Friedman and Sowell on Equality

Milton Friedman gives his brilliant assessment of equality in the context of inherited wealth. Thomas Sowell heatedly debates Frances Fox Piven, of 'Cloward-Piven Strategy' fame, on equality of opportunity versus equality of results.
The 'Cloward-Piven Strategy':
"First proposed in 1966 and named after Columbia University sociologists Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven, the "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse."
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[@eldexxo]

"like most people, i have never seen a pollster" The guy's a genius :D

[@BorreLira]

"How to make a socialist go mad" Sowell level.

[@jessejive117]

As if a poll determines what policy prescriptions are most effective as a solution lol And then they butcher the actually results of the poll as it is. Omitting info, etc.

[@MIAcane23]

Pardon my ignorance, but I don't understand what he means by that. Could you please explain it to me? I've been trying to figure it out for a while now, but it just went over my head (along with many other things that originate from this brilliant man lol)

[@krys8494]

MIAcane23 it as it is said...he has never seen someone conducting a poll...only sees that it has been done lol like most of us

[@thedfferencetab1977]

krys powerful. (As I take it) that he would need to evaluate the “pollster” to see what their biases are to determine if their poll is actually just) It’s similar to the Fish tree climbing sentiment.

[@Koldeman]

I'm full-blooded Native American and it drives me nuts how people get so angry about the moniker for the Washington Redskins on our behalf. It's almost more racist to be upset FOR us. This is exactly the problem Dr. Sowell has illustrated. Sowell is an intellectual giant. I love how Friedman chuckles to the side. YES- Conservative Native Americans exist.

[@Mharriscreations]

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the local tribes that gave the blessing and endorsement for the team being called The Redskins?

[@huevosconchorizo8404]

You tell'em bro!

[@russellbarber5001]

Thats ashame, they are now officially changing the name now in July 13, 2020! It was bound to happen I just wish it wasnt in my generation. I stand with u my Native American brother💯🙏🇺🇸

[@russellbarber5001]

@smoosh smoosh brah SMH... Im Black with some Native Indian blood so what are talking about. And even if I were white, asian, or hispanic I would still call him my bother! We are ALL1 Race, 1 Nation, UNDER GOD!

[@russellbarber5001]

@Bobby Brady Who the hec u calling an idiot! Call this number and say it to my face. .. 6108003507. Im waiting to hear u. How u gonna call me a racist cuz I said Im black mixed with Native American? Im aware of my ancestry and my nationally. Im a proud young Christian Conservative American so what are u talking bout... It people like u who mess it up for the rest of us true patriots. ... P.s Im still waiting chump. P.s.s Jesus Loves u and so does i. But im still wating...

[@gooble69]

"It's not a question of what Black people chose to do, it's what you chose to put in the mouths of Black people, it's what you choose to project." 40 year later and we still have the same problem...

[@ryebr3ad]

For instance, insisting that the 'b' in black needs to be capitalized, therefore homogenizing black people under one label

[@asoncalledvoonch2210]

Yep. Only it's worse because our society is so dumbed down and lied to more than it was 40 or 50 years ago

[@alexanderruchkov7629]

@No Name lol, didnt get the irony still liked it

[@AWO4me]

Thomas Sowell is simply brilliant. His book Basic Economics should be in every classroom.

[@gurpchirp]

just finished it tonight. easily in the top 5 most eye-opening, mind-changing books i've read.

[@30minutesLess]

I was considering purchasing it this post has sent me to do so

[@xackman2407]

@@gurpchirp what are the remaining 4?

[@gurpchirp]

​@@xackman2407 How the Mind Works -Steven Pinker Scale- Geoffrey West The Righteous Mind- Jonathan Haidt Guns Germs and Steel- Jared Diamond

[@xackman2407]

@@gurpchirp thanx for replying

[@ronaldh6466]

Thomas Sowell went hard back in the day.

[@WindTunnelRacing]

Never ever seen him This mad. Even on the firing line he got antsy, but he was ready to Stand Up here haha. And he's Always so happy and calm. Tells you How much he feels correct about this. When he says "Good.." I Lose it hahahaha

[@gregconway736]

"Im not tough. Life is tough." Thomas Sowell.

[@tha1ne]

thomas sowell kicking ass and taking names!

[@snehaparashar6377]

"Intellectuals were not in that protest movement, black people were in that protest movement" Ummm excuse me Miss????

[@josholdham1033]

Didn’t even notice that line. Cringe!

[@jonathankr]

Don't think she meant it like that.

