Avatar 2 - The Best And Worst Of James Cameron

[@GlitchedBlox]

James Cameron really knows how to make a sinking ship scene dramatic.

[@atomicdancer]

"Jack, I want you to draw me like one of your blue Na'vi girls."

[@thealcohologist8624]

I said that last night after leaving. He's got that art locked down.

[@robwalsh9843]

Say what you want about Cameron, the guy knows how to film an action spectacle. Terminator, Aliens, Terminator 2, True Lies, etc. The naval battle was pretty legit.

[@Thomasmemoryscentral]

@@thealcohologist8624 if 2021 gave us Drinker doing a best and worst for Nolan for Tenet and 2022 is the one for cameron with Avatar 2, is 2023 giving us another one for a legacy director?

[@Ob1sdarkside]

😂😂😂

[@TheWarmachine375]

Jake Sully: "Didn't you die to Neytiri's arrows?" Colonel Quaritch: "Sadly yes... BUT I LIVED!"

[@EkoBahamut]

Fun answer, unfortunate that your responses are filled with bots.

[@Mr.GameCrazy]

@Vince Lumontad Yeah, pretty much! 🤣

[@EndellionQT]

"Then she turned me into a newt! ...I got better."

[@Rasengan9000ttt]

Quaritch coming back from the dead was really bad ass.

[@Yoriichi_Sengoku]

Quatrich to Neytiri "I owe you one death"

[@Burkhart4192]

"Na'vi are constantly portrayed as perfect" Actually I was happy to see Na'vi jerks in this one. The water tribe chief's wife and kids outright call Jake's family halfbreeds with demon blood, and said kids lead Jake's son out into the deep ocean, apparently to be lost at sea. Meanwhile the Chief's wife gets called to treat Jake's daughter and seeing humans trying to tend to her immediately tries to use it as an excuse to leave.

[@whatsa635]

*SEASON'S GREETINGS* ⛄ Thanks for watching!! *I've picked you amongst my random console contest winners please write me on my official Telegram above* ✍️MERRY CHRISTMAS ⛄

[@delimelone]

Yes exactly this. We are starting to see Navi that are outright racist and are literally trying to kill one of their own. And this is just the beginning, I am excited to see what kind of immoral Navi will be shown in the next movie, but this "Navi are constantly portrayed as perfect" is and will never be the case again.

[@holyluchadore]

@@delimelone Compared to how the humans/villains in the movie are portrayed, the small number of flaws doesn't even compare. They are perfect conceptually, the 'flaws' presented in this movie are gone by the end when they work together with JakeSully to defeat 'The Humans' with nobility and bravery. Once again it is the same trope characterization, just with a lighter shade of blue and a different ecosystem.

[@pretendtheresaname9213]

What they did was attempted murder.

[@izzyarland5304]

They were never perfect, at least in this one we don't have to wait for the extended cut. Navi were always racist and destructive to the environment, they just don't have the capacity for either that humans do in that timeline.

[@marenkendall7413]

I'm a bit surprised by how little I see people talk about Kiri's epilepsy/connection with the Great Mother that feels like total loose end, or at least underdeveloped. I thought that in 3 hours I could see this story get really well rounded out.

[@AnonYmous-mk4mm]

I was disappointed they never admitted who the father was cause 13 years from now I'm not gonna remember the plot

[@dv9239]

​@@AnonYmous-mk4mmthere's no father or mother She's Grace born again with Eywa's help

[@Ebalosus]

@@AnonYmous-mk4mmI will at least give the film credit for having characters therein actually _discuss_ the issue, even if from a juvenile teenage perspective of "lol, I bet your dad was Norm (sorry, can’t remember that guy’s name), lmao!" But then I have to take some credit back because in the exact same scene they discuss Spider’s dad, but don’t mention his mother, which raises question about who _she_ was…

[@QuantumAscension1]

​@@AnonYmous-mk4mm My interpretation was that there isn't supposed to be a father and it's more of a "Virgin Mary had a Jesus" situation, with Eywa being the "god" that makes it happen.

[@wjzav1971]

They are pretty much setting her up to be Navi-Jesus who brings balance to the Force and probably ends up dying to bring the warring tribes of Humans and Navi together.

[@HAL9000.]

I never thought James Cameron could make a movie even more blue than the first, but here we are.

[@MrNegativecreep07]

Just wait until the third one about the air Navi

[@Sonny_McMacsson]

I'm blue, dabba dee dabba da...

[@Tomfoolery1972]

The man does love his blue tints, doesn't he?

[@rebeccaconlon9743]

Bot

[@thetruestar6348]

It’s not better it’s just as meh

[@anvos658]

I still struggle to understand how humanity in the Avatar universe has the ability to bioengineer lifeforms, and make them genetically compatible with the base species, yet making an Earth lifeform capable of cleaning up/eating pollution or just modifying humans to be more tolerant to the new conditions is apparently impossible.

[@Stothehighest]

Because keeping Earth habitable was never their goal. The group on Pandora doesn't represent humans on Earth, they're all from that one corporation. Basically this universe's Weyland-Yutani, and they were all about bringing a live xenomorph to earth for study/weaponization and later profit. (The one line from the general about needing to subdue the natives is just that one general, and we don't have anyone else saying things different from Earth-side, and one would think the human pro-Navi staff still in this film would have some contact back home.) If you look at what the base focus is for each movie. Avatar is more of a film series against corporate profit-chasing really. The first film was all about unobtanium, meant for powering starships more cheaply/or to be sold for profit. This new film has a main focus on the anti-aging goo from the whales, which the guy said was now the main source of funding for the entire Pandora human expedition. That's just human vanity and greed. I think the main point of the overall story has been, even though humans have supposedly royally fucked up Earth with these behaviors. They still haven't learned. Plop them in any new paradise and unless their underlying motivations change, they're going to destroy any new "eden" they find or make for themselves with the same old greed for money. I'm hopeful it's some version of this where a third film, if we get one, is going, not for everyone to go all flower-child, but maybe we actually need to see more from Earthside, than this militarized corporation saying they're speaking for Earth.

[@olmstranger]

@@Stothehighest "Avatar is more of a film series against corporate profit-chasing really." Lmao. I really want to know how they justify to themselves spending so much money making these movies.

[@azaquarium123]

The whale extract also seemed contrived, like they can create avatars but can't replicate the immortality extract? I felt they could have come up with a better reason to hunt them.

[@uvexeorozahagan5385]

Because "Science".

[@Sajgoniarz]

Because understanding Earth ecology and all the connections is beyond our capabilities, maybe even in the future. I can compare it to Global Warming - it's in motion and it have tipping points beyond which damage would be unrecoverable or unstoppable like melting an iceberg - even when we restore the correct temperature, it will still melt, because it went down the slope and is under optimal temperature condition height. So - You can clean the the pollution, but by the time You do this life will already die or adapt, so you end up with... empty, carbonic acid tank, empty dusty wastelands. How our bioengineering is going? We have some successes with GMO, but we also have bioengineered mosquitos that was causing sterility in future generation, but it turned out that mosquito ladies somehow learned to avoid them. I think making genetic compatible species is not going to be hard to Synthetic Biology as soon as we learn how to make complex organisms, since you just build from already known principles and DNA. I'm just enthusiast, so if we have a scientist in the room, i have no problem with clearing the floor with my words if I learn something new :D

[@FiveofHearts1]

My issue with the 3rd act is it felt like they kept leaving the ship, and getting back on, then leaving the ship, then getting back on...

[@leonie7754]

Yeah, I can see that. We're getting away - oh no, we forgot someone, better go back x3. But then again, as an ADHD person, just leaving the house I end up going back and forth multiole times as I keep forgetting things XD and with so many family members in the middle of a frantic battle, I could believe it XD

[@savagemcflurry9082]

@yo fuck off with your spam

[@ZJon]

Yh, and the daughters got captured non-stop

[@UnofficialName]

Yes, and Jake & Neytiri are freaking out when WATER - the thing they spent the entire movie learning to adapt to - slowly sinks the ship. Don't they have like 20 minutes before they need air? Did they learn nothing? The ending would make more sense if Jake's entire family watched Quaritch drown while mouthing the words "Way of the WATER, BEaaatch!". Man, this film annoyed the crap out of me.

[@markadams5823]

The boat is sinking. Get back to the boat

[@ScrambledAndBenedict]

If nothing else, you gotta give it credit for not trying to "subvert expectations" or "deconstruct the genre" or be spiteful to its target audience or anything like that. In fact, just the fact that it went for a simple, if dated, kind of moral and was made with some passion was pretty refreshing.

[@jase276]

Give it credit for literally copying the same cliche story of every movie made in the last 100 years? Sure. I'd rather it have not been made at all if that were the only options.

[@AlphaCentauri24]

Idiotic , boring & dumb. It is a shame on the 1st movie that was entertaining.

[@ScrambledAndBenedict]

@@jase276 You may be right, but let's be real. It not being made was most certainly not an option because: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fn7YipmJmKyjmKc

[@capndallas4918]

​@jase276 I know you hate strong father figures but hopefully one day you'll find one. It might help change your attitude.

[@simulatedstring9029]

@@jase276 Hasn't been a very used story line in the last 2 decades, wdym

[@kevinoneil5120]

Fun tidbit, Lucas DID have a few editors on the set of the prequels that challenged some of his decisions. Lucas then, in his own words from a behind the scenes interview, "had to let them go"

[@patrioticcat5768]

He almost did the same thing for Duel Of Fates. Too many yesmen and a big ego.

[@atomicdancer]

"I may have gone too far in a few places..." said James Cameron never.

[@spacerx]

@secret5017 The secret of air frying potatoes? What the hell?

[@goldengrill769]

I see where people called prequels self indulgent but honestly kinda on long reflection, I think Lucas deserved to have some crazy characters or ideas too. Some of his plot ideas where ass but random crap like 50s diners with alien line chefs speaking in Brooklyn accents are funny to me now.

[@louisduarte8763]

@@patrioticcat5768 Was "Duel of the Fates" going to be "The Rise of Skywalker"? Lucas had nothing to do with that one.

[@DirtyJokesFan]

One of the better tactics for these films is just to enjoy the visuals and let the plot just act as a background detail.

[@affirazer]

yes but if the movie has no story dont make it fkn 3 hours long

[@LouisianaPwnsUrMom]

But just like critical said, the length makes the visuals lack substance. I saw this in imax and about an hour and a half in, I was bored of the visuals

[@adrianrondumanig1946]

@@LouisianaPwnsUrMom sheeple

[@adrianrondumanig1946]

@Fabian It did, it's a story about how reef people live or their culture, Jake's family and kids, and revenge for the old dude. I think you only think of it as simple.

[@KG-th3cr]

I enjoy letting BOTH become background details.

[@benoitloubens7691]

I feel like you shouldn't forget that Spider is a child that grew without a father, in search of an identity. The colonel showed that he cared for him by releasing Kiri so that he wouldn't be killed, so for me, his decision at the end makes sense.

[@heliopyre]

" in search of an identity" would have been nice to actually see that and have it organically integrated into the story. instead we have him loving life and getting on with the Na'Vi like he's one of them except for Neytiri for some reason who is a massive racist still even though she married and had kids with a human. then he teaches the people trying to kill his family how to fly.

[@ElGrabnar]

@@heliopyre Right? Tarzan did such a better job with Kerchak and the tribe treating him as an outsider. I also totally understand it just from a "heroic" standpoint, it's the "right" thing to do and from a "now we are even" point of view too because he saved him. That being said I would not be chill with Jake's family because his wife threatened to kill me, spider is most likely just a dipshit.

[@herheartbeats5727]

Peter-pan/Hook relation trying to be portrayed here, do you think ?

[@veronicagross7458]

exactly. I told my sister I hated he decided to save him in the end and she replied "yeah, but he was raised by good people, so he did the right thing" .

