Baldur's Gate 3 - How BG3 Could Connect To The Previous Games

[@lersayilify]

Personally, I hope it has as little to do with the canon ending of the Bhaalspawn saga as possible. I'm a very much non proud owner of the Baldurs Gate books, and hate Abdel and his story with a fiery passion. The books (and by extension the character) is just badly written, and does no justice to the games. Wasn't a fan of the events in the adventure module either.

[@LMoftheCoast]

As I’ve already said elsewhere, despite issues with Siege of Dragonspear, I will give Beamdog all the Kudos for decanonising those novels. Sure, Abdel is still canonically CHARNAME, and gives up his Bhaalspawn essence, but with Siege’s inclusion into the overall canon of the Forgotten Realms, most of the characters revert back to ones closer to those found within the original games, and not the monstrosities found within those novels. We are still stuck with the ending of the Bhaalspawn saga thanks to Murder in Baldur’s Gate, but at least the characters I fell in love with are back to being themselves.

[@Theodore5of5]

Yeah I'm with you. I think bg3 would join a proud tradition of great rpg sequels only related to their predecessors in name (looking at you neverwinter nights 2)

[@zennim125]

i really like the idea of a good aligned spawn ascending to godhood noah gervais said something like "have you not murdered but also done good on your journey? would it be so bad to have god of murder that cares about motive?" (paraphrasing)

[@SamsButterscotch]

I have a feeling that BG3 will be game of the year, or at least RPG of the year, whenever it comes out. Playing through its early access for a handful of (cherished) hours made it easily my most anticipated rpg in years.

[@kirkvanallen5202]

@@SamBrockmann I’d disagree that dos2 has a bad story. The story and writing is fair to good while the gameplay was awesome. This is how I see the game.

[@kirkvanallen5202]

@@SamBrockmann I’m glad you went with the edgy opinion enjoy it.

[@kirkvanallen5202]

@@SamBrockmann I think considering that the game will go down as a classic and the best cRPG of the decade has already done enough to prove you’re just being a bit disingenuous. You can think parts of the story were silly or could have been done better but as I said the story and writing were fair to good consistently through the entire thing. Critics and consumers alike love the game for a lot of different reasons and story and writing turns up as being one of them consistently. I’m not even sitting here saying story wise it was a masterpiece but what you think of it seems to just be an uninformed or biased opinion because you disliked some decisions the game made. Seems like a lot of the things you spoke about have more to do with you disliking how the world interacted with you or itself and not the writing or story itself. I gave you a pretty good faith take that I personally thought the story was fair to good through the experience why go on about how I missed plot holes and all this other garbage? I’m not sure if you’re aware but I’m pretty sure the vast majority of games and even movies have plot holes you can tear apart. As for tone of the game, seems many people liked it or didn’t mind it so again your or my opinion aren’t wrong in that regard the tone that the writing took on doesn’t make it a bad story or a good story. There’s plenty of movies and games with plots I’m just not super into or don’t particularly find interesting that are still regarded as well written and good stories. I don’t say they are objectively terrible because my opinion trumps all I honestly usually see what the consensus is on said thing and say yeah it was probably pretty good but personally I wasn’t into it because it didn’t appeal to me.

[@GregorSamsa-nj1rg]

@wildernessWOODELF Don't feed the troll

[@hexen2801]

Mind Flayers also show up in some side quests in BG1 and BG2, in BG2 speciffically you even find out that a mind flayer using a glamour to pass as a human is being hunted by a Githyanki.

[@Ahmiran]

THAT'S the canon ending to the Bhaalspawn saga? That is Disney level bad fan fic.

[@Nalier]

Agreed. Forgotten Reams novels were never good. But those based on baldur's gate series were... mythic level of bad writing (and style)

[@lucasbarros8540]

@@Nalier Nah, salvatore's novels are good

[@davidfishguy]

So much quality content on this channel. Hope you get more subs and success in the future.

[@edh9999]

The Sword Coast Adventures book for the TTRPG makes mention of the Bhaalspawn-crisis, about 100 years or so in the past, so they are at least tangentially related canon-wise.

