An electric cargo bike to replace a minivan as the ultimate family vehicle

[@jacobpowell1882]

We have 5 kids and having an urban arrow family along with some trail a bikes has effectively allowed us to downsize to one vehicle for us. Anything within about a 10 mile radius is a bike trip for us. That’s going to church to the library the park and yes getting groceries. It can be done!

[@Shifter_Cycling]

Amazing. Thanks for sharing your story

[@deadbeatdon]

I would like to see governments working hard to incentivize single car urban (edit: and suburban) households as the norm. Our infrastructure and public services are groaning under the strain of our ultra mobile and convenient standard of living.

[@Frostbiker]

In an urban environment a car isn't necessary, even with a family. We need to make alternative modes of transportation convenient/frequent/inexpensive enough that more people choose to go car-free. Traffic is a scourge in our neighborhoods.

[@ThomasBomb45]

One car is still too many

[@Vaterraman]

My issue is the safety of the bike when not on it. If stores like Walmart had bike parking inside with someone watching, it would be easy. But having to use 2 or 3 locks, looking for a place to lock up the bike and making sure it is secure...anything other than biking to work seems risky.

[@furrane]

I really like cargo bikes but they got two huge downsides in my book : - The price, which I think is really not justified in most cases. - The space they take which make them, in my situation ( living in a medium city in France, medium appartement and no building bike parking space ), not even a possibility. BUT, as I do my trips exclusively by bike, I found a good alternative : a bike trailer ! I think it has some strong pros : - Versatility : You go to work ? No trailer. You go to Ikea : trailer. You go on a day trip ? Maybe trailer depending on your circumstances. - The space they take is very minimal once folded ( most models at least ). - The carrying capacity is somewhat comparable to a cargo bike. - They don't weight too much, so, depending on your situation, you can carry them up your appartement. - Price : you'll find good reliable trailers for around 300$ new which is still a hefty sum but nowhere near the price of a cargo bike.

[@anne12876]

I was at my friend's place who lives in the greater Lyon area and we when to went to Leroy Merlin to buy some timbers, paint and other items to renovate one of his rooms. We went there (so 2 adults) using his cargo e-bike. It's not exactly the same cargo bike than in this video. The e-bike was modify to have cargo space shared between the front and the back of the driver seat. He also have a removable box to increase cargo space when use only by one person. My friend leave his bike parked (and very well locked) outside of his apartment building making sure he has removed all accessories like the battery, lights, boxes and bags to prevent thief.

[@alex2143]

I think the price can be a bit steep, but still, if you can go from 2 cars down to 1 car and a cargo bike you're still coming out ahead. But agreed - they're still just a bit too much of a luxury thing rather than just a utilitarian thing. As for the space, I hate that it's still the case that people have to go "I don't have space for a cargo bike, so I gotta get a car". We need to be better as a society.

[@emma70707]

I think it depends heavily on your use case. If you're always going to be bringing your kid or two to daycare before heading to work and then picking them up on the way home, then a cargo bike makes total sense. Being able to see children in front of you and not accidentally clipping a curb with them behind and flipping over the trailer would be a huge plus. If you live alone and need a trailer once a month for a run to Costco, then 100% just get the trailer... If you work as a contractor and are bringing a bunch of tools with you to job sites, then you're back to needing the cargo bike. Urban Arrow makes something called the Shorty which I've considered and I think would be a solid option for a lot of urban dwellers who want some cargo capacity but also live in tiny spaces. It basically has an enclosed area that's vertical and locks--having trunk space would be amazing imo as an urban commuter who wants to look more professional and not have to carry around a backpack+helmet all the time.

[@furrane]

@@anne12876 I'm happy to read your story Anne ! It's obvious that the more options and modularity you have, the better, and it's cool to read about others' solutions ! As for leaving the bike outside, I guess that very much location tied and I'm happy to hear that it's possible for your friend, but in my case I wouldn't find it in the morning after 2 or 3 nights (and that's not me being paranoiac, I had two scooters with motorcycle-grade locks stolen from me while park outside).

[@furrane]

@@alex2143 _I think the price can be a bit steep, but still, if you can go from 2 cars down to 1 car and a cargo bike you're still coming out ahead._ Absolutely. _But agreed - they're still just a bit too much of a luxury thing rather than just a utilitarian thing._ It depends on your situation : if you're replacing a car with a cargo bike, the economics are always in your favor. The point I was trying to make was more like "if you already have a bike, you can achieve pretty much the same utility as a cargo bike with a bike trailer which is much cheaper". _As for the space, I hate that it's still the case that people have to go "I don't have space for a cargo bike, so I gotta get a car". We need to be better as a society._ Yeah, well, if that was aimed at me, I said in my initial comment "I do my trips exclusively by bike" to which I might add that I don't own a car. And if that was more of a general comment, I don't think I ever heard someone justify having a car over a cargo bike by saying they don't have the space, which makes sense since a car takes up more space than a cargo bike ?

[@thejesuschrist]

Proud owner of a Riese and Muller Load 60. Best purchase ever made.

[@difflocktwo]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ swimming in monies.

[@Screech9]

SUDDENLY JESUS W

[@tconnolly9820]

If you can use it to it's full potential it's a great investment. Good luck with it.

[@jamsya493]

Based jesus

[@StefanSte]

I cant believe i found Jesus in the comments of a cargo bike video :O

[@birdrocket]

I really appreciate this channel acting as a positive voice in the urban planning/cycling community. It can get really daunting focusing on all the negatives sometimes

[@brighton_dude]

Cargo bikes have really taken off in the last few years but I think people might like to consider looking at a trailer for their bicycle or e-bike as an alternative. The advantage with a trailer is that when you aren't using it you have just a regular bike, of course. You only need that one bike, the trailer transforms it into a cargo bike. You can have different trailers of course so you could have a big one for trips to the DIY store and a small one for local shopping. Personally I prefer the trailer for handling, it has surprisingly little influence on the bicycle. The last thing to consider is the cost, I think a regular bike or e-bike and trailer will cost less than a cargo bike.

[@wsams]

Definitely a good option. I had a nice double Thule but sold it. I think they're a little more awkward than a bakfiets, especially parking at racks. Saying this kind of makes me want a bakfiets with a trailer 😊 ❤

[@LoveToday8]

I find trailers a bit cumbersome. It's another thing to keep track of. They definitely have utility but I wouldn't want to have to rely on one on a regular basis. I imagine many people who trnasport their kids in a trailer would prefer a cargo bike. If I had children, I'd prefer the front loaders so that I could observe and interact with them more.

[@ClintonAllenAnderson]

We recently got a bike trailer so I could haul my mini PA to music gigs and not have to use the car. We also use it as our grocery cart for our sort of weekly shopping. We love it so far. Quaxing is awesome!

[@Deckzwabber]

My niece gets towed to school behind my brother in law's e-bike. At least when the weather isn't too bad, it's a 15-20 minute ride. The bike trailer was around 150 euro used and still in good condition. That'll buy you a saddle and handlebars from Riese and Müller.

