BabyMetal discussion #20: Shanti Shanti Shanti. AJ Hartley with Kaustavi Sakar and Sujata Iyengar.

[@Neuntoeter]

Having a Shakespeare scholar doing an earnest deep-dive into Babymetal songs was something I did not know I needed in my life.

[@Shoe-metal]

Thank you so much for putting that together, and my thanks also to your guests, it was fascinating. 🙂 Shanti Shanti Shanti also happens to be my favorite song off the album. Well, I have a number of favorites, as one does, but no other song gave me the _kind_ of listening pleasure that this song continues to provide me. When I first heard it it was just so exciting that Babymetal (and Su-metal) had taken it on and then come up with what they had.

[@AndrewHartley]

It's one of my favorites off the album. That may not have come across in this video because I didn't want to lead my guests too much, and was keen to ensure they had the space to be candid, if that makes sense. But yes, great song.

[@Varksterable]

@@AndrewHartley Is this kind of no-hype, thought out, planned critique even _allowed_ on KZbin? Be careful, kk? 😉

[@AndrewHartley]

@@Varksterable yeah, I’m taking flak for not just being an enthusiast. Unfortunately, this is how my excitement manifests: in analytical discussion 😬

[@Varksterable]

@@AndrewHartley Meh. The internet is mostly idiot. Just keep doing what you are doing and maybe it'll even out.

[@Shoe-metal]

@@AndrewHartley _this is how my excitement manifests: in analytical discussion_ But also in your big grins when you watch Babymetal perform 😁

[@tiaopiak]

IMO this channel is going to be THE channel of choice for understanding Metal Galaxy album. 😎✌🏼

[@owenbauer4524]

Thank you again for such a well done breakdown. I appreciate you bringing in some voices more able to speak to the cultural aspects of Shanti, so far I have seen mostly positive reactions from people of Indian heritage to it, and it was nice to see some acidemic mids take on it too. I trust team BABYMETAL to do their due diligence with regard to the cultural content they are borrowing from, as it seems they have done with the songs we know more about the production of. Pa Pa Ya has been spoken highly of by F.Hero, he has said in interviews how happy BABYMETAL was to incorporate Thai cultural references into the music, even using traditional Thai instruments into the recording at his request. The inclusion of sabaton's Joakim in the folk metal Oh Majinai seems to point to them being interested in voices from the spaces they are taking influence from. All that said, culture can be a tricky thing to get right, and I appreciate the inclusion of people with a closer tie to the cultures involved, I hope you can continue to include them in similar future videos Yikes, that's a wall of text. In short, thank you. And Shanti kicks ass.

[@rickwagner-]

⚡ 💕 / 🕉 ☮ That was great. Super smart choice bringing in those two to discuss the song. It was pretty cool to have their insights. I'm also glad that the centuries old Buddhist tradition in Japan was mentioned, since so many of the concepts in the song are part of many different cultures. I've seen about a dozen comments on the official video for this song on the BABYMETAL KZbin channel that talk about cultural appropriation. All but one were from people who were complaining that so called "SJWs" would find the song to be inappropriate. Rather than people actually being upset about that. : ) That "liberal woke SJW" is definitely playing the part of the boogeyman in some folks' imagination. Also wanted to mention that F.HERO is the person who provided the English translation for his rap section in 'PA PA YA!!'. So at least that part of the song has a clearly identified author.

[@AndrewHartley]

Yes, I think there are legitimate reasons to be concerned about cultural appropriation but, sometimes with the best of intentions, people who want to be on the right side of the issue sometimes assume what is, effectively a conservative take: assuming that all cross cultural engagement is appropriative. But this is why I wanted to approach the subject carefully and with people who both know more than me about the subject and whose insight I trust. I thought they were very even-handed and positive.

[@rickwagner-]

@@AndrewHartley It's great to listen in on a nuanced conversation about this kind of stuff. Although finding a Thai rapper on your faculty might be a little more difficult. : ) You've probably already got this bookmarked, but if/when you get to 'PA PA YA!!': twitter.com/Fucking_Hero/status/1145354490226155520

[@10Shun]

@@rickwagner- Totally agree. Whenever I hear complaints prefaced with words like "liberal", "SJW" or "woke", I'm inclined to think the following grievance registers as nothing more than a dog whistle. As one of the guests said, there is no such thing as "pure culture". We are all better served by nuanced takes of people who must be from the group whose culture is deemed appropriated.

[@Grington300]

Thanks so much, I really enjoyed that - fascinating as always and I hope you will let you friends know their involvement and contribution is very much appreciated by your viewers as well. One of these days I really need to show Shanti x3 to my Indian sister in law to see what she makes of it too.

[@AndrewHartley]

Go for it!

[@Grington300]

@@AndrewHartley Haha, she is lovely but quite scary sometimes, I'll try to catch her in a good mood.

[@papa_xan]

That 54 minutes went by so quickly. I could have listened to the three of you go on for twice that or more. What a great little discussion about Indian and Japanese cultures, with some Babymetal in there as well. This may be my favorite video of yours, and I really like them all a lot. Shanti x 3 is one of my favorite songs on MG, mainly due to Su's vocals, in that she's doing something different with the timbre of her voice to create that Indian style. I hope in the future she gets to spread her vocal wings a bit more and dip into the other abilities she obviously has.

