Babylon 5: 25 Years Later - Is it still worth watching?

[@Nikioko]

Short answer: Yes. It is probably the best sci-fi show ever and more up to date than ever.

[@christianemden7637]

Complete agreement, naturally I’m biased in my opinion as i have loved this show for many years. Effects might be old fashioned, but good storytelling never goes out of style.

[@themisspultone]

Long answer heck yes :)

[@memento81]

If it came out with the same storylines todays there would be people accusing it of being too woke and political.

[@Nikioko]

@@memento81 Political? Yes. Woke? No.

[@danny117fc]

it was great... then we got the expanse and battlestar.. so its hard to say

[@jplayer073]

The O'Hare story is incredible. How much effort they put into to help him and make sure he was cared for.

[@RA10H56]

He was such a wonderful actor. If your a fan of 90s procedural police shows, he pops up as a featured guest in the episodes and his presence is inspiring

[@sskoog]

A sad struggle. Straczynski's narrative suggests O'Hare would "backslide" during the course of the day, worse with fatigue, seeing secret messages in the newspapers and such. Basically meant they had to work as home healthcare attendants in addition to their day-to-day filmmaking gigs. I don't blame JMS for cutting the guy free; he did everything he could to float him that year.

[@hulkhatepunybanner]

*Jerry Doyle death seems even more tragic.* Chronic alcoholism was stated as a factor by officials.

[@Dhips.]

@@hulkhatepunybanner Learning about that cut deep.

[@Cap610]

In Valen's name.

[@michaelgj23]

Michael O’hare’s exit was so well executed that I didn’t realize they had to write him out of the show. I thought they had it planned all along.

[@karlheath4327]

J Michael Straczynski has stated that he had detailed trapdoor stories for each major character, so that if a person left the show their departure was in character and propelled the story forward, it is a testament to his character that he helped Michael O'Hare with everything after he left the show

[@javeedsultan8484]

At the time I was really picked when Michael was dropped, I really enjoyed his character, and other series I had watched where one off the leads were dropped were the worst for it but obviously we all now know what Michael was going through, But fortunately it was handled and done brilliantly Is it still worth watch today, That's one question that every fan will answer with a resounding YES. I'm in my 60's and still rematch Babylon 5, and read all the novels, I can tell you Babylon 5 is only one of a had full of series that I can watch from start to finish without getting bored half way through The writings good, the casting is brilliant, and the chemistry between characters is marvelous. Who would have thought after watching The Gathering that G'kar and Londo's characters personality would turnout to be completely different at the end

[@crwydryny]

One of my favourite facts is that despite his illness he memorised and performed that whole bit where he introduces world religions in one take

[@Warpfield]

Wife & I binge watch it every couple of years. Real shame most of the main actors in the series are gone.

[@nigelft]

I can't think of any other series, from 25 years ago, where so many of the main cast has gone Beyond the Rim ... Which makes the possible reboot galling ... ... After all, you _can't_ hope to replicate _that_ famous speech by Delenn, without that epic line delivery: "Only one human Captain has ever survived the Mimbari. He is behind me; you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else ..." ... The ever so slight tremble in her voice meant she didn't want to be the first person to strike. But, if needs must ... ... hence que the human Fleet scurrying to form Jump Points, and getting the hell out of there ... for when facing an enemy that doesn't even fear death ... run. Once it got into it's strides, and any fear of cancellation was abated, that was when JMS stopped playing it safe, and simply allowed the writers, and actors, off the leash ... and it showed ...

[@mayra3277]

@@nigelft I obviously can't speak for all shows from that time, but the original Star Trek makes an interesting point of comparison... It's 56 years old now (not counting the pilot), B5 is 28 not counting the pilot, so one could say TOS is twice as old. Yet a lower percentage of the main cast has passed away (roughly 42.8% for TOS vs. 46.7% for B5 - not counting Na'Toth and Keffer as main characters here). More jarring: the first TOS main cast member passed 30 years after the show ended. 20 years after their end B5 has lost 6. I've heard someone say something interesting somewhere (either on KZbin or a podcast - it might have been an older podcast, but I'm not fully sure anymore): You could essentially film a new TNG movie tomorrow (and that show now turns 35!) - with B5 that's been impossible for far over a decade.

[@NatsAstrea]

@@nigelft "Dead. Dead. Dead. Dead." Every time I think of the B5 cast, I hear G'Kar saying this in that sepulchral voice to Vir. OTOH, "Don't look away, Captain. All life is transitory, a dream. We all come together in the same place, at the end of time. If I don't see you again here, I will see you, in a little while, in a place where no shadows fall." - Delenn to Sheridan: "Confessions and Lamentations" .

[@spaceman_the_Australien]

@@NatsAstrea I just watched "Confessions and Lamentations" about an hour ago.

[@Zugfaehrtdurch]

I even more liked the beginning of that scene. In fact everything was clear when she just answered "WHY NOT?"

[@missyprime8198]

Others have come close but Babylon 5 is still the greatest sci fi tv series. When it was aired I was dangerously depressed, all that kept me going for years was telling myself that I had to know the end of the story. JMS saved my life with B5. Since Sleeping in light aired I've binge watched at least 4 times a year. I even legally changed my name to Delenn

[@fw.fatherjamal]

Noice

[@drevilatwork]

Similar story here

[@colinfarren8326]

Lol

[@jackburton806]

Until The Expanse happened, this was the end all be all of space opera. The 5 year arc was genius. The stories within the stories just spiraled to ever more enjoyment. I am glad this show had such an impact on you. I toyed with changing my name to Zathras but since there were 7 ways to pronounce it I backed out.

[@Deridus]

Ma'am? This may be random, but thanks for being awesome. Cheers!

[@andreievkalupniek5717]

I must have watched the whole series more than 10 times by this point and it always manages to get very emotional at the end… this is the best sci-if show ever!

[@ianstuart5660]

Agreed!!

[@zazzy6758]

i can't help but to cry every time.

[@RELAXcowboy]

I bawl my eyes out on the last episode. Every time. "it's a pretty day, the perfect day for a Sunday drive"

[@richardmattocks]

The Babylon project was a dream given form. Never a truer word spoken. This show is unsurpassed even all these years later.