[@saynotop2w]

yeah rear load is far more natural to ride than front load

[@lazylonewolf]

Here in the Philippines, the relatively cheap tri/quadwheel Chinese ebikes, as well as 14-16" two-wheel ebikes have replaced some if not all car/public transport for some families.

[@Shifter_Cycling]

Good to hear this is a viable option.

[@lazylonewolf]

@@Shifter_Cycling Viable yes, but slow as heck and not much range since they're throttle-only. I wish we had those bakfiets here which addresses both of these problems, but with road traffic and the lack of driving discipline over here, I don't think bakfiets will ever be safe enough to carry kids around in until the issues I mentioned improve.

[@udishomer5852]

I wouldn't say they replaced cars, they were bought by people who can't afford to own cars and can now have their own transportation device. And yes, I live in Manila.

[@lazylonewolf]

@@udishomer5852 I still say replace because it also replaced the "idea" of "needing" to own a car. The only downside of all these trikes on the road are a lot of them don't know the road rules since of course they don't need a license.

[@PixelShade]

Here in Malmö Sweden (ranking 6th most bicycle friendly city in the world) Cargo bikes are everywhere. A friend of mine has one of the three wheeled ones. They ditched the car altogether since three years back. And it's amazing how much utility you can get out of these. One time, his family and I went on a picnic on the same bike. My friend was the one peddling, while me, his wife and child shared the box, together with all the picnic stuff.... At maximum electric assist it was no challenge to peddle the bike.... the electric assisted versions cost ~3800$ here (from "Cargobike of Sweden") You can also often see 2 kindergarten teachers packing ~12 or more kids with two bikes, going on excursions and local playgrounds.

[@SIC647]

Yes. Very many people in Denmark do it. Some only have their cargo trike. Some have one car, and instead of buying a second car, they buy an electric cargo bike/trike (or before those became common, one without electricity) or a bike trailer. It is usually used for local trips to the grocery store, picking up the kids, going to town with the kids, and just generally hauling things locally.

[@krob9145]

With the Ulez in London I have passed some businesses using cargo bikes. I've seen the bakeries, some plumbers, some parcel deliverers, some painting and decorating guys and even a bike rental company that delivers their bikes to customers via cargo bike. Some of these do have vans but they save them for really heavy haulage times. Most day to day stuff they can manage on cargo bikes. This is only a minority of businesses but in certain parts of the city it's getting noticed.

[@yutyuiiu]

flower delivery in London is largely on bikes now

[@krob9145]

@@yutyuiiu And some estate agents use bikes as well as NHS staff which includes doctors, nurses etc.

[@lunieblue]

In Paris for the first time and saw a guy on a cargo bike with a folding ladder and all his tools. That was amazing, no need for F150s

[@krob9145]

@@lunieblue I've seen that before, usually it's painters and decorators.

[@Newyorker000]

Love this! We are a family of 5, no car, multiple cargo bikes in nyc and have seen many families getting cargo bikes in many cities including suburbs! So life changing Only regret from us was not getting a cargo bike 10 years ago instead of 4. Could have had even more amazing memories with our oldest who is 10 but that’s ok. ❤❤

[@NaturallyRC]

Halfway through watching this video (I'm not making this up) an ad cut in declaring, "There's no substitute for a Ford F150." LOL. This is the headwind those of us trying to change entrenched mindsets are up against. Great video, Tom, as usual. Thanks for sharing.

[@firiel2366]

I got a car ad at the start of the video 😅 I don't know when car companies will figure out that I literally could not hate cars more and yet every ad I get makes me hate them more lol

[@LucasH567]

It’s hilarious that because the title includes “minivan”, that the ad algorithm puts a car ad on this bicycle video! But it’s also terrifying that car companies are trying to up-sell families from sedans or minivans, into buying a full size pick up truck. Because what more American than buying a truck to haul your 50 lb human child and groceries?

[@NaturallyRC]

You said it. Often there IS a substitute for a full-size pickup, when, as you say, getting take-out, or driving your kid to soccer practice, etc., etc.@@LucasH567

[@emma70707]

I hope Shifter gets a big RPM from all the car ads. Lololol. A bunch of truck ads targeted at totally the wrong audience (people interested in downsizing to a cargo bike) is just so perfect.

[@tompaah7503]

With about flawless 16.000 kms in three years, my Load 75 has absolutely done the job of a car.

[@jasonarthurs3885]

Upon hearing Cailynn state 10 000kms was low for yearly average distance travelled by auto, it donned on me that I'm averaging 13 000kms on my e-bike - likely to surpass Earth's circumference (40 075kms) by Thanksgiving! Also, Tom; your content continues to be top notch. Thank you for your insightfulness and charm.

[@udishomer5852]

This really varies by country, In the US the average is 25-30,000 km while in Europe its closer to 10-15,000 km per year.

[@amazingworldadventures325]

I have just a standard folding electric bike plus I bought a used toddler trailer for $30 on Craiglist. That gives me the best of both worlds. I frequently take just the bike out (100+ miles / 160+ km) per month, since it's my daily driver. When I need the extra cargo capacity, I can hitch the trailer on and it will haul up to 100lbs (45kg), in addition to what I can put directly on the bike itself. When I don't need it, the trailer folds up neatly and stores away flat.

[@POINTS2]

Just yesterday, I test rode an Aventon Abound cargo bike and it's great! I have a Aventon Level 2 ebike that I used last school year to take my daughter 10 miles (16 km) to Kindergaten in a trailer. My wife is willing to try to use the cargo bike for school pick up to save on gas and get some exercise. Just the amount of saving in gas for one school year is enough to cover the ebike. We could buy an ebike every year is still come out ahead especially once you account for maintenance, car tires, etc.

[@wsams]

So awesome for school pickup ❤ My kids are already biking since Kindergarten so a cargo bike never made sense. They like the freedom of their own wheels much better. But I see plenty of parents still biking or towing kids.

[@Madamoizillion]

I have the Abound! If you didn't already get it between when you wrote the comment and now, I really, really recommend it!! I love it so much, it's a downright FUN bike as well as being useful!

[@AG-bp3ll]

I don't have a need for a full cargo bike, but a standard electric bike and a couple of insulated panniers has been a nice way to do grocery shopping and basic errands without needing to use the car nearly as often. I don't live in a bike friendly area and the heat has been triple digits all summer but the ebike has evened a lot of that out.

[@wsams]

Very nice. I do the same. Two Ortlieb bags. I've had them now about 20 years and they're strong as a tank. I tend to shop often instead of one big trip so that makes it very doable. I look forward to a grocery run. ❤

[@AssBlasster]

Or just add a bike trailer if you need a large cargo space for Costco grocery trips

[@gingermany6223]

I have a RadWagon and an electric minivan. It doesn't replace the van but it is a good second car. We use the RadWagon for Costco, groceries, school runs, picking up take out, etc. Nice thing about CostCo is the bike keeps you from purchasing too much! For small trips we try and take the bike and so far we put about 1000mile (1600km) per year on it running errands. Since there is no public transportation where I live a car is still needed for long trips. Edit to add we are a family of 6.

[@Shifter_Cycling]

A cargo-bike as a strategy for not buying too much stuff is a new one, and I like it.

