About Misogyny in FFXIV...

The recent discussions about women and the treatment of women in Final Fantasy 14 spaces have been really distasteful... So I wanted to talk about it.
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[@Izanagi-Arsene]

my only gripe in 14 is honestly with the cliquey types, and by cliquey types i mean the ones that treat 14 like it's high school simulator.

[@Jake38nine]

@Izanagi-Arsene Adults in-general haven't grown up past highschool. Just look at politics. Just a bunch of 40+ year olds acting like they're still in highschool.

[@Fettman501]

This, all of this

[@Hypercat0]

hello Limsa

[@grizzlybear6377]

I haven't experienced this yet, but I will beware of it if I do

[@Dwesk]

Woman or man, I think FFXIV can be extremely echo chamber-ish and cliquey, to the point where I prefer the outright "loose" toxicity of other games over the more manipulative/subtle approach of the toxicity that I've both encountered first hand or heard about. The "gcbtw" moniker doesn't come from nowhere.

[@basilchi8058]

Love the ff14 community but like all communities, there are gross people who definitely need to be called out. There is no excuse to be a creep period.

[@vergil443]

Youre right. The trans XIV community is flat out creepy at this point.

[@NiinyyEUW]

and those gross people are lalafells

[@Azulapus]

​@NiinyyEUW not all the time but yeah, there are stereotypes

[@NiinyyEUW]

@@Azulapus all the time, sign my petition to remove that useless race

[@grizzlybear6377]

​@@NiinyyEUWYou can't say that. That's racist

[@admiralthunderbunny4520]

My wife and I used to be raiders in EQ2 . . . while there are some bad actors in the FF community, it's a VERY small minority, way less than any other MMO we've played. People just need to remember that there will be bad actors in every community, we just need to blacklist the knuckle draggers and have fun with the chill people.

[@grip7777]

I'm a dude and one of the reasons I don't play higher level content anymore (played a lot in WoW) is what you mention here, and I'm not even the target so I can't imagine what it must be like for the people affected. I find it extremely wierd and uncomfortable when some guy starts to hit on a someone when he realizes that she is a girl and I would rather spend my saturday nights doing litteraly anything else other than being called a white knight for telling people off for catcalling online.

[@anthonyseverino8292]

if it keeps normies like you our of higher level content than I hope it keeps coming.

[@cyretsae1771]

@@anthonyseverino8292you’re an adult calling people normies because they don’t like toxicity please grow up

[@Dyxid]

@@anthonyseverino8292 Spoken like someone still progging Crystal Tower, lmao.

[@kickersmick6586]

​@@anthonyseverino8292My fault reddit warlord

[@Riffs4Serotonin]

You're a child. You gotta be with a mentality like that​@@anthonyseverino8292

[@kellyderg7294]

I still remember my original WoW guild, back in 2004, that was big enough to have 2 40 person raid groups plus all the logistics going. And how it exploded when the guild leader forced everyone to be on vent and speak. Because they didn't realize how many women were in the guild. I still remember the nightmare audio that happened when "WAIT THE HEALER OFFICER and most of our healers are GIIIIIIIIIIIIIRLS?!" And suddenly the DMs and sleezy shit went from 0 to 20000% in a couple of minutes. The guild completely fell apart, the women left pretty much immediately. (Because none of the women wanted to talk on vent in the first place because we knew what was going to happen), and the guild completely shattered to the wind within 48 hours. It was definitely a watershed moment of "Fuck, fuck, holy shit"

[@sacer666]

It's wild how guild and raiding experiences can vary when it comes to that stuff. In every single guild and raiding team I've been in wow, there has been girls and nobody batted an eye. Don't get me wrong, there certainly has been drama, but never related to the fact that the person belong to a specific gender.

[@markojohn480]

i wonder if reasons like this are why XIV only has a chat box option. I mean theres always other options like discord and such but this makes me think

[@markup6394]

Sounds about right...

[@Shikaitsu]

⁠@@markojohn480it is there use to be voice chat a long time ago but of course the game became inappropriate with slurs,and other things just like the video said. So it was removed and never returned . Voice chat is usually the death of things in games it’s either removed altogether or an option is put in to turn it off

[@markojohn480]

@@Shikaitsu that's a shame. It would make it easier to communicate mechanics.......but I'll admit I'd probably have some things to say mys3lf against idiots.......too much CoD though

[@heickelrrx]

I don't think this is FFXIV issue I believe it is Human society issue, this is happening outside gaming as well The root cause of these are rooted in fundamental complex society problem, some people have prejudice, some people taking advantages of the prejudice, causing even more prejudice, I am not sociologist so I can't say much, but these human society issue is.. Complex

[@BeeGay420]

It's both an FFXIV issue and there is that deeper element of it being a societal issue. Misogyny at a societal level will spill into all aspects of peoples lives, gaming included.

[@omensoffate]

It’s not even that complicated. People that play ff14 are terminally online and have no idea how to socialize 😂

[@heickelrrx]

@@omensoffate Thank you demonstrating my point and become the very example of Society issue with Your comment

[@ProjectBongo]

​@heickelrrx where did they belittle you for being female, you seem to be reaching for that victim card early

[@Enae-Esen]

@@ProjectBongo dude said "all of (X) people is bad!" they took a comment that well demonstrates a complex issue, reduced it, and then said "nuh-uh! all of those people just suck!" which is the very mentality the original comment was calling out.

[@khoiiifish]

Apologies in advance for the text wall. As a person with major social anxiety, I actually got into ffxiv because I felt that its community was the best to help me slowly crawl out of that shell. And overall, it has! But the sad part is that only really occurred after I had completely finished the msq. When I was still a sprout fresh into Heavensward, I tried doing a dungeon for the first time with other players. There was a boss mechanic that I didn't quite get (and being a PS4 player at that time, communication was admittedly difficult & I don't fault them for that) and the tank absolutely laid it into me. I never expected to come out of content in the game crying, but I did. And I never played with other players again outside of trials where it was mandatory (and I dreaded them as a result.) I left the game for a long while once I had just started Endwalker, then came back to it when I finally got my first gaming PC. And I remember that when I finally finished, I was happy, but also felt... kind of empty. Because I felt like I missed out on so much because I didn't play the game like it should have been played; with others. So, I resolved to go back and at least start with normal raids! And I've honestly had a blast and zero bad experiences since. It's really helped me open up and make more friends. But it's a shame that I was too scared to even try before I had already reached the end. I think most people have to realize that in any content, including high end, a lot of people learn best through practice. Even without considering the gender prejudice that is definitely apparent in some groups, people shouldn't have to feel too afraid of failure or harassment to even try.

[@kenzor4953]

lol what a wimp

[@kellevichy]

@@kenzor4953 and it's you that's the problem, not them :]

[@kellevichy]

@vineritres cool. you going to pay for it? did they ask for advice?

[@MidnightEkaki]

​@@kenzor4953lol what an asswipe

[@spetsu1]

Here, we go with fights in the comment section. For one, it's not a problem to mess up mechanics and learn from those mistakes. It's a problem when it constantly happens and you learn nothing. Two, it's casual content. Anyone taking that too serious need to relax and realize they're playing a game. It can literally be cleared with a dps and healer or by just one tank it's not that hard. Lastly if you have a negative experience with someone, just blacklist them and move on, it's also good to get criticized since it helps build thicker skin which you will need if you plan on running savage or ultimates.

[@aussiegirl10134]

I've played multiple MMOs since my childhood, there is always someone who says absolutely unhinged and creepy things they wouldn't say to other people simply because I am a woman. The amount of times people were waiting for me and my boyfriend (now husband) to break up. I had someone send me real-life money to try to win me over. Another who constantly sexually harassed me and always said "It's just a joke." Then there is the backhanded compliment: "I didn't think you would be good, but you're actually good for a girl." I feel like there is this extra pressure for women to not cause drama or claim "drama" because in my experience it's always the non-male person's fault. For me, I would keep these things to myself to not break up the party and everyone be mad at me. I have horrible anxiety when it comes to raiding from all my past experiences, even though I really enjoy end-game content. It's sad how few people can ruin things for others.

