Autoguiding Methods: The BEST & The SECOND BEST - Guess which I Use?

[@thedigitalastronomer6442]

Great video. I needed this 18 months ago when I was purchasing my first guide scope and camera.

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks, I am a day late and dollar short...

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Great video Kurt! While I was watching it and you first mentioned that the OAG was lighter, the first thing I thought of was my system and having to add almost 3lbs to the front to balance, and then you mentioned it a couple minutes later lol! Spot on, on all the facts too, what a great video for those starting off with autoguiding.

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks for the feedback Joe. I have been wanting to do a guiding video for quite a while. - Cheers Kurt

[@highbidder3952]

Thanks, new to all of this. So much to learn. your explanation of all this stuff is so much more understandable compared to many other FAST run through vids. I have my work cut out for. It's scary moving forward but fun at the same time if that makes any sense.

[@AstroQuest1]

You're very welcome! There is a steep learning curve which means go slow one step at a time. Good Luck.

[@jimsastro7990]

Thanks Kurt, another informative video, happy holidays to you and family. clear skies

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks Jim, have a wonderful holiday season to you and your family as well! - Cheers Kurt

[@oldfilmguy9413]

Very useful information and examples. Merry Christmas!

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks for the feedback. Merry Christmas to you as well!

[@kayasper6081]

Great to hear you are so happy with that 80/400 guide scope; I am very happy with my Vixen 80/400 too! By the way, I still resist and follow by hand (no auto guiding thus). The main scope is a 114mm APO / 600mm focal. Sometimes up to 9 minutes exposures, but it is not to hard to obtain pin point sharp stars. Very interesting video, I loved it.

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks for the info! I love the Guidescope. That is awesome you follow by hand. If it works, keep at it! Cheers

[@JeffHorne]

Excellent, Kurt!

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks for the feedback Jeff. Cheers

[@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy]

Excellent tutorial on guide scopes Kurt. I just acquired an OAG for my Celestron 11" and am anxious to get it set up and running. I also have that Orion 80mm scope and might swap that out on my Orion EON 130 scope. I am in the market for a better guide camera and that ZWO 174 is on my list. You are right about those guiding numbers ... the final test is to look at the stars on the objective. I've seen it go both ways ... great guiding values but lousy stars ... bad guiding values but round stars. And no wonder why I am bald!

[@AstroQuest1]

Ha Ha, Yeah this guiding thing will make go crazy. Good luck with guide camera. Someone else was mentioning the Lodestar as well. - Cheers Kurt

[@dumpydalekobservatory]

Interesting video Kurt I still use my Skywatcher ST80 with an ASI 120MM for guiding I use it with the ED80, ED100, 250 PX & the RASA 11 never had any issues so easy to focus to, I di have a finder guider but never really had much success using it as yet.

[@AstroQuest1]

Yeah, that ST80 is similar to the Orion version. I really like it. Cheers

[@JohnMcGFrance]

The Starlight Express Lodestar X2 is the best guide camera I’ve ever used. Superb quality. Use it with my OAG and have never had any issues finding stars. I still use an old ST80 guide scope. It now has the asi120 mini after my Asi120mm stopped working as ZWO didn’t follow the true usb2.0 spec and it doesn’t work with Windows10. Great guide scope if a bit heavy. I like the look of the Skywatcher ed50 guide scope so might replace the ST80 with that. I’d also note that not all OAGs are equal! The ZWO model has a tiny prism. The Celestron model is much better with long focal length scopes but is more expensive. Anyway, keep the great videos coming Kurt. Best wishes for the holidays and for 2922.

