Ayn Rand on Donahue 1979 (5/5)

[@gusgusthegreat]

How the audience failed to understand that the woman who said, "I used to to agree with you, but now that I am more educated I don't," was insulting her I shall never know. She was obviously implying a causal relationship between her further education and disagreement with Rand. She may as well have said, "Now that I'm not stupid anymore, I disagree with you." Obvious insult, folks.

[@NicholasWongCQ]

01:35 No Donahue you numpty, that woman wasn't just expressing her disagreement with Rand, she was insulting Rand.

[@1158scott]

Is Donahue really that stupid to not know what was done to a world famous author/philosopher or just such a leftist wimp he has to support all his ladies ?

[@Leitilumo]

1:43 No... she simply didn't want to acknowledge someone who began their statement with their life history about how they became better educated and rose above her ideals. It was rude of that girl to say that, and she deserved to be snubbed by Rand.

[@chairde]

Ayn Rand is true to her ideas no matter what the audience thinks. Her responses are based on a very thoughtful position.

[@schulwitz]

"her ideas don't work because she offers no explanation on how to deal with 'looters'." . She offers plenty: 1. Use your reasoning ability to help others see when their actions are destructive. 2. Remove yourself from their presence, don't be a victim. (Galt's Gulch) 3. Use dishonesty and force if they lack consciousness and are physically threatening. (Dagny lies to and shoots the zombie guard.) 4. Risk your life when higher values are at stake. (Galt tries reasoning with them, gets tortured.)

[@COMB0RICO]

Thank you for posting this. Much appreciation.

[@limbeckk8632]

She is so fucking fire, where the hell are the intellectuals like this today?

[@4lfclvr67]

She is fascinating. You wont find anyone like her having this type of discussion on talk shows today. The dumbing down of America really took off in the 80s.

[@bvegannow1936]

Ban: mandatory school, gov control over education and curriculum, hsd and ged requirements, public school, directly tax funding schools. Let kids learn job skills and work instead

[@justinp5661]

The 2000s

[@sonnybrown4758]

Man. They just don't have interviews like this anymore. It's a damn shame.

[@elRubio102]

They are literally talking about the same issues we are talking about today

[@cyberpunkhowl674]

elRubio102 same issues we are talking about today and it’s been five years since you said it

[@Zackerybob]

I don't agree with everything Rand says, but boy, do I enjoy listening to her LOL

[@Mitzi73]

Very impressed with the way Phil Donohue moderated this interview. That was good television. Too bad TV has been dumbed down in modern times.

[@rockhardrockhounds9970]

It is all propaganda. Social engineering. Thought control.

[@monsoroe]

utterly brilliant mind!

[@bvegannow1936]

Ban: mandatory school, gov control over education and curriculum, hsd and ged requirements, public school, directly tax funding schools.

[@86crud]

"A commaner in chief of the Army, a woman?".. Since she put it that way, it does sound kind of funny.

[@alexanderleeart]

Yes, it really is shocking. It is so sad to see, also, that most of the audience audience members seemed to judge Ayn Rand by everything but her rational statements. She was certainly not good looking, nor was she a particularly good speaker of English, but all of her arguments were sound and her points were logically pristine.

[@barkulator]

@4rcane No I think she means it is not in a woman's nature to be a commander in chief. She said women can be leaders and intellectual equals, but commander in chief of an army of men, no. I think she also means that if it ever happened, it would only be by a huge mistake and would result in a very bad outcome.

[@madderbass]

Can somebody tell me what Ayn Rand is being asked at 4:25? I have no idea what the heck Goldemayer is, or however the heck you spell it. Someone please help.

[@theallmightychad]

Was Dagny Taggart the character that had the chain link tattoo's on her wrist???

[@RobertBMenke]

@luceean What do you think she's doing in this interview? She's having her beliefs questioned and she answered them politely. Sanctioning disrespect does not imply arrogance. She is extremely confident in her philosophy as any good philosopher should be.

[@thecaster2]

What is the inconsistency?

[@KyleSkullz]

Problem with Ayn Rand is she says "the arabs" and doesn't regard them as individuals. "Some arabs" do what she is describing, not all.

[@Sivels]

@fhjgdjg I take my comment back. By theway, I was referring to the audience's questions. Ayn Rand was a brilliant woman, also many intellectuals of the time. My point was simply that the general population is more educated today. But people are still incapable of thinking critically.

