Avengers: Endgame Ancient One Deleted Scene EXPLAINED

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#DisneyPlus has just released new #AvengersEndgame deleted scenes. In this video we break down the #AncientOneDeletedScene and how this alternate version of her encounter with the Hulk would have changed the meaning of the ending. The movie's explanation of time travel and the meaning of #CaptainAmerica's ending would have been altered.
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Written, Hosted, and Edited by Ryan Arey

[@woodie232323]

I like the idea that during the events of the NYC invasion that there were four Captain America's at the same time one fighting, one grabbing stones, one returning stones, and one siting in a chair waiting for it to be done

[@CoolnCarin5241]

I would like your comment but there are 69 likes, so imma hold myself back.

[@woodie232323]

@@CoolnCarin5241 apparently there are 70 likes now lol

[@williamdzialak9328]

Exactly. But the one returning the stones I’m pretty sure is the same as the one who would be waiting. He returned the stones and then the waiting began. So technically 3 versions. But then the version gathering the stones would go away, and you would be left with two (the one waiting while living his normal life and the one we have all seen in the movies). And then finally years later when Cap goes back in time to return the stones, there is only 1 Cap left in the true timeline (old Cap). That makes more sense to me than him living in another timeline.

[@alarastaff]

@@williamdzialak9328 bro they are all the same

[@BleachWizz]

I mean as long as he's getting older 4 times faster than it's perfectly fine. I like the idea that he lived twice in the present. And he showed up old in the end.

[@crucisnh]

The image of the Ancient One sitting back with a cold drink while BBQing her lunch is pretty funny.

[@nicdavis1202]

BBQ tofu. 🤪

[@clarissanavarro2762]

She jus' grillin'

[@Krytren]

They should have made old Rodgers actually played by Stan Lee. Then every Cameo would be Steve making sure the timeline was in order.

[@cultusfetus]

this is a really good idea

[@cruelladevil2755]

even if it's a cool idea ,they wouldn't do it .

[@petermoore3042]

I think i read somewhere that was the original idea when writing endgame but Stan Lee died and they didnt think it was right to just deep fake him

[@Krytren]

@@petermoore3042 :( cant like that but ❤

[@xelzp]

@@petermoore3042 definitely was not their original idea. replacing captain america with stan lee is just not a good idea.

[@ZybakTV]

I'm just gonna pretend I understand.

[@Cozad2ll2]

Yes 🙋🏻‍♂️

[@jhintastic7941]

Same

[@gamefreak8503]

Did not understand anything happens for 7 mins . but sure I can pretend to understand everything just happened .

[@tm001]

You know what... I like the sound of that

[@tesfayeworku6026]

Let me explain how i understand it, so when the avengers travel back in time they are making new timelines, so when cap fought himself(which didn't happen in the original Avenegers movie) that happened in a different timeline, so essentially a new timeline is created when the avengers travel back.That's what he meant by branched timeline, so there was a timeline were cap fought himself and the original avengers 1 timeline. But when cap put all the stones back, all new timelines are gone and only the original timeline remains, do you get it? If not i will try to explain it in another way

[@CUTE_CHAHAT]

I am just glad captain America went back and lost his virginity

[@wroxtaar]

Just like dr. Strange couldn't see the possibilities in which he dies and iron man lives.

[@Philosophical_engineer]

sachin kumar 😂😂😂

[@Philosophical_engineer]

sachin kumar 😂😂😂

[@Philosophical_engineer]

sachin kumar 😂😂😂

[@darkknight2947]

Captain america make it with sharon carter dude

[@elin111]

The Ancient One casually chilling would've been inconsistent with her stoic grim demeanor so kinda glad that was cut.

[@SeraphSeph]

Maybe she was stoic and grim since she was on the tail end of her life and that's how strange needed to see her to become who he becomes. Her chilling would have added more layers to her personality.

[@summertyme5748]

It was just a goofy early version of the scene where they gave her Hulk’s dialogue which then made Banner look liked an idiot.

[@loading4354]

@@summertyme5748 indeed

[@BlazingOwnager]

@@summertyme5748 Yep, the reshots were much better.

[@andrewjohnson6716]

From the moment that the character was introduced Swinton showed that the Ancient One had the sardonic sense of humour of an old Kung Fu master and that she would act in whatever way she felt she had to to create a teachable moment for others. Perhaps she appeared that way to Bruce precisely because of the effect she knew it would have on his reactions.

[@DF2912]

Watching this after the finale of Loki's first season is so surreal

[@Pandapucks]

mind blowing

[@AllfatherBlack]

explain. i dont care about spoilers and will never be watching Loki

[@GamerBoy-cs3sx]

@@AllfatherBlack Its pretty complicated to explain lol

[@nanabanana44]

@@AllfatherBlack In short, the timeline was a closed loop that was created by Khan the conqueror, but after the Loki this closed loop went crazy and branched off to lots of new timelines. which is going to be addressed probably in doctor strange - the multiverse of madness

[@ozby11]

@@AllfatherBlackLoki goes to Mongolia, he gets captured by the tva, he watches his entire life, he works with the TVA to capture a Loki variant who escaped the tva. Loki finds out where the variant might be hiding, he ruins Mobius’s salad and goes to Pompeii to free his goat friends and his theory is proven right, Mobius, Loki, Hunter B-15 and TVA soldiers go to the 2050, There Loki meets the Loki variant who is revealed to be a woman, she goes through a portal and Loki follows her, the variant also sends lots of pruning devices to different points in the sacred timeline. They go to the TVA and fight until Judge Renslayer and TVA officers come to try to prune both of them, Loki uses the device and uses up all of its fuel and go to Lamentis-1 in 2077 which is the middle of crashing into the planet it’s orbiting, the variant’s name is revealed to be Slyvie, Slyvie tried to enchant Loki but it didn’t work, they trick some guards to think Slyvie is a prisoner and Loki is a guard and get on a train that goes to an evacuation vessel called the Ark, they have a talk about their mom and Loki reveals that he likes both men and women, Slyvie reveals that the TVA’s agents were variants, Loki gets drunk and he sings Asgardian songs, Loki thinks that love is like a dagger, the guards notice that they aren’t who they said they are and they fight, Loki and Slyvie get thrown out, they try to hijack the Ark but it gets destroyed. Flashback time: Slyvie was taken in by the TVA as a child and has been escaping from them for thousands of years, flashback over. They sit on a rock and think about life, The TVA notices it and takes them, they get separated, Loki tells Mobius that the TVA’s high ranking members are lying to him but Mobius doesn’t believe it, Mobius puts Loki into a time-loop, Loki is able to escape, meanwhile Slyvie shows Hunter B-15 her past, Loki and Slyvie reunite and they kill the time keepers who are revealed to be robots, Loki gets pruned and is found by 4 other Loki variants: Boastful Loki, Classic Loki, Kid Loki and Alligator Loki. Slyvie confronts Renslayer who tells about the Void, the place where all the pruned things go to, Renslayer and Miss Minutes lie about a Void Timecraft and Slyvie prunes herself, Alioth (a giant smoke monster) chases Slyvie, she sees a vision of a castle, Mobius rescues her in a car and he apologises, meanwhile Loki goes to a hideout with his 4 variant versions, Classic Loki tells about how he escaped Thanos, Kid Loki tells how he killed Thor, Boastful Loki lies about his origins, Loki tries to go away but President Loki and lots of other Loki variants look at him, Loki goes back in to the hideout where Boastful Loki betrays Kid Loki (who’s their leader), President Loki enters and gets betrayed by his followers, there is a huge fight and Classic Loki creates an illusion so the others think it’s them and they escape, Loki and Slyvie reunite and they sit together, Classic Loki makes a very impressive illusion of Asgard and then Alioth eats him, Loki and Slyvie enchant Alioth and go inside a portal. They go inside the castle Slyvie saw, there they get jumpscared by Miss Minutes, they confront He Who Remains who is Kang but is wearing his Immortus clothes, Kang tells them about how there used to be a multiverse but he combined the universes into 1, he gives them 2 choices, either they take his place or they kill him starting the multiverse, Slyvie tries to kill him but Loki stops her from doing so, they fight, Slyvie kisses Loki and then she throws him into the TVA headquarters, Slyvie kills he who remains, bringing back the multiverse, meanwhile Hunter B-15 reveals to the TVA that they’re all variants and her and Mobius watch as the multiverse becomes a thing again, Loki is very confused since Mobius and Hunter B-15 don’t know who he is, he looks at the statue of the Time Keepers to see that it has been replaced by a statue of He Who Remains. Loki will return in season 2

[@cmailloux30]

Steve Rogers was always a “man out of time.” He essentially time traveled forwards by preserving himself in ice for decades. So he was always in his timeline. Consider Steve Rodgers just like the infinite stones and Thor’s hammer. Returned to the point in time he was taken.