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks John. I have heard good things about the Lodestar and probably should have mentioned it as well it just I am morew familiar with ZWO stuff. I actually ordered the Celestron OAG last year but then cancelled it, but that is the best OAG and if I ever do get one it would be that. Also it is easier to focus from what I understand. - Cheers Kurt

[@JohnMcGFrance]

@@AstroQuest1 The Lodestar x2 is really sensitive. If there’s a star in the field of view it’ll find it! I’ve got a few ZWO products but have found them to be rather poor quality and terrible customer support. Aside from the Asi120mm just stopping working with Windows !0, I’ve had to replace the fan in my asi1600 and add a WiFi extender to the ASIAir pro because it’s range was about 10 feet at best. They seem to almost use consumers as beta testers. They release things then get lots of complaints so they put out an improved model very soon afterwards leaving people with kit that either doesn’t work or has no resale value as it’s been superseded. The new ASIAir plus has an external antennae now, but it’s had a lot of problems with the power board. I know 3 people who’s units were DOA and 3 more who had powe boards fail within the first month. The first run of narrowband filters had reflection issues so they released a version 2. The new EAF doesn’t need external power so old units are devalued etc.Poor quality components and/or quality control. You then wait months for repair due to shipping times. My Lodestar and QSI660 are 10 years old and still running well. I’m afraid I’ve had it with ZWO and won’t be buying anything from them in future. Other options have dropped in price and that was ZWO’s only advantage as far as I could see. It’s very disappointing as I had high hopes for their kit but alas I fear there are going to be increasing numbers of Astro imagers finding they have obsolete and poorly functioning gear over the next few years. It’ll be interesting to see how many ZWO cameras are bought today still work in 10 years. Anyway, that’s my rant on ZWO. I hope you have better luck with your ZWO kit.

[@AstroQuest1]

@@JohnMcGFrance Ha Ha, You can't keep holding back about your feelings about ZWO. I think you said it correctly with using costumers as beta testers. I used to get better service from them and I think they are getting overloaded these days - probably because everyone is a beta tester and they can't handle the problems since they are growing. They need a new business model or they are going to grow out of business. - Cheers

[@Jaguaresmtb]

I see that the OAG is placed when you use the setup with focal reducer 0.7, what is used when the hyperstar is placed? Thanks

[@AstroQuest1]

Hi Esther, I use the 50mm Agena guidescope attached to the upper bar when I use hyperstar. I do know people who use the ZWO 30mm guidescope so I would test it out if you already have it. If it does not work, then go with a bigger guidescope. Cheers Kurt

[@r.g.wilson4567]

Hello Kurt.... Great video. I'm putting together a EDGE HD 800 kit. Could you put a link to the guide scope rings, dove tail bar and adapters. Are you using the Celestron dovetail?? Thanks

[@AstroQuest1]

Yes I can: Celestron Narrow Dovetail Bar - 13.1" www.highpointscientific.com/celestron-dovetail-bar-8-narrow-94501?CEL-94501&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8e-gBhD0ARIsAJiDsaXdFC7UF5jr9Ec8PzSC7AH61KOpCtz8jPlkXiV65Kt6ydBmSYtdtyoaAnqrEALw_wcB Orion ST80 www.amazon.com/Orion-ShortTube-Refractor-Telescope-Assembly/dp/B000OZ9H1O/ref=asc_df_B000OZ9H1O/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=598358753210&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17246718342416560088&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003347&hvtargid=pla-1721886790993&psc=1 ADM Rings (100mm or larger) www.admaccessories.com/product/vr100-v-series-dovetail-ring-set-100mm-adjustable-rings/ Good Luck!

[@Fat-totoro-cat]

There is also 'onaxis' guiding.

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks for the Info Timothy!

[@jtepsr]

Can you define what short exposures is and what you consider as long exposures

[@AstroQuest1]

Depends on what your focal length of the telescope is but generally I go with anything longer than one minute is long and less than 30 seconds is short. Cheers

[@jtepsr]

oh, i thought long was like 5 minute subs and short was 60secs or less.

