VATSIM: 10 Differences in Flying in Europe vs. the US!

[@AviationPro]

A bit earlier release than usual for those flying the Cross the Pond today! ;) Have fun! 👉 What are some other differences you have experienced? Leave them in the comments here! :) 👉 Check out Thursday's video: VATSIM VFR Flight - Celebrating 5 Million views by drawing a big '5' in the sky! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jai1lIyjrdaqeqs 👉 Become a patron: patreon.com/AviationPro 👉 Why do People 'Play' Flight Simulator? kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2XThZlojbFsmJI

[@michaelmm4684]

Hi Evert. Last time I made a remark that you might be tired because of your puffy eyes.. But looking at you now ...you need to eat more salt , bu t only sea salt or Himalayan salt.. 1/2 teaspoon in one liter of water.. and drink about 2 liters of war a day...take care

[@leov4751]

Good things to know as an ATC member when helping pilots from across the pond.

[@davidhaynes8614]

I think read-backs on frequencies are different too. In Europe, I often hear the entire frequency read back. CTRL: Contact center on 133.15 (one-three-three decimal one-five) PLT: Contact center on one-three-three decimal one-five ... In North America it is often shortened: CTRL: Contact center on 133.15 (one-three-three point one-five) PLT: Contact center on thirty-three fifteen ... Also, in Canada, controllers use 'radar identified' vs 'radar contact'

[@tommyhosteng7799]

You could even cut out “contact”

[@alexmollen9339]

Very nice video! I fly in both Europe and USA in VATSim, so this was a good summary and review for me. One thing you may wish to add that is relatively unknown in the US is that some European and North African countries use a North-South system to determine flight levels and altitudes. The US and most of the world have the East (0-179) Odd, West (180-359) Even system. But some countries use a North (270-089) Even, South (090-269) Odd system. The countries that I am aware of that use this are France, Morocco, North Algeria (DAAA) for flights between DAAA and Europe, Portugal, Spain, Italy and Switzerland. So depending on the situation you may need to make a step climb or descent. Flying from London to Geneva, you can remain at an odd level (you need an odd altitude under both systems) but flying Berlin to Barcelona you make an adjustment when crossing the French border.

[@AviationPro]

Thanks Alex! Good tip indeed. You might want to look up flights on Flightradar to see what altitudes they fly on if it's unclear. Sometimes, during cruise you might have to change to an odd or even level as you enter a different 'system'.

[@AviationPro]

Thanks Alex! Good tip indeed. You might want to look up flights on Flightradar to see what altitudes they fly on if it's unclear. Sometimes, during cruise you might have to change to an odd or even level as you enter a different 'system'.

[@chriscran2003]

France use a East/West system.

[@karlosbricks2413]

A lot of these, such as the frequencies, I just read back what ever is said to me, for example, I'm British, but if I'm told to ''yield to a southwest 737, right to left'' I will read it back like it was said, and then worry about the actual meaning of what was said

[@AviationPro]

True, that's also a good tactic. For me that kind of happens automatically at some point ;)

[@chrisdimis91]

I'm currently in training to become a controller at Boston ARTCC. I'm coming from Europe and indeed there are many differences in phraseology. Many times European phraseology is coming in and I have to catch myself and switch to US phraseology. Though I'm flying at the US many times training as a controller is way more complex in the US if you did not get used to it. One thing I like the most it's that it's the straight forward approach to the instructions. No need to keep the frequency occupied for a long time

[@vinctendo_tv]

I once, in EDDT, had been given headings, because it was very busy. So the clue of the controlers(and we had all) was that every second plane followed the SID turning to the left and the other planes turned on vectors to the right. This was kinda very cool I think.

[@markusthl]

The clearances also are slightly different in the US. For example in the US they say "as filed" instead of "flight planned route" and in the US they always give you an altitude and a departure frequency. Edit: And most of the time you get a second altitude: For example "climb 5000 expect 12000 one zero minutes after departure"

[@AviationPro]

Thanks for sharing! :)

[@giulianoviola8286]

In Argentina when you don’t have an ATC and you want to know the TL what you have to do is follow a simple rule: TA+ 1000ft if the qnh is above 1014 TA+ 1500ft if the qnh is under 1013 Example: in Buenos Aires the TA is 3000ft and the QNH 1017 so the TL will be 4000ft BUT if the QNH changes and now is QNH 1011 the TL will be 4500ft

[@AviationPro]

Thanks for sharing that knowledge! :)

[@agustinmarinangeli]

Gracias locura! Arranqué en vatsim hace poco y me cuesta saber donde cambiar jaja.

