its not a dealership warrant, its a 3rd party warranty, which good dealerships will negotiate on your behalf, no guarantees. remember - the only thing thats really gonna ruin your bars (lets ignore your cooling system, suspension and tracking for a second) is a crash, and crashes are absolutely NOT warranty issues. even with a truely "factory" bar like the BT50s', i hope you declared the dealership modification to your insurer and are enjoying the higher premiums, you wont be covered if you didnt.

[@americarsqueensland1667]

In response to points made at 16:35 Bull Bars are essential in many country regions. You just can't have a vehicle without a Bullbar unless you are willing to repair or replace the front of your vehicle several times a due to damage from hitting Kangaroos! Also, a well designed Bullbar will keep said Kangaroo from either going under the car and possibly cause steering interference and loss of control OR said Kangaroo coming over the bonnet into the windscreen and cabin!. Bullbars are A MUST HAVE in some country areas as they increase occupant safety in these environments. You certainly DON'T need a Bullbar in large Cities. If you really want to do a comprehensive crash text comparison include Kangaroo impacts. AT 20:38 regarding avoiding crashes, you often can't avoid a hitting a Kangaroo by steering around it, that is a great way to lose control, you should simply brake hard.

[@eds4wdcamping]

Good evening John, great report, but what you need to add to this video is the Bin camera. Just for light entertainment.

[@rais1953]

Driving from Perth to Sydney many years ago in a fragile Chrysler (Mitsubishi) Galant we found ourselves driving at night in western NSW. Roos crossing every few hundred metres. We had the choice of stopping when we weren't tired or risking a roo strike. If we stopped we would cover no distance. We decided to keep going at 40 km/h, minimising the risk of a strike because we could stop quickly whenever we needed to. That way instead of covering no distance we covered 200 km in 5 hours. Better than nothing and almost as safe as stopping.

[@angelotsi849]

I have done the same thing in the Flinders Ranges. I did not go over 80km/h and I was able to slow down and avoid all the Roo's. Another thing I did was to drive with low beams on as that does not startle or stun the kangaroos and they can move out of the way. A mate who was in the army told me about the low beams & 80km/h as that is what they were limited to at night when he was based in the NT.

[@Maverick-cl2lt]

Hi John, It has taken me a while to think about this reply. I am the replyer you least want: degree in engineering (mechanical), Trade qualified boilermaker, owner of a large 4WD with a ARB bullbar. Firstly, I agree with your opinion on city use. There is no reason whatsoever to have a bullbar on a city-bound 4WD. However, they are essential where I live. I am only 2.5 hours from the centre of Brisbane and If I travellelled between my standard routes daily I would be off the road waiting for tows at least two times a week. Then there's the more sinister stat. Late last year one of my workmates was killed by a kangaroo entering the cabin of his vehicle at speed. Nice guy with a young family. A decent bullbar would probably have prevented this (yes, my professional opinion).

[@ggbogo935]

listen to this fucken beard stroker haha

[@dirkbindemann1852]

I used to drive a lot in bush area in Africa where no roads excited and therefore to protect the body of my vechile, I fitted a bushbar with good results. I therefore think you should differentiate between the guy who is using his vechile once in a while for off-road and people that use their vechiles for a special purpose.

[@DrakeN-ow1im]

I did here a mention about particular needs somewhere along the line.

[@101spirited]

What special purpose outweighs living in the event of an accident?

[@dirkbindemann1852]

@@101spirited As a land surveyor for 50 years, I have travelled millions of kilometers with 1 Jeep, 2 Chev C20, 2 Ford F250, 1 Range Rover, 2 Land Rovers, 8 Hilux, 7 Land Cruisers. All the Toyotas had Bush/Bull bars and most of the others didn't even came out with safety belts. I fitted one C20 with safety belts to stop my assistent from bouncing when driving in the Kalahari dunes. I had driven all these vechiles in rugged areas and never had a serious accident. The bush bars protected my vechiles' lights, radiators and most of the body parts. I can appreciate the good technical advice from the car expert, but it all depends on how and where you drive and what the purpose is of all the extras on your vechile. PS. His advice might safe a life, but not a sole.

[@adamm3172]

The key word here is "risk assessment " ok, that's two words that

[@andys31337]

I got the Mitsubishi factory alloy bar, it is lightweight and results in less hassle if hitting a wallaby at low speed, a regrettably common occurrence around here. Without any protection you get cracked bodywork, headlights and risk a leaking radiator

[@Hoop-pi6dp]

Sensible compromise sir.

[@andys31337]

manufacturers should just sell nudge bars with lights and a winch, that's what most bullbar buyers really want

[@Alan.livingston]

@@andys31337 agreed. I’ve done a lot of outback and was happy enough with my nudge bar for warding off stray Roos. Only ended up swapping it for a steel bullbar so I could get a winch.

[@franciscoparra3818]

Thank you John for this report. I have a 2016 Isuzu D-Max 4x4. No bull bar and no roof racks and yet I still have fun with it off road. No dead weight on the roof (which alters my center of gravity) and no dead weight ahead of the front wheels that alters the driving dynamics of the car. And still I can go to the same places other 4x4 vehicles go that do have these accessories. You have confirmed my decision of not fitting a bull bar to my car was the right decision all along. Many thanks for this report.

[@alexfrankl7861]

You wont go where i go without a winch, you wont be going anywhere with a deer or roo wedged in the grill.

[@larrybe2900]

You stand the same risk as anyone else of an encounter that would cripple yours.

[@alexfrankl7861]

@@larrybe2900 disagree on that one

[@tomnewham1269]

@@alexfrankl7861 how often do you hit kangaroos?

[@Jason-rs6co]

not having a bullbar and winch wont stop you getting into place but it may very well stop you getting out

[@bentaxelrod]

Thanks John. Well done. I’ve spent my life telling people this and just making myself unpopular and making enemies. People and authorities tragically won’t listen to engineers and scientists enough. The Australian design rules are very comprehensive and difficult to comply with but manufacturers do comply, then you can just buy an fit a bull bar and negate all of that work. It does my head in!

