Baldur's Gate 2 Retrospective | A History of Isometric CRPGs (Episode 6)

It's finally time to talk about the legendary Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal for Episode 6 of my series on the history of isometric CRPGs. This is based on the Enhanced Edition released by Beamdog in 2013. If you would like to know more about my series on isometric CRPGs then please check out this video: • UPDATE: New CRPG video...
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Fallout 1 Retrospective (Episode 1): • Fallout 1 Retrospectiv...
Fallout 2 Retrospective (Episode 2): • Fallout 2 Retrospectiv...
Baldur's Gate 1 Retrospective (Episode 3): • Baldur's Gate Retrospe...
Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear (Episode 3.5): • Baldur's Gate: Siege o...
Planescape: Torment Retrospective (Episode 4): • Planescape: Torment Re...
Icewind Dale Retrospective (Episode 5): • Icewind Dale Retrospec...
#BaldursGate2 #BeamDog #CRPGs

[@ChrisDavis_Games]

In what appears to be a remarkable coincidence, Larian Studios is now not-so-subtly hinting at an announcement for Baldur's Gate 3, so I guess that bit about Baldur's Gate games never reaching the number three has been made redundant within an hour of this video's publication. You'd think talking about a 20-year-old game would make you relatively safe from last minute updates, but apparently not. Gotta love video games!

[@emmathepony1992]

lmao

[@silasdarkin7979]

Better start working on that half life 2 video!

[@sunbro6998]

That is hilarious. The updates never stop!!

[@timweenie725]

You knew all along!

[@ciapatyciapacz5354]

With Larian at least the combat should be fun

[@ChrisDavis_Games]

"Let's just accept that Baldur's Gate games aren't meant to reach the number three." That aged well.

[@ikaemos]

Hah! It's like the universe conspired to make this video outdated within hours. Personally, I'm glad it did. I would have liked to see Beamdog's attempt at BG3, but Larian will certainly do a good job at it too.

[@megamike15]

the same day to.

[@kambion]

@@ikaemos WAIT WHAT!?!?!?!

[@johnathanera5863]

@@kambion larian teased us with a baldurs gate 3 logo. Its not a lot and nothing has been officially confirmed tho.

[@Meta_Mage]

I have a question though, why exactly does there need to be a third game in this series? The story had a pretty definitive ending.

[@america8706]

I remember living with my uncle as a young kid and he had this old Windows 98 pc. It took me a long time before I earned his trust and was able to use his pc but one morning he asked if I wanted to play a game and of course I said yes. I had played MechWarrior and one other game about hunting dinos on school computers but had never sat down at home and been able to play on a pc for more than 15 minutes. My uncle brought out his catalog of game disks and asked what I wanted to play. He had the old X-wing game, this 1940’s era pirate fighter game with mercenaries using zeppelins as carriers, a bunch of other games, but most importantly to me, Baldur’s gate 1. I had played Baldur’s gate on the PS2 with my dad a year or two before and I had alot of fun with it, so being familiar with the world and expecting much of the same I chose that one. He showed me how to install the game on a PC and I loaded it up for the first of many many many times. For the next year or so I struggled through every single encounter and quest I could get my greedy little hands on. Sometimes I would be able to play all day and sometimes I wouldn’t be able to play for weeks. I would constantly harass my uncle about how to get through certain areas or what these spells did. That didn’t last long since he didn’t really have the patience to have a kid yapping at him all the time and he quickly told me that I’d have to figure it all out myself. But Baldur’s Gate consumed me and some of my fondest memories are of playing that game. I never got to beat the game sadly since I had to move back to my dads shortly after I made it to Baldur’s Gate itself but nevertheless the story, combat, and hardcore attitude of the game really taught me to try to strive to be a better person. Maybe not good, but a more skilled version of myself. My uncle who had been playing D&D since it first came out along with other tabletop games was a pretty big influence on how I gamed. He was gruff, blunt, and a bit unlikeable, hell I wouldn’t even say that I liked him all that much. But for all his flaws he was the most true neutral person I have ever met and some days I even miss him. Rip Tom Morton.

[@edmomo4410]

America best story ever

[@elitereptilian200]

cool story dude..

[@alphakodiak16]

C'est la vie. There's bittersweet melancholy written all across your story; glad to have read it.

[@bowlock9901]

Your Uncle was a good man, he gave you much more than you realised at the time, great story, really enjoyed it.

[@56Werdan]

I can recognize one of those games: it's Crimson Skies. Great fun, your uncle had good taste.

[@TheCivildecay]

Baldur's gate 2's graphics aged a lot better than NWN's graphics

[@matternicuss]

NWN never looked that great. It only took a year or two for it to become visually outdated. The engine, however, is legendary, and paved the way for classics like KOTOR and The Witcher.

[@DrakeHunter324]

To be honest that's 3d games in general. The tech keeps on moving. With 2D/isometric games if you nail the art style it'll still look great many years later.

[@michaelstronghold3550]

Style is more important than graphics.

[@kreeperrock]

@@DrakeHunter324 yeah early final fantasy games are still fine to play ff7 makes my eyes bleed nowadays though. Early 3d was horrible.

[@mishking9547]

@@kreeperrock Well here comes the FF7 remake...well atleast all of Midgar :P

[@jacobhuppertz5625]

Oh the post BG3 release and watching this feels amazing. Thank god for Larian and their incredible release

[@diestormlie]

"Nowerdays, these are written by Jason Schrier and published on Kotaku." *Chef's Kiss*

[@alexoelkers2292]

The cool part about Baldurs Gate 2 is that every quest is unique, there aren't any fetch quests or go kill this monster ten times.

