Awakening to the True Nature of Reality

In the latest Rupert Spira Podcast episode, Rupert and Lucas Perry from The Mu Podcast explore the true nature of reality.
They discuss whether science could use non-dual principles as guidance for creations such as AI, the differences between the progressive path and the direct path as well as the different stages of awakening. Their conversation also covers the moral implications of the non-dual understanding, and what would be required for world peace.
You can follow Lucas Perry here:
▸ Mu Podcast: @mu3183
Or on his KZbin Channel:
▸ / @mu3183
Timestamps:
0:00 What Is Suffering?
3:15 Freedom From Suffering
6:44 Neti Neti
15:58 Awareness Is Always Present
27:38 How To Do Self-Inquiry
44:22 Can Changes To The Brain Affect Awareness?
51:50 Describing Consciousness
53:50 Stages Of Spiritual Awakening
1:01:18 Comparing The Direct Path And Progressive Path
1:05:26 A Definition Of Enlightenment
1:06:21 The Second Stage Of Awakening
10:25 The True Nature Of Reality
1:15:05 Ethics Informed By The Non-Dual Understanding
1:19:42 Science Informed By Spirituality
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#rupertspira #nonduality #happiness #natureofreality #consciousness #awareness #meditation #guidedmeditation

[@myshkakozlovski802]

Rupert never fails to remind “me”.

[@eva9539]

We are all aware of Rupert's brilliance, but this young man is also brilliant. Thanks to both of you. Wonderful conversation. 👌🙏❤

[@InfiniteStormBringer]

The humility of Rupert Spira is astounding. So patient, kind and understanding. Lucky to have been able to listen to this talk. Thank you Lucas Perry and the team at Rupert Spira for putting this on KZbin. ❤

[@Mindywright27]

Lucas brings me so much hope for the future. Thank you for this wonderful conversation. ❤

[@Austination316]

How old is he

[@JosephHurtsellers]

I can't wait to get to the end of this, I had to comment long before. This Lucas young man is freaking amazing, and his great questions of this great mystic are kind of blowing me away!! 👍

[@valeriegeorge2310]

I AMAZED AT THE AWARENESS THIS YOUNG MAN HAS AWAKENED IN. HOPE AND LOVE AND BEAUTY IN OUR SPECIES IS ARISING. HEREIN LIES THE PEACE OF US ALL. THANK YOU RUPERT. SO CLEAR AND SO KIND.

[@Noct343]

He's basing his work and ideas off belief and stuff he found on the internet. A true philosopher bases his work around his OWN experience and life, Rupert is trying to tell him that but he just doesn't get it. We will never find the truth by looking outside of ourselves, thinking, conceptualizing, and believing what everyone else is telling us. He needs to put his ideas and work into his actual present experience, and work off of that! But he doesnt get it. I don't blame the kid though, modern day philosophers are brainwashed and incompetent. And what we're taught in school is ridiculous. He's missing the whole point of what Rupert was trying to tell him.

[@patrickpilkington4763]

At that end when Rupert spoke about universal truth and love! Brought burning tears to my eyes!! If only we can find it in ourselves to seek that love and truth of which we truly are!👉🙏

[@sinkec]

Awww ❤

[@noi000]

Seeking happens in the beginning, but ultimately it is seen when seeking totally stops.

[@patrickpilkington4763]

@@sinkec your Awww made me laugh!! Don't know why! Maybe cause you made me feel like a baby😊🤣😉

[@yogalife365]

wow.. If one can ask such deep and the most important questions to the BUDDHA of this age, you get this TRUTH as a result. This guy is as young as when Rupert Spira started his journey but the difference is now we have free guidance from teachers like Rupert.

[@pigzrus397]

I think quantum physics and nonduality go hand in hand.

[@nivedithakamath9388]

Thank you Rupert and Lucas 🙏

[@pantherenebuleuse]

Rupert Spira is do clear and compassionate

[@GioiaIris]

Amazingly clear Rupert. ❤❤❤

[@innerlight617]

i am amazed by the way of thinking of such a young person! Many thanks to both for this conversation .ॐ ❤

[@InfiniteStormBringer]

Elevation in consciousness arising in the next generation, truly marvelous!