[@Blasted2Oblivion]

I always like the idea that I have set my character up for either a long and happy life or actual immortality. It makes me feel better in those rare moments where I am so invested that I forget it isn't a real person.

[@TheHowiehere]

Your video's and production are fantastic mate. Keep up the great work and the views will come!

[@YouTubdotCub]

Also even though he's a human, Minsc is likely to feature. There was a statue of Minsc and Boo in Baldur's Gate for decades that even the Hero of Baldur's Gate thought was just a statue and within the last 10 years before the events of BG3 he was unpetrified and turned out it was just actually Minsc and Boo, petrified for decades and decades. Minsc is now the adventurer stepdad of a group of young adventurers and I doubt he'll be a companion but him and his crew will no doubt make a cameo appearance.

[@jamesonsan8539]

As always appreciate your videos so much. Here though particularly I am so grateful how well you sign-posted it. I was like well I know some spoilers, but havent finished the game I can handle some I suppose as Im super curious. 2 minutes in "So now lets talk about the ending of BG2"...lol pause , comment, then Ill come back when i finish BG2 (played many hours back when it first came out, but have forgotten it entirely (last thing i remember is snowy mountains and a dragon in a cave but nothing in between hahaha) and on now on my 1st proper attempt to finish the game).

[@Molimo95]

i won't accept any canon ending for bg2. i don't give a shit what some hack wrote years after the games in some shitty book. every mayor rpg series (including bg) has some form of savegame import and i don't think it's unfair to hold larian to that standard. they simply can't claim to care about fans of the first 2 games and then go and disregard all the choices we made while playing them.

[@FrostyThundertrod]

My BG2 character had a child with Aire and chose to become a good god. I am playing bg 3 has that half elf child

[@FrostyThundertrod]

@@SamBrockmann lord of murder was Bals title his domain is death lies and deceit Cyric hold lies and deceit Kelemvor took death from Cyric. So my character became a lesser god under Kelemvor with the domain execution and self defense

[@orarinnsnorrason4614]

The most logical thing they could do is to tie Bhaal to the story plus the Mind Flayers and they're motives.

[@somnsfabula7]

How tf a mere bhalspawn defeated the HERO OF BALDUR'S GATE?? We're talking about one of the most experienced and powerful mortals in the region, even without his bloodline powers.

[@MortismalGaming]

Ambushed during a speech by Viekang who goes Slayer during the fight.

[@franksteele2262]

TOB ending Solar basically now that protagonist will return a mortal that the essence would be hidden forever more.

[@notsosmartguy6254]

They should have done what dragon age did with the Hero of Ferelden. Keep them vague enough in dialogue but also keep em relevant

[@TheGrunaldi]

That's my only problem with BG3 ... ... if BG3 will connect with Bhaal as a main point in the story (if it will be just side quest or off mention somewhere it would count for me) I will change sides and support this game and sing praises. But I don't count on it ... Larian studio does not seems 2 be interested in doing a sequel (imo) but a new clean slate game with new original story , with would be fine ... if it wasn't BG 3.

[@big_sis_moon]

Yes I agree, however I expect an entirely seperate game with a handful of easter eggs that they can point to as an excuse as to why they used the IP, which, imo, does not a Baldur's Gate game make.

[@jolourquico6698]

You didn't mention the Illithid Correspondence note found in the Athkatla Mind Flayer den

[@MortismalGaming]

I mentioned the den and the note doesn't give any specifics really beyond the obvious

[@big_sis_moon]

How does expanding on a tiny side quest with no known tie ins to the main plot make it a Baldur's Gate game? Imho throwing a handful of easter eggs at the fanbase is not enough to make it a sequel to the original Baldur's Gate games

[@kenfrmcape2355]

The connection is Boo is the BBEG. You find out Boo has been pulling the strings since BG1.

