Band of Brothers - Mutiny

[@DixieRebel1-8-6-1]

In reality, Captain Winters found out and advised them not to do it. For the first and only time, they ignored him and did it anyway.

[@johnharris6655]

This was the 2nd time in 2 days that Sobel brought Winters up on Charges. Major Strayer dismissed the first charges so by the 2nd time the NCOs had enough.

[@samsonguy10k]

@@johnharris6655 It wasn't just about Sobel's disrespect and harassment of Winters, though that was indeed a factor. Sobel's disgusting performance in the field exercises showed the men that when they went into battle, Sobel was going to get them killed with nothing to show for it. Sobel was a fantastic trainer if not an appealing person. But he was not fit to be a field commander. It's sad that it took these men risking their careers and lives to get that point across to Colonel Sink and the other higher-ups, but it was either that or they would all die for nothing.

[@ov1994]

@@samsonguy10k And those sergeants were just very lucky not to get shot. They mutinied in the right time and in the right place.

[@trollomega3623]

Sink often made threats, but they wouldn’t have been shot anyways. It was rare for the US to execute its own for non capital crimes. The only case since WW2 was Eddie Slovik

[@trollomega3623]

*since the civil war

[@Dreez76]

They saluted Winters due to respect. They saluted Sobel because they had to...

[@VT401]

Dreez76 Very nicely said.

[@rhino2960]

Dreez76 sobel was a damn good drill instructor, but a piss poor combat leader. from what i can tell he was in it for the wrong reasons, he wasn't looking to keep his men alive and become their leader, he was looking for praise from his superiors for a job well done, and when he didn't get it, or when someone else was praised along side him, he took it out on his men.

[@ffjsb]

+rhino2960 Company commanders aren't drill instructors, NCO's are. Sobel was an administrator who micro managed, and poorly at that. You're correct about his motivation though.

[@IELTSguru1120]

+ffjsb Typical combat officer punishing those below him to try and advance his own career. Obviously backfired though

[@ffjsb]

+Avichai Korn Sobel was HARDLY typical. The majority of officers I've known are at least average to decent. A few were outstanding. Only a few were morons.

[@randyream6774]

When they walk by Winters at the end and salute him. It goes to show how much more respect he had than Sobel among the men of easy company

[@Ares99999]

Being saluted by mutineers is by no means something to be proud of.

[@danortiz]

they were no cowards, they still fought and many died in Europe. Mutineers or not, I would be god damn proud if those soldier salute me.

[@Ares99999]

My great-grandfather fought in WW1 AND WW2. He was no fan of mutineers.

[@danortiz]

He may have his reasons. But not you nor me, fought there. So we don`t have the right to judge them. Like I said, I would be honored and proud if those men salute me.

[@Ares99999]

But HE fought there, HE did have a right to judge them, and HE disagreed with mutiny as a general rule. He probably would have understood what they did in that context, but its unlikely he'd have liked it.

[@CognizantCheddar]

For those curious (I looked it up): Harris was allowed to transfer back into Easy just before the D-Day jump. He volunteered to be a Pathfinder, and was killed by a sniper at Carentan. Ranney participated in the Brecourt Manor Assault (i.e. the attack on the German howitzers), and was awarded a Bronze Star. He was promoted back to Sergeant after Normandy; Winters in his memoirs held Ranney in great esteem. Ranney participated in Operation Market Garden, but accidentally shot himself with a pistol when cleaning it two weeks into the operation, and was evacuated. This marked the end of his military service. Ranney organized Easy Company's reunions after the war, and is the man who wrote the famous "company of heroes" quote in a 1982 letter to Winters. I looked this stuff up because I couldn't recall seeing Harris or Ranney again in the miniseries.

[@SantomPh]

Should empty a gun while cleaning it, no? Rather sloppy for a paratrooper

[@kbanghart]

@@SantomPh Hoobler also died by his own hand, when his captured German Luger accidentally went off... He had it stuck in his waist. you can say the same thing about him, but remember this was combat.

[@brndnwilks]

Good man, saved me the time to look it up myself. I assumed as much, but you never know. Army bonds are funny that way.

[@vonSoest]

SantomPh rather sloppy for a 12 year old.

[@Peoples_Republic_of_Devonshire]

@@shyadeny they were the ring leaders

[@paulm.2187]

Actually, Sobel's reassignment saved him from getting killed on the plane Lt.Meehan was on.

[@salag13]

Boon Huang Yeah that's a really good point.

[@falcon3268]

+Boon Huang or from being shot by the men in the same plane as the SOB considering that everyone knew that Sobel was only fit as a drill instructor never as a company leader.

[@Ares99999]

So the men would have been court-martialed and shot. You realize that disliking Sobel DIDN'T give them the right to KILL a FELLOW SOLDIER?

[@falcon3268]

ummm would u say the samething if that jerk took u into battle and his lack of leadership, map reading, etc. would more likely to get you killed. Considering that they could've walked away from Sobel if they landed and let him get killed either way I doubt they would've stayed with him

[@KoeSeer]

in WW1, some British NCO killed their own Company leader (whose mostly killed for being an asshole) with German's gun, and whole company would agree that he was shot by a stray bullet.

[@king_james_1611_legion]

I believe at heart Colonel Sink understood why the NCO’s did what they did and was in reality just going through the motions and just handing out a few demotions and transfers to keep General Eisenhower and the big wigs from causing a stink.