[@kamilnurkowski]

I agree, it felt like despite not wanting to he started to see father figure in him during their journey. They both affected each other in the way they themselfes would not expect.

[@wolfsrain1984]

The ‘new character turns out to be the secret child of the previous villain’ is such a cliche element and it’s always followed by said character sitting alone depressed before being joined by someone who was previously hurt by that villain and the kid saying “am I like them?” And the other person smiling and saying “you’ve got a good heart, you’re nothing like them” 🙄

[@jusbyusef]

😂

[@NeilPower]

I will never understand how they can spend MILLIONS on special effects but only offer pocket change on writing the script???

[@tburton2877]

@secret5017 shutup you silly bots

[@joydeepjoshi]

I feel u bro

[@rbelf001]

It is hard to be a creative writer and high on drugs at the same time.

[@Dernellar]

Lemmings cannot handle any more complex story. They have no capability to discern the overwhelming plot-holes which should be seen as insulting to the viewer.

[@werovivero9219]

Bruh ain’t writing free? How much could that possibly cost plus it’s Cameron’s vision even if you don’t personally like it he achieved what he was going for

[@huzaifakhambhati8767]

The thing that annoyed me the most was when he repeatedly said, "I have your kids, come alone or I will shoot them" Not only does that happen multiple times but when it becomes obvious that Sully is going there to fight, he just forgets to shoot them. I am like why? You are supposed to be merciless, it's obvious that Sully will kill you so why not just shoot them? In the last act, Neytiri and Sully team up and kill the remaining two Avatars (aside from the colonel) yet the colonel never kills the kids.

[@Dark_KING_zZz]

Ye it thats what i thought too, or that naitiri just could have killed the colonel from the back instead of taking spider

[@RobFisherUK]

That whale should have waited until the hostage exchange was complete before starting the attack, too.

[@gunnar6674]

Quaritch hates Sully, but he still has a remaining moral character. He sees Jake as a traitor who must die, but he gets more and more moral qualms, especially seeing his own son among them.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

So many people do not get Quarich. He's a Marine colonel. That means merciless to the ENEMY but a protector to those who need protection. He has honor and duty. He doe not let FEELINGS get in the way; but duty does not compel killing children. They might die anyway as collateral damage.

[@Ginkgobonobo]

Additionally, in the last act why is it just the Sully family against Quarich? What happened to the like 80+ sea people that were already fighting that same battle earlier? Literally there was no mention of them, what they were doing, or why they left the Sully family to fight their own battle. Lazy writing.

[@stansmith8003]

I couldn't get over the fact that 4 of the 6 soldier avatars were killed in the beginning (one was literally shot in the face) when Jake was rescuing his kids but in the next few scenes they're scene leaving the area perfectly fine

[@honuswagner9348]

I noticed that too!

[@slvrshore5300]

yeah that made no sense, the sea people also disappeared in last battle with no explanation, guess they just went home lol

[@obrikidivine7973]

@@slvrshore5300Yh 😂I was wandering were they went to

[@obrikidivine7973]

@@honuswagner9348Yh but I thought that was a different set of aliens

[@guy-iw2qh]

there were 11 recomms in total, not 6. There were 2 squads, quartich squad had 6 and nearby there was another squad of 5 reccons patroling (rememebr the ones who ambushed jake's kids, that was the second squad) in total there were 11 avatar soldiers in that scene.

[@survivaloptions4999]

We live in a world where the reviews are more anticipated than the movies. Let that sink in. EDITED TO ADD: "Letting other people think for you." Yet here you are. Also, some people have wasted so much money on absolute shite that they are a little jaded, that's all. If none of that applies to to you, coo. No need to troll.

[@bighand1530]

Not surprised.

[@halogeek6]

Holy shit. Your right. I didnt watch tjis movie and i probably wont but i was lookinf forward to the drinkers opinion on it!

[@RockSmithStudio]

The movies released since 2010s has made the 80s look good in comparison

[@frosty3693]

@@RockSmithStudio It might go further back than that. Older movies did not have the distractions today so they could focus on the story and people, and message? what message?

[@eyespy3001]

Yeah, because for people who can’t think for themselves, being told what to think about something without even experiencing it is like a drug. This is why everyone should be weary of op-ed channels like the Critical Drinker. This guy literally makes a living off of telling people what they shouldn’t like months before ever experiencing it for themselves. He knows some hot take on some popular thing will keep bringing people back so they can keep being told it’s crap and it’s ruining their childhood or some shit like that.

[@ManOfWDW]

Spyders last act made 100 percent sense to me. The colonel had saved his life when natiri had a knife to his throat so he saved the colonels life in return. What had me wondering wtf is how spyders just gonna live as part of natiris family now but they aren’t gonna say a word about how she was about to kill him 15 minutes previous?

[@alexanderkempf9828]

The movie isn't an intellectual one, but people are having a hard time connecting all the different nuances and just say MoViE bAd! Colonel showed Spyder that he cared about him in the last act, so Spyder returned the favor. Simple as that. People want a unique story and then get mad when characters do unexpected but understandable things. Edit: I think people are also forgetting that Colonel is the one that let Spyder out of the interrogation room and back into the forest. Spyder was also impressed at his father's ability to wrangle the flying creature without a harness or a muzzle, so Spyder clearly has some respect for his father. Those two moments alone served as pseudo-bonding moments between them. Far more interesting than a cliche bonding moment between father and son.

[@SolidSnake1217]

@@alexanderkempf9828 the movie blows

[@ManOfWDW]

Just imagine how f***** the family dynamic is with that ending though. Natiri constantly treats spyder like trash and then holds a knife to his throat all for the human people to leave and act like none of that happened? Dude he’s gotta have a family dynamic where his adopted mother hates him and adopted father only loves him because he feels bad for him.

[@ManOfWDW]

I’m putting way too much thought into this whole spyder living with natiri thing now. James Cameron obviously didn’t.

[@ManOfWDW]

@J they’re making it real easy for spyder to grow up and be the avatars version of the joker. Almost makes me feel as if spyder would’ve been better off with the colonel.

[@inquisition3173]

My dad said he liked the movie, just because of how it looked. I asked him about the plot, and he said I honestly cant remember. I think they had to shoot whales or something. I ask him what the characters names are. He said, "uh... Jake and blue chick, and his kids names are: "Dont Touch That", "Get back here" and "Why dont you listen?"

[@johncra8982]

Did you shake your head slowly in despair after that? Knowledge really is a burden. If only everyone could see through all the lies and distractions the way keen-eyed hawks like yourself can, we could've had better stories. Alas, the world is full of sheep who can't see the truth, so we'll keep getting garbage like this film 😔😔 so sad 😔😔😔

[@ryankramer]

FYI, those are the names of EVERY parent's kids.

[@Golemoid]

cringe plot fan vs based visuals enjoyer

[@nom6758]

@@Golemoid Brainless visual NPC vs cultured critical thinker

[@bikramarora1819]

@@nom6758my brother in Christ it’s a visual medium. Not saying the plot and screenplay aren’t crucial, but what separates a film from a book is the ability to lose yourself in the moving images you see on a screen.

[@agorilla7137]

The craziest part of Avatar 2 for me was how much it felt like it was all set up for something that didn't come. Spider's relationship with his dad, the hostage scene, the stroke, humanity trying to colonize. Everything seemed like it was setting up for much more than what the end of the movie gave that it feels like it was either meant to be longer or to be the first in a long series like Starwars, but at the same time the painted simplicity of humans bad gives the feeling that any sequel wouldn't be much fleshed out. All in all, I think we'll all find out in Avatar 3: The fall of Earth

[@fredy2041]

Its being set up to be the 3rd film, there will be 3 more of this

[@agorilla7137]

@@fredy2041 That we know of

[@mahwiiiife408]

When I heard Jake Sully say "A father's job is to protect his family" I knew it was gonna be at least better than the marvel shitfests.

[@Neeeg]

Amen bro

[@chriscorben-green2640]

I thought "A father's job is to protect his family " is " The Message " that viewers of Drinker would want in movies. But then, looking at the comments, it seems this is too " Woke" for some people.

[@isaiahrodriguez2770]

@@chriscorben-green2640 the logic at this point is that “woke” simply means “anything I don’t like”. The differences in the behaviors of the ultra “woke” and the anti-“woke” become less distinctive by the day.

[@captainhowlerwilson508]

Better than a lot of the recent Marvel movies, not a lot of the best ones from Phases 1 to 3.

[@pebcak]

A lot better than America Chavez with two mothers. And they say *I'm* a science denier.

[@llamasmeowing2061]

I feel awful for spider, his pretty much adopted mom goes insane and was willing to murder him, and then they just hug afterwards and it isn’t mentioned. Maybe they’re trying to set him up as a villain, but I wouldn’t blame him at this point.

[@turt1100]

I think it’s setup for the later movie(s) but yeah that was kinda crazy to not cover such a terrifying moment for him

[@bijacz9679]

How would he eat with the mask on, it was said that humans can breathe 10 seconds on Pandora

[@kronos661]

@@bijacz9679 I'm pretty sure they can be outside for more than 10 seconds.

[@4Beloved4Stardust4]

There is a prequel comic called Avatar: High Ground which goes a bit deeper into Spider's childhood/lineage. The long and short of it is that Neytiri was *never* really onboard with adopting Spider, she was never his mother and he never even referred to her as such instead calling her Mrs.Sully. So the developments in the movie shouldn't be at all surprising to him as she has treated him coldly 8/10 times that he knew her. If anything he should've been apprehensive to begin with.

[@veetour]

Spider is to Jon Snow as the mother is to Catelyn Stark.

[@weightupmountainguy]

The heavy importance of family in the least Vin Diesel way possible was my favorite part. They trusted one another, and weren’t belittling each other constantly like every single other thing made nowadays. Dad was dad, mom was mom, and the kids were kids. For sure too long though.

[@Suki-hl6vg]

Ughhh Vin Diesels We family we ride or die one mile at a time talk😭😭🤣🤣🤣 why does the thai vin diesel come to my mind.😭🤣

[@Flugs0]

i don't think it was too long, the thing went by in a fly

[@KaosNova2]

The Pacifier was funny though, but I hear ya. #kaosnova

[@benjamynhazelton1162]

Yeah it was good to see a classic Family again. It so diluted in cinema and shows nowadays. Felt refreshing for it to just... Be... Even though it was long me and my girlfriend literally didn't feel the length. It was so good! She usually falls asleep at every movie we watch 🙄 but this was engaging and epic throughout

[@trolleriffic]

@@benjamynhazelton1162 "Even though it was long me and my girlfriend literally didn't feel the length." - phrasing?

[@davidgannon5388]

4:27 - man, you aren't kidding! During that interminable chunk of the movie, someone says, "The Way of Water has no end." And I literally thought to myself, "It sure f*cking seems so!"

[@obrikidivine7973]

Just finished watching the movie and your just right 😂it wasn’t bad though

[@boid9761]

My biggest gripe about this movie is that by this point in time, you'd think that the humans would have advanced in tech and started creating genetically enhanced Na'vi with marine brains downloaded into them, and geared in power armor to create their very own Space Marines. But no, they regressed in technology by having exposed stiltsuits, windshields that no longer block arrows, and armored TRAINS Like, the World Wars showed us why armored trains are a bad idea

[@davidlacoste]

Yeah, the lack of improvement in technology broke my suspension of disbelief. Especially the windshields. They waited close to 20 years to come back and seems less prepared than before. Only their bigger number is making up for it.

[@youknowwhoelsecantthinkofagood]

@@davidlacoste Yeah, you’d especially think, after the events of the first movie, the military would make arrow proof glass. Especially if they were doing something as important as preserving the human race. Not to mention that the humans have these crazy advanced mech suits, but seem to have forgotten about things like predator drones that can bomb the cat people clear from the upper atmosphere.

