BANDS THAT CHANGED THEIR SOUND: WAS IT FOR THE BETTER? THE WORSE? OR ARE WE UNDECIDED?

[@evanatkins8923]

Welcome back Opeth!

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I have high hopes for this new Opeth.

[@UberNoodle]

@@thrallsofmetal Yeah, the new Opeth. It's their first album since 2008. I'm interested. ;)

[@colinclark1981]

I was honestly hoping for an opeth jazz record. I loved heritage and ICV

[@Zyborggian]

@@UberNoodle Not for a lot of us lmao (I love the old stuff the most mind you but I like or dislike the prog rock period to varying degrees of quality)

[@jarlwhiterun7478]

​@@UberNoodlenope. Pale Communion had some great songs, Sorceress had even more, In Cauda had a few and Heritage sucked!

[@aydendonley9660]

Awesome video, and a Katatonia ranking would be amazing in the future. One of the most spotless long catalogs ever to me. I even love tonight’s decision and discouraged ones. Can’t wait for part 2

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I'd love to do a Katatonia ranking one day. I did do a deep dive with some fellow KZbinrs on my buddy Gas Masks & Hand Grenades awhile ago if you're looking for an in depth discussion about the band. It was a lot of fun to go through that one.

[@aydendonley9660]

@@thrallsofmetal awesome, will definitely check that out. Love the videos👍

[@lutfimakarim8258]

Black Tide comes to mind. They went from a promising young thrash band on their debut to just another emo band on their second album.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I have both albums and yeah, that second one was a big let down.

[@lorenzomoscato731]

I dunno if I dislike the second album...maybe it's cause I went through my emo phase and I still appreciate that sound?

[@EddieTHead2266]

Agreed

[@braindeadrichard]

Blade Tide is a great example. Another great example is Lost Society another great thrash band. First two albums are pure thrash their 3rd album was more of a groove metal approach it was still good. Then they started sounding like metalcore like Black Tide started doing and I checked out.

[@jarlwhiterun7478]

That was one of the best debut records I've ever heard from such a young band

[@unsoundproductions-cn1py]

Mastodon is such a great study with this subject. Their best album is usually the one your currently listening to. As such well rounded musicians they have naturally morphed and became much deeper artists, but the old stuff is soo good. I typically point to "the Hunter" as the album being them doing their best from either side of core elements to progression. But you could really say that about most of them.

[@jarlwhiterun7478]

They don't have the ability to make anything other than great records. They improve as song writers, vocals have exponentially improved and have tons of variety, and I would argue Hushed and Grim is their best work yet and an extremely slow burn

[@peachmelba1000]

​@jarlwhiterun7478 How are their live vocals now? I saw them years ago when they were touring CTS, and the singing was comically bad. I find everything after CTS to be a bit over-produced as well, which does nothing to detract from the songs but leads to a sort of sameness in the sound through the last few albums, imo.

[@destinybennett666]

Honestly Carcass probably has my favorite discography of any band. Even though Swansong is like the step child of the discography I still enjoy it just not as much as the first 4 albums

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I'd have to agree. I love that they were musically pretty fearless and ended up setting trends more often than they followed them. Every album is it's own unique entity and that's always been something I've marveled at when it comes down to them.

[@GlassThirdEye]

Swansong has some bangers on it. Keep on rotting, black star, childs play all great songs. Is it the the carcass of yester year? No, but I still fuck with it.

[@hunterwade560]

@@AgentBeans Yeah not the best lyrically, but definitely some groovy jams on that album

[@eduardmartin1351]

Cheers from Romania guys! Please do more topical videos because they are always interesting. I still miss the band vs band/album vs album viewers response type content.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Hey! Thanks, man! We have another one coming up soo so stay tuned. Hails from Ohio, man!

[@stefantopuzov6140]

Oh boy! As a certified Load apologist, I am going to love this! :D

[@stefantopuzov6140]

Actually, the way you put it for Metallica - better vs worse - I can't disagree. Obviously the run up to Justice is better. I'd only argue Load is actually good :D Sepultura - I'd argue their 2 eras are actually before and after Roots, not Max/Derrick. And I prefer the before. I'd say the better Derrick albums like Machine Messiah and Dante are better than the ones before Schizophrenia, though.