[@tunnar79]

Except that one fetch quest for the frigging gong :))

[@megamike15]

there are atlest 1 or 2 minor fetch quests in some districts. but they are the minority of the quests.

[@7dayspking]

There are fetch quests. 'Kill X monsters' are basically unheard of in singleplayer RPGs. Much more likely to find those in MMOs, hack'n Slash games and live service games.

[@7dayspking]

@Silvaren cRPG Then you haven't played many RPGs 'today'.

[@alexoelkers2292]

@@7dayspking There aren't any quests in BG2 that ask you to kill x numbers of monsters. There are a couple minor fetch quests here and there (like most modern RPGS have as well) but definitely less than other games of its time.

[@luxinterna3370]

As a DnD and Baldurs Gate 2 nerd, who plays through this game on the highest difficulty every year at least one time since 2000, its quite interesting to see a newcomer playing and rating this masterpiece. well done

[@richiesmoothbrain3944]

I literally thought I wrote this comment because since its release I do exactly what you said. Baldurs gate 2 is the only game i feel i have mastered. Sorcerer is my favorite class followed closely by kensai/mage combo. This is my favorite game of all time.

[@piotrzajas9014]

@@richiesmoothbrain3944 Same here :D

[@Marcus_Halberstram]

That's great and all, but have you ever tried DMT?

[@uniquechannelnames]

@@richiesmoothbrain3944 I highly enjoy Sorcerer too, I recently made a Swashbuckler that I dualed into a mage at lvl 10 and goddamn, that char fuckin kicks ass. I can dual wield (swash gets 3 stars in dual wield) 2 katanas and along with my mage spells I'm pretty unstoppable. If I wanna go all out on the fighting I cast tenser's transformation I get up to -10 AC, -6 THACO.. A powerful character.

[@Meta_Mage]

Cant believe you missed out on both Vicionia and Aerie. Still the greatest CRPG experience for me after 30 years of gaming!

[@TheCivildecay]

Yes they were the best

[@tropik5724]

Viccy our girl.

[@thedowntowndogg]

Cmon back Chris we need ya!

[@jjgiblin]

You killed Aerie? You monster! She was my closest companion and love interest :(

[@andreaswestman8944]

My thoughts exactly :D

[@silentspartan46]

Aerie for Baldur’s Gate 3!!

[@larsulle3842]

So annoying! "Boo-hoo! My wings got clipped! Whimper whimper i wanna be strong!" I couldn't stand having her and Jaheira in the same party. Jaheira complained so much i wanted to feed her to Firkraag, and Aerie was so wimpy i wanted to leave her with the drow.

[@berenedain8427]

My evil party had Aerie for all of about 5 minutes. For some reason she didn't like the drow in my party. I was an equal opportunities employer and wouldn't abide her racist outbursts. XD

[@video_ouija7114]

@@larsulle3842 she says some badass stuff at the end and grew as a character. Not to mention being incredibly strong in battle

[@agriphalalbion115]

I love your review videos. Your voice is calm and your script is balanced and well reasoned. Thank you. It's a rare joy to listen to you. I feel much better about how I spent my day.

[@mrchuckmorris]

J. Jonah Jameson: "If Spider-Man doesn't wanna be famous, I'll make him INfamous!" Chris Davis: "What's the difference?"

[@megamike15]

chris " i don't know the definition of infamous" davis.

[@Bloodynine606]

Comparing this to Bioware's current work is like comparing Game of Thrones season 1-4 to season 8

[@khal7702]

This was perfect

[@bloodynine3798]

@Makoto Urahama no.

[@tbone9474]

@Makoto Urahama you obviously have 0 taste for good drama and character development

[@okeybuckeye524]

Well said

[@toiletbrush69]

@@tbone9474 What "good drama" and "character development" are you talking about? The show relies solely on shock value to maintain viewer interest.

[@Supagamer1989]

Small tip: Your familiar can be tucked away in your backpack if you initiate dialogue with it. Bonus hp, no danger of constitution loss. Love the videos!

[@tunnar79]

Whaaaaaaaat !? F*ckin hell,I didn't know that and I'm on my 2nd playthrough....

[@dru8137]

>game with the most hours in my steam library, around 300 >never once knew this was a feature

[@chrismurphy4398]

Holy shit! Thank you!

[@idaret.]

Fun fact about "negative plane protection" - there was loading screen tip about it but bg2:ee is too fast for loading screens so they removed them. I think most people who played original BG2 knew about it.

[@shawngillogly6873]

Yeah. The tips were an important clue in the original version about what would be prominent. Something Pathfinder:Kingmaker recaptured.

[@Don-sc1vz]

I grew up on Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Planescape Torment and R.A. Salvatore books. I just started playing Baldur's Gate 2 again or the first time since it was new because I came across this video. It is so much better than many modern games. Most games, even RPGs, are so watered down now. Kenshi is awesome if anyone reading this hasn't played it yet.

[@s.t.5993]

This game was my first experience with DND and arpgs back in high school. I saw the manual full of information and very intimidating. I used a guide to finish it and it took me 1.5 years. The dark elf area was hard, it took me months to kill the enemies. Wow what a breathtaking game

[@JaredTakesTime]

Baldur's Gate is a truly special game. It's not perfect but I haven't played a game since that is this dense. Removing its historical importance, it still stands up as a game that as you've touched on, leaves you wanting more, not less. And of course, Jon Irenicus set the bar for villains in video games. "I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?" Not your life, Shadows of Amn. Not your life.