[@TENthe10th]

As someone who's been a guide/leader/sherpa a lot of raid partys in multiple games. If you encounter something like that and you don't want to call them out in front of others just dm the raid leader. Things like that are disappointingly common. And from my experience things always go a lot smoother once someone who makes the other players feel uncomfortable is out of the party. As for bad experiences turning you away from raiding: That's exactly why I've turned to organizing raids myself. It's a hassle sometimes but absolutely worth it!

[@JimKorse]

you feel there is this extra pressure? what, like, you're a man, using the moniker that you are female, to call yourself "woman"? you're not even a man, what makes you think you have any of MY EXPERIENCE????

[@eshbena]

As a 58 year old gaming woman, I could tell you some stories.... However, I want you to be able to sleep at night. Oh, and I am just as interested in games now as I was back in my 20's and got my kids into them too. So, you can have a family and still be a gamer gurl. XD I actually have a Lala main now because I got tired of the SA from other players. Now, I just get a lot of head pats. :)

[@TwiSteDCBloSsoM]

Ha that comment about as a 35+ woman I would be caring more about a family etc... ummm no... I just turned 35... still just work, home and games... and I love it that way.

[@alz397]

It’s so refreshing to see something like this lol As a 28yr old man. Ive always enjoyed being comfortable working, paying bills, come home, and game.

[@TwiSteDCBloSsoM]

@@alz397 I feel it's the best life.. I mean house chores solo still such but otherwise it's just me time how I want it.. want to play this game, cool. That one instead? Nice.. movie or anime night? No worries about what other people think or want to do.

[@JimKorse]

imagine, adult people, getting upset.......over video games....and then, being that they're "adults" they like to manipulate others.

[@princeofhalcyon]

Problems like this always lead to a lot of misdirected anger and group blaming. and when any loud toxic person or minority comes up, people lump everyone in with them, and suddenly its not about the people who did something wrong anymore, its the entirety of anyone related to them in any way (race, gender, religion etc), and that can become really frustrating to the people that also just want to live peacefully or even want to help. Bad apples 100% need to be thrown out, but done so in a way thet doesn't mix in the good ones, and sometimes i wonder if anyones capable of losing that ''us vs them'' mindset.

[@jamesw8698]

almost like its responding to toxicity, with *gasp* toxicity, which only makes people more resentful when they are on the recieving end of blame for something they had no part of

[@Wastingsometimehere]

I've seen the Twitter discourse she's talking about. It really did get that bad. Hopefully that doesn't reflect in game. This is still the least toxic community, but there are certainly those trying to invade.

[@NoBuddy89]

It's twitter. It's best ignored. People are completely out of touch with reality there.

[@JimKorse]

@@NoBuddy89 LOL like you're normal. youre on the internet still meine kampf

[@Tacyanic]

I would say that FF is more polite than other mmo's, but so much of it is fake. Personally I witnessed too many moments of "positive toxicity", where the very positive and polite would push for everyone to get along, even knowing that there had been malicious intent behind the situation. Much of this "positivity" I felt came from the fact that FF is viewed as a good community mmo and therefore we need to all be positive, and disregard serious issues. Like disregard obvious grooming of younger players by older ones. I also tried joining a FF discord that was advertised as "woman only" cause all of the friends I have are males, I just wanted a "free space" to talk about experience in the game and maybe get some female friends that also play the game... It took about 10 min to realize it was mostly men, reading the posts and chats it wasn't difficult to see. There were men openly saying they were men, and they were allowed to stay. It would be so nice to be a place where you could just not hear "typical woman", or the overly "protection" or "helpfulness", the type that leaves you with the very distinct feeling they want something in return, or they want to show their tiny cucumber in a dm. I removed myself from that server, and I hardly play FF anymore.

[@PetrolJunkie]

FFXIV is better than other games but it’s still a problem. The raiding scene has nothing on the club scene and RP community.

[@MsSjofn]

God, one of my friends briefly got into the club scene last expansion out of boredom, and quickly learned what a mistake THAT was. EVERYONE is too horny and harrass-y, it seemed like, regardless of gender and orientation.

[@grizzlybear6377]

​@@MsSjofn I was about to ask what was wrong with clubbing, and now I know the answer. That just scared me

[@ScionOfTheSeventhDawn]

​@@MsSjofnwhat... What is the "club scene"?

[@lunarbutterfly7]

@@ScionOfTheSeventhDawnRP Venues

[@Jake38nine]

@PetrolJunkie Women are just as creepy in the clubbing and RP scene. Creepiness and drama has no gender. That's why I treat everyone the exact same. Your gender doesn't make you special to me unless we're being intimate. Which means 99.99% of people's gender aren't special to me. This is how we should treat people. Exactly the same regardless of gender. The only time genders should be treated differently is in moments of privacy and consent. Otherwise, publicly, you're a human being and I will not treat you any differently.

[@pikachulovable]

I haven’t been targeted for being a woman on this game yet. I experience that type of stuff the most on gta online.

[@mugen1813]

Its GTA what do you expect?

[@pikachulovable]

@ idk I’ve been playing gta since I was 7. I never thought of it as a man’s game.

[@mugen1813]

@pikachulovable I mean, GTA is GTA. It's suppose to be offensive.

[@HildeTheOkayish]

I think part of it is that for some people they understand that Misogyny is bad behaviour but rather then trying to stop that behaviour they don't want the game they enjoy associated with it. so if someone comes forward as being a victim they will go in full defence mode and pretend it didn't happen and call out the victim as liar. because to them the accusation is almost worse then the act itself. which is of course nonsense but does explain why some people who you expected to be better about it will still attack the victim. they are against misogyny, and what they like can't contain misogyny, so therefore there wasn't misogyny. that is the thought pattern. its very disheartening to see happen

[@marthalentz]

I've been playing FFXIV for 10 years, doing dungeons, hopping into groups, and have NEVER had any bad experiences with people being nasty. Seriously... never... I'm female, play a female character, and die a lot! Ha! I guess I should feel blessed. I'm commenting this because I think it's good to hear from people who haven't had any nasty stuff happen to them, also.

[@BoopDeDoop]

I played WoW for 17 years. I'm female and I never had this happen and I've been a number of guilds. They were overwhelmingly male. We used Skype, Vent, Twitch and Discord, and I and my female friend never ran in to this issue, ever. They admittedly got really excited when they heard a woman speak for the first time - "it's a girl" - and then they'd get over it! Other than that, nothing. No really sleazy guys - there was one guy who was a bit, but he was despatched swiftly. We had a few immature young guys who were just gossip mongers, but that was the worst thing we had. The guys I met were the sweetest guys and I'm still in contact with some of them years later. I never heard them be sexist toward any female players. I'm new to FFXIV, so I can't talk about that yet.

[@xxsonata]

as a 37 year old woman i can confirm i still care about video games more than having a family. i had my uterus removed THATS HOW MUCH I DONT CARE. LOL that commenter is projecting what he wishes women cared about because he cant get a girlfriend. god forbid women have HOBBIES

[@BoopDeDoop]

That's tragic.

[@xxsonata]

@@BoopDeDoop it's not tragic that my only purpose isnt to just be an incubator. please use your brain

[@runo4155]

@@BoopDeDoopwhy would it be tragic? Not everyone wants children

[@katarh]

My raiding static has three women in it. The other members of our static have all been carefully vetted to NOT BE JERKS about the fact that three of us are women.

[@Cindersauruss]

I'll only ever join a static now with friends because of this and it's made me be way more careful myself about my jokes with people. I've had so many people on here just try to push me into ERP out of just a friendly conversation and others who will just be total creeps and follow me between worlds. Thankfully its still rare and my FC is incredible at looking out for eachother but the moments where I've been matching glams with friends for PF and we get someone talking to one of the girls saying "My, what a cute little thing you are" just for joining a M3S prog is... ew.

[@viysnjor4811]

how do you vet something like that?

