Backpacking Stove Efficiency, Part 1: Pot Diameter, Burner Size, Flame Level

[@bugnug5332]

Efficiency by flame level has been something I've wondered about every time I used my stove, but I never bothered to test it. Thank you for doing the hard work for us.

[@GearSkeptic]

Most welcome! I hope it helps.

[@hikerJohn]

These are great tests . . . I think we all suspected and predicted some of these results but I thought lids would make a bugger difference. Looking forward to the aluminum tests.

[@RC-qf3mp]

You are a beacon of hope and rationality in an age of radical political polarization, disinformation, outright lies, conspiracy theories and BS. I am not and will never be a democrat or republican. I’m a hiker. And I hike to get away from the bs. Thank you for your service to humanity by embodying the highest ideals of rational thought.

[@GearSkeptic]

Thank you so much! One of the things I get out of this project is a temporary escape from all those things you mentioned.

[@Jacob-ly8vs]

It's important to have our ways of coping with the stress the world imparts on us! I have very similar reasons for getting into this hobby, but I think it's worth saying that you are still a member of our society. You come back to a community when your hiking trips are over. And that community needs you in it. Please participate in it.

[@RC-qf3mp]

@@Jacob-ly8vs yeah, well, I was going to rejoin society but then noticed Bud Light hired a man who pretends to be a woman to be their spokesman, or spokeswomen or something. No thanks. Turning off the news. Planning my next hike.

[@kristasmith7270]

Hooray! I completely agree with the well said comment! 🎉

[@K9River]

Politics won't leave you alone. If you don't participate, most of the time, your inferiors will govern you.

[@slinnky]

I'm a professional instructional designer - who specializes in teaching content through video. This is one of the best instructional videos I've ever seen. It ticks so many boxes for instructional best practices. I'm going to use your video as an example when I teach.

[@thek3743]

really good, but too long. half an hour would be perfect

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks very much! That really means a lot, and I sincerely appreciate it.

[@GmailNexus]

@@thek3743 go 1.5x Bro 😅

[@yagopone7404]

Was looking forward to the next water treatment episode, but GearSkeptic adds yet ANOTHER insanely thorough series into the mix. Absolutely wild. This man cannot be stopped.

[@GearSkeptic]

Too many pots...boiling on the stove!

[@matthewnovak9161]

@@GearSkeptic Don't boil yourself out...

[@tak2w]

Wow! I thought I was a gear nerd, but you take it to a whole new level. Thanks for all the many hours you put into these tests! I look forward to your wind tests. I know from real world experience the the BRS-3000 is SEVERELY impacted by wind. In fact, if you don't use a windscreen with it even just a moderate breeze can keep you from being able to bring it to a boil at all.

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks! And yah, I'm totally expecting wind to change some of these conclusions.

[@jaybutera3353]

Thank you for this video. It's so refreshing to see real science, solid lab techniques, and good data brought into these discussions. I watched all 47 minutes and loved it all.

[@GearSkeptic]

You’re welcome, and thank you!

[@kmichaelp4508]

I can’t believe I watched this whole video 🤔 I stayed for the humor. Ended up learning. Amazed at your engineering. Mind blowned by your knowledge.😄

[@Jay_in_Japan]

5:08 Seeing this setup just gave me a flashback to the -40 field exercise in interior Alaska. So there we were, huddled in our snow cave. Time for dinner! Go to turn the stove on. Nothing. It was literally so cold that the gas had condensed to the bottom of the canister and absolutely refused to come out the top. We wound up needing to warm the canister up with our body heat before it finally would ignite. Crazy cold, yo

[@fratomdev]

Loved it. I am a Mech Eng and spent 4 years doing heat transfer and fluid flow. As I said loved it.

[@GearSkeptic]

Awesome! Thanks!

[@michaelstone7308]

This amount of attention to detail is exactly the type of channel i can enjoy

[@morgantrias3103]

the effort and detail of this is superb. It does simply confirm my existing behaviour that I must always keep the flame level to only be visible at the base of the pot and stove quiet. I am surprised that lid makes so little difference and may in fact cause inefficiency because I don't notice the temperature signs to stop as soon. Thank you.

[@GearSkeptic]

A lid will make a bit more difference when the wind starts (see Part 2), but it’s still less than I thought it would be!

[@cgnicolis]

"Or, if you're on the metric system, that's alUminium." Pure gold.

[@GearSkeptic]

😉

[@ak983625]

This I’ve always known. I’ve long had a miniMo which has and still serves great camp meals. I use my brs3000 with moderate flame and a toks pot on long hikes. I’m amazed by the number a campers who always turn up all stoves to full blast and blow flame and butane out into space. And their fuel runs out day 4.