[@RenatoPassosSantos]

This comment is brilliant!

[@AllfatherBlack]

Only Steve Rogers could be so pure as to be compared to Thor's hammer.

[@lukeluckynblue1873]

ye i think if steve didn't crash the plane and he just landed he would be OLD when 2012 avengers happend cause in falcon and winter soldier there is this SUPER SOLDIER who was in prison for 30 years and he normaly aged yes he was super soldier but he was OLD that's just my theory

[@himynameis3102]

I actually liked when Logan woke up and everyone was back together 🥺

[@samsargeant7411]

It was really nice after the traumatising movie 🥺

[@rosshauler7688]

@@samsargeant7411 wait traumatizing like the film was intense right?

[@gambitvoleur]

Agreed. I really didn’t think days of future past was bogged down by time travel, and it was a nice touch at the end given how X3 did James Marsden dirty.

[@rosshauler7688]

@@gambitvoleur I agree I honestly think they did it better than endgame (though to be fair time travel is used very different between the too)

[@offbeatwithcookie]

It made the movie logan even more sad and amazing

[@mrdoggo6091]

While the old steve is dancing with his girl , the other steve is still iced. Damn steve is cold blooded to himself.

[@michaellooney7330]

There is no revealing thing that he knew where in the ice he was frozen, so he may not have been able to find himself. He goes from crashing, to be frozen, to waking up in the middle of New York City.

[@gremlinsbreath]

@@michaellooney7330 If Peggy knew that her Steve was still frozen in the ice she would have stopped at nothing to find him. That would have meant there were two Steves running around in that timeline. The younger Steve lived out his life with Peggy and our Steve stayed Captain America. He could change everything because it's a whole new timeline. That would explain where he got the shield to give to Sam. He didn't take one back with him. He got it from the other Steve. Maybe that why he didn't want to talk about her. He got his dance . . . and that's all he got.

[@BlazingOwnager]

More importantly he's going to feel awkward as fuck when he sees his grand-niece Sharon

[@Shaun2024]

@@gremlinsbreath Because it's his lady and what he does with his lady is none of Sam's business. Captain America...a true gentlemen he was. Also, he is your favorite soldier's favorite soldier. He has more important things to do than sit around jaw jackin about romance all day like some loser.

[@Shaun2024]

@@BlazingOwnager What!?

[@RamdmUserHere]

Steve was there the entire time and met Drax too, he has mastered the skill of standing so perfectly still, he becomes invisible to the eye

[@WigantX]

And, now, in "Loki" (spoilers ahead) The timeline is shown to be a circle around the castle of He Who Remains. The same guy says that killing him will lead to multiversal war, which will end up bringing him back to life, restarting the cicle. What if Strange, The Ancient One, Banner and Nebula just knew what they knew about time travel because that's all they could know at that said point in time? I mean, the theory of atoms has been evolving up to the most recent model we have and understand now (do we?), which is way different from the original idea (check out greek's philosophy on the subject). And also: In the mythology, Loki is the reason for Ragnarok. So, in a way, the end of ep6 is Ragnarok for the entire existence, not only for Asgard, brought by a Loki. And Ragnarok is just part of a circle, where everything starts all over again

[@fahm90]

You noticed that old Steve could be Made young again? They turned ant Man into a baby

[@pedriasr]

The thing is I dont think he'd want that. All he ever wanted was to live life with peggy. And he did. Theres no need for him anymore.

[@fahm90]

@@pedriasr there Is a very important need... MONEY!!!!!

[@tylerplayzz8697]

He might have wanted to also be with his friends

[@pedriasr]

@@tylerplayzz8697 his original team was gone. Stark and nat died, hawkeye retired to be with his family, hulk is out of combat, and thor joined the asguardiand of the galaxy. Hes not really alone but he kinda is. Theres still bucky and falcon, but the man literally lived a life, and then went back in time to live it again but with his love, peggy.

[@chandlerr8795]

Francisco H that’s exactly what i said bro

[@MisterMoncivais]

Then in the future, Marvel is gonna say there's several timelines to make more movies and bring characters back...

[@wyattguilliams9472]

They already did

[@joshuam5689]

I'm okay with that as long as the quality is good

[@runicsniper4043]

Mister Moncivais there already is multiple timelines. The Loki show is gonna take place in one of the ones that was created in Endgame

[@amandacorbett4785]

"I see this as an absolute win"

[@snakekingblues3017]

Ummm.... yeah i mean that happen a lot sometime it works sometime it fails I mean do u really think when they were making the first few marvel movies they had everything plan out?

[@joeyl564]

It makes sense Steve was in that reality all the time, with the knowledge he had of time and his convictions and values wouldnt let him mess with time. Plus he got what he wanted.

[@onyxxproductions8187]

If he hung on to the tesseract in the alternate Peggy timeline, no New York and no Thanos snap because he has it hidden away. He can live his life out with her and then go put it back when she dies to erase everything which pops him instantly into the main timeline.

[@stevelucky7579]

So Thanos really was being “merciful” willing them out of existence. “One snap of my fingers and they will simply cease to exist”

[@vinslungur]

Thanos is a tyrant degenerate. His logic is flawed.

[@words007]

@@vinslungur with all the memes about aliens not visiting us and tiktoks, i think Thanos was on to something.

[@vinslungur]

@@words007 We definitely deserve annihilation. However it's not because of lack of resources but because we simply deserve it. Also even though we deserve it, it's not one person's right to decide to kill half of the population, that's what makes him a tyrant and wrong.

[@UHFStation1]

Maybe we can exist in a split shift type situation? Lol.

[@DirkPiddlemark]

Final conclusion: don't do time travel in movies, it always opens Pandora's Box

[@Al-Mokadimah]

What is Pandora's Box ?

[@cooltrainervaultboy-39]

Thank you! The only time I've seen time travel done the best, was in Warehouse 13.

[@luciapereyra9804]

Pandora's parabox 🤣

[@princeroyal195]

مروان سالم بامطرف a box you put all your favorite songs in from the music service

[@DirkPiddlemark]

@@Al-Mokadimah pandora is somebody who I used to know..

[@phlaelym]

I like that the Loki that teleported away with the tesseract wasn't the Loki that watched Asgard fall, or felt the pain of losing his mother and father, or the one who grew closer to his brother Thor (a least a little), or became a little less wicked over time. That upcoming Loki series should be interesting.

[@NerdySalemSays]

they'll still give him the character development to become that other Loki though, people like chaotic neutral Loki too much...

[@alejandrofonseca9084]

@@NerdySalemSays probably eventually but it'll still be interesting to see him grow into that kind of Loki or at least a similar version without going through those same events.

[@kaynesr5563]

well he would still die and experienced these too because now that the stone shave been returned to its place there is only one timeline and as the ancient one said "death is irreversible"

[@cupid1994able]

@@kaynesr5563 but that stone was never returned

[@kaynesr5563]

@@cupid1994able well they go back in time to return the borrowed stones right, and then the ancient one said that your past becomes your future and your future becomes your past. but now looking at it the stones in their present time are destroyed though so the flow of time is cracked

[@hanibalking7841]

Dude I’m still lost even worse when Bruce explains time travel to war machine I blank out cause I can’t keep my brain up with what he says

[@onyxxproductions8187]

It's simple, present day Steve includes a period of time travel that happens in a split second in the main timeline. When he left, his past self left the present timeline and his future self who time-traveled hasn't appeared yet. His future self appears a split second later. So his time travel was the future for his past self and the past for his future self and all happened in a blip in the main timeline.

[@SilentD1]

Even more simply put when trying to explain the possibility of time travel is to ignore the concept of time all together, and only concentrate about causality. Since if time travel is possible you can break the direction of time, but causality will always move forward. Meaning it does not matter "when" things happen, but what caused them to happen. And if you are able to jump in time, you can cause things in the past that were done after something done in the future. Just ignore the clock and look at actions happening.