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

Remarkable how people can dislike This

[@mR-dc4oq]

As a child, under the age of five, I had trouble being able to tell the difference between the dreamworld and the waking world. If I was dreaming I did not understand that, I thought it was real life. I know that there are some ‘primitive’ peoples in Third World countries Where that is their foundation. The dreamworld is considered as valid as the waking world and is regarded as real. I’m not sure how this fits in with this philosophy or if it’s even important. I became aware of it and had to train myself out of it. I had to train myself to understand that the waking world was the real world. I guess it goes back to who is the dreamer and who is experiencing the waking world. That would be awareness.

[@malaselvarajah5398]

Brilliant dialogue ❤

[@billturner4754]

0ne of your best I've ever heard. Blessing shared so well, much love ❤️

[@dextercool]

Great compact discussion touching upon many topics coherently.

[@admin6157]

Thank you Rupert! ❤

[@nickdavis9978]

Two fascinating minds. Thank you both.

[@GeertMeertens]

One is still dreaming.

[@paarkour83]

@@GeertMeertensyeah, Rupert is in heavy rem sleep 💤

[@MrJmcthy]

articulate young dude, lucky to have this opportunity

[@shubharao9741]

Awesome insight into awareness,this podcast gave.Thanks a million Rupert.Can't imagine anybody being more clearer than you.👍👍👍

[@nbenda]

There is only light! Thanks

[@pilargarcia6724]

Muchísimas gracias!!!❤🙏😊

[@James-mk8jp]

Felt like Lucas said there was “knowing” because he knew that was what Rupert was looking for, not what he wanted to say.

[@garymoore3446]

Great questions young man....

[@iloveFreedom.]

🎉just beautiful. What a great conversation. I'm sure theosophists are correct about 🌈7 rays of energy, actual entities! flowing through us all the time. Like the Pink Floyd LP One light, split into rainbows Love and Wisdom Knowledge and Science Ceremonial Order Harmony thru conflict Creative Intelligence Idealism and conceptual understanding And the other one 😂I have much to learn Thankyou🎉Thankyou🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@aurelienyonrac]

"The recognition of i am seems to be an activity in consiousness" Rupert oh i see. I love that the interviewer is actually trying to understand and share his thoughts. The way I see it either i am dead and i know it Therefore I am alive. Or I am dead and not aware if it therefore I am alive. So death is nothing to awarness

[@AskEpic]

I wonder if we can get a frank yang conversation

[@noi000]

Nice interview!!

[@ourloveourjourney215]

Anyone know how old Lucas is by chance?

[@littlewillowlinda]

I was wondering the same lol. Everyone saying he's so young... Seekers are born as soon as they realize there's a question to be "answered" aka the meaning of life. (Which we never find in the end but come to terms with anyway). I remember being like 10 and looking into the bhagavad gita lol, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who started super early

[@johannboeing-messing979]

Thank you

[@paritoshgoswamihhy8100]

This boy try hard to bring the master offline but couldn't do but his understanding in this little age is remarkable.

[@navaneetjeevan2554]

No, he didn't try to bring his master offline. He expressed his genuine skepticism. That's all. Yes, his understanding at this young age is indeed remarkable.

[@Noct343]

Idk why Rupert wastes his time with these people. I respect Rupert for not getting frustrated and angry. You can tell at some points he almost lost his cool with the nonsensical questions, but he kept it civil and I respect him for that. A true philosopher bases his work off his own life and actual experience, this guy clearly has a lot of work to do.

[@adultswimbump]

Can anyone explain step two? Thanks :)

[@antlures845]

Thank you.

[@simeondawkins6358]

That peace that inner black gaping hole that stillness that deathly silence :) its vanishing into watching watching watching

[@simeondawkins6358]

It's like a movie watching itself hanging in a great void

[@mattstocks4749]

There is no awareness. Awareness is the dream. There is just what’s happening. Nothing is aware of what is happening. In order to be aware of something, you have to get outside of it to take a fixed position. You can’t get outside of this to take a position from which to ‘know’ this. There is just what is apparently happening. It is blind to itself. It is unconditionally free. Unbound. Nothing being everything.

[@simeondawkins6358]

If u stay in the peace long enough it all becomes empty even pain does not matter anymore all is peace later even the joy and happens goes yet u have no need for it cos u r perfect chilled forever no desires

[@Buddhishgirl]

How is that even possible to be talking like this at such a young age 😮

[@plumeria66]

Internet access to a lot of different information we older folks didn’t have at his age.

[@markhogan77]

I would argue the exact reason he can see this clearly is because of his young age

[@plumeria66]

@@markhogan77 He wasn’t seeing things clearly as Rupert set some things straight with him which he resisted by changing topics.