[@grizzlybear6377]

What the heck is _"vetting"?_

[@Hawkbreath36]

Whenever I try out for a new group, I always make sure to ask for everyone's pronouns immediately. It's the perfect vibe check

[@shiro3146]

i guess this is why i hear many games comunity has that rules saying we were all have fun in games and please dont brings IRL stuff in game

[@mekey86]

You dont need to hide your sex to play raiding but you also dont need to announce it. But to play a game massively populated and online some people need to realize this and get a thicker skin. Is the bad stuff correct? No its awful - but we cant control people and need to expect toxicity online - its been that way the entire time and probably wont change so the best option is to focus on the self instead of changing people to the point what a stranger says online doesnt dictate your emotions. Dont give strangers that much power.

[@HalfpintHiro]

I'm sure it exists, but I don't think it's a problem. I've even joined groups with them thinking I was a girl because I didn't turn the mic on wanting to stay private. They just assumed. Also as someone who subs a lot, I find many groups have women. Even more than one. So... I really don't see this. As a raid leader since ARR and led multiple groups, there was never a question if we would want Men or Women in our group, we wanted players. We recruited based on the team's goals such as if it was casual or if we wanted to try hard. If we tried you out, and you seemed to lack confidence or didn't press your buttons, we'd probably pass if it was more hardcore. We might have too high expectations for you. If we were just doing a really casual group, we might care less about skill at all and just want to have fun. We've taken people that literally just started, and it was their first mmo. It really just depends on the group, I think. We did have a no drama policy, but it wasn't related to women, some people bicker and fight over the dumbest things like DPS, who gets what, and so on. As for loot, we explained upfront how the drops would be divided and why. Usually progression based because gear helps you clear. We also had an attendance policy as well. It was reasonable, but basically, if you agree to be there on X days at X time, we expect you there and not waste everyone's time. So if you say something like, I don't know how dependable I can be when trying out, yeah... we might skip you.

[@michael.wiegand]

Seems like there’s a pretty clear distinction between the game at-large and the end-game raiding communities when it comes to toxicity in general. My partner and I left the game in the early days (2015-ish) when a lot of these toxic dudes were yelling at people in leveling dungeons. It seems like most of these idiots have moved out of the core game and are strictly gate-keeping the raid scene. Makes me hesitant to engage with that content, TBH.

[@Quillla]

Thank you for speaking out on this hun. The best way to find solutions to problems like these is to first be aware of it, and reconize the behavior as an issue. Ty again for being apart of a solution. Might not come anything soon, but im sure its a start

[@MMOPC78]

A friend of mine recently returned to Crystal in the hopes of developing a RP character centered around Viper and being a student seeking "masters" of cobat, healing, and lore. So far: he's been alienated, rebuked, harassed, and finds himself playing FFXIV solo. While he hasn't goven up on playing in hopes of finding the "right" group of players to join: he went from being excited about playing to only playing FFXIV when he's bored in RL. Sad thing his: his experience has been far from friendly. Even visiting him on Crystal and seeing someone openly ridicule his outfit was unsettling to say the least. I am hoping things turn arpund for him soon.

[@Raeje_Draeka]

As a Crystal Player, we are not all like that. Some of us are actually nice. Tell your friend not to give up. I'm sure he will find the right group eventually. It took me a few years of bouncing around and picking the wrong servers, all on crystal, and the wrong groups, but now I have happily found the right home on Mateus with a very friendly FC. I will warn you that Crystal's RP scene is largely based on clubs/taverns/bard scenes but avoiding clubs and the brothels (Yes, unfortunately they do exist in game) is easy enough. Places will disclose if they are SFW or not. Because of this there are many player events and festivals. I'm actually a performer based on Crystal, so I perform at a lot of the fundraiser events and festivals myself. Anywayy, my point is, Crystal does have nice people. It is not totally devoid of creeps. I don't think anywhere in FFXIV is safe entirely from them, but if your friend truly wants to find RP, Crystal IS the best place. That's where all of the RPers are. If he's willing to keep trying, he will eventually get a home like I did after years of trial and error.

[@Pikaru-c4u]

I dnt believe this at all. No one is just openly making fun of people. I’m sure your friend is you, or some1 u made up and if they were being ailented,I’m sure they did some to cause that

[@MMOPC78]

@@Pikaru-c4u Um... Excuse me? First of all: I play on Sargatanas as my main and my alt on Dynamis. Secondly: just because YOU haven't personally seen or experienced something doesn't negate what stone else has. Thirdly, don't automatically assume that a comment posted is from the poster's POV: I'm sure you know what happened when one assumes something.

[@SamusKnight2K]

​@@Pikaru-c4u I have played FFXIV off and on since ARR launched and I can confirm I've seen some toxic people just speak aloud with no provocation whatsoever. Some people don't need a reason to just decide to be an a-hole.

[@Laurmachi]

“What did we ever do to you?!” “You were born!” Speaking as a male, it’s disheartening and disgusting what other people do for attention, for their own misguided biases, or just because they’re straight up hateful people. I can only imagine what life must be like for people who are, fundamentally, not very different and yet being shunned for that one nonsensical inconsistency. All I have to say to people who get their jollies by hurting and harassing people is just… be better.

[@MechromancerFTW]

Isn't that exactly what these woke activists do to men also? I mean I hear the white man is the most evil thing ever...I just exist here...and honestly I'm sick of sitting around and taking the white man is evil bullshit... There are evil people on both sides and I'm sick of only one side getting sympathy

[@TENthe10th]

From my experience: They're not hateful but repeat what they think gets them approval not caring if what they're doing is hateful. Surprisingly easy but also a hard solution: Call them out. If they stop getting approval and can expect to get backlash they often are almost comedically quick to backpedal and stop.

[@Xorua]

I know this isn’t related to the subject matter but that clip of the aetherial shift knockback cancel is incredible I could never do that under pressure

[@SherlockDaHolmie]

As much as I love ffxiv I've had a lot of bad experiences with FCs to the point where I just don't even join them anymore. Not sure if it's just Gilgamesh as a server or not. I'm not even female and even though I play a fem au ra and point out that I am a male frequently people still flirt with my character and say weird shit to me.

[@LynnDakota-t9u]

Nah man fcs can be trash on any server lol. I've been in bad ones on diabolos, malboro, couerl. I ended up just paying a couple randoms gil to help me make my own personal fc and let em leave so I could have fc perks with zero drama😅

[@MissBeloved__]

Yeah I joined a few fcs earlier this year and they were both shitshows. One had a super toxic leader who just shat on everyone, and one had a bunch of ppl dog pile on me one day cause I posted the name of a beast tribe quest..

[@furynvm]

I'm new to the game, MMORPG's as well to be specific and I am starting to realise what you mean.

[@jbee02]

I remember some sent a tell to me saying, "i hope this doesnt ckme of as creepy, but you are really pretty." Like, you im dude playing a female character. That was definitely creepy.

[@SweetSugarCrash_]

I am a WoW refugee who recently started playing FFXIV and the experiences I have had in 5/6 years worth of WoW still stop me from doing certain content, I hate doing dungeons with other people due to the abuse I received during my time in wow, I was only 14 when I started playing wow and I was going through a rough patch and found WoW as a breath of fresh air, and while it wasn't as toxic as it was before, I still received a lot of hate to the point where I wouldn't even talk in chat or mention anything about me being a girl. That's not to say that there weren't any nice people, I met a lot of lovely people unfortunately it was still dwarfed by people who were not so lovely. It was only in the last year of WoW that I started raiding and doing dungeons with guild members who I had known out of wow for a few years prior. they invited me to join their Realm and guild and were really lovely people, at the end of my time in WoW after I had completed everything I wanted and it's was just repeating the grind over and over again I decided to look back into FFXIV and decided to try it out with a friend who wanted to get back into FFXIV, I'm still nowhere near raid level, I'm only level 60 and I still haven't started the heavensward MSQ but I want to do raiding and enjoy it again as well as dungeons. Sorry, I didn't realise how long it was getting ^ ^

[@anydaynow01]

I hope when you do decide to tip your toe into FFXIV raiding you will be surrounded with a supportive group! I've been playing MMORPGs since Ultima Online and EQ, FFXI and FFXIV have been the bright spots!

