Bad Balance: SF4 Vanilla Vega

[@spoofy8885]

3:58 >low jab, which is unplinkable unless you plink with the select button What?

[@Bumble-BTuna]

That's how Elena ran rampant with overhead combos if I remember correctly.

[@Kara-de5cz]

I don't know if Capcom modified this in the next versions But from whatvI experienced in USF4, basically linking two crouching jabs was a frame perfect

[@spoofy8885]

BumbleBTuna how the hell do you plink with the select button?

[@lia6771]

@@spoofy8885 basically, the Xbox ver. select button (which does nothing) is, under the hood, the lowest priority button, so you can use it to plink everything. you just plink with it as if it was any other button, with the only downside being the hassle of having to bind it

[@ensanesane]

Ibuki had that problem too in her best combos. iirc it works by hitting a higher priority button along with a lower priority button so that you get a 2 inputs of the higher one and 1 input of the lower one. Which makes the 1 frame link effectively a 2 frame link. But since light punch is the lowest priority button, if the combo required a light punch 1 frame link, you couldn't plink at all unless you used the select button to plink with it. For some reason the select button is treated as lower priority than light punch.

[@KINOSWAGMONEY]

someone at capcom got their shit rocked by sf2 claw and said "you know what"

[@josiahvfx]

LMFAOOO “you know what..”

[@RichterBelmont2235]

This actually happened to Zangief when the dev witness a gief player bodied everyone at the location test during SFII era and make it their life mission to never let any gief-type character be anywhere near decent.

[@SMEARGLEX75]

@@RichterBelmont2235 Does that explain why Grapplers are Bottom Tier?

[@RichterBelmont2235]

@@SMEARGLEX75 Yes.

[@Lukmendes]

@@RichterBelmont2235 If that's true, I wonder what kind of horrors the dev witnessed to have such a mentality lol.

[@damontejohnson2469]

The stock flame effect on the full ultra meter is so hilariously distracting lol

[@Bafael]

Yeah I never noticed it in SF4 era but to my eyes now it's REALLY obvious

[@saviorofseals5111]

Fuck, I didn't notice that until right now

[@ramiabdalla2661]

i didn’t notice it was there and now i can’t unsee it

[@cronasan6931]

Thx I hate it lol

[@maximilianor9]

@@ramiabdalla2661 came to say the same shit, now the only shit i see are the flames hahah

[@doutsida6715]

Basically claw only struggles in two specific situations: when your opponent is attacking him or when he is not.

[@ShinStriderHiryu]

Basically existing

[@lOneWingAngell]

Seems like he's in a good spot then! :p

[@bootlegspinjutsu9966]

Basically playing the game

[@chachawho435]

"but baf that seems like a really good anti air" sf5 vega in a nutshell

[@Bafael]

SFV claw's cr HP sucks but it's still a better anti air than even USF4 claw's anti airs lol.

[@chachawho435]

@@Bafael pour one out for the boys

[@TheNyion912]

@@Bafael you're full of shit. He was mid tier

[@Bafael]

@@TheNyion912 You can be a mid tier with shitty anti airs.

[@TheNyion912]

@@Bafael no sir. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@whs1pmjazz]

Somebody had it out for this character at the start

[@theSHELFables]

In Bad Character Jail for ST crimes

[@whs1pmjazz]

@@theSHELFables fair

[@Pyroniusburn]

@@theSHELFables Not an expert but wasn't he really good in A3 too?

[@Method2k5]

Iirc they said Vega was extremely good in the alpha of the game so they just ripped him apart

[@Method2k5]

Nah he jumped up quite a bit in the first part of super. After that his position really depended on who you ask

[@AaronRotenberg]

The sound design on the super at 13:16 cracks me up. *thump. thump. thump.*

[@MrMeat-jv1hx]

The laugh too

[@doompigg7403]

The overhead that didnt hit overhead had me and my fgc crew dying laughing when this game came out. Literal incomplete moveset.

