Back to the Depraved Heart of the Issue

[@Kenneth-nVA]

Molinism is so built on; my body, my choices, my freedom! Their view of God is really one formed from deism. God sits back and man dictates the scenario because of their ability via uninterrupted freewill ! Molinists will double back ( watch the debate) when it serves their purpose! When pushed regarding God’s sovereignty and providential plans , they strive to meet in the middle.

[@nikokapanen82]

Molinism, Arminianism exist because people do not want to believe God created, decreed and pre-destined almost all people to be burned by God for a literal eternity after pre-destinating them to live a sinful life for a few decades. Yes, these doctrines are failing, badly but people sees no other options in solving the problem of an evil God. We just have to be honest and agree that we have no perfect solution, perfect doctrine in this issue.

[@jameshayes211]

Men are free to choose, by the gracious enabling of the Holy Spirit, though not free to define the consequences of their choices.

[@Choraldiscourse]

@@nikokapanen82 Molinism and Arminianism have to account for the existence of evil also in relation to God. You also suggest eternal punishment is unjust for several decades sin. Can I suggest we have too low a view of sin and too low a view of God/high view of man to hold these beliefs.

[@nikokapanen82]

​@@Choraldiscourse Some Christians seems to be so easy, so content when it comes to most people ending into eternal torment of the lake of fire, while other Christians are not easy on that at all. So why some goes so easy with it as if it not problem? I believe it is because some Christians has a little bit of Pharisee in them, they do not look at the foundation of Gods nature, which is Love and Justice, they rather read the scriptures and goes with them by the letter, without pondering the contradictions it creates. Other Christians, first, looks at God's core nature, they look at God being Love at most and Just to be the least, and therefore are not easy on eternal torment at all, because it contradicts Gods nature. Perfectly just judgement would be as it is said through out the scriptures when God says "i will repay everyone according to their deeds" or "what you sow is what you reap" or "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" where the harm you have done to others, would be the harm done to you, which means an 8 years old child who stole a candy bar, would receive his own just judgement looking at the harm he has caused, a guy who cheats on his wife, would receive his own judgement according to the harm he has done, another guy who kidnaps children, rapes and kills them, would receive his own judgement according to the harm he has done, a demon who is responsible for thousands of people falling into sexual immorality, deserves his judgement and Satan who is the king of all evil deserve his own judgement and so on, each and every being in the universe, would receive their own personal judgement, according to what they have done in their lives. Now that is the perfect just judgement. Since even Satan, the evil of all evils is a finite being, who began to exist, who has a date when he began to do evil and will have a date when God will stop him doing evil, this means that even his iniquities are finite, even his sins are measurable, countable, meaning that even his punishment suppose to be finite. Therefore if the judgement of Satan would be to receive the punishment which would be the lowest pits of the lake of fire in the most torturous condition universally achievable for the next 500 trillion years, we should not even blink an eye, we should say bring it on, lets judge him, but if his punishment is truly and endless conscious torment, never ending suffering, everything breaks down, the foundation like justice goes out of the window, the foundation like mercy goes out of the window, the core foundation - Love, goes out of the window. Everything what God suppose to represent fundamentally cease from existing in the moment, when endless conscious torment is mentioned. Justice and eternal torment cannot co-exist together, justice and endless torment is a flat out contradiction. Once again, some Christians has no care about this, because they don't like to think, other Christians knows very well that this is a serious fundamental problem which could be solved only if those places in the Bible where it is said about torment forever and ever are not literally true but an exaggerations, a hyperbolic language.

[@samuelchan3920]

Looollllll this is meme material

[@JesusGarcia-Digem]

Excellent highlights! God bless

[@hondotheology]

keep up the good work sir

[@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah]

To me, it just seems to follow, by definition, on Molinism god is merely a lowercase-g god and not the capital-G God.

[@timothyvenable3336]

Wow well said!

[@peteryang2067]

I’m curious to hear a Molinist explain Satan, his nature origin and purpose

[@fuzzycounsellor9147]

13:17 of video >> It would if your daughter hates bikes & you trying to force her to, when she would rather be having a tea party with her imaginary Molinest girlfriend who you cannot see. We/he imagine/s (reads into the example) a willing, happy to learn daughter, desirous of having the ability to ride a bicycle, not one who is totally apposed to it. Presupposition is everything.