[@SweetSugarCrash_]

@@anydaynow01 I hope so too, I've met some people who seem nice so I hope to raid with them and friendly and kind people like them ^^

[@mcpw2004]

That’s just my personal experience, but FFXIV dungeon experience was much better for me than WoW one. When I’ve played WoW back in 2017, even in the very early-game dungeons I’ve encountered a lot of people starting drama over some slight mistake or people playing not 100% optimally, not to mention how often half of the party would leave the moment a wipe would happen. In contrast, I’ve been playing FFXIV for 2 years and experienced pretty much zero drama or arguing when doing dungeons and raids with random people. So I definitely recommend you giving dungeons a try, as at least in my experience they were much more chill compared to WoW

[@SweetSugarCrash_]

@@mcpw2004 FFXIV has already been much more welcoming, I was genuinely surprised when people were accepting that it was my first time in a dungeon and they even gave me advice as a new healer, the only dungeons I have done so far are ones with my friend and I've only done a few but I am really hoping that for all the dungeons I queue for in the future, with or without my friend to be nice, welcoming and accepting as I always try my best to help people as that's what you should do and what is right imo.

[@natebroadus8474]

​@@SweetSugarCrash_I played WoW for 14 years and I was always nervous about telling people I was new to an encounter. I would be lucky if half the group stuck around.😅 14 has toxicity if you look for it, but most people just want to help you learn the game, so you might love it as much as they do.

[@jamierose9095]

I still have PTSD from my last savage and it's kept me out of raiding. Unfortunately jerkass behavior is not limited to men as it was a woman, a hardcore raider, who had me pushed out of the group. I'm a transgirl and I generally don't like to make a lot of noise about it, but I've been raiding in MMOs for a while now and I've run into my fair share of assholes. If you think WoW Burning Crusade was bad you should have seen Everquest. People in those days were just plain fucking awful. I literally got blackballed by an entire server by a couple of douchebags who spread my name around along with a bunch of fucking lies about me. It's hard for me to judge the misogyny angle because I haven't always identified as female, but I think I'm in a position to note that MMOs are chock full of assholes who seem to really get off on treating people like shit.

[@LordValzy]

You believe that someone beeing creepy on the internet, where you can just log out and are save at home, is PTSD? PTSD, the issue you get when you are in a real life sutation where friends of yours can be hit by something exploding and you can see them all around you in small pieces?

[@nyxisms]

@@LordValzy ptsd is more than just seeing war. where one person might be able to brush off a traumatic event, another may be scarred by it. the human brain works differently for everyone. next time, educate yourself before you talk about something you know nothing about. google is free. hope this helps

[@LordValzy]

@@nyxisms When you believe that it is the same as what i described it tells more about you then about your situation. I have played female chars in the past and guys attempted to flirt with me heck my voice can sound very close to female and guys have been flirting with me on the phone when unaware... not even remotely the same. You need help when you deluded yourself to such a degree. What it is is just weird, unpleasant and unneeded but nowhere near PTSD.

[@nyxisms]

@@LordValzy not once did i say it was the same. ptsd VARIES from person to person. you don't know what this person went through just by reading one comment. it isn't up to you to decide if they're "valid" enough to have been affected

[@jamierose9095]

@@LordValzy I've suffered a lifetime of physical and emotional abuse/bullying, so I do not use the term PTSD lightly. I understand that it's a huge problem for soldiers and I would not wish this sort of thing on anyone. I do not mean that this single incident is the cause but rather one of many incidences in my life which have caused me to suffer PTSD.

[@FishSkeleton-]

It sucks that people have to deal with idiots like this, but I guess there's always going to be people out there in every community who try to drag things down by making asses of themselves. All I can say is make real liberal use of the new blacklist features and ignore anyone who tries to bog down your experience, and report when things get properly bad, even if it sucks that you need to be the one to moderate your experience.

[@deepstonecostco]

As someone who has been in several MMOs for nearly 25 years, it sucks to see how much has changed and yet how little has. :\

[@sylverkat9488]

Same... when I played EQ I made a male character because the harassment I received as a female player was off the charts. It's gotten a lot better and FFXIV is the best, but I've still run into some creepers. 2 come to mind. They each started a conversation with me a different way, and always looking to make friends, I responded in a positive and helpful way. Over the course of the friendship I told each of them that I was an older woman and very happily married. It didn't matter. I ended up deleting my first character because one of them would send me private tells calling me "doll" or "sweetheart" no matter how many times I asked him not to, and unfriending him made no difference. The last thing I wanted was for my husband to walk over to my PC to give me a hug and a kiss and then see some other dude flirting with me in private tells. I agree with some of the other comments that it's a cultural issue. While it has vastly improved, there are still some people who will never take no as an answer.

[@orbmac]

Great of you speaking up about this! Also, congrats on the clear in PF! The 5:49 clip! Scary :D

[@grygaming5519]

I dont even think its a Misogyny issue. Its too easy to label it as such because gaming by in large is a male dominated space. Mostly because the nerds who were not accepted for their hobbies all decided to band together and this is even including female nerds to a degree. So as with anything getting popular you have tourists that often show up and insist upon the current dynamics of the culture. As in "conform to us and once you do we'll kick you out of your own space." This is far too common so when people start to actively gatekeep because they often get kicked out of their previous spaces where there was very little to no issues in them. You get friction and that's what we're currently seeing. Tourists who do not heed the phrase "when in Rome, do as the romans" but decided to take a page out of Johnny Samali's text book of acting the fool. To this you have these tourists who bring their social baggage into these spaces, meritocracy gets thrown out the widow. Instead its replaced by nepotism and forced equality. Eventually that degrades everything else so the reflex is to cast suspect on a person just due to pattern recognition. So is it misogyny...no...its people being assholes and it goes beyond gender, its just that well a woman in a male space will assume it is. As anything men are more up front with their insults while women are more passive aggressive if not out right toxic with theirs. Not acknowledging that both sexes can be horrible beings is being disingenuous at the core.

[@ernyoung8357]

The types of harrassment in this video does not go beyond gender though! It stops right at gender. Someone being an asshole towards women on the basis of being a woman is misogeny. There's no need to try and sidestep that term when its appropriate. And I don't think this video is disingenuous either. The point of this video is to highlight the problems that a minority of the playerbase is facing. Foregoing the fact that gender/sex bias goes both ways and that misandry also exists does not mean she believes its not real. Its just not the focus of this video.

[@grygaming5519]

@@ernyoung8357 That's the core issue, its just too easy to slap a label. People just choose to actively be assholes and the anomality of the internet has made it far too easy for people to be assholes. To a point I'll agree what was said was misogynistic but I guess as being a man...i just see it as asshole behavior regardless of gender. Asshole behavior should be called out more then just slapping a label.

[@kimabrams97]

Claiming that women aren’t victims of misogyny in gaming spaces is disingenuous. Sorry you feel insecure enough to post this.

[@elitadraconia]

It's sad seeing the terrible treatment that other women within the community have experienced. I've been lucky enough to find myself amongst lovely friends who simply see me as a good friend on ffxiv just as equal in ability to the rest of our group. We respect and accept each other & that's one of the things I love about them all. To those women in a bad crowd (or anyone who feels discomfort in an ongoing situation), I hope you find the courage to get out of it & find people that deserve your efforts & respect you as you are. There are many lovely people out there, just blacklist the bad ones and try to find the ones you can feel safe with.

[@BreeAsryles]

This is actually the 2nd tier of raiding I completed this game, the last one i was alongside a friend of mine, victim of someone who was a misogynist who almost turned me off of trying savage raiding. He also managed to get a community I was a part off on their side because he was a "Good Player". I am a little scared to try the ultimate due to this. While there are some bad actors in this game, a lot of the problem comes from people that defend this behavior because the people doing it are "good players"

[@DanielSnyder-w3c]

Personal things just shouldn't be shared in gaming as a rule. Gaming is a disconnect of the world of validation, affirmation and stress in daily life. If people are non stop looking for attention it is very annoying. I don't condone harassment of any kind. People will avoid it best by following the rule mentioned above. Woman or man just game in peace. Address the harassment in the moment quickly and move on. That is all there is to it.