[@bartdude82]

He had the same move in Alpha 3 and it wasn’t an overhead there either so I’m wondering if that’s where they got the idea from

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

@@bartdude82 maybe

[@nebiyuesayas5600]

@@bartdude82 Vega was actually pretty good in Alpha 3, so I can sort of get that, plus I don't think everyone had/has an overhead (most do, though)

[@joztron]

@@bartdude82 maybe but it did not even combo on counter hit. Yeah it was airborne but so was cosmic heel. What was the point?

[@Neogears1312]

chunners has the same thing in 3s. in fact it missed on crouch despite being an overhead move.

[@alex2d]

Lucky for me, I was so bad back in Vanilla that I don't think I even realized how bad Vega was

[@larquefausse3623]

Same. I just remembered that I liked him in SF2 so I just picked him stuck with it.

[@nicolaskitsune08]

As a SFV Vega main I thought that season 3/3.5 was the absolute rock bottom for the character. Thanks for proving me wrong lol

[@SkyHighClaw]

Early in sf5's life every Vega that complained about em had vietnam flashbacks of vanilla sf4 vega and thoroughly let em know

[@SkyHighClaw]

Oh man so many things where left out. But my personal favorite was The DP shortcut. Since getting rid of the claw was a DP motion, the DP shortcut would randomly make you chuck his claw off. If anyone fought a Vanilla Vega and see them toss the claw only to immediately pick it back up, thats why. In Super hes one of the few, if not only charecter to not have the DP shortcut motion.

[@fernandobanda5734]

Can you elaborate?

[@AlphaTheMan]

@Fernando Banda SF4 introduced a number of input shortcuts to make doing things like the shoryuken motion easier. The shoryuken motion is forward, down, down-forward, but you can get shoryuken moves out just by hitting down-forward twice, or, say, going from down-forward, to down, to down-forward. The only move Vega has with a shoryuken motion is the one where he tosses his claw away, which is almost unilaterally a bad idea. Apparently it's one of the only moves they adjusted to no longer have the simpler shoryuken input so it would be harder to perform accidentally.

[@fernandobanda5734]

@@AlphaTheMan Thanks

[@zeldalink78]

can we expect more vids like this or another vanilla sagat vid? I absolutely love showcases of questionable design in old-ish fighting games and I can't think of anybody other than you or TMM that makes those kinds of videos

[@Demonstormlord]

PND Ketchup and Mustard do this exact type of thing, but with Netherrealm games.

[@kevinoliveras4951]

@@Demonstormlord MK_REO also does this with NRS games and iirc was the start of the trend

[@mostverticalproductions4808]

I want one for SNK and ArcSys games. I want to see why Duo Lon was considered bottom in 13.

[@nonsequiter5411]

@@mostverticalproductions4808 Who gave you that weird news? Duolon is an incredibly potent point with lots of positives like good jabs all around, nice tricky movement, decent meterless damage, and a lot of meter gain. Sure, he kinda sucked as a meter user but considering the general lack of dedicated point characters in 13 he's not at all bad at his niche

[@LightningCayo]

Other channels do stuff like this too, even smaller channels for Arcsys games and such.

[@dot_exe5557]

Really interesting and cool video! I would actually like more of these kind of video's where you talk about a character in Street Fighter in a specific version of the game. I personally think that it is really interesting to hear/know why a character was good or bad in a specific version of a game. My next suggestion for a video like this, that I would be really interested in, would be to hear "Why was E.Honda so good in Super Street Fighter IV"? I always hear that Honda was really good in Super, but I never hear or knew why? That would be pretty interesting to know.

[@whs1pmjazz]

Shh don't let Mike Ross hear you

[@DEClimax]

i think that would be very cool!

[@DiscoCokkroach]

Honda was busted in Super because the chip damage on his Jab Headbutt was more than if it actually hit you.

[@Bafael]

@@DiscoCokkroach Don't forget having a true 720. Honda basically just did way too much damage for free. Opponent jumps in, you do jab headbutt into super, instant 50% damage. Also all his bad matchups from vanilla got nerfed.