[@claytonwhitman2611]

Col Sink knew, he was a great CO, but also military discipline must be maintained especially in a front line combat unit during war. He did what was necessary, to maintain order, and not play favorites. Granted, everyone knew Cpt Sobel was a first rate asshole, and everyone hated him. BUT, it was that hatred that united Easy company, that shared torturous experiences in training that molded Easy Company into one of the best, if not THE BEST, Airborne Infantry companies in the war, and to date. I am an 82nd, 505th trooper myself, however no one can deny that Easy Co was the best. There were better Regiments, I think, but at the company level I don't believe any other company came close. And Easy Company MADE their Regiment into what it was, they led their Regiment throughout the war. They were truly a Company of Heroes. All of that aside, Col Sink had no choice but to slap that mutiny down. He could have done a lot more, a lot worse could have happened, but he did "enough" given the seriousness of the events, while still attempting to preserve as much of the respect and experience and ability of the unit as possible, so as to give them the best chance in combat possible. That's a hard line to follow. Just my thoughts on that.

[@radicalxg8282]

@@claytonwhitman2611 Captain Sobel trained one if not the best company of U.S paratroopers of its time he really should be remembered and receive praise for it, however his lack of situational awareness and wrong tactical decisions on the field really was the final nail on a company that already didnt trusted him due to his pettiness leading it, the man wasnt really fit for field command, discipline is paramount but so unit cohesion and in order to maintain it Colonel Sink made the best decision of keeping him doing what he does best by training people while replacing him with another more capable. A mutiny and subsequent decision that saved his life since he would have died on Meehan's plane should have stayed in command, seems that no matter the outcome court martial or not destiny wanted Major Winters as the one in charge of Easy Company.

[@WilliamKing-hf8lc]

@@claytonwhitman2611 Col. Sink did this to protect the integrity of his regiment. Any other action would have demoralized his regiment!

[@cakecakeham5823]

It's virtually impossible for a commander to hold their hands up and say "alright boys, fair cop". They absolutely have to fire someone out of a cannon, because the minute word gets around (and it would) then they would be facing similar actions for a variety of lesser causes. The severity of this is the reason it passed. Sink couldn't deny there was a problem, but he sure as hell couldn't "agree" with the mutineers. That's just the way it is for the forces, I think.

[@The1980Philip]

@@radicalxg8282 "Captain Sobel trained one if not the best company of U.S paratroopers of its time he really should be remembered and receive praise for it" Post hoc ergo propter hoc (Latin: 'after this, therefore because of this') is an informal fallacy that states: "Since event Y followed event X, event Y must have been caused by event X." It is often shortened simply to post hoc fallacy. Experts agree that the survivors of E-company probably subconsciously decided to paint a kinder picture of Sobel after finding out how he had ended up after that war, and that he had likely been a troubled individual during the war. The truth is that there is no evidence that Sobel's methods were the causal agent in making E-company any better. Quite the opposite. They were probably better DESPITE his training.

[@danschneider9921]

My dad was in Nam 68-69 and after watching this series he told me that they had a platoon leader just like Sobel. Arrogant, incompetent a true martinet whose only real experience was a few years in the ROTC. His words to me were "We went out on an ambush one day and he didn't come back"....I knew what he meant without him having to say anything more.

[@nocturnalrecluse1216]

Damn. They fragged his ass, huh?

[@bigboi4269]

His ass got fragged.

[@dougferguson8548]

Niedermeyer?

[@johnfoley4892]

Friendly fire 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👍

[@alexblack6421]

"Now you cut that fence and get this platoon on the move!"

[@csxfloridafunnelrailfan3065]

Alex Black did major Horton join us? Lol

[@kevinhammond2361]

@@csxfloridafunnelrailfan3065 "Does a wild bear sh*t in the woods, son?" : )

[@kbanghart]

"major Horton told you to do this?" "Yes sir" "Major Horton told you to cut the fence." "Yes he did". Some of that may be incorrect, but that's the gist... I always think of Horton hears a Who when I hear those lines 😂

[@km-kl3lg]

@@kbanghart That long pause from Strayer after he freakin asked Sobel three times if Horton gave that order..."Major Horton is on leave. In London..Somebody get these cows out of here!" Lmao!

[@kbanghart]

@@km-kl3lg omg yes, that was great.

[@unsexynstupid]

The One Where the NCO's Mutiny Against Ross

[@freespirit906]

unsexynstupid They were on a break!!!!!!!

[@kbanghart]

@Justin Time as successful as his career has been, it's not a bad label.

[@leakypfaucet]

FUCK

[@terrytk9398]

unsexynstupid 😀

[@kevinflaherty7592]

Thank you for your help.i was wondering that myself

[@mohanicus]

still to this day in 2020 this is still one of the absolute best shows ever made.... the book is absolutely amazing

[@TheLinkIsLost]

Haven’t read the book yet, unfortunately. But I do watch this show atleast twice a year.

[@joshoconner7448]

Yea it’s the best

[@jerryc2709]

Started reading it last night. The HOB series was the best series EVER produced on tv. Only series that came remotely close was Chernobyl and finished the book on it a week ago.

[@LordVader1094]

@@jerryc2709 Generation Kill is at least equal imo

[@jerryc2709]

@@LordVader1094 Gonna have to check it out LV.

[@gino14]

You might be a terrible officer if... 1) ALL of your NCOs denounce you 2) See above.

[@maxxmatlock212]

@Gerry Stevens Strike

[@Arbeedubya]

@Gerry Stevens Dye is still alive. Were you perhaps thinking of the late R Lee Ermey?

[@Arbeedubya]

If I had been Sink, one or two disgruntled NCO's wouldn't have been anything to worry about, but the fact that every NCO under Sobel's command considered him an idiot whose incompetence could have cost lives in combat would have been taken into consideration. I believe it was the manner in which they presented their concerns and not that those concerns existed that pissed him off so much.

