AWFUL Hitboxes... - Behind The Scenes Of Classic Sonic

[@LapperDev]

What's the craziest fact in this video? New Video: Sonic Blast MANIAFIED > kzbin.info/www/bejne/pH66i2Claqingq8

[@trippyanimates]

The sonic 2 boss hit box

[@IkinBBfromAnthologyOfTheKiller]

The sonic sensors, we could do a lot of stuff with that.

[@Konic_and_Snuckles]

Craziest 16-bit Sonic fact: It's a hot mess that's fun to play. My life compared to yours: It's hot mess that's fun to play.

[@COMBOY]

The spikes trick in Sonic 1 and the water drop hitboxes were the craziest facts for me. and about how much of a life I have, well, I'd just say I wish I have more time to make my own stuff like you with your research. 😅

[@AndyHappyGuy]

Your hand's hitbox.

[@hyperon_ion9423]

I bet the developers _wish_ they had tools to look at the hit boxes like this. A load of these issues look like they exist because the devs had to look at them in a bunch of text boxes with numbers rather than visual images.

[@Triangly]

Ngl whoever coded your hand hitbox should be fired

[@KalokesMysteries]

They ought to fix it first, then be fired

[@madrox8]

well if you think about it, there can only be 2 possible ppl to have coded his hitbox

[@resurrect404]

yooo I’m subbed to u you animations are so good

[@m3xX_X]

Wait r u that old KZbinr I used to watch?

[@screane5739]

God was caught lacking

[@alientif0450]

Now i understand why i keep bumping into things accidentally, my hitboxes are messed up too

[@pikajade]

I think the reason the hitbox of Robotnik's chemical blobs is off-center is so that they are positioned correctly when they first start falling. If you look closely, you'll notice that the position of the projectile is the same as the position of the box when it drops.

[@chair3258]

These videos have godly editing, this deserve the 100 thousand subscribers at the very least. They take long to arrive, but with this quality is well deserved the wait, keep it up!

[@ABitofEpicness]

In the future when he's at that point, we will all turn back to the old videos and see comments like these, fulfilled.

[@calupoh7245]

no it doesn’t. paint drying is just better.

[@Knuckx117]

This explains my intense hatred for those stupid crabs in Metropolis Zone.

[@ardic23]

At 3:27 I'm sure it bothered us all until we realized we had to go further

[@leandroxbl1]

Never knew about crouching on the chemical plant boss

[@Sodaslushy]

Same

[@azulamazighberber]

5:35 "I ported my LUA script to real-life. And check it out!" **pink box appears out of nowhere making a sound effect**

[@Poly_0000]

Man the pacing in your videos has gotten so so much better. Really glad to see you keep improving!

[@BaneStudio]

Ngl, collisions are EXTREMELY frustrating to work with when creating a Sonic/Sonic-Esc game! 🙄But this video is so eye opening, and here I thought Sonic's slope physics were perfect!

[@sonictag-teamheroes8835]

Absolutely fascinating! I feel a sense of closure I never realized I wanted after seeing the hitboxes for those frustrating crabs!

[@kadlerio]

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who found that jump through spikes bug as a kid. I very carefully jumped through the section of spikes to the left of the tvs on Green Hill Act 2 thinking there must be some secret, but nope.

[@FoakHome]

I always wondered why a hitbox can't just be the same as the model, especially in pixelated games? Any answers?

[@LapperDev]

It would have to then check many many 1px squares rather than just 1 big one, saves a ton on processing. These days computers can do it easy, but it is still simpler to code, design, and process with simple boxes.

[@FoakHome]

@@LapperDev Fair enough, I suppose.

[@themustachioedfish5988]

@@FoakHome Plus, when done right, the player's not actually going to notice if the hitbox doesn't line up 1:1 with the model. And sometimes, if something's hitbox perfectly matches an object's size, the player will say the game's cheap and that they're getting hit when they "clearly" avoided something, or that they should've picked something up but didn't. So, devs usually rig the game slightly in the player's favor so the player thinks the game is fair and not rigged against them.