[@nordic5490]

I have hit maybe 15 roos, with damage ranging from a small dent and indicator, to $4k in a hire car without a roo bar. One hit with the steel bar was square on at 110kmh, a big roo, and a big hit. Only damage was an indicator mounted in the bar. That hit would have stopped our trip without a bar. Bars work in the bush. I was a surveyor in central Oz and all over the NT. Pretty much every vehicle in remote areas has a bar, with good reason. Even the community busses. If you need a bar fit one. If you dont need a bar, don't fit one. Simple. Sometimes 6 river crossings in a day, where momentum is the key, to not getting stuck. A bar could save you from a submerged object. Heavy steel bar + winch makes the roo the crumple zone.

[@bentaxelrod]

@@nordic5490 No one said that didn’t work against Roos. I spent many years driving out in West Queensland. A friend and his wife spent 3 months in hospital after being hit in their commodore by a land cruiser with a bull bar because the bar hit an area of the Commodore it wasn’t designed for. It broke their legs and damaged their hips. Another friend’s nephew was T-boned and hit his head on the bull bar in town. Bull bars don’t conform to the Australian design rules and haven’t been tested to see what damage they do to other cars.

[@Jason-rs6co]

they dont listen because its a stupid comment as are the ancap requirements. why on earth you need half the add ons they ask for i will never know. automatic braking and lane assistance are a couple if you cant keep it in the lane you shouldnt be driving it i know this much. if ihit a kangaroo i would much rather be able to continue my journey rather than sit there with a busted radiator, people have no idea how little damage will render their vehicle inoperable

[@Jmjdit]

@@Jason-rs6co you’re going nowhere fast with your bizarre idea that ANCAP requirements are pointless.

[@Jason-rs6co]

@@Jmjdit ive managed to get this far wirhout it maybe you should learn to drive

[@Bergo101]

Genuine question: how about the alloy bars? They are much lighter (30-35kg vs. 90kg for a steel bar), they are softer in terms of allowing crumbling in, yet they still provide roo protection. Thoughts?

[@eriku6429]

I thoroughly enjoy your videos and all of the technical knowledge you impart in an easy to digest manner but this time I thought I needed to point out a few errors that you included in the medical info at around 11:30: 1. A bit pedantic (we all know you love pedantry) but the femoral artery stops above the knee. Other vessels continue down the leg but are far smaller in diameter and consequently have significantly reduced massive haemorrhage risk. 2. Internal haemorrhage sufficient to cause death requires a decent sized volume to be lost into ie. the chest, abdomen, pelvis or thigh not so much foot or lower leg. The joints of the leg act as relatively effective choke points in restricting extension of blood loss internally due to the relatively minimal soft tissue between skin and bone. 3. Any crushing force sufficient to smash the ankle and do significant vascular damage will break the skin and blood will piss out everywhere. This will render the point above moot as you can just bleed out in the usual fashion at this point. 4. Any injury that involves crush damage to the ankle sufficient to smash bone will result in a permanent loss of function (range of motion restrictions) and likely chronic pain as well. Bonus fun facts about acute compartment syndrome: - It's one of the most painful conditions you can experience and even ridiculously high doses of opioid may not make it bearable while being transported to hospital. - In the lower leg it commonly leads to permanent nerve damage and loss of function of the foot and ankle if not treated in a prompt manner. Cheers, The guy who's had to treat this sort of injury too many times

[@petesmitt]

I was hit by a car at around 80 kph, while I was walking beside my bull-bar equipped truck; I was uninjured by the initial impact but was thrown forward , with my knee colliding with the back edge of the bull-bar, completely fracturing the end of the femur without breaking the skin..

[@Hoop-pi6dp]

Thanks for your service sir and I'm sure JC will appreciate the technical clarifications. Cheers

[@jeremybean-hodges6397]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I hope to never, ever meet you during your working hours...

[@eriku6429]

@@jeremybean-hodges6397 That's perfectly sensible... When they're discharging I always tell my patients that I hope to never meet them again in a professional capacity.

[@jeremybean-hodges6397]

@@eriku6429 my fiancée is a doctor, one of our best mates is an orthopod… we see some pretty cool/terrible photos.

[@adrianrichardson233]

Understandable breakdown John, but a bit harsh on us non engineering types, when most manufacturers websites currently sell factory or factory approved bullbars, which all the ones I’ve looked at state that they have been tested and form part of their safety systems. Maybe we need some legislation in place to independently verify the manufacturers claims? Also, we are relying on some big players in this market to be honest on their claims, especially in regards to safety

[@scroungasworkshop4663]

Money usually overrides safety if they can get away with it.

[@AmitKumar-dn7gx]

They are all sold as after-market mate. That "factory approved" is just a phrase to sell that accessory to you. Even if you go with ARB or Ironman or TJM, the OEM will be fine with it. But that doesn't mean that it would negate the safety issues that come with Bull Bars.

[@pfcstuck]

I've use these bars many times, but I've never called them bull-bars. Is that an Australian term? We call them brush guards because that is what they are designed for. When a trail is overgrown you go down it slow and the brush guard pushes the relatively small brush (branches, twigs, and such) out of the way without damaging your car (especially a branch through the radiator) and without you needing to stop and cut it back. I had no clue people thought that they could be used as a sort of armor in car crashes. That just seems a bit weird to me.

[@markeroonie]

The only reasons I might want one is 1. To mount a winch. Yes. I know you are not a big fan but I have had to use one in the past a couple of times when truly out past dpc And 2. As a jacking point for a hi lift jack when bogged. Yes. I hate those too but what are the alternatives? If i didn't intend to go way past dpc then I 100% agree with everything you say.

[@grahamcampbell9261]

Sounds like you need a specialist off road vehicle, towed there on a trailer.

[@phalanx3803]

@@grahamcampbell9261 so one has to waist another $80k on another vehicle? where not all fucking rich trust fund kid's

[@philjones863]

Well that totally justifies the increased risk of death or serious injury in a collision. Did you comprehend anything he spoke about?

[@grahamcampbell9261]

@@phalanx3803 Depends what your life is worth to you. A specialised off road vehicle doesn't need to cost 80k - Unless you believe ARB.