[@jcyt0511]

I wonder if it's the same brand shoe purchased at K-Mart that her, Biden et al out in their own mouths.

[@oneepie]

Not surprising. She founded a plan with her husband to overwhelm the welfare state. The plan was to impoverish more minorities and have them seek assistance and force a prototype of universal income. Like many of her ilk she just views blacks and others as ends to a mean.

[@larkydozer]

Thomas Sowell is a national treasure. It was sad to see how little attention the media gave to Friedman's passing. I hope Sowell sticks around 'til he's 100!

[@gen2917]

“ …like most people, I have NEVER seen a pollster.” - Thomas Sowell Absolutely BRILLIANT 👏🏼

[@redsox1006]

Whoa I have never seen Thomas Sowell that worked up! And that's not even that worked up!

[@maristsp]

The tragedy is that Sowell is more of a hero amongst white conservatives than blacks. If only blacks held the same admiration for Thomas Sowell as they do for Al Sharpton, Malcolm X or even MLK, they would be much better off in America today.

[@davidparkes1391]

Josh Schwartz facts!!

[@MrSilus2000]

If blacks (generally speaking) held real admiration for Malcolm X then they wouldn't continuously vote Democrat or look to the government at all to solve their problems. That was contrary to everything he stood for.

[@MrSilus2000]

Dennis Boyd Black folks vote 95% Democrat every year. They aren't thinking for themselves. The white liberal has seduced the black mind, as Malcolm X warned.

[@dwbkmj]

Silus That doesn't prove anything but your own biases.

[@MrSilus2000]

Dennis Boyd It also proves that black folks will vote for Democrats regardless of what they do for them. That's basically being a slave and not thinking for yourself.

[@billmelater6470]

Savage. Sowell is a force to be reckoned with and we need him now more than ever.

[@johnomara849]

A young rambunctious Thomas Sowell. I love it.

[@thebestSteven]

(He's around 50years old here. I know, he aged better than most)

[@moulieswaraprasad9567]

"It was you who chose to express it, damn it" Awesome way to wordslap a leftist by Sowell!!!

[@deathbycognitivedissonance5036]

You done pissed off the most composed and ever keeled intellectual ever known. Concede the argument and apologize. Lol

[@markusmatthew7044]

"Nahhhh!" Lol never seen Thomas react before. Lol

[@boxant]

"Like most people, I have never seen a pollster." A+

[@gorecassady1632]

Hey!

[@bentuber1]

Thomas Sowell. Why is this man not known internationally? Genius!! One of the greatest people to walk the face of the Earth.

[@hamzamohamed6748]

Forget the debate. Look how respectful everyone is, how great everyone is dressed and their posture. I wish I was born in this era.

[@brianrajala7671]

Thomas Sowell, national treasure and wealth of common sense!

[@Drchainsaw77]

Milton Friedman's _Free to Choose_ series, along with James Burke's _Connections_ should be required viewing and understanding for every sophomore in high school.

[@mrurapidtesting1152]

"Like most people I have never seen a pollster". You tell her Mr. Sowell.

[@danielsin5563]

Equality of Outcome as a result of equality of opportunity has already been proven wrong. If any of you have listened to Dr. Peterson, he makes clear of the point that experiments with egalitarian industrial societies have shown that equal opportunities for both males and females do not lead to equal results but rather a much greater reality of differences in terms of occupations.

[@stewhooey1294]

I don't think she's necessarily espousing equality of outcome- just conditions that can lead to equality of opportunity (access to education,etc) - I think those conditions are now in place, but they certainly weren't in the 50's- thus the need to protest at that time.

[@WoefulPie]

@@stewhooey1294 She was trying to draw a false correlation between the two. And failed, like they always do when talking to a person of intelligence and not ideology. Mr. Sowell said it as well as anyone can, human nature is too diverse and varied to achieve equal outcomes without first stripping away most if not all personal liberties. And reality repeatedly bears him out on this point, and will continue to do so.

[@jn6305]

Stew Hooey the left does though - they don’t see the difference because they assume outcomes will be equal when opportunity is. This is the common message of “egalitarianism” in the left. Peterson’s interview with Cathy Newman exposed this.

[@willharriman1881]

Continuing multigenerational race discrimination against Black Americans is one of the core features of the white American system! Vast, massive damage from white racism is the central cause of nearly all nearly ALL BLACK FAILURES!

[@scottshanahan3827]

At :27 when Friedman showed up in the window I cracked up.