[@Astrobloke]

I am an OAG user for my CT10 which is at 1200mm. I moved to the 290mm rather than use a 120mm and it has been great for my guiding. I see a lot of people struggle with OAG but my experience has been a good one

[@AstroQuest1]

Yeah, I think most people that struggle are trying to use the wrong camera. I will probably end up switching to an OAG when and if I go the native 2000mm. For now I don't need to. With the right camera the OAG should work really well. - Cheers Kurt

[@Oamaruastro]

Thank you for your videos--I am a newcomer to astrophotography, but I went for OAG with the ASI120-MM Mini since it seemed to me that there would be fewer issues with that mechanism than with trying to align a finder scope. And I have no issues with the field of view of the camera--the only issue I did have was getting the *#)(%*)(#$ guide camera to get into focus, that is, until I added a helical focuser to the mix.

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks for the feedback James. That is awesome you got the OAG working at the start. Cheers Kurt

[@penguin272]

thanks for the review. I am also looking actually for a guide scope replacement on my e8hd with asi224 as guide cam. unfortunately I can't find any scope with mire than approx 350m focal, yours I cant buy anymore... any suggestion?

[@AstroQuest1]

They don't sell the Orion ST80 (FL 400mm)? I believe Meade also has a version that is the twin. Good luck.

[@bobbeanbags]

Excellent video! Why aren’t you using an OAG?

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks Robert, Yeah, I don't need to use it - at least not yet as my guiding is really good. I already had everything except the rings so I did not have to but anything new. If my stars were round I would have switched - I may have to if I were imaging at 2000mm FL but I have not tried that yet. Although most people do use an OAG for the obvious reasons, I do know a few expert Astrophotographers that use a guidescope. - Cheers Kurt

[@danjensen9425]

Great video. I have the celestron C8. I want to get the Orion 80 you have . I have a 60 mm guidescope but it’s a bad build . I’m wondering if the guide on it will fit the st80 and where did you get the top rail for the edge . Celestron sent me Avery small fits on the back only mount not a end to end rail.

[@AstroQuest1]

I think I ordered the top rail from Agena Astro. The way it is mounted is near the top it is slightly off, and one existing screw matches up on the top front and another screw matches up on the bottom - but it is secure. I don't use that Celestron thing it is just a hood ornament for me. - Cheers Kurt

[@barthennin6088]

What about "plate solving" as a guidance method? How does that compare?

[@AstroQuest1]

Hey Bart, I am not familier with plate solving for guiding? sounds interesting. Usually plate solving is used for go to or aligning. I''ll have to look into it. Cheers

[@abhijitjuvekar]

Curious (or a bit silly?) question - Can we use a Barlow lens with guide scope to increase it's effective focal length and thereby expect better guiding? e.g. I have 8x50 guide scope with native FL of 180mm can I add in 3X barlow and get an effective FL of 540mm to expect better guiding?

[@AstroQuest1]

Not a silly question at all, as a matter of fact I was going to try that but I am getting really good guiding now so I did not bother. All things being equal, in theory you should. However, the barlow will make your FOV much less so you will lose a lot of stars. Another thing is that guidescope will now be longer and there will be at least one more component in the train which could lead to weight and flexure issues. If you have all of the stuff, you might want to try it out, can't hurt. - Cheers Kurt

[@abhijitjuvekar]

@@AstroQuest1 Last night I tried it. Used Orion 3x barlow with 8x50 guide scope. However the grove inside barlow did not allowed my guide camera to reach correct focus so remove front lens of barlow and attached on camera to use it in approx. 2X mode. So my effective focal length became 180 x 2 = 360mm Configured it in PHD2 and created new dark library. It worked really good. Taken 5 min subs with GSO 6 inch RC telescope. Guiding graph was always below 1 arcsec. Plenty of stars with 2 sec exposure for guiding. I will retest with 3X for any improvements.

[@AstroQuest1]

@@abhijitjuvekar That is great news and good to know that it works! Good luck with the next test! Cheers Kurt

[@mikeh9180]

Hi Kurt, you mention check your settings. Are you talking about the ones for Phd2? If so which ones. Also you didn't mention things that can effect your guiding, isn't seeing one as well..