[@jeffsweeney312]

There are no electric minivans in US.

[@deansmits006]

By electric minivan, I assume you meant the Chrysler PHEV?

[@gingermany6223]

@@deansmits006 yes technically a PHEV. First 32 miles are electric only and honestly that is 99% of our driving so 99% of the time it is in EV mode only. I'm actually surprised it is not more popular in the suburbs as a people hauler.

[@jasonarthurs3885]

@@jeffsweeney312 Context is everything.

[@jacobpowell1882]

Another huge benefit to having a front loading cargo bike as opposed to a bike trailer is being able to see your kids and correct and or discipline them when they start arguing as kids are wont to do. I can give them a little bop on the helmet without having to stop or turn around while I’m still riding.

[@dutchman7623]

And you are sure to arrive on your destination with the family still complete. It's such a fuzz to ride back and looking where you lost one or two...

[@jasonarthurs3885]

Thank you for this astute observation.

[@Jermeister]

Nothing says 'Suburban Dad' better than a pair of white tube socks. Missing are the white NB shoes, though. 😂

[@Shifter_Cycling]

Hiking shoes in the city is my go-to suburban-dad choice 😆

[@Jermeister]

@@Shifter_Cycling Double-functionality footwear like a real suburban-dad! 😁😂

[@donntrotter]

I had one in MN and loved it dearly. I sold it in TX bc it was simply too hot for a non-electric bakfiets. The biggest drawback was that I had limited storage. I would highly recommend to ANYONE with a garage or secure outdoor access with a motorcycle cover.

[@eechauch5522]

I can relate to Cailynn’s situation very well. We don’t have kids yet, but I basically have the same thought process. Currently we have one car which is almost exclusively used for trips outside of the city and occasionally to transport stuff or do bigger and heavy shopping trips. Most of our shopping is done by bike or on foot. We don’t need a second car, right now we barely need the one we have. Having an additional cargo bike would much more useful then a second car and between them should solve any transportation problem for the foreseeable future, while being considerably cheaper. I actually take this into account when looking for houses, because not needing a second car longterm can warrant spending a bit more on a house and still coming out ahead, not to mention the better quality of life. My only problem right now would be where to store the bike. Unfortunately it’s easier to store a car then a cargo bike in a street.

[@liftoffthecouch]

A friend around the corner from me has a cargo ebike and it definitely replaces a minivan for them. More likely, it'd be a small 4 cylinder car. But her and the 2 kids zip all over the place with it. Often with a couple of large toys hanging out 😂 She's definitely getting her money worth from it!

[@kmiylle]

I have bought an e-bullit earleir this year. I love this bike. So practical yet fun. What you said is true about e cargo bikes. Its not so much about the capability but the convenience. I do ride around a lot without turning the motor on. But when I'm tired, sick, or just feeling lazy, rhere is no excuse to take the car anymore. The car never moves without leaving the city anymore.

[@melaniesamsoncormier]

I always love hearing Cailynn's perspective and the thorough research she does!

[@LockieScott]

Ask any cargo bike owner what they think of their cargo bike and it's always the same answer, life changing and makes so many things more fun and more convenient! We have the Cube Cargo 1000 and I think it's the best value for money, under 6000€ here in Germany (before state or city rebates) and a larger cargo area than the Urban Arrow and wider and more protected for kids than the Riese and Müllers (similar to the Load range). When I want to take a silly amount of things with me and my son, I simply chuck him on the back in a bike seat. I've taken our SUP, a sun tent, cooler full of food, picnic, swimming things, two large camping chairs, a crate of beer, and my son to the lake and set up the perfect day out. Good luck hauling all of that to the best spot at the lake!

[@mausmalone]

I was digging this until the cost. JEEEZ that's not cheap. If you're not hauling children around it feels like you'd be way better off with a basic e-bike and a trailer that you can attach/detach as needed.

[@drill_fiend1097]

100%. Can't beat a Co-op cargo eBike + bicycle specific trailer hitch! Too bad my apartment wants eBikes away from the parking lot.

[@davidsnyder518]

Definitely, also you can go for a cheaper cargo bike. A radwagon 5 has a base price $2500. That's still a lot but a hell of a lot less than the top cargo bike or a used car

[@KevinAdams06]

Genuine question, what is the advantage of a cargo bike over a trailer? I would assume that the nicest trailer and e-bike combination would be significantly cheaper.

[@Frostbiker]

That's a good point, and you can easily leave the trailer at home if all you need for the current trip is the e-bike. Perhaps there's a benefit to a front-loading cargo bike when you want to carry a small child or two and want to be able to hold a conversation, but even that could be addressed.

[@markifi]

just one track makes it possible to avoid potholes. your cargo leans with you so you don't need to slow down for corners, there's so much grip on the tyres if you have 50 kilos on the bike. you can keep an eye on your cargo all the time, important with dogs and kids. you may strap very long things on the side of the bike; i carried boards before. higher maximum weight capacity. it's probably significantly cheaper to go with the trailer but it's an even more cumbersome setup, however you can get lucky if you keep looking. i bought a postman's bicycle for 30 euros and cost me 20 euros and my time to fix up, and i carry the dog daily with it. most i carried was 60-80 kilos. it's a very slow bike. paying a welder to build either atomic zombie's diy plans or phil vandelay's plan could be much cheaper than most options other than a Yuba

[@niceguy191]

I think it ends up carrying the weight a bit better, but you do sacrifice adaptability for sure

[@adorabell4253]

It depends on needs. Trailers tend to be smaller than cargo boxes and not as versatile with the inside. A kid trailer will always have that kid seat build vs a cargo bike that can remove all the kid stuff and just be a big box. (You might still have the shelf for the seat but you can take all the harnesses out. You also don’t need to lock two things up with a cargo bike or worry about it turning over. On the other hand, a trailer is cheaper. So much cheaper. They’re also much better for leisure and human rides. I can take mine on simple trails with my kid and did so often. She’d just fall asleep in the back while I rode. They’re also more maneuverable as they have a much tighter turn ability. You also can’t underestimate the convenience of just in clipping the trailer, puttting on the running wheel, and using it as a shopping cart. No need to move kid. Much less cargo space, though. The real nice thing with cargos is the modularity. As long as you have the adaptors (and they’re pretty cheap) you can use the same trailer with multiple bikes. You can even swap in the middle of a ride. Plus taking the bike in for maintenance is easier when it’s just a bike. So you really need to weigh the pros and cons for your particular circumstance.

[@edwardbrown3721]

It'd harder to control and tugs you a lot more, specially in curves

[@fitzsi28]

We got the Urban Arrow instead of a 2nd car and it has been awesome with a toddler and an infant. We load it up with the kids, car seat, panniers, bags bungeed to the rear rack and have even attached the diaper bag and a small stroller to the side of the box. We ride it all through the winter to and from daycare

[@We.are.robots]

Interesting! Did you modify an infant car seat to fit in the tub? It seems most accessories for these things are for 2yr +

[@fitzsi28]

@@We.are.robots No Urban Arrow has a maxi Cosi car seat adapter that bolts into the box. Our car seat clicks in much the same way it would click into a stroller.