[@AndrewHartley]

Yes, I actually meant to address that issue and assumed it would come up naturally. It only occurred to me later that my guests don't know what she normally sounds like, so they wouldn't see those high, wavering flutes she uses in this as a song-specific choice. I should have said so but forgot.

[@Varksterable]

Next up: Sue's basso profundo version of Doki Doki Morning...

[@cm724]

Today is my lucky day. First to view, first to like an first to comment. I love Shanti Shanti Shanti. Edit: Now that I have finished watching this video, I have to say those were the fastest 55 minutes ever. Very interesting discussion. Thank you Professor and thank you for the insights your guests have provided. I really liked this format.

[@flugelhornoldman1362]

Great online lecture again & I appreciate it from Japan 有難うございます💛。Although I sometimes had difficulty to understand conversation between 3 lecturers (I need a switch to see English CC), I hope these two ladies do not feel uncomfortable with this song created by Team BABYMETAL. I can imagine how diligently the songwriter, choreographer, Su / Moa, and Kamis tried to understand and study Indian music and dance moves. They took a risk of being called "fake" or "cheap copy" of Indian music. They just wanted to create their own metal music with comfortable Indian flavor paying their due respect to the culture.

[@AndrewHartley]

Yes, I think their response was very positive and thoughtful. This is tricky territory to navigate as a non Indian person, so I really appreciated their insight and support. They were very supportive of what I was doing and of the impulse behind the song.

[@wilsonwong8419]

Andrew-Sensei, you really knocked it out of the park with this video. Normally with your video's I usually will pause it once every 15 minutes or so in an attempt to absorb what was said. I was totally glued to this video and did not want to pause it once! Your guests Dr Sakar and Dr Iyengar were a total BLAST. Please have them on again! Very soon you will have them down the "Babymetal Fox Hole" for which there is no escape.

[@Varksterable]

Once again thank you (and in this case your collaborators) for another excellent, informative discussion. I very much doubt that other reactors could draw on so much intelect to discuss stuff like you do here. I still have no more understanding as to why this song makes me turn the volume up, or feel so much better. Just glad it does.

[@BlackHermit]

Such a fascinating talk! Thank you so much for having and uploading it!

[@michelledelaloye8555]

This was fenomenal, thank you for inviting your guests and having this very interesting talk (it didn't feel like 55 minutes at all!). I learned a lot and it left me thinking many things. Hope you keep doing these analysis, I can't think of any other channel/person doing these approaches to Babymetal. Greetings from Argentina :)

[@grumpus5248]

O! H! That said, I appreciate the inclusion of Indian voices and insight on this song. When I first heard Shanti Shanti Shanti, one thing I went looking for was reaction from Indian reactors.

[@ralfklonowski3740]

Getting external expertise on board was a brilliant idea! And such nice guests, too. The reference to the rebirth cycle by Mrs. Iyengar was a real eye-opener, as this is very Babymetal. We were told at each show of the 2023 tour BEFORE Babymetal Death started that the Fox God chose three newly reborn (!) metal spirits. She was also onto something with the Star Trek reference. Since about 2019, Babymetal could appear in that show wearing their stage outfits and they'd just look cool and authentic. I do think they look more like Romulans than Cardassians, though. But that doesn't matter. So THE ONE is a "constructive semiotic community" in the sense that the reception by the fans is the finishing touch on the making of the song, possibly changing its meaning in the process? Like what happened to Monochrome, which Su thought to be quite lighthearted, but was perceived by the fans as something coming out of a dystopian/nuclear scenario, thus actually impacting the way Babymetal presented it? At least that's the way I understood your lectures on Monochrome. But that happens anyway, doesn't it? Once your song is out in the world, people will read into it what they see fit and things might happen that change that perception. Two prominent examples: When Johnny Cash covered Nine Inch Nail's "Hurt", he not only changed the setting of the song from drug addiction to old age, but prompted the song's author to say "It is not my song anymore, it's his now." (quoted from memory) David Hasselhoff changed the perception of his own song "Looking for freedom" with one performance in Berlin on the night the wall fell. From that moment onwards, the song, originally about a young man's desire to blaze his own path independently from his dominating father, was never the same again.

[@AndrewHartley]

Yes, exactly. I think this happens inevitably, but lots of bands, writers (and fans) are often very rigid and controlling about holding onto what they say is the authentic meaning. What I like about BM is that they are so accepting of and up front about the way songs shift and change their meanings based on audience response, personal backstories, experiences etc. It's a natural part of how songs evolve, but it's rare for bands to embrace that idea so completely.

[@stevechevy3382]

This was cool. I always like to hear whatever thought folks have on things. For me Metal Galaxy album is far more of a hey look at what we learned about the world. Then a let's take this from a culture and use it in an inappropriate way. Babymetal in interviews have said that they have noticed how fans around the world were learning about Japan because of them. So in turn to show their thanks, They did songs with cultural nods to places they have been. I think the reaction from the fans speaks for itself. I've also have noticed how fans have felt how good of job they've done with it too. For this song Moa has said that learning the hand positions was the hardest part of the dance routine. That's it from me. I enjoyed the conversation. And I'm also hoping that a new album is coming soon.