[@phalanx3803]

@@grahamcampbell9261 you do understand a new 4x4 by its self cost $80 fucking K!!!!!! even seconds hand you looking at $50k+

[@chrislj2890]

Last year when I bought my new 2022 Toyota Tacoma (U.S.) pickup I was considering bullbars just because they look cool. But i researched them and realized that they all attach at two points with flimsy brackets, and from what I could tell in an impact it would pivot through the grill and into the radiator, causing more damage than without one. I never even considered a safety factor with these things. Anyway, I'm not big on a lot of the silly mods people do, so I just went with running boards and a roll up bed cover. Thanks for the logical info, it makes me feel like I made the right decision.

[@formulafish1536]

From my knowledge of vehicle accessories and the limited number of car accidents I have seen, Bull bars are not intended to make the crash safer, but are simply to nudge things out of your way at low speed.

[@waheedtahan2428]

Holy sh%t I didn't realize I screwed up so bad by installing a Bullbar on my Toyota SUV. Thank you for educating us on the flaws of this product.

[@iainhetherington4608]

Thanks John , although we do have a lot of scrub animals where we live I’m going to heed what you have just said, might even save $3500 or more which I can spend on comprehensive insurance , so thanks for that mate. I must admit I have often wondered about the tyres, alignments, fuel ,suspension etc. ,the extra cost because of that weight and I must admit the crumple zone on an FG Falcon Ute saved my sons life when he smacked a tree at 110. So I’m going with the insurance this time round on my new Everest when it turns up (if ever) Cheers

[@brendonsmith5029]

Fantastic report. My employer has just purchased a hilux with a bull bar to replace a less safe vehicle. I will pass the BHP report on to the critical risk team. Thank you John.

[@blobfishking9143]

I agree. My last Ute had a bull bar and saved a lot of money from hitting Roos, however I was lucky I never had a serious crash. I decided to go without the bull bar for my new Pajero Sport.

[@istp1967]

Bullbars used to be a good idea; back in the '70s and '80s, when cars didn't have airbags. But unless your rig is Pre-airbag; bullbars might still be alright. But if you got airbags, ABS and just plain Inertia-reel seat belts; bullbars are somewhat redundant.

[@anrit5972]

When I was kid my tight arse old man worked out how much extra fuel his HQ used, the next day the roo bar was removed.

[@isaac8334]

they are not made for cars they are made for heavy 45 to 65 tonns B Double and semi trailer trucks to hit animals and not break down by blowing radiator not for 2 ton 4x4 its just doesn't make sense

[@Cameron-wy6wb]

ARB say on their website "ARB bull bars are air bag compatible, which means their installation will not affect your vehicle’s crush rate and airbag triggering.". I don't think ARB would agree with what you are saying John.

[@Hoop-pi6dp]

Whilst I'm sceptical like JC that ARB products do not impede vehicle safety performance, Toyotas website says "Toyota Genuine Bull Bars are the only Bull Bars that are jointly designed with Toyota vehicle engineers to help ensure full integration with Toyota Safety Sense (TSS) for optimum occupant safety." Go genuine if you really need a bar.. Stroke, stroke.

[@terryfraser7259]

Hi John, it would be informative if you could do a deep dive into the ADR compliance that ARB and Ironman claim for their bullbars. On the face of it ADR compliance suggests that the modification will not negatively impact the crash performance of the vehicle…. But your report indicates this is not the case. I reckon over 90% of utes on the road have bullbars so how have the authorities allowed such a potentially massive safety issue to exist?

[@filjones4543]

Hi John, do you have any anecdotal thoughts on the effect of bull-bars (in the same vein of this video), on older vehicles (GU/GQ Patrols, 80/105 Landcruisers), that either didn’t come with air-bags or had presumably rudimentary safety considerations (were crumple zones designed into these vehicles)? Cheers.

[@MrAidenaiden71]

Have to agree with you on this John However as pretty much all my driving is done remotely in my triton sadly a bull bar is needed If I did city driving I would not bother with a bull bar

[@MrRandomcommentguy]

Not sure why bull bars are even legal for newer vehicles that have been designed with certain structural properties to mitigate the severity of an impact in the event of a crash? Surely bolting 100 kg of steel to the front of the vehicle will change the impact mitigation characteristics of the vehicle safety cell? Surely it will affect impact sensors that facilitate airbag deployment, which have been calibrated to trigger airbags in certain configurations depending on the nature of the impact which is detected? Why does fitting a bull bar not void the warranty of one's shitbox ute?

[@jackofjr]

Fair chance a non genuine BB will void manufacturers warranty , in-fact I know cases it has

[@vk3fbab]

Can you imagine the lobbying from the aftermarket industry. Bullbars are the gateway 4wd accessory. You then move on to awnings, side protection, rear protection winches, lockers you get the idea. 4wd are like boats. Bang On Another Thousand.

[@richardpowell1425]

I'm surprised insurance companies aren't forbidding them, since most of their costs are the medical bills.

[@goverat]

@@jackofjr warranty doesn't cover a crash

[@goverat]

@Richard Powell because some people live in area's full of kangaroos which would write a car off but don't do anything to a bullbar.

[@gill7087]

As someone who spent more than 35 years as an emergency services worker and zipped a few beard strokers into PVC bags for their second to last car ride ever I can suggest that the cause of their demise was less likely to be the bull bar on their Utes and more likely to be the hotel bar they should have left long before they did. Having said that I further suggest that one of the most popular and expensive vehicles still on the road and for sale is one of the most dangerous death traps with or without a bull bar and that is the 79 series Landcruiser Utes and wagons. They were blessed with little to no primary or secondary safety features in the 1980,s and 90,s when I was forced to drive one and they haven’t changed at all. In fact they are still around courtesy of the best marketing campaign ever run by a car company and are still beloved of the most orthodox beard strokers. Of course the cruiser Ute should have a couple of hundred kilos of steel proudly out front and almost nothing to keep you alive from behind the 400 watt kangaroo singeing driving lights right through to the end of their motorcyclist decapitating rear trays. They are the classic DAAS vehicle. (Dangerous At Any Speed) But ignorance is bliss, it says so on their gravestones, they are just full of bliss now.

[@DrakeN-ow1im]

"They are the classic DAAS vehicle. (Dangerous At Any Speed)" That is harsh. At 25 kph on a flat paddock they are not that dangerous. Anyway, speed is not dangerous - its the sudden changes of velocity which can be problematic.