[@gunnar6674]

@@youknowwhoelsecantthinkofagood The insurgents are hiding in the Hallelujah mountains, where compasses don't work, and where the alien life attacks anything human which enters.

[@Denominov]

Actually curious, what is so bad about armored trains?

[@Deridus]

@@Denominov Easy to derail. Very easy to derail.

[@danielshults5243]

One of the finest examples of "see it in theaters or don't see it at all." The spectacle of this movie, delivered on a huge screen with a massive sound system, is enough to prop up its weaker elements and keep it entertaining-- though I will admit to checking my watch a few times during the second act. That said, I doubt I will ever rewatch it in its entirety.

[@greggstrasser5791]

Ain’t worth it, then. Time is non-renewable.

[@anduriell]

So you are saying I should watch it at home using a VR headset and the IMAX app right? Much cheaper than going to an IMAX cinema for sure

[@kaiusm.8396]

Yeah I found myself checking the time as well, I do feel the second act could have been shorter.

[@Yuria199]

I agree on your last part, checking the time or having the urge to check the mobile phone for something interesting was definetely the case. I must sadly admit that I was not fascinated enough by the visuals and sound to stay entertained in cinema. I get the point that many say it may be the only way to watch this movie, but it made me so angry (due to the length, that was unnecessary) that I stick to the opinion that this movie is not a must-watch

[@adrianrondumanig1946]

I would in Imax

[@TheBattleRabbit860]

I'm just blown away by the water simulations and physics they pulled off. Literally any time that you see the -smurfs- navi in the water, it's all 100% computer generated. The way the water drips off and lingers on things and the way things like cloth become saturated is insane.

[@ThatRPGuywithtoomanyOCs]

Yep. Both Avatar movies were all about the cutting edge technology on display, with the story in third place behind making a neat world. Avatar has a mediocre at best story, but it was all about the spectacle of insanely new CGI and a cool world on display.

[@TheBattleRabbit860]

@p o p I don't like clicking on link if I don't know what it is. So, what's back?

[@theperson8539]

That’s a backhanded compliment, if you are so hurt by the concept, why talk about the film at all? Why enjoy the visuals? Wtf is wrong with you?

[@theperson8539]

@@ThatRPGuywithtoomanyOCs Not really, the emotional through line of the story worked really well.

[@johncleave]

The scenes at the start of the ships landing and burning the forest were incredible.

[@jessemoore7081]

Cameron is a helluva pioneer in cinematic technology... but for the love of God, he paints his scripts with an extension roller. Heavy-handed, cliché, preachy, without an ounce of subtlety or cleverness. He's a sharp director, but a completely blunt and dulled out writer. It's almost hard to believe he wrote The Terminator, Aliens, and The Abyss. True Lies had different writers, and T2 showed signs of his bad habits. Titanic is where his flaws really showed through. Derivative love story that takes up most of the more fascinating historical aspects of the famed travesty.

[@bikramarora1819]

This looked and felt like an actual movie. And that by default makes it one of the few modern movies that is worth seeing in the theatres. The bar is so low 😔

[@piotrwillow6440]

Its not a movie, its a cartoon

[@JosephArata]

That's what they want, they want you to be ok with mediocrity. Don't give them your money for lazy attempts at making a story.

[@flightevolution8132]

I actually quite enjoyed the movie. The visuals were stunning and the robotics used by the human population were extremely interesting to see. I had a good time.

[@hairglowingkyle4572]

@@piotrwillow6440 fuck off, cartoons are way better than most modern cinema nowadays

[@johncleave]

@@flightevolution8132 Crab mechs ftw

[@thealcohologist8624]

Saw it last night, the visuals are insane. As for Spyder's last act, he is at the end of the day a kid, and I think it's the purity of heart that has him do that. It is very hard to see someone dying and not take action.

[@samiamtheman7379]

Honestly, if my adopted mom threatened to kill me without hesitation in front of the rest of my adopted family, and the only one who begged her to stop was my bio dad, I would've done the same thing. Only difference being I wouldn't have run back to them.

[@zickzoro09]

@@samiamtheman7379 it would be nice if he actually went with his dad

[@eturn23]

Sorry, but that's a stretch I'm just not willing to go along with. The story in this movie was terrible, and Spider saving Quaritch at the end was silly and stupid that only made it worse.

[@Liberty_or_Ded]

WOW THE VISUALS WOOOO THE KEYS LOOK AT THE KEYS JANGLYJANGLYJANGLE WHEEEE YAAAAY KEEEEYS WOOO JANGLY KEYS WHEEEE

[@Flugs0]

@@eturn23 Quaritch saved Spider's life just a few minutes earlier, so Spider saved his in return. Makes sense to me.

[@RandomVideosOfNoConsequence]

Family structure is a core element in Avatar 2. Brought to you by James Cameron, who was married five times.

[@Thunderchild-gz4gc]

And had a kid out of wedlock with Linda Hamilton, who isn't innocent either.

[@papi-sauce]

by you logic George R.R. Martin shouldnt be writting game of thrones since he never ride a dragon or been to Westeros haha

[@connordorman117]

@@papi-sauce that is different. He isn't preaching a hypocritical message when he can't get his own shit together.

[@trolleriffic]

@@connordorman117 Doesn't necessarily mean it's hypocritical. He might feel more strongly about emphasising the importance of family precisely because he's seen the effects of family breakdown, even if he was the cause of them. A warning about the dangers of alcohol or drug abuse is no less sincere when it comes from someone who's been an addict - "Don't make the same mistakes as me" can be a powerful message when it's done right (I haven't seen the film so I don't know how it comes across in this case).

[@connordorman117]

@@trolleriffic that would be more believable if he had broken down 1 or even two family units but down to 5 and it is just absurd.

[@gialon10]

Avatar: And they lived happily ever after. Avatar 2: Surprise bitch!!! Now is a saga!!!

[@toska3528]

The trope of, "Sully, I took your kids" occurred one too many times.

[@toska3528]

@Secret bro, holy shit that's the best thing I've ever seen!

[@chrisb9960]

So toska3528 and secret0517 are the same person and spamming how to make fries. I like the fact that I can queue a video (stupid air fryer potato wedges) and then remove it so I never have to watch the stupid thing.

[@CYXNIGHT]

The whole theatre laughed by the third time ong. In fact, the theatre laughed way more than it should've lmfao Actually. It was enjoyable, cause the "contrivances" (as he puts it) are so comedic at times If you go into it being serious you're not gonna have a good time. But I really enjoyed the movie, even with the sometimes silly plot

[@dnw009]

@@CYXNIGHT It's a movie that isn't out to say much besides having an environmental side message about taking care of nature. Which is exactly why I enjoyed the first and second one because it is just a simple, fun entertaining movie where you can just turn your brain off. If I want a complex movie I wouldn't go to James Cameron to look for one. :P

[@BK-hp8cj]

Everything in this movie was a trope done poorly. Like 20 tropes crammed into one

[@t.b.cont.]

I like how quaritch almost seems to be slowly losing his connection to humanity as time passes. He doesn’t see himself is truly being the same guy his memories were cloned from, he sees how he dies and only really sees the frailty of his former self from how easily he crushes his own skull, and he even seems rather disinterested with why humanity is space whaling space whales for immortality juice. By the end the only compassion he only shows is for his son Spider who while saving his life rejects him. It makes me wonder if he’s planned to have a jake sully moment in a hypothetical third film where he chooses to fight for the blue people in the end

[@aygwm]

He’s extremely one dimensional honestly

[@t.b.cont.]

@@aygwm Jake Sully? I’d have to disagree, I think there’s more to him than people give credit, but he’s not the most complex character either. There’s nothing wrong with a simple character. Some of people’s favourite characters are relatively simple all things considered. The terminator, Rambo, Batman, these characters in both concept and in action are rather one dimensional, but they’re still good characters

[@ElGrabnar]

That would be such a predictable and generic arc I could see Cameron patting himself on the back for being so genius to think of it.

[@ElGrabnar]

@@t.b.cont. Did you have a stroke and forget everything about Rambo and Batman? Neither one is as one dimensional as Jake Sully; he's such a placeholder it's not even funny. Every single aspect of his character is as bland as possible. "I want legs again." Gets legs. "I don't want to be cartoonishly evil." Becomes the "white savior" trope while in blueface casually murdering all his former colleagues. "I love and protect my family." Proceeds to love and protect his family. We don't even get him acknowledging that humanity is fucking doomed without Pandora because "Nah, I'm blue now. Fuck the people who had the bad luck not to be born the right species for me to care." He never sees his dead twin brother in the spirit tree or has any lasting internal conflict over leaving the tree people to fend off the military "They got this, that guys like a leader and stuff, there's no way they'll die horribly or fail to come together under an untested Chief." He monologued as he potentially dooms them all so he can hide in "Definitely not Samoa." He is a cardboard cutout that someone paid millions of dollars to hire and took 13 years to write nothing interesting for.

[@Z-GRADT]

I can see him going native. There was all the stuff about learning the language and bonding with the flying monster. I bet he makes out with that tree at some point.

[@buddycider3670]

My favourite part is where they went and fought alongside the Navi at the end, but when they came to the surface after being underwater it was only the Sully family left. Where’d the rest of the Navi go?? The leaders had a daughter who was a hostage as well, but you seen them alive and well at the end. What happened? Did they just decide to call it a day and let the Sully’s handle it?

[@FamousDave2186]

At first I was going to give the benefit of the doubt but then I remembered that ship was going down why didn't the rest of them come to help then

[@randyquaid3381]

Yes this was my biggest problem with the movie and definitely the most obvious plothole. The leader of the Samoan Navi even said they wanted to kill all the people on that boat, but then they just disappeared before that happened?

[@randyquaid3381]

@@FamousDave2186 Everyone I saw the movie with thought the same thing it was a huge oversight

[@Fujtajblus]

The CGI team was limited due to the low amount of the aqua blue color left for the other Na'vis so they could not put them in more scenes.

[@randomly_random_0]

Cameron said he deleted 10 mins of gun violence in that movie. I assume that's the scenes where the remaining Metkayina tribe was murdered by the RDA

[@anthonydaquino5425]

SPOILER ALERT: So, did anyone besides me notice how in the final battle the water tribe just magically disappears during the battle? Despite their princess daughter not being rescued in safety yet? Literally watching, and watching jake and gamora attack the ship and all that ots epic. But where was the water tribe army? That scene was awesome, but would have been a lot easier if they had 50 others with them?!?

[@Dherkin_McGhurken]

Jake had to learn the hard way to not trust the water tribe, they're the ones that convinced the fire nation to attack the air temple in the first place.🙃

[@Icarus-l8z]

The fire nation attacked them

[@dfddsfer4tv4g4b]

Good observation

[@balintkovacs4089]

Along with the deus ex whale who was just chilling until the boat compeletely sank instead of helping our heroes escape it. But yes, exactly my thoughts. Although I wouldn't call the final combat scene "epic" per se. "Video game" would be a more accurate description: They stealth their way through the sinking boat, all enemies they kill die without a sound or reaction from their pals, the "thoughest soldiers of the army" who made but the evil Avatars fell just as easily as any human grunt both here and back in the jungle, and everybody conveniently walked by the fact that most humans on the boat were whalers, not actual soldiers, against an ex-marine and his amazon wife who are both 3 times as big and strong as a human. Even Quarich didn't put up that much of a fight. And literally none of the native people except the plot device son were killed in the final battle. In this regard Cameron was braver in the first Avatar movie, where the casualties mounted on both sides and the humans actually came pretty close to winning until mother nature showed up. Here it's just two people with a disproportionate advantage in combat killing essentially working class people and a few soldiers who are useless anyway.