[@LordRaine]

He's saying that it's a mistake to view time travel as rewinding time. The only timeline that matters, that is REAL, is the one you yourself experience. Chapter 1, you're born. Chapter 2, you grow up. Chapter 3, you time travel to fix something that happened during the events of Chapter 2. But that's still Chapter 3, not Chapter 2. Chapter 4, you come back. In essence, it's saying that time travel isn't even real: you can't actually change anything. If you go into the past and shoot your father before you're born, not only do you not disappear, but when you return, your father isn't dead. He was never shot. Because he wasn't shot in your sequence of events. Maybe the timeline where you shot your father splits off and becomes a whole separate thing, or maybe it just disappears and never was as soon as you leave.

[@FLASHnMODELSdk]

@@LordRaine Actually the logical thing to happen would be that if you did shoot your dad, you would not disappear, but all proof of your existence would. So basically you would go back to a future where no one would know who you were, and if you chose not shoot your father, but instead did something to prevent your younger self the ability to time travel, there would be 2 of you when going back to your own time. Cause then you would go back to a future where you were born all over again, and unable to time travel. So the other you would just continue to exist in the future, while you also would be there uppon your arrival back.

[@LordRaine]

@@FLASHnMODELSdk That's not logical, and that's not how that theory of time travel works. You can't change your future by going back to the past, because time remains a straight and uninterrupted line. You aren't rewinding time. You're just copy-pasting something that happened in the past, into a portion of your future, but when it's over the future remains the same.

[@aydinbiber7616]

"Death is irreversible" Someone tell the people at Fox/Marvel.

[@vildesato256]

Tell that to Coulson

[@setiasianturi]

Vision died twice.

[@Armageist]

Tell that to Wong

[@jamesngando3485]

@@vildesato256 he is the Son oh Cool, death is not for him

[@habibulalamasif9137]

@@Armageist yeah Wong legit died and was braught back to life.

[@Fritz746]

*Dr. Strange died many times just to bargain.*

[@Philosophical_engineer]

YBN Undisputed he trapped himself and dormamu in a time loop that resets every time he dies. If he died without the time stone he would have been just dead and no return.

[@CrankyGrandma]

So did Vision

[@notme-sm6zb]

@@CrankyGrandma Vision died many times just to bargain? What are you talking about?

[@RadioJosiah]

Strange used the Time Stone to set the loop before his first death. So it's different. I think.

[@allnamesaretakenful]

@@CrankyGrandma To create Vision, Wanda may have pulled him from another reality, which would also explain why he doesn't remember his time with the Avengers. Either way, he's a different Vision, and doesn't violate the rules. Resurrected White Vision is most likely not the actual Vision, just a mechanical body with a different mind, which also doesn't violate the staying dead rule. I am wondering how Necromancy gets around the staying dead rule. Maybe same body, but no mind or different mind.

[@mysterio7807]

"Death is irreversible". Well, tell that to Wong and everyone that died in Hong Kong at the end of Doctor Strange.

[@millers8142]

he reversed time thru them because they they weren't completely lost yet since the event was still fresh and known to Dr. strange. so like the apple he ate he restored he could bring them back. Same way ancient one survived so long.

[@niwempleh]

@@millers8142 they set up the time manipulation has consequences, never comes to fruition!

[@GoldenAircraft310]

Totally could’ve saved iron man smh

[@SKD72]

Death is irreversible was in the deleted scene. Since it was deleted it doesn't count and the rule is not a rule.

[@nodak81]

Technically he's not reversing death, he's reversing time. If the result of that is a death doesn't occur then it still hasn't been reversed, it just never happened.

[@TheLunarNights123]

Ancient one: If a person dies, he always dies Doctor strange: Dies multiple times and yet revives himself

[@sebastianpiriz]

My head canon is that he returned the time stone last and the ancient one inserted him into the 40s as a gift. we've already seen that the time stone's is a different kind of Time travel where you can change stuff from the past

[@WubTheory]

Oh, yeah. This is good.

[@onyxxproductions8187]

Then that timeline is never erased. It makes more sense that he hangs on to the tesseract in that timeline and lives his life out with Peggy, then goes back to replace it after she dies to erase everything and pop back into the main timeline. If he has the tesseract the whole time, no New York or Thanos snap in that timeline.

[@jedi098765]

I've been saying this everywhere. Thank you

[@yotoontok7436]

It’s simple: the MCU wouldn’t really want to encourage a multiverse, as the comics do, because it means nobody’s ever really gone.

[@Xyruk]

And yet the second Doctor Strange movie is literally titled "Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness". That and they've already mentioned that the multiverse exists in the first Doctor Strange.

[@revolcona]

@@Xyruk Maybe now we will understand how time travel and the stones affected the timelines. I guess it could be other reasons for multiverse existence, since there are actually some theories being studied right now in real life

[@universalcollective427]

It's simple : We kill The Batman

[@RobTebaldi]

Well played Wookie. Well played....lol

[@summertyme5748]

This statement is simple and completely backward. Because you don’t understand the multiverse. Multiverse time travel means that you can’t travel back to the past - you only create alternate reality. This means that anyone who is dead *is truly gone*. It’s universe time travel that means you can travel back to the past - and bring the dead back to life. For example - if you believe that Cap could travel back to the past - then he could simple - go back to past - get Peggy who is dead - bring her back with him to the future at the end of the film. Then they are both *young and alive* at the end of the film. That is the implication of Back2TheFuture time travel which is fraught with logical paradoxes like that. That’s why the film has that *Back2theFuture* is bullshit. Marvel is a multiverse. That isn’t debatable - it’s literally been stated by Kevin Feige. So this post and its 91 upvotes are *100% WRONG.*

[@lilystrong9870]

Original timeline: Thanos collected the stones. New timeline: Thanos travelled into a different timeline. Conclusion: Not the same timeline.

[@summertyme5748]

Lily Strong Of course. How the heck can anyone with a brain watch this film and not get that. This is the wonder to me, from reading these threads. 😂

[@theevilteacher]

Timeline branching happens when you travel into your past, not into the future. But, if what you said is true, Thanos and Co. would have changed timeline, not the Avengers.

[@drakmendoa]

@Whiting69 No there are 5. 4. The one where Rocket sucks the Reality Stone out of Jane and Thor borrows Mjölnir. 5. That one where they stole the space stone and where Steve travels back to be with Peggy. Granted I think the Living Tribunal will wipe out the fourth timeline, because the difference is minimal, but still.

[@sykeassai]

​@@drakmendoa You are assuming that 4 is not just something that happened in one of the branch timelines.

[@pamelaspain3251]

drakmendoa d@mn, I didn’t even think about the Reality Stone & how Rocket was able to get it, & wouldn’t older Thor taking his hammer when he went back in time alter his run-in with Hela in Thor: Ragnorak? She wouldn’t have been able to destroy it & get to Asgard, so wouldn’t Asgard still be there?

[@mishi4187]

Fast forward to 2021 That deleted scene is like the last episode of Loki

[@glennchartrand5411]

Steve Rogers goes back in time with Infinity stones His vibranium shield Thors Hammer (which he can wield ) A time machine. A body that ages very slowly. He did a lot more than meet up with the love of his life and return the stones.

[@onyxxproductions8187]

He didn't take the shield because it was broken by Thanos. He had to replace the hammer so Thor would have it to fight whoever he fought back then. He brought back a new shield from the alternate timeline.

[@glennchartrand5411]

@@onyxxproductions8187 He had one when he got back.

[@LoneTiger]

_"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff. "_ Dr. Who (Blink)

[@vampirecaptain7676]

Thank you for the doctor who reference.

[@FelipeKana1]

Exactly! I couldn't stop thinking about this during the whole movie and all those debates. Its just one timeline, everything happens and not happens, there's no paradox, just roll with it!

[@bernb]

I happen to like how DW approaches time travels. In DW, time togehter with the physical world spans a complex single entity instead of being seperated. So you can't just easily change anything or do anything, just as it is difficult to swim against the current of a river. Also, paradoxies can be local (in time or space) anomalies just as black holes, for example. There are still alternate realities, but they exist with their own time-space-entity. Of course the missing coherent and logical explanation how time travel in DW works is to allow for great stories and not running into continuity trouble, which would be inevitable in a long living show. But I still like it.