[@gill7087]

@@DrakeN-ow1im Ironically you have hit the nail right on the head. They cannot accelerate or brake very well and neither can they change direction very well. This coupled with the aforementioned lack of any secondary safety features makes them travelling on a rural road with an intoxicated beard stroker at the wheel everyone’s regional nightmare.

[@jamesaustralian9829]

My bullbar has so far saved me from 3 kangaroo's worth of significant damage, and it gives me a good winch mount point to recover desk heroes like you.

[@jeremybean-hodges6397]

Isn't that his point, though? That they are good for preventing vehicular damage in case of roo strike, but bad in case of a serious accident. Your disagreement is just over priorities, that's all.

[@ggbogo935]

@@jeremybean-hodges6397 you can never speak reason into these bogan beard strokers it's absolutely a pointless task

[@soundman6645]

This all comes down to "Risk Managment", when I say that I mean in the formal sense. Yes I have done the course and have the certificate. This "Risk Management", is a highly variable thing and that is the point. There is no question, that in a reasonably recent vehicle, fitting a bullbar can, will and does reduce the "crash worthiness" of the vehicle. BUT, we then need to look at the total risk profile. So the older the vehicle the less the bullbar is going to affect, the crash worthiness of the vehicle. In a very recent vehicle, there are all sorts of systems, airbags and ABS come to mind that will be compromised by the additional rigidity and weight. THEN there are another couple of parts of the risk management profile, "probability and frequency". In the cities the probability of hitting a pedestrian is very much higher than hitting an animal, as we move away from the cities, the probability changes and in fact inverts.The further from the cities, the much less likely you are to encounter pedestrians and the very much more likely you are to encounter animals on the roads AND at higher speeds. Those who live, work or travel away from the cities, and who must travel at high risk times, will tell you that animal strikes are a part of life. Some frequent country travelers, have told me that they expect to have at least one animal strike per trip. I live close to a capitol city (less than 30kM from the GPO) and expect about 4 animal strikes a year. A couple of weeks ago, I hit a wallaby in my own street less than 100 meters from my own front gate. In my over 40 years of driving, I have never had a frontal collision with another vehicle or a fixed object under normal driving conditions. Another part of the risk management profile is " cost and consequence". Having your vehicle damaged or immobilized by a fairly light impact with an animal, can be very costly, modern vehicles with the very soft and easily damaged frontal parts and the very high prices of those parts this becomes much more than a minor inconvenience. Having a skippy come over your bonnet and thru your windscreen can definitely be life threatening, bare in mind that is what modern passenger cars are designed to do with pedestrians. Of course another variability is the weight and design of the bullbar. A big heavy steel five poster , with the optional double scrub rails will be very rigid and very heavy, But an aluminium bar without a winch mounting plate will be around a quarter the weight and will present less of a negative impact all round. THE final matter is the necessity of the bullbar as a mounting device. Modern cars are so soft and inconveniently shaped, there is no reasonable way of mounting accessories to them. When I was a young bloke, if you wanted to mount driving lights, many cars ya just drilled thru the bumper bar and bolted em down, or got creative and mounted em thru the grill. These days there is nothing you can find strong enough to hold any sort of accessory on the front of a car ....... even then there are legalities, as they would be "dangerous protrubances" So the bullbar becaomes a necessary mounting platform, for a variety of accessories. Truth to tell though, Bullbars pale into insignificance compared to the variety of additions and modifications done especially to 4wds.

[@tonysmith26]

John - well done! I’ve never had a bull bar and the only thing I’ve ever hit are locusts (lots of them) and a wombat (once). The wombat was too low for a bull bar to have made any difference. How do I manage this you ask? By not driving at dawn and dusk. A bit like not swimming in murky tidal waters north of Gladstone - never been bothered by crocs either. 🤷‍♂️

[@goverat]

I've hit roos in the middle of the day, thankfully i had a bar because i had no damage and was literally hundreds of kilometres away from the nearest town

[@LegoDork]

@@goverat I also enjoy autofellatio.

[@ggbogo935]

with this dumb beard stroking logic you may as well not drive at all and stay indoors because it's safest

[@philipmann9548]

Hi John. I’m not an engineer. But. I can hear 4wd chassis screaming in pain with the bull bar quivering up and down when driving over bumpy surfaces. Does this cause excess chassis stress and subsequent weakening?

[@rrphotography3600]

I have been planning my next dingo piss creek Explorer. Leaning to a poly bar as I still need the benefits that a factory bumper can not withstand. Winch fitment, improved approach angle, recovery points, additional driving lights and improved protection down low for skippies is essential for the driving that I do in the NT. My current car needs the bull bar as I'm one of a few that is allowed to go out and re open 4wd tracks which often involves pushing over countless small trees. But yes your correct 90% of 4wds spend their life on the road and around towns and cities and do not need this protection that they are sold on. What do you think would be the crash test results of a bull bar vs non bull bar in a scenario of a 4wd with a gvm upgrade or travelling at max gcm. Lots more mass at play. I would presume increasing the resistance of crumple zones to crumple slower would be an advantage. The force transfer of a heavier vehicle would exceed the design loads of factory crumple zones. Hence giving the occupants a greater chance of survival. This theory would probably need to be tested to determine if any negligible difference is observed. I wonder if any crash testing has been done with factory vehicles at their gvm, see how it changes the survivability.

[@tonysmith26]

Slower crumpling means higher forces on the occupants. I can’t see that working well.

[@rrphotography3600]

@@tonysmith26 say if the crumple zone is designed to slow a crash down by 0.04s in a standard unloaded vehicle. (Increasing time decreases the g force) With increased weight up to gvm, or gcm. I.e. an added 600-3700kg to stop. The crumple zone would no longer be capable of that as it would just squash without slowing the crash down by any time increment. Would my theory be wrong stating that increasing the rigidity with a bull bar will in that scenario increase the crash time and thus greatly decrease the gforce experienced by occupants.