[@anthonydaquino5425]

Thats another point! Half if not most of the humans were fisherman?!? Like i get they were kinda hijacked by the small military group. But after a certain point wouldn’t the whalers draw s line. “No mr giant blue man, i will not chase innocent native children in my crab suit ???” Or “hey we are under attack by 50 native people, and all we have harpoons and fishing poles, im going to leave now and/or surrender. Im not a soldier” But nope. Theyr shooting concussion bombs at 15 yr old kids?!?! The fishermen were! Not the soldiers!!

[@ben_1]

At least Cameron had a somewhat in-universe explanation for bringing back Cpt Quidditch, unlike some other main bad guy I could think of that fell in a hole, exploded and then exploded again.

[@Narcan885]

Ok, but it's still bad. The only reason they brought him back was because the actor that played the colonel was damn cool and easily and by far the most charismatic character in the first movie. So they tought they'd do ctrl-c ctrl-v for the second movie, only that they didn't realize that in his navi form he's just another elongated smurf just like everyone else and has zero stand out traits and charisma. Oh and there's also the big plot hole of them trying to portay his death as a big deal, when they can literally implant his consciousness into an infinite number of navis, so why would one of the copies dying be a big deal.

[@BanditLeader]

@@Narcan885 also hes a racist towards na'vi, so he would never ever want to be put into one of their bodies. and since humans have the ability to grow human-navi clone bodies, why the heck didnt they just grow a human clone body of the guy

[@anttikettunen8601]

"The teen drama stuff drags on for so long that the whole plot basically stops dead in the water" I see what you did there.

[@CreatorsHand]

As I was reading your comment he literally was saying what you wrote at the same time 😂😂😂

[@Vile_Entity_3545]

He didn’t do nothing. Just sometimes things happen. You are looking too much into it.

[@GK-bl4pg]

@@Vile_Entity_3545 it's so obvious that he did something, that your comment is just sad.

[@johncra8982]

That was so clever, I tipped my fedora to that line. Definitely gonna use that one, bc of how clever it was.

[@killianmiller6107]

I SEA what you did there Fixed it for ya

[@masterkriebel]

It's ironic that Cameron also directed Aliens, which is (in my opinion) the pinnacle of tight script and using each minute effectively.

[@user-th4bu2jq6f]

SEASON GREETINGS🎄YOUR KZbin PROFILE WAS SELECTED 🫵CONTACT ME FOR YOUR REWARD ❤️……..

[@kylel7158]

Also the Abyss is similar in that regard imo

[@kylel7158]

@@randomly_random_0 while I don't think it's necessarily complex (also no one stated that it was lol) I don't think it's nostalgia making that film so good - objectively, it really is good; the atmosphere, the action, the theme, the set pieces - all quality that still hold up to today

[@cineryy]

@@randomly_random_0 Dude the alien universe shits on avatar lol

[@chriskasatka2095]

That's exactly how you should be describing The Terminator, the original and best one.

[@slinkerdeer]

3:03 "How exactly do they plan to colonise a planet where they can't even breathe the air without dying? *DON'T KNOW* 🤷‍♂️" Best and most hilarious part of the video

[@chaitanya737]

Yeah just like elon musk trying to colonise us on Mars where we can't live without space suits, right?

[@Neags]

I assume he just carried the same logic from LV-426 in atmospheric processing, but not bothering to explain how....

[@shayla106]

@@chaitanya737No, not the same. We are not fighting against aliens while also trying to colonize a planet we can’t breathe on. Also, we don’t have to deal with a living sentient planet (plant) unlike in the movies.

[@PerpetuusTenebris]

Terraforming!

[@Fankas2000]

Its free real estate, don't question it.

[@mrdood6209]

the really complicated part is that they put *tons* of effort into the lore of Avatar for the first movie (there's literally a book that was put out, & a wiki that goes over pretty much every detail... they even created a new language & music (though they didn't use the music in the end)), but then they ended up with a debatably formulaic plot

[@worsethanhitlerpt.2539]

Cameron made Terminator and Aliens I dont care how many terrible movies he does after I am just thankful for those 2. Bad movies are just like traffic noise at this point

[@jomahawk7488]

You want to know what the most unbelievable part of the movie was for me? The fact that no matter what they were doing, no matter how fast things are moving or how hard they are fighting, the female blue aliens chest coverings never fall off or get damaged.

[@jeanpaulchristian3282]

Yeah the green "I see you" chick never has a wardrobe malfunction. Way hotter than any human basic bitch woman

[@breakingthewall2112]

Indeed, maybe sticky nipple covers

[@jordangreen7191]

Maybe they're like little pasties that stick on 😂

[@elijahahmed568]

Merry early Christmas Drinker!!!! Thank you for making such good reviews and watching bad movies and series and giving your honest and whole hearted opinions while backing them up.

[@sirequinox4874]

As I've said many times before, Hollywood is in dire need of story editors.

[@pinheadlarry8006]

Hollywood is in dire need of a carpet bombing.

[@ashraile]

Overall a 7/10 for me. "A father protects his family", that was a really good message. Yeah there were parts that felt like they could have used trimming or at least a better screenplay, and there were some obvious retcons, but I did enjoy the film. I actually liked the teen drama stuff as well. Eventually movies and moviemakers will figure out how to make 3 hour+ movies with perfect pacing, we'll get there eventually. The soundtrack and visuals were amazing as well.

[@christianmiracle55]

DM ME 🎁🎁👆👆.

[@slvrshore5300]

that's way too much. it's 5-6 at most, visuals we're pretty and pacing not bad but that's all. the story was filled with pretty much every cliché from bad guys missing every cliché to bad guy making stupid decisions over and over

[@torsteinbratli]

"A father protects hia family" as supposed to what

[@retardedvelociraptor]

The perfect pacing has been done already. You should check out the Fellowship of the Ring.

[@ashraile]

@@retardedvelociraptor Indeed although I meant in the context of longer movies becoming mainstream, not just exceptions like the pinnacle of modern cinema that is LOTR.

[@johnenigma8506]

You know James Cameron could've just written books over the past 13 years for how he invested he was in this universe.

[@artnull13]

Could have made a fortune in YA novels 😂

[@peppersaltsman6044]

Dude, a Disney plus show about the adventures of Jake and Neytiri over that 10 year gap would have been perfect to get us interested and vested into the characters. A lot of the issues with the plot of the movies would have been overlooked on Disney plus

[@owyemen9367]

Like literally any fantasy video game ever

[@SteveCossaboom]

Or ... gone onto KZbin and blathered endlessly on it for 13 years! "James' BlueYarn VodCast!"

[@robinthrush9672]

@@owyemen9367 It really does remind me of the plummet in quality the Final Fantasy series took. "Look at how pretty 13 is!" "Yeah, but I have no choices to make, little control, an auto-pilot, and terrible characters."

[@cliffordterrell2681]

All I have to say is that my only problem is the length of the movie. For sure that I couldn't careless about the teenage drama that we have seen a million times. But it's funny that I didn't have issues like that growing up. Bottom line the movie made me smile multiple times. And with all the really bad writing of today's Hollywood story makers I am glad that they didn't screw this up completely.

[@olderalt.4066]

yeah I saw Avatar 2 yesterday and I really liked it! It felt like the movie was like 3 hours long but overall I loved the movie, the characters and the theme. I knew even if the movie was bad, I would still love it because the first Avatar movie is hands down my favorite movie ever.

[@lennyztrobos8678]

I saw two flaws; It felt like it could have been half an hour shorter and still be the exact same movie, and Sigourney Weaver being casted as a teenager was extremely distracting. A big plus is you can see on screen that its a product of love, instead of just bitter cynicism. It really look like a passion project, and I enjoyed it just for that.

[@skyracer8249]

Why the people in this channel like to adopt the drinker's way of speak, you just used a lot of the phrases he usually uses and most people in this section do that too... Maybe I'm getting crazy... Oh well go away now XD

[@cliffordterrell2681]

@@skyracer8249 okay now that is funny

[@majesticed9329]

Funnily enough I didn't even feel the time passing

[@Ahriela]

I'mma be real, I haven't watched a film in months, but I often come here to hear The Drinker talk about them. It's almost like a news report at this point. 😆

[@westaussie965]

I’mma??💁

[@adventurerretro3766]

Same here.

[@thenoobgamer95]

Fucking hell, uh... i.. think it's the same for me. I've just been watching series this whole time man.. Can't even remember the last time i watched a movie online this year.... if any..

[@runek100]

Well, I actually saw this one and was bored af. But yeah all those shit shows like hulk woman or whatever it is called. I can't bring myself to watch it, but I love watch it burn with drinker commentary on top of that. Like his reviews are actually more entertaining that most of those shows.

[@AfrowBass]

I sat in the cinema thinking “The Drinker is gonna rip SpiderBoy to shreds” ha haha

[@somemoresmors]

Everytime SpiderBoy spoke, I went out of the immersion of the movie. Just like how Hermione pulls you out of the immersion every time she speaks in the Harry Potter movies.

[@srialekhyananduri7036]

I actually don't hate Spider saving Quartich in the end. it makes sense because of what he has been seeing and how Quartich let Kiri go for him when Neyteri threatened Quartich to kill his son for the death of her own son. I was really surprised to see Spider not going with Quartich after that. Can he really trust his adopted family after that?? I would love to see how this changes Spider and how it can make for a compelling story if used properly. Spider's loyalty towards his adopted family who for the most part do care for him (Like Jake and the kids) and the father who surprisingly cared for him and who he had started to create a bond with (Quartich)

[@ArmedandDangerous918]

Spider-Man was not in this movie

[@jjones9822]

I would chime in with my opinion but I just can’t bring myself to watch a $250million dollar cartoon. Sorry guys.

[@shaggymanson5375]

they all seemed to ignore that fact that natiri or what ever just threatend to kill spider and looked crazy enough todo it.... Seems alot got added in last min. Also visualy seemed like alot of effort was put into the first 10-20 min then they gave up on quality control after that. Seems very rushed. For me nothing happened in this film.... for an ocean full of life it seemed barron and didnt spend alot of time. Would have made more sense for the humans to have comeback but tried mineing underwater and the goal being to stop destroying the ocean enviroment not stop them fishing.....

[@fyfyi6053]

The first Avatar film, (the one from 2008,) is so woke, that even Mike Stoklasa pointed out as Mr Plinkett

[@hanburgundy4317]

Hmm, tough choice. On the one hand, you have your family who adopted you that you've known for over a dozen years that love you and only ever killed the bad guys. Or The bad guys, one of whom just happens to be your birth father... kind of.

[@harrisonpritchett7538]

Dude Spider was way better than I thought he’d be. Acting could improve absolutely but the character and his motivations seemed reasonable given his background and upbringing. I can definitely see him going further towards Quaritch if Neytiri continues to demonize him

[@Shlogger]

only even remotely interesting part of the whole thing.and it wasn't even great. lol. but it was something. everything else was beautiful forgotten frames.

[@tomasburian6550]

I think he was thrown in to give the main bad guy a bit more depth and make the story a bit more complicated. The character was a lot like Jake from the first film, torn between two peoples. I'd say the idea behind him was good.

[@llamasmeowing2061]

Right, I felt so bad for him

[@stephenv1832]

It was hard to feel bad for him in any way, when something bad happens to him specifically and the plot kinda comes to a halt to take time to spotlight him, it feels slow and forced, his scenes with his clone daddy are an example of what could've been cut to slim down the movie's 3 hour run time, and give the story better pacing

[@tomasburian6550]

@@stephenv1832 I found it really odd that they were supposed to be related but not really, it made me feel like it was some unfinished idea that didn't lead anywhere. There didn't seem to be any point to it.

[@curtishammer748]

"Most people are dumb, and don't like to be challenged intellectually or emotionally... James Cameron isn't a lousy screenwriter, he might in fact be a fucking genius of some kind." - Mike Stoklasa; Mr Plinkett's Titanic Review

[@Verebazs]

Mike would know about people being dumb. He's the single dumbest human on the planet, to the point that his followers have subhuman intellect.