[@giulianoviola8286]

Agustin Marinangeli denada!! Me alegra que te haya servido ;)

[@martinhansen9036]

Hi AvPro I recently got cleared to Control GND and DEL in the edmonton fir in Canada and I usually fly in Europe so the diffrences I have noticed are that aprons are uncontrolled and you dont call for p/s they like to shorten the phraseology and instead of saying as filed we say flight planned route.

[@AviationPro]

Yep, those are indeed some slight differences :)

[@srniqo]

In my case Europ have been more pacient with me... Im new :)

[@rbsims6376]

Love your video and instructions. Would like to see you fly over Pacific North-west in the U.S. someday. Nice scenery there...

[@mattlindasson]

wish I watched this BEFORE I flew to EGLL today XD

[@boahneelassmal]

regarding trans-lvl on arrivals in europe. On the STAR as well as on the final approach charts (ILS/VOR | NDB etc) transition altitude is always given. So what I do is take 1000ft above transition altitude as transition level

[@CrapuRO]

As a Comercial Pilot in real life... Not on Vatsim network I can say it's just a preference between 121 point 8 and 121 decimal 8... For example... When I fly over Romania, all controller he says "WizzAir XXXX, Bucharest Radar, radar contact".... And you know... Romania it's in Europe =]

[@toiletpaper2278]

The PasaH Maybe it’s because in Romanian point is “punct”.

[@CrapuRO]

@@toiletpaper2278 point it's "punct" and decimal it's "zecimal"... In every country. Trust me..

[@kreshnik1710]

The EU books wants it decimal

[@pauljohnson9260]

Yes agreed

[@kreshnik1710]

Aviationpro i must say that you would make a great real life arline pilot. Your level of knowledge is amazing and your attitude suits very well in the industry. Keep it up mate and wish you all the best in your future career.

[@AviationPro]

Thanks Niku! :) Hope to be one some day ;)

[@Elecdon]

Thanks for the video. Great sum up of the differences!

[@Miku-uw2sl]

I was once flying LHR-JFK as BAW173A. It became a bit wordy saying “Speedbird One Seventy-Three Alpha Heavy”

[@Bag_monkey]

And Russian metars report winds in meters per second (MPS) instead of knots

[@JayantKumar-dn3zu]

My greatest fear on the vatsim network is the different accent of the controllers. I explore and simulate on various routes with vatsim and Most of my flights go silent on unicom. But whenever there is a controller, my stress level goes up largely due to the accent.

[@randomperson130]

Use the text option instead on VPilot then

[@devinrufe5532]

The only time you’ll ever see a ramp controller in the US is during a VERY busy event. Like CTP.

[@shader26]

Also what about airspace’s? In Norway there is only class A, C,D, and E. Also you mention charts but also sectionals have a lot of difference. Just offhand the designation for VFR checkpoints, colors, the way they depict airspace..

[@zenronaut]

I like Canada because like with our English its a mix of US and EU rules, We use Decimal, but use the US version of call signs and etc.

[@AviationPro]

Haha yeah. To be honest I have never really flown into Canada, but love to hear that sometime :)

[@theflightsimboy4310]

I started to fly on VATSIM thanks to your vids !

[@MrTripsJ]

The FlightSim Boy me too, just got it today. Didn’t do much, just tuned in and listened

[@AviationPro]

Awesome! :)

[@BierKriegerHD]

What happens when there is no atc online (for example in chicago). Do you decide the heading for the first wp yourself and how does it look in the FMC? Thanks for the video and keep up the content ;)

[@AviationPro]

I would just vector myself around, or if traffic allows, just fly direct to the waypoint if that doesn't cross any flight paths of other departing or arriving traffic.

[@alexmollen9339]

If the SID chart has a runway departure heading, I would fly that to a reasonable altitude (say, 2000 ft) and then go direct to the first waypoint in the SID. If it's behind you, you could fly a traffic pattern (even if you're IFR) while climbing to avoid overflying the airport you just departed. There are no hard rules when you are on 122.8. Listen to other traffic, adjust if necessary.

[@pepijnbosvelt2526]

I was flying AMS to CDG yesterday, with an Air France callsign, and I was expecting them to speak French to me. I speak no French.I freaked out for nothing tho, LFPG tower was very kind and spoke to me in English

[@benjaminp2405]

All the controllers in France I’ve spoken to speak English. But still it’s the only country I’ve flown in Vatsim to that speak their native language in addition to English

[@pepijnbosvelt2526]

@@benjaminp2405 yeah, in real life they also speak french to pilots (which could cause some confusion) I think its pretty cool though!