[@TheFightingGentleman]

I was literally thinking about all this shit last night and now this...thank you bafael...i've been a vega main since sf2: ce/cvs1 and many of design aspects of battle were very strange in sf4 with vega being no exception...as indicated in this video among other things, the struggle was real with this character

[@Shodan130]

vega was bad in vanilla but by the time ultra launched he was a pretty damn solid character. not top tier but far from being bad.

[@keepingitrealgoesright1308]

@@Shodan130 Justin Wong had a pretty accurate tier list in my opinion. He had Vega bottom 3 with Dan and DJ. DJ was actually decent with a fireball and invincible reversal and Dan had Koryuken with a bad fireball but was still better than Vega

[@Shodan130]

@@keepingitrealgoesright1308 justin also played rufus, not to discredit his tier list but it's no wonder he has vega as bad when his character beats vega 7-3. vega however also beat alot of other characters like shoto's, grapplers, alot of the top tiers like evil ryu and gief had losing MU's against vega. and in ultra vega's tool kit was refined enough that he never had any proper big struggles outside of the no reversals against dive kick characters. vega was far from solo mainable but not bad or bottom tier by anymeans.

[@TheFightingGentleman]

@@Shodan130 it's debatable if he was best in ssf4 or usf4's final patch but yea...he had the most improvements across the board in the former and it clearly showed...hopefully in sf5 we'll get something akin to his ultra 2...

[@MansMan42069]

The only reason I put up with it is because of how cool Vega is.

[@jmarx3943]

I mained vega throughout sf4's life. I'm glad he got significantly better, but it was satisfying getting wins with him in vanilla. Landing an ultra was a pain, but I usually just tried to bait fireballs max distance with a backflip into ultra. You'd be surprised how often it worked.

[@Aregulargameplayer]

Honestly, I'd be down if you were to make a series looking at questionable fighting game character decisions.

[@ShadyHitchhiker]

As a Deejay main, it's weird to hear that there was once a worse character in SF4 Of course this was only during a time where Deejay didn't exist yet

[@Toomnyusernae]

Hey. Dee Jay isn't bad at all ;p Just lots of work.

[@keepingitrealgoesright1308]

Justin Wong had him bottom 3 actually w Vega but I still have him as better

[@Toomnyusernae]

@@keepingitrealgoesright1308 When I fought Dee Jays it's like fighting an upgraded Guile. Meter gain on strings was pretty good as I recall.

[@Tary88]

@@Toomnyusernae Except its a downgraded Guile.

[@Toomnyusernae]

@@Tary88 I guess I'll never know until I main them both to tell the differences.

[@Nazzers]

So he had no anti-airs, no invincible super, and couldn't convert his claw attacks in neutral into special moves. Sounds like SF5 Vega to me.

[@Sophishi]

He's not that bad, come on

[@PSMii]

Thank you so much for this. Vega is still the only character in SFV without an invincible reversal because his super isn't even invincible and his V-reversals are garbage in most situations, yet people try to say he's not bad... He's way better than this, but he still struggles a lot because if how unique his kit is.

[@Sorrelhas]

Never understood the mask and claw thing Punish a character that is already losing by making him worse I understand losing the mask, but purely as a cosmetic thing, with the whole beauty angle the character has

[@lunarrosecrow407]

3:10 _his LP Shoryuken is -21_ *Vega proceeds to miss the mark entirely* it was at this moment I did the Jonah Jameson laugh asked if you're serious and didn't even watch the rest just peace out

[@ZombieRommel]

Great video man! I forgot how bad Vega was in vanilla SF4. He's always been my favorite character and I remember STRUGGLING online, especially against Blanka and Gief. I really hope he makes it back to SF6 with a glowup. That would be godlike.

[@BreakMan333]

I think Capcom was scared of creating a new ST or CVS2 Vega again by accident

[@H2A_23]

As a diehard SF4 vega main I appreciate this

[@ShinStriderHiryu]

Chad

[@devinand1fosho]

Same, those arcade days were rough before super, but still one of the best times.