[@MacTaipan]

Very interesting, as usual! Great idea to have the two ladies support you! I love their curiosity and attention to detail, and I'm glad they enjoyed the song.

[@Dennis-DK2]

Thank you so much to Kaustavi Sakar and Sujata Iyengar for taking their time to do this and ofc to you Mr. Hartley for bringing them to us, this was a very very pleasent surprice.

[@10Shun]

Everyone at one point said that the song just makes them feel happy. Yet, there seems to be darkness in the lyrics that the upbeat music conceals. This is trademark Babymetal. Profound lyrical content masked by genuinely kawaii music and dance rendition. I'm really glad the three academics gave Shant, Shanti a thumbs up because it is in my top 3 songs from Metal Galaxy.

[@emb5091]

Yes, I too have started to notice what you said about the lyrics after I started watching videos on the "Babymetal Reactors Resource" channel which has English subtitles. Before, I just focused on how the songs made me feel.

[@10Shun]

@@emb5091 Have you watched Prof. Hartley's analysis of Yava? That really was when it dawned on me how clever and sneaky Babymetal's lyricist(s) and production team is. From what seemingly is a song full of undecipherable gibberish is in fact a shout of irreverent self expression against conventions. And Gimme Chocolate being possibly a chocolate-covered middle finger to the unfair patriarchal traditions of Japan. Babymetal is the gift that keeps on giving.

[@DeePal072]

@@10Shun IMHO I totally agree about YAVA! 100%. When they placed it in the dark side, I was not surprised at all.

[@ENTE-METAL]

Congratulations and thank you for the new format with your wonderful guests, Professor Hartley. You have managed to make your already very informative reactions even more interesting. I hope for more guests in the future. See you 🤘🏼🦊🤘🏼

[@Slytherkins]

Really enjoyed this one. Not that I don't enjoy listening to your lone thoughts, but I liked that this was more of a conversation. Hope to see guests in future. 🤘🦊🤘

[@AndrewHartley]

Glad you enjoyed it! And good to know. Thanks.

[@road-runner]

Amazing. Thank you so much, professor. Thanks to BABYMETAL my interest about other cultures is growing fast. And it's not only about the music. Very interesting discussion, entertaining and intellectually satisfying. Until next time!

[@hedoban_nord]

Oh, wow, a 55 minute analysis video - I'm really looking forward to it since I love Shanti now (after initially hating it).

[@britsune]

Thank you Mr Hartley - I thoroughly enjoyed that. Thanks also to your guests 🙏

[@emb5091]

Thank you Andrew, I really enjoyed this discussion! For quite a while, I've been very very curious about how someone with a more traditional Indian background would react to this song/performance. The only Indian reactions I have seen so far are from young reactors who don't have any or much traditional Indian exposure or upbringing other than watching Bollywood movies/videos. You are doing the Fox God's work!🦊🤘

[@andrjiable]

AJ, thank you sooo much for this! You know, after the first massive outburst, few years ago, of the "reaction-video" fashion (in general, I mean, not yours), I got eventually bored with the omnipresent feel of "and so... what?" about almost 99,9% of social media sharing. Then I gave up watching reactions, until I got the link to your video about one of my absolute favorite BM songs, Tales of the Destinies. At the beginning I was a little bit worried by the lengths, but hey, I was disappointed when it ended, after that too short 30 minutes! Then this one, again about another favorite of mine. Held so professionally, acutely and profoundly. Almost one hour flown away like it was 10 minutes. I enjoyed it really a lot. And I appreciated you mentioning, near the end, the issue of BM style changes throughout the years and albums. I see this as a really important point, even to the extent that could be a reason for the end of the BM project itself. The 10 concerts and all the "narrative" Amuse has built up around them are, to me, still quite frightening, and if I add my personal discomfort with the overall quality of MG, I find myself often fearing the worse. I'd really love you doing a video about this point, of course with any special guest you'd find fit to address the matter. After all, your stance alone screams about how much you love BM, as well as myself and the majority of BM fanbase. Which is really peculiar, considering the really annoying management (Amuse and... yes, Koba as well). At any rate, thank you again and keep up with this great job.

[@k-popplayinklown5473]

I enjoyed that a lot. I appreciate your efforts to make quality content

[@jakemuller8626]

it was said by the girls the fox sign was made by accident because YuiMetal couldn't actually do the horn signs, but they found out they could do the fox shadow figure with their hands and that's how they end up doing the fox sign.

[@grumpus5248]

Source?

[@ClawCarver]

They explained the origin of the fox sign in a Hotwave interview in 2013. Interviewer: I hear its origin was your mistakes, wasn't it? Su-metal: Yes. We were shown the photo to try the sign of the horns. But we didn't understand well. We said, "It looks like a fox" and made different signs. Yuimetal: Our sign has been the fox sign ever since. Su-metal: Seeing our signs, our staff said, "Well, the fox sign is alright." Interviewer: Your staff accepted it, did they? Su-metal: Yes, they did. Yuimetal: From our mistakes... Interviewer: It came out. That's awesome. You can see the whole thing here. It's two minutes and forty seconds into the video. du-metal.blogspot.com/2013/08/talking-on-hotwave-1.html

[@grumpus5248]

@@ClawCarver Thanks!