[@PedroDeLlama]

Wicked surprising. Not the results, but the entertainment value. How is it possible that a cannot suffer regular speed through an 8-12 minute gear review video with all sorts of effort put into cinematography, but I could not bear to fast forward even one minute of this video!

[@OLAISLA-qh7kp]

❤

[@mattbigmonster]

Eye opening and amazing amount of hard work. This is one of those milestones that will be referenced for next decade in UL world and on reddit. Thank you.

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks! That is genuinely appreciated.

[@emeryz10]

Thank you for your hard work and dedication. It is greatly appreciated. You make excellent content, please keep making videos.

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks very much! I may be slow, but I am steady.

[@BernardTicToc]

Another great video. Best part, no bias, no defending a brand, no belittling of others choice, just raw data! Sure there was some ribbing at the man in gray (devils advocate) but never hostility. Thank you for providing a service to the backpacking/hiking community!

[@GearSkeptic]

The man is gray is really a voice in my own head!

[@blueklister]

There is a man in gray in all of us, depending on the subject!

[@davidsteinhour5562]

You dropped a video debunking camp stoves and lids, Jim Lill dropped a video debunking guitar tone and recording. Lots of scientific testing, all in the same day. I'm in heaven.

[@TheWinkingPigBarBQ]

I recently purchased a FireMaple "Greenpeak" gas stove that is very similar to the MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe, I also purchased their "FMC-XK6 Aluminum Cookware" that is a single 1L pot equipped with a finned heat exchanger on the bottom of the pot. Last Saturday, I took it out on a 15.3-mile (round-trip) hike to a local park. There was a rather stiff continuous breeze blowing, and as best I could using my body and a plastic trash barrel attempted to negate the breeze as much as possible. I was amazed how fast I was able to get 750ml of water to a boil, cook my ramen with a single serving Spam and spray cheese combination. It was actually an enjoyable experience considering the wind conditions. As a guy with 30+ yrs. as an HVAC service technician, I was happy to see you devote quite a bit of time to evaporative cooling as it applies to the use of a lid on the pot, and also how it affects the pressure in the gas canister, because it is the evaporation of the liquid to a gas within the canister that causes it to cool - "Boyle's Law". Thanks for the video, I enjoyed it.

[@GearSkeptic]

Yah, I am looking forward to being able to test the HX pots in wind!

[@dansklrvids7303]

I have literally wondered about this for years. I can't believe how good and thorough this video is. Thank you for your effort!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thank you! I appreciate that. Hopefully some of it helps.

[@swnorcraft7971]

This was a thoroughly captivating treatise on one facet of backpacking gear. The fact that it was 47 minutes was barely noticed. Thanks for your scientific approach to the fuel efficiency dilemma. I recently purchased a larger diameter pot of the same volume, knowing it would be more efficient. Haven't tested it yet. The lower flame level was the best revelation of this whole film. Fuel savings with less noise. One needn't be in such a hurry while enjoying nature anyway. Thanks for sharing.

[@GearSkeptic]

You are welcome! Very glad if it can help.

[@cliffspicer6555]

My teenage son came into the room while I am watching your video and asks me condescendingly what the heck am I watching. The only response I could come up with that he could understand is “I am watching a video by my new hero”. I loved this test and your methodology given the instruments you have access to at a consumer level are flawless. I am pleasantly surprised by some of your findings and really enjoyed this video. If you are not familiar with a channel called Project Farm I think you will really relate to the type of testing he does for various items and I would pay money to see you two guys do your testing live. LOL. Thanks for the video.

[@GearSkeptic]

I recently found Project Farm! I've been watching some of their tool tests. Thanks very much!

[@ronmccarville256]

I could watch you control for variability all day long! Thanks for all your hard work. We appreciate your insights!!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks much! I appreciate that :)

[@Jc21112]

I usualy cold soak my meals, but I still watched every bit of your video because it is so satisfying. A big thank you for this!

[@tonyg25]

Me, watching this a week after walking for 2 days with 50kg in my pack after a hunt: Hmm, yes I'd hate to have to carry a few more grams due to inefficient heating 😂 Between you, project farm and the outdoor gear review its amazing the quality of reviews on KZbin now. Keep it up mate!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks! I’ve sometimes said take a 20lb pack without a pot lid in it in one hand and an identical pack but add a lid in the other. Bet you can’t tell which is which! It’s the principle that counts 😉

[@GmailNexus]

I watch the video, I'm amazed. Whenever an Idea pops in the back in my mind, you continue to mention and - that's even more awesome - measuring! it instead of speculating 😅 almost scary. Then I start thinking about Wind Effects, take a look at your Channel and see this has become an entire Series, covering everything from Wind effects, over Windscreens to Heat exchangers. THIS is why I still love KZbin! Hope you are doing well 👌🏼 Thank you so much

[@GearSkeptic]

Thank you for the kind words! I appreciate them very much.