[@SebastianWoodard]

The issue wasn't ever phraseology changes for me. It was always accent changes, especially flying down south through Mexican airspace.

[@Nikola16789]

(Almost) Nowhere in the world ATC controls or assigns gates. It's completely different area of responsibility.

[@denizfiratturanli]

Seperate ramp controllers matter is same in Europe :)

[@prasanthtadiparthy4896]

Interesting :)

[@AviationPro]

:)

[@redwan_lmati]

Thank you so much

[@AviationPro]

You’re welcome!

[@cad3515]

Hey very useful and informative video!! I would like to ask a question based on filing of flightplans on vatsim. If you are flying from the US to europe, must you add the SID and STAR in the flightplan or do you add only the SID in flightplan, or you don’t add the SID AND STAR at all? thxx :)

[@AviationPro]

Thanks! In the US you usually add the SID and STAR, but in Europe you don’t so when flying US to Europe file a SID but not a STAR.

[@cad3515]

AviationPro Nice thanks for the reply :))

[@burgadahz17]

EUROPE: *Be direct, without unnecessary complications or nonsense.* UNITED STATES: *Make life unnecessarily complicated for no apparent reason.*

[@pavan151]

I usually fly in Australia as that's my base but I went for a flight in EU and USA recently on the network. My callsign was AAL505 and in US they said "American FIFTY-FIVE". In my head, I was like uh, it's FIVE-ZERO-FIVE but never said anything to the controller since it was my first flight in that region. Your video now has cleared that up 😅

[@budguy21]

that controller was wrong. You're not supposed to combine first 2 digits of a 3 digit flight number, for exactly this reason: it will sound like 55.

[@whenlizardsfly]

Inexperienced controller prob

[@alaqmaargandhi4526]

I did the flight yesterday which was my first flight in the US and I keep saying United 2 9 4 0, and the controller was like United 29 40, at some point I could see him getting frustrated and emphasizing the 29 40 and since it was a short flight from KLAX to KLAS I had on,y one controller and he was mad by the time I had completed my flight.

[@alexmollen9339]

Whereas 29 40 is the standard US phrase, I don't think that saying 2 9 4 0 as a pilot is any reason to get upset...

[@alaqmaargandhi4526]

Alex Mollen I wouldn’t think it be a issue in real life, for the most the controller may correct your phraseology, but I guess on VATSIM controllers do get real grumpy about it. Also with French controllers, they like to talk French over the radios at least on VATSIM which sometimes leaves me confused when flying into a French airdrome, since I’ve no idea what other traffic is doing around me, since I can’t understand or speak French.

[@alexmollen9339]

@@alaqmaargandhi4526 Yeah, I live in the Caribbean and I've flown (real life) around Martinique and Guadeloupe... My French doesn't go much further than "Lamentin Tower, bonjour!". I haven't really noticed them getting grumpy though. A different matter is flying over Venezuela. Some controllers are fine, but some barely speak English. I once overheard an exchange between an Air France 747 and Venezuelan ATC, it was clear both had trouble expressing themselves and understanding each other in English. Pretty worrisome come to think of it. Good thing the skies are mostly empty :-)

[@350smooth9]

You here more French when flying around Montreal too IRL. I think they even have a separate ATIS in French.

[@SuburbanFox]

Very interesting - I knew about the RT phrases from playing FSX - however I feel bound to point out that standard setting isn't called "standard QNH", because it's not a QNH. QNH stands for "Query Nil Height" (i.e. sea level), and will vary in order to give you a fixed position above the sea, but standard setting never changes, which means your actual height does, which is why we don't use flight levels below transition altitude. :) But yeah, I too started vatsimming from your videos, although as a UK based VFR pilot my choices are limited because tower controllers are usually only in class A airspace.

[@AviationPro]

Thanks for your comment! :)

[@Tom-ih8gr]

Just a point, QNH doesn’t actually stand for anything, it is just a Q code. Have a google, quite interesting the background.

[@jonaspilot]

Standard presser is called QNE. And yes its å bunch of these Q-codes... QNH, QNE, QNF, QDM etc..

[@tristanderidder5622]

Nice

[@AviationPro]

Thanks!

