Secrets of the Ledge: An Advanced Guide to TAS Ledgedash Inputs in SSBM

[@daladex]

every fox is about to come out of quarantine with 16 galint ledgedashes

[@Faulheit]

can we talk about the production quality tho? its impressive how well hax writes scripts

[@Faulheit]

@itz_me truee

[@Zonda1996]

Mans has been writing thesis’ on melee for a decade, so no surprise his script is so eloquent.

[@shoutxv]

Yeah he should write porn

[@plaguedfrost1753]

alhl ioa Yeah bitch, you like that JV5!

[@juliosnap]

Except he mispronounces "airborne" as "airBORNE"

[@jchunter21]

Hax do be lecturing people about this in public restrooms

[@michaelcastelpoggi1735]

This feeds a deep hunger for learning intricate things about melee. The year really is 2020

[@shoutxv]

Negative reply

[@MarcoDToon]

But soon it will be 20FF

[@suntzu6122]

Which frame does ness grab ledge?

[@RB92.]

i cant believe that hax saved melee again

[@IntySSBM]

As Aziz was explaining how it's easier to ledgedash on BF than FD, I could literally feel my ledgedash muscle memory between the two stages, and realized I've been compensating with an appropriate stick angle all this time without consciously choosing to do so. Fucking godlike video.

[@sdw-hv5ko]

But before we can discuss optimal ECB selection, we need to talk about parallel universes

[@Harry-McKenzie]

here you go kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZDdeaqBq8mckNU

[@sdw-hv5ko]

@@Harry-McKenzie lmao love the vsauce reference

[@shoutxv]

Right I keep switching dimensions where the timings are different

[@Yamulo]

Is this a reference to the 1/2 a press m64 video?

[@sdw-hv5ko]

@@Yamulo yah

[@JasonPegis]

“Hey Hax$, what are you going to do during the pandemic?” His gaze rises from the CRT into the enigmatic void of this thoughts and understanding of decades of complex mechanics. He turns his head slightly to acknowledge your presence and declares, “Something that needs to be done.”

[@joeschmoe4376]

18 minute video on ledgedashing, papa bless

[@turndownforwalt]

This is very good content

[@kilroy89]

Reminds me of that video M2K talks about ledgedashing. He mentioned that its often easier to ledge dash after regrabing ledge first, but didnt explain why. That ECB stuff is nuts. I remember someone made. Video recently about Cpt falcon various colors having different ECB values

[@benjensen7251]

Yeah, I remember that! Melee is nuts lol. It was AsumSaus's "High Tier Oddities" in case anyone is curious: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZDcqmyvZ5qjhac

[@trilokshahi9361]

I remember getting this lecture in person lmao.

[@pippincovington1348]

How did u hide your erection?

[@Nitro1396]

Pippin Covington He was supposed to hide it???

[@saatvikpalli7958]

It's insane, even after almost 20 years, that we're still finding more.

[@charlona8173]

This has been known for some years now, that’s why most top fox players refresh their Ecb on the ledge before ledgedashing ;)

[@GimR]

This video is sick!

[@23kl104]

I don't even play melee.. but I love hearing a nerd talk thoroughly about his investigations

[@Project1182]

If you even have the slightest bit of interest in playing this game go for it. I just started playing like a year ago and it's everything i thought it would be. Wish i started sooner.

[@shoutxv]

This is beyond little you and I my small friend this is greater than all of us and now that you're in theirs no going back

[@23kl104]

@@Project1182 I do, however for the moment I enjoy just being a spectator :)

[@Rael0505]

@@Project1182 I started a year ago too. It's amazing how much I've learned in one year! Set up netplay and play people!

[@NastyKugogo]

@@Project1182 right now learnong melee is a lot easier and faster

[@EvilApple567]

The pacing in this is better than previous vids, thanks for apparently taking feedback on that. Also just a side note: if you use back to drop from ledge for ledgedashes with Fox and are trying to get your best ECB with double jump to ledge, on FD if you use a full back input you'll get a Doraki walljump and probably die.

[@thomaskeyser294]

I wish anyone and everyone who thinks melee is a "joke" of a fighting game would watch videos like this to see how hard melee players work and optimize their game, and see how intricate it really is

[@Rom0.5]

I love how Melee competition is so similar to speedrunning in its mindset. The idea of using this in a 1v1 is actually nuts, we tend to forget it as we are almost used to that kind of dedication and incredible level from the players but man that's incredible. Great content, I'm blown away by the quality of your content.

[@drakoz254]

This is an unbelievably well-made video. Clear, consise, complete. Keep it up Hax!

[@kumotx6175]

the quality of this video is insane. melee is so sick.

[@dmh111]

11:40 hax calls fox box

[@jehutyinp]

extremely descriptive and precise with what your talking about i love it! keep it up

[@uvsvdu]

did you look into using cstick back to drop from the ledge? it seems like you can get full forward jump trajectory, would that be better? i use claw to do this, gets very deep nairs onto the stage from ledge with falcon.