[@mackychloe]

He was a genius.

[@SilverShadow02]

The modern film for a modern audience. Is entertainment just not worthy of artistic talent anymore, rather dumbed down and simplified for the average consumer? The trend says yes, and few directors are willing to make a film that respects an audiences' intelligence and uses visuals to tell the story instead of constant exposition.

[@halogeek6]

@@SilverShadow02 and then they call ist and phobe when the insult they call a movie flops. Becuase personal accountability is hard, you know?

[@ShmoofWB]

Mr. Plinkett came to mind while watching this. Glad I'm not alone in this.

[@thomaswinther3869]

"Anyway after about three f*cking ice ages the script remembers that there's supposed to be other stuff going on" that almost killed me

[@erickay123]

I just LOL'd and had to pause.

[@UnofficialName]

Quaritch randomly now having a child, a spare avatar, and his consciousness on backup was Resident Evil levels of contrived; as was Grace's avatar being randomly pregnant and giving birth to Sigourney Weaver. If that is the level of writing we can expect going forward, we might as well bring Michelle Rodriguez back and claim it's her twin sister.

[@picafresas1182]

So accurate 😂😂😂😂

[@tipsyt1909]

I mean… I’m here for it if it means we get more Michelle lol at this point, with the stuff you described, who cares? Give me all the contrivances lol

[@lowdownone]

You would expect a budget of $250 million guarantees against forced and contrived plot killers…..but here we are

[@DialloMoore503]

Word. I couldn’t have said it any better.

[@KaosNova2]

What’s funny is that they initially offered Edward Norton the role of an all-new villain in Avatar but he chose to be the arch-villain Desty Nova in the Battle Angel Movie, but then they made the villain from Avatar 1 just like Desty Nova anyways.

[@JohnJohn-fe6yc]

I'm wondering if there are 5 planned movies if these first two are just world building and the rest will hopefully be more story driven? Because as of right now the series as a whole doesnt even really have a clear objective. Like Take the simple premise of LOTR. The objective is simple evil is coming destroy the ring. What is the objective of the Avatar franchise what does it all mean or lead up to? Its more like a slice of life anime than anything else honestly.

[@codewraith1]

I thought it was pretty obvious. No sky people allowed on Pandora. However, I can see in the final movie they'll have some type of agreement to share Pandora. I'd very much rather see a full blown massacre on one side or the other though.

[@andresantos3487]

I dont know how they plan to make 5 movies around the same story. Because the second movie was the repeat of the first one, exept they now fight in the sea instead of the forest lol

[@aayush_789]

The weird daughter basically represents Jesus in this story. Eventually a bunch of Avatars will go to Earth to teach humans how to live harmoniously with nature and save earth from destruction. Entire books have been written for the world building of Avatar, the clothing, unique music , detailed wildlife species, even a new language was created out of scratch, that's the amount of world building done to establish Pandora. Even the solar system of Pandora is accurately modeled for it's eclipses, the spaceships and war robots are also practically designed with engineering concepts and not fantasy-scifi like Marvel. This Avatar was long, to give people the immersive experience of world of Pandora, but alas attention span of people have reduced to 30sec Tiktoks.

[@aarronmitchels2934]

Cameron said this was his exact plan... eventually spanning out into a Star Wars like universe.

[@TacoMan99]

@@aayush_789 that last part is one of the biggest reasons a movie like this is struggling. 👏 This movie feels like a Star Wars episode 1. Not the story we want right now but when we have a series of movies to reflect on, the way of the water is going to be a great origin story for the family.

[@ashleyarlo]

Loved the focus on fatherhood in Avatar 2. It had great traditional themes like honor, family, trust, bravery, etc. Way better than most modern garbage. I don’t mind the environmental angle. There is some truth in it.

[@AimForMyHead81]

Finally! A logical person!

[@digitaldruglord1815]

There's A LOT of truth to the environmental angle of the movie. People just don't want to face it

[@JT-hk9ur]

You're definitely a conservative. Never met one that fully believes in environmentalism.

[@ophanimangel3143]

@@digitaldruglord1815 LOL that humans are bad and Navi are noble savages?

[@digitaldruglord1815]

@@ophanimangel3143 ayyy there you go but I do have a feeling that James will explore the darker side of the Na'vi in future films

[@questerperipatetic4861]

We had blue people in the jungle forest robbed of blood diamonds, then green people in the water robbed of ambergris. Coming for Part three, Orange people who ride worms in the dessert and the evil white men (with one Asian woman again) who want to steal a miraculous substance called "Spice".

[@lonestar6709]

_"Military bad... Trees good."_ Nice story, Jim.

[@paulhsu1481]

Water good this time. Jim is smart.

[@Сайтамен]

"War bad. Home good. Nice story, Tolkien". "Dictatorship bad. Revolution good. Nice story, Lucas". "Atheism bad. Faith good. Nice story, Lewis". See, I can do it with everything. Hail nigilism!

[@mitkoogrozev]

Well, you're not wrong. Military are bad , and trees are good :D.

[@josuesolisgamboa]

@@Сайтамен At least Tolkien's point is kinda hard to disagree with imo

[@ironmonkey1512]

The public laps this stuff up, yet elects congress that give the military a trillion dollar budget.

[@nslater1388]

I believe that the story in the Avatar films are the excuse to explore this world Cameron has invented. Basically, Pendora came first, and the story is used as a reason to explore the various aspects of this world, similar to how Tolkien invented the languages of Middle-Earth first, then wrote the story after. Personally, I’m fine with the simple morality tale with character that aren’t necessarily the most developed, but that I can get behind because I understand where they are emotionally and they are still fighting to achieve peace in their lives. And, bonus, the film wasn’t bogged down with “The Message”.

[@whatsa635]

*SEASON'S GREETINGS* ⛄ Thanks for watching!! *I've picked you amongst my random console contest winners please write me on my official Telegram above* ✍🏼MERRY CHRISTMAS ⛄

[@BDarOZ]

id say it all began even before that, when roger dean album covers caught James Cameron's eyes, probably when he was in his teens

[@TheHilariousGoldenChariot]

Yes, I feel as if the movies are made for their visuals, story comes second. The story brings out specific emotions to help amplify the effects that the visual produce. The entire thing is setup to make you envoy and admire the visuals, and in my opinion these are some of the best I’ve seen, just stunning.

[@BWMagus]

Unless you consider preachy environmentalism as just a different message. And Tolkien spent years and years fleshing out his world in his notes, before he started writing for publication. He really nailed it down. Cameron made shit look cool and...that's it. I've seen porn rendered in Blender that had thought put into it.

[@WesleyHill-md5cg]

I watched a video on Avatar some time ago by Pilgrim's Pass. He pointed out that the movie could have benefited from some historical realism to give the humans more depth. The scenario he outlined was essentially a Halo crossover in which Master Chief is fighting against the Na'vi only to protect the human mining operations because the mineral (he referred to it as up-uranium) is desperately needed to bolster humanity's defense in the war against the Covenant. I like it as a concept because it gives the antagonists of the film a sympathetic motivation. You could even have scenes in which the human marines regret the fact that they need to fight these hapless natives when the real war is being fought elsewhere.

[@antonakesson]

I mean they already have a good hook in the fact earth is fucked and Pandora is the only habital planet they know they can reach. That already is a good morally complex scenario, Yes they do evil but if it is necessery for humanities survival then what else are they suppose to do? That should be focused on as humanities reason for evil rather then just plain greed. It is boring when such a simple reason repeats.

[@Сайтамен]

@@antonakesson You don't need to mine a habital planet. It's a rock, go search asteroids.

[@Сайтамен]

They do have those scenes. Like Trudy refusing to shoot the Navi or Hammond looking devastated by the tree being destroyed.

[@antonakesson]

@@Сайтамен It was not about mining that i meant but to live on the planet. As said in the movie, Earth is fucked and humanity needs a new home.

[@simokoistinen276]

I missread that "Master Chief" part as Master Chef and instantly imagined Gordon Ramsay fighting against Na´vi

[@GarryParker]

My favourite part of the film was the scene where Neytiri was on the sunken ship, covered in blood, breathing hard, almost feral, having just butchered a bunch of bad guys and Spider was too scared to even show himself to her. It reminded me of the scene in T2 where Sarah breaks out of prison. James Cameron really is a master of protreying strong women.

[@WouterSuren]

Dude I totally agree. That's the only scene that I actually watched back after the movie ended. So sick.

[@seraby7151]

James Cameron is oddly better at writing women. Even though overall his writing is on the cheese and actionhero-y side.

[@Knorssman]

my favorite character is the scientist man who gets to be the "sympathetic human" because he's a scientist who talks about how much better the whales are compared to humans but also is tasked with narrating the whaling operation for the audience for some reason, and then manages to escape being decapitated but is still presumed dead!

[@MedskiPurnamski]

@@dianashepherd3241 Jermaine Clements' character? Nah. Jake Sully himself is Cameron's self insert avatar.

[@SpartyCubsFan]

Please tell us the character resembled Anthony Fauci? Please let this be true!!

[@hubertcumberdale2651]

They killed the crass Aussie actor, and saved his Kiwi sidekick. Lol

[@luryknadel]

That part where he mocked the whaler saying "who has the harpoon now" was actually mind boggling to me... HELLO you are on the same ship, why are you mocking the guy who is fighting the whale thats trying to kill you all?

[@gunnar6674]

@@luryknadel Yeah, worst character in the movie. Way worse than Spider. Grace in the first movie knew that her research was funded by the mining work, but it was much more morally gray than this whaling operation. (By the way, Japan, Norway and Canada still do whaling, but they do it for the meat.)

[@jonathandavis3642]

Ironically, when the Aliens were the bad guys, the queen had more personality than any of the humans in Avatar(s).

[@janmajer4662]

What personality did the queen exactly had? Trying to kill Ripley? Laying down eggs? Anything else? You are just trying to be funny or something buddy... Or you just try to ride the cool "hating Avatar" wave. In the first Avatar the humans had different personalities. Sure, it's not GoT or Godfather or whatever you like, but they did.

[@CanadianPale]

Butthurt Avatar fan is butthurt.

[@judi1009]

@@janmajer4662 ah yes, personalities such as The Woman soldier #1 or Soldier avatar #2, of course honourable mention to the Corporate Manager #1 from scene 10 or the Weird Heroine Fiance that has alot of fanfiction written about

[@cck4863]

@@janmajer4662 Care for her soldiers, her eggs, conflict on whether or not to endanger her life to go after Ripley or stay back and just count her loses

[@thermonuclearcollider4418]

@@janmajer4662 You kidding? Despite being a giant, biomechanical insectoid with no eyes but a lot of fangs and claws, you could tell that she was a mother caring for her offspring: Ripley even managed to threaten her by simply pointing a flamethrower to ONE of her many eggs. And she let out a giant scream every time one her drones got blown to pieces. That's a lot of personality for what was supposed to be a movie monster.

[@whyjay9959]

Haven't seen the movie, but it's hard to imagine a situation where the technology and resources that would allow us to fully establish ourselves in an alien planet and emigrate there en masse couldn't more easily be used to fix Earth or rework civilization to cope with the changes.

[@Yoriichi_Sengoku]

good one

[@mediocreman2]

Yeah this movie is just ripe with anti-human agenda. Which is very odd. They could have easily chosen a non human antagonist.

[@albertoalvarez2452]

nuclear aftermath...

[@ViciousVitiate]

Everytime I see an arrow go through a canopy i just go 'what' modern day canopies can ping a 50cal shot. Yet a big whale can ping an explpsive tipped harpoon. Come on james.