[@timothy.niklas]

They say the most time ATC:Contact 121.8 Pilot: 21.8, bye

[@alexmollen9339]

For ground frequencies some controllers might give an even shorter instruction in the US; since they almost all start with 121.x, you might hear "Contact Ground point eight" meaning 121.8

[@Gvlogs200]

Watching this just b4 going into the US from Europe 😎

[@JosephSeabourne]

I think American comms are just a lot more laid back and not as standardised. One thing in the US that I don't particularly like as a European simmer is when American pilots read-back an instruction and say "for" before their callsign. "clear for takeoff runway two for American twenty-nine ninety-one". As the 0 in runway 02 is dropped in the US, was that them saying they were cleared on RWY 2 (02 in Europe) (heading +/- 020°) or RWY 24 (heading +/- 240°)? See what I mean? Also, another difference is that in Europe it is common for airline callsigns to have letters in them. e.g. Ryanair 2GF. Don't think I've ever seen that in the US.

[@sal_strazzullo]

Yeah finally the video that I suggested :D

[@kevincole2484]

I was trying to talk to ENOR Center today for the first time, but i'm connected to the USA-East VATSIM Server. For some reason the frequency didn't show up on xpilot, even though center was online. Does anybody know how to connect/talk to European controllers, from the USA?

[@jacobhuber278]

Do you need a microphone to fly vatsim as I fly on vatsim in but do not have any way of speaking to the atc controllers

[@alexmollen9339]

You can use text, but it's cumbersome for both pilots and controllers especially if the airspace is busy. Controllers in a region typically communicate with each other via Teamspeak or other means and it's not uncommon to hear "Oh s**t, another text pilot" :-). If you are serious about flying on VATSim I highly recommend investing in a headset with a microphone.

[@jonbrre2466]

Can you make a video about what cross the pond is

[@descent815]

bear killer 2000 aka S. Kjos if you don’t know what it is just look on Vatsim.

[@krozareq]

Ground controller assigns gates? The pilots should know well in advance their gate, otherwise how would passengers even know where to go?

[@Dayhmian]

Leuke video, Een video idee. Hoe kan je zien hoe je in verschillende landen vfr moet vliegen. Waar kan je dat allemaal vinden op de charts. Groet,

[@alexmollen9339]

Most charts will have a glossary, just compare charts from different countries. Publishing all the differences would be a huge job! I personally stick with Jeppesen, it's the same everywhere.

[@DanielDuhon]

I didn’t know “decimal” vs “point” was phraseology, I thought it was just something they said. I’ve always said point, oops 😂

[@isacgrnbech9430]

Standard qnh in europa is 1013.25

[@budguy21]

show me how you put 1013.25 into your aircraft

[@RNPAR0.1]

Runways: in the US for example RWY 8L is "Eight left" while in Europe and most parts of the world it's "Zero Eight Left" Same with call signs, instead of saying "Runway Two Four" (RWY24) in America they'll say "Runway Twenty-four"

[@AviationPro]

Good one! :)

[@kyleliu6196]

I'm a controller in vatusa and we always read out the numbers individually in a runway. 36L is three six left. However, as you said, we do ommit zero from runway names if they are a single digit.

[@RNPAR0.1]

@@kyleliu6196 👍👍

[@Thrust-Set-Simulations]

Yeah, I never hear Rwy twenty four in the US on Pilotedge or VATSIM, always runway two four.

[@whenlizardsfly]

That last part is not true atleast irl, I have never ever heard someone call a runway 26L for example as twenty six left. 95% of the time it’s two six left. But I fly in the northwestern region so maybe it’s different in other areas.

[@martintejera5365]

@aviationpro one question, how do you deal with dust in your pc?

[@AviationPro]

My PC case is open and elevated from the floor which really helps preventing large dust accumulation :)

[@Robin-bk2lm]

I'll stick to one side until I can do it well. Thx.

[@mikkykyluc5804]

A tip for my hamburger-friends: Americans(controllers especially) tend to speak extremely fast and often don't enunciate clearly. Maybe they think it makes them sound cool or professional, or maybe it's just that they're used to having fellow native speakers, but it's difficult to understand sometimes. I don't have this problem with British ones, mind.

[@budguy21]

I find the opposite to be true.

[@British919]

@@budguy21when an airspace is busy controllers tend to speak fast so its true for both

[@virtualunitedpilot]

I'd say the Germans on vatsim speak English really well better then most

[@skydriver5709]

That's probably because German is the Father language to English. Many still have issues pronouncing English V and W though. They say "Fictor", and "Viskey".

[@herbertsandla4444]

also in the US the Sky is full of "Heavys" 😊, in Europe not so much 🤔

[@Covid-bv4hp]

Europe uses a different system to differentiate between wake categories. They use class A, B, C, etc. In the US they use light medium heavy and super. So thats why you usually dont hear heavy or super when flying in Europe. Just clutters the frequency really

[@Hugocraft]

thumbnail read as, Europe vatsim vs US!