[@falcoisaniceguy5191]

I also use c-stick back

[@felixdoyon6546]

uvsvdu i figured it’s AMAZING for scar jumping on yoshis, I get to do my wall jumps extremely high and I keep my double jump for maybe a second aerial or something

[@DP3mo24hofosho]

I too use claw cstick ledgedashes and was wanting more info on it. I’ve gotten into arguments before with people who think it’s inconsistent/can’t get max galint and I know for a fact max galint is a reality, and as far as consistency goes I feel like it’s very consistent

[@riverrunsthrough8268]

@@felixdoyon6546 yeah claw lets you get some really nasty and consistent scar jumps

[@EvilApple567]

@@riverrunsthrough8268 I don't see why claw is beneficial for scar jumps. C stick down or away should absolutely be used unless you're going for a fastfall to get very low quickly and catch them by surprise, but all of the inputs until your double jump after the 6(?) inactionable wall jump frames are done with the analog stick which gives you plenty of time to readjust your right thumb from the C stick back to the main buttons.

[@herbmaaster]

man where's your running playlist? i remember listening to it on a car ride, it had sonic adventure 2 battle tracks on there, so sick

[@kitkat9716]

I love ur content as always Also the production value got better! Damn

[@DelayedLaunch]

I gotta give this video credit. I could not ledgedash with Fox whatsoever-- but after watching this video, and a week or so of practice, I’ve been utilizing GALINT consistently in real matches and it feels so good.

[@kneo12]

No matter what happens to you and your ability to play in tournament these contruibutions and videos will always be greatly appreciated. So focus on this kind of contact and just forget Leffen even exists.

[@scarl2t]

I love Hax's voice. I like to rewatch these videos whenever im stressed

[@charliethechevilguy]

Hax$ you the gosh darn man and im looking forward to the day when you are best in the world

[@Acryte]

yo hax what was the peach ledge thing that you banned a specific coordinate for in the b0xx doc?

[@sageosaka]

This was an amazingly well put together video

[@Rael0505]

Thanks Hax!

[@dbdabomba]

Hey just a heads up you’ll probably want to EQ your vocal audio to lower the high end frequencies, since they’re pretty noticeable. In particular, your “s” and “t” sounds are really loud. Great video otherwise keep up the good work!

[@mjl167]

agreed. itd be easy to do with audacity. Hax has big nuts you can tell by his voice

[@killaforchicken]

i randomly came across this video and i was like, wow. this guy delivers his content in an extremely concise and easy to understand manner. then i looked at the uploader and i was like, "ohhhhhh, no wonder"

[@timothydavis5575]

Great video and explanation Hax!

[@srpaz8292]

We don't deserve you man, thank you so much. Amazing video.

[@RkeyNirun]

What a great video, thank you so much Hax!

[@BaconBurgerKing]

Thank you so much for this Hax. Armed with this knowledge, I can go 0-2 in bracket with higher GALINT than I ever imagined. In all seriousness the video drastically helped improve my ledgedash consistency and fundamental understanding, and I'm very grateful for that

[@jeanetteustin8311]

Highly informative - beautiful graphics!

[@monkey2619]

I've watched you SD from the ledge too much to take this video seriously. (JK thank you so much!!)

[@bb97979]

Our prophet changing Melee. One tech at a time

[@amra7210]

i always felt like I'd SD more when wavedashing to ledge and immediately ledgedashing versus refreshing invincibility before ledgedashing. looks like it was ECBs. thank you hax$

[@ethanlassey5795]

Hax thank you for making this, really informative stuff and I'd hope to see more of it. But my brain is far to small and smooth for this shit

[@dontmissthe_elevator]

This man does not miss

[@chobitscs2]

love you father

[@taytertot9382]

Damn I didn’t consider even that tilting down didn’t produce and ff from ledge whereas my full ass smash down is always gonna produce a ff from ledge. Never wanted to learn the away from ledge method. Now I understand much more about my weak ass ledgedashes. Thank you, I’ve got some practicing to do

[@subpanda101]

How would I enable the unclepunch frame viewer? Is it available on 20xx iso?

[@GustoFormula]

UnclePunch refers to Training Mode made by uncle punch and it is its own mod independent of 20XX. smashboards.com/threads/training-mode-v1-1-updated-1-11-19.456449/

[@thelaw3536]

This was fantastic!

[@prospeedrunner2438]

Hax, what angle is the white line at 7:45 ?

[@skyninegaming]

Can Falco use a ledge fall DJ to change his ECB? And if fox presses away immediate DJ FF back to ledge to refresh, can he preserve ECB that way too?

[@omurcho]

Not even 8 minutes in and I'm already consistently ledgedashing, how the hell kind sir

[@bigdro5227]

Please please please continue with this style of content, you're like Magic Scrumpy but not a tool

[@marlcoore]

Already subbed. Thank you for the information.