[@Wearyman]

B5 was one of my favorites back in the day. I never missed an episode and I now have the entire series stored on my server at home. I have rewatched it from beginning to end (including the movies) at least 5 times in the last 25 years, and I will at least a few more times before my end. As much as I like Star Trek and Star Wars, none of them MOVED me like B5 did. Despite all it's corny, and cheesy moments, it remains the best Sci-fi series of all time.

[@Sir_Leader_Official]

SO TRUE!

[@TearYouApart360]

B5's & DS9's serialized storytelling is what makes them perfect for streaming. Which is why both shows have gained in popularity since coming to streaming networks. Edit: I'm glad I'm not the only one who answers the Kirk or Picard question with Sisko.

[@redkommie80]

The same with whom is my captain. Sisko knew about tough choices. And he was ready for a fight.

[@chheinrich8486]

I answer with either James holden, john sheridan or jeffrey sinclair, OR EVEN BETTER, William adama

[@crowbar_the_rogue]

DS9 is as good as sci-fi gets while the weaker fourth season (in my opinion) puts Babylon 5 in a close second.

[@jefferydraper4019]

Sisko has become one of my favorites. I never was impressed with the Picard character...still not. Patrick Stewart is a great actor, but Picard seemed to be wishy-washy about a lot of his conduct. A little too much moral-aggrandizing. Sisko actually had to grow into something he was not at the beginning. He became the Emissary by the end.

[@porterwake3898]

Picard is a far better captain. Avery Brooks's acting is just terrible.

[@SlothsPlayGames]

This is a criminally underrated look at the series. I thought I knew everything about this show, right down to the production and I learned some stuff here.

[@michaelgj23]

Me too

[@hulkhatepunybanner]

*Like Babylon 5, this retrospective suffers from having only one writer.* At least, the series won 2 Emmys.

[@derrickmarais]

I think in a post Game of Thrones world there seems to be a greater appreciation for what JMS accomplished. Plot out the whole thing ahead of time but with enough room to maneuver in case of unexpected cast changes or threats of cancelation. Unfortunately no one wants to do that amount of work on a project that could be canceled half a season in.

[@juriskrumgolds5810]

This is a show where you can talk for hours about various flaws, dated effects and CGI, unresolved plotpoints, bad episodes and overall doom of corporate culture jeopardizing the entire cause. And still the answer to the question "should I watch it" would be a massive and unapologetic YES! And don't you dare not to do! I've been a hardcore fan since I watched it on Russian television in late 90's. And still suggest it to my younger friends.

[@miller-joel]

Its flaws and weaknesses are easy to forgive because they are not so offensive, and when it's good, it's SOOO GOOOOD. The weakest Star Trek episodes, on the other hand, are unwatchable.

[@SpielkindFR]

B5 has some weak episodes. But there are like 2 or 3 I would consider actually bad. Meanwhile at its best moments it still stands shoulder to shoulder with some of the best shows ever. Just think of "intersection in real time", one set, two actors, four extras and its one of the best pieces of television ever.

[@juriskrumgolds5810]

@@SpielkindFR "Intersections in real time" is my all time favourite B5 episode, it really stands out!

[@SpielkindFR]

@@juriskrumgolds5810 Its a masterpiece. In my opinion the peak of the show.

[@alanparsonsfan]

Babylon 5 is kulturny!

[@-ShiraZen-]

14:46 "People still care about Opera?" I'd think that Centuari would love Opera music simply because their entire culture is very heavily Roman influenced. Plus their entire culture is literally "Peacocking" from their hairstyles to their government to their personalities. It would only go to show their preferred artform is something highly dramatic.

[@henrikherranen2610]

Exactly. Western opera is a 400 year old art form and it is still being listened to. Chinese opera has been performed for almost 2000 years. Why would it be incredible that Centauri and Narn equivalent of opera would exist 240 years into the future?

[@mcwolf1096]

People have cared about opera for centuries already, almost half a millennium by now. I see no reason for that interest to decline another two hundred years down the road...

[@howtonamethisstupidmailbox55]

There's absolutely no way to predict What people would like in 300 years, so why not Opera?

[@tensaibr]

Yeah that remark was very subjective and above anything, quite uncultivated.

[@saurondp]

Indeed. Opera isn't that popular in North America, but it's still a big deal in Europe. Same with other art forms like ballet dancing. Even if it's not at the height of pop culture, it takes on a lasting legacy that holds on to a cadre of fans.

[@reticenti6365]

That season 3 intro score, perfect! Still gives me chills.

[@HungryAndorian]

I'm a massive sci fi fan but I completely skipped Bab 5 when it came out for some unknown reason probably because my friends were into trek at the time. I just started watching it on HBOMax on a whim (after wasting 15 bucks for the new matrix movie) and I was absolutely enthralled with this show. In three weeks i'm nearly done with all 5 seasons. I knew very little about the plot and alien races and essentially watched it spolier free and my mind is blown. Yes there are some very badly acted scenes which explains perhaps why I passed it up on it's initial run but once I got invested in the show and saw how the story developed I was amazed at the scope of the show and the acting. Although it was a completely random chance that I started watching it, I can say that I feel like I've opened some long lost legendary time capsule which has changed my life. I feel like the universe has smiled upon me for showing me the bromance of Londo and G'kar.

[@sdfried4877]

It’s great stuff. The show was run almost like a pirate operation. Their budget was 1/4 that of its Star Trek competitors. CGI was used because there was no way they could afford to run a model shop and although they started off a bit dinky, the effects improved quickly and are aesthetically beautiful. They couldn’t afford the rent to film at studios in Hollywood or Vancouver so they purchased an abandoned hot tub factory in the hills and turned it into Babylon 5. Not one shot was ever filmed outside. The budget had to be spread out so if one episode was epic and cost a lot, the next one would take place on the station and be dialogue driven. On the flip side, he would also do this in advance of the big episodes so the digital guys had time to complete the big assignments. Unlike other shows, however, the talky talky episodes are sometimes the best as JMS says, sometimes the best scenes are just two characters in a room. Unfortunately, their budget for actors was limited as well, which is why you had so many unknown or lesser known actors on the show. Additionally, bit parts tended to be filled be really really unknown actors who were not always up to snuff and often you had actors who did not speak and would merely nod because if they speak, they go from being extras to actors. So you can see how constraining this would be to production. Some of the best films ever made, including Jaws and Star Wars, were created under tremendous budgetary and creative pressure but the filmmakers rose above it and the results are history. Sometimes more budget and more powerful filmmaking tools just results in less creativity. We have the tools now to visualize anything we can dream of, but we’re running short on writers who can dream.