[@khal7702]

It was my first RPG...

[@divolg7981]

@Manek Iridius Well, there's no account for poor taste. Also, what the fuck are you even doing here then?

[@kambion]

lmfao @ "which is why bioware now releases completely bug free games"

[@lilfrostyy8829]

*Stares at Mass Effect: Andromeda and Anthem*

[@es_three232]

Shhh. Dont ruin it for him. I wanna believe that too.

[@riley8385]

@Heresiarch /woosh

[@bozoclown2925]

@Heresiarch hint: he was joking

[@RyanKaufman]

@@riley8385 It's beautiful when people woosh this hard. Especially when they have dated meem pics

[@alexoelkers2292]

To this day this game is still my favorite RPG game of all time!

[@MrCristor]

We never saw again such a great villain like Irenicus!

[@TheCivildecay]

Same, I played most populair rpg's (series), and none of them are as good as baldur's gate 2

[@Ciowan]

Mine too.

[@XenomorphsWrath]

Back when it was new I played BG 2 so often, that I became a walking, living guide to it. I could draw out most of the locations and the trap locations, notable items, npcs, everything. It ended with me beeing able to complet the entire game (BG 2 + ToB) in 2 and a half days (friday afternoon + the weekend) and I must say that I still get the urge to play it. It was a great game, a milestone in cRPG designe and a game that held "best game I have ever played" until I touched the mass effect series. Kotor 2 came close, VERY close, but in the end the bugs put it firmly on the silver pedastle. To everyone who has not played it but is interested in story and character plays - Buy it and take your time. It is complex, but you can manage it if you read through your options and if in doubt, simply go for one of the many "strong builds" you can find online and just execute them. It will feel like you are cheesing or breaking the game, but if you don't want to deal with learning it yourself it's always an option.

[@worstpiloteu1645]

Yup Mass Effect (trilogy) has the best story in a game (series) of all time.

[@TheBarser]

I play it every few years, and think I go at it again which is why I am here. It is just difficult for me not to play as stupid op kensai/mage. It is just to tempting.

[@eziospaghettiauditore8369]

@@worstpiloteu1645 if you don't count the third game

[@eziospaghettiauditore8369]

Absolutely do not look online and instead actually play the game and figure stuff out for yourself that is half the fun. My favorite class is a Jester for crying out loud

[@AmstradHero]

An interesting retrospective, though I think there are a bunch of things you either didn't discover or simply are thinking about things without taking into consideration that this was a game released in 2000. 1. You spend quite a bit of time talking about how you're not good at the combat and simply missed things. The game originally came on 4 cds and took quite a while to install. That gave the player plenty of time to read the manual, which was a nicely presented with a ring binder and was generally a delight to read. Additionaly, load screen hints gave plenty of extra information, and I'm pretty sure one of those was about avoiding level drain. This meant you found things like the first line of the paragraph description of "Negative Plane Protection" - "This spell affords the caster or touched creature partial protection from undead monsters with Negative Energy plane connections (such as vampires) and certain weapons and spells that drain energy levels." All the information you needed to know how to play the game was in the manual. If you're not reading that, you not really playing the game like people played it back when the game was released. This was a time where manuals actually mattered and people read them. 2. In the original version of BG2, there was simply an introduction movie to say that some people in Baldur's Gate became suspicious of your lineage, and then you ended up getting kidnapped in the middle of the night. No arbitrary pre-imprisonment, no convoluted lead-up, just a "someone powerful tracked you down and kidnapped you." Spending a bunch of time criticising BG2's introduction because of the way it's handled in Siege of Dragonspear isn't really a reflection on BG2, but Beamdog's work. It just feels a bit out of place. 3. You mention Minsc getting over Dynaheir quite quickly. While Minsc's addled mental state might account partially for this, he doesn't really forget Dynaheir entirely, and will even adopt Aerie as his new witch if she's in the party. If she ever gets low on health, Minsc will go into a berserk state because he refuses to lose another witch under protection, thus reinforcing that he really has not forgotten about Dynaheir. 4. The book about curing vampirism only comes into play if you have a romance in the game. Your love interest will be stolen away and turned into a vampire in one of the later chapters of the game, and after having to fight against them, you end up having to restore them back to humanity. 5. Complaining about the romances and the restrictions on them feels somewhat overblown - particularly as I said, given the context of the game being released in 2000. Romances were an uncommon thing at this point in games, so the fact that they stick to the societal norms of the time, and adhere to somewhat strict racial limitations of AD&D lore is not really surprising, and criticising it feels a bit like it is lacking in context of when the game was actually released. 6. Neera was an addition to the enhanced edition version of the game - so you issue with her adding a bunch of interruptions didn't occur in the base game. 7. I'm pretty sure that doors in the Illithid dungeon can be forced open if you have sufficient strength. 8. Your complaint about the big boss at the end of Watcher's Keep is essentially a result of your lack of investment in the setting. The big bad of Watcher's Keep is a HUGE figure in the setting, so the fact that you as a player would get to go head to head with it (or even have any involvement in its continued imprisonment) is MASSIVE. It's a massive bit of fan service before fan service became a cheesy and forced - anyone who cared about the Forgotten Realms would have been super excited to deal with it. 9. The complaints about the Pocket Plane feeling too similar to Hell at the end of BG2 also neglects the fact that ToB came out a good nine months after BG2, so it didn't feel repetitive as you've made it sound for people who actually played them without being directly back to back. I'd also contend you're overplaying the similarities between the two, but that's opinion for you. 10. Your complaint about the ending of choosing to be a God not being evil is actually missing a point as well. If you ARE evil and you choose to become a God, you are in fact becoming a new EVIL God, pursuing an evil agenda rather than becoming a more benevolent deity as you would have encountered. Finally, the reason that people believe that Baldur's Gate was originally intended to be a trilogy is because that is explicitly stated within the Throne of Bhaal manual. To quote: "From the start of the Baldur's Gate series, we had always planned to do an epic trilogy. Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal is the final chapter of the Baldur's Gate trilogy and the conclusion of the Child of Bhaal saga."