[@We.are.robots]

Thanks that's very cool I will look into it!@@fitzsi28

[@toxecteamer8674]

Great video Tom, thanks! I am worried about two things: parking the bike (theft wise) and biking a loaded cargo bike in winter e.g. traction, steering, battery life etc. P.S. I ride all winter in Calgary.

[@HermannKerr]

I really like that style of cargo bike when there are children. I saw a video describing the ride in this style of bike from a child's prospective and it was super cool.

[@hyleslie]

Darcy's channel devoted to life with CargoBike is great: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHazhYFoeNmHqZIsi=dAEPFCKbVYLhASS8

[@definitelynotacrab7651]

Great video, most families living in cities really could get by with 1 or even no cars and biking to get around, they just need to get past the mental block saying "a bike cant do this"

[@thehousecat93]

They need a safe network of bike lanes that allow them to go where they need without the risk of death or serious injury from some lunatic who couldn’t bear the thought of being delayed 20 seconds.

[@emma70707]

​@@thehousecat93, it's true that safe bike lanes would go a long way, but there's also safety in numbers. If there are constantly cyclists around, then cars are constantly looking for cyclists and understand how they move. If cyclists are rare, then it's easy for drivers to failed to accurately gauge the speed of a cyclist or overlook them completely. We should 100% be focusing on infrastructure but also it is important that those who are willing to be brave get out and bike because that actually does improve conditions for everyone.

[@LoveToday8]

If all you know is cars it can be hard to imagine differently. I'd love to see bike commercials become a mainstream thing. I also think being sort of an ambassador can help. I know I've expanded the minds of many people in my area with my cargo bike. Even a neighbor who drives a pick up truck was eyeing my bike and itching to compliment me one day. I found it rather cute. E-bikes can really help a lot of people shift from a car to cycling for transportation. Safe infrastructure and vouchers for e-bikes are two things that will hasten e-bike adoption

[@ZeroTailpipe]

What a fab video! Glad to (finally) see this on your channel! I put over 20,000 km on a R&M Packster 60 then a R&M Load 60 in Denmark with my child. Worked absolutely perfectly. All weathers. All tasks. Only missed 2-3 days in 4 years - due to NOT wanting to cycle on ice. That was it. Job done :) Back in the UK now and… missing it ENORMOUSLY… 😢

[@karlInSanDiego]

Riese and Muller Load ecargo bike is essentially Range Rover class cargo bike. You get what you pay for, and it is premium, but to be clear, there will soon be cheaper optiins for those who pot luck and don't cater. Yuba, REI, Tern are some others to explore. Specialized and Raleigh too.

[@madelineduffin1352]

I have used a Yuba Mondo for 15 years to transport my son and just bought a new one because the older Yuba bottom bracket corroded to the frame.

[@seanfrank4158]

I'd love to buy a Riese and Muller Supercharger but that price tag....ouch....

[@denverspin]

Aventon, Rad, Flyer. There’s others around $2,000

[@Xune2000]

6:20 Riker looks like a sweet kid.

[@Shifter_Cycling]

He has a good heart.

[@iamzafarali]

Would love to hear more about the experience in the winter! What kind of gear do you need? Do the groceries get cold/need covering? Are the bike paths well maintained to your destination? Is there more planning involved to avoid snowy/cold days? Thanks for these eye opening videos!

[@sagehiker]

Tom Bain, “Frostbike” I have bought and shared copies.

[@unrealcyberfly]

You can get rain covers for most bikes. There are rain covers without windows for cargo only. And rain cover with windows for children or pets. Snow isn't a problem when your city clears the bike lanes. In other words, you can ride rain or shine.

[@Shifter_Cycling]

I haven’t tried this bike in winter, but I have a lot to say about riding in winter. Check out my playlist below, or my book Frostbike. Thanks for the contribution! kzbin.info/aero/PL9VVRCsi30SkoDMAHux-OA81ZeBXx7R98&si=G760A8vnX6jfs7qO

[@bekabest]

We have a Load 75 with a 2 year old kid in Chicago. My wife and son actually both fit in the cargo basket, and we can throw some groceries in the panniers!

[@controlmonkey]

My wife & I have matching his & hers ebikes, when you add the accessories we bought to help transport kids & stuff (panniers, kids seats, trailer, baskets) They probably added up to about $6k AUD. The cost of running our car is about $4-5k per year. Us both having ebikes means we can stick to the one car, and drive the one we have now less. They make financial sense! If spending $10k on a cargo bike means you don't need to buy a car(either a first car or a second car), the savings each year will be in the thousands!

[@wpunchak]

Great video! The grocery shop was on the lighter for a family 🙃, but I can confirm you can fit a TON of groceries in a cargo bike. It is comparable to the space in a car's trunk. I've also hauled kids bikes and equipment for a soccer team, while also transporting kids. So fun!

[@RealConstructor]

You can even move a washing machine in a cargo bike. I assisted the neighbors to move there son and his friend from his old student room and his friend’s old apartment in the city center to their new apartment, just outside the center about 2.5km away. The son’s friend had a cargo bike and we moved the washing machine from his apartment to the new apartment with the cargo bike. And also the couch, but for that one we needed to walk instead of bike, there had to be three persons for that move, one for steering and balancing the cargo bike and two, one at each side of the couch to keep it from falling and touching the ground, walls, streetlights and roadsigns. It is an ideal hauling transporter, not only for groceries, kids and dogs. In the city moving by rented hauling van or own minivan is expensive, because of parking fees and the time you need to find a parking spot. Or blocking the street (for which you can be fined) if you want to (un)load just in front of the main entrance. I’m talking about The Netherlands though, don’t know if this is a possibility in the US.

[@wpunchak]

@@RealConstructor I believe it! Lol that would've been fun to see. Amazing!

[@bobavontanelorn5713]

In 2010, we moved from an agricultural village a few kilometers from the outskirts to the city center, and the first thing we did was get rid of our second car. We started to commute to work by bike or train and the car (station wagon - there is no reason to use a mini van) was only used to take kids to school, shopping and for vacations. In 2021 we bought a cargo ebike and a street ebike. Our two kids also bike themselves most of the ways. The train ticket is now only used in the worst weather. As soon as my younger kid stops going to elementary school, we will get rid of our car altogether and only use bikes. I think this option is of course dependent on the distances one has to commute. A single distance of 15 km is no problem with the EBike. For children, 5 kilometers are not an issue. When you look at how many distances are below these limits, you find that it's mostly just the blockage in your head and the comfort in your butt that keeps you from getting on your bike. By the way, when considering the costs, you should not forget that you also save the monthly fees for the fitness club... Age is also not a reason to not use a bike. My mother is 75 and my parents in law are in an equal age - and they all changed from car to ebike. That is the situation here in northern Germany.