[@hi-i-am-atan]

for context, hitboxes are really simple as all they require is comparing the sums of the objects' coordinates and dimensions, i.e. you can tell if two objects are overlapping horizontally by checking a.x + a.width > b.x - b.width and a.x - a.width < b.x + b.width. or, in other words, by checking if a's rightmost edge is to the right of b's leftmost edge, while its leftmost edge is to the left of b's rightmost edge then you just a similar check for the other dimensions and bam, you can now tell if a and b are overlapping with only a handful of checks and instructions. checking for overlapping pixels has nothing so elegant, unfortunately

[@COMBOY]

Making hitboxes being the same as the sprites would make the game coding much difficult than they need to be, and also putting too much pixelated hitboxes would cause it to lag a lot. That's why it's recommended to make collisions as close as possible without using too much hitboxes.

[@blinkachu5275]

So how would one create a physics system like this? It's awesome you can visualize it, but I think it would be even more awesome if you could create a tutorial to recreate this movement/collision c: Yeah there's a Physics Guide but that is only in semi-code and doesn't apply to modern game engines in some cases, and the tutorials that are there on the internet never tackle slopes, only straight movement, and even then it's rarely correct to the Physics of Sonic. I have created movement on straight surfaces like Sonic just fine but slopes are just so difficult to handle with very little explanation as to the how.

[@LapperDev]

The guide is designed to apply to any game engine (I know because I have been adding to it for years!) if there's anything about the guide that confuses you or you feel needs better explaining, please DM the Twitter account @SonicPhysics (me) and I can explain things or make changes. But when it comes to slopes, in particular sonic slopes, the main advice I give is make the collision yourself using your own system, don't rely on the built in collision functions or default systems in these modern IDEs, otherwise it's likely to be even harder to do the advanced stuff (and in worst cases, affect your physics in ways you can't control). It'll mean less/faster code, more control, and better results.

[@Fluxuation]

7:40 CSS players: *maniacal laughter*

[@2DCheese]

and yet the object limit is so high it never gets reached but my PC runs like crap anyways

[@Sly88Frye]

This was quite honestly very fascinating to see. I'm under the impression that you really studied this stuff. I tried studying python years ago and I made some progress but then unfortunately my medication for my ADHD had just gotten so expensive I couldn't afford to keep spending as much as I had to every month to get it so it was hard to focus and a class I should have completed years ago I am nowhere close to done. But the fact is I find this kind of stuff to be fascinating. Maybe I could find a way to set some time aside to really learn this stuff too. Growing up I've actually wanted to design video games but I just hadn't really had the confidence in ability to code or design them. The closest thing I can say I am done is make entire campaigns on the starcraft campaign editor and used the tools within that campaign Editor to make there be dialogue between characters and cause conditions to trigger actions to happen not just victory in the feet but various other actions that would allow you to progress on the starcraft mission. Well anyways, this was really awesome to watch so I'm the subscribing and curious about a whole lot more

[@costelinha1867]

And me complaining that the little game I'm making while learning Python have messy hitboxes, but then you remind me of the evil robot crab of Metropolis.

[@RikouHogashi]

I like useing the term "Hurtbox" when dealing with boxes that hit you instead of hitting the foe to differenciate the term hitbox ive seen this consept in fighting games all time time its nice to finally see it in platformers especialy in Sonic games

[@Planeawesomeness]

I had no idea you should crouch to avoid the chemical plant boss attack, this will make fighting that boss much easier, thank you

[@fransiscayulianita68]

An even easier strategy: When he first appears just jump at him 8 times before he gets to do his attack and go to the left/middle before you fall into the water.

[@Vexcenot]

That intro looks amazing. Just a little too loud espescially in contrast with your quieter and gentle voice. Got Lappy jumpscared

[@LapperDev]

Apologies! Will try adjust better in future.

[@foojo9]

I’d love to see a part 2 with Sonic CD and Sonic 3&K

[@LetsPlayKeldeo]

Man Id love a sonic 3 video like this ! Keep up the good work

[@CalzoneB]

I'm guessing the Big ring hitbox in Sonic 1 is long vertically while centered to make it appear that you are jumping through the ring, and not collecting it.

