Babylon 5 - My favorite scenes - Number three

[@GreenGestalt]

"If I revealed myself, everyone would recognize me." loved it how Kosch was seen as being deliberately cryptic but he was telling the absolute truth all the time.

[@ragzzytv]

true. the other time he says to sheridan. If I help you now, I won't be able to be help you when you reach Zha'hadum. We all thought he is just saying some "God works in mysterious ways" bullshit but Kosh was just saying that they will kill him, if he help them. it was such a sad foreshadowing.

[@charlescrowell6893]

Interesting. Everyone that looked at Kosh saw him in the image of their deity. They all believed in a higher power. Except Lando.

[@kevlonk]

"And what did you see, Ambassador Molari?" (Short silence) "Nothing. I saw nothing."

[@blastermasterguy]

Yup, a portent to what was to come for Molari.

[@RetroRobotRadio]

I would say that this is an indication that was Centauri never had their genetics tampered with by the Vorlon.

[@jonathanhancock9300]

@@RetroRobotRadio Or possibly that they had been tampered with by The Shadows.

[@dlxmarks]

@@jonathanhancock9300 Except that there are Centauri telepaths which indicates Vorlon modification and not something the Shadows would leave intact.

[@Zooftastic]

I love how everyone looks up at Kosh ascending and speaks the name of their deities, whilst Londo just looks up with a bemused "huh?" expression lol.

[@KellyJeanetteSwift]

Glad to meet someone who loves B5 as much as I do. Babylon 5 to me is the best scifi series ever.

[@PackerBronco]

When Kosh looks in the mirror, he sees Ivanova.

[@DennisConnor-mw9dy]

Niceness

[@chachieb]

I remember getting shivers in the back of my neck when Londo said he didn't see anything, later on in the episode

[@blueeyedcowboy17]

yeah, I think in one of the commentaries on the DVDs, he explains that the reason Londo doesn't see anything is because of your second theory :) Very very good. Yeah, his involvement with The Shadows is the reason that he doesn't See.

[@blueeyedcowboy17]

ahh...good question. Can't help you there, but in a commentary, JMS said that Garibaldi would have seen himself if he saw Kosh :)

[@dennismckown4951]

Kosh's people look like the beings in the movie, the Abyss, except for their facial features.

[@TheBriarWolf]

“Why does that glowing thing have my face?!?” - Londo 😂

[@dirdib69]

Londo wasn't ready to believe in a higher power, until he heard the Pak'ma'ra singing.

[@sroberts8560]

This scene should give you a warm feeling inside. Unless you're dead on the inside to which I see 1 person is.

[@efraim3364]

1 Centauri assassin disliked this video

[@philb9015]

Extremely profound scene. Such is the immense power of a Vorlon, it can hide its true appearance to make itself look like a divine being from the religion of whomever looks at it. Very creepy that Londo saw nothing. Is it because the whole of the Centauri people are deprived? Or is it because Londo has been completely corrupted by the shadows? Either way, I believe the Vorlons were FAR more powerful and advanced than was led to believe.

[@maxisaev568]

I find it more creepy that channel's author answered your question twelve years prior to being asked

[@unformedeight]

Unfortunately, the truth is not as shiny Each race sees them as deitys because they had been on their world, it's how they got their inquisitor known only as "Jack", reason Byron explain distinctly in S5E9 This conditioning never stuck with the Centauri They were an elder race but they were equals with the shadows

[@wjdebbi]

@BlueEyesDudeDragon3 I think Londo wondered why he saw nothing as well! I came to really like Londo. He was so flawed. But he did the right thing in the end didn't he? He saved his people from the Shadows and as a result, the Shadows' followers took over. In all the decisions he made, he ended up making his own prophecy come true. He embraced his end and did the bravest thing to save his people. He grew into a true hero. He turned to his one true friend, G'Kar. Irony for sure.

[@themisspultone]

tbgo I loved the speech practice just before this bit :)

[@Friday9951]

The 'angel' form is from telepathic projection - its why Kosh had to rest afterwards from 'too many people seeing him'. The real squiddy form is real, its why the Vorlon encounter suit has a single eye - and the human encounter suit (end of season 4) looks like a badass human.

[@ragzzytv]

the angel form is not telepathic. he is there and their brain just perceives him like that. For generations, the Vorlons have genetically modified the DNA of each species such that each of their brains sees them as their own Gods.