[@barkulator]

@dodododa They lay on the ground? Who told you that? She has bases for each of her points, what is your basis for saying that?

[@shonester]

I think it's more along the lines - that if a woman were to president she would have to carry a lot of the stereotypical male qualities...and perhaps back then there weren't too many like that. Thatcher was a tough one though.

[@19cohen]

GREAT THANKS FOR UPLOAD.

[@railroadtrash09]

Ayn was a brilliant person. I agree with her mostly...

[@2natw]

Very interesting! I had a teacher from Sri Lanka. Did you see much of the conflict there, and how does that land with you in the humans are rational/irrational debate?

[@clintcarter]

Awesome, thanks for posting!

[@cookiesonsteve]

omg i thought she was about to die on stage

[@eap8317]

It's sad that she was invited once and again to Donahue's show (and that she agreed) only to be ridiculed or having her opinions questioned in a sort of roman circus where she is the poor slave and donahue and the audience are the lions!!

[@josephbel]

Thanks for your much appreciated input.

[@barkulator]

@bassface17 He has to play the devil's advocate and take the position of opposition to Rand in order for her to explain her positions. He doesn't necessarily have to believe in the points he argues in order to get her to open up; his job is to get her to open up. If he starts out agreeing, then there's no counterpoint for Rand. Interviewers have to do this.

[@robertchflynn]

I wonder how many in that crowd look back at this and say holy shit!! Especially, when discussing god and arabs....

[@kthcsh]

this woman is pretty amazing, very wise. i don't think she is half as eloquent as say Milton Friedman but that doesn't mean she is not good at understanding life and some of some of the evils that have surfaced as "services" to those in need. very sound thinker. i admire her.

[@bijosn]

a woman that speaks with authority, honesty and conviction

[@JCJ77]

My how we have fallen, Jerry Springer and Maury.

[@thenextkingofuganda]

What we cannot grasp a understanding of tends to be confusing.

[@rondus18]

Speaking of Nader, I'd have liked to see those two debate.

[@TimPQF]

It's extremely interesting to me how this woman's psychology has shaped her philosophy. It is an inescapable fact that we are all human and are dynamically influenced by our environments, history and the fundamental way in which we interact with other human beings. I disagree with her philosophy and can understand the appeal of it for others, but even more importantly, I find her personal characteristics very instrumental in understanding why she has developed this view of existence.

[@atlasshrugged2u]

@bassface17 Sorry, but he was not at all attacking her. He simply told her that in this particular situation, she was not fair in the way she handed down her "judgement" of the Iraqi people, but when a little criticism (and it wasen't even criticism; just a difference of opinion) came her way, she couldn't take it, so Phil HAD to make that point because she was being a hypocrite; and I'm her biggest fan as you can see but wrong is wrong and she needed to own up to it.

[@connievino4226]

She is nuts. She couldn't stick to her own ideas.

[@2natw]

My basis for saying that everyone is irrational is not myself projecting. As someone who enjoys observing human behavior, mine included, that seems to be the only possible conclusion. I simply have never come across anyone who is, overall, rational. This gets more down to the semantics of what it means to be rational, I suppose. At that point, you just have to disagree... Incidentally, what do you think about the differences between humans and other animals?

[@sherwinfitz]

I don't see it as an issue. After having served under 3 different presidents who never served in armed conflict, this is not an issue. As Commander-in-Chief, they have military advisors to guide them militarily.

[@baydood510]

She just wasn't consistent with her principles and it's sad because she knew better. I still appreciate most of her writings.

[@pogoman555]

@Rawego Yeah Donahue's way of speaking only furthers my belief in Rand

[@unfortunatebeam]

I see her point in this context. Women dont make the life sacrifice of using their bodies to protect countries in times of war. I know that's not everything, but that's a far greater and more terrifying sacrifice than just sitting somewhere and pressing buttons. Women in today's army still have the PRIVILEGE of not fighting in front-line combat. Women can be trained properly to do this, yet they are not. It's that lack of ultimate sacrifice that I think Rand is referring too.

[@invincibleironman3]

@jontycampbell ..that came from the concept that John Todd introduced, which was the John Galt character was really Phillip Rockefeller. Rockefeller ordered the book to be carried out in 1977, and objectivist epistimology was coded to induce a more self-evolved individual, more concerned with happiness and an objectivist point of view. She was highly charged, politically, and had detractors on both sides as you can see from the interview.