[@Edcognito]

@@sdfried4877 Harlan Ellison had a *lot* to do with how well the dialogue was written. Hell to work with, great for your story!

[@sdfried4877]

@@Edcognito I don’t know about that. Ellison’s role was conceptual consultant. He was told to bitch about anything he saw and didn’t like, but JMS has never credited him with helping with the writing that I can recall.

[@crinolynneendymion8755]

"probably passed it up" because of some "very badly acted scenes"? And you and your friends were locked into Trek at the time? Curious about your definition of bad acting...

[@sdfried4877]

@@crinolynneendymion8755 The first season is undeniably rough. Sinclair’s delivery was to me always sort of “off”. Knowing now that he was on medication for schizophrenia, I can certainly sympathize. Ivanova started out stiff and Garibaldi was overly glib. It should be noted that every actor on the show improved over time except Pat Tallman. I can’t think of a great performance from her as her scenes range from adequate to cringe. Likewise, my opinion of Bruce Boxleitner went from “tv star” to “actor” by the time the show was over. Boxleitner admitted 20 years ago that, as an actor, he would never again have a job as good as B5. I should note that in Season 1 of Star Trek: The Next Generation all the actors sucked - even the hammy Patrick Stewart, but they grew and improved as well.

[@sgd5k292]

I hated when this video ended almost as much as I hated when Babylon 5 ended! Great job!! Subscribed.

[@willb289]

I think you put words to, well, not my thought, but feelings. When I think of that now, I too hate that this video ended.

[@CMDR_Verm]

That was a fantastic 47 minute look at what is one of my favourite TV series. Something in particular you said, and I may be paraphrasing, ''Babylon 5 treated its viewers with intelligence'' and that is appreciated. B5 was the one show that both my wife and I enjoyed watching together and we were both moved to tears by the ''Sleeping In Light'' episode. It will live on in history as a monument to what can be done with an SF story if it is done right. Thank you for bringing back so many good memories.

[@ScalinoCorleone]

Ooooh...! I'd never seen that majestically performed middle finger shot... :) Goes right into my main gallery...! Thanks!

[@plokiju8876]

I will never forget that first season intro. I knew I was going to be hooked on this show from the beginning.

[@patriottex4813]

The themes explored in this show are as relevant today as they were then. I have watched it through it 3 times, and with each rewatch I see how complex this show is. I recommend it heavily to anyone. The cast and world building is done so well the cheap sets do not distract because the story absorbs you!

[@Toshiro_Mifune]

about opera: we still listen to it hundreds of years later, besides it matched the theme of the centauri. also: ds9 had the klingon opera scenes. hell i like opera and classical music, try watching requiem with an orchestra live and then let's talk about how the experience was. just because it's a grandpa thing doesn't mean it's bad.

[@SumBrennus]

Did you know that Retro-encabulators were installed on the new Astropdyne Model 701-Rs? Their Quantum phase shift capacity received a boost of over 20%!

[@voidstarq]

On my two-and-a-half'th viewing of B5 -- my first full beginning-to-end intensive viewing, once I had the DVDs -- I was struck by the amazing character performance Michael O'Hare gave as Cdr. Sinclair, especially toward the end of Season One. Not to point to any particular scene, I just felt there was a *velocity* to it. With all the various threads of events going on -- the mysteries, the crises, the conspiracies -- you could see the stress beginning to take its toll on him. He was a man holding it together because he had to, because so many others were counting on him. He never broke down, or even let it show in any substantial way, but there was a *hunted* look in his eyes toward the end. But then, only many years later, I learned about the backstory of the real-life mental health issues he was struggling with during production. And that adds such a layer of extra depth, doesn't it?

[@rizon72]

Rewatching it I do cringe a bit at the hinted romance between Sinclair and Delenn. Having Sinclair go back and become Valan really makes his character in season 1 better.

[@sskoog]

I haven't read the published proto-scripts, which shed a bit of light on this -- but supposedly there was a more literal-Tolkien "Aragorn [Sinclair] goes to Mordor [Z'hadum], waging a suicidal battle to rescue his love Arwen [Delenn]" plot in the initial simpler arc. Presumably some of the time-travel/predestined-champion stuff would have happened then. Delenn's original dialogue suggests that she knew something about Kosh + Sinclair's roles in history, however vague or mythological.

[@MelkorPT]

I dropped out half way through the first season, then accidentally caught an episode of the second half of season 2 and was like "holy crap, this is good now?" And it was awesome! Truly revolutionary storytelling for someone who grew up watching the original Battlestar Galactica.

[@LisaMarli]

Ok, I was part of the Usenet group that discussed B5 with JMS. All through the series, we saw other back office people with cameos in the show, but not JMS, he kept saying "I have a special role for me." AND JMS teased us that he knew how it ended, it was actually one of the first scenes he ever had of the show. And that one of the future predictions of B5's ending was correct. That is JMS who plays the technician that throws the switch that blows up Babylon 5 at the end of Sleeping in Light. And yes, the Centauri woman who sees B5 blowing up in its future was seeing the decommissioning of B5 we see in SiL, not some horrific war or accident. This show really needs to be seen 4 to 5 times before you see everything Joe did in all the webs of story telling he did there. Even those of us on Usenet didn't see all the webs Joe was throwing out the first time. And what happened to Crusade was a crime. The story Joe had planned...

[@LisaMarli]

AND Joe is currently plotting. He wants to Battlestar Galactica Babylon 5. A reboot, same names, but twist the story and tell the B5 story all over again. He wants a firm commitment for 5 seasons on a streaming service. That is all we know right now.