[@shailynx9626]

We couldn't see it because he went for the eyes

[@KiazaKadaj]

from data mining many many things are going to be included from the old games and current dnd stuff like avernus. this is a sequel taking place only 100 years after the events of the last game and it’s set in a fantasy world so 100 years is really not much.

[@Nalier]

tbh I think that mindflayers from bg2 are unrelated. Illithids are a staple of Underdark adventuring, so it was obvious they were included in that portion of bg2 storyline.

[@MortismalGaming]

Oh sure, I agree, my point was that's a seemingly unrelated detail they could easily write in all sorts of stuff for

[@Nalier]

@@MortismalGaming Yeah, I get that. For me, it's just too thin. But I agree that a good writer could make that work

[@Banefane]

I don't like Abdel, because in the books the story is too skewed compared to the games.

[@LMoftheCoast]

While I have many issues with Siege of Dragonspear (mostly around key writers being more focused on activism rather than writing a good expansion that has the timeless feel of BG1&2) one thing I will 100% thank Beamdog for is decanonising those awful novels. Sure, the basic events of the Bhaalspawn saga still happen the same as those novels… Abdel being CHARNAME, and giving up the powers at the end, but it reverts all the characters back to being similar to the ones found in the game. Minsc is no longer a red headed idiot that works at the Copper Coronet, Jaheira is no longer a terrible example of a screeching damsel in distress, and Imoen isn’t suddenly a lesbian because the writer couldn’t find a way to off her without her becoming infatuated with her murderer while Abdel was off doing something else. What we have now is much better and much more faithful to the games.

[@LMoftheCoast]

@@SamBrockmann yes, we were talking the novels.

[@Arcling]

It caused some controversy among fans that this game is called BG3, without direct connection to Bhaalspawn saga (well, other than it not having a real time combat). Perhaps they were wrong and there will be more connections than they expected. Hopefully it won't invalidate players' protagonist. So far, I don't like companions very much, but maybe this will change further into the story. They are all way too cocky, and I don't mind if some companions are a bit evil, but current party lacks someone more balanced, it could use more variety (and no dwarf companion?!). There could have been a more polite, calm and scheming character among them as well.

[@Bimon1234567]

Taking that awful canon as a basis for BG3 would be a very bad decision. I am hoping that Larian will use the separation between PnP and VG to completely ignore the canon ending.

[@michaelcullinane3924]

The concept of Canon when related to media entertainment such as Baldur's Gate doesn't make sense to me. Canon originally meant do you consider this so true that it is worth dying over. Baldur's Gate's storyline did end well enough in Throne of Bhaal. Beyond that seems like grasping for straws, kind of like how effectively speaking Terminator 2 is a good enough end point. If they can get enough people to buy Terminator 74 or Baldur's Gate 12 good for them, but I won't play as I'd rather explore completed series than things being stretched out like Gumby. That said I do like your videos and get your points. Keep up the good work.

[@awesome27677]

they did say it was hundreds of years after the events of two.

[@andrewlakhach4806]

Not hundreds, just one hundred. All elfs (lifespan is up to 750-900 years), dwarfs (250-350) e.t.c. can still be alive. Minsc and Boo canonically is alive too due to the fact that Minsc was turned in to a stone all this time.

[@Morpheus-ux6kx]

I want to see my son that I had with viconia.

[@KarlWinterling]

The most popular version of D&D is 3.5 because it has the most published content available and Pathfinder 1e is backwards compatible with it. I think they've been a little slow to release 5e content because 5e players tend to be younger and WOTC doesn't want to alienate older players with content that diverges too much from 3.5 sourcebooks. Including novels and video games as "canon" would make everything way too complicated. Disney decided that *everything* in all new Star Wars releases is canon and they have around 10,000 hours of planned streaming content targeted at different demographic groups. It's a huge mess. Giving Larian some leeway to write BG3's story was probably the right call. The D&D sourcebooks exist more as something you can adapt content from for your campaign. There wouldn't be as much of a controversy if WOTC hadn't broken backwards compatibility with older sourcebooks.