[@Jacksparrow4986]

I got the bike in the video for about 3 years (older modell obviously). With load I find it handles nicer due to lower center of gravity. Without load it can be tricky on wet roads as traction on the front wheel is low. Shopping with a kid requires bags at the bag mostly if you're lazy like as and buy most of the food you need for a week for a family of 4 in one go. Without kids I don't need them but should use them so veggies and stuff don't get squished as much. As we moved from 0 cars up to 1 cargo bike I can't offer a cost comparison, our families total mobility costs in germany are maybe 3000 a year including all the bikes, train trips. We have settled at needing to rent a car every 2-3 years where we live and often (every 2-3 months or so) use it to visit family when with family, however recently train connections have improved a bit (and traffic on the road has gotten a lot worse) so we've started trying to break up that habbit.

[@Pscribbled]

What’s it like to leave the e-cargo bike locked up for a good part of the day? Is there any security measures on the bolts as well to prevent part theft? Or do you need to have a secondary cable lock to lock everything up?

[@jacobpowell1882]

We invested in 2 good heavy duty locks and chains. Yes they are expensive but it’s still cheaper than the maintenance and insurance and all other costs associated with cars. We also installed two apple tags to track our bikes if stolen.

[@chow-chihuang4903]

I also replace QR levers with bolts & nuts, sometimes using Hexlox inserts in hex bolt heads. That eliminates the need for cables for the front wheel and saddle & seatpost.

[@Shifter_Cycling]

Definitely use a couple of locks at least to keep it safe. The nice thing is that it's easy to carry multiple locks!

[@Jinnitaur]

Some of these high-end cargo bikes also have an internal immobilizing system, so the bike can't just be rolled away. Honestly, I wish that kind of thing was standard for all bikes.

[@extrastuff9463]

@@Jinnitaur That's kinda standard on our bicycles here in the Netherlands, anything but the sport segment will come with those locks that go through the rear wheel between the spokes. Doesn't truly immobilise it since the front wheel can still rotate but adding a similar thing there too could be done. But I still wouldn't rely on that for extended periods at places I don't trust since it can just be picked up and carried away, that's less of an issue for huge cargo bikes though. On any cargo bike I could see an immobilising system being useful both against theft and to park it with cargo in it at uneven terrain. I would expect some security features from the Bosch system as well on a cargo bike like this, I couldn't identify what was being used there but I know what is branded as the "Bosch smart system" on my relatively recently purchased ebike has some options. On mine I've got the basic "ebike lock" feature enabled that you can configure to require a "key" to enable the electric assistance, said key can be a display unit you've authorised being on the ebike or phone app (ebike flow) connected by bluetooth that's logged into the account that owns said bicycle. It won't stop anyone from pedaling and riding away on it but it's another factor that might make them less interesting for sale to a third party. That's just the basic free feature, for a yearly fee ebikes with the same system that also have a GPS module can get additional stuff like tracking its location and an alarm of some kind going off when it detects movement without being properly switched on (claims to use audio and sound). Haven't looked up demonstrations so I'm assuming there'll be some integrated annoying speaker making noise and maybe the interface illumination, front light and rear light doing something like flashing non-stop.

[@billyhill101]

I live on Long Island I use a cargo trike for everything for over thirty years

[@Zhuurgen]

Now try with a cheap normal ebike and bike trailer to see how the cost effective solution stacks up

[@hananas2]

As a Larry vs Harry bullitt owner I wouldn't say a cargo bike quite replaces a minivan for people who actually use them properly, but I would say it can replace a hatchback. Cargo bike picnics are awesome though 10/10

[@pascal9190]

I love the idea of (electric) cargo bikes but in my situation as a single dude it's just not worth it to own one. For now I'm fine with just my regular non electric bike to get around + panniers and a bike trailer to haul stuff. If I ever need to haul something I couldn't handle with my current setup I could still rent a car but such a situation has yet to arise. I live in a somewhat smaller town in Germany and am without a car for over a year now, so far without any issues. Still I would really appreciate having the option to rent a cargo bike just in case.

[@mithuharjani3620]

I love your videos, the great effort you put into making people aware of the importance of the bicycle , how well you explain it, Thank you for your great effort, greetings and until the next video 😊👍🚴🏾‍♀️🚴🏾‍♀️🚴🏾‍♀️

[@jo3ywils0n39]

I live in Victoria and there are so many of these running around in my neighbourhood. I had no idea they were pushing 15k. Totally unreasonable. Really a luxury lifestyle choice.

[@wsams]

That's if they're decked out. You can get a great bakfiets for half that. Or even half that if you don't need electric. I see them on Craigslist for 2k all the time.

[@geoff5623]

An Urban Arrow starts at $10K, or I found a Cube Cargo Sport for $8K. Not much of a used market now, but that might be more of an option in a few years. Yeah, that's pretty pricey, but comparing it to a $500, second-hand acoustic bike isn't a reasonable or accurate comparison. If you don't need the box, a long tail cargo ebike is in the $2K range (or a non-electric box bike for that price if you're okay without the assist). If its replacing a car (either having to buy one, or being able to sell one), then you would be financially ahead within a year or two at most. Financing would be a big factor in more people being able to afford one instead of choosing a cheap car that might cost less to purchase but would be much more to operate.

[@ShaggyBNE]

Using it as a car replacement, a $15k bike is far cheaper than a $15k car.

[@adorabell4253]

It’s so much cheaper than even a small car nowadays. A lot of the reason so many of them are pricey in Canada is that they’re import.

[@wayne00k]

I live in an otherwise wonderful small town with a couple of big supermarkets, pharmacies, other shops and many small but excellent eateries and would love to leave my car parked... but not one shopping space has a suitable bike rack to lock up to. And this is a town just outside of a major city in SE Pennsylvania! There is no interest on borough council to require them and the management of the two shopping centers both actually laughed out loud when they rejected my request to install something. Am I wrong to expect better?

[@Shifter_Cycling]

Have you spoken to the manager of the supermarket? I've heard some people say individual stores have brought in bike racks after customers asked for them.

[@johngorman7729]

Being a fellow albertan and European from scotland i love bikes. These are so expensive, justified easily if they get used all year around. I live in cochrane. Cochrane is terrible with bike paths, lack and quality. Winter is another hurdle, even my trek fat bike has a tough time here in Alberta when i sue it for groceries. If i lived in vancouver which i enjoy riding i’d make the plunge bit not here.

[@jacobpowell1882]

People complain about how expensive they are but you should really just run the numbers we realized we were spending nearly $10k between our two vehicles per year. These were paid off this was just maintenance fuel insurance tolls parking etc. we didn’t even calculate depreciation! That being said we could buy a brand new bike every year and still come out ahead financially

[@ashchbkv6965]

That's the thing about these cargo bike companies, they think just because people are buying these to replace cars they can price them at such an insanely high price. These bikes don't have to cost so much, $15k is crazy, this is just paying a premium for the brand name. You could get a normal bike that you may already have and just buy a trailer for a lot less and it's more flexible. Also because they're that expensive they attract thieves so much more than other bikes.

[@agilemind6241]

@@ashchbkv6965 I think this is just a matter of time. Right now the market for them is small which means the manufacturing of them cannot benefit from economies of scale, and because of the design even many of the components have to be specifically made just for these bike (e.g. all the turning mechanisms) which again no efficiency of scale means high prices. Once they get more popular the prices should start coming down.