[@jefffromchicago6321]

Don't blame YUI. In the interview that's linked here it's Moa doing it wrong. YUI and Su are just fine.

[@zerozeroKatuhisa]

Hello from Japan. I appreciate. It was a pleasure for me to see your thoughtful and deep insights. I think Babymetal interprets India from various angles through Japanese Buddhism and Western Orientalism. Thank you very much. put your 🦊 up

[@AndrewHartley]

Yes, I agree. Many thanks for the comment!

[@brandonmagee7262]

I appreciate the thoughts and opinions of all three of you here. Cultural misappropriation is such a touchy subject... and I am certainly glad that your guests did not believe that Babymetal was wrong in what they brought in from an Indian tradition for their performance. One of the unfortunate parts of Babymetal's secrecy is that we don't know the behind the scenes making of the album stuff... including personnel. We have no idea if the Indian instrumentation was recorded live or came from synth samples. If it was recorded live and it was recorded with actual Indian players, I think it would enhance the narrative of one big Metal Galaxy (in a way that the actual credited collaborators already do... with Joakim being from Sweden, Alisa from Canada, F Hero from Thailand, Polyphia from the US and Tak from Japan) in ways that the song can't do on its own. Of course, we do know that Koba gave F Hero a lot of control over his part of Pa Pa Ya, so we do know that the Thai instrumentation on that track is with traditional Thai instruments and players. Looking forward to the next video (whether it is Babymetal/Atarashii Gakko/etc.) And, I imagine Oh Majinai is up next in the Babymetal cycle...

[@rakjr6]

Very interesting discussion. Though I never thought I'd ever hear the word "semiotics" used in a sentence about Babymetal.

[@christinakrischi4796]

Thank you professor and your nice guests for this take on Shanti Shanti Shan. It's such a fun song to listen to (and to watch) but it's also great to know that there's some hint of darkness in the lyrics. By the way, I don't think of Band Maid as "kawaii metal" since they're not a metal band. But their costumes have some sort of kawaii look of course. :-)

[@AndrewHartley]

Yeah, I misspoke on Band Maid (who I don't know much about). Thanks!

[@ph1785]

I think Su Metal , is very professional Singer , she not afraid to try new songs from different cultures , I would like to see Babymetal at half time show at NFL super bowl , singing Shine .

[@ktcworks]

This was so fun to watch!

[@chrisharris1522]

Really great video and a big thank you to your two guests, I could listen to them for hours. To me this song was always stylistic Bollywood rather than Indian traditional culture, I feel it is just a way to acknowledge their Indian fans in the same way you would greet a Japanese person you attempt a Japanese greeting and maybe a little bow knowing you will butcher it, but it is the intent of showing respect that counts rather than the execution if that makes sense.

[@tonygriffin_]

What a superb discussion. Subscribed (now I have to go back and watch all your Babymetal videos, which sounds a good way to spend some time). PS At 19:38, you have text on screen which states "Su is 24 (Born Dec 1997)". That sentence will become true only on 20th Dec 2021. 🤣🦊🤘 30:42 - I was at the Cardiff gig in Feb 2020 and it was great being in a small venue of 2000 standing and being so close to them. BMC was the one that took the roof off! 🦊

[@Disrawen]

Hello!! Excellent videos as always, I like the analyzes you make of the songs! I would really appreciate if you can enable subtitles as English is not my native language! See you 🤘🦊🤘 !!

[@steffenjachnow8176]

Sadly, I hadn't the opportunity to watch this video any earlier. I just want to say I found this highly enjoyable!

[@riomochaccino2108]

WOW, I'm very pleasantly surprised to see some academic discussion about this song from people who are an actual part of the culture the song borrows from. Whether or not it could be considered cultural appropriation has been a question of mine since I first heard it but have been unable to find any sort of discussion about it online. I very much appreciate the effort that was made to put this video together and the willingness of these brilliant women to help educate the public. (Also, my family lives in Charlotte and I live near Raleigh atm. Cool to see some people from my hometown!)

[@AndrewHartley]

Thanks! Glad to hear you found it interesting. Appreciate the comment.

[@autohmae]

This was great ! And insightful. And I'm glad it got their approval at least. That's a very good sign. :-) She might have been to an Iron Maiden concert but Babymetal has officially never met them, they are the biggest they've never met. They were going to perform last year :-( Their excitement to do so is clear, from 2016: intervieweer: So you have toured and met a million cool people over the last few years: Lady Gaga, Metallica… who do you really want to meet next? [Girls, together] Iron Maiden! intervieweer: I just saw them. Babymetal: Where? intervieweer: Madison Square Garden. [Girls, together]: AHHHHHHHHHH! [They lose their shit.] Oh no, we missed them! intervieweer: They're on tour for a long time, you might catch them somewhere else! Babymetal: Yeah, they're going to Japan so maybe they'll see them in Japan.

[@AndrewHartley]

Yeah, I was going to talk about their meeting Metallica and Judas Priest but couldn't think of a Maiden connection. Thanks!