[@rpaxon]

@StephenUK1983 Her 50 year marriage seemed to work out fine. She's a adamant about her philosophy, in that she believes there has never been a worthy counter-argument against it. Whether it's true or not is up to you to judge, but clearly she has the utmost confidence in her philosophy. If you read her writing or watch other appearances of hers on television (check the other Donahue one from a year later) you can see that this attitude is limited to that. I don't believe it's narcissism.

[@SuperColeman88]

Did you see Friedman on his show?

[@shopwreckin]

This is what's missing from today's so called conservatives. Although I don't agree with a lot of Ayn Rand's positions, she is an intellectual powerhouse that articulates her points in a way that makes you think. Even though I'm a progressive, I know the consequences of one political party wielding too much power. I grew up watching intellectual conservatives like William F. Buckley Jr. debate one of my heroes Noam Chomsky. I disagreed with but truly admired them. Religion will ruin the GOP

[@humblejumpify]

Really?! In what universe? Please please enlighten me.

[@lornestein7248]

Ms. Rand's position on the Arabs (specifically The Palestinians) is as valid today as it was in 1979.

[@lisettesvision]

Saying " I used to agree with you, but now I am educated.." IS condescending. Surely I am not the only one who gets that?

[@MrJeanBaguette]

@lisettesvision It is. It's an hypocrite way to say "when I was young and dumb, I thought you were intelligent". Even if i disagree with Ayn rand on those topics, it's a very impolite way to introduce oneself indeed.

[@humblejumpify]

She's very closed minded. The majority of her claims on thus program in 2013 have empirically been proven false.

[@Kjp90]

like what. don't be vague and general.

[@AreopagiticanEco-Nationalist]

I could be wrong but she talks about values, so if you feel your country or civilisation is valuable and worth fighting for, then I imagine that she would not define that as altruism.

[@ChristianSaintSavior]

LOL: some feminists are not going to like Ayn Rand's dislike of the idea of a woman as President of the United States! I personally do not agree with most of Ayn Rand's "philosophy," both stated here and written/stated elsewhere. A lot of it is ultimately "sophism," in one form or another. Anyway, an interesting Interview. Good work, Phil Donahue. Old school talk show format for the win!

[@superlucci]

@tmikeb1717 Isnt it a little strange....that you think that if somebody agrees and reveres somebody....has to agree with EVERY SINGLE POINT that the person has made?

[@DjangoTheCat]

@ryan84160 - Chocolate over vanilla is your opinion but the 'fact' that you need food in order to survive IS an objective fact. In a way, that's the beginning of her moral system. A human is not like an animal that survives by instinct. A human MUST use reason in order to survive. And the more rational you are and in contact with reality, the more you will flourish in life. If these comment boxes allowed 10 pages I could continue from this beginning and show how she gets to Objective values...

[@featheredmusic]

she's totally correct, certain responsibilities require certain abilities

[@dixiejubilee001]

and I thought I was opinionated lol... still, for her age, she was definitely on her game, great stuff. i wish we had something like this show around today, ya know, that intelligently discussed topics and ideas of actual relevance.

[@examinfo]

@eap8317 I respect your comments, but I do not think "her being a product of her time" is an excuse for being so close minded on the "woman as president" issue. Many great thinkers saw "beyond" the times they lived in. Martin Luther King for instance. That is often a sign of greatness; to be able to see past present circumstances to a brighter day ahead. Ayn was a great thinker, don`t get me wrong, but a tad inflexible at times.

[@Alazare1]

She said she disagreed with the pay difference, what are you talking about? I dont agree with her whole philosophy but still i have to defend her here. Theres no one smart as Rand in that audience

[@2natw]

"Men making more than women has nothing to do with discrimination." I'm sorry, yes it does. There are too many women who have no choice but to work as much as possible to avoid becoming broke - for many, they can't choose "flexibility." And "women jobs," like teachers and nurses, should be considered some of the most valuable for society - regardless of who holds the job. Yet these are precisely the jobs that pay among the lowest for the amount of education and training necessary.