[@bluewinds10]

When this aired on Channel 4 in the UK, it was presented in 16/9, I hope the new release will be in widescreen too.

[@georgiannaburton9578]

My brother and I started watching when it first came on. We had to stay up late, 11/12 o clock to watch it. I was amazed then and I'm amazed now. The storyline, the characters. Saw JMS at a convention not long ago and was too tongue tied to tell him how much of an escape and a amazing story I found this to be.

[@Doc-Jon]

33:36 "...before Sol, the sun that orbits the Earth, explodes in a nova." Whoops. Galileo would like a word. 😃 Nice job on the video, brain-fart notwithstanding. I hear B5's getting a Blu-Ray release, they're remastering it for release this Christmas. Well-deserved TLC for a wonderful show.

[@Alessandro-B]

Thank you, loved this. I missed the pilot when it came out, but a friend raved about it, so I watched the series as I was a Trekkie. I have now watched the whole series 3 or 4 times at least (have DVDs). The ark, the characters' ark, and the stories are just brilliant. As you showed Delenn (Mira Furlan, R.I.P) telling the earth ships to withdraw, I got goosebumps, again. 25 years later and with all the re-watches it still makes me emotional. Best SciFi ever.

[@TehJumpingJawa]

"Delenn (Mira Furlan, R.I.P) telling the earth ships to withdraw, I got goosebumps, again" Me too, every time! It's so weird, must be some kind of resonant frequency in either her voice, or the backing track, that's uncomfortable to the human ear. If it was intentional, it was genius editing. Otherwise, just a happy coincidence that creates an incredibly powerful scene.

[@RaymondPorrata]

Thank you for bringing back so many great memories of the show.

[@iczerman]

Yes......When the same scenes that made you cry still make you cry 25 years later.

[@montecorbit8280]

At 0:54 Streaming service for the first time.... I know this was uploaded in 2021, but as of Jan 2024 it is available on Tubi....

[@ThatsMrPencilneck2U]

The first time I saw Babylon V space battle, I had to pick up my jaw off the floor. Years later, I'm watching Star Trek, somebody shouts, "Shields down to 93%," and I turn over, hoping to find something interesting, like an infomercial. That was way back in the 20th Century, long before the slipshod of Jar Jar Abrams and Secret Hideout. As far as technobabble goes, Star Trek was always weak, went down hill, and is still braking new depths in garbage. Babylon V was good, as the writers weren't trying to show off. Years later, Stargate SG1 set the standard for excellence in technobabble.

[@DocHellfish]

What blew my mind as a trek kid till this came along was how much more real the universe seemed.. lived in.. dirty.. it was so well conceived that you could truly step your mind into it. I used to get in trouble in math class for drawing b5 ships and battles.

[@santesia6222]

I remember stumbling across the season 1 finale of B5 and was captivated; I couldn't wait for the next season. I still do a re-watch at least once a year. Best Sci-fi show and space battles ever.

[@bobross8569]

It was never about fancy special FX,it was about telling great stories,with superior writing and acting,the entertainment industry is simply no longer capable of producing anything of this caliber,they try to fool you with fancy CGI and quick cut editing.

[@anniebelanger7562]

Absolutely yes! Best story line series ever. My favorite and still up to date more than ever (Choices and their consequences, ethics, leaders with integrity vs corruption systems on earth, politics, ascension, art of war, etc, ) It’s a journey where you ask yourself what would I have done, what would I have decided? I rewatch the whole series every few years and still am captivated.

[@MageBladeJ]

I watched the whole thing sometime after 2015, never hearing of it beforehand. I loved it.

[@raze667]

14:05 as much as you say this... there is STILL paperwork to be done. The "captains office" was the mess hall, and a few other rooms and just redressed to serve multiple roles. It was a concession to budget. I'm moderately certain EVERY personal quarters was the single room as well, just redressed as needed. At least in the first few seasons.

[@kyrozudesoya1829]

Yeah. They didn't get a proper dedicated Med Lab until Season 3 (which they mention when they're wheeling Marcus in).

[@t.sniffin3031]

B5 was shot on three stages in an old hot tub factory. That's how low budget they were. Still blows my mind.

[@Xenobears]

Pretty sure the opera thing was for the Centauri to reflect their culture. They’re basically a decadent empire in decline, obsessed with old glory and reclaiming their place as the predominant colonizing power in the galaxy. Plus, while operas don’t generally have mass market appeal, they’re very much used as a way of saying “look at me, I’m so smart and sophisticated because I like this high class thing.” That’s very much in line with Londo’s character-he’s obsessed with appearances and being seen enjoying refined art contributes to that.

[@TheHalcyonAnon]

I'm almost finished on a watch through. It's been I think 6 years since I last watched it through. It absolutely still holds up.

[@residentgrey]

Please look into Earth: Final Conflict, and Alien Nation. They both have curious merits and I love them for their own reasons. Even recent watchings of some episodes of the latter again exposed new thinking. I realized what I thought was more subtle was brazen, and I loved it all more.

[@this.is.a.username]

Medusa Crusade on YT is doing reactions of every B5 episode, she's up to s3e4

[@henrikherranen2610]

Medusa Cascade. She's fun. If you go there, please don't write spoilers or even "witty" this-is-not-a-spoiler-but... comments.

[@Nikioko]

@@henrikherranen2610 She is almost through season 3. The YT releases are delayed. For a good reason.

[@henrikherranen2610]

@@Nikioko Exactly.

[@christianemden7637]

She shows the same kind of bright eyed excitement, i experienced watching the show for the first time, but she is smarter than me asking the right questions right away.

[@Karajorma]

Even further if you're a patreon.

[@listerofsmeg884]

Regards your comment about opera: It is a genre that has already been around for over 200 years. Why wouldn't it still be around 200 years hence? Cool to see a clip of Red Dwarf though. 33:40 'sun that orbits the earth'?! Guessing that was a misspeak .