[@MarioFanGamer659]

@@agilemind6241 On top of that, the second hand market for these cargo bikes is small so used bikes, which tend to be cheaper, don't really exist either unlike cars which had quite some head start in the second hand market.

[@stevencowles8419]

One of these is absolutely on my wish list

[@EdinbruehtKaffee]

I have the load 75 and it replaced my car ( in europe ) for everything except going to the backcountry hiking as it was an 1 hour drive. The only issue I ever had where I wished to not have it to make things easier was moving countries. No train no courrier no-one accepts them as freight. So anyway, this summer I am flying down and riding up for summer holidays which will be an amazing experience ! :)

[@pascaldeshayes5459]

Haha, I like your sense of humor. Thanks for the valuable content, as well.

[@ShortVersion1]

I just referenced you yesterday while telling our neighbor we don't intend to wear helmets with our new cargo bike!

[@skiergirl4753]

Why are you getting Ruffles when you could get Old Dutch 😂 😭? Calabrian living in the states - rarely eat chips but crave the sour cream and onion sometimes. Also, haven’t had a car for YEARS! No family but a e-cargo bike is the best decision I have ever made - I walked, cycled, and public transport everywhere (did the same whilst in Calgary - lived in lower Mount Royal and Scarboro). I have ridden to the mouth of the canyon, with skis (185 cm), more than a few times - the best!!!!

[@TheSaguache]

Howdy Tom, Just picked up a long tail (same idea, different design than a bakfiets) and I've been using it to commute to and from work and as a car replacement. It's great! I easily get 50 miles on a charge and I've been able to cruise around at 20 MPH without much strain. After work this afternoon I will head down to town for some grocery shopping. I may bring a camera or two for your challenge.

[@stephenstetler3324]

I have a special needs son and a front loading cargo seems like the best option. Love my R&M Homage, so I’m just saving for a Packster now.

[@leifvieri4372]

Shopping w/bicycle has a huge advantage -you avoid buying things not really necessary...

[@Jinnitaur]

That's an excellent point! Although, I do admit that one criteria I have when researching cargo bikes (I think I'll get a Yuba Kombi) is how well I can strap a case of canned seltzer and a case of bottled seltzer to it😃

[@vincewhite5087]

Actually if you read Iococa’s biography, he knew of minivan research done at GMC, but was shelved. He called engineer & offered to build it.

[@DoubleRBlaxican]

My biggest issue is more my bike getting stolen than not fitting everything

[@wsams]

Don't let this deter you. If you can afford a nice bike just get insurance. They replaced a bike of mine completely and the premium was far cheaper than a car.

[@lesbianesti]

if you can afford a nice cargo bike, I hope that you're locking it up with a high end bike chain and insuring it. just my take

[@SweBeach2023]

​@@lesbianestiEven the best of locks can't resist an angle grinder for more than a few secconds.

[@JesmondBeeBee]

​@@SweBeach2023I don't know if it's the case with this bike in the video, but I have seen a video about one that includes a sort of doohickey that plugs in and the motor won't work without it, so you take that away with you when you leave the bike.

[@iNerdier]

@@SweBeach2023 Having chased away four guys with angle grinders at 3 in the morning I agree with this, though there's a brand called Hiplock that does some pretty good angle grinder resistant ones that buy you some time. They have some weird coating that dulls/shatters blades and while they're expensive they're worth it on a much more expensive bike.

[@stevenhowes530]

i'd love to get one but without a garage it'd get stolen pretty quick here in winnipeg. Any chance you could revisit this again in winter? I'm curious how a fully loaded cargo bike would perform in snow.

[@unrealcyberfly]

There are mini cargo bikes like the Muli, Yoonit, and Omnium. These bikes are much smaller and lighter. But they can still haul a comparable amount of cargo.

[@pbilk]

What a great video! Thanks so much for those practical trips and information!

[@simonmandrakejones]

Great video. I don't think I can justify the expense of a cargo bike...my beater (non-electric) will suffice for what I need.

[@sovereigndonation4217]

I love that you actually went to Costco, however I would have loved to see how the bike would perform with bulkier items - box of KS diapers, 12 pack of UHT milk, 12 cans of corn and whatnot. You just got some crisps, which are not the bulkiest stuff they sell in Costco. In any case great video

[@hyleslie]

Check out Bike Bike Nudge Nudge. Great channel about life with a cargobike: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHazhYFoeNmHqZIsi=PDU2CM_rD_fVQrUN

[@Shifter_Cycling]

I did have a flat of aluminum cans in there, so there was some weight. But the bike is so smooth and the pedal-assist so responsive that I think it would be very difficult to fill that box with enough weight to have a major impact on the ride.

[@niceguy191]

Yeah that was the size of my Costco top-ups and I live alone. No way it can handle the typical family Costco run

[@MrMartinSchou]

5:00 - "It's just so easy throwing stuff in the back of this." Now imagine how easy the bike is to use if you rode properly, with the cargo bay in the direction of travel.

[@saynotop2w]

It might be the solution for the single family. I think a strong public transit system is the answer

[@tommywong3147]

I seen these quad cargo bike with a roof and enclosed truck very very intriguing. Hope to do a show on it.

[@l1od]

I work with those bikes im from swiss , we carry medicine food and recycling stuff arround the city for many bussines

[@sp00nfed]

For many, if not most things, yes. Next question. ;P

[@gerdforster883]

15000 CAD? That's insane. We got our Carqon Classic (admittedly at a discount since the store needed to free up space) for 4500 Euros. It would have been 5500 without the discount. Riese & Müller bikes are a bit more pricey; the Load4 75 sells at 7500 Euros. Which is still almost 3000 Euros under the Canadian price. You guys need a domestic bicycle industry, and you need it quickly.

[@l57371]

At least your Costco has a bike rack. (Glares in Grande Prairie)

[@kailahmann1823]

In my city you can rent a cargo bike (however smaller) very cheap - I want to try that at some point; first for stacking up on drinks (much more capacity than a regular bike!) and later with "living freight".

[@alessandrosimplicio6424]

Very nice to see the video production quality improve this much

[@zammap08]

imho in short: no, it can't. But it can do about 80% of the stuff that has to be done and that's kinda nice. Personaly i'm a DIY guy - so I built myself a trailer for my e-bike out of stuff I had lying around - had about 10000 reasons to do so. WIth a souped up Banfang that's quite nice.