[@keeshuunedited5678]

I haven't played street fighter much, but a few things mentioned in this video happened to me when I was playing trying to get into Street Fighter again. I just assumed it was either bugs, or assumed it was "The character is supposed to be tricky to play... So not being able to hit this must be part of game balance right?". Nice to know that it was something actually up with the character. Especially since I was trying out other character's combos and such and had a massively easier time trying to play them, even though Vega was the only one I wanted to main at the time. I don't think I had the mindset for a fighting game at the time, but that sure didn't help at all when the character you are worst at is the one you want to play the most and put the most time into.

[@rmnhn]

Btw, this was definitely a fascinating watch. Hopefully we can see more in-depth character dissections like this that explain what makes them truly good or truly bad. One particular character I'm curious about is Ultra Dee Jay. Outside of maybe a short video on this channel and a reddit post or two, I've never seen a full demonstration on why he's universally regarded worse than Dan.

[@sharkdude7]

As a Vega main this was hurtful and thank god he’s mid tier in Ultra and Omega

[@SpitefulAZ]

What cool moves can he do in omega?

[@sharkdude7]

@@SpitefulAZ pretty sure this guy did a video on Omega Vega but he gets a 2-meter EX Roll, extra hit after EX Scarlet Terror, down kick after Barcelona, normals without claw connect more and better normals in general. Only negatives are pushback when claw is on, a new motion for Sky High Claw which is ehh, not terrible but not fantastic(EX Sky High is the same tho), and it’s really hard to do EX Izuna Drop after you hit the character up, like really hard. From the ground it’s ok tho.

[@fabianoyaga8610]

@@SpitefulAZ EX Roll gets a follow up and has projectile invincibility.

[@SpitefulAZ]

@@fabianoyaga8610 sweet!

[@Pyrobaconstudios]

This was legit part of what killed my interest in SFIV back in the day. They freaking massacred my boi

[@ThierryRocksTV]

SFIV Vanilla was the game that introduced me to the series, so it's very nostalgic to me.

[@Stroggoii]

Claw saved Boxer from the dumpster but forgot to get out himself. He still hasn't found his way out.

[@astolfostrikesback4073]

was boxer good in sf4's lifespan? i main him in ST and i know he's top tier but idk his legacy in games like sf4 or cvs2.

[@Stroggoii]

@@astolfostrikesback4073 He was high until Ultra then he went mid but was still very good.

[@astolfostrikesback4073]

@@Stroggoii oh that's nice

[@kingkrispy5289]

Vega making 3rd strike Sean look good 💀

[@nebiyuesayas5600]

Yep, plus Sean becomes more viable if you don't know the matchup (a noob won't know to mash throw on meterless tornado, but even a baby could do a random normal to punish a whiffed EX flying barcelona)

[@Toomnyusernae]

The most fun I had with Vega was neutral throw into crossup U1. Otherwise it was his 4 hit slash super. I appreciated this video. You get a glimpse of both design and strategy behind a character.

[@fingerling54]

SFV vega main here to watch the old glorious time when Vega has scarlet terror as anti-air.... Wait... what?

[@Micha-Hil]

12:15 >spends 2 bars to take off a fucking mask vega REALLY wants to be beautiful, huh?

[@ShinStriderHiryu]

just to show off

[@greenswamponion7330]

Man watching this makes me miss playing USF4. That game was so much fun. Vega was one of my side mains

[@PaddyRoon7]

Suggestion: I think you should have grouped all of the AE/Ultra stuff together and gave them their own section. When you're talking about how a move only has certain combo options but clarify that there are more in later versions, it can be tough to keep it straight in my head what was true in which version. I feel like I explained that poorly but hope you get the gist. Love the series mate.

[@alessandroconstantini5941]

Damn man this brought me life. Vanilla vega main here, he was garbage. Never thought is see someone bring it to light.