[@megamike15]

he really should have played this in production order and waited to do sod when he got to the modern crpg era. i enjoy sod fine but alot of his issues come from him having played sod with out playing bg 2 before so he assumes alot of stuff when he got here.

[@timyo6288]

No, not true at all

[@AmstradHero]

@@timyo6288 Are you replying to me? Because if so, if you're going to disagree with me, you'll need to provide some evidence rather than going "wrong".

[@eziospaghettiauditore8369]

He even admits that he literally didn't read the spell descriptions when it said that it had a drawback like permanently removing constitution for the summon familiar so it's on him for not actually playing the game

[@eziospaghettiauditore8369]

@@timyo6288 I love someone who looks at multiple paragraphs and just says no very informative

[@lukewithann7256]

yoshimo was affected by a geas. i think i read somewhere they wanted to make it possible to save him (someone found dialogue options for him from later in the game) but it was cut due to time constraints. its a real shame too because yoshimo is one of my favourite characters

[@LetsPlayPC]

For as "outdated" as its graphics supposedly were in 2000, this game has aged way better than NWN, which had those hidieous and boring tilesets that look abysmal now.

[@Novofreeze]

Been waiting for this. Absolutely adore this series, keep it up mate!

[@CalloftheWildOfficial]

All time favorite!

[@RiceBenderson]

I almost thought you quit making these thank you so much

[@ladysundae6545]

Made my morning to see this Patreon notification come through!

[@gaddag1477]

"Dated graphics" NWN looks bad now compared to BG2.

[@moomah5929]

I think BG1 aged worth than BG2, both prerendered graphics and old polygon graphics aged badly. Polygon graphics aged worse most likely, depending on how much detail the prerendered graphics possessed. But I tend to find many games with fully prerendered graphics quite ugly and already prefered classic sprites and pixelart far better looking then newer (mid 90s) games, where the makers thought sterile render graphics are the future.

[@bangchanswebbrowsinghistor5145]

still playing bg2 today. still find the maps gorgeous.

[@megamike15]

i find nwn's graphics charming.

[@7dayspking]

@@moomah5929 'I prefer sprites than pre rendered games'.....ehhhhh. Prerendered games are often claimed to be the best looking games of the 90s, it's hard to say either way. I'd say it varies from game to game.

[@MillenniumEarl014]

NWN EE looks good tho

[@demoulius1529]

BG2 has been one of my most beloved gaming memory. It was lovely to hear your experiences with it :)

[@NKMitch42]

Im always torn on the relationship stuff. Open relationship options are good for fantasy of the player, but im also interested in characters being fully fleshed with their own preferences, it makes them feel more real to me as people than if I can romance everyone, I like the preferences of my companions being as varied as my group of friends irl. And both of those things are important, imo.

[@stevenzemaitis1513]

I miss this series, favorite channel I’ve found on old school rpgs

[@CalloftheWildOfficial]

Great job Chris! I love that you encountered and articulated the level drain woes as well. One of my most memorable times in the game was discovering your 3 points as well, much obliged!

[@zanmato86]

Great to see this series continued. This era of gaming was superb. Hundreds of hours in baldurs gate and I still enjoy playing now.

[@bachstrad1994]

"How wonderfully mad of you" is one of my favorite lines in the game

[@Rzepik]

RIP Aerie. Somebody finally fell for it.

[@megamike15]

aerie always is in my party. so him killing her makes me sad.

[@bulanet271]

Aerie romance song. Innocence at it's finest.

[@TheCivildecay]

Never expected anyone to actually kill Aerie... She was my waifu (before that was a thing) when I was a teenager

[@bulanet271]

@@TheCivildecay no more acorn cracking for her

[@video_ouija7114]

When I first played the game, i went to the circus right away. Set the tone immediately that your choices have huge impact. The game would just let you kill a companion like that right away, incredible. Fantastic game

[@waveplay3978]

Great retrospective. I will say that BG2 is probably the best, most complete RPG experience I've ever had. There are RPGs I had more fun with and that I'm more fond of (Vampire Bloodlines for example) but this is a game that is the quintessential RPG in pretty much every way. I played the game back when it was new, but never beat it, only getting as far as the Underdark and getting distracted by the newest shiny game. So I recently replayed it (in 2015) and I couldn't believe just how MUCH there was in this game. So much freedom, so many interesting small stories in the form of quests and secondary dialog. So many companions with fleshed out personalities who you could interact with, do their personal quests, etc. Everywhere I looked, there the game was, offering me something to dive into. But same as you, the combat system is kind of my bane. I never played tabletop D&D and I just can't grok the system. Most of the time I'm using brute force to get over encounters. The difficult ones are sometimes so extremely hard that I'm quickloading for what feels like hours. The spells and status effects are so numerous that figuring it out must be very rewarding and the key to mastering the system (another aspect of this game that is full of meat on its bones), but it becomes mentally exhausting. I beat the game for the first time in that playthrough on normal difficulty, but set it down to "story mode" for Throne of Bhaal, which I don't know if it was the right decision. I'm sure I'd have gone crazy trying to take on all these boss fights, as it's a real gauntlet, but doing it on story mode trivialized the experience to the point where I felt like I'm not getting the proper experience. Overall, this left a weird after taste for me and kind of colored my feelings for the game as a whole. But the base BG2 was amazing.