[@CrankyGrandma]

Yes😄. The doctor had the best explanation yet

[@andrewcrawshaw334]

LEGIT! also you want a dr who reference? Spiderman says "I dont wanna go" when he dies in infinity war. the same as David Tennant's Dr Who.

[@RandallHallKaizenReiki]

I interpreted the Ancient One's words about the timelines going dark being specific to the time stone being missing and they would need it to stop Dormamu - not the timeline are clipped. The branch timelines have problems because of missing stones. They aren't erased when the stone is returned, they just have all the stones again and aren't condemned to darkness.

[@kevintalks5403]

Same

[@irok1]

Yeah, because that's what the Ancient One said in the movie

[@Baddas_]

@@kevintalks5403 You didn't understand anything, did you? 🗿

[@onyxxproductions8187]

She literally said they were erased when the stone was returned. She said it in the movie. She said they had to be replaced in the exact moment they were taken to erase the new timeline.

[@ChanceSarsis]

With the release of Loki, i would like you to review this theory with the new information we know.

[@ForgeMasterXXL]

From my POV I have always believed Steve went back and lived with Peggy in fact I speculated upon it after the discussion he had with Peggy and as you mentioned the photos without a husband being shown. I’m sure someone could have come up with a way of hiding Steve from the original team so as to protect the timeline, I suppose he could have gone to the sorcerer supreme he would have been aware of her existence. Following on from this, she would have wanted to help maintain the main timeline that she has been studying for so long as she says ‘peering into the future’

[@njso18]

This is why I just don't like time travel. It opens too many boxes and never holds up to reasonable scrutiny.

[@randompseudonym4519]

Couldn't agree more. Why didn't present Nebula die when she shot her past self? When Tony wished away past Thanos' forces, that would mean that past Thanos wouldn't exist any more in his timeline, so he wouldn't be able to accumulate the infinity stones in the first place! It's such bullshit!

[@mohammadnurfiqri2831]

@@randompseudonym4519 each time travel creates a new timeline. So killing past Thanos just means that the timeline past Thanos came from will have no Thanos. But in the normal timeline we're familiar with, Thanos still did what he did and that can't be changed.

[@garrowolf7112]

@@mohammadnurfiqri2831 I was working on a fan fiction that reworked Endgame to have it that Tony snapped them back into the past with no knowledge of the future in order to fix the timeline.

[@mohiuddin2642]

I saw a movie once on time travel a guy had a baby and that baby grew up to be him self in the future so basically he was his own father 😂😂😂🥴🥴🥴

[@summertyme5748]

Tiniest Violin Correct. We do travel thru time, and Avengers multiverse time travel is a valid theory in that it is premised precisely on the fact that you can’t change the past. It utilizes Quantum theory that posits multiple realities, thus you travel to alternate realities.

[@efrengamez6309]

This explains why the Hulk is wearing that sun cap when he is knocked out.

[@wisespidey]

Sun cap? Explain plz

[@arrezz2078]

Yes explain

[@djuanbenjamin9149]

Wisdom Menezes there is a hat over Hulks unconscious body when he’s in the chair.

[@antoniomitchell4407]

LOL so true im crying

[@Keizerin]

Knocked out when?

[@manuel_elastico3163]

I’m so happy that the writers didn’t just move on with anything like most directors would they actually thought about how should this make sense

[@GrabEmByTheJoystick]

I love the insight in your videos. I'm 2 years late, wish I'd watched these sooner

[@Kronical69420]

I like splitting timelines. Far more interesting possibilities. For example, the Thanos that came from the past dies in the present. So in the past he came from, Thanos disappeared, creating an alternate timeline in which he never gathered the stones and didnt snap his fingers. This gives Marvel the opportunity to play with the stones again, which I hope they do. By comparison to the comics, the power of the gauntlet was significantly less. Which works right now because the general population probably isnt capable of grasping some of the things the Marvel books have done. As the general public gets more used to the true scale of Marvel storytelling, we can reintroduce the true gauntlet at a later date, a gauntlet the doesnt burn away half a person when used. Any true fans would have noticed that the gems on the MCU gauntlet were not configured correctly. The power gem and mind gem were put in backwards. The power gem needs to be on the back of the hand to power up the rest of the gems on the knuckles. So the gauntlet we saw, while still being able to do the snap, was only at a fraction of the power its supposed to be and caused major damage to the wearer. I think the Russos did all this intentionally because we still need the stones to stop at least one convergence ;)

[@davidhonez8859]

In the Infinity Gauntlet Thanos didn't need an army

[@masonwade9924]

@@davidhonez8859 and let’s not forget the Thanos Copter

[@onyxxproductions8187]

There were 7 new time lines created, one for each stone (two for the tesseract). The Ancient One clearly explains that the new timeline would be erased when the stones are replaced. The 2014 timeline was erased when Steve replaced the power stone. It no longer exists, except for when that timeline interacted with the main timeline.

[@donnieb78]

Steve grew old in the only alternate timeline that remained after Endgame: The one where Loki escapes with the Tesseract. That is the reality where Cap would have returned the Mind Stone, but THAT reality was still missing the Tesseract because Loki took it...this altering the timeline. Cap COULDN’T cut that branch because he nor any other Avenger knows where/when Loki went. So to recap: Time Stone: Back to The Ancient One Reality Stone: Back In Jane Foster in Asgard Power Stone: Back before Star Lord takes it. Mind Stone: Back to SHIELD in Avengers Tower. Soul Stone: Back In Vormir. Space Stone, 2nd attempt: Back In Camp Lieber Space Stone, 1st Attempt: With Loki and the only remaining timeline besides 616 MCU!

[@Dirty20]

But even then, branches still cant be cut properly, the moment you step foot there you change SOMETHING. Take the Star Lord example. At the start of GotG, time is tight. Star Lord gets the stone and JUST about makes it out with enough time to fly off world. In order to get the stone, they have to knock him out, which means that even with the stone returned, Star Lord needs to either be woken up or wake up himself. In any case, that takes away precious moments, and indicates that he might not have the time to escape, instead, Ronan's men may have got it before and thus, the entire timeline would be different.

[@edmundoalarcon2000]

Yuuuuuup

[@jadaabbygale4002]

Also the mind stone part could explain why wanda got to reanimate vision's body because we dont kniw what happens to it after it has been returned from infinity war...idk this stuff confuses me😅

[@onyxxproductions8187]

@@Dirty20 No, because replacing the stone at the moment it was taken erases all of that and all that is left is the original where he took it normally - that's the implication anyway, even if the timing doesn't fit (i.e., that he was knocked out before the stone was taken)

[@onyxxproductions8187]

There are 7 timelines created, not one created by the Time Heist. Each stolen stone creates a new timeline. Steve could wait to replace the tesseract and live out his life with fake Peggy in the Tony-takes-the-tesseract timeline and hide the tesseract to prevent all major events and then go back in time (again) to return it and erase that timeline. Loki's didn't even start until he took the tesseract, so no chance for Steve to be with Peggy in that one. But, just think, there would be no Thanos snap or even an attempt of one in Loki's timeline because the space stone is gone, so Black Widow, Gomora, and Tony would all still be alive.

[@sailing_seaescape]

nobody is addressing the fact that they actually kill Thanos before he can do his snap in Endgame? That’s creating a big time paradox if you ask me and advocates for the multiple timelines theory

[@FIipYap]

Do they?

[@mithelen]

@@FIipYap yeah because thanos when he was much younger teleported to the future and fought the avengers and died.

[@Blade-hf9po]

Mind you that's Thanos' fuck up. Now there's a timeline out there where he and his army don't exist anymore.

[@jefffettes3577]

When you travel to the past, any action there creates a new branch. These are the rules from the comics that they seemed to be trying to follow. So, the moment the Avengers arrived in the past, they created a new branch and a “new” Thanos. It was the Thanos from that branch that followed the Avengers to the future (main timeline) but then died. If you could peek over into the alternate timeline, you’d see that the snap never did happen there.

[@Amartin-mu6oj]

There's no paradox, this is multiversal time travel

[@TRAZ316]

This is one of those videos that keep me comming back :)

[@KyriZee]

I totally and utterly dislike the reality of Steve being in the main MCU timeline al along. I prefer the one where he lived in a branched reality, and just came back to the main reality to hand his shield back to Sam.

[@IP_Films01]

Exactly. Plus, it also completely ignores the agent carter which is canon

[@KyriZee]

I don't erally care abut Aent Carter. I wouldn't mind if the Cinematic Universe ignored and discarded events of the tv shows. The reality of Steve being in the main MCU timeline all along, just - independently of anyting else - does not make sense.