[@msdrakegx]

sf4 was my first fighting game ever and I mained Vega. It's a miracle I didn't drop the game

[@Method2k5]

I also chose to main vanilla Vega over Cammy. I think I had a brain disease.

[@SaiKisaragi]

Sorry for your losses.

[@Method2k5]

🙏 I took my revenge with Kara throws and gimmicks

[@ev5837]

YEOWWW

[@LieseFury]

someone at capcom: "what if we punished players for doing combos by making their moves suck ass in combos?" and links were born

[@AgentSephiroth]

It's like people dont even know what links are and that they arent exclusive to what SF4's emphasizes. Any combo(in any fighting game) that doesnt involve cancelling animations is a link. Normals, Specials, Supers, Ultra, etc, etc, etc.

[@boxheadfred3475]

@@AgentSephiroth but normals into specials or super do cancel normals animation no?

[@meathir4921]

@@boxheadfred3475 Depends. Most of the time a cancel is used to cancel into a special move or super. However, links are even seen in games where cancels are the name of the game. Stuff like doing a super on a slide out knockdown in DBFZ is still a link (just an incredibly easy one).

[@jaykelley103]

Scrubquote energy

[@bageltoo]

Links seem like one of those things people either love or violently hate

[@MitoNova583]

I keep coming back to this just to see "But Baf, that looks it might be a really good anti-air!" followed by Vega cr.HP losing or trading to multiple jump-ins

[@ShinStriderHiryu]

the bit '' but baf '' should be a series on its own

[@denshitenshi]

I love these bad balance videos.

[@Rio..o7..]

"You don't want your only answer to fireballs be the universal answer of jumping" ken sfV

[@rmnhn]

When you said you were planning on covering Vanilla Sagat, Akuma and Seth, I was excited about the former and highly curious about the latter two.

[@Apemopo]

6:04 vega gets gombo on sagat, sagat bottom tier confirmed

[@zhaf]

Yeah I remember. Coming from CvS2, I were super excited to try out Vega when vanilla launched. Played for a few days and dropped him for Viper.

[@pscwplb]

Remember when Capcom put Vega in SFV and them removed him from the game for the next 3 years?

[@dogg-paws]

What?

[@pscwplb]

@@dogg-paws guess how I know you're not a Vega main.

[@watersheep5535]

I barely played sfv so may I ask, what do you mean.

[@pscwplb]

@@watersheep5535 There was a period from season 2 until CE where Vega mains more or less abandoned the character because he was bottom 3 in the tier list. Season after season, Capcom kept pushing nerfs on him even though he was by the end of season 1.5 already a fairly limited character with an incomplete toolset. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqexkIuhftOenJo He was a joke of a character and the joke was on everyone still playing him during that time frame.

[@watersheep5535]

@@pscwplb That's just wrong. No wonder I immediately stopped playing vega when I started the game. Why would they nerf a already trash character. Thats like nerfing sf4 Dan.

[@keatong8400]

In vanilla, one of his best tools was focus attack - it was his best answer to fireball since u can’t throw normal fireballs at him at the longer than normal range where his claw hits u. He could stun and combo from that counter, plus it also built ultra meter. Focus was also a good defensive option for him without his invincibility - u could do level one and let it counter hit and crumple attacking opponents who mistimed their attacks, or focus back-dash to escape since his focus back-dash is quite fast on recovery

[@crookycumbles]

Yeah, but that again was a universal mechanic. So Vega's best options were options that everyone else had, plus they had more.

[@miaouew]

The dev who programmed Vega must have lost to Takito in Super Turbo a bunch.

[@Draggzilla]

Surprised you didnt make more of these, would make you some money.

[@Bafael]

They take a long time to make.

[@GabrielTheMagolorMain]

As someone whose favorite character in sf2 Turbo being Vega bro got done mad dirty

[@sigmaklim2532]

Stellar video, Baf. I love stuff like this and you cut it perfectly.