[@pathlessenlightenment2553]

Truth = Not Thinking = Enlightenment = Non-Duality = Non-seperation = Realization = thinking there is no difference between thinking and not thinking = thinking there is no difference between ego and non-ego = thinking there is no difference between duality and non-duality = thinking that your current experience and past experience has and always will be enlightenment regardless if you are or were thinking or searching for enlightenment or performing practices = Thinking that "This" is enlightenment = Thinking that thinking or not thinking cannot get you any closer or further away from enlightenment = Thinking that nothing can get you closer or further away from enlightenment = meditation (practice of not thinking)

[@Buddhishgirl]

I am just wondering if this young man will evolve becoming more conscious or if he will identify with an idea that he is so more evolved because he understands more than others of his age... the ego could easily take that and inflate itself, you see what I mean? And maybe we will contribute to that by saying how extraordinary he his, myself included 😉😂 nowadays, young people can be more self confident and encouraging them is great, but I don't know if, at times, they don't delude themselves a little, I mean when I see such a young boy doing several interviews, I think it may be a stretch. By making them forget that they are still very young and keeping them believing they are more knowledgeable than they can actually be at that age (intellectually and emotionally) simply because of the stage of brain and psychological development they are at (nothing to do with IQ) some might become arrogant or too proud... anyways tried not too offend anyone... 😁

[@bhbae1]

That's your concept with a aspect of a glassess to look at young people.

[@epicbehavior]

It’s hard to find young people this intelligent.

[@mesayingthings7063]

young people live in the present which is a better form of intelligence than most

[@TimHamer]

nice tan rupert :)

[@PlantPoweredRadio]

Awesome! Awakening to awareness makes it impossible to be anything but an ethical vegan. The ultimate reason to never impose pain and suffering on our animal cousins.

[@ailidhlalala1592]

I experienced a lot of vegan ego.... Like, I am better because I am more ethical than you are.... Also many vegans eat things from other parts of the world, because it would not be possible to be vegan in every area I do not know if we are supposed to eat meat or not but I would not make that assumption to a spiritual thing

[@thegloriousbothand]

does anyone know how old lucas is?

[@_PL_]

Most likely about 27 or 28. He studied philosophy at university between 2012 and 2016. Assuming he started at age 17 or 18, that'd put his birth year around 1995.

[@user-dt3pw2kt4v]

This is just another theory though... i guess we ll never know the truth until death takes us into its new dimension 💫💫💫💕💔 i can t wait

[@junecathierosier5902]

I Am

[@mellowbirds4777]

If awareness is fundamental then it would be aware of everything all at once. There would be no possibility of apparent localisations or individual perspectives. It’s like having two hot coins on my leg. There’s no possibility of awareness seeing separately from the perspectives of each individual coin. Or if my eyes were 10 metres apart from eachother there would be no way for awareness to spilt into two individual perspectives. Both perspectives would be seen together. So awareness is not fundamental.

[@paritoshgoswamihhy8100]

Brother, we're never separate from anything but we find something otherwise because it is the inability of our senses. Our sense perceptions are accustomed to divide the one undivided into many. Thousands and thousands cells are there in our bodies and they all have separate individuality but senses couldn't notice them and we call the whole as "I".when you deeper into it you will find you are there only playing with your thoughts, emotions, feelings, there is none else . Thanks🙏.

[@tropialex]

It is if there is only one and other beings you perceive as "aware" or only actually perceptions in awareness (your own awareness)

[@mellowbirds4777]

@@tropialex You need to think more carefully about what I’m saying. How could there possibly be a ‘your own awareness’? That very awareness is coming from the one so it would include the perspectives of every other conscious being too.

[@tropialex]

@@mellowbirds4777 you're not understanding me. Your original thinking is almost right. There is only one. You. You're the only one. It's solipsism but beyond it. You assume the forms you see as other humans are actually having a subjective experience like you (the one) are. You are existence. From your experience, awareness is literally the root. Try to find another root. Through examining your own experience.

[@mellowbirds4777]

@@tropialex I don’t agree with the idea of awareness at all. The word doesn’t appear to mean anything. There’s the immediate fact of another being with me as I sit with a friend. It’s just the way you sense this as a young child when you play with your friends. They are truly real and truly relating to you as separate distinct beings. I get why some like solipsism but my interest is more psychology. I like to fully recognise and tune in to others and respond with full possible attention. Solipsism seems to discourage that important motivation when it comes to relating to others.