[@karlobasil8493]

So,in story mode,enemies basically can't kill you,right?

[@waveplay3978]

@@karlobasil8493 Yeah pretty much. You can still die if you play REALLY badly, but it should be a cake walk for anyone who pays even just a bit of attention. If anything the final battles were in a weird spot where I wouldn't die, but the boss would still be able to take a lot of my attacks, so it was just kinda drawn out IIRC.

[@karlobasil8493]

@@waveplay3978 thanks man)And what about bg1?I heard it's pretty much dated game,especially in term of side quests...Did i need to play first game,or i should go straight to the second one?

[@waveplay3978]

@@karlobasil8493 BG1 is a good, very classic D&D RPG. It has a traditional feel to it. "You walk into a tavern and meet somebody who hires you for a dungeon delve" kind of thing. I liked it for that, it's comforting. Also the battles are more simple than in BG2 since you start at level 1 and get to 7 or 8 by the end. So there's fewer, less complex spells and abilities to juggle. Overall it's a good game but it BG2 is a lot better in most aspects. So if you only have time and energy to play one of them probably go for BG2

[@karlobasil8493]

@@waveplay3978 thanks for the answer)btw,who are you romanced in bgs2?

[@thesaim1036]

Thanks for the nostalgia trip man. I almost forgot how good these games were and how much I loved them. They absolutely blew my mind when I was a kid and your video makes me want to give them another run sooner or later. Cheers!

[@chriswhetton3584]

This game, and the original, used to come with a massive manual that was incredibly useful. The EE do not come with this obviously, so I wouldn’t consider using the internet cheating when that resource is not available

[@balhaddadinn]

The Alignment detection is used in one quest for the paladin stronghold. But, other than that, yes, it's useful to read the aura of an NPC and can indeed give you a clue about whether or not to expect a trap or deception. Also, there are certain spells like Holy Smite, Holy Word or their opposites, that only affect enemies of certain alignments - I found myself (on my first playthrough, since Ii didn't know then) reading enemy alignments just to be sure what spells will be effective.

[@MyKeyMoonShine]

Getting the EEs on sale is the only reason I played these games and I'm so glad I did. BG2 is one of the best games I've ever played and I only played it s a few years ago. I think my favourite thing about it is that some of the side quests are their own huge stories, with areas and characters and massive ramifications, can't think of many games that do this.

[@JasonoftheNorth]

Your style and humility are inspiring and refreshing. Reading your Patreon page was such a joy. Thanks for being who you are and sharing your voice with us. 💯

[@pissqueendanniella4688]

To be fair, the use of 'plane' in 'negative plane protection' can sound ultra obscure if you aren't already associating the power of spells coming from another plane of existence rather than from something more local like the caster something.

[@jasonblankenship5166]

Great retrospective. Loved BG2. However I’m even more excited for your arcanum retrospective as it is probably one of my favorite games of all time, warts and all.

[@viewtifuljoe99]

Just finished my first playthrough of BG2 and wanted to return to finally watch this video. There is just so much to this game. Despite having spent 85hrs on it and not even doing the expansion yet, I still feel like I rushed through it when I hear about all these sidequests and things I missed.

[@bostonceltics3055]

That's why there are so many people doing multiple playthroughs with a different main char and companions. One of the best games there is, no doubt about that.

[@DrakeHunter324]

Now you made me fire up the game again. I used to pull all nighters playing this game. Too old to pull that off nowadays.

[@ppunion]

@Chris Davis. You sir, you are a MONSTER for making me play the game AGAIN.

[@elitereptilian200]

@Daniel Codd sucks to get old doesn´t it.. *sigh*

[@Shaewaros]

I think most players don't know how to deal with Level Drain. I remember doing all the same mistakes you did first time playing BG2. I'm happy that you didn't give up on learning more about the game mechanisms after encountering these challenges, but it inspired you to read spell descriptions closely. This is the same effect BG2 had on me back in the day - I read the game manual through countless times until I had familiarized myself with most of the game mechanisms. And the game rewards you for experimenting and dedicating time to understand it more thoroughly.

[@DrakeHunter324]

2E rules in general confused many players.

[@oliviawilliams6204]

One thing to note is that actually BioWare did not import any choices between games in Baldur’s Gate. Only the characters sheets and inventory is imported. So for example killing Edwin in 1 won’t affect the game anymore than killing Dorn

[@Jandau85]

Funny how Bioware was being called out for using an "outdated" engine for BG2, only to put on NWN a few years later on a new engine, but when we look back BG2 looks a LOT nicer than NWN (which is just horrid to behold at this point)...

[@megamike15]

it became more funny when you think besides mass effect [ it was ue] they just used a modified nwn engine up tilll da 2.

[@TheCivildecay]

2D graphics age a lot better than 3D

[@megamike15]

@@TheCivildecay depends on the 3d. i find cell shaded games age alot better then normal 3d.

[@mrchuckmorris]

@@megamike15 That's why Wind Waker looks better and better while Twilight Princess looks worse and worse, even though at the time everyone was like "UGH finally, a *realistic* looking Zelda game!"

[@Ammothief41]

That vampire energy drain ended my play through of the game years ago. Funny hearing it gave everyone trouble.

