Back To Bethel EPISODE 1: Applying To BSSM

Ever wondered what it would be like to apply to the Bethel School of Super Natural Ministry? Wonder no more. We are breaking down the process, the theological bricks that are laid, and what it took to get in.
Link to our latest homestead video
• Sausage & Theology
Contact me below if you, or someone you know, is going to or coming out of BSSM
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[@tesaphillips8605]

Me and my family watched your interview with the messed up church. We can relate deeply. Almost a year ago we left a NAR charismatic cult. We are all at times slapped with severe ptsd. And deep mourning over how we mistreated Gods Word and Him. It’s hard to find the words. It caused me to dig into church history and Pentecostal history. I just want to learn all I can and warn all who would listen. Gods Word reformed our family. We are resting in His Sovereignty now. We will be watching and sharing your videos. Keep sounding the alarm brother.

[@faith_reframed]

Wow what an honor! Thank you so much for watching

[@bobbydeason6581]

My wife and I have a very similar testimony. It was the Word of God and a revelation of the cross that saved us out of our mess. I totally understand the PTSD. Choosing to rest in God’s goodness and His purity. All the best in Christ!

[@lilpoohbear653]

God bless you and your family...glad you got out!!!

[@surikat-q9i]

Find a confessional lutheran church in your area.

[@jody2873]

This is wonderful to read Tesa! ..."for he is able to keep that to which I have committed to him against that day". Christ the Great High Priest had prayed for you from the beginning of... He will not lose one

[@jenni8759]

Thank you for this! I lost my entire group of friends in my early 20s to Bethel. Some of them moved there from our home in Indiana, others just engulfed themselves in Heaven Invades Earth and then Culture of Honor. I was deceived for years by their visits to our church and then the HUGE change in my own church. 5 years ago we left our Bethel influenced church and sought to find a Biblical based church. My journey to reading and knowing the Bible on my own has taught me so much and even though it's been years I still feel like I'm detoxing from the insanity of Bethel.

[@faith_reframed]

So sorry to hear that but so grateful for where you are.thanks for sharing!

[@markmoore8399]

Hence the nickname for you being "Context Girl"!!

[@ivanluther3823]

What do you mean you "lost" a group of friends? Did they go to the world and start sinning or did they start seeking the Lord in a more dynamic way? How can you say you lost them if they are going to church where they believe the Bible and act like it.

[@ivanluther3823]

I'm saying this out of love and a desire for you not to feel that you lost your friends to bethel like bethel is some evil thing. It is a church passionately devoted to Jesus Christ our Lord.

[@ivanluther3823]

I'm saying this out of love and a desire for you not to feel that you lost your friends to bethel like bethel is some evil thing. It is a church passionately devoted to Jesus Christ our Lord.

[@STAIND12300]

Hey brother, I appreciate you being bold enough to post content like this. There is such a stigma against those who stand for truth and your honesty is a breath of fresh air. God's blessings to you and your family❤️

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you!

[@facepalmingreformer8723]

Thank you for this Jesse! The Lord saved my wife and kids and me out of a word of faith church over three years ago. I was a worship leader there and we full on embraced Bethel music. So glad and grateful to be out now brother. After serving 16 years there in youth ministry and worship leading….much repentance and much grace. The Lord has been so gracious to us. God bless you brother, keep up the good fight!

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you so much! Praise God

[@ivanluther3823]

Did that word of faith church believe in the divinity, the death and Resurrection of Jesus? I haven't heard a word of faith church that did not believe in the gospel. So how can you be "saved" from a bible-believing, gospel-believing church?

[@christinemosley1475]

@@ivanluther3823do you have a problem with people getting out of NAR churches and going to a biblically sound church? From your comments it seems you do.

[@ivanluther3823]

@@christinemosley1475 Sister I just have a problem with slander and a spirit of baseless accusation and suspicion in the body of Christ. Reminds me when people called Jesus and Paul all sorts of names, including heretic, false teacher, etc. Blessings.

[@reidweaver]

@@ivanluther3823 the problem with word of faith churches is that the theology is centered on man and not God. It focuses on what power I have (God takes a back seat), how I am worthy of so much (I am worthless, only God is worthy), humility takes a back seat to elitist mentality - I have more spirituality than you do. This does not even to begin to address the doctrine that is so off. Those I have met have a christianity (not Christian walk) that is based on experientialism and not grounded in the Word of God. And when they do use the Word, it is in a way that is not based on the context of what was written; it's contorted to make the Word fit their experiences. Bill Johnson once preached that what you experience in the "spirit" takes precedence over scripture. This is flat out false teaching and an anathema to God. Read your Bible, use a good Concordance and a solid Bible Commentary. God's Word tells us we are to call out false teachers just as you would help someone escape a burning building. We are to help people escape an even worse fire.

[@Obi-Wan81]

Amazing to see your testimony my friend. I went to a NAR church for a long time, and always felt uncomfortable, but couldn't put my finger on it for ages as to why I didn't feel right about being there. Met my wife there, but when she started to get heavily involved in Sozo and the like, she ended up walking away from the marriage. Please keep putting this material out there - it is very much needed for others who are trapped.

[@faith_reframed]

I have a lot to say about sozo. Maybe another day for that one 😊

[@Obi-Wan81]

@@faith_reframed Please do - churches in the UK are just accepting it. I did 10 mins of a Sozo session, and end up walking out in disgust. The 2 people running the session came running out after me, and I told them bluntly to stop putting words in my mouth, and to stop misleading people. They looked at me in stunned silence, and couldn't offer any answer to me challenging them.

[@Juamo-tn8we]

I’m here because I just finished watching Pr. Chris Rosebrough interview you on FFTF. We left “Americhurchianity” about 10 years ago and joined the LCMS. To say I am so grateful to God for opening our eyes sounds trite. I cannot express how thankful I am for God for first opening my youngest son’s and husband’s eyes. I joined the LCMS kind of kicking and screaming mostly because I knew that it would change my friendships. It’s hard to maintain close friends when you no longer see Americhurchianity as God’s best thing ever. Thank you for speaking up- I can’t imagine how disconcerting it was to leave Bethel and try to retool your brain with good solid Biblical theology. I look forward to watching your videos. May God bless and keep you and your family!

[@RobCartwright]

My family and I left a church that was in the process of turning into a NAR church a couple years ago. We thought the way we were treated on the way out by people who we called our closest friends and our church community caused irreparable damage, but God led us through the other side to a wonderful new community. You are not alone in this journey. God bless you, brother.

[@faith_reframed]

So sorry and thank you 🙏🏼

[@jeffurey6399]

Courageous! I broke from Life Center in Harrisburg, Pa. after 20 years of indoctrination. My friends were the head of their school of ministry. Another friend was the sound engineer for Jesus Culture events all over the country and Lou Engle Call gatherings. Bless you!

[@faith_reframed]

No way! We lead worship there with the Helsers during their heartbeat conference. We probably know the same people.

[@pickin-grinnin-homestead]

Definitely want to see more of this so please keep them coming! Your story is needed and compelling. You are a natural speaker and an communicator. Your work is much appreciated!