[@pitmanfirst2165]

I am not a woman, but have FF14 friends that are IRL women (found out in FC or raid voice chat) and I also were part of several savage raid groups that have women in them and luckily I havent noticed anyone being treated any differently. So at least in my experience FF community is still one of the really good ones, even though I am sure there are few toxic dumb people like in every community.

[@BoopDeDoop]

I played WoW for 17 years. I'm female and I never had this happen and I've been a number of guilds. They were overwhelmingly male. We used Skype, Vent, Twitch and Discord, and I and my female friend never ran in to this issue, ever. They admittedly got really excited when they heard a woman speak for the first time - "it's a girl" - and then they'd get over it! Other than that, nothing. No really sleazy guys - there was one guy who was a bit, but he was despatched swiftly. We had a few immature young guys who were just gossip mongers, but that was the worst thing we had. The guys I met were the sweetest and I'm still in contact with some of them years later. I never heard them be sexist toward any female players. I'm new to FFXIV, so I can't talk about that yet.

[@coloradostatesenatorsteven7443]

Modern bs

[@Maldunn]

I’m a guy and I’m intimidated when I think about getting into raiding and I don’t even have to worry about this kind of prejudice. We’re all humans just playing a game together for fun, why can’t we appreciate that? Also just want to say that lala Avy is absolutely adorable!

[@MellowFungus]

Pansy, you'd get eaten alive in an Xbox live COD lobby from 2008

[@gobagem6132]

​@@MellowFungustoday's people are incredibly weak

[@keiken96]

1st advice, If you are going to join a serious raid group, then level up your Shit talk skill to atleast level 4.

[@Strider_Shinryu]

Not really much to add myself other than to say thanks for making the video and talking about it! It's nice to see an actual discussion about the topic instead of just the usual drama baiting and finger pointing. Not that the bad actors shouldn't be identified, but doing so makes it all about them (and gives them even more attention) instead of actually treating the problem as something bigger than just a thing one or two people are doing

[@missleiadragonitemaster7597]

As a lady who also plays XIV… I’ve honestly had more toxic interactions with the ladies than the dudes overall. Not to say I haven’t had toxic interactions with the fellas, one of my first instances was a guy. Issue is that, from what I’ve experienced, the guys are more confident in being open about their biases. The ladies though? They sink their teeth into you first. This isn’t helped by how I’ve seen XIV relationships tend to end, both in romance and friendships. The point about guys not wanting girl raiders in case it causes relationship drama is a very believable (and used) method not because the guy thinks that, but because their partner does. ‘Why’d you let her into the static?’, I imagine, is an often heard phrase there. And let’s not kid ourselves: having full statics of one gender doesn’t solve anything either. Eventually someone will get too sweaty and say something cruel, or someone will let the mask slip and show who they really are. That said, I’ve been hesitant to try on-content EXes or join a static for that kinda drama llama reason among other things. I agree that it’s definitely an issue (as well as toxic positivity, because you can’t be critical of a game you enjoy when it does something that’s detrimental to its health nowadays w/o the slurs and branding of things you aren’t..), I’m a bit contentious about saying it’s JUST the guys doing it, especially in high end raids where emotions run higher than a kite on a windy day.

[@WhtCrstlJudgmntDrgn]

I do agree about that female point. Vicious. But I think it's only because of what happened a few years ago, and interactions and trust, be it online or in person between the sexes has been heavily damaged, if not nigh unrepairable.

[@missleiadragonitemaster7597]

@@WhtCrstlJudgmntDrgn I kinda agree.. though only kinda. That’s mainly due to the ‘only because of what happened a few years ago’ part. No. People have always been like this. It’s just we see it now more than ever because folks have become too comfy being jerks behind a screen and not facing meaningful consequences for their actions. Keyword: meaningful. Moderation suspensions for ToS infractions and such. Then again I’m not sure how bad it is in other servers. I’m only speaking for NA, and it’s entirely possible that this issue is, at least primarily, an NA server issue (by which I mean it’s a more noticeable problem on NA servers, not that it only happens on NA)

[@WhtCrstlJudgmntDrgn]

@missleiadragonitemaster7597 I can see where you're coming from as a whole. I just hope you get to experience all of what the game has to offer, still. Indeed, people have become too comfortable with being rude and harsh and think it's okay because there's no tangeible consequences... yet. I 100% agree there. This isn't an NA-only problem. But this swings both ways, as you've pointed out.

[@missleiadragonitemaster7597]

@@WhtCrstlJudgmntDrgn I will in time! I recently got all the SHB EX mounts, so the plan is to slowly work towards the EW ones next. I just move at a different pace and tend to prioritize casual/ semi casual over hardcore content. Part of the problem is finding a static that can both work with my disabilities and can allow practice runs and some room for error. For many, I’d understandably be more a burden than an asset. I don’t blame the game for this at all, it’s the consequence of having more competitive aspects. It’s an inevitability. However that does not mean that it shouldn’t be curbed or discussed civilly. Again though, issue is players.. and not everyone is civil about competition ^^’

[@MidnightEkaki]

Sounds like a self report why you wanna throw other women under the bus, its pretty clear the behaviour of dudes are the main issue female players are talking about. But anyway

[@wolfethorne6446]

I don’t really come across misogyny while in ffxiv playing a male or female character, but I tend to shy away from high end raiding. That’s not to say I don’t think it’s happening. I’m just not sure how to help the situation, other than to “try not to be a part of the problem”. I try to cultivate a sense of cooperation and fun whenever I do group content without digging into anyone’s background and being helpful wherever possible. As a guy, I have no idea if this is the right thing to do to make everyone feel welcome, or if there’s something else I should be doing.

[@gobagem6132]

Just don't be a duck. And drop the "as a guy" thing... Everyone is entitled to their opinion and methodology, you don't need to look to others to critique what you're doing and say "please ladies, am I doing enough?" Because at the end of the day, it's on them. It's their problem. They are the ones that can't handle some words......

[@halosaft]

​@@gobagem6132 If it's an issue about women, why shouldn't you say "as a guy"? Just like it's an issue about mens experience, if a woman want to chime in about how they experience it they should qualify it with "as a woman".

[@gobagem6132]

@@halosaft because it's irrelevant. Politicians have got y'all so fucking twisted you think you need to start off with an admonishment of self to have a damn conversation!

[@gobagem6132]

@@halosaft I'm a white guy and I can talk about whatever damn issues I want without having to preface it with "I'm a white guy" Unless I'm explaining why it's asinine, like right here!

[@halosaft]

@@gobagem6132 It sounds more like you have become really twisted by politics, that you even bring up politics here is a sign of that... You preface it *because* it is relevant. If people who bike every day are complaining about bad bike roads, people who want to chime in that have never biked in their lives should preface that they don't bike. How is this even political? It's just the basics of conversation.

[@marohutokimune1582]

That one couple in an FC that says its "just an RP relationship" but treat it real among peers and themselves when one or both are already married to someone else so it ends up being cringe when they have a "break up fight" or "jealous" with eachother.

[@Pikaru-c4u]

This is all too common

[@estelleandersson4004]

Not FF14, but my friend used to be in a Polish guild in SWTOR. He's a guy who used to play healer, but according to the leadership of his guild healer was the only role women was allowed to do, because they were apparently too dumb and not skilled enough to play tank or DPS. I've met so many skilled female tanks and DPS both in SWTOR and in FF14, the women should only heal stereotype is so old and dated. They can do any role they want.

[@jbee02]

That's weird. i have always thought healer and tanks to be the difficult jobs while dps are the east classes

[@WGSXFrank]

My main is a female character. I've received a few disgusting, distasteful, and downright sexist DMs over the last couple years just hanging around limsa or doing PF. You know the crazy thing? I greatly enjoy the venue scene. I even manage a (non-erp) venue. While I've gotten flirty messages there, I've *only once* gotten a DM that came across as disgusting. That was also the only person who wouldnt take "no" for an answer. Instant black-list and banishment from the venue (after i informed the manager of that venue). I have a decently large personal blacklist. And nearly all of them are randos (vith men and women) who started with me thinking I was a woman in either casual or end game content. The vile DMs and honestly rapey demands ive seen. Yuck. No, i dont care if youre weiner is the size of a Monster can. No, i dont care if you RP as vampire dommy mommy. Respect others, or gtfo I will say, though, it is FAR less common than what I experienced in WoW over the years. Even as recently as Dragonflight.