[@joeylummox7330]

​@@stefantopuzov6140I was throughly disappointed with exactly two albums back in highschool. St. Anger and Against. Against left such a bad taste in my mouth I literally gave up on Sepultura.

[@stefantopuzov6140]

@@joeylummox7330 I can't blame you. Against is unlistenable :D The improved slowly after that though to the point where Dante is a legitimately good album. Well worth the listen, as well as Machine Messiah.

[@PadanFain-yp2yz]

And as a certified Load/ReLoad fan for life....I shall take the stand in eternal defense of those albums. While obviously not perfect, 90% of the material on both is just fantastic bluesy hard rock with impeccable production. They certainly took a left turn...but I even prefer this era of the band over the Black album...and that album is awesome.

[@gergonikk]

​@@joeylummox7330how long was your high school? Against came out in Oct 1998, St Anger was June 2003.

[@ericwill2133]

Really enjoyed this video and would be very much interested in this becoming a series.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! This is definitely going to become a series.

[@BBQcheese]

Cool video, I mostly agree with your assessments. Another idea would be the inverse of this one bands who were incredibly consistent were they better for it or do we wish they would have experimented more?

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- That's one I considered while I was working on this one so we might do that in the future.

[@Timzdametal]

Great episode. I didn't expect to have sucha strong opinion on every band mentioned. I was expecting at least a few obscure bands I didn't know. I was there in the late 90s for the early in flames releases and it was just one of those amazing periods in time for new metal bands after shit like Korn and coal chamber had taken over the scene.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Yeah, this is just the start so we wanted to get some more recognizable bands in this first episode before we get more into the underground. Yeah, when nu metal and groove metal hit in the mid 90's it did change shit around and because of it's popularity a lot of bands that were far removed from that sound stylistically tried their hand at it with mixed to shitty results.

[@Timzdametal]

@@thrallsofmetal did you ever listen to old Sanael? Passage is still one of my favourite albums of all time. Speaking of bands that got worse......fark they got way worse hahaha.

[@supercouchpotato9698]

One thing I will never understand is how some people say that Cattle Decap got worse. To me, it seemed like their skill and songwriting only improved over time. Obviously the early stuff is still great, but there's no way it's that much better than what they've been putting out nowadays. Great video btw! 🤘

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Yeah, I don't get that either. It probably has more to do with their fanbase getting bigger which to some denotes them being "sellouts" or something like that. I love all their stuff but their era from Monolith to Inhumanity to right now has been amazing.

[@vonclod123]

They definitely upped their game, songwriting, production!!

[@LicoriceLain]

@@vonclod123 Also, I would argue the new one is almost as great as Monolith.

[@vonclod123]

@@LicoriceLain I love the new one!

[@franklij1]

I love to hear you guys talking so positive about COC Wiseblood. I feel like that is one of the best albums of the 90's that is massively slept on. Just a timeless album with all killer, and I still revisit it a few times a year. To me it is the pinnacle of COCs catalog. Great video as usual guys!

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Deliverance and Wiseblood were huge for me when I was younger. I jammed the living shit out of both and they've held up so damn well. I hear they're gonna drop a new album soon so I'm looking forward to that one.

[@adamchastain7089]

The high on fire shirt is legendary

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man!

[@ryantorres9518]

Your guys videow have been great. Appreciate them.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man!

[@martinnapier6286]

Tribulation are a strange one because although I love the early death metal stuff I still love the later goth metal albums. Where the Gloom Becomes Sound was one of my favourite albums of 2021

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- That's definitely one on the list for sure. I love their debut. It's an underground death metal gem but I love a lot of their gothic era especially Down Below and Where the Gloom Becomes Sound. Hell, I think with this new one we're going to get an even bigger shift in their sound too.