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you so much ! Too kind 😂

[@pickin-grinnin-homestead]

@@faith_reframed I mean it. You are comfortable in front of the camera, you hold the attention excellently and get us from A to B with clarity. You have a story to tell and now a platform. I pray God uses it immensely to help others.

[@blemishedblots]

Wow. This is awesome. Thank you for sharing! Can’t wait to hear more. And I ❤ Doreen Virtue! Looking forward to that interview. I’ve been saved from many false and dangerous teachings and am learning so much about what Christianity really is and what it looks like. God has been very patient with me! I often wonder what my life would look like if I was presented with the true Gospel in the first place! But, I’m here now and I’m so grateful for His mercy and grace! I’m sure I can answer for many others… YES. This is helpful and we want to hear more. 🙌 Thank you!

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you so much!

[@jeremiahyeo5863]

Incredibly helpful and very informative. Thank you my brother for doing all this. Keep up the great work I’m looking forward to more content on your channel.

[@faith_reframed]

Much appreciated!

[@BenDeRaps1]

Hey brother I have been watching on AGtv on my subscription. I didn't realize that you were on KZbin. But I absolutely love the show and so I came on to like and subscribe.. I am absolutely hooked and I am at episode "though he slay me" Gosh I hope you never stop..... Either that or come up with a new idea afterward LOL you are an absolute delight to listen to and from a theological standpoint, I think we are right there side-by-side... I will be attending Reformation Bible college next year and I also came out of the charismatic movement.... It was such a shock to see the assaults we did against the Holy Spirit at our church 4 days a week

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you so much for this. Back on the grind hope it's a blessing

[@DrTomatoClock]

Thank you for this series of videos! This is really important content

[@faith_reframed]

You're so welcome! 🙏🏼

[@MichelleFoley-pe4rr]

Reminds me of the 'Toronto Blessing ' .It was an experience that people got addicted to.Those same people knew very little of the Word.

[@thomasbaxter7564]

I have a cousin who went to BSSM, so I’d love to hear more of your first-hand knowledge. None of the family can get a straight answer from her or her parents about what happened at the school or what church they currently attend or what their beliefs are. They just tell us we were taught Christianity wrong and are going to hell. My aunt is a “prophetess” and my cousin a “healer.” I’ve been researching the NAR for years, so your experience and journey of how you found your way out would be great to hear!

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you so much. I hope whatever I put out will help :)

[@amandanussbaum8635]

I grew up in a Pentacostal church that was always on the edge of any kind of doctrine. Later on they fully embraced NAR theology and ran in the same prophetic/evangelistic/worship circles as Bethel. My husband and I ended up leading worship for many years and our whole family was entrenched in it. Through reading God’s Word and listening to people like John MacArthur, Voddie Baucham, John Piper, Justin Peters etc, we began to see the blatant false theology, lies, and manipulation we had embraced. Praise the Lord He mercifully saved us out of that about 10 years ago! We basically lost all our friends because of it but the Lord has done such a work in our lives and we are so thankful. We are now in a wonderful, Biblically sound, Reformed church. Interestingly, many that I’ve seen come out of that have either completely walked away or they have embraced a very progressive Christianity and basically Unitarianism. It’s encouraging to see all the comments of people that have come out of it and are serving the Lord. Thanks for doing this series!

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks for sharing!

[@mstar4150]

I lost many friends too when I left my old church. They were starting to go more and more to the NAR side. It took over 2 years to find a biblically sound church (also because of covid). It was a very lonely time. You aren't alone and I pray you are able to heal from the hurt you've experienced.

[@adrianstorm474]

I think throwing the whole continuationist view out the doctrinal window, though a respectable approach, does not have to be the only option. I dabbled in the hyper-charismatic for some years, and I have since moved on. However, I could not go full cessationist because, though it sounds more formal and more grounded, it does not have as strong as sinews with scripture as it may sound. Teachers and channels like Mike Winger, Allen Parr, Melissa Dougherty, and Remnant Radio can really help with finding the sweet spot in continuationism.

[@ladyesther]

Thank you. I can relate to the God speaking to me thing though I never went to Bethel. A lot of Christians I know think this way. I am still in the process of changing how I think. Reading the Bible is the way to hear God speak.

[@AllThingsNew1723]

I agree that we hear God through His written word, but I talk to Him all day…I’m not understanding what is wrong with that…(I’m wanting to learn, I’m not trying to argue…just want to understand what he meant by that)

[@shikopp785]

Yes please keep going !!! I am waiting to see the next episode… thank for doing this ! kudos

[@bradfehr]

Thanks Jesse for sharing the application process. The personal intimate relationship with God portion question stood out to me. Growing up as an Evangelical Mennonite I was never taught this. As a youth my mentor began encouraging me in talking to God and being open to having him speak back. I think this is a difficult subject to handle for many because it is rare for God to speak audibly to someone so how do we discern how he speaks today. For me, I am a big believer he speaks through His Word but also through the counsel of people, dreams, visions, prophecies etc. and the still small voice. So when you talk about a personal 'intimate' relationship with Jesus, for me this doesn't mean he is giving me supernatural or mystical experiences throughout my day to communicate with me. It requires a discipline to be still and quiet myself. Will I hear him clearly all the time? No. Do I always need revelation of me having to do something? No. I am learning intimacy is found in resting at Jesus feet and worshipping him for his truth. Singing praise, meditating on Scripture, and thinking about his love are great ways to do this. Sometimes you receive what is called a 'Rhema' personal word, sometimes not. Going into prayer, there should never be pressure to receive any experience, revelation or rhema. I think this form of prayer helps us establish trust, hope and desire to love God more because we are drawing near to him in the stillness.

[@faith_reframed]

Love it

[@soulsound1to1]

Thank you. Yes, we want to hear your story and all you've experienced and have learned from that. To many of us who have come out of the NAR it's very helpful to hear from someone who was deep in the heart of that movement. Thanks once again! 🏅

[@faith_reframed]

🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼too kind thank you

[@ConstantiaVerted]

Great vid thanks. Going to watch the playlist :)

[@faith_reframed]

Awesome, thank you!

[@kaybrown4010]

My Christian background: Raised Presbyterian. Born-again Baptist (short blip in time), Charismatic for 10 years, LCMS (conservative Lutheran) for 10 years, Orthodox Christian for the last 25 years, until forever. How God speaks to me is a work in progress. How can the finite grasp the Infinite? Reading the Gospels is like touching the hem of Christ’s garment. Living a sacramental life in the Church is priceless. It’s Jesus Christ Himself, giving of Himself in the bread and wine of the Eucharist; in being anointed and blessed with holy oil, with holy water. All creation becomes sanctified through Christ. Every breath becomes an Alleluia. There is so much more to relate, but Orthodoxy is experiential in nature. To say more would be to diminish it. There are no formulae. Edit: Jesse, I’m grateful that you’re doing this. Thank you, thank you. 🙏🏻❤️☦️

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks for sharing this was great !

[@kaybrown4010]

@@faith_reframed May God bless you! ❤️☦️

[@rosalindafortier8184]

Noticing the parallels between Mormonism and charismatic theology was definitely a part of my journey out of the charismatic movement as well

[@faith_reframed]

So crazy isn’t it?