[@rdubyatjr]

Evil does not exist by nature. It is not a “thing” it’s a twisting of God’s goodness, his energies which are all good.

[@nikokapanen82]

Yes, evil is a corruption of God's goodness, His righteous attributes but since it is possible to do, to twist and corrupt goodness, then in some sense evil does exist and it is a very strongly sensible thing.

[@rdubyatjr]

@@nikokapanen82 In a sense yes, evil does not exist until we give it existence through our actions. It still isn’t a created thing and it originates with us and satan.

[@fuzzycounsellor9147]

​@@rdubyatjr "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things." Isaiah 45:7 I know modern translations like to translate this calamity, but the word is literally evil/bad. God uses evil & evil people to punish his people and all those who violate His law. Was not what happened to Messiah evil? Yet the LORD decreed it to happen. Does using evil make God evil? Of course not. When society punishes evil doers does it make it evil? Trying to say God doesn't cause evil is a fool's errand. Best to explain it's function rather than say it isn't of God since he takes full credit for it in His own word.

[@OneMan-wl1wj]

Yea... gonna have to agree, when the subject matter causes the researcher to commit suicide after his research.... the material was a little too dark.

[@dylanmilks]

I've come over to the Calvinist side slowly over the past 2 years. I find that it's so freeing to believe in a sovereign God who's sovereign over EVERYTHING, as compared to this Molinist BS.

[@SolaScriptura21]

I have a feeling the Greeks would have liked molinism

[@ghostl1124]

I accept the whole Bible, and not just the various theological systems that are trying their best to explain it.

[@jimmyallen9188]

What made him an idiot? Was he drunk?

[@askingwhyisfree7436]

Evil is needed for Good to exist. The question is why is the world like this today? The point of good and evil is to choose good and shun evil. The world chose evil deliberately which is why there's so much suffering today. It's like when you take an exam, there's choices. The goal is to choose the right answer but there's no power of choice if there's only the right answer and there's no wrong choices. The teaching of the world is to literally choose the wrong choice and it speaks that the wrong choice is also right. The world don't understand the objective of this reality. You should choose the correct answer. The correct answer is dictated by the teacher. The teacher is God. The world don't recognize God as the teacher because of pride hence choosing what they deem is right when in reality, the right they know is the wrong answer. This then makes the world see evil as good which proliferates the sufferings we have today. What is the solution? Go back to the teacher. Listen to Him. He is GOD. If you don't listen to the teacher, then your understanding of right and wrong will be distorted because you trust your own understanding of what is good and evil. What God said good is good and what He said evil is evil. We are like little children trying to outsmart the teacher who knows knowledge far beyond our understanding. LISTEN. Ask. Seek. Knock.

[@alt-monarchist]

James White doesn't understand Free Will because he doesn't understand that the ORTHODOX CHURCH is the only true Church. Also when will James debate Jay Dyer???

[@Lcirilo10]

Lol go to bed, I don’t understand why you want free will so bad. I have the freedom to reply to this comment and to not reply a second or third time but God knew we would be here and he decrees it as such for his purpose. I don’t understand what you get with this “free will” you want so bad.

[@alt-monarchist]

@@Lcirilo10 I am not in bed because it's most likely that God predestined that I still stay awake and demand that James White debate Jay Dyer

[@ghostl1124]

Do you refer to the Eastern Orthodox Church?

[@alt-monarchist]

@@ghostl1124 which is the Orthodox church

[@Lcirilo10]

@@alt-monarchist well played 😂

[@MaiaGothmog]

I reject TULIP

[@rolysantos]

You have the free will to reject TULIP.............or DO you?

[@oracleoftroy]

I don't like TULIP either. I much prefer the clear statements found in the Canons of Dort.

[@jameshayes211]

I reject ULI.

[@toddcote4904]

You like daisies instead? He loves me He loves me not He loves me He loves me not

[@jameshayes211]

@@toddcote4904 He loves me, and not me only, but also the whole world (cf. John 3:16; 1 John 2:2).