[@dericksuapaia]

“If you look at the leadership in the black...” yeah, I definitely felt she forgot that she was talking to a black man. And that black man was, Thomas Sowell.

[@TeaParty1776]

How can Sowell be black? Hes not Leftist!

[@dericksuapaia]

@@TeaParty1776 are you basing someone’s skin color and culture off a ideology?

[@TeaParty1776]

@@dericksuapaia SARCASM!!!!!

[@rickbruner]

I also love this man. I'm a WASP and to hear a black man speak who has risen above racist and economic scapegoats of victimization is truly inspiring. He needs no one's help - least of all the government's... and because of that, I cannot help but love him. Even more remarkable is that he was speaking this truth 30 years ago in times when racism and discrimination were far more rampant than they are today. Sadly, we now go backwards as a society as political correctness to the nth degree

[@RFM-]

I find both of these MEN to be AMAZING. I could listen to both of them ALL DAY.

[@kev3d]

I am reminded of the short story "Harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut, in which equality is achieved through the deliberate handicapping of the more talented members of society. Thinkers have ringers in their ears which break their concentration, the handsome are disfigured, the graceful forced to wear weights and bonds. All in the name of fairness. Its quite a good, if depressing, story.

[@perspectiveiseverything1694]

Sounds like what is happening today. Ringers- unlimited digital wifi & social media distractions causing brain fog, addiction, & mental/emotional impairment. Disfigurement - fillers, implants, surgeries, & butchering of the young. Weights & bonds- obesity & society inflicted illnesses that disable.

[@niconesta8566]

Amazing how far ahead he was at this point in time. If only his pov was taught widespread decades ago.

[@stupididiot3467]

This guys a legend. Untouchable in debates and comes back with the best retorts. I wish he'd live forever.

[@TsarOfRuss]

Oh noooo woman!!! you choose the wrong person to argue with !!! not Thomas Sowell, you will be ruined !!!!

[@5277088]

She’s Jewish

[@281cu6]

@@5277088 Why does religious beliefs matter in this instance?

[@goodneighbourgabe2723]

that's my boy

[@DrSnowglobes]

Love me some swaggy Thomas Sowell. That body reposition after the pollster quip was pure bliss. 👑

[@goPistons06]

it is such a pleasure to watch these two men, intelligent and rational men. more people should listen to them. i think they make a kick-ass duo.

[@stumac869]

Good parenting is probably the most important part of the equation in respect to success. Why do the left try to bring everybody down to the level of the worst parenting. We need to help people born at the bottom to reach the same level as those at the top, not the reverse.

[@zoechessa5698]

I think you have a misinterpretation of equal opportunity vs equal outcome

[@idkdamn978]

It's easier to villify the top because there are so few. Claiming to benefit the poor brings in votes and bleeding hearts across the country

[@lukeleonard2801]

Thomas Sowell is such a great man

[@avinashjagdeo]

Seems like the age of this level of intellectual discourse is over without intellectual heavyweights like Sowell and Friedman debating anymore.

[@TeaParty1776]

Listen to intellectuals from the Ayn Rand Institute, eg, Yaron Brook, Alex Epstein.

[@BrownLaundry]

“Most people resent one, but not the other”; smash cut to 2020 and we have full spectrum resentment. Smh

[@SciVias917]

Something hilarious to me in the image of Milton peering in through the window.

[@scottshanahan3827]

I just made a similar comment. I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that

[@rayhanes1347]

Remember what Malcolm X said about white liberals and if you don't remember you need to go find out or refresh.

[@RFM-]

I remember.........

[@WoefulPie]

Paraphrased: The white conservative is a growling wolf, the white liberal a smiling fox. And they'll both eat you. Malcolm X was a bigoted fear monger and pseudo-intellectual, not worth quoting or remembering.

[@davidolson8537]

Friedman completely overlooks the possibility and even likelihood that many children have great talent that goes undiscovered for lack of opportunity, awareness, and encouragement.

[@richcook2007]

That is a function of the family. Why families are necessary.

[@brainwashingdetergent4322]

Where are these debaters today?

[@moa3810]

Jerry Springer

[@GuaraldiGuy]

I wish that I were as smart as Thomas Sowell. Nothing but wisdom ever flows from his lips and his pen. I loved that he was so passionate about this.

[@ksasaami]

I wish I was a student this great intellectual

[@fergusbyett8088]

It's a shame the conversation got derailed on something of a technicality at the end - she raised a fair point about the viability of equal opportunity being dependent on people starting from a somewhat comparable place. When some kids go to school without lunch, and others have all kinds of access to expensive extra-curricular activities, this can hardly be said to be a society of equal opportunity. It would have been interesting to hear Sowell's response to this.