[@tipsdaturtle]

I feel the urge to point out that Ms. Rand's desparaging comments about the conflict in Israel was (at least to me) clearly directed at the ones doing the attacking and oppressing? I don't think she said it because she didn't feel the need. As far as my estimation, it was already qualified when she said on numerous occasions during this interview that force and violence are evil. That being said, obviously those stuck in the middle weren't included in her commentary

[@towboattrash01]

By the way, how do you guys justify her predictions coming true about America? Guess everyone saw it coming huh? I'm thinking just the more educated people like Mrs. Rand. Good luck to all you do "gooders", be sure to give all your stuff to the local criminal when it all goes to pieces, wouldn't want you to feel guilty about not helping the ones who don't want to work.

[@kelsirful]

Please explain, you must have evidence to back up an argument

[@jassenjj]

So, don't you think it's strange to argue if she's intelligent or why she reacted to that girl? Both this and the theatrical interviewer are irrelevant to the question what Ayn's philosophy is and if she's right or not (or something in between). If the non essential aspects of this interview is so important - do you think you could be able to stay so far from loosing self-control if all those mixed reactions: hate, sympathy, sarcasm... were directed toward you?

[@2natw]

Well, I certainly try not to make assumptions - and no matter how long you live, you shouldn't make assumptions. But of course, all of my opinions could change the longer I live...

[@towboattrash01]

You people defending that woman who took a jab at her are more apparent than a squeaky clean window. She deserved what she got. "but after I became more educated"...c'mon people. If someone said that about a belief you held strongly, you'd probably ball up and cry about it. Or want someone to come to your defense because you've been taught to bow down. Not her! She jumped right into that girls a**. Made me proud of the ol girl.

[@peaco1000]

This is the craziest talk show I have ever seen. Its set up like a boxing ring in Las Vegas but with a shrivelled old woman in the spotlight instead of a massive black man. And what is with Donohue? He almost climbs on her and treats her like a 3 year old then he goes off on her all of a sudden. Absolutely crazy.

[@humblejumpify]

Perhaps ...but consider the fact that if it weren't for deregulation, Enron would not have been able to use mark-to-market book keeping in conjunction with Hypothetical Future Value (H.F.V.) not to mention Fastow's Structured Finance--None of these fallacious practices were curtailed and in the end average Joe investors lost everything. Let us never forget that Kenneth Lay was the main advocate for energy deregulation. I definitely agree that the federal government is in bed with corporations.

[@Flighn]

Donahue know how to run a talk show. Handling this woman, must have been like handling a lion.

[@QuartuvLarry]

Such as?

[@2natw]

....but that's the point. Men still make more than women. That gap exists. The problem is cultural roles for men and women differ, this is in part why we have the resulting gap - "women" jobs pay less than "men" jobs. And there have been many instances in which women have simply been paid less than men, Lilly Ledbetter being a famous case.

[@brianmorgan2725]

fox news actually have a love/hate relationship with him. he actually knows how to go on fox news and put o'reilly and hannitty in their place like nobody else can. he is an unabashed liberal. he is also the father of modern day talk shows (oprah, maury, springer, etc.) they all learned from him. he retired in the mid-90s when the format kept getting dumber. he is really a living legend.

[@Leitilumo]

Why are they so adamant at fighting around her?

[@DjangoTheCat]

@ryan84160 - Rand shows that moral values are Objective but it can't be explained in this short comment format. Most people are searching for the answers to these questions of morality and there are hundreds of opinions. Ayn Rand didn't invent morality, she just discovered a proper code of values and proves them to be Objective. I can't prove in 500 characters what she takes a book to prove. I told you what book to get if you are interested. If not then good luck on your search for answers : )

[@thecaster2]

Something wrong with loving yourself?

[@pgplaysvidya]

we'll never know. But her position on the 'arabian' (not all arabs are moslem) culture is the basis for her argument. I would love to see her take on the idea of self defense - I see Iran acting in self defense against illegitimate force, and thus their actions cannot be measured as moral.

[@PatrioticGlory]

Actually, they've been proven 100% correct.

[@invincibleironman3]

@bootiack , and he'd essentially say what he said to Bill O'Reilly. "You dont scare me, Billy! You're a bully!"

[@2natw]

This is the problem of Ms. Rand - she says humans are rational (which is not a new idea at all). All she did was take this idea and apply it to preserving Capitalism. Pretty clearly, all humans are irrational. Their behavior can be highly predictable based on history and particularly biology, but it rarely, if ever, follows any kind of "logic." Which is why the wage gap exists, and it is why Capitalism is an impractical system, which harms nearly everyone involved.