[@summertyme5748]

This is just a fan fiction. Anyone who thinks Steve went back to the main timeline has lost the plot of the film, and does not understand the time travel rules within the film. The entire plot of the film is based on the fact that you CANNOT do this. These people may be fans of the film, but frankly they are just too dumb to understand it. 😂

[@swanpride]

Same here. Because the idea that he was just sitting on his hands for decades...that would have been HELL for him. I agree, he came back after Peggy died so that this reality Bucky didn't have to worry about him. Or after finally finding the body of his younger self from the reality he sneaked in. Whatever works best.

[@LeoUSA33]

Agreed 100%

[@eleethtahgra7182]

She went from...being an angel, an ice queen and then finally an old woman.

[@bonnysinha1229]

Life comes full circle

[@judgedredd2039]

So if Steve was Peggies husband all this time that Means that when Steve kisses Shara Carter in the Winter Solider he was kissing his grand daughter?

[@felixszopos-papp1478]

She called her aunt Peggy, so technically she is her niece.

[@ninjazcodm6000]

Sweet home alabama~

[@judgedredd2039]

@@felixszopos-papp1478 But is that any better I wonder.

[@hiwaga9301]

@@judgedredd2039 it could make an exception for felix szoppos

[@mylex817]

If you think about it, nothing would changed really, either way he had a relationship with Peggy and her niece - just weird to think they managed to keep his return a secret from the rest of Peggys family

[@StanleyNunn]

Love your show, Well done. keep it up.

[@petitlikeme]

I don't like the idea of Steve just sitting through time, waiting for his moment on that bench...also that would put a sour taste on the Agent Carter series...

[@hobbitpsi]

the Agent carter series left a sour taste on the agent carter series. It's why it was cancelled.

[@strenuousspider9525]

Makes sense that he kept the suit, got his hands on multiple Pym particles when he went back, similar to before. Lived his life with Peggy has kids. She probably dies which makes him comeback to hand over the shield and properly say goodbye before returning to his kids and such. But who is going to break the news to Steve that the Peggy he went back to is not the Peggy he fell in love with, and that she is still old and has a family with another man. Thanos will attack earth in his new timeline still. Did he save Bucky. Did he continue to fight for America. Did he stop hydra. What about himself from that timeline. Din, but if you ask me Steve was being far to selfish here. Which is why I think the other people who made the film say he actually went back in time on there timeline. But that also fucks up how time travel works in this series to begin with.

[@CBfrmcardiff]

First of all, the Agent Carter series was fab. Secondly, it all makes perfect sense. It's about Richards wanting to minimise timeline disruption so he lives the rest of his life as a normal man. Of course if he was doing that all along then theoretically he could have prevented Vietnam and 9/11, but it's like a ''would you kill Hitler" situation, since the world has ended up ok and you don't want to mess with that.

[@hobbitpsi]

@@CBfrmcardiff Ehhh, he couldn't have ended Vietnam...that was a political obligation America had with France. That wasn't our war at first, it was France's. And no... Agent Carter was boing af, was no surprise it got cancelled.

[@CBfrmcardiff]

@@hobbitpsi re: Carter... so you say. I binge watched it. Re: Vietnam... nah, France left. Escalation occurred during the Kennedy and Johnson administrations. There's also the alternate possibility that Cap could have won the war for them.

[@Dasdutt]

Old Steve being Peggy's husband means that he is related to Sharon Carter. Wouldn't she have recognized a member of her own family?

[@clarencehui9448]

She mistakened him for Joe Biden?

[@qmegamann]

Different timeline

[@paolaobando7866]

@Nate Macrae so Margarett didn't have pictures of young steve at her house?

[@mewtwo150clone]

Sharon just had the hots for her great uncle

[@hughschift8544]

It would explain her expressions and how she acted those scenes. Maybe she knew the whole time.

[@longhairedphreak]

Love it! I think I'm now more confused than ever! Lol! Thanks for all the effort put into this!

[@DrakenStark]

I like the idea Steve still had the suit and could return to the current MCU reality as he wished. This means he likely lived out his life in the alternate timeline and likely only came back using the suit after Peggy passed away with no reason to keep him in that alternate timeline.

[@ericnhero1007]

Glad they deleted that part ancient one looks like she's waiting for an alien monkey and teach him kamehameha!

[@andvan5171]

Omg 😆

[@BrownGaijin]

"Steve allowed Bucky to be..." He did a "Final Countdown."

[@isimanica1]

that was still a fun movie to watch for me.

[@scottweaver2671]

Final Countdown - Amazingly great story/movie and great comparison!

[@BlazingOwnager]

In all seriousness changing anything could have wild ramifications. Helping Bucky now insures he won't be in Wakanada later to get help; hell, if he saved him decades early, NOBODY could help him.

[@DrWho2008t101]

Thanks for the info

[@Vondruke]

Then there is the theory that Stan Lee was gonna be Steve Rogers in all the movies. But they didn't write/film the End Game scene before he died..

[@icecubesbrother]

The only other explanation, is steve lived one alternate timeline, then as old steve went back and clipped it, returning the stone, then returned to the present.

[@NoJusticeNoPeace]

You mean he created an entire Universe with trillions and trillions of sentient life forms as a masturbatory device no different than a Peggy-shaped Fleshlight, and then burned it all down when he was done with it? Sounds super-noble and heroic.

[@loganblevenson]

@@NoJusticeNoPeace that literally sounds like the plot of a rick and morty episode

[@onyxxproductions8187]

@@NoJusticeNoPeace That timeline already existed when Tony took the tesseract. He just lived in it know it was fake and would all be erased. He was with fake Peggy in a fake reality. None of it was real.

[@megadiabrous]

New York: Im complete chaos Ancient One: *Squidward Lounge Meme*

[@gamesgeargadgets722]

In retrospect, both things are now true. The MCU does have branching realities, but the TVA has been pruning them to keep it as a closed loop.

[@DarknessIsThePath]

Even heroes need a break, this was his, changing anything he did previously would undo his heroism and development as a person, so to those saying he would never quit, he already did his part and probably still did during his time with Peggy, just in a lesser Avengers capacity type of thing.

[@karenjohnson1523]

I think this is more plausible given all the possible ways Steve Rogers lived his life. He knew he couldn't stop everything without major consequences including the eventual redemption of the Winter Soldier.

[@onyxxproductions8187]

All he had to do was hide the tesseract in a hole in the backyard in that timeline to prevent HYDRA programs, New York, the Thanos snap, the need for the Avengers, and SHIELD. Then he goes back in time after fake Peggy dies to erase it by replacing the tesseract right after Tony stole it.

[@notme-sm6zb]

Bruce could not snap Tony because Tony was still alive when Bruce snapped.

[@jedislap8726]

But they had the time stone still and could have done something to reverse time and save him.

[@Christrulesall2]

What?!

[@Chessheromusic]

But they could get a younger tony just like they got a younger Gamora

[@zaberius529]

@@jedislap8726 I think they couldn't use the stones separately like Thanos did with the Infinity Gauntlet. The Infinity Gauntlet is supposedly 'enchanted' since a dwarf made it and Eitri said that it was made 'to harness the power of the stones'. The nano gauntlet on the other hand can only 'house' the stones for a snap. If they could really use the stones individually, what stopped them from using it during the final battle? An argument could be made that it's a big gauntlet now and no one can wear it but it's nanotech and it could change its shape to fit anyone. Say a powerful being could wear the gauntlet and just blast all the enemies away. At least this is what I think but I could be wrong though.

[@andrewadams8601]

​@@zaberius529 The gauntlet did change shape in the movie. It was only big in the first place because it expanded to fit Hulk's hand. I don't see any reason that they couldn't use them separately since Dr. Strange uses the time stone on multiple occasions by itself and at one point, Thanos rips out the power stone to punch Captain Marvel while they are fighting. I think they couldn't use the time stone because it seems like you need to have some special knowledge in order to use it properly, as shown in the Dr Strange movie. Either Thanos had knowledge of using the magic required to manipulate the time stone, or you are correct about his gauntlet and it enabled him to channel the power of the time stone without knowledge of the magic behind it.

[@dimmadome454]

Steve would have to be in a different timeline because there is no way in hell he would go back, let hydra infiltrate his wife's legacy and let bucky be tortured for so long by hydra. Nope.