[@SomniaCE]

I swear I heard that they made vanilla Vega bad on purpose cause in early internal or location tests he was insanely powerful so they overnerfed him at the 11th hour

[@ShinStriderHiryu]

probally true

[@Kawalorn12]

My favourite was normal Sky High Claw being unsafe ON HIT. Ryu could punish it with Metsu Hadouken after getting hit.

[@Bafael]

I forgot all about this. A lot of supers could punish it. Not much other stuff from what I remember though. Probably spiral arrows and similar moves. It recovered pretty far away.

[@ShantottoTarutaru]

1:16 oh wow a overhead looking kick that’s not an overhead capcom fixed this but still left sfv Juri with the same move

[@herpderp61]

I remember watching nlbc all the time and there was a few month streak where it was Smug vs Zues who was a godlike Vega player in grand finals every time. I miss those days.

[@DrContext]

15:05 I somehow laughed harder than I should have

[@antmane7]

I don’t wanna hear SFV Vega mains ever complain again.

[@lewissteward65]

I’m still doing it they changed his whole kit

[@Toomnyusernae]

@@lewissteward65 They buffed his wall dive amirite?

[@lewissteward65]

Toomnyusernae don’t know didn’t stick around

[@Toomnyusernae]

@@lewissteward65 Nah just playing. It's terrible and you're committed to steering in.

[@fissilewhistle]

Why not? He still sucks, he’s just playable now.

[@scrub8363]

Oh gosh, what are they doing at 6:10?

[@larquefausse3623]

haha... He was still my main in Vanilla. When Super rolled around just making EX Flying Barcelona hit on the way up made a world of difference.

[@loganwilliams6796]

15+ minute Baf SF4 is max comfy

[@AuntBibby]

tfw the dwarf freddie kreuger Vega from king of fighters makes vega look like a chump

[@SaiKisaragi]

Choi makes everyone look like a chump though

[@AuntBibby]

Sai Kisaragi thats a good point... he even makes the “smart” version of chang koehan a chump in comparison. i mean cmon, if chang koehan was “smart” in an alternate timeline, would he still be walkin’ around in the same prison uniform carryin’ the same iron ball.... but just look handsome? no, he’d be wearing adidas or nike and he’d fight with like 2 hammers chained together as nunchaku or something

[@InspectorChairLeg]

I have yet to meet a single person that doesn't like or dislikes Choi and Chang and I'm happy with that

[@lafave2555]

Vega does have amazing throw range, one of the best in the cast iirc

[@Bafael]

Yeah, and I mentioned his very good kara throw too. He's not without good features.

[@solzenstein]

1 frame links, I shudder at the memories.

[@EonTheAien]

Dang subscribe button made me realize I never had the notification bell on

[@pon3d120]

The fact that he had the "claw drop" mechanic on top of being one of the worst characters in the game was salt in the wound. It wasn't enough for him to have bad moves, he was also the only character in the game to get punished for BLOCKING CORRECTLY.

[@invincibleloonie]

Can you tell us the tale of Super Makoto, Uncle Baf?

[@Bafael]

I'd probably do 3s sean or vanilla sagat first

[@invincibleloonie]

Bafael Fair enough, but I would like to see the spotlight on Remy too.

[@broreece]

>No invincibility wow can't believe capcom made the same mistake twice. Seriously as a vega main i just hope sf6 has a good vega on first release

[@Shodan130]

no invincibility on vega is fine as long as they don't ruin the rest of his kit, even with no reversal outside of Ultra 2 in USF4 vega was still really good

[@zetadroid]

6:11 Sagat wtf you doin’ with yo hand?

[@RisingJericho]

Well I'm just glad they gave him a massive upgrade in Street Fighter 5- oh wait.

[@javoclean960]

I can tell you Vega now is a Solid mid tier, his crHP anti-air is not that bad. Only real garbage thing is terrible V-System compared to the casts. If you saw the CPT tournaments Vega Made a final and at least 5 top 8’s of 10 possibles, he is a good character, specially with his command grab shenanigans without claw

[@StylishGaz]

He's good in sfv what are you chatting?