[@Lacaras21]

I'm a big bicycle advocate and I absolutely think we need more of these types of bikes out there as they can replace many car trips. I really hate to be that guy, buuuut... does it completely replace a minivan? I'd argue no. For the Costco example, I'd be hard pressed to fit 3 kids and a week's worth of groceries from Costco that's enough to feed 3 kids and 2 adults in that bike all at the same time (not even to mention the diaper bag or other things you often need to carry with you when your kids are young), even with a trailer it seems like it would be difficult. Why do I say 3 kids and not 1? Because the majority of people buying minivans have more than 1 kid. There are a couple options a couple would have, one parent could watch the kids while the other gets groceries so the kids don't have to come along, or they could all go together in which the other parent would also have a bike of some kind that could carry at least 1 kid or some groceries, but my point is that this is still a compromise, with a minivan 1 parent could take the kids and get groceries, with the cargo bike I don't think that would be possible. Minivans are also able to handle large loads or awkwardly shaped large objects (much more so than your typical SUV), which becomes increasingly more common of a thing you do when you have kids and own a home, cargo bikes can replace some of those trips as well, but perhaps not all of them. Another function are for those with pets if your vet is not close enough to walk to it may be difficult to keep multiple dogs in a cargo bike while you take them to the vet. Problems like this are often caused by city design, but the point stands that it's not a perfect replacement. This is really me just speaking from my experience as a father/home owner in a small city with decent public transit and bike infrastructure, that there are still a lot of stupid relatively minor tasks that I need to use a motor vehicle for that pop up on a pretty regular basis as much as I wish that weren't the case. Taking a kid or even multiple kids to hockey practice? A cargo bike is absolutely enough. Does it fit in a typical family's finances? If it can replace a car you would have otherwise, yes for sure. And I'm glad you broke this down, because even if many of us live in relatively car dependent areas, many families can become 1 car families easily with products like these, my family made the jump to a 1 car family from a 2 car family last year and we are not looking back, the cost saving, space saving, and simplicity of having a single family car over having two cars is game changing.

[@kellylingus]

Awesome video! Yuba makes great cargo/people haulers and are not as expensive. They are amazing!

[@Shifter_Cycling]

There are so many good cargo-bike options these days. Thanks for sharing!

[@Jinnitaur]

Yeah, I'm looking at getting a Yuba Kombi (non-electric) maybe at the beginning of next year. The nice thing, too, is that almost any bike can be electrified later. As the years progress, motor prices will come down as they also get more efficient. And then there's the potential of the Sodium-Ion batteries, especially for safety of battery materials.

[@kellylingus]

@@Jinnitaur I`m a big fan of the fastrack. Or the Devinci ecartier

[@Jinnitaur]

@@kellylingus Unfortunately, the Fastrack is out of my budget, but it is a very nice bike and design. I hope it helps Yuba's business even more. I'm not familiar with the other brand, but after looking, I'm still partial to the longtail design where that's designed into the frame, like with the Yuba and RadWagon bikes. Lectric also has a good longtail frame and overall design, and a price under $2k.

[@kellylingus]

@@Jinnitaur add on batteries may not be the best idea. Are they UL tested? Who will work on them as your local bicycle store will, maybe, be trained in Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha etc. If you want electric get the Kombi 5(?). Shimano battery and motor, Reliable and safe

[@wsams]

I'd give it a 10/10 ❤

[@hyleslie]

Curious that none of the cargo bike material from Edmonton is here. Will that be coming in a later episode?

[@Thepuffingyank]

do you make a seperate trip for fresh puns?

[@ManningKent]

I use the cargo bike all the time, one of the reasons we really need the minivan is to haul around the little baby and to take the 250 mile trip home to see family. There's no other way to really get to the grandparents

[@aynt_2065]

Just starting the video. Nice Two Wheel Gear bag! I have the same Olive Green Convertible on my e-bike commuter and it's a hell of a lot better than having to lug a bag on my back.

[@charthepirate]

Ironically the one thing keeping me from picking up a cargo bike as an urban dad is figuring out where to store it. That said, I'm in a very urban area and my kids are getting old enough that they can start riding on their own to locations too, that helps.

[@markifi]

have you seen the Muli?

[@BradFonseca]

Thanks again for the informative video. My one quibble is your Costco run. We're a family of four and we get waaaay more stuff on a typical shopping trip to Costco. Unlike a regular local grocery store, we only go to Costco once every couple weeks so we'd have a lot more things to bring home. I admit I don't know how much cargo space that e-bike has versus the trunk/boot of a car plus the back seats but it would interest me to compare. Anyway, that's my observation. Cheers!

[@Nonkel_Jef]

Depends on the bike, but most cargo bikes can fit more groceries than a shopping cart

[@Shifter_Cycling]

It certainly wasn’t a full Costco run, but to by honest, I didn’t want to have a full load of groceries spoil as a shot a video all day, lol! But the bike could certainly haul a whole lot more than I had there. Think of it this way: that box on the bike is about the same size as an oversized Costco shopping cart. Thanks again for the support

[@BradFonseca]

@@Nonkel_Jef Thanks, I should really go see a cargo bike up close but if it holds as much or more groceries than a shopping cart then my quibble is resolved. :)

[@BradFonseca]

@@Shifter_Cycling Not being a filmmaker, I forget about how long it takes to shoot even a short video. You certainly wouldn't want to waste a cartload of groceries. As I mentioned to @Nonkel_Jef I haven't seen a cargo bike up close so I didn't realize that they can carry as much as a Costco shopping cart. Now to convince my spouse.... 😁

[@stephenfulford6227]

Is winter cycling an option for this and other e-bikes? I'd be concerned about battery degradation and corrosion from the snow/water and salt.

[@ekcs3941]

Got an urban arrow and a tern GSD in London UK, I did try the load 75 but IMO the box is too small. UA may not be as smooth but the kids have lots of space you can fit three comfortably, where as the footwell in the load75 is tiny. So that (the UA) more of a mini van IMO! Some kinda trike like bunch bikes too would probably fit someone who has more then 3 kids too. we dont own a car also!

[@emma70707]

Yeah, RM makes amazing, smooth bikes, but for hauling capacity, I do think of Urban Arrow. RM does have the ability to customize theirs though (at least they mentioned that at a trade show) so of you always hauled kids + hockey gear, like in the video, they could probably come up with a solution. Pros and cons.

[@ekcs3941]

@@emma70707 yeah it’s true although I tried both side by side and given the hype around R&M I thought I’d be blown away but I actually was more blown away by the UA funnily enough. I found bouncing around with the suspension a bit of an odd feeling 😆. The dealers were really selling the load to me though 😆! Everyone is looking for something different so the more bikes on the market the better

[@TroubleshootGamingMeds]

Wow i never knew you wrote a book!

[@hyleslie]

Frostbike. About winterbiking.

[@TroubleshootGamingMeds]

@hyleslie oh I saw! It was in the description. Gonna order a copy for sure. Big Tom fan.

[@WhitneyOpfar]

It would have been better if you could borrow a couple kids to do your trips with. I own a bucket bike and yes I use it to grocery shop but you have to take into account that kids take up space too. Last week I took my two older boys (8 & 10) in the bike to Sams club. We did a bit of Tetris to get everyone and everything fit snuggly. I bought them some kettle corn for the ride home so they were all good with it 😂❤

[@lthmosch]

Thank you 🙏

[@Shifter_Cycling]

Thank you very much for the emailing shoe of support for this channel. It means a lot.

[@emiwekwert1646]

I run a tree care company and we use larry vs harry e cargos, its fun🎉

[@Deckzwabber]

If your city's or town's cycling infrastructure permits it, this is a great tool for households to get rid of one of their cars.