[@hexerin]

/blacklist [charactername] Then move on. Welcome to being an adult.

[@Denariusjay]

While I agree, it should be noted though that the people that treat women like this also generally treat men this way as well. They are just toxic people in general, on both sides btw. Its one of the reasons I stopped doing high end content in any MMOs many years ago because the toxicity that environment breeds just isn't it for me. But I do understand that its also a small minority of players that are like that. I don't like the gender war stuff and I feel like its abit divisive.

[@gobagem6132]

Yeah, we already have a culture war to fight with people that don't know what a woman is

[@DukeVesperia]

I really enjoy FF14. Gaming and talking about it with my friends has meant a lot for me in these last few years. It’s hard to watch and find out about all the stuff happening behind the scenes. I think it’s hard to not have any drama because people play the game, so it’ll be there. I’m okay with having the few people I know, had enough drama and don’t need any more XD

[@g4b354]

@AvyCatte It's really inspiring to watch your cutesy casual content and then the next day parse purples with you in M2S. I think the best players in this game are ones like you that serve as a bridge between the two worlds of casual and hardcore that many think are separated forever. I'm really glad you've been able to transcend many of the issues you've mentioned and not just get into but dominate in Savage! Can't wait for the raiding video!

[@TakaChan569]

You can find toxic people in every mmo, and no matter the gender,race, place of origin ect some just act like idiots because it's the internet and nobody has a monopoly on being the "bad guy".

[@JimKorse]

sorry, but according hardened criminals, they use YOUR TACTICS of getting rid of people. interesting no?

[@corye_ex]

Highly opinionated video full of projection. Classic.

[@xenorayy]

I've been playing this game for about a year and a half now and as a woman I've never had any first hand experience with any creeps. Maybe that's because I've mostly done my raiding through pf and have only been in a couple statics, both of which had chill people. I do plan to do more content through static groups moving forward, but I hope I never come across any weirdos.

[@gravityzer000]

I understand totally where you're coming from, I started Ffxiv back in March of this year and played with my male Hyur who is meant to be me in real life however after I finished the stories of every exp I decided I gonna play the game again but with a female character and within 10 minutes I had people dm me or follow me around when I was grinding and farming resources. It made me feel uneasy.

[@JuujikaNeon]

I’m a man and I understand how you feel because I went into ffxiv pretending to be a girl. Good god! I feel your pain! I just wanna play the game not fucking flirt with weird dudes everyday!

[@CommanderCarbie]

This is absolutely why I don't hardcore raid either despite my friends begging me to join. HW broke me long ago and my old WoW raiding days also did not help that fact. Hell, I put my foot down on some misogynous raiders in my FC and they all abandoned after I threatened them with the ban hammer...and worse was the girl I was trying to stand up for begged me not to do it because they were "playing"... My sister in Hydaelyn, that was not playful banter I heard every week in VC.

[@mekookami]

Whats really crazy is my only experience with a toxic player in this game: it was a girl. To be fair she was doing it to another girl, so i guess it checks out.

[@ajp1282]

This happened a lot when I used to play GTAV Online. I ran with co-ed groups with a lot of behind-the-scenes drama between the members. I tried to remain neutral between the pettiness, but that only made me the sounding board among the members so I was constantly bombarded with gossip. Of course, one was a younger girl who got hit on by most of the guys in the group via DMs and it got to the point where she left and I only found out cuz she messaged me afterward thanking me for being "chill" with her. This is likely why I run solo in FFXIV...however, I understand this plight and, even though I'm not the target demographic, I sympathize with gamers who get cyber-bullied. Reach out, tell a friend, and make a friend 😊

[@ElZamo92]

I personally have not had an experience like that. In my first static we had 5 women and three men. That static was disbanded because we were all TERRIBLE XD. My second static’s leader was a very bubbly girl, but she’s like SUPER good and knew all the mechanics. Also, my FC leader is a woman she’s like super chill, but her boyfriend has anger issues (love him to death anyway tho, and no not on that way)… maybe I’m in a sort of positivity bubble in terms of misogyny?

[@zillahstar]

Ngl when i started playing what you said was true. Everyone was so nice. As the community grows more toxic players have been added. Even earlier today on reddit a new player was asking for help. Everyone basically called them an idiot and anyone that tried to help was downvoted. The decline has been real ever since the great wow exodus

[@loomingdeath1758]

Honestly speaking everything shes talking about Lucky to never seen. About the most wildest thing I seen. Is some in savage telling me to unistall only to be the one who ended up making mistakes and rage quitting. That a reclear drama on M2s.

[@Mustbe_Lusty]

This hits to close to home, I myself have meet A LOT of creeps that take rejection really bad. from "I'm not like the others" to full on cray cray to the point of blacklisting and they would make alts just to continue to harass (Before the 7.0 blacklist system) So much reports have been made sadly.. too much sadly, More then I should have needed to be honest. But luckily its a small bunce in the grand /scheme of things. The good people out way the bad ♥I'm really glad you have have brought this up, Its good to know that its just not me expiring this. So thank you for coming forward and speaking out about this.

[@Pikaru-c4u]

This sounds like my story. I had friend named Cersei Lannister who made a million Alts to harass me and my fc until the blacklist feature came out. I think they still do sometimes. I now only really like playing with irl friends

[@bendonatier]

FFXIV is a very feminine space to me. There are plenty of female content creators compared to some other game communities, whenever I join a "discord available" prog pf, almost without fail the person doing the shot calling is a very affable woman, who's just happy to organize, and so many friends I've made in this game have been women. I think it's wonderful that compared to so many other communities I've been in, xiv is largely co-ed, with a strong female player base, not because I'm a creep happy to have more targets, but because that diversity of thought helps keep things healthy. I'm glad it's a space my wife feels comfortable being in, and inviting her friends into. My best friend's wife is my co-healer and I wouldn't have cleared the current savage tier without her help. It's not perfect, and I've seen that first hand, since my WoL is a girl, but it is thankfully on the rarer side. Part of what keeps 14's community great is it's diversity of players. We really should try to protect that and care for our fellow warriors of light, or at the very least believe them when they have the courage to speak out.

[@lhie2645]

I started playing FFXIV with a guy friend wanting to have some fun together but he turned out to be really misogynistic and started to make weird comments about my character quite often. He started behaving like this after knowing each other for like 6 years, truly a bad surprise

[@Exiler652]

The biggest problem that people don't realize, is that FF14 is a game for EVERYONE. That includes toxic players. There are those that are toxic behind the scenes (discord or in static raid groups). The best advice as a raider that I can give, is to find a group that you like. Don't go to one group and stick with it whilst suffering in silence. That will give you raiding PTSD. Another piece of advice is to don't just join any group willingly. You need to trial them just like they will trial you. Lastly, any static group that has 1 person that doesn't gel with the group, can cause the group to fail. I have been the cause to a few statics discomfort myself and it was because I did not feel alright with the group and wanted them to change for me. This is wrong. If you cannot fit in, then be humble and move on. If everyone followed this experience I have, there wouldn't be content video's like this. BTW Thank you for the video AvyCatte, love your content as always!

[@Lyn-uh2mb]

In every multyplayer game you will find all kinds of people.. it's up to you to decide who you keep or turn away

[@LightTheBlackMage]

It's all fair and good to point out stuff like this, but while we're on that point, let's not pretend that misandry doesn't happen at all in this game. As a man (with female friends in game), I've come across many toxic and sexist women and heard just as many stories; some from the raiding scene and others from RP venues. People are always quick to point out the creeps and weirdo men in anything but never say a word that women can be just as disgusting. If you're going to talk about the problem, talk about it as a whole, not just painting one side as the victim. Is it more likely to happen to women? One can say yes, but the majority does not make up the entirety.