[@mithelen]

He might have, because it already happened and it would mean the earth is saved. If he changes things up, everyone might die.

[@FantasticExplorers]

He had already saved Bucky... in the future... I mean past... I mean...

[@johnnymonsters9717]

He accepted the way things where are and going to be in order to live a life

[@Jedda678]

Steve knew that his past self would come and save Bucky. He knew everything would work out the way it was intended based on how he was informed everything would play out. It is the one rule of time travel, do not do anything that would alter the present/future dramatically. Now for some this might not be a big deal. Steve going back and living in the past and growing old would not alter the present at all if he stayed out of the eye of the military and did nothing to draw attention to himself. He could go shopping, see movies, etc as the Captain America from WW2 was already in ice. Bucky was captured by Hydra, and Hydra assumed he was long gone. Shield was not the massive intelligence network that it was in the modern MCU so they had no reason to detect or notice Steve Rodgers was in two places at once. Likely Steve had to leave so his past self would not see him. Steve likely had to watch from the outside looking in on everything that happened. So this is all one closed timeline, there is no branching path for Steve. Loki perhaps, but we still aren't sure how this will work out.

[@goodorusty]

I agree with that. It's interesting to think about what his timeline looked like. It would effectively be a parallel universe.

[@pokefan213]

"If someone dies they die it can't be avoided" further proof that the Loki that "died" at Thanos' hand might have very well been another illusion yet again. Because if he's MEANT TO DIE then we would NOT be getting a whole series about him, or we would already know how this series is going to end- with Loki dying yet again- and that would be the ending completely spoiled which would negate the purpose of making the series in the first place since we'd already know how it ends with a guarantee.

[@sealdew5348]

That is a delightful way of thinking-

[@safaricalamari7613]

The new loki series is about the Loki that escaped during the time travel shenanigans. OG Timeline loki is dead af. His body had the stone.

[@pokefan213]

@@safaricalamari7613 "If they are meant to die then they die" so if Loki was truly meant to die then this series will end with his death then. though we know Loki he HAS faked his death before- but there's also the theory that on the battlefield in endgame they opened the halls of Valhalla and some as guardians came from there- if Loki slipped through from there. *shrugs*

[@safaricalamari7613]

@@pokefan213 did you miss that part of the video where they say this was cut? It never made it into the MCU or other movies. lmao

[@onyxxproductions8187]

@@safaricalamari7613 If you die in the main timeline, you are dead. Black Widow's was a main timeline death even though she was time traveling, so it is permanent even when the soul stone timeline was erased. The first Thanos death was a main timeline death, but he still existed in the past in other realities.

[@REDBERRET1916]

Ancient one:"Death is irreversible" Dr strange:"Dormamu, I've come to bargain"

[@professordukenberry9071]

i like the idea that after peggy carter died in the alternate universe, cap returned to tony's lakehouse and finally clicked his "i'm ready to go home" button

[@hekkoCZ]

That actually explains it and it's brilliant.

[@onyxxproductions8187]

But he didn't go though the portal, so that's not how he got back. He returned to the main timeline once he finally replaced the tesseract (going back to 1945 again after fake Peggy died) and the fake Peggy timeline was erased.

[@TheGururajSA]

FYI: Coulson didn't die.. If you refer the TV series Agents of SHIELD, he is still alive.

[@originaltubebry]

....not according to this next season.

[@romeoborjesson8000]

Yeah about that.... he's dead now :(

[@iblack5]

It was explained in a separate interview that the show “Agents of Shield” was not that of a MCU inspired idea by everyone, instead a forced idea. So much in fact that when Fergie became more of the front runner of the MCU he, in a way, Thano Snapped the franchise in the second Capt America movie by revealing the Hydra agents within shield. The show struggled from that point on since they couldn’t use any properties from the MCU. The same holds true with the Netflix shows such as Daredevil, Cage, Jessica Jones, Punisher and Iron fist.

[@davidbujna8480]

@@iblack5 I think they also stated, that Agents take place in the separate universe altogether.

[@qwertypous0464]

sorry to tell you this but coulson is dead. the moment the tv show separate itself from the MCU makes coulson permanently dead now in the MCU.

[@motivateinmotion5073]

Wow great interpretation sir!

[@tompepper4789]

Congrats, you covered these possible timeline theories well.

[@alanfoxman5291]

I think if "Old Steve" had been in the main branch of the universe he wouldnt have interfered even though he would have wanted to. Because he understood that any interference could change the outcome and that could have had disasterous consequences. So his "duty" to the original timeline would have outweighed his longing to help and would make for a really great story line. He probably helped in smaller ways though. Saving people from muggers and such. More of a street level hero like a Daredevil or Like Cage

[@blackSUAAAVE]

Yeah, but how can you NOT interfere, at all, for over 70 years?? I mean, if you got to the store and buy milk, milk that someone else was supposed to buy, or drive anywhere, occupying a spot in traffic that someone else was supposed to occupy, etc. Even doing the most basic thing could and would likely offset the time line.

[@ssnow5516]

I agree but my theory is that he was in a separate timeline. He had pym particles to go to the different timelines to give the stones back and then one last charge to return to the present. Rather than using that right away, he waited 60 years to use it. Thats what I believe anyway as it keeps Agent Carter in canon and makes his scenes with old Peggy more explainable. AoS shows that the quantum realm can be used not only to move forward and backwards but also laterally (Time stream = 5 dimensional universe)

[@glasspretender]

@@blackSUAAAVE I think he’s referring to “major” events in the MCU, like failing to rescue Bucky from being tortured, or not interfering in the the Hydra takeover of SHIELD. What you’re talking about is the butterfly effect, and in most cases in literature it takes centuries before it causes any real changes down the line. So Steve would’ve been able to get milk, or drive a car because these are small, less meaningful changes to the entire MCU timeline.

[@CubieJudy]

Who's to say its not a stable loop? Think of it like that one scenario where the kid finds a book, rewrites it, then when he grows old, sends it back in time to his past self. and then everything happens again (thus the question of "who wrote the original book?" where the answer is... there's not an original book) Perhaps Steve going back to be with Peggy was always meant to happen, everything Old Steve does is always meant to happen. Because this is the one of 14 million timelines/realities where everything plays out how it's supposed to. Edit: To clarify: Basically everything Old Steve does with Peggy, inadvertently or not, sets up the pieces for everything to play out how it did back when Old Steve *was* Steve.

[@onyxxproductions8187]

@@ssnow5516 In the alternate timeline with fake Peggy, there is no tesseract for New York or the Thanos snap to happen or the threat of HYDRA using it in Winter Soldier. He saves the whole timeline just keeping it hidden in the garage and doesn't have to lift a finger. Just out Zola to rescue Bucky and crush HYDRA. He doesn't have to do anything. To that timeline, he would just be Steve Rogers returning. It would just get weird when they find the plane in the ice, but it doesn't matter because it would all get erased any way when he finally goes back in time to replace the tesseract. He can just say he was a clone and people would probably believe it, including frozen Steve.

[@lou19x]

Didn’t Wong die and get brought back by strange in his solo film?

[@RammusTheArmordillo]

Yeah, I'm glad they didn't keep they rule out, it's arbitrary, kinda stupid and makes a lot of inconsistencies

[@monsesh1316]

A more apparent one was when Vision died then Thanos reversed the death with time stone.

[@firefly2472]

Time travel and reversing time is something els you know.

[@kyoken8691]

Strange revived him by reversing the flow of time, not traveling back in time. This btw is a handwave to cover this plot hole because in physics both are the same, but in fiction it can be different. Because we don't really know how traveling back in time works in practice.

[@muhammadarifbillah984]

Time stone kinda special, it slide through time instead of traveling it.

[@fabiannavarro9944]

My theory is they deleted the scene because tony already says “time tends to mess with you back, you’ll see” to cap which means the alternate realities will appear in the next phases of the mcu

[@CherylKhan80]

Great video (as always). However this went way over my head. lol. I tried to keep up with how time travel works in the MCU and after watching Loki, I'm just more confused. But I'm still enjoying the ride regardless. :)

[@shivrajpatil90]

Death is irreversible what? Thanos reversed death of vision in infinity war

[@ilamathysekar6177]

Shivraj Patil he’s kind of robot !? May be that’s why😬🤧

[@tylerplayzz8697]

@@ilamathysekar6177 He still has sentience though

[@maninthetrenchcoat5603]

@@tylerplayzz8697 I mean Vision himself isn't alive, it's the Mind Stone that gives him life. But the Mind Stone is also just a physical construct as well. So destroying it isn't exactly death either.