[@eightstringibanez]

Great discussion John and Nick.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man!

[@METALBENSCHRONICLES]

This was a really great topic for a video. Other bands I can think of are Therion Samael Amorphis Sentenced and Anathema that really changed their sounds.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, Ben! Yeah, I had all of those on the list except for Samael which I can't believe I missed. That one would be a fun one to talk about because I know people that are fans of either era of the band.

[@eenpersoon2881]

I think an interesting one is Arch Enemy. I love that Johan Liiva era, especially Burning Bridges, and the first few Gossow albums. Then they got the mtv metal chick, got more popular than ever while dumbing down their sound. A pity, honestly.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I like the music in the Liiva era but I really wasn't a huge fan of his vocals. Burning Bridges is killer albums and honestly I still hear a lot of Carcass on that one in the riffs. They're on the list so we'll likely go over them because this is definitely going to be a series now.

[@eenpersoon2881]

@@thrallsofmetal Stoked for the next part! The riffs in that album are courtesy of the Amott brothers, who imo, are an even more important foundation of the band than whoever sang for them!

[@RodrigoDigoJunho]

A band that did and does this with mastery is Carcass, the guys can be Grindcore, Melodic Death Metal and Rock mixed with Death Metal, all with quality and all pleasant for their fans, remembering that this is just my isolated opinion, i left the like to the video, thank you guys !

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Hey! Thanks, man! Totally agree on Carcass. It seemed like whenever they changed their sound that most of the time they were ahead of the curve and ended up being innovators of a new style: grindcore/ goregrind, deathgrind, melodic death metal. It was a constantly evolving project and I love that about Carcass.

[@barrywhitesavedmylife7957]

Corrosion of conformity three 80's Hardcore/Crossover period work are my favourites by them. That said I still really dig their later sound, I think to myself what's more Hardcore than totally reinventing your sound and doing what you really want to do?

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- It kinda depends on what era you got into COC with honesty. I got into them with Deliverance but then not long after that I snagged Technocracy so I enjoy both. It really hard to go wrong with this band for the most part honestly.

[@Hecatecrossways]

Amorphis, Sentenced, Samael , Beherit, and Celtic Frost have definitely changed dramatically. But I can't think of anything that made as drastic of a change as Tiamat, from murky evil Death Metal with lyrics about ancient evil, to an all out Dance club techno Goth band

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- We've got all those on the list for sure. We'll definitely do a follow up to this at some point but I want to make sure Jon is more up to speed on some of these bands.

[@lucasvanti2200]

yep, absolutely that "Depeche Mode style" era from early 2000s were crap... How come a band that released a masterpiece like Wildhoney release a piece of shit like Skeletron Skeleton

[@jboogedy]

Ironically enough you could put a lot of those bands from yesterday that had top shelf debuts into this category later on in their careers! Great subjects to discuss back to back! Also if anyone has peeped the new Opeth single, the death growl vocals are back!!!!!

[@ChrisLT]

I liked this format a whole lot.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man!

[@UberNoodle]

I saw Carcass a few months ago, and it was my first time to ever see them live, even though I've been a massive fan since Necroticism came out. Blame Australia being so far away! But I feel like I saw a side of the band I had never really appreciated before, when I saw them live: Their sense of humour. It's always been there, in a wry, tongue in cheek, winking way. But seeing them live really drove that home. They were so much fun. I'm not saying they are a joke or novelty band, like seemingly half of Napalm Records roster (I said it!). But I feel that carcass has always been having a laugh. As much as they said to be pioneers of goregrind, I think that fans took their lyrical content and aesthetic far more seriously than the band did. Look at the first two albums especially: You can't write lyrics like that and be keeping a straight face while doing it. You write lyrics like that, because you think it's kind of hilarious. And listening to Swan Song recently again after so many years of forgetting it was in my collection, I realised how much that tongue and cheek, wry sense of humour pervaded the whole thing. It's a pretty cheeky album: obviously in the lyrics but also in the music itself. Those are some cheeky riffs. Weather you as a fan like that, is another question, but I've softened on that album significantly. It's not my favourite Carcass album (I actually think the side project that came off it, Blackstar, did it better), although some of those songs absolutely slay live. But I no longer think that the album was really out of character for Carcass. I just think I, and probably most fans, didn't really understand their character at the time.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Growing up on Monty Python I've always appreciated dry, British humor and Jeff's banter on stage is hilarious. There's always been an air of cynicism to their themes because while on the surface the early stuff just seems like pathological gore but a lot of it was metaphor for their stance on eating meat and our treatment of animals. They just used the gore to show that we're just meatbags ourselves. They definitely brought in more snide lyrics on Swan Songs and clearly they were just having some fun there. They're just flat out interesting dudes and amazing musicians.