[@blackdog1153]

The Mormons are Satanists [ Dualism involved with ONA ] and worse. Crazy 🤪

[@streamskat]

Interesting. When I was in college I visited a Mormon church quite a few times, and I am now charismatic, have been for most of my life, and I don’t know what similarities there are.

[@ArcticBlits]

@@streamskat Yeah, it feels like a straw man. It would appear that taking one bad church/movement is all that is needed to discount all Charismatic. I might add biblical theology. Cessationism theology is not just unbiblical but antibiblical. I have been studying for awhile now and havent heard a single biblical argument for it.

[@sweetsav11]

I used to be charismatic. I am a cessationist, but I do believe the Holy Spirit speaks to us personally and intimately, not like a confusing general impression, but by reminding us of scripture at the perfect time and guiding us move by move. like Jesus said... "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." John 14:26 One of the biggest examples of this in my life would be when it comes to evangelism, for example, when I first came out of the charismatic movement I remember seeing a girl who looked lonely and sad outside my school and I was reminded suddenly of the verse "A generous person will prosper; whoever refreshes others will be refreshed." Proverbs 11:25 So i decided to compliment her little plushie on her bag because I genuinely thought it was cute, and we started talking after that and later she invited me to her birthday party and told me that she had before that ever happened she had earnestly prayed with her mom that God would send her a friend.

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks for sharing and watching ❤

[@ivanluther3823]

Sister, what about Paul's words "except that the Holy Spirit solemnly testifies to me in every city, saying that chains and afflictions await me." It looks like in every town he visited, charismatic churches had the Holy Spirit speak direct personal details about what awaits Paul. Clearly the Bible mandates us to seek to hear from the Holy Spirit on detailed issues. Hence, by the grace of God, cecessationalism is not biblical. I hope you can reconsider your current position and in the Lord return to your former conviction that Jesus speaks through scripture and through scripture-established supernatural prophetic gifts (1st Cor 12-14). "You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you." Sister God bless you and I hope you can rekindle afresh the purposes of God that He has for you.

[@lilpoohbear653]

@@ivanluther3823 God has told us all He is gonna tell us in His Word...it is complete!!! No new words

[@ivanluther3823]

@@lilpoohbear653 Do you believe the Bible? Do you want to obey all of the Bible? The Bible commands us to seek the gift of prophecy to receive new words. They are not new doctrine words, they are specific words like so and so needs to be encouraged in this and that or a specific word to pray about a specific need of a specific person you would not otherwise know. That is a biblical command - to seek such spiritual gifts. The "God has told us all in His word" argument is true in relation to doctrine, but it directly contradicts the explicit commands of the Bible when applied to other categories of revelation. God bless.

[@reidweaver]

@@ivanluther3823 if you are hearing a new "word" from God, you are adding to the scripture and Rev. 22 would bear being read again. For the apostles, they did not have the scripture we have today, that is why we don't need prophetic words today, we already have it.

[@marionalbers8496]

You are such a Kind Person! You are doing a Great Job for The Body of Jesus Christ Thank you may God Bless You!

[@faith_reframed]

Wow, thank you! Appreciate the support 🙏🏼

[@marionalbers8496]

@@faith_reframed you are Welcome Blessings from Holland Amsterdam City

[@MountainMimi816]

I enjoyed listening to you, Jesse! I'm looking forward to hearing your story and the interview with Doreen. ❤️

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks ❤

[@libertylarochelle8517]

Hello from South Australia 🇦🇺. Eagerly awaiting your contents. Thank you.

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you so much 😊 episode two is up and more to come

[@DearWokeChristian]

Thanks for the way you're handling this.

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks brother 🙏🏼

[@jackpullen3820]

Jesse my friend you know God's says any man who claims to be without sin is a liar. None of us have reached the mark of perfection and cannot in this lifetime, what we do obtain is maturity. I know one pastor there who knows what's up and continues serving and praying for all of them to find out the truth. I can't because of the harm they are doing to so many people. I love your honesty, keep up the good work Jesse. I am 70 and looking forward to what's next while also as I read the scriptures seeing much of my life and relationship with God right there in His word, both bad and good.

[@dougroot5670]

What a great episode. Totally looking forward to more!!

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks buddy 😊

[@dougroot5670]

@The Westwoods I've been thinking about your question of what your relationship with God looks like. I've struggled to figure that out myself... but a quote I just read this morning in the book "Not in it to Win it" by Andy Stanley reminded me that my relationship with God wasn't something that Jesus emphasized as much as relationships with others... "Following Jesus didn't require looking for ways to get closer to God...Jesus followers would demonstrate their devotion to God by putting the person next to them in front of them. It was a one-another way of life." Still looking for the balance.

[@kramsdrawde8159]

I enjoyed your video and it was not stiff or wooden to me...Just watched you on F4TF brother Chris Rosborough this friday, had to check you out since you spoke of homesteading. Great job especially in that it was 1st video !!!

[@faith_reframed]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@kellywilsonid]

Loved the mention of Jeff Durbin! Looking forward to hearing this story unfold!

[@DillonJohnsonNRH]

Definitely can relate to your story of living in sin in NAR/extreme Pentecostal spaces. After deconstructing, feel more confident in a healthy version of Pentecost, and am currently with an AG church. Just wanted to let you know that there are Pentecostals out there who are extremely against the bethel type theologies. I almost went to BSSM, but went to a regular Bible college instead, and had tons of Pentecostals strong in theology who helped me get out of a lot of NAR/hyper charismatic thinking. We might be few in number but we are out there.

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks for sharing 👍🏼

[@larryroach6887]

Thank you for this comment about AOG. In the Pentecostal world, they have been solid over the years. There are always exceptions but overall a very solid fellowship of churches.

[@kellyeckert1]

Thank you so much for sharing this! Looking forward to watching more.

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you!

[@whitneyburd4159]

I am a reformed baptist, raised by a godly pastor who was really a reformed baptist continuationist (but referred to himself as charismatic though he had left charismania and the assemblies of God), and who believed in but only practiced privately in prayer the gift of tongues. It was confusing. He has always claimed to have an intimate relationship with God, which I would have to agree that he does. He is the greatest man I have ever known. I have come to disagree with him in some ways... but his relationship with Christ has always seemed out of reach for me. He seems to enjoy a sense of God being present, and says he feels the Holy Spirit speak to him (not audibly) in his spirit, though not giving him weird specific instructions. More like, "I felt compelled to stop and share the gospel with this person" (or pray with them, or give them some money). I have witnessed the Lord do great things through him. I have felt the Lord "compel" me to do things before in a small way as well, that later seemed to make sense with the way events played out. I have never understood if that "compelling" is rejected by cessationists as unbiblical communication with God. It does seem like the Bible shows that the Holy Spirit does guide and influence us. What does that look like specifically in a cessationist view? In answer to your question, my personal relationship with God looks like reading His Word, experiencing the changing work that God does in me through it, and enjoying all the benefits of understanding the gospel's implications on my life: joy, peace, a deepened affection and concern for others, as well as the richness that the world takes on when you see things from a Christian perspective. Also, worship is like medicine to me. I can't claim that I feel I have communication with Him much, and for a long time I thought that was a failure on my part. I am starting to doubt that. It seems enough that God speaks to me through His Word, which provides all I need to know and enjoy Him in full. Thank you for doing this channel, the few interviews I've heard from you have already helped to clarify and heal some of my theology. God bless!