[@Kilometrico88]

@@rrphotography3600 I really like the thought of crash testing at max weights, I bet the results are crook regardless of accessories though unfortunately. Personally I think that your theory is incorrect regardless of the weight imposed on the vehicle mate. The bullbar isn't designed to deform at all really and it changed how the vehicle distributes loads from impacts. If there were worse outcomes unladen (ie, the pedalbox getting deformed with bullbar, as opposed to not without), you can only assume that with higher loads, that this can only get worse. The more rigid the structure. The more force the people will cop. You've got a huge piece of steel being smashed into your feet. At max weights you've got a huge piece of steel being smashed into your feet with more force behind it. In the case of max gcm with a trailer articulating off the towball and sending x amount of weight off in whatever direction it ends up in, just as a mass that's grim and if it's say a fencing trailer that's top shelf danger with a shitload of loose items. Just a horrific situation that seems pretty dire every way you look at it. Factory lights are dogshit off-road and I feel that spotties are almost essential in seeing hazards on country roads. Your winch point is legitimate, and bullbars generally have a recovery point, as opposed to watching someone rip out that eyelet they use to tie the utes down in shipping because it's not rated. every single work ute I've ever used has a bullbar and so does my own Canter so in my own head too my heart screams that a ute would look shit without a bullbar and I've always felt naked driving a car at night that doesn't have one. But physics doesn't give a fuck about our feelings unfortunately. Everything we're adding on. In our cases necessary to do the work we do, has a negative effect for us in the event of a serious crash. Either way, take care mate and safe travels getting through the work you do

[@maitrikashin3906]

I have a dedicated off-road tourer 4WD. No caravan is involved. I fitted an aluminium airbag-compatible nudge bar to hold my spotlights and UHF aerial. Yes, Ive got off-road suspension fitted, but the nudge bar and lights are lightweight (pun intended), so its not front-heavy. I had some side steps fitted as well to help me get to the MaxTrax up on the roof. I knew the manufacturer Max weight roof stipulations beforehand and I am well under that - and well under GVM as well, even when fully loaded. The side steps were fitted professionally by ARB. After a big lap (including via Dingo Creek), one of those side steps broke off. Must have been a rock strike north of Innamincka. So I took both the side steps off. This has returned my ground clearance to very good. Unfortunately that also revealed some bolt holes put into my ladder frame chassis where ARB had connected those bloody side steps. So a fierce clean and a can of Rust Prevention spray later, I was good to go. I take your point... every modification compromises the original engineering. After almost 250,000 kms of mostly solo touring around OZ in my 4WD, I've never had an animal strike or an accident. I've used those extra lights heaps because the OE candles at the front are useless. I have used the UHF even more so - sometimes to get help for other travellers. Sure, the lights and UHF could have been fitted to the roof, but I chose not to. I'm on my 2nd PLB (the first EPIRB expired), an excellent/imperative backup for remote touring, but they've never been used. I've never needed a winch. The recovery point tow hitch mount has had a couple of successful outings. I think if you ever go to a 4WD Camping show, you’ll find heaps of dodgy aftermarket gear being pushed, and some very dodgy (illegal) suspension lifts on some of those high profile presenters' show cars. Off-road touring is about the experience. Many 4WD KZbinrs are just professional entertainers prostituting themselves...

[@djjames6576]

What you say makes sense, and if you reside in the cities even more so. Try telling anyone who lives west of the Great Dividing Range, or in remote Qld, NT, SA or WA or any interstate truckie not to fit one though. Aside from fitting a bullbar to protect the car, many purchase them to mount winches, driving lights, or a UHF antenna. I do reminisce of the d 5 posters on a Holden Ute at your local B&S Ball.

[@FishyFelix]

I had a pedestrian on bmx bicycle with no brakes, she came down a blind bend hill and crashed into the front of my 2 month old Jeep. Had the original stock soft plastic bumpers still on it. She was going about 15km/hr, she literally bounced off my front bumper and did not suffer a single scratch to her person in the accident. Had she decided to wait a couple weeks, she would’ve encountered my new aftermarket steel bumper with 2x 1inch thick huge recovery hooks and a winch to hit her head on. Looking at my new bumper with eyes opened, I’ve turned my Jeep into a pedestrian maiming machine.

[@freda5344]

stupid pedestrian, Murphy didn't get its way that day, thats all.

[@georgecurrenti]

Thanks John… in a previous company I worked for it was mandated by our “Safety Officer” that all company Utes were to be fitted with a bullbar. At the time it made sense since most of the travel we did was on rural roads to remote sits. Plus I had faith in the safety compliance of the aftermarket manufacturers - sadly I may be wrong. It makes sense the crumble zone of the vehicle is reduced and the impact is concentrated down the chassis. It’s also sad after leaving the company I purchased the Ute, bullbar and all. 😟

[@lynndonharnell422]

Was the safety Stalinist one the ones mandating little yellow caps for wheel nuts so you can tell if the wheels nuts are unwinding. Just to fact check this nonsense, I shifted a cap or 2 which if checked would tell the person inspecting that they were in imminent danger. Caps stayed in wrong position for weeks. Also the mandate of using wheel chocks on a site that was completely flat was another level of insanity.

[@Agent.K.]

@@lynndonharnell422 Hey come on we have to follow regulations 😅

[@januszpolt5166]

I'm IT who did support BHP Billiton and I can say safety is VERY critical for BHP operation around the globe so I would believe what they say.

[@bushmagpie3312]

Great discussion points but you only highlighted the finer negative of bullbar. They were initially designed to reduce damage to front vehicles. BHP report 2012, what was the total weight of the vehicle against a standard. Having worked in mining for 20yrs +, the vehicles have GVM upgrades to stay within weight limits due to the addition mining spec and only 4 people can travel in Hilux dual cab. Heavy car more damage at same velocity. (Newtons law). Not all current vehicles on mine have bullbars but vehicles which travel remote of the mine into outback bush have light bullbar as standard. Mine vehicles are also normally speed limited. In this post more beard strokers talking about SAT phone. They don’t work all the time in every area. I can also see your beard strokers haven’t driven at dawn or dusk or long drives. Travel during day does restrict distance but will reduce chance of strikes. If you travel freq to outback have a light alum bullbar. Your information about crumple zones, look at the mounting plates of new bulbars they are made from corrugated soft metal to crumple in strike or incident. They are also designed to push animal under car, old design was to deflect or stop. Any increase in weight plays with the stability which you failed to advise but the manufacture should have tuned the stability of the vehicle to the GVM. I know your a fan of Mitsubishi but look at the wheel placement of rear axle, fill your Ute tray up to full weight spread over the entire tray and see how your steering and stability is, probably steers like a boat.