[@briann7376]

I missed seeing it when it first came out. Someone told me at a "Millionaire Mind" workshop in 2005 that I needed to see B-5. I bought the complete first season on CD a few years later. I was blown away and then watched the first season several times before buying the 2nd and 3rd season. Needless to say, I eventually bought the remainder. I wore out the CDs over the following years. Just finished watching the entire 5 seasons on TV, as of yesterday. I've got to say, this series is timeless, and I'm still moved by the script and acting. I give the series 5 stars. Too many of the actors have passed over "The Rim" so I find it difficult to have a Reboot on B-5. There are a lot of doors still open for spin offs, to answer unresolved questions, but I wouldn't call it B-5.

[@raidenblade9971]

Dam right it still HOLDS UP and it's DAM GOOD.

[@juliadagnall5816]

I’m a little too young to have really watched B5 on its first run, but I watched the DVDs later as a young adult and it is one of my favorite series. Of course it’s a little clumsy in spots, but I think its silly to expect any series to be perfect. The real question is: is the whole better than the sum of its parts? With Babylon 5 the answer is yes. They took the limitations of budget and technology and made it work for them. Even the fifth season really isn’t that bad. Personally I think the whole thing is worth it just for the episode The Fall of Centauri Prime, but in a way I like the theme that even after all the Big Bads of season 4 have been defeated there’s still more that needs to be done. All the stuff that could be shoved off to the side while they were dealing with the galaxy-ending crisis before is back on the table, and there aren’t any easy answers. Narratively it may not be as satisfying, but to me it makes the B5 universe more real.

[@rmsgrey]

Yeah, both first and fifth seasons have some very skippable episodes (though I'm not sure I could find a single episode without any redeeming features) but pretty much the entire back half of S5 (starting from The Corps Is Mother, The Corps Is Father) is solid, and only let down by both the lead-in from the first half of the season (though the first few episodes are also good) and the comparison with the breakneck S4. It's no secret that JMS was partly inspired by Lord of the Rings, and episodes 14-18 of S5 in particular are B5's Scouring of the Shire - the discovery that, while the greater menace has passed, some minions of the Shadow(s) are still around, and have struck close to home - the final, lesser, burst of action to break up the many endings before the final four episodes assign characters to their lasting fates and the new status quo.

[@The_Fat_Controller.]

@@rmsgrey There are some episodes I just cannot bear to watch and skip over. "GROPOS" and "A View From the Gallery" are at the top of my list of unwatchability. "GROPOS" has insufferably annoying dialogue, too many Private First Class characters being played by actors old enough to be mid to senior level sergeants, and even though I try to make allowances for limitations in CGI effects in the 1990s, the attack on the fortress at the end just looked bad visually. I feel like "GROPOS" was written by someone who watched _Stripes_ and _Private Benjamin_ and _Black Sheep Squadron_ and _CPO Sharkey_ and felt that they were totally accurate portrayals of military life. "A View From the Gallery" is an episode with two characters whose every appearance and utterance annoys the bejeezus out of me.

[@velazquezn]

I born in 1988 and I still enjoying 90s shows 00s (Babylon 5, Star Trek, Stargate, Sliders, The outer limits, Farscape...) . Mostly because I listen to them than watch in another screen. Why I like the most is the script, they make an entire plot for 1 episode that nowadays will be an entire season.

[@spacecowboy2957]

Joe Michael Straczynski is a creative genius with extensive credits and nearly all forms of entertainment media. Yes, B5 used digital effects in every episode to bring down costs but it also set the standard for using CGI effects in TV shows and movies since then. Without B5, we'd never have gotten the MCU franchise or LOTR or Star Wars prequels as we know them, or maybe not even at all. And, yes, B5 had amazing and over-the-top makeup effects. According to Joe Straczynski, Star Trek's mediocre makeup effects were simply called "the forehead of the week" as most aliens who weren't designed as staple races for frequent recurrence simply had a cheap appliance glued to the forehead. There was a single episode of B5 in which that was done for a one-off appearance of a race that was never reused later and Joe comments on this matter in the commentary. B5 used Newtonian physics fundamentally for all spacecraft and especially for fighter combat that made it look significantly more realistic than what was coming from other shows. It set the standard for several other space scifi shows including Firefly & The Expanse. The set design for B5 was done brilliantly by a team of Broadway designers who used rearrangeable, modular set pieces and extremely creative set dressings to optimize set variation. It brilliantly kept production costs extremely low for sets and also made for a highly-flexible variability that allowed each set to look so unique and distinct.

[@milescoburn1845]

In the 1993 Primetime Emmy Awards, Babylon 5 won for Outstanding Individual Achievement in Special Visual Effects. And in the 1994 Primetime Emmy Awards, Babylon 5 won for Outstanding Individual Achievement in Makeup for a Series.

[@residentgrey]

It is ALWAYS worth watching! Two words: G'Kar's SPEECH. NUFF SAID. LET FREEDOM RING! The way he became Londo's sworn protector THE DESTROYER OF NARN was EPIC!!! They did it so well...The allegory was brilliant. Star Trek sweated.

[@benspencer8253]

I watched B5 for the first time in 2021. I would say its worth looking past some of the shows more dated aspects for the story, characters and themes spread across its five seasons. Interesting point on how some TV shows have bad endings. Aside from B5, another great series that was planned out (for the most part anyways) and had a strong ending was 12 Monkeys.

[@mayra3277]

Have you seen Crusade as well? I think watching it (both B5 and Crusade) for the first time in 2020 probably made that show appeal to me more than it might have otherwise, I wonder if that sentiment is shared by others!

[@BIATEC88]

@@mayra3277 is that the show with the techno mage played by Edward WoodWood's son Peter Wood Wood I think he maybe called

[@mayra3277]

@@BIATEC88 yes! Technomage Galen is played by Peter Woodward, and his father Edward Woodward also appears in one episode.

[@lanokia]

That was quality. Wondering what you made of The Road Home.

[@TheMastermind729]

To this day nobody has ever made (to my knowledge) a show like JMS did with B5, where he wrote almost every single episode himself and knew the story for all of the seasons before the show even began. It was and remains extremely impressive and it's a shame that nobody else with that kind of vision has come around.

[@scottmalchow3428]

TV network executives are small petty frogs in a small pond. And have no vision beyond the edge of that pond. They are to be pitied for not having better vision.

[@Dhips.]

The Expanse is great, but they have the benefit of following the books, give or take some details.