[@SuperORION91]

I was raised Baptist, then my mother married my, now, late stepfather and he introduced me, my brother and my mother to "Full Gospel" Holiness and Pentecostal denominations. I also attended a few Brownsville Revival services back in the late 90s. As a kid seeing people slain in the spirit, shaking on the floor, and laughing uncontrollably literally terrified me as a kid and for many years felt like there was something bad wrong with this. Then later on in life, after I asked Christ into my life and repented of my horrible sin, it became very, very clear that these types of doctrines are not only unbiblical, but they are dangerous. The Good News of the Gospel should be the highest priority that should be taught and preached at these churches to the masses. Not these insane, destructive chaotic doctrines that are being taught that are disguised as something having to do with God and Christianity. My walk with God is getting more and more close as the days go on. I talk to Him like I would a very close parent while at the same time showing gratitude, humility and the utmost respect. Because I know fully that who I'm talking to is the Savior of my soul as well as the Creator of Heavens and the Earth. I pray that more and more people hear the Gospel and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior

[@anotherdayatthefeast8100]

My personal relationship with God consists of time in the written Word, reading it, meditating on it. Confession, repentance and keeping myself from corrupting influences. It also consists of prayer and fellowship, witnessing and worship.

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you for this 🙏🏼

[@Kenneth-ik9qs]

Love that you are doing this! I have a cousin who’s daughter is at the BSSM now and want all the information I can get to be able to talk to him intelligently about exactly what they believe and why it’s dangerous.

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@alissajohnson4487]

Thank you.for sharing. Please continue.

[@faith_reframed]

More to come!

[@freedomhouseministries]

I grew up in a Baptist church, a Bible teaching church, which I am very grateful for, but I don't consider myself strictly a "Baptist" any more, primarily because I am devoted to the Word and find the cessation argument to be very weakly supported from Scripture. At the same time I recognize the imbalance of those who focus on experiencing signs and miracles as the central focus of their relationship with Jesus Christ. I abide daily in Jesus, which means I start the day with the Word, prayer, and thanksgiving. and I pray all throughout the day, talking to God about everything and taking thoughts captive to make them obedient to Scripture. I end each day with self examination (realignment with the Word), confession, repentance, and thanksgiving. This is all very natural at this point in my life. I don't have to struggle to do these things. God does speak to me in a very personal way, not audibly, primarily through Scripture and always in keeping with Scripture. Occasionally, I have had a dream that seemed prophetic that I talked to God about for days before encountering a Scripture passage that gave me clarify and understanding. If I ever had "a revelation" that was counter to the Bible, I would reject it as not of God--either of my own flesh or of the enemy. Both are equally possible. I ask of every teaching "Is this true according to the Word?" (I read Bill Johnson's book "When Heaven Invades Earth" and determined from that book that Bill Johnson is not a Bible scholar and handles Scripture very loosely.) The Holy Spirit convicts me of sin, counsels me, reminds me of the teachings of Jesus, prods me, and sometimes restrains me. I have a sense that God is always responding to my prayers, though not always saying "yes" to them. I keep my eyes open for how God is working around me, especially as to how the Holy Spirit is stirring people to ask and think and seek. I practice fasting as a discipline of surrender and realignment rather than as a way to get something I am asking for. I have embraced memorizing Scripture as a means of giving the Holy Spirit more to work with in transforming me into the image of Christ. One thing I have observed in many who reject all things that might be labeled "Pentecostal" or "Charismatic" is the tendency to get stuck in their own heads and to divorce themselves from emotion and anything that isn't rooted purely in the physical world, but I see in Scripture the mind, the will, and the emotions all being surrendered in obedience to God and all being used by the Holy Spirit in the lives of Believers if we will let Him. This isn't a salvation issue but an issue of walking in everything that God has for us in this life. I ask God if something is real and good and true and from Him, and He confirms for me in His Word, not by out-of-context Bible verses, but through whole, consistent teachings. I often ask people, "Do you know Jesus as your savior?" If they respond "yes," then I ask, "What does that mean to you?" The answers are all over the place but give us a place to begin a conversation centered on the Word of God and what it teaches about Jesus dying for my sins in my place on the cross to take the penalty that I deserve for my sins. In recent years these conversations have required much more defining of terms and explaining than ever before. (Who is Jesus? What did He save you from? How did He save you? Why did you need saving? What is the result of that salvation? What about the rest of your life on this earth now that you have been saved?) Many who claim salvation through Jesus have never thought very much about what that means.

[@jenniferbacoka947]

Yes…As someone who was in the Charismatic Movement and influenced indirectly by Bethel, I can relate to your comment about how it was about the deep (I thought) relationship with Jesus. It was a perceived intimacy that I had because I listened to the still, small voice. I was sure it was Him, yet I never thought to test it against His own Word.

[@jobrown8146]

SUGGESTION: Put a link in the YT description to the interview you did with Steve Kozar, Messed Up Church: Former Insider, Jesse Westwood: "How Bethel Teaching is Ruining People's Faith". I enjoyed that interview and this current video and look forward to your future videos. Thank you.

[@faith_reframed]

Good suggestion and thanks 🙏🏼

[@establish82]

Bro loved the episode. We got some stuff in common for sure! Ex IHOPER here. Also into homesteading! Keep the good content coming.

[@faith_reframed]

Homesteading for the win! Thanks for watching

[@MiguelGebremedhin]

I consider myself a charismatic but I do not speak in tongues and if I participate in the prophetic I have a great deal of caution and skepticism. My sister and I were both at IHOP a few years ago and she recently started attending an Orthodox Presbyterian sanctuary (with her husband). I currently attend a Presbyterian church myself but am still friends with many people IHOP, UpperRoom, and BSSM. I’m comfortable holding certain topics in tension, unless I think it’s just egregiously one sided. I take comfort in the idea that God will providentially lead me where I should go if I continue to follow him. I enjoyed this video !

[@faith_reframed]

Hey, thank you so much for your perspective and Sherry. I’m so happy with the mix of people we have come into the channel. Please continue to provide feedback :-)

[@oscarfabi_]

Hi from Sweden Jesse, your testimony does what the word means, it testifies of the great grace of God! That the gospel is what Christ already has accomplished on the cross and through His resurrection! We reply by repenting and believing the gospel. Here in Sweden an overwhelming majority of people are atheist or agnostic, honestly just enemies of God and it's showing. The people who claim to be christians are either NAR/ Word of Faith charismatics or woke, the actual biblical churches are few and far between. At times I feel like I am all alone in my biblical theology, (even though I'm not). There is a biblically sound (reformed baptist) church in Gothenburg and Stockholm, the problem is that I live in Malmö. God bless you brother, and by God's grace and will we might find or start a sound biblical church even where I live.