[@outdoor-buddy]

Wow! I like your testing very much. Thanks a lot for the effort - I'm going now to check out the next video of this series.

[@jeremymanning2132]

So glad you made this video, thankyou. I've been camping for 54 years and through simple usage i have found different size and material of pots affects boil times and gas usage. I have argued against the usual practice on youtube etc of judging stoves by boil times and or gas usage. My reasoning being that in actual outdoor use boil times will depend on so many external factors, weather conditions, ambient temperatue, water temperature, and as you demonstrate pot size and material and gas pressure etc. Some of my gas stoves will take twice as long to boil in freezing winter conditions than in hot summer weather and accordingly use more gas. Great informative video. 👍👍

[@GearSkeptic]

I do have plans to also test different pot styles (like kettles) as well as materials like aluminum and stainless steel.

[@jeremymanning2132]

@@GearSkeptic Great look forward to seeing those. I'm new to your channel but finding it very interesting. 👍👍

[@geektarded]

I wish I could give this two thumbs up. I appreciate the thought you put into the test to eliminate as many variables as possible. Thank you!

[@hungliketictacs]

Such a great, well documented, and thorough approach. Really flexed my mind wrapping around the concept as a whole and you succinctly got the scientific method across with the summary at the end grounding it to earth. Thanks!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thank you! I am so glad if any of it can be useful.

[@NewHampshireJack]

Excellent video. For sure, this was aimed at long-distance hikers or military personnel where resupply may be a serious issue. I do not believe the casual camper that goes out a few times per year for only a day or two will worry much about these tests, they will simply use what they purchased and have fun. Our family trains to use much of our camping gear for emergency preparedness. We fall into that middle ground where this exhaustive testing could make a difference for us one day. We certainly appreciate all the effort expended to make this informative video. For those who may wonder about windscreens, a British channel, bex bugoutsurvivor, recently posted some tests he ran to end a dispute. Windscreens do make a tremendous difference when heating food or water over small backpacking stoves. Protecting your flame and the sides of the pot is important to efficiency.

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks! Part 2 will be on Wind Effects. That will be testing stoves of various designs to see which work best in moving air, but a part of that will also be wind screens and how much they help for how much weight. It will be interesting to see if an ultralight stove could be made more wind-efficient for less total weight by adding a thin windscreen, versus going with a heavier stove that has inherent protection built around the burner.

[@mandyrunonvegemite]

As a scientist, I really appreciate your methodology.

[@dustifyoumust2244]

This information is pure gold. Thank you so much for enabling me to make a significantly more informed choice for my forthcoming travels.

[@GearSkeptic]

You are very welcome! I am glad if it helps.

[@jimgielissen4507]

God these are good. Not sure if it's on your "to do" list, but would love to see how windscreens affect efficiency as well!

[@GearSkeptic]

Definitely! Working on fans and the mechanics of a wind setup. Already collecting windscreens and choosing stoves.

[@maetb]

@@GearSkeptic This is a great idea - I am also curious about using low flame in a breeze.

[@stevemandella2590]

Once again the best channel on KZbin shows why it's the best😍 I'd be interested to see how a contained "flameless"/windproof system like the MSR Windburner or the Jetboil stack up in a controlled and windy setting. Especially with the weight increases in their systems because of the added heat fins on the pots as well as the insulation materials. Great stuff as always!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks very much! Yah, I've got wind effects planned for Part 2, but that should lead perfectly into a Part 3 on heat exchanger systems like Jetboil and MSR Reactor/Windburner.

[@GeekfromYorkshire]

@@GearSkeptic I've had a Trangia 25 since 1987, then sold for Trangia 27 Duossal. I tried a Mini Trangia but it's useless in any kind of wind - can't get a boil, wind blows the flame away so weak it's cooling as fast as any heat gets to the pot. I've got a Jetboil Sol Ti from 2012 which solves many of the Trangia's 27 weight issues but removes food cooking versatility. For an overnight 1-2 night scenario vs a 5+ night scenario the alcohol vs gas and the wind losses seems to pivot both towards gas and then.... I simply don't know.

[@GearSkeptic]

Eventually, I’d like to add in alcohol stoves to the comparison.

[@GeekfromYorkshire]

@@GearSkeptic Excellent. The "no brainer" is at the extremes of a 1-nighter possibly 2-nighter, when the weight of alcohol fuel + small bottle + burner is substantially less than the weight of a nearly empty canister + burner. It's also a no-brainer at the opposite end of a long 5+day trip when beginning with a full canister weighs less than the alcohol+bottle. The tricky bit is the middle part between the extremes. Also alcohol stoves very much need a windbreak (tighter usually better) but can't do that so safely with gas canister when under the burner under the pot. Also we know gas is more efficient with a lower flame but in wind if too low it risks blowing out and there's going to be low-enough optimal flame where the flame is coming out at enough velocity to finish combustion whilst still under the pot. So in your high/medium/low flame tests there's going to be a point when low may become less efficient. Complex stuff.