[@lessiv]

@odunne2 A painting is one special good, the person who has it is a monopoly somehow. In a market, monopolies offer less goods and charge a higher price. People will try to get around raw materials and the monopoly will die. The market always find a way

[@luceean]

@The727stpete727 No, I just will not let you get the last word. I never said I have a problem with defending my own believes. You seem to because when I disagreed with you, you when on the attack.

[@hellgod666]

I wounder what she would have thought of Palin and Hillary

[@invincibleironman3]

@Textra1 ..he's got an opinion and defended the group that were being unceremoniously humiliated by her "primative savages" take. Rand's blunt personality isn't meant for a public audience needing a balanced perspective, and Donahue graciously afforded that.

[@26Francis92]

more or less spot on throughout, then it all falls apart at the end...

[@Dactylus]

@albygoesdumb Don't mischaracterize the audience's disapproval... Ayn Rand was saying verbatim that women are not as qualified to lead as men in certain positions - it wasn't that she would not vote "merely" based on the gender. She would not vote because of the properties resulting from the gender. I agree with her to a very large extent - however, you must remember that many people deny that there are substantive differences between men and women in this way.

[@CincinnatusUSA]

Donahue was simply the best there has ever been at this format--celebrities, intellectuals, even Rand liked him.

[@Sivels]

I think most people's IQ were schockingly lower than today

[@shankadank4321]

I agree 100%! I've been doing the exact same! Can't see what she has done wrong, people describe her as if she was Hitler...

[@luceean]

@lisettesvision I don't believe she was insulting her BUT rather as she was growing up she believed her but as she got older and uncountered other views she changed her views. Ms. Rand is and was VERY arrogant because you could NEVER question her and her believes. The basis's for that is listening to her interviews. She is a GREAT writer but when she opens her mouth all the intelligence leaves her. If for you think that she was insulting then she she be used to it.

[@Tasadaru]

If you like Ayn Rand, you'll most likely like the youtube videos from Peter Schiff and G. Edward Griffin.

[@chythm]

That is Rand's argument, but I think it is inconsistent with modern cognitive psychology, which supposes that physical gender and gender identity are different things. A physical woman with a masculine-leaning gender identity (from Rand's gender roles) could act the hero. This is why (along with homosexuality), ARI and modern Objectivist's don't harp on about these old ideas much -- they are inconsistent with modern cognitive theory.

[@unfortunatebeam]

If she believes that she is dead wrong. Men deal in hero worship just as much if not more so than women do. The evidence is everywhere. Also, men have, in a way, always revered and worshiped women just for being the way the are/were. The didn't do that for men unlesss the men did something to earn the worship.

[@SavedbyJaco]

@mikemat3307 Well, she never mentioned the fed verbatim, but what's she said already about how government involvement in the economy causes problems, as well as another interview where she wished there was a state and market separation as well as church and state, would seem to make it clear how she feels about it. As for Israel, I think she was saying if she had to choose a side. Or perhaps that she's more in favor of Israel, but I don't think she necessarily said we should be involved.

[@princessjw1977]

@Rime247 The role of the president is to declare war if necessary, which means people will die. I, as a woman, would not like to contemplate doing this job, even if it were a necessarty evil. Therefore, I would be at a disadvantage when trying to fulfill this commitment, because of my nurturing instinct. I did not say we could not do the job, as most assuredly we can. However, I feel that my nurture instinct may not relegate our country's best interests at that particular time.

[@DjangoTheCat]

@ryan84160 - Show me a true moral value that is NOT Objective and then you can call it nonsense. By the way, if you haven't read 'Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand' then you will not know what she is talking about. Her philosophy defines an Objective code of values and why a human being needs to have values. Then it shows you how to put them into the context of a human life and the requirements that need to be met in order to live life to your full potential. Read it, you might like it.

[@duezeri1968]

I think elevating the individual and his greed above charity and altruism is some form of egoism. It seems like a mental illness to me. Notice I said "seems". I don't really think Rand is mentally ill but her promotion of these warped ideas reminds me of a great Hitchcock movie called "Rope". Bear with me here... Jimmy Stewart plays a professor with some radical ideas (close to Hitler: kill the weak, etc). When two students actually take his ideas to heart and kill someone... Continued below