[@faith_reframed]

Wow all the way from Sweden! Honored to encourage any way I can. Blessings brother

[@lesothobound]

So good to hear from Sweden. I have a dear friend there who has yet to come to Christ. Praying often for her. I shall now include you in that prayer. May God encourage and lead you daily.

[@mimilikankkunen4865]

Hello from Finland! We seem to have more grounded biblical teaching here in the new lutheran branch 'lähetyshiippakunta' , but the main lutheran church disowned this 'reformed' branch.. The reformed believe in Biblical values and are not bowing down to cultural wokeism, so the main church doesn't recognize it as a part of the main lutheran church anymore. Blessings to Sweden, hope you grow in your faith and are not discouraged! We also have some bent toward NAR, and some of my relatives actually went to BSSM... And never since has it been easy to talk doctrinal issues. Grieves my heart..

[@oscarfabi_]

@@mimilikankkunen4865 God bless you! It's hard to remain faithful to Jesus Christ, in a culture that hates us, and abide in the true doctrines of scriptures. We all need to examine whether we are in the faith, daily repentance of sin is something you never hear from so called "christians" here. Hope you have found a good church!

[@ab-gail]

Excited for the rest of the series! ❤

[@faith_reframed]

Thank yiu!

[@ab-gail]

@@faith_reframed Thank yiu as well! 😊

[@matiasoppliger8916]

I studied some church-history of the last some hundred years... The thing about "my personal relationship with Jesus" can also be tracked back to the pietism movement. Though I do think this personal relationship is important, it is never only "me and my Jesus"! As you pointed out it is more important to understand the gospel and live a transformed life than have nice feelings!

[@dawnhill1613]

Thank you for sharing this!!

[@faith_reframed]

You are so welcome!

[@matthewmartin7639]

So I come from a traditional southern Baptist, reformed/loosely Calvinism background. They way I "hear" God is through his word. The scriptures. Usually if I'm struggling with something it's sitting down and reading with no distractions. Nothing at all. And praying while I am reading. Sometimes Intently searching for an answer and sometimes just reading. But always praying that God would reveal whatever knowledge and wisdom he had for me while reading his word. And I would also ask "How does this apply to me in my life today?" And FIND the application. Or be convicted of sin in your life. Or just sit silently after reading and praying, talking to God. Praising him for who he is, how he loves, and what he does.

[@dexxadax]

Thank you, Mr. Westwood.

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks for listening 🙌🏼

[@denisesmith3544]

since you asked . . . my "personal relationship with God' mainly consists of consciously putting His word above my circumstances, emotions & feelings. All day long I have the opportunity to get sidelined by my emotions & fears 0R focus instead on God's promises to "Never leave me or forsake me" & that " All things work together for the good, to them who love God, to them who are the called according to His purposes ".

[@faith_reframed]

Love it thank you 🙏🏼

[@LanternMediaMinistry]

Solid point on the similarities between Mormons and Charismatics

[@faith_reframed]

May or may not have a longer project I’m working on with that ;)

[@LanternMediaMinistry]

@@faith_reframed My wife was a part of the Mormon church for a little while. My brother in law and his family are baptized Mormons.

[@faith_reframed]

@@LanternMediaMinistry so sorry 😢

[@LanternMediaMinistry]

@@faith_reframed We have had some very good talks the past few weeks. We continue to pray and share truth when we have the opportunities.

[@cryslaw100]

Thank you for sharing your journey!

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks for watching!

[@chipcole4817]

As an Anglican, I would answer the intimate relationship with God question, by pointing out that I am a member of Christ’s One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, which is his bride.

[@crystalblue413]

As a new Lutheran coming from this type of movement, my relationship with the Lord changed to reverent, humble and a deeper trust in Him, instead of arrogant, irreverent and in a constant state of trying to prove it.

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks for sharing!

[@Window4503]

As a Lutheran, my relationship with God is sort of twofold. There’s the usual reading of the Word, attending church, prayer, etc. The second part is more experiential, not inwardly or emotionally, but outwardly as I notice the ways in which God protects me or blesses me in daily life or educates me on a specific topic through life experiences or an uncannily composed series of Bible study themes from various sources.

[@faith_reframed]

Love this

[@graceful-truth]

I appreciate you doing this in a culture that is vehemently against truth! I was in Word of Faith for 11 years. (Very similar to Bethel!) I will definitely be following your story and sharing!

[@faith_reframed]

Wonderful! Thanks for the support

[@graceful-truth]

@@faith_reframed Of course! I found out about your channel through “The Messed Up Church.”

[@markjob6354]

*I'm still recovering from my old Pentecostal Church, which the leadership thereof had totally embraced Bethel Church Ministry & Doctrinal Teachings. From almost my first exposure to Bethel Church Ministry teaching, I had a serious check in my spirit regarding the extreme over-emphasis on Love, Love, Love, and only calling out the Gold in people and never confronting sin, or discussing the need for The Sinner to truly Repent, and a general de-emphasis on the doctrine of Salvation in Jesus Christ ! Instead of talking about The Gospel, we were being taught to pray for Revival instead (??) Nowhere could I find in Scripture to actually pray for Revival. I once watched an hour in a half video from Bethel Church where a Lady in a leadership position at Bethel discussed the "Charisma" of The Holy Spirit, yet never once mentioned the Name of Jesus. I found this non mention of Jesus so odd I went and confronted my Pastor asking him if he considered it rather unusual someone could talk so long on the subject of the Charisma of The Holy Spirit at Bethel Church, yet never, not even once, mention the name of Jesus, or Salvation, or anything other than a personal, experiential witness ? My Pastor failed to comprehend my concerns and seemed to dismiss them out of hand ? I read when Heaven Invades Earth, and found it rank with doctrinal error ! I could not line up with Biblical Scripture Chapters 1 and 6 outright.*

[@jody2873]

DURBIN👍👍👍👍! He has changed my beliefs- incredible pastor/teacher!

[@faith_reframed]

Th best 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼

[@naomikerwin2303]

The first time I heard of BSSM was from South African missionaries who were located in China. They were proud of their three years there. It is infuriating that they are spreading that nonsense to the most vulnerable.

[@faith_reframed]

That is crazy! Quite the distance for that theology to traverse

[@Blablablahx3]