[@dancingariesbeyondverb]

This guy is the male version of Jenna Ortega 😅

[@pantherenebuleuse]

Remarkable, a young man does not realize who is in dialogue with him

[@junecathierosier5902]

Just is

[@junecathierosier5902]

None is real

[@MyJoejoey]

Beautiful conversation about nothing

[@simeondawkins6358]

We all share the same secret name I

[@WakeUpEternals]

None of you are fully self-aware. Interesting conclusions. But mostly wrong.

[@WakeUpEternals]

@Peter T no, my friend.

[@WakeUpEternals]

@Peter T Here on KZbin in the comment section? It will take too long to type, but I will give you the short, quick version. Most of you are like NPCs. Your attention span is between 6 and 12 seconds. Your mind slips away. 90% of your waking time, you are all on autopilot. Once I realized that I wasn't fully self aware, after the initial shock, I did everything I could to become fully self aware. And I did. The world looks far different than you can possibly imagine. It cannot be communicated. By becoming fully self aware, I came across many things. One huge one was.... leaving the construct and going home into the real world. I moved my awareness there. I communicated and got the info I needed. How this construct came to be, what happened, and how to end it. What we are and so on.

[@WakeUpEternals]

@Peter T I made a vid on how to become fully self-aware.

[@WakeUpEternals]

@Peter T You think in duality, my friend. There is no duality in the real world. There are no feelings nor emotions, no space, no time. No light nor darkness, no love no hate no evil no good, and so on. I exist in 2 states now. Duality, since I am here metaphorically speaking and in nonduality. I know what we are, I know what this world is. I had to come down to this level in order to communicate with the rest of you. To use thoughts, sort of speak. Otherwise, communication is impossible.

[@WakeUpEternals]

@Peter T Well enjoy, my friend.

[@joajoajb]

The fundamental error that Rupert and others alike assume and continues to assume is the error of equating knowingness with Existence Itself. The very nature of knowingness is knowledge. It's the nature of knowingness to turn everything into a knowledge including all versions of so called " Self Knowledge ". Given half a chance, knowingness wouldn't hesitate to turn Existence Itself into another knowledge. Rupert is fundamentally mistaking conscious reflection as Existence Itself. It's like when we watch little cute puppies playing. We see the innocence of the puppies. We see and appreciate the innocence of the puppies from our conscious reflection points of view. But, that is not the view that the puppies themselves share. The puppies being innocence themselves do not know themselves as innocence. Real innocence doesn't know It is innocence. That's the Charm of Real innocence. Being Existence and knowing Existence are not the same thing nor can it be equated. This is the trap that much of these non-dual circles find themselves in. It is like claiming that not only the puppies are innocence themselves, but, they also know that they are innocence themselves. The moment the puppies know they're innocence themselves, is the moment they lose their innocence and mistake conscious reflection as the innocence itself. Existence Itself simply IS. That doesn't mean Existence Itself knows that It is Existence. That is what makes Existence pure innocence Itself. What Rupert is trying to do in ignorance, is telling the puppies, to know their own innocence. The moment the puppies do, they begin to suffer by this conscious reflection and knowledge and no longer display innocence. EXISTENCE ITSELF primary, knowing of Existence or knowledge which is conscious reflection is always secondary. A necessary evil, A shadow, so to speak, concerning experience but, Never Existence Itself. Just as Real innocence doesn't know that IT is innocence, EXISTENCE AS IS doesn't know that IT IS EXISTENCE. That's the Real Charm of Existence, ever remaining beyond the grasp of conscious reflection, knowingness,knowledge and experience. Knowingness or conscious reflection are due to the body-mind configuration we inherit. The only ignorance here are the futile efforts to turn the Charm of the UNKNOWN and its INNOCENCE into a dead knowledge of conscious reflection. It may serve life and its survival purposes to some degrees, but, the perpetuation of this ignorance is done at the cost of losing the innocence of Existence as IS in Itself. We can never be too careful when it concerns the Absolute True Nature of ourselves and Existence Itself.

[@HopyHop1]

Are you saying that existence is made from something other than knowing? If so, what is what you call existence made of? How can you verify your theory?