[@jimgallagher5902]

Mr. Sowell is WONDERFUL!!! I LOVE IT when he tears down the idiocies of know nothings.

[@DavidPerez-oj2dv]

IT'S NEVER ABOUT RACE IT'S ABOUT HOW YOUR RAISED

[@robrick9361]

*SOWELL INTENSIFIES*

[@Wuisini]

Man I just came across Thomas Sowell and man is he a great. More people should study and watch content from him. He doesn’t pull any punches.

[@okayillgonow]

"You expressed it, damn it~!" XD

[@frankscarborough1428]

Two great men! Sowell and Friedman.

[@yadirbear]

4:40 You see Sowell swing his arm at the lady.

[@TruGank]

That's an old school New Yorker hand gesture for "Da fuck outta here..."

[@peterfitzpatrick7032]

Thats no lady... thats a leftist feminazi.. 🙄😂

[@peterfitzpatrick7032]

Thats no lady... thats a leftist feminazi.. 🙄😂

[@johnrobie9694]

As Friedman said, a society that puts more importance on equal outcomes than individual freedom; will end up with neither. And as Sowell said, individuals are not even equal to themselves throughout their lifetime; let alone others.

[@Kellyg218]

yeah go play that viola on the subway see how far that talent takes ya....maybe to the next happy meal.

[@AJAX556]

Be nice if there were debates like this today.

[@sheldonbass4238]

I love the plethora of mike drop moments from both Friedman and Sowell. The rationale expounded by most elitist psuedo-intellectuals is nothing but a contrived, self-percieved intellectual superiority, and when true reason that conforms to reality is presented to them, it goes right over their heads. Their arguments become pure rhetoric with no substantive answers to the issues they wrongly perceive.

[@jackooboy1]

The difference between someone who is just given money, vs. being bought a business, vs. being bought an education is that the later two add value to society, while the first one doesn't...

[@selmergrunon]

you can not inhereted talent you have to work at it all you need is : lessons.supporting parents,money,a room to practice,lessons,the right inveroment,time to practice,.ect ect-outliers

[@dynamicflashy]

Mozart was literally one guy. A timeless genius. Was his mother or father also timeless geniuses? Did all whom were related to him (and thus shared an element of his DNA) rise to Mozart's level of musical genius? Genius is, by definition, exceptional.

[@matepesut]

"You can not inherit talent," Clearly some are developed. You inherited a talent in being a dumbass on the internet, when it was not present during the time of your parents.

[@BernardBrunu1]

There are alot of lazy talented people

[@wowsa0]

There is one crucial ethical difference between the inheritance of talent and the inheritance of wealth. Inheritance of talent is a fact of life, inheritance of wealth is something society chooses to perform.

[@teteudeu]

@wowsa0 Being able to handle having lots of money is a skill that rich parents can teach their children.

[@yvesgomes]

And here I was thinking I was smart for figuring out the flipped point of view of whether parents should be prevented from spending money on their children's future, instead of spending it on shallower things. I was just about 40 years late. -_-

[@brenttaylordotus]

Oh that’s awesome I’ve never seen him fired up like that. Excellent closing comment by the way.

[@MrLanum]

@5:26 “like most people I have never seen a pollster” 2022… still true

[@Mbsmoothe]

@jimberkt thats true when you differenciate the two but what Dr. Freidman was pointing out is from an ethical point of view, why is it seen as acceptable for people to exploit talent, but frowned upon for people to exploit the fact that they are born into a family business or the opportunity for a good education? the students were able to hone their musical talent (from family and genetics) which is more virtuous then other people who learn skills to make money from their family and wealth.

[@Goodatconnect4]

@Mike10four I don't think that Jefferson was talking about all life when he mentioned those rights (after all, he used the word "Men" meaning mankind). How do you define "happiness"? Depression- as I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong, you've linked happiness with survival. If the depressed one survives, then he is happy. Of course the converse would be: if one is happy, then they survive; but the same can be said for those who are sad and angry- they survive as well.

[@religionisatragedy8537]

Never thought I would see Thomas Soul curse and anger, that was cool to see

[@ad80ad]

- Give less wealthy people the possibility to build their own wealth helping them to develop their skills - not "punish" people on the top, but making people on the top a driving force to raise (and not to crush) less fortunate people.