The last comment was written by my partner lol. As for me, I think it's actually a fairly difficult thing to try to describe or define a personal relationship with God. I think a big part -- if not what completely encompasses the concept -- is what one might call seeking God. I think none of us have a perfect relationship with God and we all lack pretty severely in my opinion but ideally your relationship with God would include going to him with everything -- worries, needs, desires, questions, requests, thanks, suffering, etc. Like relying on God as GOD. And, seeing God as GOD I think (and you could even potentially say _necessarily_) includes seeing him as your heavenly father, your savior, your lord, your teacher, your friend, etc. Actually that leads me to this next concept that I think is part of what constitutes having a relationship with God, which is getting to know God. I think we can get more familiar with God -- getting to know him _better_. One way I would say I've gotten to know God is being in certain situations in life where I've witnessed how God demonstrates his faithfulness, his graciousness, his kindness, his wisdom, his justice, his might, his holiness, etc. I think when we "give God a chance" in our lives in a practical sense by waiting, depending on, trusting in him...we end up seeing who God is. Like the Israelites who cried out to God and were rescued from Egypt. God did it so that everyone would know his name (AKA who he was)! He demonstrated who he was by acting! God works in different ways in all of our lives but so far this is what I've experienced in my life. (P.S these situations I went through very often involved scripture) I kinda wanna conclude with this simplistic idea. As human beings we have relationships with other people. Describing a relationship between two human beings isn't that easy either, but I think you could simply say that there is some sort of connection or communication between the two. And there are SO many ways to connect or communicate. You can do it by talking, and you can do it by acting, in a myriad of ways. Laughing together, listening to each other, confiding in each other, doing activities together, giving gifts to each other, etc. BUT...clearly a caveat is missing here. 😂 Every relationship is unique because each person is unique. And I'm talking about the God of Abraham, so that changes a lot. 🥲And we have this written account we call the bible which God uses to communicate or connect with us. I believe God provided these writings (at least partly?) as study material lol. It's like he's our dad and he gave us this thing like homework to help us connect with him. 😝 So the bible says a ton of stuff and that's part of the relationship between us and God, which can include so many things like praying the scriptures, fasting, going to church, learning from the law, providing for our brothers and sisters, the bread and the wine, baptism, confession, etc. So I think part of having a relationship with God is...learning to have a relationship with God. (lolol maybe that's the true conclusion.....which I just noticed this means I pretty much came full circle with the seeking God thing I said at the beginning XD)

[@tahuyachris]

more, please!!!!

[@the_resa_]

Great Video. I went to Charis Bible College (Andrew Wommack’s college, not sure if it’s a familiar name over at bethel) but now I’m wondering whether I should start a series like this !

[@faith_reframed]

That would be amazing! Lmk if I can help in any way

[@the_resa_]

@@faith_reframed thank you!!

[@edgarsamper4088]

This is very necessary. People need to know the truth.

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks!

[@chesterfamilychurch3390]

Have just found your channel via your interview with Chris Roseborough. We were in a Charismatic word of faith prosperity gospel church in South Africa for many years. Praise God we left and started a church in the UK. Unfortunately….we came with all our “wrong baggage and doctrine” to share with the Brits! We thought we had all the answers to the folks sicknesses and problems etc. But our God is a good God. He led us to the likes of Chris Roseborough, Paul Washer, Justin peters, Kozars etc and so our real training began. With churches like Bethel, Hillsong, our church in SA etc….you tend to be in their bubble and you do not see the errors they teach. You accept what they say from the platform as gospel and you don’t read or study the word yourself as you are too busy doing the works of the ministry. We were busy practically every night 24/7 so there was no time to see if what was preached was correct or not. It was only when we got out of the church and looked back…that our eyes were opened. I believe that this is the case with a lot of these congregants in these churches. They take what the Pastor/Teacher says as gospel. May God in His mercy open their eyes like He did ours. I am forever grateful to our Lord for leading us to sound biblical teachers to show us the error of these mega churches. Keep up the good work Westwoods. Many will be drawn away from Bethel by your exposure of this church.

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks for Sharing 🙏🏼

[@ryanehlis426]

I know a married couple that are moving to Redding to go to BSSM, very exciting.

[@faith_reframed]

😬

[@FreedomBeaconMinistries]

I'm thinking that if you say that your gift is Discernment, you're not going to be accepted into the school. 😁

[@tripletgirl2484]

Very interesting! Thanks

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you!

[@redantdc]

thanks for sharing this video - the application process seemed pretty normal but I'm curious why you called it a red flag when you were accepted ? You said you withheld certain private sin issues from them. Were you expecting them to read your mind? Even if God did reveal sins to them why would that be a reason to reject a student? The irony of Jesus accepting Judas as one of his disciples, knowing full well that he would betray him, is a reminder of the complexity and nuances of human relationships. Despite knowing of Judas' future actions, Jesus chose to love and accept him, demonstrating the unconditional love and forgiveness that is at the heart of the Christian message. In many ways, this story is reflective of our own lives and relationships. We, too, encounter people ( or institutions) who may betray or disappoint us, yet we are still called upon to love and accept them. This can be difficult, especially when we feel hurt or betrayed.

[@favioluevano2941]

My personal relationship with God begins in his word. I try to study not just the scriptures themselves but catch the character of God and how the Bible depicts his glory. I to was born again in the charismatic church and was taught that the Bible taught us about God but in a very twisted and narcissistic way, I love how God’s word doesn’t shy away from our flaws it actually highlights them. But then shows the awesomeness of the God who rescues us from our folly and woefully thinking. The Bible says we are in Christ and that we were baptized into his body, I can’t see how you can get more intimate that that. John 5:39-40 [39] You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, [40] yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. I love how this verse tells us what the Bible is about and how it stands in stark contrast to what I was always taught in the Charismatic church.

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you so much for this response 🙌🏼❤️🙌🏼

[@jwill9690]

Hey, when you said you “blazed right through, and weren’t fully honest with them, and it should have discredited you but it didn’t..” are you saying that they knew you weren’t being honest with them? Thx

[@Blablablahx3]

to answer your question as a lutheran, God is like an absent father...... To answer this more seriously, we believe in the means of Grace being those the scriptures and the sacraments. So personally, reading the bible is an experience of God, same thing when I take the bread and the wine, I take that an experiencing God as divine food.

[@E.K.2003]

I looked at their syllabus. A student would have a daunting schedule to fufill. Then there is the high tuition for a non-academic, non-accredited degree in sorcery. I've read horror stories about Bethel students working off tuition debts by doing chores at the homes of Bethel leaders. I'm curious as to what their response would be if someone confessed to a sin issue.

[@trista_sue_writes]

My personal relationship with God looks like studying Scripture, spending time in prayer, and living my life to glorify Him. I think charismatics tend to over-complicate it. Like, you have to "hear His voice" and "feel His presence". But what better way to be close to God than be reading His written Word? 💜

[@faith_reframed]

Amen thanks for the response 🙏🏼

[@nathankinman7753]

Glad to find your channel. As someone who spent 33 years in the charismatic movement; I was wondering: From your perspective, why would some churches who castigate Bethel doctrines, sing Bethel songs? (And sing Hillsong and Elevation as well)?

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks! Good questions. I’m honestly still trying to figure that out myself. Definitely feels Ike a double standards for surr

[@johnnydev9318]

I believe most of those churches (mine included) are just ignorant of the nature of Bethel/Hillsong/Elevation etc. They just sing the songs because the songs are supposed to be good/popular and that’s about it - there is no examination of the teachings of those churches that produce the songs

[@daffodilaura]

@@faith_reframed Perhaps because people don't know those songs come from Bethel. I also have questions about Maverick City Music now...

[@nathankinman7753]

@@JC-sj2pd a lot of reformed churches are too legalistic. Sometimes if I'm feeling sarcastic, I will say, "Calvinists are just Charismatics who speak in English!" I don't buy into the concept of "predeterminism" because it makes God look responsible for the sins which man makes, and it takes the stigma off the offenders who commit the sins. I also don't buy into the legalism of women strictly staying at home doing domestic duties while only men work. No, if two people choose to have sex and a pregnancy occurs, BOTH of those two people have a financial responsibility to that child for 18 years and NINE MONTHS.