[@Shrouded_reaper]

I wish toaks or someone would do a pot with heat exchanger fins. Always jealous seeing jetboil dudes boil so fast but the whole jetboil system is heavy af, just need the regular titanium pot with the fins in the bottom.

[@wildchild795]

I thought I was the only one. You might actually be more of a nerd than me!! Subscribed, liked, commented. Really appreciate the time, thought, money, and effort you put into this

[@GearSkeptic]

🤓

[@MWBFurlong]

Great respect for your comprehensive analysis. I've never used a burner before. We've just eaten food cold while travelling but thought we'd make a change and efficiency is one of the most important factors for me (along with cook-ability). I've gone with the omnilite ti (with silencer) for its ability to burn multiple fuels at high efficiency and quietly (All the efficiency studies are without the silencer how that'll affest it) while also having the ability to simmer. I then started considering efficiency of the pots. Of course a wider base would increase efficiency but so would a heat exchanger, but the latter at the cost of extra mass so better to just use a wider based pan without a heat exchanger (saving mass, volume, cost, as well as being better at acting as a frying pan). After having these thoughts I find your videos. I haven't actually bought the omnilite ti yet but I'd imagine it would have a similar burn diameter to the pocket rocket. However, with the silencer I don't know what effect it will have as it distributes heat more. Difficult to make an effective decision when I have no experience and none of the equipment is infront of me, but it does seem to be the case that a visual confirmation of the glow dissipating just before the edge of the pan matches the efficiency sweet-spot. Maybe I'll buy the burner and try it out on pans at home, get a rough visual guide of the glow diameter and then buy pans that are slightly wider than that without heat exchangers. Do you have any thoughts? Edit: As we are cooking for three, a larger volume pot of 1.5-2.5L is necessary and so likely to have a larger diameter than your largest pot . . . again making me think that the heat exchanger will be useless.

[@GearSkeptic]

I haven’t done testing on larger pots, but it is on my list! I am working on heat exchangers now. MSR makes the Reactor in a 1.7L version. By their numbers, it is the most fuel efficient stove made (with reported excellent wind resistance). I’ll be testing the 1L version in my next investigation.

[@MWBFurlong]

@eptic6355 I've sent an email to primus asking if they have documentation comparing the 2.3L pots with and without heat exchangers to justify the increased mass, volume, and expense. I linked this video pointing out the limited efficiency increases beyond 15cm and questioned whether when using a 20cm diameter pot the gas would retain enough thermal energy to justify a heat exchanger (compared to the sub15cm diameters which probably would).

[@romalacejenkins9332]

Thank you so much for all the time and energy spent bringing all of us adventurist much needed and deeply appreciated knowledge.

[@malfeasant_dino]

Very interesting stuff! Thank you so much for the time and effort that would have been involved with all of these tests. You're doing the community a massive favour! If your sanity can stand it (and I assume a paired down pot selection will help) then I'll be really interested to see the effect of breezy conditions in the wind tests

[@GearSkeptic]

Definitely! Wind effects will be Part 2. Already working on stove selection, and some windscreens.

[@jeffreycarman2185]

This video is amazing. You’ve done an extremely thorough investigation. My one quibble is that someone who is worried about saving 6 grams of weight, is probably not using a canister stove. A cat food (or similar) alcohol stove destroys any canister stove for weight savings, and you can, with much more ease, exactly tune the fuel to the exact number of times you need/want water to heat water. Not to mention, with an alcohol stove, you wouldn’t be lugging around the 100-216 grams of the empty metal canisters. While plastic bottles used for alcohol stoves are much lighter coming in more in the neighborhood of 30 grams. I’ve been totally tuned out of the ultra-light backpacking scene for about 9 years so DYI alcohol burners may be out of fashion of late, or may have even been banned in the drought-stricken wilderness areas of the west and mountain west.

[@haydenhoxworth9505]

I would love to see a video in the future about fabrics for hiking clothing. I love all your videos btw, so informative!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks! I do have some ideas regarding fabric testing. So many projects!

[@GeekfromYorkshire]

You mean wool vs polyester vs.... ? I did that analysis like 15 years ago and by trial''n'error ended up with Merino wool. In winter it lasts 5 days til pong, in summer typically 4 days til pong but in summer if you wash them and leave them drapped over backpack to dry in the sun the UV from sun sterilises them better than any washing machine. In summer if raining I simply let myself get wet "free cleaning" and in winter I'd have a UK specific waterproof called Paramo. Legs summer are bare or a windproof if walking through vegetation which may sting me, winter I'll be in a polycotton as nothing else is durable.