[@laurakane2252]

There are jerks everywhere, you cannot escape until you stop hanging your ability to exist on their behavior. The moment people start throwing misogyny around and bashing a game, is the moment I see people trying to control and change and destroy a game I've played for years. I promise, the day they take away our sexy outfits and go woke, is the day FFXIV will end because most of its players will stop and the one that caused it wont give a rats.

[@Keeby.]

"ff14 will die bc no sexy outfits" is the most degen thing i heard all day but also no one is trying to take away "sexy outfits"

[@kobiblade]

Seems like a skill issue, never had anyone slide into my dms or being a creep and I play this game since day one, is all about your own behaviour, you enable them.

[@dadkwashere]

FFXIV is not some happy everyone is nice game. Unless you stick to story and afk at the aetheryte The further you go down the rabbit hole the more you'll see its just like any other game- CoD, WoW, DOTA, Overwatch...FF isn't anything special in the people department. If anything, its more superficial because there are mods who will suspend you if you act out of line. The amount of times somebody wants to say something but can't is more often than people thing. Some dont care and will say it anyway,calling someone restarted, a deragstory sexist or race joke, or even performance wise like damage ormech knowledge.

[@TheExcessus]

Is this some NA thing? On EU I've never been in a static without a woman, and I have never heard anyone acting like the way that is described. I'm leveling an alt on NA right now and I can notice an actual difference in how people treat each other compared to EU...

[@kellevichy]

It's absolutely an NA thing. I never encountered this kind of behavior in OCE and JP communities but in NA? All the time.

[@mcpw2004]

I can’t talk about statics, but my two years of duty finder and party finder on EU was pretty much toxicity-free, while people I know who play on NA seem to experience more toxic behaviour

[@kohlicoide2258]

Im playing on EU and _every_ Static that i joined (for multiple savage, or just to clear a Ultimate) has atleast 1-2 womans and there was no problems (every Problem was more "You dont play good enough!" Etc so the average Gamer Toxicity) at all. Maybe im just extrem lucky

[@jimjab3631]

Misogyny is the wrong word and perhaps click bait. Playing ff for many years it's headed toward a wow style and attracting wow players which are toxic. Most Importantly this IS life, you need to learn to ve strong and brush things off. Your irrational to think everything is unicorns and daisies. It would be nice to go back to a civil society where everyone appreciated each other and respected each other in a polite society. Clearly it started in 2008 and beyond. It's 2024 and normalcy will improve but we as people are doomed eventually just lime the Bible says. Stick with a fc of older folks and you will be fine, the younger you are the more toxic you are

[@Logos6]

Wait, so ff14 is not a dating simulator? Why we play it then?

[@julso.9763]

To me the worst is assuming girls are meant to be Healers/supports (WHM n' DNC) mostly. I've always been a melee, playing a male human rogue (WoW since classic), or mostly male characters in generals. Yet everyone loves my only one girl, the mage. In FFXIV I still prefer melee, parsing (or trying to). I just wish people stopped thinking girl = female character in a dress.

[@tyrokyu]

Me saying this doesn't change anything and I know it but, I'm sorry that those things happen/happened, I'm truly saddened to hear that one of my favorite games has such an attitude

[@FalkRaegos]

As a high-end raider myself, i can actually confirm and vouch for the women I've raided with, they're all incredible individuals that i'd raid with again or even recommend to other statics.

[@zydeox1221]

2:25 Imma be honest, this is a completely valid opinion to have. Women entitle themselves to make women only communities everywhere on the internet because of this or that, I think it's perfectly fine too then for dudes to exclude women out of groups if they do wish to do that regardless of the reason, any group should have the criteria they want as long as they are not hurting anyone in any way shape or form. With that said, the issues you are describing are not only woman related nor ffxiv only related. It's a human problem that will happen in any community you decide to join and settle in. It's going to specially happen in a male dominated space such as gaming. I'm not downplaying it, I just kinda don't like how you frame this as if women are being the only victims. If I go to a female dominated space I will have a lot more difficulties socializing too. It just is what it is.

[@Ascendant-1]

women have trouble making women only spaces because trans people label them transphobic if they don't let them in. Just look at the olympics.

[@Hallumi]

YES! I have only gotten into raiding this year after meeting someone who became very special to me. I've been playing since 2015 and used to be so scared of raiding because of things people would say to me in chat whenever I would try and some guys I "knew" continuously telling me that I'll never be good enough at the game to do it. And here I am now, surrounded by amazing pro-raiders who have helped me MINE everything and we are up to Endwalker :3

[@alejanarrentanz698]

i am sry for you if you had bad expierence in your raid. But this Video sounds to me like modern fem bullshit. Sry. Normally i like your videos. And i hope every women who is facing this kind of expierence take use of the ticket funktion! But making this video plays right in the modern women victim trend. As a women i never face such behave in raids or in general in this game. Not even if i got invited to the voice. And to label Raids as "Male Dominat Space" is also big big BS. I never NEVER faced a raid group with only males. Not once. And i play since HW. A lot of women take revenge by claiming such things. And THAT is a tragedy!

[@gmb3682]

After 7 years of playing the game, I can honestly say that there are no "friends" to be made in this game. Even those I thought were my friends and opening up to them about very sensitive stuff, they just dismissed me and distanced themselves further from me. Don't grow attached to anyone in this game. Believe me, it will save you so much trouble down the road. At the end of the day, it's the internet.

[@Parzival0117]

Yea if they can’t get anything from you they don’t want you around. Had that experience plenty

[@maartje176]

As someone who was scared of partyfinder when I started I’ve made great strides into being comfortable with doing on content EX and doing the new savage raid tier with fc people. Next to that I’ve been doing criterion with three friends which has been a lot of fun as there’s nothing as satisfying as finally killing a boss after three hours of getting wiped I hope everyone who is interested in raiding and hard content gets a chance to do so ❤

[@dusknerd_]

Generally I avoid high-tier raiding like the plague, because besides being way beyond my ken gameplay-wise, I know damn well there's some MEAN suckas in that scene that will chew up and spit out folks of all sexes. To know that it's especially bad for women there is even more sad.

[@Hedspaces]

When i first got into FF14, i was one of the tanks that always kept moving, and unfortunately i was playing on an EU datacenter, so i got alot of racist, Sexist Comments thrown at me. and despite moving to the NA datacenter's i still have times where i'll visit an RP venue, find a creep and get stalked in game... it's a big reason why I'm so scared to do trials or any other content by myself, im scared of being alone, because when im by myself and i have a bunch of hate getting thrown at me, i have a habit to just turn off my PC... and now it's gotten to the point where i get flak for simply playing DRK... i just wanna be a cool Fem-Roe and sit in my house... i've been putting off doing the last dawntrail trial because of it...

[@pudding-c5i]

It’s just people being a 💩. I’ve met both men and women that were creepy and crazy. Got bullied in game mostly by other girls because I’m a Lalafell race… But we can only black list and move on with our day. 😊

[@jamesw8698]

but.. we throw the potato off the ledge for bonus mount drop chance, yes yes? lol

[@deathwalker1548]

I had no idea FF XIV had a misogynist side, I mean of course there's bound to be some but to be such a thing that it was enough to make a video about? Genuinely surprised me though im still in the smaller raids in SB so I prob havent seen the high level ones which is prob where it is XD

[@GMSwagganaut]

Outside looking in, why is it that there are not a lot of women only endgame spaces? I feel like this would do a lot to remedy the issue at hand, since changing people over the Internet is like pulling teeth. I say this as someone who lives in predominantly black spaces in online games, and did so out of fatigue with racism.

[@NuchiAsaki]

A lot of women just aren't interested in doing that kind of content. I have no interest in it, myself.

[@mollymillions6586]

Because of the misogyny. Why would anyone want to go where they're made to feel like they're not wanted?

[@omensoffate]

@@mollymillions6586you talk like it’s everywhere 😂. The extreme cases always echo the loudest

[@SweetSugarCrash_]

Well I would love to be grinding out endgame raiding, unfortunately I've been told too many times that I'm never good enough and that dug deep and made me believe that I am really not good enough to do anything, keeping me away from all of this content. unfortunately that same is also the same for some other women I know, that's not saying there aren't any Women only groups, they just tend to stay quite and dont really boast online.