[@lilpoohbear653]

@@johnnydev9318 agreed

[@KonigKriegD]

Thank you for sharing this. Very insightful pointing out how they, and you, ignored the major sin issue part not being filled out. Every mature Christian should be aware of their major sin issues. Even if it's minor to others, in you own life it's major.

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks!

[@edwarddavignon7668]

It might be fun to have your favorite non-charismatic interviewers and preachers answer the BSSM application questionnaire in a truthful and honest way, and then perhaps more in a satirical way like a Chris Rosebrough Prophecy Bingo Card.

[@nrkltkman8512]

I hear God through His Word. I have never ‘audibly’ heard God’s voice. I would describe it more of a deep impression voice & it’s only happened once MAYBE twice in my life BUT even during these extremely rare occasions they must line up with Scripture. The more I dive & read the Word the more the Spirit reveals, convicts & encourages me that God is God I am not.

[@faith_reframed]

Love it

[@MyLifeShortFilms]

My personal intimidate relationship, reflects my love for Him as my Savior because He first loved me, by giving up His life for mine. I rely and trust His Word. His truths about Himself and His faithfulness. His Divinity and His mercy and Grace. I hunger for His word daily, and cant ever get enough. I pray daily, and walk and talk with Him daily. But I am founded on the truth of the Gospel, and I preach it to myself daily. To Keep my eyes on Jesus and remind myself of who HE is and who i am not. And who I am IN Christ. The Truth, of the Gospel, keeps me steady and grounded. I don’t waver in other doctrines, because the Bible is consistent and Calvinism and reformed theology teaches that. Therefore, I can be sure, of my God and my Redeemer and who i am in Him. Alone.

[@faith_reframed]

Love this thank you

[@SetTheCaptivesFree4797]

All denominations vary in beliefs, cessation of gifts is secondary. But core doctrines are shared . We need unity in the body of believers!❤ I’m not talking unity of religions. It’s wrong to shun other Christians just because they don’t act like you or happen to be Calvinist. Most charismatics that I know are not just about feelings but more the dwelling on the love of God and what he has done for us. Reconciling us back to him allowing us to have a real relationship day to day and finding him in your private prayer. The Bible is not just a book about history, but should guide you to have a real day to day relationship with Jesus Christ! Reach the lost allowing his love embodied in you, to compel you in compassion to reach the lost in love!

[@SetTheCaptivesFree4797]

What you just described is all of the charismatics I know!❤ minus five point Calvinism.

[@anonymousone2843]

My relationship with the Lord is very strong. I hear His words all the time in Scripture. They are all from His own mouth, therefore, that is His voice. I pray all the time and I "talk" to Him throughout the day. But I don't hear an audible voice (unless I am reading Scripture out loud 🙂). The Holy Spirit convicts me, leads and guides me. An example of this most recently was a strong urge, which seemingly came out of nowhere to just read every Psalm. In my "experience" when that happens there is something or multiple things within the readings that I need to pay attention to. It never ends up with me left wondering. No audible voices, just the word of God in Scripture, the guidance of the Holy Spirit and a strong, humble appreciation, gratitude and love for Jesus' life, sacrifice, salvation and mercy- all of which none of us ever deserve or ever will deserve. Hopefully that makes sense. As a point of reference I was raised in the Evangelical Lutheran Church, but have distanced myself from the actual organization over the years. They began to fall into the trap of the "woke" disease. Men are pastors, marriage is a man and a woman and we are all horrible sinners. Many of the Lutheran Churches have strayed from those tenants these days. Prayers you embrace the guidance and comfort of the Holy Spirit as you continue to grow out of the Bethel "experience ". God Bless 🥰

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@SetTheCaptivesFree4797]

If God spoke to you in a dream would you deny it? Or in your heart while in prayer? Is he the same God to you that never changes ? Same God as yesterday that gave dreams and spoke to many people who sought after his heart?

[@AllThingsNew1723]

Thank you for this…I agree that we hear God through His written word, but I talk to Him all day…I’m not understanding what is wrong with that…(I’m wanting to learn, I’m not trying to argue…just want to understand what you meant by that)

[@rayleinbaugh9665]

I enjoy and rejoice that Jesus is removing scales from people's eyes, It is The Almighty testing to see who loves HIM truely.#1His word,if the ask for money and everything in total context.was in a baptist upbringing married a charismatic and everything just got weird till I was deceived for 20yrs. And then went into Hebrew roots movement and only by God's amazing Grace He taught me His Sovereignty,Amen keep up the Truth brother 🙏..

[@faith_reframed]

🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼

[@aseelbrodd779]

Yes more ❤❤

[@faith_reframed]

On it!

[@christianashby382]

Hey great job! really looking forward to more of your episodes this type of content is so important to get out. It is unbelievable how many churches are supportive and practicing the ideals that Bethel propagates. I think some of the worst ones are those that do it in a very Hidden but seductive way full of truisms but that are ultimately misleading. I think a good Way to measure our relationship with Christ is how we handle trials and temptations. Are we obedient to Christ as evidence of our faith? Of course not perfectly but is that our consistent pattern of our life? Do we ignore the sin in our life or do we despise it and deal with it properly by confessing and repenting? We need to be honest with ourselves and ask God to reveal His truth to us in prayer so that we do not deceive ourselves. With love to all my brothers and sisters God bless!

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you! Looking forward to making more

[@ribread9501]

Your discussion and wonders about that topic of "what is your relationship with God?" portion really struck me and got me thinking about it. I sort of tend to do that "oh ok, thank You God, got it" daily muttering and interaction a lot, and whenever it happens I consider in my head if it's really God guiding me or if I'm trying to place myself into that space and just talking to myself (I tend to overthink and overworry). I struggle a bit with the "voices in my head", but comparatively my mom has told me that she feels and hears God so much clearer than she ever has (we've been through a lot lately), but I don't have the same experience as her. Maybe it's because I'm not as spiritually mature, and maybe it's because God interacts with me differently. Regardless though, there's some important aspects I always try to keep in mind: is it not obvious? Is it confusing? And, does it match what I want, or what God wants? God is not confusing, and He's pretty obvious and clear when it's Him, it's just not in our timing or control. This is rather silly but this is an example of what I sometimes experience in this relationship: I'm desiring to go out and eat somewhere but I've already spent quite a bit of money on necessities and it might be a good idea to keep some cash on hand or save it for something more important. Regardless my flesh is nagging at me, so I pray about it. While I'm sitting in my living room all dressed up and ready to go, I hear two voices trying to convince me of one way or the other; that it's ok vs. wouldn't be ok. And all the while, I'm struggling to figure out which might be God's wisdom. What is the right decision for Him? But the answer does not become clear, and minutes pass. Until finally I get up and just say heck with it and go for the door. But then I feel a strong warning, deep, and I hate it to compare it to that "bosom" feeling, but it is a strong urge, a pull if you will, to keep me away from that door, and I feel that sometimes even if it doesn't make sense (I've felt it a lot when I'm driving and I get a little prompt about slowing down, and turn the corner and see that there was an officer car). Sometimes though I don't get that, and I'll be able to leave and go to the place I want to go, only to find that the place was closed unexpectedly, etc. Regardless, both cases tell me an obviousness and I feel relief about the matter. And with reading the Bible, I think that obviousness and connection to God gets better. I'll read a section and things make a bit more sense in day to day life. I'll worry about something but then it'll pass because ultimately God will take care of it. And in that, I get skeptical and more aware of the voices in my head, the placements of myself. And they get more and more quiet as I trust God. My relationship with God is to be His humble servant, to not make it be about me, and to seek to do what is good and right in His eyes based upon His words, His wisdom and His understanding, not my own. I think we DO have a spiritual pull and communication through the Holy Spirit, and it's a deep feeling that can't exactly be described. But when it comes to relationship, you're right, we need the right scripture, we need God's word. It helps us to identify God in all things, to keep our minds sober and steadfast, and to know rights from wrongs. I'm still learning and growing just as you are, and in high school I used to be that person that could only describe my relationship with God as that funny feeling you can't describe, because I didn't read my Bible. Apologies for this quite long comment, I've just never really had the opportunity to sort through this in particular to someone. Ultimately God's word allows us to attempt to understand God, and how to be in this relationship with Him. Thank you for that question!