[@autohmae]

@@AndrewHartley Maybe one of the closest they've been to Iron Maiden was actually at Sonisphere 2014. Babymetal opened the stage at 12:00 or so and Iron Maiden closed the stage that evening. Babymetal didn't have a show the next day (the day after was The Forum) but my guess is they didn't stick around that long.

[@TankSenior]

That was so great and interesting! Very thankful that these wonderful ladies agreed to join the analysis and share their knowledge and expertise with us.

[@turbozed]

"Their outfits are kinda Cardassian" - Hilarious and now I can't unsee it

[@glenkelley6799]

As opposed to kardashian

[@lencooke944]

Thankyou AJ for another intelligent and respectful analysis of a Babymetal song. Your guests were engaging and gave understanding to Indian culture that I otherwise would never have gained. Andrew, your reactions are very much appreciated by Babymetal fans like me who tire very quickly of air guitar playing reactors who insist that they're "your boy, Mashface (or the like)" and fill 9 minutes of song broken by "I've got chills/goosebumps ... oooohh, they're so cute ... I wasn't expecting that ...). Anyway, sorry for the rant, just know that your reactions actually mean something to some people.

[@stefanbranden4898]

Wow!!!! Thanx!!!!!

[@Dead-Eye]

Thanks to all three of you for an interesting vid. Nice to have the input from women of genuine Indian background.

[@AndrewHartley]

Thanks for the comment!

[@daigomasculinidade]

I like how you, Andrew, don't lose the focus of the conversation. I really love your videos.

[@AndrewHartley]

I appreciate that. I was poised to quit…

[@fahmiinugroho]

Thank you so much! For making this breakdown section of shanti shanti shanti!

[@rolandkarlsson7072]

The heart and the skull in the logo is Moa and Yui. They have drawn those pictures and had it on their T-shirts when performing before Babymetal.

[@hi-wind9335]

Wow, this is very interesting attempt!! 🦊🌸

[@Marty-Metal]

excellent content Professor, and your guest were lovely as well.

[@AndrewHartley]

Thank you kindly!

[@safrisaleh412]

If you need detailed information on the video breakdown, Professor Hartley is a great choice. Kitsune Up 🦊🦊🦊🤘🇯🇵🇸🇬

[@kevincooper6797]

Fascinating listening to all of you....I loved the respect the ladies show for our angels. I am not sure if the ladies have seen any other videos by Babymetal. It would be great for the three of you to do a reaction to any song.

[@lennyg47]

Please allow me to express my gratitude to your guests for their participation. Another excellent lecture, and I mean that in the sense that this is fan history in the making. Fans discovering Babymetal years from now will be watching these videos. OK, kaleidoscopes are cool! And if you look closely at the patterns they are made of fragments of images of Su and Moa, which is like even more cool. But, I am curious about the colors, because India is often represented by Bollywood and NatGeo types (etc) with very vibrant colors, but the color scheme of Shanti3 video is practically monochromatic. If I understood correctly your guests did not object to the minimal color scheme. So that means Bollywood and NatGeo have been Photoshoping India. I suppose the films of Satyajit Ray or The Five Obstructions by Jorgen Leth and Lars Von Trier offer an answer. I think it's fair to say that Bollywood to India is what Idols are to Japan. Just as there are good and bad Idols, there are good and bad Bollywood movies. But neither represents classical culture, both are manufactured by entertainment industry as cultural commodities. Your guests seem to agree that Shanti3 is not classically or traditionally Indian, but also it is not a stereotypical or quintessential representation. There is just enough hint of Indian influence, not necessarily to be convincing, but to allow one's imagination to make certain associations, sort of like a kaleidoscope patten may evoke an image that isn't really there. I think Metal Galaxy songs have a kind of suggestive play of musical / cultural hints, nods and winks rather than heavy-handed imitations of other cultures. Anyway, I imagine magpies would love a kaleidoscope. Wow

[@AndrewHartley]

Great observations. Thanks!

[@JL-go3]

Interesting video...as a westerner it seems more of a fun use of Bollywood or popular Indian culture singing and dancing . I wouldn't see this and think Traditional Indian preformance. It does have a connection to popular Indian preformance which is the level of professionalism involved with the singing and dancing .

[@idislikeusernames628]

I'm loving this. Thanks you guys. Give them my love ❤ kitsune up brother

[@AndrewHartley]

Thanks!

[@davidornberg]

The music in Gimme chocolate and Awadama fever is written by a member from the former? punkgroup The Mad Capsule Market.

[@AndrewHartley]

I didn’t know that! Thanks

[@davidornberg]

@@AndrewHartley His name is TAKESHI UEDA Lyrics are other guys. Awadama Fever: babymetal.fandom.com/wiki/Awadama_Fever Gimme chockolate Look at composition: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimme_Chocolate!!

[@synco1732]

I wonder what the analysis for Night Night Burn will look once you reach the song.

[@AndrewHartley]

Good question. I'm open to suggestions.

[@synco1732]

@@AndrewHartley In my opinion, the main focus on the song is the instrumentation mix of Latin/Caribbean with the bits of Flamenco sound to it.

[@AndrewHartley]

@@synco1732 yes, it has a Miami Sound Machine feel to me

[@synco1732]

@@AndrewHartley Same! You can go deeper into Latin music genres that inspired the final product. Can’t wait to see your next video upload!