[@Briaaanz]

​@@mediocreman2 anti human? Seemed more anti-corporation again. They had humans in both movies that were represented as "good"

[@Corlwow]

Despite it being the most predictable thing ever: neyteri, spider and quaritch’s relationship and one character death make the last scene a little less simple happy ever after than the first film (hence sequel set up.) And i would say there was again a human population that were good. The marine biologist on the whaler team was oddly amusing, i wish we had more of him as he clearly hated everyting he was doing but was going along with it cause he needed the money for his research.

[@Ebalosus]

Still want to know why they gave him a hokey American accent when his Australian counterpart got to remain Australian. My guess is that to foreign ears Australian and NZ accents are the same. To my ears I can tell the difference, like when some of the child Na’vi extra slip back into their NZ accents, lmao.

[@msalvarez74]

I loved it. Watched it in 3D with my nephew. My nephew is usually, quite literally "bored" all the time, but with Avatar, he was all in. We're planning to watch it again this coming weekend.

[@guyoncouch8796]

They apparently left Spider on Pandora because babies can't be put into Cryosleep so he's only ever known Pandora, but this also raises even more questions about the how and why of him.

[@broco1163]

And it's weird because writers can do or say anything they want. They didn't need to say that babies can't be put in cryosleep, they only said that because they wanted the Spider character to exist. So I agree, it begs the question of why? They're trying to insert a father/son dynamic for the villain, but the villain is dead and doesn't have a son. So what should we do now? Magic retcon bullshit go!

[@alexanderkempf9828]

@@broco1163 The fact that the villain is dead but still has feelings for his son is way more interesting than just a father/son dynamic. It leaves room for betrayal and ambiguity. The baby cryosleep thing doesn't "raise questions". It's just a detail they added in. People try so hard to hate this movie, it's weird.

[@bunny_the_lifeguard9789]

So the mask grew with his skull?

[@Las_cacas]

@@alexanderkempf9828 I had a few quips with the movie, like why did the water tribe disappear mid end battle. i didnt like how smart the whales were nor how they could understand sign language... although they did mention how smart they were in the movie. I also didnt like how one of them all of sudden had the power to control nature around her.... but overall i did like the movie. I'd even watch it again.

[@alexanderkempf9828]

@@bunny_the_lifeguard9789 what?

[@killer3000ad]

I thought the movie was good... but the show could easily be shaved down to 2 hours. One key weak part of the story was Sully's decision to flee from the forest after one skirmish with Quarich. I mean he was waging an effective guerilla war for a year and causing headaches for the humans then he gets spooked after one fight and basically abandons his adopted forest tribe to the mercies of the humans.

[@samwallaceart288]

He's scared of Quaritch hunting him specifically because he knows how much a one-man-army the guy is. What's bullshit is that leaving protects _him,_ it does fuckall to protect the forest people.

[@PeteQuad]

They could have shaved it down, but would you want them to? I, for one, really enjoyed watching all the details portrayed and would happily sit down for another hour right now.

[@thereisnosanctuary6184]

Imagine the Blu Ray Directors cut with deleted scenes

[@meatsweatmundungus6415]

The point is that he realises that they are specifically hunting his tribe because he is there, he protects them by leaving

[@tsavage4337]

@@samwallaceart288 the forest people aren’t just gonna be murdered though because sully left. Plus what was he gonna do anyway?

[@battle247]

Great review! The whole story line just felt so simple, like something from a children's book...and I personally am growing so weary of the 'humanity=cancer' trope..I mean why in the hell would we land a ship on a planet when we knew the resulting splash from the thrusters would burn hundreds of acres of perfectly usable forest?...no one in thier right mind would do that, and that's just one of many examples of just on the nose painting of humanity as evil in this movie

[@sgd5k292]

Yeah, I agree with you on this...burning all that forest was unnecessary, however, I thought the ships thrust used as brakes to slow down in space was awesome. Quite realistic, more so than in most other SF movies.

[@jeffersonhassan4558]

I think the thrust burning the forest is realistic especially when we know primary succession will colonize the already damaged land, it's not something that was intentional but it needed to happen

[@markustran777]

It makes sense if you want to cultivate the land and make farm land

[@ElliYeetYT]

As soon as I saw that scene where Spider saves the Colonel so that he could survive for the next movie, I instantly thought “Well the Drinker Will hate this, lol.”

[@lumenx7499]

It was a stupid choice but I understood it since the Colonel basically saved his life. It will add tension and set up lots of future conflict in later movies.

[@Lord-Commissar]

Spider is horribly misunderstood by most KZbin reviewers. In my opinion, he's one of the best characters because of his own internal conflicts and his identity crisis. The last hiss he gives Quaritch at the end is far better than if he actually said a long monolog. Showing is always better than telling. Let the audience figure it out. Also, I think the acting was great from everyone. The dialogue is wooden, but effective and the story is simple, kind of silly at some points, but I overall really loved this movie. Probably the best family movie in recent memory. We got a strong Father and loving, fierce mother for the sequels.

[@tomgu2285]

@@Lord-Commissar yep realy love the movie. Can't wait for the sequels 👌.

[@Kuldirongaze1]

@@lumenx7499 but why? Just make a new villian for a new movie already.

[@riftvallance2087]

@@Lord-Commissar I feel like they were beginning to set up a redemption arch for The colonial over reconnecting with his lost son but they don't really deliver on the idea. Maybe it was a plan for the sequel

[@davidhernandez8984]

It is crazy to watch a critical drinker video with out hearing him say “the message” 😂

[@jbrisby]

You can get your fix from Paul Joseph Watson now that he's started ripping it off.

[@heinzlilio4612]

I love how they predicted the humans to be this terrifying mechanical force of nature in every bit of screentime they have but they somehow get overwhelmed by a bunch of tribal savages who stole high grade guns but barely even used them aside from Jake EDIT: I am not responsible for the absolute shitfest that occurs in this side of the comments section

[@Сайтамен]

And by giant armoured whales.

[@antoinecyr2833]

Well to be fair we some European expedition did get kick of island by the natives in the past….but then again such expedition crew didn’t had automatic weapon, assault helicopter and mechsuits they just had shitty muskets and we’re probably extremely tired of their sea travel . (And then again the one that got beaten were the explorer , if a country decided to send a regiment of soldier then the native tended to get beaten quite easily .)

[@rear9259]

It would be hard to fight a bunch of giants with guns who came swinging out of the trees

[@randomhuman97]

@@alexandergreene461 so the extinction of the dodos was NOT due to the colonial invaders?

[@kennethfocarino7075]

Yeah that was weird. The Naavi in the first movie were out manned and out gunned, and had to use a mix of human and tribal tech and tactics to defeat the humans. It was really dire. In this movie, the naavi seemed to be in no danger whatsoever, and everytime they run into humans, they absolutely smoke them. The stakes were shockingly low, which is fine in a vacuum, but in the context of the first movie it just shouldn’t be that way. We have tech NOW that could defeat the Naavi, let alone 150 years in the future. Somehow humans can stop aging, and clone themselves, but they still use boats with gas powered engines lol.

[@daniellabra4186]

..."And a partridge in a pear tree". Drinker, that made my day and my week. Absolutely unexpected and so Xmas-ish

[@user-is7xs1mr9y]

the best joke in the review for me

[@johncra8982]

Honestly, he made my month and my year. I'd even say he made my life. Truly a hero and a gentleman scholar. I salute him and thank him for his service 🫡

[@tymoteuszbryx249]

I think it’s like Chris Gore said on Open Bar 30 - it’s stupid and predictable, but we haven’t gotten anything resembling positive father figure, heartfelt family relationships for so long… we are so starved for that that it trumps the predictability of the movie. And it is gorgeous. And yes, I think if the human angle would be a bit more nuanced it could make for a far better movie.

[@lumenx7499]

I don’t think it’s a stupid movie at all. Most of the themes hit hard. Although whaling is no longer prevalent, shark finning is. Where they take only the shark fin and waste everything else. Rather than seeing it as just a metaphor for ‘save the whales’ I prefer to look at it as wastefulness and disregard for the sanctity of nature instead.

[@tymoteuszbryx249]

@@lumenx7499 I quite agree. My answer was superficial. What I meant is not really stupid, more like shallow. Like the scene of landing of “Sky people”. Why would they hover with rocket engines burning the ground and lower those Lech’s onto crackling l, melting ground? But yes, I agree. Simplistic as it is, it hits hard. It works. Maybe if we’d be getting more movies like that it wouldn’t stand out as much, but it does.

[@lumenx7499]

@@tymoteuszbryx249 I agree that it definitely was meant to ram it into our heads that the humans were bad, but man it was effective. As an animal lover, seeing all those animals die was sad. Plus, the thing that added the most tension to the fight scenes for me was big whale boy, I just didn’t want my boy dying lol. It definitely isn’t a perfect movie but I just feel it’s getting a lot of undeserved hate because it was big budget and from Disney. I like your outlook though!

[@Revan-eb1wb]

@@lumenx7499 sounds lame and hamfisted

[@jp3813]

Positive father figure? Pretty sure Jake had to learn the lesson of actually listening to his wife (make a stand instead of running) and appreciating his son's disobedience (given the rescue at the end). Plus, Quaritch represents a negative father figure.

[@ProgrammedForDamage]

You raised the exact same problem I had with it. Humans settling on Pandora because Earth is dying is morally complex and risks audiences sympathising with them. Instead we get the cartoonishly avaricious space-whalers (who are so bad they might as well be kicking a puppy in every scene), and a newly minted Quaritch who is so hell bent on revenge for a death he didn't know happened that he is willing to risk countless lives for it. You could say it is his hubris, I call it lazy writing.

[@mxmlnlcdcdffmnt2232]

Humans settling on Pandora because Earth is dying is morally complex and risks audiences sympathising with them. I'm a human supremacist in the Avatar universe, the survival of humankind is such an important thing that every action the humans take is justified (but often stupid).

[@jimshonerd4226]

"Somehow Quaritch returned"

[@jeanpaulchristian3282]

Nah humans are exactly that way, a perfect example is how racist and hating humans are to tge "smurfs" might as well call them fuzzy wuzzies the way people refer to them and mock them and their culture and values, even talking to animals, the same hatred civilized australians have to indegenous. I loved this film, and the way the naysayers reacted to this film really did show me or expose to me how strongly and viscerally people reacted to this film, in a serious way, mocking and jeering the characters and story. I see this film as a prelide to the other sequels, I watched it twice on IMAX... People have no time as adults like we did as kids... This film would have sucked as a 2 hour film, sorry but for this chapter the length workednfor me.

[@DMrKunst2]

@@jeanpaulchristian3282 what's hilarious to me is how many people have this notion that humanity is overall good. It's not. Cartoonishly evil? We've had plenty nonsensical killing during Iraq and Afghanistan for nothing more than control & resources. But to this day people still like to pretend we were in the right. Not like that means every soldier should be condemned

[@LabiaLicker]

@@jeanpaulchristian3282 Oh no! Did someones ancestors suck at fighting??

[@Violetskate]

For all the work they put into the visuals I still felt like I was gonna die in the theater

[@ZwhatshQ]

Interesting. Personally I felt like the "90 minute dragged out teenage drama" part was the best part. The beginning of the movie introduced so many characters at once and had such wonky pacing I just did not get a grip at all for the movie. I didn't care at all for any of the characters up until the "90 minute dragged out teenage drama" point. Here I felt like we actually got some time to bond and care about the main cast of the film, because previously they were just thrown into the film over narration. The boat ending was definitely too long, but I still enjoyed it. Overall it was a solid film. I did not regret seeing it. And of course, it was just beautiful too look at.

[@richrobledo6561]

I agree! It how you learn about the character and understand that their issues of “fitting in” are very relatable We all understood what were going through

[@aayush_789]

Kiri the adopted daughter will carry the story as she represents Jesus in this world. Eventually a bunch of Avatars will go to Earth to teach humans how to live harmoniously with nature and save earth from destruction. Entire books have been written for the world building of Avatar, the clothing, unique music , detailed wildlife species, even a new language was created out of scratch, that's the amount of world building done to establish Pandora. Even the solar system of Pandora is accurately modeled for it's eclipses, the spaceships and war robots are also practically designed with engineering concepts and not fantasy-scifi like Marvel. This Avatar was long, to give people the immersive experience of world of Pandora, but alas attention span of people have reduced to 30sec Tiktoks.