[@faith_reframed]

Thanks for sharing! Appreciate the feed back

[@hannahtribbitt1779]

❤️❤️❤️

[@mmpapabear5150]

Folks, I can attest that whatJustin is saying is accurate. I was at Bethel for over 34 years. Although I did not really know the minutiae of applying to BSSM, I do know he is telling the truth. Please listen to him. Thank you Justin for speaking out

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you so much 🙌🏼

[@Kelly-wj7xd]

I went to an evangelical church and I always thought there was something wrong with me. I never heard God's voice directly, I was always embarrassed with the shouting out in tongues and prophecy people did because I think I did not quite believe it. I did want these gifts for a long time. Then I watch F4 f, Justin Peters, Steven kozar and American gospel. I see things differently now.

[@MyLifeShortFilms]

Praying for you, brother.

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@glorialapp4751]

My husband did first year right after high school. He also had a large sexual purity sin issue he didn’t divulge… but then towards the end of the first year he did tell his pastor or someone.. and he wasn’t allowed to do second year mostly because of it. Idk if they offered him to do first year again, but he didn’t he came back to PA… kinda went off the deep end for a couple years and then had a real encounter with Jesus shortly before I met him. I’d be interested to have him listen to your videos 😊 Where we live in PA there are a lot of Amish and the Mennonite culture is very reserved and conservative- but our church is what I believe to be such a great balance of working in the gifts of the spirit but being solidly founded on the word. Fire tunnels always made me so uncomfortable 😂 felt like I had to whip something up or people would look at me like there’s something wrong with me or I must not have that close of a relationship with the Lord cause I’m not shaking and falling on the floor

[@faith_reframed]

I would love to hear his thoughts! Maybe even interview him if he is up for it 😀

[@lindarice4695]

If you want to understand solid evangelical teaching, purchase the workbook Experiencing God by Henry Blackaby. It is now 30+ years old but timeless in its teaching of hearing and doing the will of God.

[@travismayselah]

What happened? Did you stop doing episodes?

[@aryalatuihamallo1744]

anybody has a Spotify playlist they can share that doesn't contain Bethel or Elevation or anyone associated with them?

[@SerenityNow22]

I’m very happy you’ve come to Reformed theology and haven’t abandoned the faith. I too came to reformed theology but from Arminianism. Looking forward to this series!

[@faith_reframed]

Thank you!

[@Chelz15]

By God's grace, in 2017, I had the courage to leave the NAR-"church" cult that I grew up in (they're directly associated with BSSM, yikes!!) It may be a road that I had to take all by myself, but nothing compares to this freedom!

[@drd2341]

I remember my crazed relatives said they would pay for me if I wanted to go to IHOP and/or Bethel... my cousins went and I decided they became entirely weird, wacky, and full of themselves after going...I was like "no thanks"

[@faith_reframed]

Good on you for seeing it 🙌🏼

[@manofthecloth777]

This is A.J. You’re pretty good at making these videos! I guess my relationship with God looks like being in the word every morning until I feel like I’ve gotten something to chew on. Praying throughout the day, trying to stay in the Holy Spirit and the fruits that make up His character. I go to church occasionally and have been trying different churches from Baptist to Pentecostal and I don’t know where I fit in and that’s kind of painful to be honest. Main problem I have with Bethel theology is that if you don’t receive a miracle or one doesn’t take place the problem isn’t on His end, it’s on ours. I think they maybe lean too heavily on experience but I don’t think we should throw experience out with the bath water so to speak. Even the people who wrote the word had encounters and experienced God in many different ways. Statistically charismatic folk read the word less than others which is obviously a mistake. Balance. Thanks for sharing 😊

[@faith_reframed]

Miss you man thanks for sharing ❤️

[@mwmoto]

Bro, I would love to talk. Been in ministry 10 years, certificates from worship U , and pastoring at a church in Massachusetts with deep baptist roots… would LOVE to talk.

[@faith_reframed]

email me! [e-mail]

[@jonycruz2430]

I have all of BSSM old videos when the school first started 20+ yrs ago. It was amazing back then. The teachings coming out of there changed my life. Now I just stay away from current stuff. Especially after Bills wife went to be with the lord. Should have left when Bill & his circle couldn’t discern Todd Bentley.

[@faith_reframed]

Wow really??? We should do something if you are up for it. What are you thoughts on the series so far?

[@jonycruz2430]

@@faith_reframed sure what are you thinking? If anything through my journey experiences with different sect of Christianity including NAR (bethel) It actually left me thirsty for the word to find out what my faith is all about through the word. Reading and listening to the whole Bible. I’ve come to the conclusion of things one should ask themselves. 1. Does this align with how the apostles thought? Not a scripture there and then but a collective mindset that’s cohesive between them all 2. Is it something the apostles practiced? (Fire tunnels etc) 3. Are slogans and phrases being said in the gathering found in the Bible? “Slain the in spirit, revival, to be revivalist?” 4. Does it take our attention off something we have been already told to do? (Making disciples instead of being “revivalist” 5. Is there evidence that what is being taught is absolute “God wants to heal all the time” Bill wife dies. 6. What were the foundational truths that made the 1st century church grow? and if we find them let’s throw everything else out because no need. Etc. At the end of the day it’s all about balance. Know I see some new age stuff & possible false doctrine but I also believe those who believe & teach the gifts are not for today are also in heresy.

[@jonycruz2430]

@@faith_reframed let me say positive things about bethel. Their teaching on identity as sons and daughters is second to none. Also revealing the fathers love & spear heading the demonstration of the spirit the gifts and the value of prophesy and the prophetic words. That was their foundation But again I stay clear now.

[@Aleks-JesusismyLORD]

I am more in Lutheran theology, and my relationship with the Lord should be based on knowing Him as He is in truth and built on his word. To live as he pleases, and to give him thanks and praise. And why is this possible ? Because he died for me on the cross on Golghata.

[@faith_reframed]

Love it! Thanks for sharing