[@millsmarkchris]

I could watch your videos all day. In fact, I have!

[@cgmiller82]

I've never watched such an in depth study to save literal grams of weight. This video was an extreme study in weight savings and all but the completely insane hiker would benefit from it. Having said that, it was entertaining and fun to watch. As much as I feel it is a waste of time to watch a 47 minute video to save a handful of grams, it has actually affected what I intend to carry on my next trip. Good job sir!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks! Can’t say I disagree with you 🤓

[@Ra-zor]

One of the best tests I have seen on You Tube for anything, well done!

[@GearSkeptic]

Much appreciated!

[@drukawski]

It's slightly more technical than "a lid decreases time to boil". It's more like "a lid with headspace under it creates an insulative layer reducing evaporative heat loss; instead steam condenses and drips back to the water. Also, a tight fitting lid creates vapor pressure increasing the boiling point of the combined water/steam, that allows you to transfer heat faster to the water." 50%-33% headspace works for homebrew and distillation. I've always wondered how much more efficient of a heat transfer you could get if you had tons of radiator fins projecting out from the wall/bottom of the pot in the flame path. Cool video!

[@typo4000]

I'm seriously impressed. A really first class study and analysis. In broad terms, perhaps no surprises, but I love real evidence. Excellent stuff.

[@GearSkeptic]

Much appreciated!

[@mikemorgan5015]

God, I love science. It's refreshing to see non-truncated graphs zoomed in on the last decimal to skew reality. Nice work!

[@JochenSteglich]

This video is really well done! It's fantastic how much you go into detail here and really include every conceivable parameter. In this way, you dispel many a "supposed truth". I have never seen anything like it anywhere!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks! I hope it helps.

[@bambangsuroyo7419]

I am always wondering about the effiency of the gas stove (small, medium, wide) and your video provide clear answer to these questions. Thank you.

[@somedavehikes]

OH YEAH, MORE SKEPTIC!! I haven't even watched it yet and I love the anticipating feeling of growing more knowledge!!

[@Chimchimchiree]

This is incredible work. I love and greatly appreciate the care taken to ensure bias and error are as reduced as possible. I've been using a medium flame for years with my old snow peaks stove. Time to switch to low flame! You're incredible, thanks again.

[@Mitigator123]

But only if wind conditions allow it!

[@chan4est]

Thank you again for a spectacular analysis!! Feels good knowing that I was already using one of the most efficient setups! No extra gear I need to buy!

[@GearSkeptic]

Perfect! ;)

[@ANONM60D]

Thank you for this video debunking the addage "a watched pot never boils"

[@GearSkeptic]

An important contribution to humanity.

[@Jacob-ly8vs]

Not only are you one of the most thorough and articulate presenters in this space, you were also right about your use of "hot mess!" You also added a pun, effectively mastering the phrase. Also I love your dedication to the scientific method, though I'd love to see a few more tests doubled to really solidify that margin of error. Thanks for your hard work!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks much! And, I hear you. I’d love to have enough tests to report averages with error bars. Maybe when I get a couple of lab assistants 🤓

[@MrGuyCali]

The overall efficiency of the MSR on low with this setup is 52%. 5.84g (average boil consumption) of isopro has a combustion energy of .288mj whereas the water underwent .149mj actual heating. Should compare it to jetboils and windscreens.

[@Mitigator123]

I greatly appreciate the level of thought and thoroughness that was put into this test, but also the sheer amount of work of going through that procedure 72 times! Also one other thing to note on weight efficiency - on trips that are shorter than 18 full boils - it may actually be more weight efficient to put to the stove on high flame, since you will be carrying less fuel back home in the end, i.e. less weight on the back. Looking forward to a next installment about container materials and wind influence!

[@PeenPuncher]

I cant watch it right now cause im at work, but i will later. I promise. Also, thank you for all you hard work, analysis, and elegance. I have learned quite a bit from you sir.

[@bethloomis8961]

And ditto JH's last sentence. What I wanted to say, but said better than I could.

[@VapourTrailz]

Once again, thank you very much for the thoroughly in depth video. We appreciate it. Also excellent job on the correct pronunciation for aluminium.

[@flightofthebirds]

This is the nerdiest video on camp cooksets and I’m here for it!

[@motoxerdad]

Brilliant proper engineering experiment for us UL backpackers .... You must be the guy behind Rockwells Turbo Encabulator version 1 and 2 research efforts ! Genius work that will live in infamy.

[@mattclark1429]

Thank you very much for taking the time, effort , energy, and having an immense amount of patience to boil so many pots of water. This was an excellent video.

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks much!