[@joajoajb]

@@HopyHop1 what makes you think EXISTENCE AS IS IN ITSELF can be turned into a knowledge ? REAL EXISTENCE AS IS IN ITSELF, doesn't know ITSELF . That's the Real Charm Of EXISTENCE ITSELF , Ever remaining AS IS IN ITSELF, Beyond the grasp of every questioner, and the instrument of questioning Itself. Don't demand the puppies to answer regarding their innocence. You're Killin the Real Charm of the innocence and EXISTENCE ITSELF. Let the questinoner and the instrument of questioning drop away. The puppies being real innocence themselves without knowing or knowledge of themselves is the Real and authentic Charm of the puppies and EXISTENCE ITSELF. The moment the puppies know their own innocence being, the charm gets lost, and unnecessary sufferings come. The moment EXISTENCE ITSELF knows its own being , It loses the Charm and suffer. Thanks for sharing your thought!

[@nnsrinivas]

@joajaajb : I had this question about EXISTENCE ( Or Awareness). Does Awareness know itself. From reading your comments ( I understand some of it but not fully), you seem to say Awareness just IS. It does not know itself. As part of our spiritual journey we are trying to short circuit our mind to Awareness to end the suffering . This is how I understand

[@anthonyw6488]

I'm not seeing where you're saying anything that differs from Rupert says in other videos or this one. Look forward to your podcast explaining your version if you disagree :)

[@joajoajb]

@@nnsrinivas EXISTENCE IS EXISTENCE. IT SIMPLY IS without having any knowledge of Itself primarily. That is what makes EXISTENCE , Pure Innocence Itself. The puppies being Real Innocence themselves, without any knowledge of the innocence being, is the Real and Authentic Charm of the puppies, the very innocence Itself. If you tell the puppies to know their own innocence being, and if the puppies do manage to get a self knowing knowledge of their innocence being, then, the Real and Authentic Charm of the innocence also get lost . The puppies can no longer display Real innocence. Real innocence is Real, and has the Real Charm, because, Real innocence doesn't know that It is Real innocence. Real Existence doesn't know that It is Real Existence. That's what makes Real Existence, Pure Innocence with Its Real and Authentic Charm. The moment the puppies claim any knowledge of their innocence, the Charm is lost , and the innocence no longer displayed. Awareness, Consciousness or Knowingness are nothing but an instrument of knowledge. Secondary to EXISTENCE. It's more like a shadow of Existence, distorting Existence into every knowledge from obsurd to Insane, Robbing Existence of All the Charms and the innocence which is ever prior to Knowingness or knowledge. EXISTENCE AS IS IN ITSELF, IS PURE INNOCENCE. REAL INNOCENCE doesn't know It Is. And, That is the Real and Authentic Charm of EXISTENCE ITSELF, Prior to knowledge of Its own innocence being. Thanks for sharing your thought!

[@-a-l-t-]

wholly shite only the ego has a belief of “awakened”. the ego is illusion.

[@privateprivate1865]

We are simulated with dna

[@billygugen8104]

But a simulation of what by who ? Couldnt DNA just be Gods or Sources tool for the creation of human and other eathly species ? Why does it have to be a simulation ? It has to end somewhere. Cant be mad scientists just endlessly creating life forms in computer simulation programs. The idea is intruiging but souless pointless and hollow and thin.

[@epicbehavior]

Explain simulated. This sounds like something someone would say to sound “smart”, kind of like how simulation theory was so outside the box for cerebral-cortex dominant individuals but it’s really not all that profound.

[@Bonnie-Lewis-Australia]

Sorry but can’t carry on listening to this - this guy is so intellectual and over analyses everything - it’s so simple

[@Ganeden999]

A person whose brain has been damaged doesn't have the same awareness as a person whose brain has not been damaged.

[@Jesserd95]

With a brain injury, your subjective experience changes, but the awareness that observes this experience is ultimately the same. After my brain injury, my sense perceptions have changed, emotional states have changed, thought patterns have changed. However, these are all just things that I am aware of, exactly as I was aware of them before they had changed. The content of awareness has changed, not the awareness in which the content appears.

[@Ganeden999]

@@Jesserd95 But you act different than before, you make more mistakes. Somebody who is really aware doesn't make as many mistakes as you do.

[@sinkec]

Apparent mistakes happen before and after brain injury, unless we are talking clinical death, but even then I wouldn’t be so sure that there isn’t some weird sense of awareness/knowing functioning. Reality is a magician. 😊

[@Ganeden999]

To do evil things denotes a weird sense of awareness indeed.

[@user-si3oo1qy5r]

What a joy to see and hear such a young seeker of the truth 💓💓💓. There is hope for a change in the matrix of society with a misunderstanding of the nature of things💔❤‍🩹❤🙏. Thank you for this meeting and for my joy to hear the wisdom of this conversation❤.