[@Nard2ndG]

I'm going to check out Scott Lynch, mentioning him side by side with Joe Abercrombie and Brandon Sanderson is all I need.

[@KalleVilenius]

Getting interrupted on every quest by starting another quest is what adventure is all about!

[@TheBoxingCannabyte]

To me the infinity engine is like playing DnD on a beautiful moving painting or something. It has an ageless look about it. IF they did some graphics update the most i'd want to see it go is Pillars 2 graphics, and keep as much of the hand-drawn stuff as possible, (updated character models like Pillars 2 would be awesome)

[@TheBoxingCannabyte]

okay, seeing Baldur's Gate 3 and having pre-ordered it....I gotta say i am VERY excited, it didn't do what i wanted, but probably did something MUCH better. That said, I am working on a storyline for my Half-Dwelf-Half-Drow Bhaalspawn that will fit him in a thread from BG1-BG2-TOB-Icewind Dale 1-2, possibly Neverwinter Nights, but definitely ICewind (Ill have to adjust the year the events of IWD happen which seems fine) and the Bhaalspawn re-appears, with amnesia and having had some very major physical changes in BG-3 and im gonna mod Jaheria and Minsc to recognize my character.

[@SageofStars]

I will say, Watcher's keep is best experienced by those familiar with the setting, the forgotten realms. It's a love letter to those of us who played these games, read the novels of the time, and played ADnD, featuring names(Lum the Mad, Demigorgon, the deck of Many Things) that were touch stones for the community. That is the flaw of course, and yet, I loved the game for it back in the day. It's the nichest of the niche content type.

[@onnol917]

You did a really nice job on this video and I love the detail about the main villian. He is my favorite bad guy, voice actor did such a good job solidifying him

[@Heya1111]

I don't always agree with you on the details of your critique but it's absolutely great that you've taken the time to articulate them fairly! Thank you!

[@CarltonGauss]

"the more I played Odyssey, the less I enjoyed it". Every AC game in a nutshell. Those games have really perfected overstaying their welcome.

[@maurogalindez3901]

AC one was the perfect length and innovation factor. Two was already too long for it's lack of variety in gameplay but the story kept it interesting. All AC after that are a waste of your time. I've played them all but never finished one after 1 & 2

[@eziospaghettiauditore8369]

@@maurogalindez3901 I thoroughly enjoyed Assassin's Creed 1. There was too much sitting and listening to people talk but the political dialogue was completely unique and I'm a big fan of Deus Ex and Bioshock.

[@WolfHreda]

6:55 *Todd Howard starts sweating* 🤣

[@-RTC-]

I remember going into Software Etc. in my hometown and seeing BG2 on the shelf and being so excited to play it. I got it when it first released and loved it. But I never finished it. Every couple years I would revisit it, play 50-70 hours but never actually complete the game. I finally finished it and the expansion about a year ago, and am really glad I finally did. Just listening to this video has me wanting to play it again. That music too. Some of the best video game music ever.

[@steffanvandepoll]

I guess for people who know a lot about D&D lore, the underdark is an amazing place like truelly.. I guess also for those with knowledge of Salvatore's books meeting Jarlaxle is just a delight.. also the fish in the jar - an actual Aboleth... seeing one in the game is just.. *mind blown... I have nothing but love for these details. Though for most regular players these are things that are just unnoticable. Such a shame.

[@silentspartan46]

The Underdark is my number one part of the game for me. Mindflayers and drow man

[@tatuira93]

This series of yours is killer, I'm subscribed to see more of these.

[@Marinanor]

16:00 Energy drain is a real pain in the balls. I despise it.

[@takarahayashi4124]

the cure for vampirism is based on whether your MC had a lover or not. cause Bhodi turns them into a vampire. Just FYI.

[@LiquidSnake1988]

Well, here's 2023, Baldurs gate 3 by larian studio🎉

[@Mrityugata]

About the lack of feedback -- in the "feedback" section of the gameplay options you can turn on the to-hit and saving rolls display.

[@eziospaghettiauditore8369]

Yeah honestly I think he's just playing the wrong type of game if he's whining about the game not playing itself and giving the player too much options for strategy

[@sebastiencarrieres8825]

At 55:40 , when you say you had to become the slayer, well, actually there's another way to do it as when coming close to the door it says something like huge strength or force of will can open the door. It happens in this dungeon full of creature with amazing mental powers, you can control them, so you don't have to be the slayer...

[@tolo84]

Romance in modern Bioware games is also something I feel kind of ruins the experience. Not every NPC is going to be open to every combination of race and sexuality, as well they shouldn't. Characters *should* have preferences, that's what makes them stand out from each other. They're supposed to be more than just a blank slate. Jan Jansen isn't interested in gay orcs. This is part of what made Dragon Age 3 so unbearable to me personally, having every side character a sex-starved, lovesick puppy just pining for you to make your moves. It's not a dating simulator, and having these dating sim aspects written so generically so as to be flagged by any type of character you create only cheapens romance in general, but detracts much too much from the actual story of the games. Also, saying Keldorn lies is in of itself a lie. He says he'll return once the quest is complete, and dismissing him doesn't mean the quest is over, it's not until Irenicus is stopped. It's completely in character for Keldorn to remain available until the quest is complete, regardless if he's in your active party or not.

[@megamike15]

i personally feel the way romances are done in baldurs gate feels more natural then in most bioware games. it might be due to it being the first time they did it so it does not take away from the rest of the focus of the game. even some modded romances are really good like xan's.