[@UltraCenterHQ]

I love Overlay activation sound effect, because it kinda sounds like a vine boom

[@CanalDaZoeiraBrasil]

Bro, that's a lot of crazy stuff I didn't know about the hitboxes. I wonder if the hitbox oddities still are present in the mobile remake of the game (like the Metropolis' crab or Chemical Plant's boss).

[@VirtuaVirtue]

probably not because its a custom engine if im correct

[@shadowfoxxie7182]

this was actually really useful, right now im developing a sonic framework in GMS2 and i was struggling to understand some sections of the physics guide!

[@AGwolf2097]

commenting at 0:35 into the video. I've played these games from the day they were first released; I'm not a speed-runner, I don't actually have personal or intrinsic knowledge of the code and physics engine at a programming level, but my navigation of the games is almost entirely intuitive muscle-memory all these years later... I'm looking forward to see what you have to share with this, and I already know that I'm gonna be screwing with this collision overlay tonight when I'm done with household chores :D

[@yousefslimani99]

Thank You Bro For Discovering My Favorite Classic Sonic Games Hitboxes!! I Appreciate That!!

[@Brucifer2]

I am 30 years old...and i had no idea crouching keeps you safe from the Chemical Plant boss drop.

[@LapperDev]

I don't blame ya, it's not exactly intuitive lol

[@suddenllybah]

This is really neat. the box hitbox is disappearing makes sense, particularly becasue bosses where the boss disappears and reappears and you can embed Sonic in the middle of their hitbox, and you don't hit the boss every frame when you do so.

[@LapperDev]

That's exactly why, nice point, I should have mentioned it

[@suddenllybah]

@@LapperDev It is interesting that it happens for Sonic 1, a game that I don't recall having any "teleport" bosses, as well as not having Spin dash, as a way to maybe attack and pass through a boss hit box. Sonic 2 had Sliver Sonic, who I would basically beat by spin dashing through when he dashes without spinning. and Sonic 3 had the act 2 boss of Angel Island as a "teleporter", so it's not like they didn't have use for the concept in the sequels.

[@420jw]

For some Reason, Perhaps due to my Greater-than-Standard interest in Technology, Video Games, and Game Design, I easily find this one of my Favourite Videos on your Channel

[@PopfulFrost]

The individual spikes having their own collision is so funny.

[@MrEvilbyte]

I have the feeling the blob hitbox is off center, is because it's actually a larger sprite then it looks. Like the blob is the upper/right corner of a 2x2 sprite block. The other blocks simply have no graphics in them. Or something...

[@SherlockSMasters]

About the Metropolis zone it is really annoyed by asteron ,the crab with a long hand and also the grasshoppers but then that one day I literally speedrunning without getting any damages

[@cdigames]

I am willing to bet the reason the hitbox for the chemical plant boss is like that is so you get hit if you are jumping at robotnik as he is doing his attack animation, that offset hitbox comes out right at the corner of the container.

[@vani-lla]

Very good and informative video. I’ve played these games for almost two decades, and I never knew the reason why Sonic avoided damage from the chemicals but Tails didn’t.

[@aluminum8160]

"In theory if there is a single pixel gap between 2 objects, sonic can get in there"

[@LapperDev]

He been dietin

[@HavingFunTimes]

This is an amazing video Intriguing thumbnail, great writing, and extremely high skill editing!!!!! Please make more like this!

[@TheZMaster507]

This is an eyeopener to many weird things possible in the classic games

[@niksooxyz]

Damn, sometimes the youtube algorithm doesn’t miss. I’ve fallen in love with your editing style and I’m pumped for the sonic 3 video! You’ve got a new sub pal

[@LunaPrincessNinjato]

I learn so much and got an understanding to how these things work.