[@mijreed]

NCOs - the backbone of an army

[@Frankensteins_Highboy]

Dale Dye is still alive Warriors Inc is still a big part of military movies

[@petermensi5107]

I Can't begin to understand the amount of balls this took them.

[@pepecohetes492]

It seems Sobel was so incompetent, the thought of dying because of his lack of leadership was enough to grow the balls to do this.

[@salag13]

In their minds it was choosing to risk a firing squad or face certain death with Sobel since he was a terrible combat leader. The didn't really have anything to lose if you think about it.

[@tspencer227]

It was also an act of protecting the junior soldiers under them.

[@litorres4125]

tspencer227 they’re good NCOs

[@hocadidilyocuttCAP]

4

[@perniciousreaper4393]

The abrupt cut after Lipton says "good luck" to Sink saying "I ought to have you all shot" always cracks me up. They edited that so well.

[@istvansipos9940]

becoming a private was painful for Tommy, so he went to London and tried his luck as assistant manager for illegal boxing

[@BFMachine]

lol shut up. I hear his parents named him after a gun.

[@evolru77ian30]

I believe they names him after a belly dancer.

[@alanmjohnson]

I thought it was a ballet dancer.

[@JnEricsonx]

That would have worked sadly only if BOB was made before Snatch. :) I did hear he tried his hand at bootlegging though.

[@Testosterooster]

Someone still reminds him of ww2, saying things like "before zee Germans get here" and whatnot.

[@Loiyaboy]

In this case, they not only saluted the rank, they saluted the man.

[@Spacegoat92]

2:27 Col Sink is like that school principal who knows your smart ass comment against your teacher was right but also still has to punish you and will crack up laughing as soon as you leave his office...

[@soupafi]

Soebel getting fired saved his life

[@Spacegoat92]

@@soupafiThat it did...

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

Winters: "What the hell did they just do?" .

[@mikaku]

Oh, he knew...

[@mrgone658]

@@mikaku Or, at least he had an idea of what they just did.

[@BradyKaynee]

Actuality Winters met up with them before they turned in their mutiny letters and asked them not to do it because it is mutiny.

[@raylast3873]

„Which leaves me no choice but to spare yar lives“ Lipton: *severe disappointment*

[@mikaku]

So basically, if you volunteer for war during wartime, but after doing some training you wish to resign, you may get shot?

[@NovemberSky3]

All the men of easy company hated sobel, but if I remember correctly from the book, when interviewed, they said to a man "Captain sobel made easy company" Guarnerre actually sought out sobel after the war, and found out that he had deep mental problems, part of the reason why he was so bitter to the men of Easy. But the fact of the matter is, Easy would never have been as good and close as they where without Captain Sobel.

[@mohammadikhsan2963]

NovemberSky3 that's true! but it would have been better if sobel was a NCO. From what i see, sobel is more of a sergeant major type with the enforcement of discipline and all. would be better if winters was CO of easy and Sobel was their NCO. agree?

[@unsexynstupid]

Very good analysis Mohammad. Sobel never should have been a commissioned officer - he had no idea how to lead men into battle. He would have made one heck of a drill seargent however!

[@NovemberSky3]

Mohammad Ikhsan it's really hard to say how it would've worked out if Sobel was an NCO, I have a feeling it wouldn't of worked just because the men would've still hated him with a passion, but the other NCOs such as Lipton where loved with a passion

[@mohammadikhsan2963]

NovemberSky3​ I feel that it would worked just fine. This is because in the military you need at least one of the commanders to be the 'bad' guy. Lipton was more of a welfare guy while winters was straightforward and realistic. Without anyone being the enforcer, i think troops would be complacent and it will be very difficult to get them moving. I have served in the combat unit for at least a year and that is what i realised. Can't have all commanders being the good guy

[@NovemberSky3]

Mohammad Ikhsan I can understand where you come from, and it is near impossible to disagree with experience as you have stated that you have, but surely you don't mean as bad as the men mutinying against them and considering shooting the man when they enter combat. Sobel had no sense to what to do in combat situations as Seen in training, running around shouting Hi Ho silver, and abandoning a perfectly good ambush position on a exercise

[@The2ndFirst]

Moved out in good order. Best mutiny ever.

[@johnharris6655]

Soebel tried to Court Martial Winters Twice. Major Strayer dismissed the first charges, the next day, Soebel charged him for another offense.. That is when the NCO's resigned, Sink Moved Winters to Battalion head quarters to get him away from Soebel while Sink had to figure out how to solve this mess. In the end he transferred Soebel.

[@nyy190343]

I always liked that quick nod at 3:04...basically saying "you can probably guess what we just did, we're with you boss"

[@suhailbhat1996]

Actually by risking their own lives these people saved so many lives.

[@76JStucki]

Including Sobel's, ironically.

[@agustinemoreno8227]

Lipton was right. Mutiny is a serious offense, crime punishable by death. The same reason strayer had sobel transferred to another position

[@DONUTBUZZCUT]

That was Sink not Strayer

[@johnargus9081]

Was it mutiny to simply say you no longer wished to be a sergeant? I doubt it. It wasn't disobeying any order or command.

[@76JStucki]

Yes, it is absolutely mutiny. You are confusing mutiny with failure to obey orders. Simply failing to obey an order is bad, but it carries a wide range of penalties depending on the judgement of the officer in question. Mutiny is the general refusal to recognize the authority of a commander and is a very serious problem for the entire structure of the armed forces. Failure to obey= "I did not follow that order." Mutiny= "I will not follow ANY of your orders."

[@SantomPh]

@@johnargus9081 that is a mutiny as they are conspiring to act against orders and subvert their C.O's authority. Doing it in writing saved them from even worse punishment at least.