[@BaseDeltaZero1972]

Story, characters, actors, script, dialogue, chemistry - all well above and beyond what most other TV shows could manage then or now. Watched some upscaled 4k clips recently, the make-up on the G'kar was incredible...it seems the only weakness to be found in this show even after decades is the dated CGI - Thats it, one flaw woven into a total masterpiece.

[@MetaStatistical]

I'd argue that their choice to use CGI almost exclusively in space made the best use of its abilities at the time. Shiny, metallic surfaces, colorful ships, and explosions. Though, all sci-fi shows during the 90s still suffered from low-def CGI mastering processes that made upgrading those aspects difficult and, in the case of ST:TNG, expensive.

[@xagon2012]

I watched Babylon 5 for the first time in 2016 and loved it. Definitely worth it. One of the best story arcs I've seen in a television series.

[@biocapsule7311]

Regarding the use of 'paper' in the future. Some sci-fi novel has pointed out that it's actually more important. While most of the world is starting to move digital, having a 'hard copy' of something important becomes necessary. Because it is easy to altered a digital copy, if a hard copy exist somewhere, alterations become more difficult. And no, not some future tech paper, actual paper document can become important.

[@shaggycan]

10:05 character development and pacing. Babylon 5 is paced very much like Lord of the Rings...the book not the film. In fact Babylon 5 is basically LOTR in a sci fi setting. Instead of a ring, it's about Sauron and Gandalf having a showdown over how the free peoples of middle earth should be governed, which is basically what LOTR is about anyway if you think about it.

[@mcwolf1096]

"The five seasons of Babylon 5, which all correspond to a year of story time, were designed to be equivalent to the five parts of a novel: introduction, rising action, complication, climax and denouement." - JMS 😊

[@DoremiFasolatido1979]

Yeah...except the Vorlons are Sauron...and the Shadows are Gandalf, in that scenario. The Vorlons believe everyone should be ruled in some way, that true advancement is only possible when directed. The Shadows believe everything should be basically anarchy...that chaos drives potential, and order stifles it. Sauron wanted to rule everything, and destroy all that wouldn't be ruled. Gandalf just wanted everyone to do their own thing in a vaguely cooperative way to stop that from happening.

[@mcwolf1096]

@@DoremiFasolatido1979 Thanks for refuting your own initial claim right there. Means nobody else needs to do that 😁

[@BIATEC88]

@@DoremiFasolatido1979 OK I can go with half of that analogy. Vorlons as Sauron OK. But the shadows as Gandalf. 🤔 NO. Not buying into that one

[@zingzangspillip1]

This is not a good analysis. Sauron only cares about Sauron, and Gandalf does not manipulate people, but guides them. Which B5 character is Gollum, or Bilbo, or Denethor?

[@SemperBlood]

I watched the series last year with my wife. It was her first time. She loved it.

[@TheHalcyonAnon]

Season three intro still sends shivers down my spine

[@cliffthompson2033]

Terrific work. This analysis provides a clear-eyed look at my favorite franchise. Thank you for taking the show seriously in both your praise and your criticism. Faith manages indeed.

[@thethirdchimpanzee]

"Gene Roddenberry's Earth: Final Conflict" and "Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda" - to use their full titles - apparently *both* started out taking a que from "Babylon 5" and actually had some story directions mapped out for several seasons in advance. Once I read they were mapped out pretty well, but for whatever reasons the people behind the shows decided to toss them out, and then both shows seemed to lose their ways. I think there had been *some* big behind the scenes hubbaloo on both shows around the end of the first seasons. I never got into Andromeda (just seemed like "Hercules in Space" . And anyway it's back now, only it's called "Star Trek: Discovery") but I REALLY LIKED the first season of "Earth: Final Conflict".

[@backtoearth1983]

AND Deep Space 9.

[@commenter4898]

IIRC Andromeda's season 1 producer left partly because Sorbo wants to be the centre of the show and partly because the execs want the show to be more episodic for casual viewers.

[@ianstuart5660]

Respectfully disagree, loved Andromeda, not so much Final Conflict!

[@STho205]

Roddenberry's various Dylan Hunt series ideas were all based on the 1920s and 30s Phillip Nowlan novels and comics about WW1 US Army Captain William Rogers that you may better know as Buck Rogers. Man asleep for centuries waking up in a post apocalyptic world or galaxy, meeting new allies and then touring all the alternate Earth futures. Eventually even Star Trek TOS/TNG fell into that mold, though it originally was Forbidden Planet the Next Generation when it started in 65 and 66....without the post WW3 society rebuilding they introduced in Space Seed and later episodes.

[@Dmhlcmb]

This is in my top 5 sci if series. The series story arch is one of the best ever written.

[@raverdeath100]

you get a like - just for showing Peter Jurasik/Londo give a double middle finger. edit: speaking of Londo - imo one of the best written characters in television.

[@MetaStatistical]

I loved finding that pic. Had to put it in somewhere.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

Talk about a character that ended up with a chip on his shoulder....

[@wordsofcheresie936]

Londo was easily my favorite character.

[@NevilDouglas]

Loving Londo!

[@Edcognito]

@@MetaStatistical where did you find it!?!?! Started streaming this again tonight, I was blessed with being able to watch B-5 in it's original incarnation, thank god!

[@ryukster666]

Fabulous. Probably the best review, analysis & dedication I've ever seen on Babylon 5 - A triumph of not only a Sci-Fi show but any TV show.

[@DingoDin]

Stays with me as a favourite until today, and I watched it when it actually aired! Inspirational and wise storytelling. Bless JMS (who also engaged fans online before that was even a thing).

[@paulhunter6742]

The best visual aspects for me where aliens. They made sincere effort making them feel alien, like Mantis like creature of B5 underworld, The Packmeral, eaters of dead people and Vorlon who were encounter suit so that couldn't tell what true form actually was...