[@ScottMcCulloughBmax419]

Fun video! I wish an electric cargo bike would work for my circumstances, but for now it wouldn't be a justifiable investment. Hopefully in the future I can add one to my stable. P.S.: I love your practical, low-key approach and refreshing lack of the insufferable smugness that infects so many urbanist channels. I always look forward to your new releases.

[@yutyuiiu]

" insufferable smugness " ....whaaat?

[@DraconianEmpath]

I would love to see how this stacks up in an area without bike lanes. I have to find some pretty funky / circuitous routing to find roads with any kind of shoulder / sidewalk to ride on. I also have to hunt for speed limits at or under 35mph (55kph). would an ebike be able to ride on the road with cars for short periods if needed? I'm thinking of a few intersections / bridges that are downright scary to navigate for anything that can't keep up with car traffic.

[@markifi]

i'd be looking at a fast rolling bike like the ginkgo and unlock the maximum assist speed with the help of either some some techy friend or online tutorials (no idea how easy or difficult this is with the brose unit it has). the faster riese müllers also go up to 28 miles per hour stock, but a riese müller load electric is ridiculously expensive. i think pretty much all bikes are capable of short bursts of over 35 mph, it's just illegal everywhere to sell them configured to be able to do it. but large wheels and efficient bike is a good start i think. also while you're going fast, expect the battery going down over 15 Wh per mile, so a regular battery might be empty in 20-30 miles of doing that. wire insulation in the motors can melt down too, glue can fail under the magnets. strictly momentary fast sections are totally fine probably, or longer ones if you yourself are very strong and can aid the motor. or the fancy-schmancy cooling fluid hub motors from grin technologies canada, which might not have no such problem with heat. otherwise wouldn't an electric motorcycle with a trailer suit you better? those go like stink and they do so for hours. some of the one wheel dual sport motorcycle trailers are really nice

[@sarahpercifield904]

Our e-bike has saved us so much money and time. Regret buying the one we did though. Really want a trike for better ease of getting around.

[@extrastuff9463]

Seems like a very practical setup, the front wheel being small and kinda out of sight would concern me a bit at first but I'm sure one gets used to it by being better at looking ahead. The long vehicle that's harder to maneuver will require it anyway. But this is probably not an issue for the average normal person, due to my lower back issues I like to avoid all unneeded major bumps on my rides during the bad days or slow down if they can't be avoided. I know you already demonstrated it can easily haul groceries, it would've been interesting to see you try to load it to the maximum weight/volume (whatever limit is reached first). I suspect you could load a lot into this especially when adding items to the rack at the back as well. I didn't recognise the Bosch display version this cargo bike used, does it also have options to connect a phone to it? My current relatively recent ebike with the "Bosch smart system" can have a phone connected to it by bluetooth. In the app you can tweak some of the support modes to react a bit quicker/slower, increase/reduce the assistance and also lower the max speed at which support drops out. But the most useful feature for me is navigation on the display unit without a phone holder, just enter the destination in the app and it gets me there every time so far. It beeps a bit before an intersection/turn where I have to make a choice, has a nice simplified map showing the shape of the route. And it's upcoming turn indications typically start showing around 100m before reaching it and also appear over the other non-map display modes. Reducing the pedal assist cutoff speed might seem a bit silly but it can be useful. For example with elderly people getting used to an ebike, reducing it to 15 km/h initially can let them adjust a bit more safely to it. I've also reduced mine to 24 km/h once on a long ride with a friend when we noticed his assistance switched off at a slightly lower speed than mine. And another way to use it can be to force the rider to do more of the work thus also increasing the range on one battery charge.

[@DonMoretalk]

I'd love to see a spec sheet of the bike in the video (maybe at the end?). This could include things like price, range, hauling capacity (amount of kids, kilogramm), dimensions, weigth. Also, can there be fitted a roof or cover of some sort for the cargo area?

[@mick0matic]

You can also just fit all of that stuff on a normal bike with a rack on the steering wheel and some big pannier bags, add a backpack and you can carry loads (yes even 3 kids). People also seem to forget that the rack over the rear wheel can carry loads (it may say 25kg max load but thats nonsense, it easily takes a full grown person or a few crates of beer) Keep in mind that mostly youre not hauling anything when riding a bike so why not just buy a regular bike? (for 1/10th of the price) To me the cargo bike is similar to a pickup, its big, heavy and only used to full capacity ever once in a while. For most people its just ineficient. Where i live alot of people have cargo bikes and mostly they drive around empty (similar to pickup trucks) You also cant park them in a bikerack so you will take up alot of sidewalk space. If they could fold up to be more compact and efficient i'd be for them but as they are now, they need to be electric because of weight and theyre just too big for daily use.

[@lakrids-pibe]

Well, a non-electric cargo bike is less expensive. You can save a few bobs in exchange for more workout.

[@Shifter_Cycling]

Yes, this is a great point. If that upfront cost of an electric cargo bike is too much, you can save a lot of money going with a non-electric model. And your thighs might thank you

[@Withpeace7597]

Age, muscle mass, hills ( calgary has many) all factor into this.

[@chow-chihuang4903]

Longtail cargo e-bikes retail for less than front-loaders, which may fit more budgets.

[@eslachance]

While I do agree that a cargo bike would absolutely replace my car for almost all of the remaining things I do with it (groceries alone and maybe driving my daughter somewhere local), I disagree with the premise that you can replace a minivan with it. You test with one kid for hockey, and like, $50 of groceries at Costco, but the real use of a minivan is a family of 2 adults and 3-4 kids they have to haul around everywhere, and the cargo bike ain't replacing *that* any time soon. It's a cute test, for sure. I do agree that it vastly reduces the need for a car if you only have one kid or if you do groceries more than once a week. But replacing a 6 passenger minivan? No, not really, no. (I say this from a position of not actually having, needing, or having the intention to buy a minivan - I am simply being a realist, and also perhaps playing devil's advocate here, in that you're wrong in the premise and title of the video)

[@Self_Proppelled]

I can fit a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood in my van. Can your bicycle do that? I love cycling but if you own an old home like me there wll always be a need a bike can't fill.

[@jeffsweeney312]

How about a trip to Home Depot to pick-up some drywall? That used to be possible with a minivan. Pop out the rear seats and it would haul 4x8 sheets with the rear hatch closed. Probably can't do that with a newer minivan, though.

[@Shifter_Cycling]

You can't even do this with a pickup truck anymore. But I bet with some mods and careful riding, you could make it happen with a cargo bike

[@TheSpaceBrosShow]

@@Shifter_Cycling Saw a guy struggling with a Costco TV purchase being 'loaded' into his pickup truck bed. I thought that was the whole point of having a big dumb truck 🤭

[@yutyuiiu]

I rebuilt an entire kitchen ( Ikea ) in an apartment in the Hague, using only a regular bike and the occasional rental of a electric cargo bike. The cargo bike was a dream to ride ( Ikea was 8.4km away from flat.

[@geoff5623]

I rented a car-share minivan (2019 Kia Sedona) to haul a 4x8 styrofoam insulation sheet - I had to move the drivers seat uncomfortably far forward and remove the front headrests to make it fit 😬

[@ClintonAllenAnderson]

If I was getting drywall from Home Depot, I'd be paying for delivery