[@Gankhisprawn]

This review perfectly explains my feelings towards it. I didn't hate the movie, it had a lot of cool parts and some interesting plots. Visually it was incredible. But then they throw in the 90 minute teen drama, and I just checked out of the movie and couldn't get back into when the final battle happens. It starts the race off strong, but then, like a frat boy after a 3 day bender in Vegas, it barely crawls across the finish line, covered in its own vomit of environmental porn. I don't hate the movie, but I certainly don't love it either. Its probably my least favorite James Cameron film to date. But that’s saying something since I don’t think any of his movies are bad. It was just an average film for James Cameron.

[@milosstojanovic4623]

You lack a taste in good movies, which this one is.

[@aishwariyasweety2433]

So many words to just say you have donkeys ability to appreciate art and good films. Loser.

[@jdub1742]

@@milosstojanovic4623 Trolling? Avatar 10/10 Avatar 2 4/10 at best.

[@BOZ_11]

@@jdub1742 you're silly. there's no way avatar 2 is an average film, especially in 2022. it's easily in the top 6 or 7 films released this year; my #1 is Maverick though

[@pokerface7061]

@@jdub1742 The first Avatar was very good. But Avatar 2 is definitely better than the first.

[@TheKillakan87]

I see where you're going about the humans in the film, but I did like that they made Quarich a bit more human. He's moved by Spider being his son to stop the General from torturing him, takes the kid on and even lets him influence him into not slaughtering any Navee at the first village; only burns their houses. And when the mom almost kills him, he first acts like he doesn't care then gives up to save Sipder's life. Spider probably figured he owed him one. This could open a door to a more nuanced look at the humans in the future. Maybe I'm just so darn surprised at seeing a pro-family, pro-fatherhood message in a movie for once! Honestly, I was so wowed by the human's mini-subs and mechs and shit that I kind almost rooted for the humans in both movies. In the mediocre video game that came out with the first movie I even played through it on the human's side...just to shoot some space-hippies...lol!

[@theshrikeer]

I just like seeing space Marines get whooped it's funny and one of my favorite sci Fi tropes. So I don't see it as a woke message like some people are saying it's just a fun sci-fi thing that you see in a bunch of other movies just presented differently here cause the aliens are the protagonist.

[@unimportant719]

@@theshrikeere problem is that if the antagonist are laughably easy to kill where even is the tension In the last battle literally only one of the protagonist got killed not even a random na’vi in the background (in Avatar 1 at least Humans were menacing enough because they firebombed the big tree and caused damages)

[@porkerpete7722]

@@unimportant719 agree the humans were comically bad. Plan:"to hunt a notorious warlord.... with a whale boat 🤔" helicopters getting 1 shot EVERYTIME

[@ramonandrajo6348]

And the movie still sucks, and?

[@mariano98ify]

By no means the games ubisoft made were mediocre, I had ton of fun, the games were like the maps of mgsV mixed with the gameplay of a battlefront in avatar setting. I loved the game.

[@tankeater]

4:58 "blue alien smirf people" had me DEAD 😂🤦‍♂️🤘

[@Ian-fb6er]

I agree the writing could have been better and I didn't get a lot of the antagonist's choices, but I really enjoyed it even just from how beautiful of a movie it was

[@aw98000]

The writing can always be better. Everything can always be better. Why the fuck do we need to constantly ruin everything by immediately thinking about what was wrong and how it could be better. Here's an idea for you, be better.

[@tyroneanderson5619]

@@aw98000 your standards must be pretty fuking low lol

[@JoePesos]

@@aw98000 so your grand idea is don't evaluate anything or look for ways to improve. With that thinking humans would still be living in caves because why think about the negatives of living in a cave or how to make things better just accept it and keep doing the same it's perfect.

[@brodieo7690]

@@aw98000 100%, it was a good film

[@Berd-Wasted.]

@@aw98000 *"Do not be Sorry, be Better."* - Dad of Boi.

[@ironmountain7907]

Someone should have made James Cameron make this into an episodic show that played out over, 10-12 episodes. He could’ve fit all the plot points he wanted and honestly made the story feel a lot less bloated.

[@flamelover1746]

Avatar is known for the big screen. Being put into another streaming show would've been a bit of a slap in the face.

[@boshankers12]

Bloated story?? There’s barely a story to it…

[@IntoleranceForStupidity]

I thought the same thing. It felt more like a mini series

[@joepagram8287]

I don’t think I could wait seventy years for an avatar tv show though 😂

[@IntoleranceForStupidity]

@@boshankers12 I think rushed is a better word. There were interesting plot points but they were all extremely shallow.

[@harrycrosswell2844]

I think the spider and his father plot could potentially lead the way to the nuance you mentioned regarding humans. Spider's life being threatened, and the clear relationship forming between father and son, could lead to a better investigation into humans, as well as revealing that the Naavi aren't as perfect as they seem.

[@comradejackal1917]

This is probably what is going to happen. From what I have read, on the next movie there will be an "evil" naavi tribe

[@lonewolf9578]

@@comradejackal1917 all I know is if they’re fire themed then Cameron is one element away from a lawsuit lol

[@comradejackal1917]

@@lonewolf9578 well, they are indeed fire themed

[@notallthatbad]

Good point. I think the actions of Quaritch in that standoff scene gave him some very much needed nuance and more depth than I'd expected. Should be an interesting series of sequels.

[@djsejwal2]

@lonewolf9578 there will be no lawsuits. Avatar airbender is pure rip off from hindu mythology.

[@FCTH597]

6:46 I beg to differ. Jake starts the movie running away from war to keep his family safe and ends up realising that he can’t run away from his peoples

[@ciaodatutti]

Went to see the movie with my wife and we both enjoyed the movie a lot. for us is was great and worth going to see in theaters. The part I preferred was the family dynamics. I can't remember the last block buster movie where there was a family unit with the male doing the father figure a female doing the mother figure and it all working together to complete each other to keep together the family unit. All the scifi and world building was great but not the main thing.

[@ToonfieldAnimations]

Just saw the movie myself: Things I loved about the movie: - taking the time for world building in the water part - the visuals are incredibly pleasing. - the new kids feeling like actual kids - the tech of the humans (even if it's meant for bad things, it's cool to see) - Some nice action scenes but still let the climax be more family based. Things I didn't like: - the 'on the nose' non-transparent environmental message - "human bad" and unredeemable. sometimes unnecessarily evil. I was surprised they made the commanding officer a woman and not another white man - the "kid bullies" trope. Yes it was brief but dang it's so cliche and outplayed and didn't fit here at all. - Some characters weren't given a lot of development. Neytiri felt like she was non-existent in some scenes with the family, and in other scenes was mostly either fuming angry or crying. (still a few cool bow scenes thankfully) - Expected they would've done more with the child relationship of the colonel, but at least a seed has been planted for the potential sequel.

[@alexandredesmarais3848]

I loved the visuals and the intense emotions this movie brought but there is one thing that really bothers me about it. It never feels like the bad guys have the upper hand unless they are fighting a small group of reckless kids. But as soon as an actual Na’Vi clan fights back, they get destroyed. I mean the humans have hyper advanced technology by this point, the Na’Vi might be physically superior but it should take the entire eco system of pandora to defeat them, not just one clan with bows and arrows riding beasts. The humans know what weapons the locals use. If we can make rivers able to resist conditions and landing on Mars today, we could absolutely make drones capable of resisting arrows that fire heat seeking projectiles. The overall human equipment should be much more powerful because not only does it make sense with the setting but it makes the movie more interesting. By making the good guys more powerful than the villains from the start, it kills a lot of the suspense. Also it justifies them having to move be to the islands because as the movie is, the kids only got in danger beca they were reckless and left the save spot. But despite this, the father acts like he can’t find any way to protect his family even though the humans clearly mentioned that they never came close to taking down the stronghold in which they were hiding.

[@marcel7922]

More criticisms: -Humans shoot like stormtroopers -Jake moves away from his tribe to protect it from humans only to move to another tribe to have it attacked. I thought the family would just move away from civilization for a while - shouldn't be a problem on a paradise like Pandora, right? -Cameron missed out on character development with the colonel - I thought him turning into an avatar and "speaking, acting and thinking like a Na'Vi" would change his mind on the Na'Vi and then eventually he would have to turn against the other humans, but he just has a one-track mind and the only thing he cares about is revenge against Jake and his son. Maybe Cameron just spent too much time on the water scenes and completely forgot about that whole human storyline halfway through.

[@GRACEP0128]

@@marcel7922 i cant agree with you more. I wish it had a dilema where , the reason humans are hunting tulkuns and try to take the resources is not just abt money but to save the earth? I get that its main message is abt "family stick together" or whatever, but srsly, it had to sacrifice a LOT of other factors because of that... (eg. If the colonel was so mad abt jake betraying humans, why is he not upset abt his own team getting killed? Even if theyre just avatars with planted consciousness, that doesnt mean that they dont have emotions (otherwise he wouldnt have cared abt spider at all) And when tulkun jumped up on the ship to save lo'ak, where did the whole tribe go???? They were just like: yup lets all just go home let them deal with it and thats it???... "family stick toghther" but it can also become "son to son" from time to time...? Serrrriously. what a shame... ) (it took wayyy too loooong to introduce the culture and habitat of the oceanic na'vi, i wish it was introduced ALONG with the plot, it wouldve made it alot smoother in my opinion at least....) ahhh...

[@chileanyways196]

The kids dialogue was so cringe sometimes too

[@aayush_789]

Kiri the adopted daughter will carry the story as she represents Jesus in this world. Eventually a bunch of Avatars will go to Earth to teach humans how to live harmoniously with nature and save earth from destruction. Entire books have been written for the world building of Avatar, the clothing, unique music , detailed wildlife species, even a new language was created out of scratch, that's the amount of world building done to establish Pandora. Even the solar system of Pandora is accurately modeled for it's eclipses, the spaceships and war robots are also practically designed with engineering concepts and not fantasy-scifi like Marvel. This Avatar was long, to give people the immersive experience of world of Pandora, but alas attention span of people have reduced to 30sec Tiktoks.

[@brittak5535]

I was half expecting that girl telling the boy in the sinking ship that “she will never let go”😭

[@streglof]

"Wanted man seeks refuge with local tribe, brings death and destruction on said tribe but refuses to leave and local tribe doesn't blame him one bit."

[@justforever96]

"man becomes leader of tribe because he is naturally more intelligent and stronger than the native men". Yet somehow no one in world or out had an issue with this.

[@joshuakern1274]

As a 40 something father of three I have to say, I really enjoyed it. I thought that they showed the difficulties of raising children well along with the desperation to keep them safe that every parent wrestles with. The kids parts didn't bother me, I didn't find it to be too woke, Spider didn't even feel contrived to me and I understood how he could make the choice in the end that he made. It's easy to say "Give up on your father(donor)" but for the person faced with a choice like that it's never that clear cut.

[@whatsa635]

*SEASON'S GREETINGS* ⛄ Thanks for watching!! *I've picked you amongst my random console contest winners please text me on my official Telegram above* ✍🏽MERRY CHRISTMAS ⛄

[@tsavage4337]

People thought the kid parts were woke?

[@joshuakern1274]

@@tsavage4337 I don't think so. I meant the movie as a whole with that statement. I think the media did it a disservice by making the movie out to be something it's not. Some of my friends did find the kids annoying though. Too much teen drama for them although it didn't seem that way to me. I have three daughters so the movie doesn't even begin to approach the level of teen drama I see.