[@TheVergile]

bullcrap. i dont know about that time but nowadays no court would accept someone resigning their NCO position/asking for a transfer/pointing out incompetence as mutiny. The problem is that they collaborated in this. If they were clever they would have handed in their piece of paper at different times and with slightly different wordings. While doing it as a group made them look bad it still is not enough to qualify for mutiny. Asking for a change in position is not the same as planning to disobey orders or uproot the chain of command. Lipton reacted the way he did to make an example of them, to give them a fair judgement.

[@MrMattykuk]

Here's a cool thing I was the young lad taking the pots off the back of the truck ! Oh the memories! 2.40

[@mad-k6q]

matthew kaye and the low pay? What about the takes and did it hurt your back?

[@blazinpuffs]

That's pretty damn cool.

[@maximilianfranz2158]

matthew kaye awesome

[@amihan99]

Proof men.

[@MrMattykuk]

@@mad-k6q there was about ten takes and the ground was stone.i had to out that pan down as quiet as possible...

[@boxta1311]

For anyone who’s interested these scenes were filmed in a mini Manor House in the village of Hambleden Buckinghamshire, England. Lovely little village in the chiltern hills if you ever get the chance to visit. Although you can’t get into the house you can see into it from the outside and look around the surrounding roads where a lot of this and other scenes were filmed. Couple of nice walks and pubs in the area too...

[@boxta1311]

Not the outside shots no, Hambleden is a popular spot for lots of filming for ‘classic old English village’ type films/dramas

[@therickman1990]

Winters was pulled of Easy to figure out the court-martial that he requested so Sobel would make the jump with Easy, which they didn't want. They muted. Sobel didn't know why. I'm confident the higher-ups damn well knew why did they what they did. They transfered Sobel out to go and train doctors and nursus at the jumpschool at Chelton Folia. Winters was back on, and Meehan replaced Sobel. Meehan died in the plane along with his squad, so Winters was back in to lead Easy. I'm pretty sure that's how it went.

[@secondcavalry9667]

NCOs are the key people in any outfit. The NCOs in my cavalry unit were the ones that made things run smoothly. As a Lieutenant, I would have been lost without them.

[@noerosas7691]

Have to say that salute to the colonel was crisp.

[@jimharper2180]

In this moment, Lipton briefly displayed the kind of leadership that he exemplified at Bastogne.

[@timothyball3144]

Also, the kind of leadership that Spiers talks about in the church.

[@johnseldow3573]

Can’t stop watching Band oF Brothers , even in 2021

[@dmkappa62]

This is a great example of everyday life. Incompetent people get ahead somehow and we the plebs have to follow and obey them. If they didn’t do what they did id say many lives would have been sacrificed. See it everyday in the workplace!

[@Brecconable]

That is one of the main reasons I am getting out of my current job.

[@claymac7895]

They were never going to execute the men.. He wasn’t even that mad. I’m sure deep down he was proud of the men for standing up for their CO. The “giit” at the end told it all.. Like a father playfully telling his son to move along.. Giit!

[@jonathanlee5314]

Plus they are such fine soldiers you can't help but to admire the salutes in perfect unison :)

[@zygas25]

Sink as did everyone else knew that while sobel was a great trainer, was shit at leading men into combat. So when not only with the mutiny happening but also the court martial he had to fix the situation. So he had sobel shuffled out which led to the court martial being rescinded. He only sacked 1 and demoted the other one, knowing had he either shot or tossed all the nco would screw up plans already in motion with the coming invasion.

[@scarling9367]

​@@zygas25 I suspect the two receiving demotion were probably the lowest performers or already on thin ice. My Chief used to rotate people to engine room lower level like that. He didn't want people to get complacent.

[@larky368]

No..he was pissed off. Just as Dad would be when he got home from a hard days work and was told that his son got into some trouble and he had to deal with it when all he wanted was to relax on the couch.

[@Brecconable]

@@scarling9367 Ranney was a good soldier but he kept getting promoted and demoted all the time until Winters took over E Company. Harris - the one that was transferred - went back to the 506 as a Pathfinder but was killed at Carentan.

[@alvisstalwart925]

I always think good on these guys for sticking up for their fellow troops. Armies are supposed to work together and look out for each other, especially when the fire is inside the house.

[@hendrikw388]

These guys had some freaken balls.

[@drewstar412]

Back when guys had balls to stand up to bullies and guys who would get them killed. Too bad so many of those no longer serve, since it seems there are more bad leadership when I served.

[@davecrupel2817]

The way they saw it, Either they would be shot upon the firing line, or they'd follow an incompetant boss (NOT leader) like Sobel into combat, and they and the entire company would die. A hard choice to make. But an honorable one.

[@mikeb9814]

This is an amazing scene, these guys risked everything for what they felt was right!

[@MrScottmonster]

this action saved so many lives in the long run

[@abcdefghijkl140]

"We could be put in front of a firing squad"-- Just to clarify, while for the CO's depicted that would have been a very plausible and serious concern, the US military only executed ONE soldier in WW2 for desertion. The Americans deserve a massive amount of praise and respect for this.

[@wetlettuce4768]

That's actually quite surprising considering the US had nearly 50,000 deserters during WW2

[@mattwest7262]

There was probably so many because they knew they wouldn't get shot

[@kbanghart]

@George Mathew I don't think it was ever proven. Maybe witnessed, and that's a big maybe, but never proven.

[@kbanghart]

@@wetlettuce4768 I wonder if it's because they figured they had enough volunteers. what's the point in chasing down and shooting your own people who don't really want to be there, when you have others ready to take their place. Much different situation under Stalin.