[@ryan92084]

Instant subscribe after watching the thoroughness of this set of testing. Time to go watch some of your others.

[@thorlocks7818]

I thought I was weird for asking this question, only to find out many others have had the same question; Thank you so very much for going through all of the steps necessary to give us an accurate answer as possible!

[@GearSkeptic]

The beauty of the internet! I thought it was only me, as well 🤓

[@tomlovesdiy]

Very well done. The fast boil time trend is kind of silly. We are camped and don't have any place to go. I had similar results while testing my DIY alcohol burners. The most important factor I found related to efficiency, was a moderate falme that did not spill over the bottom of the pan and reach up the sides. I was able to (eventually on my bench) boil 4 cups of 65F water burning 1 oz of denatured alcohol. That is about 50% net efficiency - BTUs transferred to the water. Boil time was about 6 minutes for two cups and 11.5 minutes for 4 cups. Of course, the conditions were ideal; e.g. no wind. If you are curious, I've documented build and test on my channel. Thanks for a great series! TomLovesDIY

[@Aleksandr-The-Bright-Guy]

Oh man, you're lighting up a spark in my engineering endeavors; seeing all those tubes/measurement devices in a residential setting makes me more interested

[@jshepard152]

I'm only two minutes into the video, but that spreadsheet is a work of art. Liked and subscribed.

[@alexreustle]

Thank you once again for doing our hobby a valuable service.

[@GearSkeptic]

You are most welcome! I hope it helps.

[@GearSkeptic]

I've added a link to download the spreadsheet with all the raw data and graphs from this video: www.mediafire.com/file/3jotr4yaq1y4kbd/Pot_Burner_Efficiency_1.xlsx/file

[@SamwiseOutdoors]

Okay, this is the kind of fiddly, detail-oriented analysis that lights my fire! Pun unintended.

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks! And, never say "no" to a good pun.

[@cmcmillan7987]

This was amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to thoroughly investigate and explaining your results. 👍

[@GearSkeptic]

You are most welcome! I hope it can be helpful.

[@hikerJohn]

Love to see Stanco Gs1200 Aluminum Grease pot included in the next one since it's a classic pot that many hikers have been using for years.

[@GearSkeptic]

I'd like to do a Large Pots test, eventually. To see if larger burners come into their own with wide containers of higher volume. I found your Stanco pot on Amazon and will pick one up!

[@SupermanJimbo]

Thanks for this. As you hint in the summary, I have a strong suspicion that at a lower ambient temp the efficiency increase of the lid will increase significantly and that BRS stove in any wind will not come close to the Pocket Rocket.

[@GearSkeptic]

Agreed. Wind effects is planned next. It's already getting warmer. I would also like to see how colder temps effect the recommendations, but I may have to wait until November for that.

[@eric55406]

Great video and thanks for putting this together. It seems obvious that increased surface area on the bottom of the pot increases the heat transfer. I bought an aluminum pot (OLICAMP Hard Anodized XTS Pot, 1-Litre) with a heat exchanger on the bottom (cheap version of a jetboil pot or MSR windburner pot). Same principles apply where the increase in pot surface area also increased the fuel efficiency of the system, and allows capturing more heat (faster boil at high flames). Cost is the increased weight; it weighs triple the weight of my simple titanium pot.

[@tomalbert3299]

OMG! - I'd love to give two thumbs up. These surprising and thorough tests where just what I was looking for. Ah, there is one thing I forgot to mention. You need to bring a lighter with the BRS as opposed to the Windmaster (or any other with igniter). That does shrink the weight advantage - not to mention the reliability which of course is just a side note.

[@ace_fox2988]

you got yourself another subscriber, the level of detail and precision is very appreciated and i learned a ton from this video.

[@GearSkeptic]

Awesome! I am glad if any of it helps

[@dudeymcduderson]

I've never seen any of your videos before. For the dedication to precision you deserve a follow. Very good video.

[@TheMangeGrain]

Thanks a lot. First : I really enjoyed watching this video ; hiking gear meets test protocols, what a treat ! Second : you gave me figures to confront my ancient Campingaz Globe Trotter to. As a hiker I was never really concerned about weight : I'm the family sherpa. But gear volume, and fuel efficiency, are more important. So, thanks to your protocol, it turns out that my good old stove is as efficient as current ones : to boil 415 ml of tap water it burns 6g of gas during 9 minutes at low setting and 8g /5 minutes at high setting. With a C206 canister (190g of gas) that would be from 23 to 31 boils, so 5 to 7 days of gas autonomy. Not that bad and good enough to give it shifts in my stove rotations.

[@florisvanloo9438]

This is really amazing. I must admit I skipped back and forth, to get the quick results. Kudos for all the efforts you put in!