[@jul7985]

When flying in the US I use VATSIM, but for Europe I really recommend IVAO instead of VATSIM. It has overall better coverage. Both are decent so it would be good if they would merge but that’s very unlikely.

[@dotwallop544]

There's a reason they split up in the first Place... :)

[@Aleksandar6ix]

Ok, your 'callsign flaws' are because of US Laziness NOT because they actually have a different system. There is a standard... Europe uses it

[@budguy21]

wrong

[@turgut104]

Why fly when you can and keep teleporting from left to right and back left?

[@burgadahz17]

there is nothing worse than a a guy as atc with a super BAD mic, speaking fast. Is impossible to understandand. And if u ask them to repeat they get mad. Those are the 90% of the atc people in US. Is so fucking annoying.

[@D00kerT]

My dude. How do you not have a freaking TrackIR? How!? I can't even fly outside of VR anymore but not having a TrackIR at a minimum? GET ONE!

[@avocadoflight]

Hattrack has been pretty great for me.

[@Hoekstes]

Funny the Yanks, US imperial, US English and US ATC lol 🤪

[@budguy21]

When you land a man on the moon and 2 world wars you get to make the rules

[@benedekhalda-kiss9737]

@@budguy21 Mind you you wouldn't have won ww2 without the Russians and wouldn't have landed a man on the moon without the germans(heck the soviets might've beat ya)

[@budguy21]

@@benedekhalda-kiss9737 oh really, lmfao. Pretty sure we woulda just nuked the FUCK out of germany, kid.

[@Salsuero]

I realize you're not American... but do you not know that we have a myriad of different accents here and that some can actually be kind of difficult to understand, even as an American? I'm not comparing the difference to the variety of English accents you'll hear flying from Scotland to Greece... but we do have our own variety that might be "uncomfortable" for someone who isn't used to the multiple American accents. I suspect that Europeans (and probably most of the world) are far better at deciphering what people are saying when it's in a different accent than Americans, though... so I doubt it would give an experienced pilot much trouble. Still -- just seemed like you were comparing us all as if we don't have our own regional dialects to contend with.

[@AviationPro]

I know, no worries haha :)

[@etaycohen8121]

Why all your videos have to be so longggggg

[@seniorpz1969]

they are very INFORMATIVE...maybe you'll learn something from it.

[@etaycohen8121]

Although I already know most of the things he uploads, I do learn from it new things sometimes. But hey.. they are very very long for no reason.. no need to talk so much. a lot of people can't get to the end of the video. But that is ok everything is ok :)

[@AviationPro]

That’s why there are timestamps in the description...

[@Thrust-Set-Simulations]

@etay Cohen why is your attention span so short?

[@rubbishruebe9800]

Why don't you fly on IVAO. There you have more ATC in Europe

[@AviationPro]

I'm personally fine with VATSIM already, don't really have the time to explore two networks at the same time.

[@Flying_Acehole]

IVAO *caugh*

[@AviationPro]

What about it?

[@YohanesArifinflaster29]

IVAO is number one ☝️

[@amazonalexa1599]

stop talking nonsense....In Europe you have to file SID and STAR in an IFR Fplan....

[@AviationPro]

Nope...

[@amazonalexa1599]

@@AviationPro Then Vatsim is not based on the real procedures..On IVAO and in the middle European Airspace Sid's and stars are filed. Look at the European flight procedures

[@AviationPro]

Look up some real world flight plans in Europe in this database here: edi-gla.co.uk The reason why we don't file SIDs and STARs is because you don't know what runway will be active by the time your get your clearance. Moreover, in Europe, even a single runway might have multiple SIDs to the same waypoint, so it really does not make sense to file a SID, and it doesn't happen in the real world either as you can see from the routes in the flight plan database.

[@dotwallop544]

@@amazonalexa1599 Honestly and with due respect, if you say that VATSIM isn't following real world procedures because of how IVAO operates, I think you should learn a little bit more about aviation before making such strong claims. AviationPro is totally correct. In Europe (except in some countries) you do not file SID/STAR because it does not work the same way as the SID/STAR procedures in the US. They are vastly runway dependent and are given to you by ATC. Check yourself before you wreck yourself...

[@dotwallop544]

Unlegit TV Okay?🤔 Because you come into a respected KZbinr’s comment section, who does a lot to help beginners, claiming he should stop talking nonesense. I cannot see how my comment was insulting, but yours definitely was. Treat others how you want others to treat you. Have a nice day. ;)