[@MrFbueller129]

I know there was one race, the Tak'cha, that were established in canon (approved comics) as being allies of the Minbari during the First Shadow War. They were exiled by Valen for attacking races that wished to remain neutral in the war and spent the next thousand years isolated on their homeworld guarding the remains of Babylon 4.

[@ddeiterscrysania]

it is funny you would see it like that because when we watched the episode my husband described it diffrently it just goes to show you everything kosh says is open to enterpertation.

[@arscon]

Now there's a guy who can think on his feet!

[@deanooooooo6496]

Narns and Drazi opening up on Centauri Prime.. now that's a cool scene.

[@Denise7826]

This one is one of my Favs as well...

[@Lutrasaurus]

@Joyfulcheese Londo did not believe in anything. In the last episode ("Sleeping in Light") Vir tells the story of Londo and him hearing the Pak'ma'ra singing. Londo turned to Vir and said 'There are forty-nine gods in our pantheon, Vir; to tell you the truth I never believed in any of them. But if only one of them exists, then God sings with that voice.'

[@Joyfulcheese]

Londo saw nothing because of the influence of the shadows on him, either that or the brilliance of what he saw him piqued some guilt in him and he couldn't admit to what he'd seen knowing the darkrness that was consuming him.

[@deathstrike]

Kosh was probably the only Vorlon who truly believes in the value of humanity. Even as he once "punished" Sheridan for his insolence, it was not out of anger, he was trying to teach him that there is more than the dim solutions humans can come up with. Kosh Naranek really did like humans. He knew instinctively that humans were the key to defeating the dreaded Shadows. And he not only gave his life for that belief, he also saved Sheridan twice. This was the first. I won't spoil where the next time did is.

[@sandal_thong]

Funny how he could jump out without a parachute or whatever with no delay here. But when Kosh told him to "Jump. Jump, now" on Z'ha'dum he delayed, which probably cost him 20 years or more of his life.

[@NorthForkFisherman]

@bonzaibuddaa What do you mean? I saw Ivanova with wings.

[@nightflyer28]

I never quite got how Sheridan realized it was Kosh so quickly, unless he saw him coming out of the encounter suit.

[@Jadguy24]

Kosh and Delenn told him if kosh left his encounter suit everyone would recognize the vorlon as something familiar to them. Meaning everyone sees their version of angels

[@sandal_thong]

Also, we don't know when Kosh put a piece of himself in Sheridan. He was far away from Babylon 5 when his mind was calm enough to hear Kosh. Unfortunately the vision or dream was pretty lame and unhelpful in guidance.

[@seph1r0th400]

You can just see the devestation in his face. Everyone else captured god, or something like that, and he missed it. And as you can see that he's devestated

[@Cassadinegirlaz]

Aw Sheridan, Kosh wubs you.

[@istochnikov45257]

@blueeyedcowboy17 Herself... remember: "Ivanova is god" (from the Babylon 5 Manthra) :P

[@wjdebbi]

Thanks for the info!

[@Krellnus]

@AngelZeroMatt you have obviously forgotten the Bayblon 5 mantra, Ivanova would have seen a reflection of herself because she is God

[@1femalegeek]

I wonder what Kosh sees when he looks at himself

[@pazios2002]

that is interesting. I dont read the comics I am mostly if not entirely a series/movie guy. So that sounds like a very interesting story line. Now would be a great time for a B4 movie because they could incorporate the comic book sources into the movie as they are canon. Now I really want one! LOL

[@Aivottaja]

Wonder what Sheridan's projection of Kosh was. Michael The Archangel?

[@wjdebbi]

You can tell that Kosh is different from the other Vorlons. He actually cares and this is a good example. His so called replacement later would not have bothered. I also wondered why Londo didn't see anything. Perhaps it's because he doesn't believe in a higher power, but that's just a guess, or perhaps it's because he is too wrapped in darkness and his own narcissism. Only Joe would know.

[@sandal_thong]

Probably it was one of the worlds the Vorlons didn't visit in the last 1000 years when they made the transition from a one-world civilization to an empire. Also since they had a pantheon rather than a monotheistic or bitheism/dualism it would have been more difficult or less effective to impersonate one.

[@PassportBrosBusinessClass]

I saw Dos Equis

[@Friday9951]

His dream was fulfilled, but out of love and not hate.