[@TheStrvggler]

I personally will drop a lot of times with the c-stick, which is a slow fall. That way im already holding in towards stage for my ledgedash. This is less effective with other characters, but I play Ganon so it works well for me.

[@julianlastname5730]

I cannot believe that people go this deep into this game

[@SL-pt1ib]

Thank you so much, 20XX Fox God

[@Rintse]

You're a legend my guy

[@jtobiasthomasrose]

thanks for the vid. Now I can win all the tournaments.

[@jorgerascon1212]

Incredible content

[@Emperorerror]

As I mention in my other comment, I see the first fast fallable frame as being frame 2 of fall (as Falco). If I fast fall on the 3rd frame, I get 5 total frames of fall, whereas if I fast fall on the 2nd, I get 4 total frames. Am I doing something wrong? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what it means to do an input on a frame with frame advance, though. If I say, "I press down on frame 2," to me, that means, "Paused on the 2nd frame of fall, I press down, and advance the frame." Does that mean the input occurs on the third frame?

[@zman4220]

This changes a lot

[@jmarvins]

Hax, did you try the different Captain Falcon skins to test whether the modified ECB of each skin affects ledgedash?

[@pippincovington1348]

He definitely didn't do that

[@katsukikubota7549]

Sick vid.

[@hasone3354]

Who will be the first fox to bust out the 16 GALINT ledgedash in tourney?

[@averagejoessb3110]

15:37 omg this part made me lol fr.

[@Killopotamus]

CTG_AverageJoe 11 characters baybee

[@zipar3132]

The others simply don't exist.

[@pippincovington1348]

Lol yeah shout out to everyone who mains a non-existent character 😂 mid and low tier mains rise up 😤✊

[@jdog_7599]

Green falcon has a larger ECB than neutral falcon. Does this affect anything ledge dashing??? (Please I play green falcon)

[@genuwhine6782]

So its good I learned to ledge dash/practice on yoshis nice

[@wolfewaffles3530]

What do u mean by shallow air dodge closer to the right or close to the very bottom?

[@sel7506]

I've the same problem xD But just type shallow angle on google image

[@heterodoxagnostic8070]

could you make a video on No Impact Lands?

[@peterlund9299]

This is quality content. Please do more, Hax Fucking Money.

[@zeke547]

Does up b stall reset ecb?

[@andrew9133]

I can never get enough in-depth melee mechanic analysis. I can only hope that Hax$ will replace Kadano

[@ROFL_661]

My right ledge favoring brain got confused by the stick graphs for a second. And then I was like ohhhh it's the left ledge loll

[@n0va25000]

The only thing that changed is that now, I know exactly why I die. Great content nontheless :^)

[@Emperorerror]

You mention that a fast fall can be buffered 3 frames in advance, but I think I might not understand. I'm using the frame advance in uncle punch right now, and it looks to me like (using Falco) I can fast fall on the second frame of fall, and get 4 frames of fall before catch (compared to 10 not fast falling). Doing it on the 3rd frame of fall results in 5 frames of fall. And if I do it on the first frame of fall, it does not fast fall. So it doesn't seem to me like it can be buffered. EDIT: I realize my misunderstanding. Buffering doesn't mean "only doing the input in previous frames," but rather, "ALSO doing the input in previous frames." If I start holding down in the first frame of fall, or even 2 frames before that while still on the stage, but then keep holding it through the second, it still works.

[@gehteuchnichtsan7911]

There will be a time where you can study melee in a e-port university. And this will be relevant course material.

[@sonic12344628]

20XX haha gotem

[@tgr3423]

This game is fucking insane and I love it

[@leavethebasket7435]

You're a god hax

[@n0lain]

Does firefox stalling guarantee a good ECB?

[@MaZe741]

the year is 20xx, mastering melee is harder than a quantum physics degree

[@Chrisuan]

2/10, didn't talk about Parallel Universes JK, incredibly well-done video! Keep it up

[@eddygecko3184]

Hey hax ur handsome

[@somniad]

2:42 I hate being a Luigi main because I always get barely left off of charts like this lol

[@riseofkings4830]

Welcome to Melee University

[@ShiftingShadows28]

I would be interested in an aerial interrupt video :D (falcon main)

[@yelv]

inc

[@jdog_7599]

Powerful voice

[@lohst1672]

Will this be on the test?

[@matthewsommerfield7681]

wat a legend

[@LukeYoungICXC]

Do b0xxes ship to you asap? Like how Is the pre order thing working

[@genericdeveloper3966]

If I'm going to spend this much energy analyzing something I better get a diploma afterwards.

[@E-Brightvoid]

Forbidden knowledge

[@lilalexq22]

If I could like this twice I would

[@sharsasuke01]

Hax has a voice for radio.

[@TdoubleMJ]

Please make more!!!!

[@kevinwonnacott5150]

This is why Melee won't die. The players are too dedicated.

[@Senski_]

BIG BRAIN

[@williamwilliam4944]

This game's skill ceiling is ridiculously high.

[@cfalcon8342]

im gonna be a god now...