[@saintroddy]

No, I think Speirs was forced to shoot a drunken sergeant because the NCO came at him with a gun.

[@Killabear-en2xq]

I love this show so much, you discover new things every time. I always wondered why Easy was the first of 9 companies to always be thrown into the action. I'd have to say it's because of what Sobel molded them into....THE finest airborne regiment. As much as they hated him, they made them what they are.....with Dick Winters help of course.

[@captainkev10]

Captain Dye is a pretty damned good actor.

[@CountArtha]

He was also the military consultant for the series!

[@celticjay2306]

Kevin Hagler Well shit.. He isnt acting... He is just being himself. Hardcore

[@WBenson1985]

Kevin Hagler he has worked in Hollywood as a technical advisor as far back as at least the 90's. The first film I saw him in was "Firebirds" with Nick Cage and Tommy Lee Jones

[@PuppetierMaster]

He's a damn fine Soldier is what he really is.

[@justjsse8917]

He recieved 3 purple hearts in Vietnam I believe. His interview on the drinkin bros podcast and launch code podcast was real good

[@simonaspalovis1204]

I'm not a military expert, but I assume the fact that all the NCO's comitted mutiny right before one of the most daring operations of that time, is what saved their bacon - they were simply too valuable to just replace in such short notice. If it was one or two NCO's who comitted mutiny, they would be quickly replaced and few would bat an eye. But when all the company's NCO's are in on it? Nah, that's no longer a problem - only the symptom of one.

[@wesbell9453]

Sobel was a real pain in the ass, from what Ive read from the viewpoint of E Co. And reports from the other NCOs. I still respect the decision of E Co. Showing their loyalty and gratitude for Dick Winters. He was a real life hero. All of them are. Including the deceased and MIAs. God, Please,Bless America! We need it! Especially now, in this very moment. More than ever! Take us home Father....

[@pybirdy2603]

i didn't remember the final scene in which we just can realize, early in the adventures of the company, how many respect the sergeants have for Winters. it's incredible. It is the scene what makes me love "band of brothers" and being fascinated by some unknown real heroes of the 2nd ww.... or perhaps other wars (sorry for my english)

[@thearticulategrunt]

2006 I was in Iraq, with the 101st. Command hated my guts for lots of reasons mostly to do with being an officer who gave a rats tail about my men. I got promoted to a desk job and this west point piece of eraser eating trash was given my company. One of my proudest moments when a couple of my sergeants stopped by to see me a couple weeks later and asked if battalion had anyone to replace the new commander or if they would have to send me back if he had an accident.

[@NYG5]

"yeah, it's bumpy out there, somebody could fall out of a truck"

[@thearticulategrunt]

Oh I know, not to mention you have GOT to check your boots when you get up in case of spiders or scorpions.

[@morganshare]

NYG5 and nades are known to accidentally go off.....

[@thearticulategrunt]

Command got worried enough, with some of the troops still coming to see and check things with me/ask my assistance with things, that I got reassigned as an embedded liaison and got dropped off to live in an Iraqi division. Command seemed really disappointed when i not only lived but did my job and even built a rapid response company within the Kurdish forces of the division lol.

[@chrisjackson3749]

+thearticulategrunt Ha.... That's awesome.

[@andrewkling9530]

Hey it's Tommy! He finally got to fight "Ze Germans!"

[@AndyCigars]

He certainly had the minerals! ;)

[@one7decimal2eight]

I like dags

[@AndyCigars]

One 7 Decimal 2 Eight whythefuukwuudiwannacaravanwitnofuukinweelz??!!

[@homelight6530]

A collective refusal to follow Ross Geller into combat.

[@waltertaljaard1488]

In the German army CO's like Sobel would get the ''sack treatment'', which was that his men would pull a sack over his head when walking in the dark and beat him up. In fact this was a Prussian militairy tradition to deal with such pricks.. It also happened to corporal Himmelstoss in ''All quiet on the Western front.'' And when this occured it was a sign to the superiors that such a CO didn't have the required superiority over and respect of his men, which was regarded as his own fault. Discipline was very hard, but officers also had a respect for their men drilled into them, which resulted in mutual respect and a great sense of comradeship between the ranks.

[@fishingismydrug1]

We had two of those parties while I was in basic training. Summer, '93. They wound up being the two best soldiers we had ! They where the proud recipients of said party for not pulling their own weight. Those where the only two times the drill sergeants door was closed.

[@AlexKS1992]

We got something but instead of a bag over the head we use a blanket. What would happen is that when it's sleep time some guys would quietly get up, hold a blanket down so that way poor schmuck doesn't escape and others would come by and hit the guy as punishment. It's called a blanket party.

[@ottokarl5427]

It is important to remember though that this is only reserved for training. If you would do that on the front, it pretty much would guarantee hard punishment. There is a scene in "Das Boot", where some unknown soldiers throw a dirty oil rag into the face of an officer. It gets shrugged off in the movie, but the author of the book noted that something like this would never happen on a german submarine...the punishment for the soldiers would be harsh and if no clear culprit could have been found, corporal punishment would have been put in place.

[@mariuszmiroslaw2290]

It's hard to admit it, but they have just a better training system. No one was writing letters like that.

[@mariuszmiroslaw2290]

@@ottokarl5427 The sub is very very small so that shouldn't be happening. As for the front (combat situation), such a ''prick'' will quickly got a bullet in the back.

[@warplanner8852]

Say what you will about Captain Dale Dye, he was one of the military advisors for B. O. B. and surely had those good ol' Hollywood boys saluting smarter than than most of those clowns in other war movies!