[@JohnZaun]

That sounds so like Garibaldi. :))

[@dkerris]

1) one side 2) the other side, and 3) the middle ground between the two which is trampled upon. WARNING: understanding can lead to difficulty in 'choosing' sides.

[@PostprandialTorpor]

Is this before or after “get off your encounter suites butts” scene

[@ash3starrider]

Before

[@twilightzoneseinfeld]

He saw something, but it was probably the Vorlon's true form.

[@TorontoChannel]

This scene is the most profound moment in B5 for me. I actually had a tear of joy :)

[@Fellow_Traveller1985]

@Fbueller129 Haha! I guess that explains his bewildered look.

[@thecraziestofalldave]

i love love love the fact that kosh is a generic human rather than a whatever you people think the jeesuz looks like

[@roguishpaladin]

Vorlons were always careful to represent themselves as servants of the greater good in the world's religion, not the leader. Note that G'Kar does not see G'Quan, instead seeing G'Lan. This fits into the entire "Who are you?" ethos, where one particular servant was not more important than another except as elevated by the later belief of their followers. We don't know the circumstances of a Moses or Jesus on Earth, but we do know that they themselves were not Vorlons.

[@Epoxinator]

Kosh is not a generic human, Kosh appears to each person that Kosh allows to see Kosh as that species' version of an "angel." You see Kosh as a human-esque angel because you are human (that's the film maker's conceit.) Londo, involved with the Shadows, can't see (is not allowed to see) anything. At least, that's why I got out of it. But I could be wrong.

[@sandal_thong]

Nah, they chickened out here.

[@pazios2002]

do they ever say who was on the shadows side in the previous war with Babylon 4 and Valen. Was it just the species that remained after the war with Sheridan? Or were there species that ceased to exist after the B4 war?

[@sandal_thong]

Probably. We don't know when the Techno-Mages (wizards) broke with the Shadows, but their race paid the price, though their Order and knowledge survived among aliens (possibly similar to aliens joining the Rangers and surviving if the Minbari died out). There was an episode where some kind of dark warrior returns from hiding and shows up at Babylon 5. They must defeat it or something, because I don't think it went any further. The Centauri knew about the Drakh as a story to frighten children. So they may have been around before or after the B4 war. It's sad that they didn't know what to do after their Masters left the galaxy, so just continued being agents of chaos and creatures of revenge. Lyta was probably right that they couldn't be allowed to study Shadow technology on Z'ha'dum or they would become too powerful. But allies of the Shadows don't seem to go too far in exchange for their service.

[@subbtopp]

isnt that the angel from barberella

[@CMOT101]

@blueeyedcowboy17 That makes a lot of sense to me.... Interesting, cos I often wondered why if he saw Kosh as an angel, why did he not see angelic feather wings As for Garbaldi.... At one point it would have been a bottle of alcohol

[@mattwho81]

Kosh appears as all gods because the Vorlons have manipulated younger races to percieve them that way. Londo doesn't because the Shadows have influenced him. But Sheridan see right through the illusion and recognises Kosh... Maybe he already has a portion of Kosh in his mind?

[@sandal_thong]

Possibly. Depends on whether this episode follows the one where he's captured and gets a dream-vision from the Kosh inside him.

[@willywilmouth]

Une scène fantastique, tout y est, "l'Ange" que chaque race reconnaît (sauf Londo) et Sheridan sauvé par Kosh! Merci... Cdt

[@Vistico93]

@cukierss : The Centauris have telepaths so the Vorlons have been to Centauri Prime.

[@borya1978]

@1femalegeek that comment made me laugh

[@pazios2002]

Actually to a different item. I wonder who the Minbari allies were. I mean the Vorlons and Shadows didnt get involved (that is how it was how I understood it) So by my thinking that would leave the Minbari all alone, which most likely was not the case. I wish they would make a new B4 movie to answer these questions. Centering around the races not necessarily Valen, who we already know about.

[@sandal_thong]

No, that would be depressing like a prequel to _The Dark Crystal_ knowing that all those beings would be exterminated until just two Gelflings were left (at least two able to go on the adventure).

[@MrFbueller129]

I don't know if the Drakh were a spacefaring species at the time of the First Shadow War. Any races that had sided with the Shadows that didn't go into hiding with them on Z'ha'dum or other remote worlds probably were hunted down and destroyed by the Minbari and their allies.