[@javier10541]

I thought that Sonic surviving that Chemical Plant Boss attack was because he deflected it with his spines... Like a hedgehog Also Tails doesn't have spines to protect himself so he cannot deflect the attack

[@LuucasIckie]

Me too

[@abbaad_ibn_abdullah]

people are talking about how your hand hitbox is off centered, but why has nobody mentioned that his fingers have no hitboxes? its just one big cube

[@san9-943]

I think Sonic can tank the boss attack because of the spikes on his back

[@gameyosc-v3o]

3:49 Ohhh.. That's why they brought in the insta-shield!

[@mr.foogle3004]

That mega crabmeat is the bane of my existence

[@vertz1515]

Man, you’re criminally underrated

[@dmtm]

Hello Lapper. Very nice video to show what the hitboxes is for the next generation. ^^

[@retro3188]

Hi. Glad to see you’re back!

[@spikerthedragonbear]

Lapper is secretly the next TaxMan

[@thepotatowithhat]

I thought I was the only one that knew that "stand in the middle of the spike" glitch in sonic 1

[@milesprower6110]

Imagine if instead of the Crab arm to been forget, it was the trajectory of those mantis spinning scythes...

[@oatmealman1586]

I think I know why the chemical blob hitbox is like that. If you watch the way it's used in the attacks the egg mobile will frequently move toward the falling blob and the hitbox could have been moved so that it doesn't hit the egg mobile while it's falling. Essentially, the hitbox may have been moved there to prevent It from destroying the egg mobile when it's dropped and when it's falling.

[@LapperDev]

Interesting theory! However objects arent programmed to interact with eachother by default, only with the players

[@oatmealman1586]

@@LapperDev damn.

[@realjordantrs]

here's my theory about the Sonic 2 Chemical Plant boss: Sonic doesn't get hit because he's curling up into a ball, his quills are protecting him. Tails doesn't do that, he just crouches, so he's still vulnerable. Is this actually why they did this? Probably not, but I like to imagine it is.

[@COMBOY]

I KNEW IT!! I knew that the crab enemy from Metropolis Zone had a big fat hazard hitbox above its head!! 😠 What a cheater!

[@LightEffexor]

The Shellcracker hitbox is so bad, it makes Dark Souls 2 blush.

[@dededethesuperstarwarrior]

Amazing!

[@The-Zer0th-Law]

Jumping between individual spikes like: ♪ Oh, I have all my fingers ♫ ♪ The knife goes chop chop chop ♫ ♪ If I miss the spaces in-between my fingers will come off ♫ ♪ And if I hit my fingers ♫ ♪ The blood will soon come out ♫ ♪ But all the same I play this game cause that's what it's all about ♫ ♪ Oh, chop chop chop chop chop chop ♫ ♪ I'm picking up the speed ♫ ♪ And if I hit my fingers then my hand will start to bleed ♫

[@exi_m7074]

Honestly, most older games were coded Extremely strangely.

[@CrappyBlue]

some instances of that slope in emerald hill also exhibit the same no-slope-physics traits in their top half that you highlighted in the marble zone slope object, i've noticed. it's very silly rolling on them only to come to a dead stop a couple inches down.

[@LapperDev]

Because of the way it works, the flagging of that EHZ tile means you will be able to walk on it as if it is a flat wall (angle = 90), hence the flying straight up when leaving) when you are already rotated, but ALSO as if it was a flat floor (angle = 0) when you are already right side up. I noticed its oddness way before I looked into Sonic games and I always did wonder why.

[@rhinuu045]

your editing is crazy man

[@speedthehedgehog4967]

Oh thanks for the Chemical plant thing. Now it would take me less time to beat that boss :)

[@VAdaPEGA]

I hate that I know most of these quirks and abuse them on a daily basis in ROM hacks. Speaking of, the script doesn't seem to work on ROM hacks at all, even after changing the header to the original games, despite the fact that for most of them the hitbox system stays the same, it's a shame cause this would've been a great script to use for debugging.

[@LapperDev]

Yep, unfortunately to provide the information (the real information as it happens, rather than guessing based on specific object ram data) the script has to run functions during execution of specific lines of the game code that are present in the rom. All the EX_* values are positions in the code for the Sonic 1 REV01 in this case. Not saying it's very practical, but if you could manage to correctly reposition all the EX_ values in the script for the code in a hack build, it would then work for that too (only if it's still Sonic 1 and the stuff being read still works the same).