[@DavidMartinAustralia]

"Any increase in weight plays with the stability which you failed to advise...". Did you make it to 20'30". Also, "...the manufacture(sic) should have tuned the stability ... to the GVM" Meaning they don't tune it to the GVM? What DO they tune it to? (Assuming you mean the vehicle manufacturer, because the after market manufacturers are unable/unwilling to do ANY tuning. Hell, they have trouble getting mounting holes to line up. And what permutations would a vehicle manufacturer need to consider?)

[@bushmagpie3312]

@@DavidMartinAustralia in many manufacture articles they don’t explain how they tune the stability control units. The SSM to achieve ADR compliance need to load the vehicle to full GVM and complete emergency braking and swerve testing. Another point I failed state is a lot the car components aren’t from manufacture but are only assembled onto the vehicle. So everyone’s idea of SSM people adding to vehicle isn’t really valid. Example: wiring, connectors, electronics, media players, ECU, gearbox etc all outside companies. JC also failed to mention Toyota, Mazda, isuzu, Nissan have so called factory bars available for there vehicles and there in there sales brochures. Nissan PRO4X has a standard bullbar and you can’t option it without it. If all this was so bad manufacturers, would make these avail as a manufacture option if there is a chase it will damage the vehicle ie cooling. These aren’t TJM, ARB or any others one. FORD has even artnered with ARB on development.

[@stevenhobbs709]

Fellow bogan here, I’ve still got my hot Holden ute but I’ve never felt the need for a bull bar despite living in rural Australia, now I’m off to plan my next 253 build, thanks John.

[@kylehoffschildt731]

Awesome video John. I remember working out in centrel queensland when BMA implemented these changes, rather controversial at the time, but I makes sense especially with all the serious accidents in those area's. It's easy to replace a vehicle, not so much bringing someone back to life.

[@Romeo-kp8tc]

There's a lot of comments from people who don't live or work in country full of roos, I've worked and travelled a lot at night, Roos in plague proportions, I hit a full size buck, in my 100 series, Bull bar allowed me to continue my journey with some damage, Many years ago I owned a 60 series with Bull Bar made by a independent elderly gent in Mt Isa , It was designed to deflect the roo down and off to the side, It work very well, My Brother in law had one fitted to his 83 Sahara, it saved him early one morning, hitting a large roo at 100kms per hour, no damage, No one wants to hit any animals , but this is Australia, Live in the bush full time.

[@bimma320]

John, good report. One thing to point out is BHP still fit bullbars to mine spec vehicles. They stopped fitting ROPS to LVs as you pointed out around 2013/14

[@Hoop-pi6dp]

Yep, they sure do, but they stick to manufacturers supplied accessories only. It seems most, including JC have missed that point made in the said report. As a general rule, aftermarket bullbar is bad, genuine manufacturer tested and fitted ok! From Toyota website "Toyota Genuine Bull Bars are the only Bull Bars that are jointly designed with Toyota vehicle engineers to help ensure full integration with Toyota Safety Sense (TSS) for optimum occupant safety." Just sayin for the beard strokers, that's all.

[@bimma320]

@@Hoop-pi6dp in the Pilbara the BHP vehicles are fitted with aftermarket trays and bullbars from PMG

[@nordic5490]

Every mine vehicle I have seen in fitted with a bar

[@mathewwills7891]

@@Hoop-pi6dp Like all the influencers, he never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.

[@batmanlives6456]

I’ve worked for BHP in the Pilbara and bullbars are still on em…

[@bowenpollard1911]

Wouldnt it be just as likley to advance air bag timming from a bull bsr due to the "increased change in inertia"

[@darrylrichards5368]

The only issue I have with this is the use of a 10 year old report on a previous generation or 2 vehicle model

[@Hoop-pi6dp]

And no mention of what is on current Toyota website "Toyota Genuine Bull Bars are the only Bull Bars that are jointly designed with Toyota vehicle engineers to help ensure full integration with Toyota Safety Sense (TSS) for optimum occupant safety." Stroke on!

[@frozbiggins]

Its not just BHP John. Every single LV on a mine site in OZ has a bull bar and ROPS fitted.

[@towarzyszbeagle6866]

I'm interested to hear where things like smart bars fall in this equation.

[@paulsven7923]

ROPS and bull bars raise the centre of gravity, the other problem with some of these vehicles is that the suspension and spring rates are not altered to suit the new weight and change in vehicle dynamics

[@Paulman50]

I agree, I removed the winch from my Landcruiser because it altered the handling.

[@LoremIpsum1970]

I remember the days before crumple zones, the fact that you could have an engine block where your legs were is something I'm glad we're done with.

[@aussiebaz5363]

One of the best you've done John. Excellent. Makes perfect sense. Your last explanation involving defensive driving, or knowing what to do when a roo bounds from the darkness was a tad annoying, considering reaction time and trees lining the road, but with this episode, you presented the real facts. Well done. Thank you.

[@matthewpeterson5281]

It is nice to see someone addressing this. Makes absolute sense to me. These push bars basically take steel frame like rigidity and put it out somewhere it was not designed to be. It seems all too obvious that it will mess up how forces are dispersed in a major accident. So you are just choosing whether that risk is worth it to you. I would suggest it probably is not.

[@alexfrankl7861]

Spoken like a true city slicker.

[@brettleonard8602]

Mr Cadogan, I absolutely love your no BS factual reporting. Facts do not care about your feelings. A quick take away for these "Bull" bar manufacturers would be to develop a bar that repels the force of a kangaroo yet crumples and conforms the vehicle standard crumple/absortion rate above such force like a small hatch 800kg. Never have I heard of an 800kg roo. Surely that's the best engineering outcome? Please correct me or point out the flaw here? People will always buy every showroom product for there vehicle. Therefore the industry needs to change. Please forgive my atrocious grammar, I spent highschool staring out the window daydreaming. I know it's a pet peave of yours. Again I apologise Sir Cadogin speaker of TRUTH AND FACTS. P.S that wasn't quick🤦

[@grantleyhughes]

ARB is basically bogan costume jewellery.

[@darrenjordan841]

After reading the comments, it seems this type of debate has been around for a long time. As a recent first time 4WD owner with a 23-year-old vehicle, I found this very interesting. Thanks John.