[@willek1335]

Thanks for busting the lid myth for small pots. That gray shirt guy lived rent free in my head too.

[@GearSkeptic]

We'll see. Lids may make a comeback during wind testing in Part 2!

[@wanttogo1958]

@@GearSkeptic lids are important when bugs are out, especially mosquitoes, and as you note, when the convective heat loss is elevated due to wind. Very cold morning temps in the higher elevations year round are a good reason to add a lid to the kit. Of course it also serves to keep everything in one place if you fasten it down or put it in one of those nifty orange mesh bags Toaks provides. 😊 Of course they add weight too but…you have to consider utility which those bent on shaving grams sometimes overlook in my opinion. It’s subjective, of course, so ‘different strokes for different folks’ applies.

[@GearSkeptic]

@@wanttogo1958 Agreed! I will continue to bring a lid for most of those reasons.

[@eddydewilde4958]

This is so genius that even the man in the gray T shirt can't shoot holes in! Love the humor. So much deep thinking , Gear Skeptic I wonder if this kept you from sleep? Brilliant testing. Who else could look at so many aspects?

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks so much! And, what it keeps me from doing is my chores around the house. :)

[@kevindcornwell]

A decidedly fascinating consideration of vessels and stoves. I am a camp chef, and consistent food preparation trumps all other considerations. That's my priority and requisite compromises. When solo camping, I use the Glacier stove in order to achieve better heat distribution from the wider footprint of the flame, and I use the MSR stainless steel skillet. While both sit squarely in the heavyweight category, my pancakes and omelettes are flawless. Thank you for your superb and excellent experimental work. I greatly appreciate the thoroughness of your videos.

[@GearSkeptic]

One of the projects I have on a back burner 🥸 is to test different styles of heat diffusers, specifically for the camp chef. My goal is to try and find a diffuser/pan combination that is lighter than carrying the thicker, heavier vessel.

[@alan772]

Just excellent. Thank you for the time and effort to make these videos. I’m looking forward to the tests of wind effects, and measures to mitigate them.

[@GearSkeptic]

It will be Part 2, already in the planning stages!

[@ml-dz9ww]

Totally a fan of your in depth analysis! That said, something about your hands and the way you move them, make me think it's the Swedish Chef going deep on hike tech.

[@GearSkeptic]

What if I said, “You poot de turkey in de pot” ?

[@ml-dz9ww]

@@GearSkeptic although I think that's a bit more Julia Childs.

[@EzeAdventurer]

You are such a legend for doing this!!!! The commitment to accuracy, 54 tests... WOWWWW. Thank you!!!! I always felt intuitively lower flames would equal higher fuel efficiency, but to see it so clearly proven is awesome. Even despite surface area. Amazing.

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks very much! Always glad if it can help.

[@bmwohl]

This was one of the most delightful backpacking videos I've seen. Now for the search for zero wt lids: old dinner bags or maps or phone covers or hats. Maybe flatish rocks.

[@GearSkeptic]

Zero-weight lids are available in unobtanium, currently on indefinite pre-order.

[@GeekfromYorkshire]

FYI my Jetboil lid fits well my basic 600ml pot. Odd my Titanium lid is heavier than the plastic. I knew intuitively a lid helps - particularly towards end of a boil process as evaporation heat loss increases - and helps with a wider pot more than a narrow one, just with this video it proves is admirably.

[@oxxnarrdflame8865]

That was awesome. Answered many questions I had on stove/pot size. Looking forward to the other videos.

[@shermer75]

Really interesting stuff, answering all the questions that bug you when waiting for your water to boil! I thought the lid test was the most interesting, I might save a few grams and leave that at home!

[@teslajourneys]

The best I’ve seen anywhere. Thank you for sharing your talent and taking the time to do this.

[@GearSkeptic]

Thank you! I do appreciate it.

[@jhosk]

This has been on my mind lately, happy i found this

[@joeszeto310]

OMG... those were some of the best 47 minutes and 38 seconds I'd ever spent on here. Geeky.. yup. Nerdy.. hell yea! But man I most definitely appreciated the time and effort you put into this video. So I do sincerely applaud you, my good sir, for your geeky, thorough and scientific mind and your willingness to take those extra stepsssssss to get this done right!!! Bravo!! And yes... I just hit that Subscribe button!!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thank you so much! Always great to connect with a fellow traveler, so to speak.

[@Jeff13mer]

The amount of detail and break down is exactly why I subscribed. You're not a dummy, and the type of break down you did was amazing.

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks much and welcome aboard! ;)

[@Wayaha13]

Something I learned the hard way with the BRS stove is too wide of a pot is really unstable. Lost 1.5 L on a beach backpacking trip with no water when the wind blew it off and got to enjoy hiking 8 miles out the last morning on a half liter. These pots are smaller but still worth considering stability, because having to re-boil a spilled pot weighs a lot and wastes a lot of fuel and water if you're dry camping. Just another thing to keep in mind, thanks for all the data!