[@Dennis-DK2]

@@synco1732 its funny how people all over the world agrees it sounds latin but a lot of latin american people think it sounds more spanish, maybe a new panel with a spanish person and a latin american person :D

[@yoshimi6200]

日本語で失礼いたします いつもながら教授の分析を興味深く拝聴いたしました 他国の言語や文化を取り入れることはややもすればその国の方々にとって不愉快な感情を生みかねません BABYMETALの場合、想像ですが振付および歌詞については充分な時間をかけていると思われます　根底にその国の文化に対するrespectが私には感じられます　いわゆるボリウッドミュージックになってはいないと思うのですが…

[@AndrewHartley]

I agree.

[@Winnegan]

On the topic of ambiguity, When Su sings "Want Some Beat" in BxMxC it sounds to my western ears as ambiguous with "Wassabe", Is this ambiguity also heard by native spearkers of Japanese?

[@flugelhornoldman1362]

When I heard BxMxC for the first time before looking at the lyrics, I could not simply understand what Su was singing rather than ambiguity. "Want Some Beat" was pronounced with an acute accent at the end in the song, while "Wasabe （山葵)" has an accent at the first syllable. In addition, there is a difference of pronunciation between two "Wa"s. The spelling is the same but sound is "o" and "a". Of course, it is my own perception.

[@rickwagner-]

​@@flugelhornoldman1362 That's really interesting, and good to know. I had wondered if the songwriter was playing with the similarity in sounds between "want some beat" and "wasabi", but it seems like the way it's pronounced in the song makes that unlikely. Thanks!

[@Winnegan]

@@flugelhornoldman1362 Thank you so much, this clears up a question I have had since I first heard the song.

[@od3910]

Is this an academic deep dive into babymetal music? Amazing!

[@garykeeling2275]

One of the purposes of the Metal Galaxy album was to pay tribute to the various cultures from which the fans who have supported them over the years come. Their are several world music influences, from Indian, to Celtic and Russian (mixed in one song), to Spanish. They tried to be very respectful of those cultures and to give something back to them, so I don't consider any of their songs on this album to be "cultural appropriation." They're trying to offer a gift to those cultures. As for some of the lyrics not making sense, there are several songs of Babymetal where they don't use actual established words, but rather just do a sort of rhythmic singing where their voices become sort of an instrument, but the actual "words" don't have any meaning, they're just meant to add to the sound and rhythm. The "Ali Ali Ali" and "rairairairai" parts in this are examples of that. There are elements of that in Gimme Chocolate and Oh! Majinai, as well.

[@AndrewHartley]

Yes, I knew that about the stated purpose of the album, though intent doesn't get you off charges of appropriation of itself (in the same way that you don't get away with telling offensive jokes by saying you didn't intend to offend: these things are measured by their effects on others). That said, I agree that the song isn't appropriative for all the reasons we discuss, though I think each one has to be taken on a case by case basis. I agree that some of the words here may just be sound though others have speculated about proximal words in either Japanese or Hindi, so I'm not sure.

[@DeePal072]

I don't think they'll let them play for Tokyo 2020, I mean, Arkadia could easily be classified as doping.... 😅 Great content, thanks so much 😊👍🏻 🤘🦊⚡

[@AndrewHartley]

Ha! Indeed :)

[@shawnmccafferty7010]

Awesome as always, Professor Hartley. Suggestion for Discussion #21..."Kagerou". From my perspective, it's one of the very first Babymetal songs where the choregography could almost be categorized as suggestive, or sensual (particularly from Moa & the other stand in for Yui. Riho or Momoko?). Su's vocals have a slightly different quality too. Does any of that match up at all with the larger meaning behind "Kagerou"?

[@AndrewHartley]

I've a few other songs to do first, but I'll get to Kagerou. Thanks!

[@Kemrer]

Thank you

[@AndrewHartley]

You're welcome

[@jefffromchicago6321]

I found it interesting when your guests brought up yoga. I remember a radio interview with Koba. He told a funny story that happened to him in a yoga studio in NYC. Babymetal had a Indian group opening for them in the US in 98. I think Koba admires India. About the SyFy. Babymetal used to scroll words on the screen like the intro in Star Wars. I've always wondered if Koba is a fan or if he's reappropriating back to Japan as Star Wars was inspired by Akira Kurosawa's-The Hidden Fortress. Probably both.

[@AndrewHartley]

Yes, I think the samurai/scifi ethos are intertwined in modern culture. Star Wars is full of vaguely Japanese aesthetics. I didn't know about the Indian band touring with BM. That's very interesting. I wish they were a bit more transparent about this stuff, though I understand that they want to rely on the mystery of the product in its final form and not spend so much time on how the sausage is made. Still...

[@jefffromchicago6321]

@@AndrewHartley Good PR to keep fans debating. Keeps interest high and BM relevant. I like the fact that it gives fans the opportunity to create their own lore and believe what makes them happy. For instance- Yui is still in Babymetal. She can't leave as she has been chosen by the Fox God. This brings me comfort. Might not be the best example since Yui and Koba disagree but you get my drift.