[@Murasakiriyu]

Well solas rejection was brilliant in Dragon age inquisition. After all that time building a connection to him... he just leaves for what he believes is more important. But yes romances in BG were good. For bisexual interests Enderal (skyrim mod) was good. Giving diversity of choice but without shoving it in your face.

[@EldritchAugur]

Khalid being brutally murdered off screen is supposed to be the point I think. Having some cliched necessary sacrifice would've just made Irenicus seem less monstrous.

[@ded2thaworld963]

Oh man, about to have a nostalgia seizure. I LOVED the Baldurs gate games and cant count the hours i spent on them.

[@5punkybob]

I was born in 85 and never played dnd at all but my friend the same age played with his parents and a few friends and he introduced me to BG. I purchased it and it was my first RPG I played. I didn’t understand the DnD mechanics but I was able to get through the game without knowing what THAAC0 was so yay!! I never played past the first dungeon in BG2 but I have the EE version on my switch (I own on PC also but never get time on my PC) so I’m starting at BG and will play through to the end of BG2!

[@leeux]

That book you found about curing vampirism... let's say it has a big relevance, in a special case... and it's not when siding with vampires :) Let's say you missed on that by turning down Anomen :P

[@TheHalogen131]

Nah, he missed out on Viconia romance. Anomen isn't worth it.

[@leeux]

@@TheHalogen131 Yeah, maybe so... I don't disagree... but since he was playing a female CHARNAME, Anomen was the only option he had in this playthrough... Anyways, the point I was trying to make is that the event I was referring to in my post only happens when you're romancing someone, not matter who.

[@megamike15]

@@TheHalogen131 he was useingthe viconia's portrait. she was not in his party. i got confused by that to at first. thats a pet peeve of mine with this series. don't use a party members portrait. use the defaults for chrname or use your own custom ones.

[@TheHalogen131]

@@megamike15 Yes, I know. Unfortunately playing as a male has much better romance options than as female.

[@megamike15]

@@TheHalogen131 well rassad's romance is supposed to be very good. but he refused to use the beam dog's npcs.

[@ankujo8924]

Really enjoying listening to your whole take on these games. Went through a similair round of discovery on all these old cRPGs a few years ago myself. Really love them all save for kind of Icewindale. Also only just started Arcanum myself a week ago lol. Which looks like is next in this playlist xD

[@Saturn2888]

You talked about being able to skip an entire section after rescuing Imoen. I was watching your video thinking "I know I got to the mind flayers in my only playthrough early 2000s, but I sure as heck don't remember this part." Apparently I went directly in the portal. This game is so incredible. I wish I was able to finish it all those years ago. 120 hours in and got stuck in a single battle with mind flayers...

[@megamike15]

the mind flayer dungeon is a side quest in the underdark. what you can skip is the shark city.

[@Saturn2888]

​@@megamike15 This was 20 years ago. I deleted the save years ago thinking I'd never end up beating the game.

[@snarkmarx]

"I wanna play the entire game again, just not anytime soon" I feel the same way about the Dune movie.

[@megamike15]

i tend to make myself replay the bg series every few months'

[@brianelkins8604]

In the original game there were only four romanceable characters. 3 female and one male and none of them could be romanced by the same sex. As far as I know, this was the fist game to introduce romanceable characters. If this is the case then I think we can cut them some slack on the black a variety.

[@TheCivildecay]

YES PLEASE! was afraid that Larian would have finished BG3 before this video dropped ;) Btw how could you kill Aerie?! you monster! ;)

[@JuanSolos]

i didn't find your isometric retrospectives until today with Fallout 1 but have been really enjoying them

[@robd9413]

One of the points of Portal vs Fish City choice is that you get a piece of the Vorpal Sword and a piece of the Wave halberd if you take the city route. The Vorpal sword has an occasional insta-kill against anything (including dragons apparently but I've never pulled that off) and the Wave Halberd has an mostly guaranteed insta-kill against fire-based things (like the greater fire elementals and fire elemental prince in ToB). Both are worth the diversion. Might be other stuff down there too.

[@GuyIncognitoIV]

It’s been a long time since I played BG2 and the truly terrible path finding is one of the only things I can remember about it! Despite that, I’m looking forward to replaying it, especially now that I’ve got these enhanced editions - your vids have made me excited to revisit all these classics

[@brent13420]

Never been to your channel, never watched a standard youtube video that was over an hour and I actually watched too! Good work, although this is my Game and I loved listening to you talk about it. I loved hearing your perspective playing it, I have played it so much since I first got it back in 2000. You have done a great service to this game in your retrospective, consider me subscribed, Thank You.

[@charlesdexterward7781]

The ultimate BG2 for experienced players: permadeath mode using the famous SCS, Spell Revisions, and Item Revisions mods. The greatest 'fair' difficulty and balancing mods of all time.

[@Garret02]

Actually, Sarevok is super badass (periodically dealing over 200 damage), has cool voice, great dialogs AND you can change his alignment to good through conversations and actions.

[@mrchuckmorris]

Agreed -- for someone who claims to be so story-centric, Chris Davis really dropped the ball on dissing Sarevok. His redemption arc, accepting that the Bhaalspawn will usurp his place in history, moves him from being a generic "Kurgan from Highlander" clone in BG1 into totally new territory. My one wish they never granted (outside of mods) was allowing Solaufein into your party. But he probably would've tread too much on Viconia and even Drizzt's identities. Too many "redeemed Drow" arcs dilutes them all, I suppose.

[@Bloodsaber64]

The final boss of Watcher's keep is the stuff of nightmares

[@CMLew]

There is something interesting character wise about companions only having certain preferences, makes them seem more real and well rounded. Of course much like you being a straight white male that makes it easier for me as some of my preferences are probably more well versed.