[@sandal_thong]

They say the wizards (Technomages) were originally Shadow servants, but they broke from them and chose their own path, preserving their order, knowledge and philosophy with aliens when their race was hunted to extinction.

[@supersaiyaman11589]

so the volons never visited the centauri home world is what i get from londoes reaction if so i wonder why they visited the other races but not them.

[@sandal_thong]

Maybe because they had a pantheon, or Vorlons had a premonition that it would go to the Shadows, or that they were a doomed people like the Narn, or they knew what Valen knew as the closed circle (time loop).

[@bonzaibuddaa]

whats going on in the vid??? i saw nothing !!!

[@fffreddie]

Londo is confused. One has to be in a very dark place not to see.

[@nedpike2186]

The Centauri were so old and so cynical as not to admit a Supreme Being in their mythos. Note that everyone who saw Kosh saw he/her/it as their Supreme Being.

[@007TruthSeeker]

Captain Ned Or an evidence that their belief in their Supreme Being was valid, since Kosh was a representative of that Being, not the Being Himself.

[@WNShadow814]

When your touched by the shadows maybe the vorlon manipulation doesn't work so well. We saw when ulkesh got out of his suit what hey really look like. The angel is a telepathic projection

[@bbgun061]

Or maybe the Vorlons had not manipulated the Centauri like they had the other races.

[@Grahf0]

Benjamin Brooks ^^^ This.

[@DoubleAAz]

i feel like i need to trip on acid to see this

[@dkerris]

It begs the question, what does a Vorlon look like when they look like themselves? The sun? The beam of an arc welder? A flashlight blinding you? Or an overweight couch-potato watching sports TV in his underwear?

[@MarijnvdSterre]

Lorien?

[@AtenRa]

Londo says he saw nothing. Was that because Kosh chose not to reveal himself to Londo? Or did Londo lack the conviction to behold Kosh as anything angelic? I never could decide.

[@F40PH-2CAT]

Since we know the Vorlons engineered these lifeforms to perceive them as angels, it's probably a damnation by the Vorlons that the Centauri weren't going to be around much longer.

[@sandal_thong]

Probably Valen/Sinclair told them the Narn and Centauri were caught in a death struggle, so they decided the Centauri weren't worth it. Plus they had a polytheistic religion, so one Vorlon couldn't just step in and resemble one god.

[@blueeyedcowboy17]

.....me again. Okay so - Those who see Kosh see what their interpretation of God is. Sheridan, as you may or may not recall, has a very eclectic view of religion. He "believes in a little bit of everything." Therefore, his interpretation of God is kind of "unfocused" ...like a bunch of views of God thrown together in the same image. For example....in a commentary, JMS said that if Garibaldi saw Kosh...he'd see himself :)

[@rokstaredrink]

Understanding *is* a three edged sword.

[@michaelhviper]

What did Londo see Kosh as?

[@grandkaiser1]

You saw nothing there except the captain because of his involvement with the shadows. His bond to the shadows blocked him from seeing Kosh

[@redplague]

@blueeyedcowboy17 Yeah because Garibaldi is bald as well.

[@sandal_thong]

They really chickened out in this scene. They should have had one of the staff of Babylon 5 enter, look up and exclaim, "Jesus Christ!" Or if not him, then "Great Buddha!" or "Vishnu!"

[@TheNeogotlic]

Вот почему я выбрал аватарку именно эту. Если мне тяжело чего-то именно я ее и применяю.

[@shellnet411]

@blueeyedcowboy17 i love londo he is the most tragic of all. the one woman he loved was killed he loves his pepol and he is realy good he side how when he started at b5 he had choices and no power but in the end he had all the power and no choices and my favorit queote is "I am old and my shoes are to tight it dose not mater i have forgoten how to dance" thair are fue stoies mor tragic than b5 londo lanear and marcus are so sad all love someone so much and can not be with them

[@Stile4aly]

@michaelhviper He saw nothing. He cannot see Kosh as an angel because at this time he is too influenced by the Shadows.

[@voshnarenek8084]

I saw a guy with long hair and a beard.

[@deepdragon2]

Or daffy duck XD

[@2thpic]

Jesus is bald?

[@istochnikov45257]

@istochnikov45257 But... Ivanova is Jew...

[@xadam2dudex]

you know when Sheridan got in that tram those guys were gonna try and kill him it was easy to figure than one out...you would think Sheridan would have a private official car of his own...Gosh has telekinetic powers why did he have to come out of his encounter suit ?