[@markmellon3727]

Anybody else pucker up when Dale Dye says, "GIT!"? I wasn't even there, and I feel like *I* did something wrong.

[@flyboymb]

Nowadays there's much more subtle ways of showing your displeasure with your command. During my deployment to Afghanistan, the 180th Calvary Regiment was deployed to Kuwait instead. Besides the fact that they were mostly escorting convoys through areas with little to no enemy action instead of engaging the Taliban, their officers apparently made life somewhat intolerable during the deployment. Considering this issue ran all the way up through Battalion, it wasn't such a relatively simple task as writing a letter showing lack of support for a CO. Thus Johnny Thunderbird was born. A series of KZbin videos pretty well calling out the worst offenders on their BS visible for all to see. They were simplistic in style, but maintained the autonomy of the creator and absolutely hilarious to whoever knew the targets of the lampoon. Somewhat damningly, the 180 command didn't just file it away as similar rumblings such as chem toilet graffiti or a disparaging nickname. Egos had been bruised and the wounded souls actively sought to investigate and uncover the culprit. This had the detrimental effect of spreading the videos existence to the whole of the Brigade and the popularity of the series skyrocketed. They're still online, and while I myself never knew who the guy was that created them, I assume he's moved on to civilian service and well out of reach of retribution at this point. I do know he was Enlisted, maybe an NCO. Just goes to show that even today the grunts can yank even a Field Grade Officer out of their self-perception as God's most perfect example of leadership.

[@SantomPh]

Being out of the way of possible war crimes and tribunals should be a blessing.

[@reidparker1848]

I used to be into military history until I realized that it was mostly flag officer-worshipping crap, as though they determine the outcome of battles/wars to the exclusion of absolutely everything else. Good weapons, good equipment, good tactics, the leadership/aptitude of junior officers, and frequent training in/with them wins wars, not some general pushing division markers around a map from his chatau command post. "Operational" success is nothing more than the aggregate success of "small", "insignificant" units.

[@therealunclevanya]

It was you, wasn't it 😄

[@LordVader1094]

I can't seem to find those Johnny Thunderbird videos

[@flyboymb]

@@LordVader1094 kzbin.info

[@OrbitFallenAngel]

These brave Men are part of the Greatest Generation to have ever walked the Earth!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 They will *always* and I mean *always* have my uttermost RESPECT!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸💗🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@hectorramos3436]

*one of the greatest generations

[@TheStewieOne]

I love the look in their faces like they were thinking. "FUCK!!!"

[@henerymag]

One of those guys played Al Capone in Boardwalk Empire.

[@jasonvoorhees5691]

Guarnere

[@SphinX504]

Actually, It's Ranney, not Guarnere.

[@ELROYALE]

But Guarnere shot Phil Leotardo!

[@robrs8631]

@@ELROYALE bye bye pop pop

[@lohancindy5442]

Not sure which one

[@ThatOldGrey]

Dammit, one BoB clip pops up in my feed and I have to get the DVDs out again. o7

[@TaskForceCP]

These were NCOs of the highest order. They had him over a barrel and they knew it! Goodbye Sobol!!!

[@edgaraquino2324]

It must have been awesome yet humbling for Winters to see all of these fine men willing & able to follow him into battle...I know I would be...he & they must have really been something back in the day...

[@yank-tc8bz]

The Colonel failed his men by not realizing the problems or taking action against Sobel earlier.

[@Revkor]

exactly, he should be demoted as well if you miss a problem this bad.

[@rasaecnai]

Sobel was well acted by David Schwimmer even us audience feels the same way

[@oz_jones]

Schwimmer was phenomenal

[@pfcn2]

My two cents, this moment represent respect, faith, loyalty, commitment by NCO's to 1Lt. Richard Winters.

[@rjws69]

No shit

[@hoosieryank6731]

No way I could have done that. Balls of brass!

[@necrowolf77]

Man, I'd be ok with losing rank, but losing my wings? that would be devastating

[@ObsidianLazarus]

Why did only 2 NCO’s get punished?

[@DGenerationX69]

@@ObsidianLazarus Because they were Staff Sergeants. They were in charge.

[@zygas25]

That and had he either killed or sacked them, it would become a debacle and screw up current plans

[@3dartxsi]

Everybody focuses on Sobel, but lets not forget Colonel Sink. If the man had bothered to get his head out of his ass and read any of the reports from the various training exercized EZ Company had participated in, he might have noticed how Sobel kept getting his unit lost or annihilated. In stead it takes a mutiny for him to notice that there is something wrong. Something tells me the real reason why he was so "lenient" was because bringing anyone up on formal charges might have led to some very uncomfortable questions being asked about his role in the whole mess.

[@michaelwong6050]

The Colonel is pretty much every big boss I have worked under. They pretend to care when in reality, they are just out for themselves and their careers.

[@zuuzuuka]

That commander was such a callous piece of shit. 1) for allowing a creature like Sobel into a position of leadership. 2) for not properly responding to a genuine and unanimous grievance against him. 3) for being willing to carelessly sacrifice his soldiers lives for a small slice of glory, when he ordered that second unnecessary patrol and capture after the first one was a success (as he called it despite no strategic value extracted and a soldier dead)

[@estellemelodimitchell8259]

The mutiny by the NCOs (loss of confidence) and Winters request for court martial (for an order which he did not carry out as he didn’t receive it) was probably the reason why Sobel remained a Captain till the end of the European campaign, while his once XO outranked him.

[@IronVigilance]

So that's what Scrum did after he was a pirate in the Caribbean. Damn this show has an amazing cast!

[@TheGnolla]

I love how Sink dismisses them. "Get!" 😂 Or is it "Git!"?