[@viysnjor4811]

It's hard enough getting a static together as is, cutting out 60-70% of the playerbase to try and form an all female group is going to be even more difficult. And that's also not considering things like optics, like if you as a woman see a party in PF advertising something like "women only" and "VC confirmation required" are you going to A) think its legit or B) think its a bunch of weird guys trying to creep on girls? Personally I'd assume it's the latter and just move on

[@GabeAtWork]

Now let's talk about Lalafell racism.

[@willystateify]

Soup time

[@gothicshark]

I started out playing male characters to hide who I am from others. The Male Gnome Warlock in 2005 turns out not a male IRL. :P

[@inmoraa7613]

Sorry, but I have been in some games were female players have way outdone the males playing, being a male myself I have no problems of female raiders, we are players, we are here for fun, and if someone has problems with that, it wont be the first time I have left a raid or what ever cause of stupid comments. I have respect for my fellow players, be a woman or a man. Who the hell cares, let us have fun!

[@loganagain4942]

I feel like talking about this does more harm than good. It’s such a minor part of the community that no matter what isn’t gonna go away and I feel like spreading info like this will only create unnecessary fear for unknowing people who want to get into raiding or other activities but now are afraid of running into these kinda people when in reality it’s quite unlikely based off my experiences.

[@ShinParisu]

I was running a Stone Vigil hard just yesterday and was a fill in since someone must have clearly left. I do enjoy helping, I am a mentor and love helping new players, I figured they were having trouble with the Cuca Fera as thatgs where i joined in mid dungeon, so as we were doing the fight I was trying to explain the fight to a clearly new healer (so new they got their mapping the realm achievement at the end) as I did some ass told me I was "Mansplaining" like I dunno if he was simping for this healer or just wanted to be an idiot (This dude was a male Roegadyn so I dont for a single second think they themselves were female and yet they call another player for "Mansplaining") to be honest I had never met anyone with such a shitty attitude towards me, using a gender targeting insult and then at the end after clearing he said "Sorry if I hurt your feelings" that person got blacklisted as soon as I left that dungeon and I hope I will never meet them again.

[@redjoker365]

I believe mansplaining is a very real phenomenon, but also people are really quick to use it on neurodivergent men hyperfixating on a topic, so it just winds up becoming an ableist cudgel

[@mareb324]

Not the Black Cat wipe😂😂😂 I completely forgot about that, thank you for reminding me Avy 😂

[@javieracosta401]

On the other hand there is misandry in the game, they use these bad guys as excuse to insult other male players, all genders can be good or bad

[@thecrowonyourshoulder]

Not only that, some sisters I have met are just controlling and jealous types. "a other girl has enter the static?! I am no longer getting all of the attention!". The passive aggressive behavior sinks in deep, and its a whole other level of toxic.

[@Chaya_Ashclaw]

i was for short moment like: "serious? ff14 definitly has people that are evil and what ever" i doesnt matter where, if you stick a bunch of random people in the room there will be always one if a that trait more dominant, ff14 is no heaven. but those are the mineority, some meet them more then others, some meet never those.

[@hooviridis8388]

Honestly, it feels like I'm back in high school again with this game, except I'm even more mentally unstable than I was when I was in high school. I've been too intimidated to really do any challenging content with others (so much so that my first deep dungeon clear ended up being a solo one, although that also was me being a total tryhard), due to potentially facing hostility, and also becoming hostile myself (which is usually conveyed in words that have no intent). Thankfully I haven't caught any flack for being a trans girl, but I feel like I've caught more for being autistic and socially awkward. Since being stabbed in the back by a static I was progging UWU with, I cannot really trust anyone in FFXIV anymore, and it's impacted my ability to interact with others greatly. Those leaders were women as well, but they were more of the petty type, the ones you don't usually see past high school or college.

[@kita6502]

As someone whose met my share of toxic and amazing people ive come to the conclusion that its not just a women thing but a people thing. As a woman you will see people trying to slide in dms, trying to get with you , not take rejection well or not take you seriously as a player at all but the stuff i seen men get has been just as bad with just toxic elitism behavior, putting down other people and even going into racism and homophobia. Men are more likely to get yelled at and called the worse shit, not having anyone care about their feelings But as a women sometimes you wonder if someone is nice to you because they genuinely want to be your friend or are they nice to you because they just want to get with you. For years ive dealt with someone using me making me feel like im special just so i would give them attention when in fact they were going behind my back with literally every women in the group. People are just slimy in but im also just sick of people acting like its only just misogyny. I think the issue goes deeper than that

[@timalice-2833]

I hear you about raiding. I’ve had issues with people being so impatient and harsh with savage raids. Because of that I don’t do savage anymore. It’s just not worth dealing with the people who act like a piece of their soul dies with each wipe.

[@keiken96]

I'm not a pro rider by any means. But as a guy and a gamer, I've joined many groups in different games and spent time doing ranking stuff and I can say that its not that all of us are toxic. When you start a prog for even half a day, depending on how it goes, the group's mood can go from "Haha, suck my balls" to "I will obliterate your whole bloodline". The longer a prog goes and more mistakes happen, it becomes more likely that someone will blow off their fuse. In men circles, it happens quite often. Most of the time we just scream at each other, and by the next game we will be laughing with each other. Ofc I'm not saying that you should just deal with it. But from my experiences, whenever a woman has joined our groups we either don't cuss too much or if we do the woman gets uncomfortable and leaves messing up the strats or numbers. I've even seen a girl from a group cry when no one was even yelling at her. I won't say tolerate it. I even encourage you to participate. You don't necessarily need to cuss but just strongly voice your opinions. If you spend a little time in such groups you'll generally understand when someone is just blowing off steam and when someone is just actually toxic. From what I've seen most of the times, the toxicity people mention usually turns out to be random shit talk amongst players. There are also legit toxic people as well but they're more easy to recognize. Ultimately what I'm saying is that its not that most raiding groups are toxic. They just shit talk to cool down and de stress. If toxic people do join the group, you can very easily recognize them. So, relax, grow a little backbone and join the raiding experience by finding or forming a group which you can click with cuz that's the key for cooperation. P.S: I'm can't really talk about the people hitting on girl part cuz most of the girls that I play with are either friends or my friend's partners. So there haven't been any of these scandals in my groups. Tho I can see it happening cuz most of us are horndogs.

[@ScottAdams14]

In my opinion, part of the issue with the FFXIV community is that we are told all the time about how nice and welcoming we are, so we become blind to the areas in which we can improve. We need to stop this nonsense and start bringing our issues to the forefront so that they can be addressed by the community, and we need to be a little harsh in how we handle those with sexist, racist, and/or anti-LGBTQ attitudes by kicking them out of raid groups, linkshells, and FCs. Let those who deserve the community progress to a higher tier, and let the crap fall through the cracks.

[@johnwayne4911]

or you can get a clue and realize that there is no "community".. just a collection of individuals who are consumers of video games like anyone the fuck else on the internet. the way you are talking you might as well just wear a Nazi armband to identify everyone in your little club.

[@gobagem6132]

The Internet is not your safe space

[@heartscaless]

​@@gobagem6132"The internet is not your safe space" oh fuck off, bigotry and harassment literally violates ToS and people are perfectly entitled to separate themselves from others that make them uncomfortable.

[@gamingman4275]

@@gobagem6132 Nor is it yours bud. If you can't handle being called out, maybe stop talking?

[@gobagem6132]

@@gamingman4275 what the fuck are you even talking about, crackhead?🤨

[@Erick726]

To be perfectly honest you never know how a woman will react until you shoot your shot. A ton of women I've met are downright slutty and love male attention. To all the guys out there don't be afraid to slide into a woman's DMs. Fortune favors the bold. However If you try to flirt and they say they're not interested be kind and accept it w/o being butt hurt. Take this video with a grain of salt. There's nothing wrong with men mingling with women and testing the waters but be respectful if they decline. -- My message to the woman who made this video human beings are sexual creatures. It's a natural thing and it's unrealistic to expect men to treat women with zero sexual interest. Respectfully of course.