[@BlackArr0w]

So, are you starting a new series of videos? "AJ Hartley introduces Kaustavi Sakar and Sujata Iyengar to Babymetal songs"

[@AndrewHartley]

That would be great! :)

[@kaylametal]

i believe the parts in the chorus where su-metal does the south asian trill, she says "yuuri mae naeguri" and not "hyuuri". also the same part in the bridge, i think she says "yuurira maenari".

[@AndrewHartley]

Quite possibly. Though I'm not sure what that would mean in context. Sujata had some speculative readings of some of the 'sound words' in he song as being close to Hindi terms, but we weren't sure enough to discuss them.

[@BenC460]

I love your videos professor Hartley but Band Maid is absolutely NOT kawaii metal. Band Maid is a very different thing than Babymetal. I love both Band maid and Babymetal but for very different reasons.

[@rickwagner-]

BAND-MAID also have a deliberate "gap" between their visual presentation and their sound (Hard Rock), but you're right, definitely not a Kawaii Metal group.

[@AndrewHartley]

I misspoke. First thing to come to mind in the moment. I think they have an element of the kawaii, but I don't know them that well and will trust your judgment.

[@BlackArr0w]

@@rickwagner- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kawaii_metal_musical_groups Wikipedia actually lists Band-Maid as Kawaii metal! But I would disagree :D

[@BlackArr0w]

@@AndrewHartley From what I know, the only Kawaii Metal band that had some kind of success is "LadyBaby".

[@AndrewHartley]

@@BlackArr0w Yeah, I'm not a fan

[@The0tis]

I need to take a class with Dr. Iyengar. I'm too sedentary to take a class with Dr. Sakar.

[@robertbradshaw8246]

BABYMETAL was part of an education based idol group called Sakura Gakuin. then one or two years later they broke from them and became their own label. But they are still under ownership of Amuse entertainment.

[@AndrewHartley]

Yep :)

[@minamihideki7123]

今回は日本語で書かせ下さい。頑張って聴きましたが、内容を充分に理解できたか自信がありません。英語字幕を付けて頂けるとうれしいです。 ゲストのお二人が総じて、この曲を気に入られたのではないかと思うので、私は嬉しいです。ただ、27分32秒のところでミス スジャータ先生は、「アリ、アリ、アリ」のパートの振付が嫌いであると仰っているのでしょうか？確かにこの部分だけは、私も少しコミカルな印象を受けます。他の日本人がここで指摘しているように、私達が他国の文化を取り入れようとする場合は、たとえ深く理解することができなくても、敬意を持つことが最も大切だと思います。しかしこの曲については、モアはあるインタビューで、指先まで意識して踊ったと答えています。またスーも珍しく、一部でビブラートを用いて歌唱していると思います。ほんの一部に気付き、また知ったつもりになっただけですが、この曲を作り上げるために、チームベビーメタルは相当な試行錯誤を繰り返したのではないかと想像させます。 昔から世界中の著名なミュージシャンが、インド音楽に興味を持っているのではないでしょうか？このことについては、やはりビートルズのジョージハリスンが有名ですよね？私はインド音楽に詳しくありませんが、シタールやタブラの音は好きです。電子タブラというのがあって、タブラのリズムパターンを延々と聴き続けることができます。kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKO0mmmvf9tmjq8 またU-zhaanという名前の若手日本人タブラ奏者が、かなりクールです。 ハートリー先生の、良いコンテンツをお創りになさろうとするお姿を尊敬いたします。また楽しませてください。日本から感謝申し上げます。ありがとうございました。

[@AndrewHartley]

She said she disliked the part of the choreography where they appeared to line up to show the multi-armed goddess pose, but she clarified that she didn't have a problem with the choreography itself, but that similar gestures have been used by other performers in mockery of Indian culture. She was not saying she thought BabyMetal were doing this. Hope that clarifies the point. I'll try to get the subtitles working.

[@minamihideki7123]

@@AndrewHartley Thank you so much for adding English subtitles. I will watch it again for sure.

[@AndrewHartley]

@@minamihideki7123 These are the automated titles, but hopefully they are accurate enough to give you a better sense of what we're saying :)

[@tonypate9174]

This isn't Fly Fishing ....."any luck dad ?"

[@keithsowerby8179]

Strangely, immediately after watching your discussion on Shanti Shanti, whereyou touched on cultural appropriation, I chanced upon Sakura's short commentary upon the deeply offensive MV "Namastase!! CURRY POLICE" by the Japanese band Candy Foxx, which brings cultural appropriation to a completely new level. I won't provide a link to the MV 9it is easy enough to find on KZbin), but Sakura's thoughtful video is here kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIbOZXxqo96qo5Y

[@jakemuller8626]

i "hartley" see this man doing dogeza hedoban to our queen and princess :V

[@daveperkins2927]

Anybody get the sense, rather ironically, that the lady at the bottom of the screen has a little unfounded prejudice against metal generally? Very interesting conversation between the three.

[@jakemuller8626]

the only "indi" film i like is "Slumdog Millonaire", that's a real good movie about true indian life. yeah i now was not made by an indian production, but you get the picture.

[@yuvaanshrestha647]

Its "hindi" not indi

[@glenkelley6799]

Admit it, your real purpose was to convert two more Babymetal fans.