[@Will-nb8qk]

So bullbars if you live in the bush but unessential in the city

[@seaarc68]

I’m ashamed to say that Ive hit two Wallabies so far with my 2017 Disco late at night driving in Sydney’s northern beaches area. Never even saw them coming to even have a chance of avoiding. Minor damage to front fender both times, all easily fixable. If I ever had a reason to fit a bar it would be for this but now - no way! Instead, I’ll drive slower, use my fog lights in these backroads and be more prepared. At least I know that my chances will be better if the sh*^t really does hit the fan!

[@RhysLloyd]

JC how does this work for factory accessories? Toyota sell “genuine” bullbars (which are aesthetically vomit inducing, but I digress) and presumably these would not be allowed to impact the safety rating? Granted I’ve never bought one, so don’t know for sure; but as a consumer I would expect the ANCAP rating to be unchanged when fitting factory accessories-or appropriate warnings being required to be accepted regarding the reduction in safety. Although I’m writing this it has occurred to me that there are no such warnings that fuel consumption will be affected when attaching accessories-so maybe it’s conveniently left out. Are you aware of the regulations (or lack thereof) in the factory-accessory space?

[@Hoop-pi6dp]

Current Toyota website quote "Toyota Genuine Bull Bars are the only Bull Bars that are jointly designed with Toyota vehicle engineers to help ensure full integration with Toyota Safety Sense (TSS) for optimum occupant safety." Just sayin for the beard strokers. If you must have a bullbar, genuine is the go..

[@YZJB]

@@Hoop-pi6dp Toyota Safety Sense is just the ADAS stuff like auto emergency braking. Doesn’t say it doesn’t affect the way the car actually crashes

[@stuartjohnston1086]

On a similar note, I bought a 2nd hand KTM 1090 motorcycle a couple of years ago. Previous owner had a full set of "crash bars" fitted, which covered the upper engine and tank, making the bike much wider. 1st thing I did was remove them. Less weight, less wind resistance and less dangerous to a pedestrian in an impact.

[@overland_adventure_nz]

So well said, thank you for your honest engineering opinion. Experienced engineer myself I was very surprised. I want to talk to about crash cans that we won’t use for fitting Bullbars talked about more in the instructions! The only Bullbar company to talk about cash testing I found was TJM and they seem to only static crash test the bar and not a full vehicle test like in your report. Since discovering this is been looking for a winch mount to use the standard front bumper assembly and another number of them just don’t seem to have good engineering sense to them ? I’m looking to purchase a German design to an engineered winch mount to fit my personal vehicle, and it has had to pass the TUV tests and this is the safest option I’m happy with. Yes a standard Bullbar looks cool, but like driving a high end European touring bus in the mid 1990’s they had a crumple zone in front of the bulkhead, which was behind the driver seat in other words the driver was replaceable! ….

[@robstone4537]

If you really need a winch I had an engineering friend who also did not like Bullbars. There is no rule saying the winch has to be fitted to the front of the vehicle. He made a rear bumper with a place to fit the winch.

[@nevyn9050]

There is a method of winch fitting that bypasses the front bumper assembly altogether, one which I'm surprised isn't in wider use and that's to mount the winch towards the centre of the vehicle (added bonus of weight distribution for a start) and just guiding the rope end out the front, down the side of the engine and through a small guide hole. There's an added bonus that a bigger winch drum can be fitted too and double (or more) rope length. It's also a good place to mount the radiator, behind the cabin, again, not at all difficult to do.

[@vk3fbab]

Get a tow hitch mount. Then you can mount it rear on any vehicle. Then make a system so you can connect the tow hitch mount to a tree trunk protector. Make some long leads with thick jumper cables and you can mount your winch to a tree and pull your stuck vehicle towards the tree. You can winch forward backwards or sideways. Just need to prepare beforehand. You can probably get away with 6M of thick electrical cable.

[@overland_adventure_nz]

@@nevyn9050 thanks, all good points about central winch mounting and a reminder of a 4x4 manufacture in the UK that made most of there vehicles with a central winch. But it’s a lot of engineering to retro fit to a new 4x4 . Also a good reminder about central radiator mounting, in the past I have fitted a central radiator into a a Rally car to keep it safe, keep the weight centre as close to the vehicle centre.

[@darrenleask6042]

Thanks for the info. Having bowled a number of roos in outback where there is no mobile coverage to get rescued having a bar on the front increases likelihood of being able to carry on. I will role the dice and stay with the bar. Seeing the wrecked vehicles religiously turning up at the wreckers after stint living in Ceduna is a strong argument for these mods. I get what your saying it is a conundrum. Do you actually drive way outback?

[@rylancarmichael8030]

Think I might cancel the bar I ordered for the new Pajero sport! Save 3 grand too 😊

[@Inisfad]

I did watch Mr Cadogan's video, yes, I did download Mr Jenkins power point presentation and go through it, and there is, in my opinion a significant flaw in the test methodology, especially as it relates to the "bullbar aspects" of the test. The "control vehicle" used a a reference was a brand new 2006 model without a steel bull bar, and the test specimen was a "decommissioned, end of lease" vehicle, rather than a brand new, 2006 model with a steel bullbar. Why does this matter? What difference does it make? I'm glad you asked, because I think it's important - mining companies lease vehicles, and replace them when they are no longer "fit for task". Essentially a decommissioned, end of lease vehicle can be considered to be at the end of it's usable life, the majority of them will have been well used in a harsh environment, potentially with corrosion, damaged components, etc. - the tests paid for and conducted by BHP Billiton, do not appear to consider the possible impact of vehicle condition on the test results. Would any Australians out there like to comment on the general condition of a decommissioned, end of lease, light vehicle from an Australian mining company? I certainly wouldn't consider buying one here. Beaten into the ground is how I would describe them, but maybe Australians aren't as hard on their vehicles as we are. I'm also going to point out in response to Mr Cadogan's comment that the chunk of steel attached to the front of the chassis will affect the airbag triggering, that the ADRs (Australia Design Rules) which commercially manufactured bull bars must meet, require that the manufacturer demonstrate that the product does not adversely affect the said timing. I do agree with him that if any manufacturer had done tests that showed the product increased safety there would be much fanfare & hoopla about it.

[@oldmate6327]

Just had a look at the Izuzu, Mazda and Ford sites. All three had genuine bull bars on offer. I wonder if these companies have done anything in research/development/safety testing for their optional extras.