[@mayra3277]

Now that I've watched all the way through: Marvellous video, thank you! The technobabble compilation had me laughing hysterically, and the analysis was thoughtful. I'll agree to disagree on the season 5 intro (it's my favourite of the bunch, and they are all outstanding in my opinion), but overall I share most of your views. This series definitely still stands up. It took me about five episodes to get over the at first silly-looking Centauri and the fact that even on a small laptop screen some (particularly early) effects shots look blurry. Watching the pilot I got the impression that B5 predicted the smartwatch though - that was interesting... The story is timeless. I wish Crusade had lasted longer - I think it had potential that it never got to unfold. And watching that in mid-2020 made the ISN exposition scenes seem eerily contemporary. I'm very glad I came across this show. Aside from just being a lot of fun to watch, it has taught me a lot. Never trust the status quo, for instance. It can always get worse... but in the end, faith manages. I'm looking forward to be able to discover the reboot at the time it airs now, especially since I'm terrible at avoiding spoilers. But the original will always gave a special place in my heart. I'm near the end of another full rewatch now and already know the ending will have me in tears. Still... Babylon 5 endures.

[@AlexJones-ue1ll]

I feel he was harsh on the season 5 intro as well, really my only complaint I have on the video in general. S5 intro had an epic quality music to it that spoke to the whole scope of the universe the show created - plus contrary to previous seasons, the intro changed a little with every _episode_ ! When the voicelines of previous seasons are played, their volume changes from episode to episode, making a line fade out over the course of the season, while others emerge that were barely audible at the start of the season. I so enjoyed that detail when first watching it.

[@mayra3277]

@@AlexJones-ue1ll Agreed! The PsiCorps version is pretty cool, and just in general I'm a huge fan of the music (as well as the lines). Admittedly in the final episodes the outro kind of doesn't fit the mood super well (proud music after somber/melancholic endings), but it's still amazing. The top 1 'intro' for me though is Sleeping in Light. That alone can bring tears to my eyes without the episode in tow.

[@rodneypayne9505]

Great summary. Babylon 5 remains my favourite Science Fiction experience. I adore this show.

[@self-transforming_machine-elf]

The best space opera to date bar NONE

[@warshrike666]

Dam straight it is, the big shame is that the legends who made the show what it is are no longer with us. This is 1 of the very very best sci-fi's ever made i recommend it to anyone.

[@tonyroid1]

Yes. I even wanted this to be rebooted with better graphics. But then I realized that they just can't capture the magic that this show had. Excellent writing and acting. This was literally the best written show ever at it's time.

[@scottmalchow3428]

The only way to get close to the original show, would be as a stage play, the only reason this might work is due to fewer people attempting to 'fix' that which is NOT broken. I am sorry to say that it will never happen. IF a version ever does get released, it won't be as good. I understand that you will not believe me, try reading several novels transformed into films and comparing them with the screen plays. Especially the ones where the writer / director have not read the 'source' material.

[@dartluke9386]

It doesn't need a reboot. Only remaster

[@tonyroid1]

@dartluke9386 I agree. But seems that they are in the works to reboot it already.

[@vinnalls375]

1760s here - and they still have coffee houses in the 21st century? I like my coffee but to expect the denizens of that far off age to still frequent coffee houses is most unlikely. Nothing ages like the future.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

A couple of my favorite bits of dialogue from the show: *JOHN SHERIDAN:* _"We have an open door policy."_ *SUSAN IVANOVA:* _"And an open airlock policy."_ {and} *VIR KOTTO:* _"Can you and your associates arrange that for me Mr. Morden?"_ 😊😊😊

[@nigelft]

Also: *Susan Ivanova:* _"I am God ..."_ *Delenn:* _"If you value your lives, be somewhere else"_ *Zathras:* (Well, practically everything; genuinely humble, to the point of being poetic)

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

@@nigelft >>> 👍👍

[@misterpdj]

*ALSO VIR:* ☺👋

[@nikolaimiroshnichenko2689]

Why not full quote? "I want to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to next hundred generations that some services come with too high price. I want to look into your lifeless eyes and wave like this 👋 "

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

@@nikolaimiroshnichenko2689 >>> For ME: Unless I am typing on a keyboard on a laptop PC, entering THAT MUCH TEXT {on a smartphone touch screen} is NOT WORTH THE EFFORT.

[@grumpyolddude439]

Yes, it is. I just started another watch thru recently. The show is still relevant to today.

[@davidfigueira8648]

One of the absolute best sci-fi shows made...so much so, I have the five seasons in boxed sets, as well as Crusade's season, the movie collection, and the "Lost Episodes" collection. Hell, I even have both the Starfury and Thunderbolt fighters in my model collection.

[@Deridus]

I was a kid when it first aired, and really liked B5, Sinclaire especially. Being a kid whose life didn't revolve around TV, I missed a lot of it, but I watched enougj to understand the general plot. Babylon 5 was the one of the first series I purchased as an adult, and periodically rewatch it. Decades later, my family still references Londo and G'kar quite frequently. We even watched DS9 in tandem, but I always liked B5 more.

[@Cmonster-u4i]

This is a great video. Takes me back. Given how comprehensive you were, I was surprised you never mention Legend of the Rangers. I never watched that series and was curious how it fit in to the Babylon 5 story.

[@sdfried4877]

Legend of the Rangers was a pilot about a crew of Rangers assigned to a cursed and apparently haunted vessel on which all hands had died on its previous mission. They encounter an alien race referred to as “The Hand” by another alien who was conspiring with them. He claims they are stronger than the Shadows but it is more likely they are another opportunistic race trying to fill the power void. The crew is a mix of human and Minbari, and most of the acting was solid enough. The effects were inferior to Babylon 5, unfortunately, and the budget was similarly burdensome on the production. It had potential but the execution was poor and it seems that any Babylon 5 after 1997 just couldn’t quite get it right. It featured the last appearance of G’Kar, who wasn’t originally in the script, but Andreas Katsulas just happened meet JMS at a restaurant, heard about the show and said, “Am I in it?”

[@feldela]

Being a HUGE fan of B5 from the start, this video is excellent. Thank you for doing this! My hope is that exposure to this series from contemporary sci-fi fans will generate a new following for this groundbreaking and important series. There are so many points for me to bring up on why this series is one of the greatest sci-fi dramas ever to be produced. I won't go there, though...this video does a GREAT job of doing that. This is an easy addition to one of my KZbin folders.