[@kidumby7599]

Anyone else see that visual glitch at 4:21?

[@LightningCayo]

15:11 *Cries in Vega*

[@indigokid123]

That flame is egregious

[@Rav123123]

I guess they were trying desperately to avoid a super turbo claw situation. But we ended up with horse shit like evil ryu, and ibuki vortexes intead. so... good times?

[@pupilmusic3197]

Me playing sf4 without update for years: wait he wasn’t supposed to be broken?

[@AzzyLily]

You see, we made Vega bad. As a joke!

[@TSNMLitoFightingGamesPassion]

Lmao I'm sorry Vanilla SFIV Vega mains I was laughing the whole time during 15:10-15:25.

[@ThaRealCowboibishop]

I love these videos! I’ll always show up 4 1 of these.

[@SolidSonicTH]

SF4: 1Fs everywhere SF5: Easy combos with no variance or conversion potential *Shrug.*

[@PaddyRoon7]

Feels like an incomplete Melee character.

[@hoichunng1288]

Unplinkable, unconfirmable, unsafe

[@TenaciousGronn]

Vega was so good in old games he had to be nerfed forever

[@ambulatevega]

As a Vega main, this makes me happy.

[@altaccount5350]

I hope you get to make more content like this. Keep up the good work.

[@bowbay]

I can say that i lived through the Vanilla Vega vs Vanilla Sagat matchup

[@GinkgoPete]

Its like that RDC1world skit about fighting game combos but instead he got ruined by Claw in SF2

[@HypaXLink]

This shit has retriggered me. I forgot about some of these. Makes the low tier than vega is in SFV seem GODLIKE in comparison

[@taylorbee4010]

Vega is literally one of my favorite characters in Street fighter so like at one point I was going to play him in Street fighter 4 anyway.

[@just_2swift]

Wow claw was buns

[@jinxhand]

You should do a bad balance vid for MvC2.

[@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668]

What about chocolate Vega

[@ShinStriderHiryu]

that one is toptier

[@owwmykneecap]

I have a video of me landing ex mask remove into Ultra 2 in Tournament from back in the day. My favourite "combo" :)

[@raggaeldestro]

I think in certain situations standing roundhouse was unsafe on hit.

[@bageltime8983]

I have an OG copy of Vanilla sf4,and the wall issue is true. It always happens right when it matters

[@olivermisbach2454]

I've gone looking and I think footage of it happening just doesn't exist online. If you wanna upload a vid of it happening I'd really appreciate it.

[@bageltime8983]

@@olivermisbach2454 Unfortunately I don't have a way of recording anything.

[@bageltime8983]

@@olivermisbach2454 I guess i was being over dramatic when I said it always happens,but it is extremely rare,and I haven't gotten it to happen no matter how many hours I spent.

[@ShinStriderHiryu]

@@bageltime8983 bafael said theres a option select to it, maybe thats the secret

[@ElimiNathanYT]

Vega did have those awful, awful backflips with Px3 or Kx3 which were also his "answers" to fireball pressure. If the answer you were looking for involved zoning yourself out even more by moving backwards.

[@OkonkwoBigYams]

Very informative and interesting, and I never even played vega in sf4

[@Nejy]

This was back when I didnt understand frame data.

[@Tailstraw_xD]

Doesn't vega have invinicibility cheats when he neutral 3 kicks or 3 punches?

[@Bafael]

Yeah but generally it's a worse version of a backdash which is a universal mechanic. Vega's backflip has more invincibility, however it also has a much longer commitment so it can be punished on reaction while you usually have to option select against backdashes. It is very good for avoiding chip out, though. Also if they're option selecting against backdash, it can make their option select whiff. Generally Vega would MUCH rather have an offensive invincible reversal though, something that hits and thus stops the opponent.

[@just_2swift]

Zues best sf4 claw

[@SaiKisaragi]

I was just saying "eugh" after every whiff or trades lol how the fuck did this get out the door?