[@brucefetter]

A profitable degree, in terms of pure income, does point toward the sciences (although less and less). But as a teacher of economics, and as someone with a higher income, I am continually reminded that utility and satisfaction are not rising with income. This is also a fact that can be looked up.

[@GorgonDrageil]

At first, I thought Sowell was holding a smart phone at 4:42 👀 lol.

[@rumco]

Wow, Thomas was really at it :) Good man.

[@researchsiempre]

@chapaev36 how do you 'inherit talent' (?) talent is developed through practice. you can inherit money and good looks, but talent? one actually has to work/practice/develop talent.

[@noiphetso1]

Now that Mr. Sowell has mentioned it, I too have never seen or talk to a pollster but sure have heard and seen many polls.

[@Frankcapasso]

Two of the best Minds ever

[@kevchu8045]

@seiferganon Agreed. I find that Milton's original argument of talent and wealth at first seemed to make sense. However, I think one has to listen more than once in order to understand the flaw in his statement. It all goes to show that one must think for themselves and not absorb every bit of information from even the most influential speakers.

[@Questfortruth86]

This woman's argument is truly brilliant. If you're born poor, you are poor, it's your nature; the fact that you're human is merely accidental. Thus, we must steal from those who are not 'naturally poor' and give it to those who are 'naturally poor.' But if they're naturally poor, what good will other people's money do for them? The task seems self-defeating, paradoxical.

[@jimberkt]

@royharmon4 he says "there is no difference between musical talent and other forms of property" if you make the assumption that musical talent is somehow a form of property it is an unlimited intangible property. So there is a difference in the sense that you could easily share out that "property" many people eg teaching a class of 10 doesnt require more or less musical talent than a class of 20, but you cant share out wealth in the same way.

[@Goodatconnect4]

@Mike10four That makes sense. Prepare yourself: Unlimited characters means not only unlimited response, but unlimited questioning! One philosophy, of the Founder's philosophy, will have to have sway: yours, mine, or even a new one which we establish through our impending discussion! Just as you expect nothing short of my questioning your philosophy, I expect nothing short of the same with respect to mine. :D

[@philosopher1a]

If you liked this you have to watch the whole debate. the link is in the description . Milton Friedman asks Fox pivan atleast 9 times what system of government/market is better than the free market.. she equivocates she NEVER answers.. I think it's worth watching the whole thing less than a hour...

[@avaition321]

Inheritance of talent is no different from other forms of inheritance of money, bonds, stocks, etc

[@MrNaterangel]

I looked up "brilliant", and Sowell's photo came up.

[@Tyrant_13]

@jasontkennedy I agree that society improves as poverty is reduced. The question always was what was the best way to reduce it. Putting the gov't in charge of comprehending the price system is the worst possible solution at increasing output. If you spent more time reading the works of Austrian economists like Henry Hazlitt or Milton Friedman, you'd see the infinite wisdom in the free market's spontaneous arrangement of costs of production, prices, and profits to allocate scarce

[@dwaynejoyce1357]

I love Thomas passion and reasoned arguments he is so right as a middle aged white man from Australia I've watched him from afar with admiration He is truly one of the great intellects of the 21st century. By the way that women had the hots for Tom. He was a fine rooster back in the day

[@ad80ad]

@gregvs3 Not only, but regarding INHERITANCE of money, if someone is not responsible of his/her own wealth like a child, I agree that is practically not different than talent, but only for the child. The parents has total ethical responsibility regarding the money they gave to their children.

[@jimberkt]

@Mbsmoothie well there are some fundamental issues with the concept of ownership of property such as land, but apart from that my point was that the musician can effectively pass his skill on to as many people as he wants without diminishing the resource whereas the rich man can only divide up his resource in a limited way eg if he only has $1000 he cant give each of his five sons $1000. Wasnt really talking about the ethics of being born into wealth.

[@JakeSweeper]

Talent, like inherited monetary wealth, are great if you have them. But it's a far greater gift to teach your kids the value of learning skills needed to survive/succeed and cultivate the drive necessary to not only go get those skills, but to apply them in practice. Doesn't matter if they want to have a blue-collar job or be a concert musician, the process is still the same; need to learn the skills to do the job and the drive to hone those to mastery, (not to mention the fact they need to continually practice and learn).

[@bernardqblack]

Astounding how they KNEW then what was happening and what would happen....and their arguments havent changed... Because its based on data, fact a and reality, not feelings.

[@Damien2084]

Thomas Picketty is so well yeah !