[@thomaswh31]

Those men (and many like them) are the reason we have our freedom today

[@then33k4]

+thomaswh31 what nonsense..

[@reidparker1848]

thomaswh31 Here, thomas, I'll be your first non-retarded replier: Damn right!

[@VasilyKiryanov]

> the Soviets ... killed twice as many people as the Germans did. How so?

[@Jermster_91]

“Mutiny. I thought that was a word for the Navy!” Colonel Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, 20th Maine

[@LIGHTNING278TH]

According to Guarnere he was jumpy in combat and could not read a map as shown earlier in this episode.

[@ligidaykurin9106]

Piecing all these comments together helped me understand the background of this scene

[@imapaine-diaz4451]

Some of the best training commanders made some of the worst combat leaders. those men of easy company are alive because of how sobel trained them! He trained them hard!They are also alive because winters led them in combat.

[@SantomPh]

Sobel shaped them to become soldiers but was lousy at actually leading them. Since WW2 training officers and COs have been separated for this reason. Trainers stay in basics camp, COs stay in the field.

[@gino14]

Easy Company's actual battle records show no marked improvement compared to other airborne companies. They didn't lose fewer men, they didn't complete more objectives, and they weren't legendary for anything in particular. Sobel's stringence was in utter vain. There are ways to push performance out of your unit without being such an asshole that every NCO _would rather risk execution_ than follow you.

[@rossmcintyre3450]

Ima Paine-diaz It doesn’t require an officer behaving as a bully or a sergeant, or sergeant major to get the best out of a unit. Such behaviour in the Australian army would see such a person severely beaten with a sack over their head. In WW1 their was the idea that putting English officers in Australian units would do what Lt Sobel did here. As senior British officers considered Australian soldiers slovenly. After a few such Officers died under suspicious circumstances this stopped, and the capacity of the Australian units to fight was beyond reproach so this spit and polish judgement that assumed a requirement to be a useful army slowly became less of an issue.

[@slungellife]

@@rossmcintyre3450 You almost make it sounds like killing officers is a good thing....

[@Страус-к3ш]

@@slungellife Fragging the shit ones is always good.

[@MrMattykuk]

That was me taking the pots of the back good memories !! Not my voice though ha they added that in.

[@MatthewPoplawsk]

Sobel quote: YOU SALUTE THE RANK, NOT THE MAN. At the end of this, all the men saluted Winters. They saluted THE MAN, NOT THE RANK.

[@johnharris6655]

Soebel was a great training officer, that does not make him a good field officer. If any thing it was the Army and Sink's fault for not seeing he was not a good field commander.

[@Revkor]

bingo

[@Brian6587]

"Get out of my office and get out of my sight" GET! 😆

[@TheFunkhouser]

Did this really happen!?? If so its HUGE! Mega cast iron balls were hung on each! But whyd the Major fry the first guy?? O_o

[@supremecmder6107]

+TheFunkhouser To make an example out of one man. If you were to fry them all, you would lose your veteran soldiers out of your main company.

[@thelongfella555]

+TheFunkhouser it saved his life :)

[@nate6907]

He was transferred to able company but i believe he was transferred back to easy company and died in 1944.

[@TheFunkhouser]

Le Bo2 ProM8 Hmm sad. RIP

[@jasonvoorhees5691]

*Colonel

[@jamiewulfyr4607]

As a Brit the amount of British actors faces I've seen in this is astounding.Some of 'em have gone on to be big names in Britain!Can Americans tell which ones by accent slips etc?

[@mad-k6q]

Jamie Shutler ah, no. Oh the guy who played Winters for one.

[@alanmjohnson]

That's a great question. I think the only ones I noticed were Ross McCall and Shane Taylor.

[@cantordubs9721]

1940s ketchup and cigarettes look so good

[@swartchalk6745]

Frederick Theodore 'Moose' Heyliger survived from his injuries and lived till November 3, 2001. He died one day before the final episode of band of brothers was released.

[@Lex5576]

Old "Fighting Bob Sink" was a NO bullshiter. He did the right thing for reprimanding his men for "limited" attempt at mutiny, but he had to know full well that Sobel was a clusterfuck waiting to happen.....so he got rid of him.

[@Revkor]

he did the wrogn thing for not noticing earlier.

[@stipelis]

what a crew of actors!

[@BryonLape]

Perhaps things were different back then, but I'd expect the NCOs to take this their Sargent Major and not directly to the commander.

[@avibenavraham]

The rank of sergeant major did not exist in WWII, it was only introduced much later on in the late 50s

[@MinusTheRogue]

Joshua Abraham Would their superior not be a lieutenant, if they were sergeants?

[@SantomPh]

yeah, Bill and Babe Heffron were trying to write a book about their WW2 experience , and by the time Bill located the Sobel family his daughter had informed Bill that he had already died. Sobel's son did contribute a chapter about his dad to another book by E Company vets though.

[@billwilliams4748]

Sobel never had the makings of a varsity athlete

[@tystin_gaming]

A lesson needs to be learned from this in all aspects of life when it comes to war, or even civilian work. You need to take a stand when you KNOW those leading you are not worthy of that position. But this also shows what happens when you stick to your principles. That commander instead of busting all of them, should have realized just how much their actions proved their point. So he busts them, then transfers soble. So in the end, he corrects the problem, but also punishes those that showed him the light....

[@SR-bh5jd]

Vietnam would serve a “killed by friendly fire” incident.

[@simonwillis1529]

Winters is a roll model for a true leader actor who played him perfect match

[@jonnybirchyboy1560]

*role model

[@philiproseel3506]

Only in movies do they salute in tandem, crisp every time. In reality, it’s a bit sloppier. A bit too perfect for me. And I served in the 101st as an infantryman…twice.