[@rolandkarlsson7072]

Interesting analysis. You have to understand that Babymetal is mostly about fun. They have some few songs that has a meaning. Like "Road to resistance" and "Megitsune". But it is mostly fun. Even the "Babymetal Death" performance is for fun, even if there is a crucifiction there. It is probably not meaningful to make deeper analysis than that :)

[@AndrewHartley]

Who said fun wasn't worthy of analysis or that things which are light and playful don't have meaning?

[@rolandkarlsson7072]

@@AndrewHartley - of course they have meaning. But my point was only that you need to take into account the context for Babymetal and its crew. They probably do not understand the Indian specific implications. They do everything from their perspective. I generally think you all did a nice job understanding that. So, I am not complaining. And you are a Babymetal fan, so I think you might have as much knowledge as me in that regard. There were some few times where I thought you tried to put too much into it. Many Babymetal songs has a meaning. * 4 no uta: A play with 4 and death. In Mandarin 4 and death is pronounced the same and therefore Chinese (and Japanese to a lesser extent) do not like 4. They like 8 and 9 that both are positive. Thats why you see such strange phone numbers in China. Long numbers full of 8 and 9 and no 4. The story goes that Moa and Yui pestered the crew with this rather annoying song and finally someone decided that this annoying song should be performed live. * Death: it is just a presentation and the talk about Su becoming a goddess is just for fun. * Gimme chocolate: the dangers with being too fond of chocolate * GJ: it is nod to their parents that have done a good job raising them. (Sometimes, it is another text.) * Headbanger: becoming a heavy metal girl. * Ijme, fame, zettai: anti bullying * Megitsune: female empowerment * Onedari Daisakusen: small girls charming their fathers to get money and stuff * Pa pa ya: making fruit sallad * Road to resistance: yet another anti bullying song * Sis anger: not sure, but I think they hate the audience. Or maybe just those that are not nice. * The one: its about the fans and that they are one with Babymetal * Yava: not sure, but it is about Su being confused that it is different. It is one of my favorites. One day I shall try to understand the text fully. Apart from that, most songs are playing with words, Japanese and English. And I think Yava might be one of the more complicated there. I once saw a series of KZbin videos by a Japanese older gentleman that explained Babymetal texts. He had lots to say of double meanings and being clever with words. It would be fun to find that series again.

[@AndrewHartley]

@@rolandkarlsson7072 Yes, that was Duane-Metal, now retired, alas. I don't disagree with your assessment, but to me the function of art is generative: it's meanings aren't limited to a single reading or the intention of the creator. They are designed to produce new ideas and impressions, so that the song (in this case) stays fresh, making new thoughts each time you come back to it. I think this is especially true of BM whose meanings are open ended and the audience is asked to complete them for themselves. Your mileage may, of course, vary.

[@rolandkarlsson7072]

@@AndrewHartley - Thanks - yes, you are right - it was Duane-metal. Searching for him I found his channel: www.youtube.com/@DuaneMetal. Howe nice, I shall look at som of his videos again. Finding meanings in art is complicated. There are several kinds of meanings. * The obvious meaning - what the song is about. Like presenting themselves in BM Death! * Another sub-meaning, like Su becoming a metal goddess in BM Death! * Diverse conscious small things added. Like the play with the Japanese word Desu and the English word Death in BM Death! * Diverse sub conscious things, things added that the performer or writer is not aware of himself. * Diverse things that are context dependent. Obvious when analyzing old stuff or stuff from other cultures. * Meanings that only the analyzer understands or maybe is only possible to understand with some kind of theoretical framework. The three last ones are difficult. And often the reason why I am skeptical to some analyses. It is easy to project yourself or your own culture or beliefs on something where the maker of the piece of art totally and genuinely has no idea what you are talking about. I reacted a bit to one of the ladies not liking the multi arm part of the dance, even took some offence. It did not lead to anything when you, rightly, decided that no offence was meant. Which was nice. But, that it is even possible that Babymetal would mean any offence is quite strange to me.

[@AndrewHartley]

@@rolandkarlsson7072 Yes, it's tricky. But the issue is not whether offense was intended. It's whether it was caused anyway, particularly in areas where people might perceive cultural appropriation, because--again--meaning and consequence is finally about reception not creative intent. I deliberately raised this issue in this video (and invited these particular guests) because I knew this issue had been raised in the BM community and people were unsure how to process it. I felt confident that people who understand Indian culture and the complex intellectual issues around appropriation would be able to speak to it and clear the air. As you say, it's tricky, but I thought it worth addressing.

[@goatqi]

Cultural appropriation vs cultural appreciation.

[@amartins8213]

It's not that i didn't liked the arguments of your guests but the dance is clearly bolyhood. I believe that the video has not helped to understand the various movements. There is a video by an Indian choreographer who refers to "cultural appreciation" for what the girls did in this song. Even so, the conversation served to clarify other aspects. Thanks for the video

[@砂漠谷礼馬]

教授、もしかしたらご覧になられたかもしれませんが、ダンサーで振付師の方のリアクションをここに置いておきますね。 kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXusinyagb1jiKMsi=ktEcIf7KrBx0WCiO

[@AndrewHartley]

Thanks! Hadn't seen that.