[@bradleygibson1989]

I can tell you genuine toyota bullbars are engineered with safety in mind. I watched a video where they showed you the way the bull bar crumples to protect your car but still lets you drive away.

[@coreywarde6030]

Was looking for a comment like this one. The wife owns a 2009 MN Triton and it has a genuine bull bar fitted as well ( was on it when she received the ute) Wonder what testing (and accompanying documentation) the OEMs have for their "genuine" bullbars

[@oldmate6327]

@@bradleygibson1989 is there a link or was it at the dealership?

[@rhysperkins7301]

Bang on John!! I've been looking at some front protection for my GR 300 { your fav car) but i only need it to help prevent damaged from animal strikes rendering the vehicle in operable. you're 100% correct in what you say. Hopefully the manufactures will come out with a multi piece system that provides some protection without increasing the risk to the occupants of the vehicle. I live remote and unfortunately encounter wildlife daily. drive to the conditions, take your time and arrive safely.

[@davyfella]

After the second relatively minor collision (vehicle was still drivable but with broken guards and headlights) with some of the varied Australian suicidal wildlife prevalent on the road to Dingo Piss Creek. I decided to fit a Bullbar to my 2017 Pajero. I opted for the Genuine Mitsubishi branded after market bullbar. They claim that it is designed to work in conjunction with the inbuilt passive and active safety systems on the vehicle. Now, I'm not a fully fledged university trained mechanical engineer with a back pocket full of degrees. But, I am a time served Aircraft structural technician with 30 years experience so I can look at the design of something and recognise the designed load paths and programmed crumple zones. The OEM bullbar is not built like a brick shithouse, the mounting points are made of hollow top hat section angles which are there to collapse under impact. The structure of the bullbar itself is thin enough to fold up when needed. So, I am under no illusions that I will be able to drive away from a collision unscathed. I just hope that if skippy hops into my path again, the vehicle should still be driveable without a busted radiator. If I have a smash with something more substantial I am reasonably confident that the airbags and crumple zones will still work as designed. I pray to the gods of misfortune that i never have to find out. Why did I bother fitting it I hear you ask? Well, in my opinion, it makes the front end of the Pajero look lot better and it provides mounting points for extra driving lights and UHF antenna.

[@RhysLloyd]

Yeah my understanding of the factory bars is to help keep the vehicle drivable after an animal strike-not necessarily unscathed though-while still maintaining crumple zones etc.

[@TheOldaz1]

Thanks John. I love your attention to detail and dealing with the crap we live with, that's why I watch your channel. If I lived in the city and only occaisionally drove up the highway, I wouldn't fit a bullbar. But living in the country, driving on farm and/or gravel roads/tracks, I find a bullbar a necessity for my chosen way of life.

[@julzb7165]

In the UK bull bars were banned decades ago. Thanks for the interesting report John.

[@petesmitt]

banning bull-bars in Australia is like banning guns in the US.. politically difficult.

[@DogsBAwesome]

Not quite since 25 May 2007, it has been an offence for bull bars that have not been approved as compliant with those safety standards to be sold. Approved devices will carry an indelible ‘e’ mark (for example: e1 01 1471).

[@typhoon-7]

Not banned. They're perfectly legal provided they have the right approval paperwork.

[@Best_travelsoz]

Had a TJM bullbar for three years. Why for recovery points and protection from roos and better approach angle. Hit plenty of roos. Newer bullbars work with airbags.

[@phillipsampson4001]

In my profession, a bull bar is a must. Previous to 2017, all my work vehicles had bull bars. Driving inland (200 - 300km) from the coast up in North Queensland 2 to 4 times a week, all animal strikes damage were rather minor as the bar took around 95% of the strikes. Come 2017, the company I work for supplied me with a ute that had no bull bar, for the very reasons you mentioned. Come 2017, the ute without a bull bar had a total of 23k in damages collectively through out its lease. I’m putting one on the new lease with absolute certainty for this reason. The down time on a vehicle for repairs with all these strikes over a 5 year period becomes expensive.

[@mickeydee3595]

I had a Bullbar on my Jeep JK wrangler and ended up rear ending some lady who cut me off at a set of lights then hit the anchors when the lights went orange. Needles to say I wrote off her brand new mini cooper and I drove home with no issues, The bullbar was slightly damaged.

[@axelknutt5065]

@@mickeydee3595 what happened to the little old lady? Dead? Or did the crumple zones in her mini save her?

[@silkysixx]

Jesus Christ $23k? Do you hunt the things?

[@axelknutt5065]

As a survivor of a ‘wheel,well intrusion and pedal displacement” I can recommend that you avoid them. No femoral artery issues, if fact just a small cut from where the pedal displacement turned my foot so far the fibula popped thru the skin. The rest of my ankle/sub-talus etc were pretty mushed. Coming up to 40 years ago in a couple of months and every step I’ve taken since then has been painful.

[@phillipsampson4001]

@@silkysixx lol. Hardly. Each strike was between $1500 & $4000 to fix. Being a leased vehicle, directly after each strike the ute HAD to be fixed. That’s fairly decent though considering the amount of k’s the ute had done. Roos are by far the worst. Using big lights to scan for them is also a must, am Almost certain though that it’s the lights they aim for. Wallabies are the worst. While small, they dismantle the plastic bumpers with ease.

[@ianmcminn8127]

Thank you so much. You have no idea how much I appreciate you sharing the real truth. I have spent 8 months in hospital after many serious accidents racing superbikes, I accept that because you play, you pay, however, as an older guy I have come to the same conclusion as you and really want to share the same principle with my Mates.

[@emmaandangus946]

I love my bullbar in the city, especially in carparks 😊

[@centurion_mk6459]

Found this video when I searched for bull bars and the money I was going to spend on one will now go towards a drawer system for the rear and a new set of tyres! Thanks John.

[@AutoExpertJC]

Put some of it towards an advanced driving course.

[@danielcantrill3104]

Bullbar use especially where I live and drive is largely for animal strikes. Not to minimise frontal car collision impact reduction. Having hit multiple animals with and without bullbars I know which works best in the real world.

[@danielcantrill3104]

@@willy8d898 yep. Or a cow even kangaroos over here is Aus can be six feet tall. Def don’t want to hit one