[@yavor05]

I have to disagree with Prof. Friedman on talent being morally the same as wealth. Talent can give you many rewards and advantages in a society that acknowledges it (a society that values merit). Yet wealth in the form of bonds, real estate, money, etc. (wealth as we usually think of it) can provide many more advantages than talent. Wealth is the kind of thing that can and usually buys political power, social distinction, quality education, better healthcare and a range of other social goods. Hardly anyone would give someone a high position in a political party because of his talent as a footballer or a musician. With material wealth things are very different. As to the ideal solution for the problem of equality of opportunities, I agree with Prof. Friedman that it is rather a complex problem we are facing, that will not be solved with simplistic solutions such as simply redistributing wealth. For a good study of this issue, check Michael Walzer's "Spheres of Justice".

[@WessGrumble]

Buying political power is only lucrative when the government has enough power to change things to your advantage. That's why real capitalists want the government to be as small as possible, with limited authority. Don't confuse this with anarchy though. There has to be a framework in which to operate.

[@BUFU1610]

@@WessGrumble Another very big difference is that skill does not automatically develop from talent, money does automatically create more money in an interest-based financial system.

[@dontrotter1099]

I dont know why google is sending me these but i will respond. My dad was born a poor white man in Arkansas. From a poor but sufficient family. He moved away and through hard work made himself a millionaire twice! What made him successful? the drive to do better and achieve. Most people in america can still do this, as long as the government keeps their socialist driven crap out of the way. Politicians are elected by the majority and we think they will continue on that path of the majority. But once elected, they head off on their own path and decide what ever interest group pays them to do. Time for change people. Stand up in this fight we have going right now and be heard. And more especially, stand up and make sure the elected do what t hey are put there for. That means dogging their every step.

[@DRS659]

As someone opposed who understands it necessary to hear both sides, I'd recommend any proponent interested in this dialog to check out John Ralston Saul and his material on tyrannical meritocracy

[@LordLewsTheDragon]

Sowell was such a fucking Chad... Damn I wish we had these types of debates still happening in the public square. But the problem today is that people on the right have given up with acquiring academic credentials and the people on the left refuse to discuss substantive issues with a) people without credentials and b) people with whom they disagree.

[@ad80ad]

Regarding inheritance of money, yes I can agree that it could be always "fair", even if the parents of the "heir" are corrupted or criminals. As a matter of fact an "heir" not always knows from where his or her wealth come but nonetheless this is a delicate matter. If someone have more wealth than another, the responsibility is ALWAYS by humans, and this can be more or less honest. If someone has more talent than another is ALWAYS nature or God: it not depends from us. That's REALLY different.

[@DoubleGauss]

Sowell and Friedman.. what an intellectual feast. Wish Buckley were in it too.

[@rayyf69]

@13otany13ay Perhaps a better way to phrase the question would be how do you extract the preferences of society. How do you determine what the society desires?

[@fede2]

there *is* a distinction between wealth and talent. wealth refers to material conditions or resources that constitute capital human needs for survival. talent, in this regard, is nowhere near the same ball park. this is why framing these needs in terms of rights is dubious, insofar as it implies exclusivity.

[@Goodatconnect4]

@kommon12Cents That is material equality. What we (had) in the United States was equality in liberty. "All men are CREATED equal" All are born legally equal; the burden of using his capabilities and facilities to the legal maximum, is left with the individual to exercise or not. If someone chooses to not exercise his abilities, then that is his choice: as it should be. Not to disagree with your original point!

[@kylorenkardashian79]

0:41 those music kids didn't inherit talent. they had private music lessons.

[@Mike10four]

@Goodatconnect4 Locke did not write our Declaration! Jefferson did and he clearly stated: “the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God … We hold these truths to be self-evident … pursuit of Happiness.” Not all of our founders were philosophers. Take Benjamin Franklin for instance, he was not a philosopher he was a scientist.

[@JimmyJump007]

Sowell and Friedman are both brilliant men.

[@jasontkennedy]

That IS probably the point where we differ. Private charity has provided adequate mass transit systems, healthcare, education systems and housing about as well as water guns work as murder weapons. Its tragically idyllic to think at any point in history that the well off provided charity adequate to meet the needs of children. By "we" I don't mean government specifically, but historically its governments usage of taxes that provided the sort of welfare I needed 4 an equality of opportunity.

[@emearsful]

He said that he was talking about every poll that's ever been taken ("Wherever polls have been taken"). And why would Piven accuse Sowell of personally manipulating the pollsters? You're absurd.

[@Deedeedee214]

Here is the co-author of the Cloward-Piven strategy, which has been eroding us for over 50 years.