[@chanduchillar_7629]

Doctor Strange too reverses Wong's death

[@shabir1606]

and strange reversed wong's death. but this doesn't matter because he explained in the video why they cut that out. that referring to 'death is irreversible'

[@amcaesar]

Instead of all the confusion time-travel schemes, maybe we can talk about Sonic the Hedgehog's teeth?

[@amcaesar]

@bryan diaz varela Why not?

[@amcaesar]

@bryan diaz varela Of course! How short-sighted of me! And I love seagoing films no less -- I better go get some limes.

[@niizzy7485]

i understand why they'd want to have steve being on the same timeline that this all happened, but never made himself known. Because old steve goes really really well.. with the hydra captain america comic book story. Which we'll eventually see in screens if all goes well. All the key hints already hit, steve picking thors hammer, hydra lines and his aging.

[@marksdad10]

I understand what you're hinting at but I disagree. If that was the case, why would he return to the present and give Sam the shield?

[@MightyElemental]

I prefer steve living in the MCU the whole time. Makes more sense than explaining how he managed to time travel again without any of the avengers knowing.

[@imkluu]

I believe he lived in an alternate timeline that was then merged with the MCU timeline at the moment that Cap traveled to return the stones. so old Steve knowing when that was, went to where it happened to be there at that time when the two timelines merged. T his is why they didn't at first see the old Cap sitting there because until Young Cap left, he wasn't there. It wasn't until Cap traveled back in tome that the timelines merged and Old Cap having traveled to the spot where he knew this was happening would then appear.

[@kathrynbourgeois9016]

love this theory

[@Xyruk]

No need for it to be merging timelines. Steve could've lived out his life in the alternate timeline, keeping the time travel device with him, so he has the time coordinates, and when Tony and Bruce came of age brought them together to create a new machine to send him back to the other timeline.

[@Tan87ful]

@@Xyruk I have this same theory too

[@lukeferraro01]

imkluu There is no merging timelines. That wasn’t established in the movie

[@lukeferraro01]

Xyruk The only way Steve could’ve came back to the original timeline is by coming back through the quantum realm when hulk pressed the button to allow him to come back. It’s a plot hole

[@dealmakerdreamtaker5257]

Me:watches video My last 5 brain cells: we live in a society

[@andyrew8080]

He wouldn't have to snap coulsin back to life because hes already alive.

[@novareee2464]

Not as of Season 5 sadly :( though Coulson was implied to be alive well into the Infinity war stages. Idk if S.H.I.E.L.D. is still considered canon, but they start dabbling in time travel in that series as well, and it's hard to pin what era the last 2 seasons were in relation to the main MCU.

[@acytra1020]

@@novareee2464 true isn’t he a machine in the last season so the real coulsin is really dead

[@w.s.soapcompany94]

They can make movies about all the challenges Steve had returning the stones and his life with Peggy. Maybe he "Free jacks" Natasha and Tony out of their main timelines for some adventure as well.

[@nico77212]

I like the old steve being in the same mcu timeline, that would make him the mastermind working in the dark, that would also bring more depth to his character like suffering internally knowing that his best friend had to go through alot of pain.

[@mrscookiepie]

What about ignoring the fact that Hydra were taking over SHIELD whilst his wife was director? What about his wife moving to Cal and having lusty feelings for another man? What about not doing anything when his best friend was about to murder his other best friend and his wife? Sorry but the whole idea is just so utterly out of character that it's not possible.

[@nico77212]

@@mrscookiepie and that's part of the struggle knowing what's about to happen and not being able to do anything about it cuz that would ruin the time line. That would be an amazing story of putting the world first before himself and everybody that he loves.

[@ElffieElix]

I think they're going to fix it in Loki to where they reveal time to be one constant and make Loki go back from where he disappeared in endgame

[@onyxxproductions8187]

They would have to or there would be a timeline with no Thanos snap because he couldn't find the sixth stone and where Gomora isn't sacrificed and Black Widow doesn't die and Tony doesn't have to sacrifice himself and... wait a minute....

[@jardob]

Watching this after finishing Loki season 1 really gives you a different perspective.

[@skaus2184]

This doesn't explain how Thanos was around to mastermind all the events that lead up to his original snap, since he jumped forward in time and died.

[@AlexerXodiaczoderia]

It's the same alternate reality gig with that Thanos. The 2014 Thanos came from an alternate timeline when Nebula and Rhodey went to get the power stone on Morag, and nebula was found and captured by that thanos. That thanos then used the time travel technology to travel back to the Avengers present day timeline, to try and reclaim the stones to basically remake the universe in his image, only to be snapped away by Tony. Thus, given multiverse theory, there is now a substantially large alternate timeline where thanos just up and dissapeared.

[@taron0]

The alternate timeline branch that 2014 Thanos existed in continued to exist until Steve returned the stones to that reality. Since the stones were still in the present day, Thanos was able to travel to the main timeline using the time machine at the Avenger's facility thanks to evil Nebula. Once Steve returned the stones to that timeline, that branch would be clipped. It's pretty confusing TBH.

[@winchesterinc.5643]

I felt like I was with you most of the way and then got confused. This happened multiple times. ...and that was my real life version of time travel, being stuck in a never ending loop of clarity and confusion.

[@McSuperfly101]

I always assumed that returning the stones had less to do with simply having to delete all the new branches that had been created and was more about those realities ultimately being vulnerable without the stones. For instance, if they had never returned the Time Stone then _that_ timeline/reality would've been defenseless against Dormammu. With no Power Stone the GotG would've never gotten together and been around to stop Ego from destroying the universe etc.

[@chiragkaushal]

But they were alternate realities It wouldn't have mattered much since they do Not Interfere with the original timeline.. Maybe othere means could have been taken to revert the things or in that reality Things were supposed to be like that?

[@McSuperfly101]

@Chirag Kaushal - But it would’ve mattered to the alternate realities and that’s exactly why the Ancient One was reluctant to give Banner the Time Stone... “This may benefit your reality but my new one, not so much. In this new branched reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world will be over run. Millions will suffer”.

[@underworld323]

And Vision Ultra Wanda and Quiksilver wouldn't been created and given powers with out the mind stone and Jarvis would've still been Tony Straks ai

[@summertyme5748]

Correct. time travel is to alternate realities. Stones must be returned so that universe’s can function normally since the stones control the universe. To reconverge a time line you have to revert what ever change you made. Yes - that would include taking back a stone, but also, taking back the hammer.... finding Loki and recapturing before he can commit havoc [lol, yeah right] and on and on..... It is the implication of EndGame that they *did not* reconverge the timelines because too much went wrong with almost every trip.

[@budstermcgreen6360]

@@McSuperfly101 exactly...and in the main timeline now...that weapon is gone. No infinity stones. Probably going to be a pretty big plot point in the new Doctor Strange movie. He tries to use it as a weapon in infinity war...but Maw wrapped him up. Would've love to of seen what he was going to do with it. He can't just show up in his new movie with it and they not explain how he got it back. Maybe our reality will over run with bad guys and he'll have to figure out a way to stop em without it? But their "chief weapon" doesn't exist anymore in the main timeline. ✌️

[@YodaMan.]

so this is the one thing that dr strange said had to happen to win. not ironman sacrificing himself. but steve staying in the past to maintain the main timeline. he was the constant that held everything together.

[@onyxxproductions8187]

No, Steve was in a different timeline that was created when the 1945 tesseract was taken. He returned all the stones except the tesseract so there was no New York, Thanos snap, or HYRDA programs. He saved the world in that timeline by just hiding it in his garage. He could tell fake frozen Steve that he was a clone and every one would believe him. He waits until fake Peggy dies to finally go back again and replace it, which erases that timeline and pops him back into the present timeline. He was still a hero in the alternate timeline without lifting a finger.

[@apposgaming8873]

Him: Explains Time Travel Me: Visible Confusion

[@Mr_No_Name_1]

Time travel is confusing 😓

[@fangozens]

Ikr it makes no sense

[@scarletpsychowolf3578]

I think Endgame has the easiest version of time travel. There's no consequences towards your timeline, you're just screwing over the new alternate timelines you just made based on your time travel actions.