[@chrisdufresne9359]

In summary, yes. It's so good that it held up all these years irregardless of the early CGI being used. The flaws in the show are the result of paving a new path for science fiction as a whole television show wise.

[@keffey99]

First time viewer. The bit about technobabble score a like from me. LOL

[@mikealexander1935]

My wife and I watched DS9 and B5 in real time and noted that DS9 was clearly following the path B5 had forged--and loved it. For some reason B5 never was in syndication, though we've seen DS9 many times after it original airing. We don't watch streaming services since their are many and each seem to have only one show we would be interested in.

[@scottmalchow3428]

Few TV shows or films are worth the price. The 2nd time, much less the 1st! I have dvd's of all 5 seasons of Babylon 5, plus the movies. Now I want the 1978 "Battlestar Galactica". & DS9.

[@rmsgrey]

As part of the deal that funded Season 5, TNT locked down the rights for Babylon 5 - so when they decided to burn down Crusade and salt the earth, they also buried B5 - showing it in order to meet their contractual obligations, but at random late-night/early-morning hours - until their contract ran out.

[@viva2archive]

5:38 Minor correction: B5 was originally released in Dolby Surround, which is something like an analog 4.1 mix encoded in two regular stereo channels. The upmix to real 5.1 discrete audio channels was done for the DVD release.

[@Will_GM_for_Food]

Another notable mention is Blake's 7, which introduced an overarching plot and enduring conflicts. Not to mention the fantastic rivalry between Blake and Avon, which was unparalleled until Londo and G'Kar crossed verbal swords in B5.

[@brucepulver8358]

And a changing opening titles, 👍

[@Kartissa]

I think my favourite verbal exchange in B5 is actually between 2 of Londo's wives: Daggair: "Timov. Timov. Why do you keep drawing me into these little verbal fencing matches." Timov: "Because I don't have a real sword handy."

[@khankrum1]

Oh come on! Blakes 7 was very amateurish!

[@eddytamayo3200]

B5 is a terrific show - I watch it every few years. It's just that good!!

[@lauraqueenf6786]

In my eyes best Sci - fi ever made. I cried throughout The final episode's..

[@allisonrich5061]

Your technobabble segment had me in stitches ... seriously, though, well done. B5 is my favorite sci-fi show and one of my favorite shows.

[@MINIMOTOMADNESS]

i emailed the production company every week for years for them to be released on dvd,b 5 rocked,loved it so much i named my daughter delenn

[@sid2112]

Nice! Great name.

[@nigelft]

@@sid2112 Indeed it is, especially now ...

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Ironically, Deep Space Nine got inspired by this show and it is by far the finest Star Trek has ever been. Character development, cultural clashes, intrigue, politics, a war like few the setting ever seen.

[@OG21020]

B5 is #1 in my list, despite Star Trek TOS and spin-off series (and ended with Enterprise) which I watched since the 70s and the Expanse.

[@WheezyLex]

What a well-thought-out and great synopsis. I never watched the show, but I am going to now! You earned a subscriber today.

[@daveroche6522]

"Is it still worth watching?" BEST! Series! Ever! I really enjoy rewatching the boxset over 18-24 months - get something new from it every time. Can never thank JMS enough. LEGEND (in Valens Name)....

[@partygnome]

He missed my favorite example of technobabble: "People assume time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff." ~ Doctor Who

[@zombiewarking]

Opera has been around for hundreds of years and it won't be going away because nothing can capture the essence of a live performance.

[@HappyBear376]

Just a fantastic show. Wonderful writing, great acting and superb sfx.

[@wun1gee]

I don't consider any of the show "dated" because half the charm of the show is looking at it through the lens of the time it was made, not through a modern lens and judging it by modern standards. That's how you end up with really bad takes and even worse reboots.

[@mattcarper9853]

Can we all agree the Omega-Class Destroyer is beautiful?

[@highbornjase2412]

I had to chuckle to myself who’s better Kirk or Picard I knew he was going to say sisko and I fully agree.

[@neolives]

Season3 intro really hits. Babylon 5 is my favorite science fiction series, closely followed by TNG. Is unfortunate that we don’t have science fiction series like this anymore.

[@MoA-Reload...]

Brilliant presentation. I loved B5 and I'll go back every few years or so and watch it again. B5 imo is the sort of show that should be required viewing for the writers of certain modern sci-fi shows to pick up some lessons in how to tell a compelling story, have your characters earn our respect and tackle serious topics without coming across as preaching and forcing it. Only little thing I disagree with has nothing really to do with B5. 25:31 your caption read "I wished they implemented Roddenbery's "no crew in-fighting" rule given how much they argued on-screen" in reference to The Expanse. It makes sense applied to Star Trek as Roddenberry's vision was not only an optimistic how things could be if we wise the hell up but also a Starfleet crew. While not military, they're about as close as it gets with a formal chain of command and a crew that swore an oath of service. The Crew of the Canterbury and those that survive to crew the Rocinante aren't military or Starfleet. Their civilian shipping. Having worked a number of years on pax ferries I know that it is generally far less formal, there can be and are arguments and disagreements between crew all the way up to the bridge and I actually appreciated they DIDN'T make it a nice clean "He Captain, He Number one, She Engineer" right out of the gate because it made the detail of when things did hit the fan they all got their crap together, worked the problem and came through it so much better. The character of Holden as Captain of the Roci and the respect he had from that crew was well earned at the end of the day and I actually appreciate the contrast from bunch of crew mates with no oath, uniform or formal rank to keep them in line to a real family with mutual respect and loyalty for each other by the end of the show.

[@MetaStatistical]

In the book, Holden and the rest of the crew had been on the Cant for several years at that point, though. They may have been civilians, but they already had a rapport with each other, and most respected Holden's leadership. They were already a family, made smaller by tragedy. This was a change they made to the show, and it didn't add anything except the wrong kind of conflict. The external conflicts were far more interesting, IMO.

[@davidc.2878]

Abso-fracking-lutely!! I recently started rewatching it because there was nothing new I wanted to see. I thought I’d end up giving up after an episode or two. I rewatched the entire series and appreciated it even more than in the 90s. Great writing and some novel special effects-some of which hold up very well.