[@AstroQuest1]

Hi Mike, that is correct - in PhD2. Check the guidescope focal length and sensor size to start with. Other things can be Auto exposure, noise reduction, and Calibration step, and the hysteresis values. Yes, seeing sure is a big factor but I was mainly concerned with things we have control over and do something about. - Cheers

[@clungebucket23]

I have a WO 50mm guidescope and i have serious doubts on the optical quality. I swear it has the same bit of crappy glass that comes in cheap / unbranded / generic guidescopes that often come with OTAs. There seems to be a world of difference between pretty looking guidescopes and small doublets... Ok, a bit more money... My current camera is a 120mm... So my upgrade choice is 60mm doublet with a planetary ZWO... OR an OAG With a suitable camera

[@AstroQuest1]

That is very surprising about WO as I consider them above the cheapo brands. Cuiv did a video recently about variation in filters even among the 'higher' brands but related it to all astro equipment. My 50mm Guidescope is pretty good considering it was the generic Agena brand and I was not expecting much but I was pleasantly surprised. - Either of new choices are good but the OAG may cost a little more in the end. - Good Luck

[@clungebucket23]

@@AstroQuest1 and the WOs dont have a focus mechanism. The rear end rotates / screws out with a locking ring and the opening has a rotolock which when tightened throws it out of focus. Also, the focal point is so far out that the rear end is held on by the last 3 mm of thread, plus 120mm is just inside the rotolock by 3mm... Its very precarious. Why the hell would they put the focal plane so far out? Maybe they think its up to camera manufacturers to provide a set of barrel extenders with 1.5" cameras... But they don't.... I have one now of course. But im still left with having to wiggle my camera in or out by fractions of a mm in the moderately tight rotolock... Its the only way that i can maintain the orientation. All these frustrations are pushing me towards a 60mm doublet with a high tolerance rack and pinion focus mech.

[@PeterJahans]

Hi Kurt, thanks for the video. I spent some weeks this past summer using my 8" EdgeHD with a 60mm guidescope (240mm focal length) that seems to focus nicely but I can't get nice tight round stars I've seen from you and others with similar equipment. I thought I might be having issues with flex but perhaps my guide scope is not a good match-up for the 1420mm FL EdgeHD - roughly a 6:1 ratio. OA guiding is an option but I prefer a separate guide scope so maybe I should go for a longer focal length like you did (and better mounting rings)?

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks. Yeah I went with the ADM Rings which are far better than any other rings/brackets I have used. If your mount can handle the extra weight - go with the separate guidescope. - Good Luck

[@petef.4361]

I have the same 8" EdgeHD scope, and I have the Edge focal reducer to match. My mount is a CGEMii. I went the route of using the Celestron OAG, and the ASI174mm mini for it's larger sensor for the large prism, and I almost always have enough guide stars to choose from with this setup. I also use the ZWO filter slider, and my imaging camera is the 294MC PRO. I just bought the 2600MC Pro to replace it, but I just had surgery and haven't been able to use it. I would say that EITHER option is acceptable, either the OAG route I took, or go ahead and use the method in this video with the longer focal length scope for guiding. I am partial to the OAG method, but the other route is acceptable as long as you can get it working whichever you choose. Whenever I am using my Optolong L-Extreme filter, I do between 120 and 300 second exposures and I get round stars with my setup. If a gust of wind picks up, it's very sensitive and it does wreck havoc on my guiding if it stays windy. If I had more money, I would buy a better mount, but for now my CGEMii will have to do.

[@AstroQuest1]

@@petef.4361 Thanks for the response Pete. Whatever works. More people do go with OAG with this FL but I do know a few that use the Guidescope - I may have to go with an OAG at 2000mm. As far as the wind, I have friend with the same setup you use except he has an AstroPhysics Mach1 and even he says he cannot image with any wind. - Cheers Kurt