[@kokizzu]

like these kinds of game artstyle, like Arcanum, Sacred 1/2, Diablo 2

[@TheNickcone]

Arcanum is amazing

[@xzaratulx]

It will forever be my most loved and played game. Amazing review !

[@mage1over137]

So what you do with your familiar is you put in your inventory so it's safe. This is done by talking to it.

[@TheGrimLlama]

It's really cool to watch reviews for games that had such a big impact on my early life as a gamer. Also I like that you're so honest about your flaws... coz like most of the game isn't THAT hard dude, just read stuff, but then again I've been playing these games since I was like 10. Still very much enjoyed the videos and will come to you when they release BG 3.

[@billlyons7024]

Weird, I am currently playing through Baldur's Gate Enhanced for the first time, and planning to move on to my second playthrough of Baldur's Gate 2 and TOB after that. The last thing I was expecting was a KZbin video on the series to come up in my alerts.

[@alexoelkers2292]

I would be happy if they made Baldurs Gate 3 with the same old infinity engine.

[@Art0r1a]

Maybe it's just me, but I think both the infinity engine and the d&d combat are integral part of what Baldur's Gate is. So as much as I am happy that there could be a BG3, I think they should go with a different name if they deviate too much from the first two games.

[@alexoelkers2292]

@@Art0r1a its not just you. its crossed my mind that if the third game was made by a different company, with a new engine, and a new story it might as well be a completely different game.

[@bulanet271]

Maybe they'd use pillars engine or somethin

[@Murasakiriyu]

@@bulanet271 that's the unity engine. Which Pathfinder: kingmaker also uses. I doubt larian would use it though. Probably modified from their own divinity engine

[@mrchuckmorris]

Something about seeing that fully rendered Flaming Fist soldier made me nearly shed a tear. My biggest worry for this game will be that they won't realize what made the originals so great, and it'll end up yet another MT-heavy loot crate failure of a trendy clone, complete with fReE-fOr-ALL mOdE. 2nd biggest worry is that the button-mashers who think it's supposed to be Dark Alliance 3 will be vocally disappointed and wipe their sweaty cheeto fingers all over the reviews.

[@j.lahtinen7525]

I really like the fact that the game lets you miss out on content - it makes replaying the game more interesting, as you may discover something you missed out on the first time. As to the evil characters, Edwin is great! Aside from the fact that he's the strongest NPC mage in the game, his personality makes for.... interesting times. His personal quest is absolutely hilarious.😁 Arie can be a little whiny (understandable, given her past), but she's a great character too, with many interesting interactions with other party members. And her "war cry" can sometimes be pretty funny; I once defeated a dragon by buffing her up to the max, to give her a high hit chance, and then had her cast "slay living", which would make her next hit slay any living thing, if they fail a save versus spell. So this tiny elf walked up to the huge dragon, letting out her fierce war cry: "I.... I won't let you hurt my friends!", thumping the dragon with her mace; and the dragon failed the spell save and dropped dead on the spot. 🤣

[@megamike15]

i feeel the baldurs gate series is very replayable. there is stuff you willl misss like character quests and banters. and there are so many mods that the amount of party combinations becomes very high.

[@corax86]

I got the impression that you missed one thing. There are 3 (not 2) endings: 1. Become a mortal 2. Become a good god 3. Become an evil god

[@megamike15]

good god / evil god depends on what you tell the solar after you do each gate. so even if your playing a lawful good character with 20 rep you can get the evil god ending if you wanted.

[@0kaj8]

you didnt do the watcher keeps boss??!! best fight in all of bg

[@Caspenar]

Finally someone aprreciates me

[@accordDEon]

You can't complain the taking down of the characters on the one, because they are ALL in BG 2. Quayle for example is the uncle of Aerie, you can find Ajantis that you kill from your hand on Windspear etc etc, all of them can be found, you just have to pay attention, I think it is a huge easter egg from this game that I love so much.

[@nwowarlightchannel3184]

I have used in that game some of the cheesiest tactics ever. For example, isolating the enemy mage and forcing him to use all his spells against my mage that has been transformed into a mustard jelly. Then sending the rest of my troops on him when he had depleted all his spells against my invulnerable mustard jelly mage lol.

[@martixy2]

4:00 I was drinking water at the time. You made me choke and almost die there. As a veteran AD&D and 3.5e player(I DM a 3.5 session every week), it is endlessly entertaining watching you stumble thru the incredibly complex mechanics. Another reason I'm still on 3.5e instead of moving on to 5e.

[@williethenerfherder2193]

3.5 cleric is so awesome.

[@999YCM]

Hey @ChrisDavis! You must gather your party before venturing forth! Ha! Gotcha!

[@ThePolistiren]

Not sure about the comments of romance. It doesn't make much sense to have every character romanceable. The biggest joke in that regard was Mass Effect 3 where everyone was bisexual and ok with every alien race. It makes for much better writing for characters to be characters and not fanfic material, like I'm playing a dating sim. I would consider forcing other character into relationships as player choice.

[@megamike15]

that was da 2. besides liara there were not that many bi romances in mass effect.

[@Peter_Schiavo]

I started playing BG and all of the subsequent expansions and the sequel as they were released. My greatest success against vampires was a result of crowd control. One character is drain-proof. Undead hunter or magic items or spells. Position them at a bottleneck. Everybody else uses missile weapons.

[@MarioHunter1]

enraged berserker should murder them in the blink of an eye