[@Para2normal]

I think there was a lot more published for 2Ed tbh, I used to have mostly FR and Ravenloft setting as well as all the supplement core books and novels. At a guess TSR published in the region of 200+ books/supplements for 2Ed over the years. I miss those books, they were sold at a reasonable price and while they didn't always fit the campaign I was involved with there was usually something, and they gave me something enjoyable to read when I was working nights as a Security Officer :).

[@KarlWinterling]

I think 3.5 was mainly viewed as an improvement over previous versions and most fans saw WOTC as a better company than TSR. At least lots of people switched to it and there wasn't much of a backlash.

[@justinfenton9983]

Personally I just find the whole effort very cynical. WotC was pretty shitty about BG1 and BG2 for a while because they were considered TSR games. But after 20 years the most respected D&D games are the Baldur's Gate games and Planescape. Two games WotC ruined the lore surrounding them. It is their property to do with what they will and I certainly don't blame Larian who are admittedly huge fans of those early D&D games. But BG3 is simply cashing in on a legacy neither party had a hand in. I do not understand why they couldn't of just let Larian make their own story within Forgotten Realms. They are too good to be essentially beamdog and chasing another companies shadow. And as far as WoTC is concerned maybe if they spent half as much energy on new ideas instead of chasing the diminishing returns of what came before from better developers they wouldn't be loosing market share to literally everything else out there right now.

[@Maniak-e8b]

how it can connect? eff all, BG3 simply a reskinned DOS game minus the lore of course am still hugely disapointed larian went that route being lazy rather then building upon BG2 "game play" call me bitter am just a huge fan of BG2

[@LMoftheCoast]

You’re bitter my dude. Larian Studios are doing a great job with BG3 so far. They have also been taking and implementing lots of player feedback. Sure, the game is built off of the DOS2 engine, so there is going to be a certain amount of crossover with game mechanics, but they have been toning down a lot of the more blatant ones, and while they won’t be changing to a real time with pause system like BG1&2, it is starting to come together now in Early Access with it’s own feel. As far as the plot goes, yeah, there is not going to be a huge amount of integration with the Bhaalspawn saga itself, but from the hints in the story we have so far, The Dead Three (Bhaal, being one of) seem to be deeply intwined into the plot. There’s also some datamined spoilers around, which I won’t share, aside to say that there is at least one familiar face from the Bhaalspawn saga that is returning. Look, as someone who bought the First Baldur’s Gate game way back when on release day (and still have my 5 CD edition and manual knocking around) I understand your frustrations with some of the changes that Larian initially made to the gameplay mechanics, but you just need to watch the team in the live streams, and videos they produce. This isn’t a team that are just banking on the name. They are obviously passionate about,and have a deep love for D&D and the Baldur’s Gate franchise. They really do seem to be willing to listen and change the game to some extent to appease us older players

[@belhaddim5116]

Thx bro you saved me the writting. Absolutely agree, this game is DOS3 in the frogotten realms. Very disapointing (don't get me wrong, DOS are great games, but this is not a real BG game, as said before, is just a DOS in disguise).

[@magmakojote1663]

@@belhaddim5116 you played the early access? Because when I do, it feels not at all like DOS2. And it's not just the setting, but also the characters and the way you interact with them, it's the map, the atmosphere and the music. It's all so much distinct from DOS2, so I am always so confused by these comparisons. They do not make any sense after playing the EA.

[@pogrebnik1]

@@magmakojote1663 I played it and I agree it doesn't feel like DOS2, however, it also does not feel like Baldur's gate whatsoever. I could suffer through the changes in mechanics but the writing itself and especially the characters are nowhere near OG Baldur's gate writing, this game is BG in name only, coming from someone with over 20k hours in the BG series and having played everything from Larian ever since they were posting flash games on Kongregate. The reality is that they hijacked this IP and however good their intentions, they don't have the skill to emulate original BG, nor are they really trying to because they're well aware of that.

[@onatgz]

first.

[@damiannwd450]

Damn this is sad. Shitty connection AF. Thanks for posting this. So Divinity Baldur's Gate does not sound good.