[@LegionKilo]

My Infantry DS, Billy Sierks, was exactly like CPT Sobel. He was a Ranger Bat-Boy. If you know what those are. He never knew a day in the regular Army or the regular Infantry. He fucking hated every single thing about us. There was absolutely nobody more capable in the field than he was. But he couldn't garrison worth a fuck. As the eldest (age 30) of the active duty guys he brought the hammer down on me after week three. And he didn't let up right until the end. I ended up getting an article-15, and graduated alone in our bay, but I pinned on the coveted blue cord, packed up my greens, read the mural on our wall, "The True Believer" one last time, and left.

[@TheElMuffin]

Someone might defend Sobel and say he at least trained Easy Company well, instilling discipline and promoting extreme fitness. I would argue that men of Easy Company turned out so not because of Sobel's "leadership", but despite it, because they were already such men.

[@chazzlucas6395]

I will not follow that man into combat ...LOL Classic Bill

[@demam41]

.....where was Bull when they were all getting yelled at?

[@JeAlGoGu300]

He was not an NCO still. His rank was Corporal. I think they put him in that scene as someone outside supporting the mutiny. Though I don't know if that was for the TV show or that he was really there. But since he was not a Sergeant he was not in the room with the others.

[@stephendarroch5565]

Sobel was an excellent instructor and harsh taskmaster but he lacked the ability to lead the men while Winters respected the men under his command and didnt ask them to do anything that he himself was unprepared to do. The fact that all the Easy Company survivors praised Sobel after the war for his training shows that they still respected the man for the training regime that kept so many of them alive throughout the campaign

[@SuperChuckRaney]

He was not an excellent instructor and his harshness doesn't full fill a purpose. He men succeded inspite of him. The only thing Sobel accomplished by making an arse of himself everyday was to create a RABID dislike for himself, that is what drove the men everyday. Not giving Sobel the satisfaction of seeing an enlisted man fail.

[@RaptorsGM]

​@@SuperChuckRaney😊

[@BradyKaynee]

@@SuperChuckRaneyNot according to Winters

[@SuperChuckRaney]

​@@BradyKaynee Winters is being Winters. He's classy. Look at what Sobel accomplished: his men hated him so much they ignored the 'simple' tasks, knowing he was gonna throw a tantrum like a little boy. THEY did it ANYWAY. His harshness wasn;t disipline inspiring, wasn't EFFORT inspiring. It was a little boy screaming for attention. The show gives us the scene of the SGTS resigning. And the Col could see THE DEAL. That deal being Sobel wasn't fit to command troops in battle. The men that knew him best, knew it too. Let me ask you this ... What was Sobel's RANK at the end of the war? What Sobel accomplished specifically was a feeling of community and brotherhood amoung his troops. THEY ALL hated him to a man. That's not leadership for an Officer. Sgts who achieve this lead by example. At the tip of the spear. And people who served under them attend their funerals.

[@BradyKaynee]

@@SuperChuckRaneySo are you saying Winters is wrong, especially he experienced Sobel's training and the outcome of that training, even Lipton back this up. Military training to this day used similar training methods.

[@dorkmax7073]

An officer must return every salute given. For a man railing about uniform code, he thinks himself an exception.

[@CountArtha]

He's basically treating them as prisoners at this point. Not returning their salute is a deliberate act of scorn.

[@dorkmax7073]

CountArtha Chesty Puller was a famous marine who was known to be an advocate for all enlisted men. One day, a sergeant accidently walked past a young lieutenant without saluting. The officer made him salute 100 times. Chesty came to him and said "You were right to scold him for not rendering salute, sir. But, as you know, an officer must return every given. Now, stand there and I'll keep count."

[@jefftappan3091]

Protocol requires all salutes that are rendered to be returned. At least, that's what I learned in boot camp E BTRY 1st Bn 1st ADA Trng Bde Ft Bliss TX

[@Robi2009]

1:57 - that's an inaccuracy - Sgt. Harris was transfered to "I" company/3 battalion, but still 506th regiment under Sink's command.

[@Meme-zc4cw]

Can we all agree Cpt. Dale Dye is an amazing actor?

[@TerryT420]

"I will not follow that man into combat." Guarnere knew Sobel would get them killed, so risking a firing squad was better odds.

[@urbypilot2136]

After watching this scene for the first time, I've always wondered whether or not Col. Sink had been considering reassigning Capt. Sobel for sometime by that point. I mean, the colonel would've probably seen the reports of how poorly Easy Co. was doing in combat exercise while led by Capt. Sobel, as opposed to their performance back in parachute infantry training. Of course being threatened with an ultimatum by NCO's will never sit well with any commissioned officer, but wouldn't that have just served as the last straw that told Col. Sink that Easy would end up in a hand basket if he kept Capt. Sobel in charge?

[@AndrewAMartin]

I think Col. Sink was angry partly for the NCO's method of getting his attention about Capt. Sobel, and partly because he hadn't fully understood the depth of the problem with Sobel, which is his own failure. No one in charge of anything likes being made aware of their failures, and the NCO mutiny would have made the problem very public. I think too that Sink was probably trying to be as discreet as he could to deal with Sobel, to keep Easy intact and to avoid the appearance of a demotion for Sobel. The Court-Martial of Winters was bad enough publicity to deal with. Both incidents together really made the colonel look bad.

[@Shaboomquisa]

General sink is my great great gfather

[@hjer731]

St ranney's fear when addressed was great acting

The last scene with Sobel refusing to return Winters' salute was foreshadowing for the last episode when Winters chided Sobel for not doing it at the end of the war. Nice.