[@imbadman6658]

Time travel movies are good when made correctly. But in the endgame they screwed it up in the ending where thanos and his army got dusted. It should make a riffle effect in the present.

[@geleeers7391]

Thanos and his army turned into dust except Gamora.... i cannot comprehend this part lol

[@j-asher]

@@geleeers7391 Tony willed Thanos' and his army out of existence, she wasn't fighting with his army in the final battle.

[@robertrossiter346]

so by taking the stones back to where they were gotten, steve rogers basically destroyed multiple entire universes... thanos only managed half of life in one universe, not entire universes.

[@Zack-fu4lo]

Captain america stronger than thanos confirmed

[@cosmicremix311]

@Dan out of the 14 billion he saw. He didn't see every outcome. There are infinite outcomes and therefore, infinite ways they could have won

[@CodenameDuchess1984]

old steve always existing (closed loop) it just makes the most sense to me, because even with fore knowledge of Bucky's torture et al, changing anything else might jeopardize their victory in end game

[@onyxxproductions8187]

In the new timeline created when the tesseract was stolen, all Steve had to do is hide the tesseract to prevent all the major events from happening and live out his life with fake Peggy. That's it. He still saves the world from Thanos, New York, HYDRA programs, etc. No need for Avengers or SHIELD. Then he goes back in time after Peggy dies to replace the tesseract and erase that timeline and pop back into the present.

[@ceiii7190]

what really bother me is only "3" scene, that would giving a valid point to the writer theory about the finale. 1st scene , if just steve arrive by car ( OLD MAN NOT SUDDENLY POP UP SITTING IN THE PARK BEHIND THEM ), to show that, he been hiding and disguise as normal man for the entire time without interacting with himself or / avenger, waiting the exact moment to meet them at the future. 2nd scene showing 6 stone and 7 serum , meaning 6 for each stone , 1 for going to peggy and not going back to the future. (teasing he will come back, but in a steve way ) 3rd is showing steve watching news about himself/avenger in the tv. BOOM, and if it happen to be branching timeline, well. TVA just need to delete it, because judging by the point of view of TVA, older steve was not variant but it was meant to be in the sacred timeline. all approved. and finally - he would not save bucky because, he know his past self going to do it in the future and it was success . why do you still bother about it while knowing u will win in the end?.

[@CKdunno]

I love how Hulk’s hands are just Hockey Gloves

[@codeplaysgames7681]

Marvel: We do everything right. DC: Even Time travel? Marvel: Lets not talk about that.

[@alpborakirte801]

It's easy for DC they can do anything they want as long as Flash erases the existing timeline and clear the board for a new one.

[@dastgirshikalgar46]

Technically this is the best take regarding time travel MCU has taken ,

[@KaranKumar-bk6eg]

@@alpborakirte801 They have Waverider too.

[@curvy8301]

It kinda makes sens now Thanks

[@adriandobre9366]

But the Loki part created a new reality, therefore captain would have aged in a different timeline, he retuned the space stone in the 50's so Loki would still have escaped... It doesn't add up 😒

[@onyxxproductions8187]

There were 7 new timelines created, not one. Each timeline is erased when that stone is replaced. Steve just hangs on to the tesseract in his and waits until Peggy dies to replace it and it is erased. Loki's never got replaced so it continues.

[@hello3.14dodododododododod5]

Alternate reality makes much more sense. The one timeline that reformed after the stones were returned was its own occurrence. Whilst captain America going back in time created another timeline- separate from the ones created by taking the stones .

[@chiragkaushal]

But If he Returned the Stones at the Same Time and same Spot where they were taken doesn't it mean that it never really happened instead of creating new timeline?

[@Croftice1]

@@chiragkaushal He probably didn't though. Remember they took the Space Stone as Tesseract and the Aether in an ampoule (from Jane Foster's blood), but when Steve went back to return the stones, he had a suit case that Banner opened and closed to show that all the stones were stones, no Aether ampoule, no Tesseract, just stones. So if it doesn't matter how Steve returned the stones, then it surely doesn't matter when exactly he has to return them, only that he eventually returns them. Which takes us to the time travel form in this movie. Since they use Quantum Realm, which is a realm connected to other realms, they actually don't travel in their own time, they jump to alternate realities, that look identical to our past. And since those are alternate realities, then every change happening there will also stay there, and won't affect the main reality (fits with Hulk's explanation, "you can't change the past, or the future"). Steve had only to return the stones to save those realities, not to erase the branches. That was, what the Ancient One was talking about with Banner, "if you take the stones, they will benefit your reality, but doom ours". She gave him the Time Stone after he promised to return them. Yes, there was the talk about branches and how returning the stones to their exact points would erase those branches, but that would make more sense if they actually traveled through their own timeline. But they entered Quantum Realm to "time travel", again a realm connected to other realms, since when is time its own realm? If you use the Time Stone, you can move time forth or back, you could actually time travel, but with Quantum Realm? I think it's quite impossible. With Scott being de-aged and over-aged, could be explained by taking the copies of younger and older Scott out of their respective places, eventhough they behaved like it's still the same Scott. Maybe that's another feature of the Quantum Realm, or maybe Hulk had it connected in a wrong way. I don't know.

[@onyxxproductions8187]

@@Croftice1 There are special branches only created by the stealing of an infinity stone that is different than alternate reality branches or the multiverse. Those branches were erased when the stones were replaced. All but Loki's. So they traveled back to those precise branches, not millions of branches that are all missing the stones.

[@Ephideltrance]

Goes to show you even though Avengers tried, using time travel in stories always tend to be confusing or contradictory on some level- not even the time stone changes that law...lol

[@MrMetalpunx]

Honestly thought cap was the secret husband from the old Peggy scene, Its the only reasonable answer for why Peggy and Howard never found frozen Cap

[@SCRaetz]

I'm just thankful that the underwriters of the MCU are on top of this kind of thing so that we can agree, albeit somewhat, on a cohesive narrative. Not like the a certain popular sequel trilogy that will remain unnamed....

[@alwayswatching5545]

You mean the Star Wars sequels? The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker respectively? The ones on par with the prequels due to bad narrative decisions?

[@kingstarscream320]

@@alwayswatching5545 The ones far worse than the prequels due to bad administrative decisions. At least the prequel has cool characters and provides juicy world-building lore.

[@alwayswatching5545]

@@kingstarscream320 eeeeh cool characters is debatable Only reason any of the characters are liked now is because of the Clone Wars People were never exactly fond of any of them apart from Obi-Wan really World building lore, again, slightly debatable, but it’s very true that we did get a lot of world building

[@SteamHeadProductions]

My head cannon: Steve went shopping on the branches, picked up more branch-Pyms, an extra branch-suit, and a branch-Peggy. Steve and branch-Peggy lived a nice life on a branch of their choosing. After branch-Peggy died, Steve did the Trim, and headed back to reality. Branch-shows like Disney Plus Loki either have a Trim looming in their future, or maybe Steve was a sloppy gardener due to his old guy tears over losing his branch-wife, and Trimming like 5 universes of branch-people.

[@onyxxproductions8187]

The tesseract was stolen twice so he could not cut that branch. Loki's timeline still exists.

[@onuw]

Steve always goes back for Peggy, so there's an old Steve in every reality. He isn't native to it, so he doesn't disrupt it.

[@onyxxproductions8187]

There are only 7 new timelines created when each time stone is taken (two for the tesseract). These are not multi-verse realties. There are 7 new timelines in this universe. Each new timeline is erased when the respective stone is replaced, according to the Ancient One. Steve can replace the five stones to erase those timelines, live out his life with Peggy hiding the tesseract (so no New York or Thanos snap in that timeline), then wait until she dies to finally go back in time again to replace the stone and erase timeline number 6 which pops him back into the main timeline. The last timeline left is Loki's, which won't be erased until Loki's tesseract is replaced back in that timeline when it was stolen.

[@Asmodeus696]

I think the version where the Ancient One is fighting off a Chitauri flyer or two fits in with the version where she's just lounging since the combat moment reads to me as a "You're too close to my house, get off my lawn." moment. Almost dismissive of the Chitauri outside of just making sure they don't damage the Sanctum too much.

[@shapshooter8669]

I think this needs a part two after all of the multiverse and Loki things and how the future planning of that affected their decision to change some of the scene as well as the theory of time travel in the MCU