[@ganjalogic]

This is incredible! I've been looking for exactly these kinds of tests and finding other KZbinrs who put like half as much effort into them, and here you are being absolutely exhaustive in covering all of the variables. Thanks so much for your efforts!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks! It is worth it if it helps 👍🏼

[@delgray8818]

Thanks for this work and data. The weight analysis in real world backpacking ends up being more complicated than any general conclusion can summarize and it's important that we use this data carefully in our individual use scenarios (as the creator clearly says). For a typical user that starts out with a full canister of gas and doesn't use it all on a trip, a more efficient stove-pot system usually actually means carrying MORE weight since less gas burned means more gas carried! The more efficient gas burning system only ends up being a weight advantage if it means you can carry less gas overall on your trip (e.g. one canister vs. two, or a small canister vs. a large one). If, though, you go out (lets say) for a typical 5 days of backpacking and use one small canister for 10 boils that last the whole trip, a more efficient system leaves you with more gas unburned in the canister that you have to carry every day. If we use an extreme example from the study, a system that burns 6 grams per boil would burn 60 grams of fuel after 10 boils, leaving 50 grams in the canister at the end, while a system that burns 9 grams per boil would burn 90 grams leaving 20 grams in the canister at the end. That 30 gram difference should be factored into the weight calculations if this is your typical use. One way we could actualize some weight savings by a more efficient system would be if you are careful to start with a canister that is not full but only has the exact amount of fuel needed for the trip, but that's a bit of a dangerous game and not something many people do in real life, especially since it requires the tricky business of refilling canisters. Even in a thru hike scenario, resupply stops are fixed points on the trail, meaning you cannot simply get another canister exactly when you run out. This means that there is an inefficiency again when you carry more fuel than you needed because you had to buy another canister in town when you had, e.g., 5 boils left. Occasionally the threshold idea you presented means a huge weight savings (a small canister makes it to the resupply rather than a large one needed for a less efficient system), but over a long thru hike these factors cannot be counted on consistently.

[@GearSkeptic]

All good points! For me, personally, I see it as a planning tool for a longer trip without resupply. If I can make reasonably sure to get by on just one can, instead of needing to bring two, then that's a win. That sounds more like a Fuel Efficiency Priority than a weight one. The heaviest (most efficient pan) is still lighter than that second can that will only be partially consumed, as you say.

[@GeekfromYorkshire]

@@GearSkeptic A full 100g canister weighs 206g (on my scales, Primus) , vs a 230g weighs 370g. So an empty 100g is 106g, an empty 230g is 140g. To carry 2 100g, so 200g total fuel is 412g vs a 230g fuel is 370g. So the pivot is if you can make a 100g canister last the situation.

[@GeekfromYorkshire]

I have 3 100g canister and 1 230g and I buy 450g canisters. I refill the 100g from the 450g to keep costs down and so can decide how much canister fuel I carry. I've already proved to myself a Jetboil wins on the 7-day scenario (full 100g, average conditions) but it's the 3-5 day scenario is less clear. Alcohol wins the 1-2 day handsdown due to difficult to get alcohol fuel+bottle+burner weight as heavy as a near-empty canister + burner. So your point of you carry more weight on average with a more efficient stove setup is not true when you choose how full the canister you carry is. e.g. suppose one setup averaged 5g/use and another 10g/use so for a scenario of 10 uses the first setup you'd leave with a little over 50g fuel and the second setup you'd leave with 100g fuel. I have a canister currently weighing approx 26g fuel remaining and if I use with my Toaks+Kraku setup would do about 3 more boils so if I needed more I'd refill it to required level. Plenty of videos how to refill and the gadget pays for itself after a few refills as the bigger canisters are better value.

[@bafumat]

It's funny but I already knew this was the outcome from my own cooking results. I use my stoves everyday because I hate eating crap food at work. Great video. I loved your methodology.

[@Pali65]

Wow! Level: LEGEND. I am looking forward to a chapter which will reveal the efficiency under wind.

[@Mark-gl2fz]

You do great work, your spreadsheet is the single best piece of information that I have ever received from KZbin!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks! That is very appreciated.

[@sheona7693]

Thank you for answering a lot of the questions I have had about pot size versus flame size when I use my BRS 3000 stove. Excellent video.

[@GearSkeptic]

You are most welcome!

[@wr1120]

Your channel is vastly underrated. Thanks for sharing the outstanding research with us!

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks very much, and you are most welcome!

[@kniter]

This is an amazing video, both as an avid hiker but also as an enjoyer of scienctific method. 🤟

[@GearSkeptic]

Thanks much!