[@richardbastow9200]

Agree with this Joshua, suprised myself by how much I enjoyed the film although I accept the drinker's criticisms. I think more could have been done with Spider's character but he was more of a wasted opportunity rather than an annoyance,

[@callingdrhyde]

@@tsavage4337 The movie as a whole with environmentalist message. But today environmental protection isn't that woke, maybe except of some aggressive vegans, but in general environmentalists don't blame other people and don't call them oppressors.

[@hoppa_2184]

9:29 Gonna disagree on that one. Spider (if I got that name right) did that choice for a reason. Heck, he got closer to his clone father figure over the course of the movie and that same clone father figure saved his life only moments earlier, showing that he actually really cared about him. Yes, it is a terrible decision for Spider to save him in the end, but the reluctance felt real, as much as him doing it then, while knowing it would cause tremendous problems later down the line.

[@danm5911]

Totally agree. I liked that moment a lot. For me it was a highlight of this movie and took it beyond the mere spectacle that many are labeling it with. That was a real 'movie' moment. The fact it's one of the ones we're all talking about is evidence of that.

[@GaryMillerUK]

Seems like it's really easy to undrown someone on Pandora!

[@tinker7492]

@@GaryMillerUK Avatar are not humans.

[@tairebriley8734]

Spider is probably gonna be the one that kills him

[@slimthugga1]

It seems like he’s more interested in the technology & the art of shooting a film as opposed to you know, creating a great story

[@MrAaaaazzzzz00009999]

well thats his choice then. a film's story doesn't have to be complicated or profound, maybe its the artistry that matters more for it

[@Littletime839]

And looking at the box office returns and audience feedback it appears to be working just fine

[@chieckenman4432]

"Haha funny high quality cgi go brr"

[@its_dey_mate]

@@MrAaaaazzzzz00009999 I suppose, but when you pour so much money into it, that the only way to make a profit would be if it made 2 billion at the box office then you better make sure you have not only pretty colours to look at, but also a script to go with that too.

[@Spiral81C1]

That's pretty much exactly how I felt about the first one....

[@savagedameron1075]

I actually really liked the movie. Not once did I feel it was to long. When it ended I was wanting more actually. It wasn’t all woke there was no LGBTQ gay shit in it. It was family focused making a father important and the leader while doing a fantastic job showing how badass and protective the mother could be. Really good balance really good film

[@pw1169]

I just got back from watching it, it was excellent! As you say, refreshing family focused message with an emphasis on fatherhood, nothing woke, no pc messages and it looked incredible. What an amazing film!

[@jeffersonhassan4558]

You just proved how homophobic the critical drinker's fanbase is and I was right

[@redjayyz6066]

@@jeffersonhassan4558 we do not care

[@jeffersonhassan4558]

@@redjayyz6066 you cared enough to comment

[@redjayyz6066]

@@jeffersonhassan4558 I’m saying we don’t care that it’s homophobic go cry

[@KairatIbrayev]

I read a comment recently about this movie and I totally agree "A simple story doesn't mean it's a bad story" People keep saying that it was boring and too long, but for me personally I didn't feel that. In the end, when I walked out of the cinema I was smiling and feeling good, last time I felt that way was after watching Top Gun Maverick

[@jamie_d0g978]

Same sude, i go there to see more Pandora and blue giant apaches kicking starcraft Terran giys and that's exactly what I get. It's a decent entertaining movie

[@JoseCuervo11]

Yeah I wasn't really looking forward to it but got invited to see it and I'm glad I went. Fits perfectly in the category of good, not great.

[@KevinOnEarth_]

I loved the first film and have been telling ppl this for years. The simple story was intentional and served as a catalyst for the more immersive world building and beautiful visuals. That being said, the second film was pretty too, but I have to agree on most of the critiques about the massive plot holes. It completely pulled me out of the immersive setting that the first film had established. The second film is not terrible, but I'm disappointed it's not more after 13 years. I guess I expected too much.

[@spascho]

I totally agree with you, just like the first part, this one didn’t feel long at all. I think the only downside to the story here was that it tried to focus on so many new characters, while the first one was pretty much only Jake and Neytiri. Still loved it though and definitely will see it again in a week or so.

[@GIBBO4182]

I’ve seen this exact comment 3 times now! The bots are getting advanced

[@zathary564]

Tbh i actually like Spider. As explained in the beginning, he cant be sent home because babies cant be put into cryo sleep. And him growing up among navi, just to find out that his real father is a human who's out for vengeance, but also actually cares for him, creates a cool identity crisis thing. I'd like to see where he goes.

[@RKOutpost0]

SEASON GREETING🎄 Your comment have been noted shortlisted for our Christmas gift contest inbox 🎅🎅 🅣🅔🅛🅔🅖🅡🅐🅜📩CRITDRINKER

[@danm5911]

Totally agree - I've posted something like this in several comments, and it's nice to find someone else finally saying it. I thought his actions at the end were the best part of the movie, and a rare moment in film history to see a son do something like that for such a villainous person - because he's his father. And it makes me interested in the next one too, because now at least one earthly-human has some 'nuance,' which a lot of people here seem to be clamoring for.

[@TheBarser]

I can see him getting some real crises in the next movie. His dad is beginning to really show feelings for him, and his blue foster mom treating him like crap. He is not really accepted as family despite him being a really nice kid

[@Shlogger]

his story and the dynamic between him and his psycho dad and his adopted family was kind of the only remotely interesting thing out of the whole movie honestly. lol. They didn't give the little Beiber clone actor much to work with, not that he was any good anyway, he was pretty awful, but at least it was some level of complexity that we could relate to as an audience, instead of pregnant blue sea smurfs chit chatting with 4 eyed whale things about this and that. lol. Cameron is off his fuckin' rocker at this point.... lol.

[@William-the-Guy]

Agreed. He seemed like an interesting idea, I wish they'd delved into him more. He also gave Quiritch and arc.

[@dragonforks93]

"A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing" - George Lucas

[@MorpheusASmith]

After those horrendous prequels that man has no right to open his mouth.

[@dislike_button33]

@@MorpheusASmith Prequels are great. The Disney sequels are horrendous.

[@Killjoy45]

@@dislike_button33 The Prequels are still not great, but the Disney sequels made me appreciate them more than ever.

[@WeezaY5000]

@@MorpheusASmith This quote of his was from many, MANY, years ago. He is more machine than man now...

[@MaxLittleBuddy]

@@MorpheusASmith Well that's because George chickened out Jar Jar's sith lord arc due to media backlash. It still has the best lightsaber fights and the characters. Also the good memes.

[@arisnikolopoulos5280]

The script was so incredibly stupid that it ruined it completely. So many resources were given by the humans just to give some marine captain the opportunity to get his vengeance? (because that's more or less how it worked) He lived in a hut and they could just send two helicopters and bomb it to ash. And the Navi were so willing to give up the only leader who had successfully beaten and could beat again the human threat? Just stupid.

[@martinschulz9381]

I just hate it when they bring dead people back to life. They realize that they made a mistake by killing them off, so the writers come up with a creative (Convoluted) ways of bringing them back. Sometimes they just kill the hero or villain and magically bring them back by the end of the movie.

[@arcbrush]

Agree, but here it works. The actor is getting kinda old, but if he becomes blue it stops being an issue.

[@neonnlightt]

i do think it is somewhat believable with the whole memory uploading thing to bring him back makes sense in universe but i would have liked more of an explination. out of all the movies i remember where they have brought the main villain back to life avatar 2 has definitely done it the best

[@mateoreyes6921]

Yeah, that is pretty cheap If the characther is si good, don't kill it and them bring it back with a excuse that was never showed to us in the past

[@Ned-nw6ge]

Yep. One of the new characters also died in the second movie, but rumor has it that the actor for said character is also in the cast for Avatar 3 and 4, so I wonder how they're gonna bring him back to life, whether the actor just gets a new character like Sigourney Weaver did or whether he'll just be a spirit or an apparition in flashbacks and memories.

[@johnsonjunior547]

i dont think its bad. Its clear they wouldve had the technology to do that. I mean, if they have the avatar tech, they can probably clone as well. Hes too good of an actor and villain to replace with someone else.

[@seanpurdy8230]

Believe it or not, the point about Spider (annoying character indeed who does four 180° turns in the movie) makes a lot of sense and hat’s off to the writers for keeping it in the film when I’m certain the woke mob around him was ready to burn his house down for it. It’s about an angsty teen who pretends to hate his father based on who he was in the eyes of others. Spider finally meets him (sort of) and it’s obvious the both the Colonel and Spider want their father and son relationship. In other words: fathers matter to sons and sons matter to their fathers. I think it’s obvious you missed that point, but it was there.

[@samiamtheman7379]

I honestly don't blame him for saving his bio dad considering his adopted mom tried to kill him in front of the rest of his adopted family, and the only person who begged her to stop was his bio dad. Hell, the more confusing part was going back to them afterwards.

[@HolographicThoughts]

Plus New-Quaritch's acceptance of Spider was an organic admiration of similar traits and empathy rather than pure social obligation to 'be nice to the human outcast'.

[@ThugByChoice]

Exactly the woke mob would have you believe that teenagers a perfect and they already have their minds made up about everything.

[@-et37-]

@@samiamtheman7379 Well said

[@crazywolf68]

Yeah all this makes sense and I had the same general feeling. However I also think they did a poor job of showing this internal struggle and how it fed in to his decision making over the course of the movie. As a result it looks like he keeps flip flopping between two allegiances at the discretion of the director; whatever advances the plot.

[@DeepFriedOddish]

*spoilers* I did enjoy the angle they went with Quaritch. Him being essentially a new person, just with Quaritch's memories, could lead to some interesting themes in the future. Also, his relationship with Spider: showing the semblances of compassion after Spider was captured, avoiding killing Na'vi because the kid begged him, and ultimately releasing his hostage at the worst time after Neytiri threatened to kill Spider. They fleshed him out a tiny bit more.

[@insertcoolnamelater9334]

Yeah, he was the last person I expected would get any character development, but here we are.

[@Zaflon]

I was so pissed off by the magical teenage navi world that I was actually rooting for the humans

[@primeradiant827]

Same, Jake is basically a selfish traitor to Humanity who forced the conflict in the first film, through his inaction and preoccupation with Neytiri.

[@lightningboltt5437]

@@primeradiant827 so true, humans are the best

[@primeradiant827]

@@lightningboltt5437 I'm not entirely sure what way you mean that, but not really in the movie. They were a step up from cartoon villains overall. It's just kinda contrived how things turned out and it was basically down to Jake's selfishness.

[@rayunited2010foryou]

@@primeradiant827 Looks like we have found another Miles Quaritch here.

[@primeradiant827]

@@rayunited2010foryou If it means saving Humanity, sure thing Jake.

[@ubk8751]

I think Cameron tried making the "kind researchers being stuck in a bad situation they don't entirely agree with" thing again with the marine biologist, problem is that he has like two scenes before he dies (?) so it doesn't really work out

[@azaquarium123]

Does he die though?

[@ubk8751]

@@azaquarium123 dunno, hence the question mark. Had it not been because of the Kernel's return I would say he did, but as it is, probably not

[@CrniWuk]

@@azaquarium123 No one's ever really gone.

[@alexanderinoa7850]

So, he's either alive, because he noticed the cable of the harpoon was going to cut through the boat and warned everybody before ducking under it, then survived the boat crashing, but is now stranded in the middle of the ocean, with no way to land... Second option is he survived like the first scenario, but then got sucked into the whirlpool of the main boat sinking and drowned because the Sullies didn't grab him on their way out... Or third, he died when the boat flipped right after the cable cut through it. Honestly, hope he died this way, seems the quickest and least painful.

[@DerpASherpa117]

I don't think Jemaine Clement's character dies and you can tell he's extremely jaded by his job.