[@VAdaPEGA]

@@LapperDev Yeah at that point you may as well make a collision view system in the ROM hack instead cause things will inevitably shift around (not to mention completely break on new systems, such as the one in "I made you a Salad", where the collision sizes are in their own dedicated bytes instead of part of a look up table)

[@DarkTails256]

I could have benefited from that chemical plant hitbox trick 7 years ago 😭

[@The17thScrub]

I always knew that damn robot crab was unfair

[@winterfoxuk6823]

Loved this video! More like it please!!!! I thought I knew everything there was to know about sonic on the mega drive! How wrong I was

[@Mr.Bouncer]

Aw hell nah, da crab robot got that janky hitbox

[@TheFamilyBovine]

Why have you removed the videos on Sonic Studio? I was so hyped for that, I assume it's cancelled to focus on the channel instead? :/

[@LapperDev]

Follow the Twitter 😎 @SonicStudioProj

[@djricecooker]

Not all slopes are created equal Slope lives matter!

[@crimester]

I WANT MORE OF THIS

[@kobsboy4227]

WHY DOESNT THIS HAVE 1000 MORBILLION VIEWS UR SO TALENTED U DESERVE WAY MORE U CAN EDIT BETTER THAN MOST BIG CHANNELS U CAN MAKE GORGEUOUS PIXEL ART BETTER THAN LOTS OF PIXEL ART IN BIG GAMES UR AMAZING U CAN CODE TOO

[@Xenon_XTH]

Don't make some non-morbius jokes

[@RealSonGokuDBZ]

Metropolis' Mantis Hitbox.

[@Daylen523]

That robot crab from metropolis zone was a dick though. All of the badniks in metropolitan were annoying

[@refeals]

Really cool to see these mechanics

[@Skypatroller_BenCD]

05:14 it's also hurt Knuckles (i just tried that with Sonic Tails and Knuckles)

[@SonicQuantumicity]

Cool Video Lapper Keep It up

[@Victorcolongarcia]

Love it!!! Where’s the follow up?! 😂

[@thebombingsoda]

Oh so I don’t just suck at the game when I always get hit my the crab badniks, stupid hit boxes

[@Livithen86]

Make more of this content on other sonic games as well in other games

[@pinguin4898]

ah yes, I am not clumsy, just my hitboxes are a mess

[@Treguard]

1:48 - Come on man, you're not an American child. "*BY* accident". This has ruined my life.

[@LapperDev]

Too much exposure to American content maybe 💁‍♂️

[@LetsPlayKeldeo]

Awesome ! Cant rember I subscribed to you nor that I turn on notifications but this js the good shit !

[@trippyanimates]

LEZ GOOO NEW VIDEO

[@dominikcygan2664]

this channel is quickly becoming my favourite sonic based channel

[@sonicsynthwave]

This is a great video. Those badniks are so annoying. Well. Yesterday was my birthday. Hooray I guess...

[@SAF_Sonic]

Hi triangly

[@brian93724]

Thats why i forget things all the time *My brain is too small for the memories terrain sensors*

[@theweeboi9097]

The new intro 👌👌

[@MrBlitzardo21]

Don't worry, just putting a comment just to remember that this is my first video i've watched from him.

[@thealandude9146]

the damn metropolis crab1!!!!

[@AceNX]

I would love to see a Sonic 3 video!

[@metal3129]

This Guy Is Awesome!

[@Lordy-Lord]

We've seen you do so many great videos tackling classic sonic games and their pixel art, what about sonic advance for a try. It's almost classic.

[@DonkeyFilms]

This is very interesting stuff!

[@coolguy-yz4in]

tbh i dont get why the caterkiller is the hardest to hit, what i do is just go infront on it and spin-attack the head.

[@jamesshipley9164]

Expected more Cybershell

[@RandomFella745]

Sega I love you, but don't test me

[@TheHeartlessAlchemist]

Great video.