[@UberNoodle]

@@thrallsofmetal Yeah, their vegetarian and vegan past was really facinating. And who says metal shouldn't be political! ;) Finally seeing Carcass after decades of loving their music, I only wish I had been able to see them decades earlier.

[@DallasGunther]

Yeah man, good call.

[@kenshir0.kazuma65]

Am I the only one who's favourite Opeth albums are Orchid, Morningrise and My Arms Your Hearse? Orchid is one of my favourite albums of all time. Feels very blackened and melodic without clean vocals for most of the album. 👌

[@ShoggothSounds]

No. Those are absolutely amazing albums and Morningrise is the album I go back to most often.

[@austinspitler9177]

Orchid is easily their best

[@SpecialAgentBillMaxwell]

Morningrise is one of my favorites. It seems strange to me that so many people don't like it. That demo track they put on the special version isn't so hot, but the base album is one of their best, IMO.

[@OliverWalker1978]

It may not be their best album objectively, but I'm a massive fan of Orchid. A very special album that I still listen to a lot.

[@kenshir0.kazuma65]

@@SpecialAgentBillMaxwell yeah I love that one as well. It's actually my second favourite after Orchid lol. I think the best about the first 2 albums is that cold atmospheric sound that you don't find as much these days. It's the same with At The Gates and The Red In The Sky is Ours and With Fear I Kiss The Burning Darkness.

[@hawaiianshirtguy_29]

I was wondering, could we ever get a Nevermore discography ranking video? Love the content! Keep the metal faith alive🤟

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I'd love to do that band at some point actually.

[@mavisser3211]

Yea please

[@colinerswell7490]

Great show Pete and the lads. Here are my favourite albums that I was listening to in 1974, when I would have been seventeen years young. Kiss- Kiss Rolling Stone- it's only rock n roll. Rory Gallagher- Irish tour 74 Supertramp- Crime of the century. Diamond Dogs- David Bowie.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Diamond Dogs is killer!

[@mycoachknowsthesheriff]

Ulver comes to mind

[@blackwaterrust476]

Bands that changed their sound for the better: Pantera Katatonia Cattle Decapitation Napalm Death Voivod Enslaved Amorphis Between the Buried and me Behemoth Meshuggah Septicflesh Idk can’t choose: Mastodon Gojira Corrosion of Conformity Carcass Paradise Lost Anathema Boris Death Bathory Cradle of Filth Bands that got Worse: Metallica Ministry Opeth (New single sounded promising tho) Kreator Sepultura In Flames Therion

[@Hellenicheavymetal]

I loved Phantom Antichrist but the 2 albums after sounded like tracks that didn't quite make it on PA. I like a couple songs off GOV. I like all periods of Amorphis. Theyre just great all around.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- We've got a lot of these on the list already for more of these and I even wrote down some we didn't consider here.

[@filipdzero8739]

I'd swap Kreator & Bathory. Everything after Bathory's Hammerheart is poor. Kreator, on the other hand, has ups & downs. I think their new revamped Power-Thrash style is great, but the last album sucked & their style got way more chorus-heavy. I love PA & GoV even more than some classic stuff (Terrible Cettainty), but they have some stinkers.

[@vorpalblades]

Mesuggah has gotten progressively worse. After Chaosphere, it's all garbage.

[@markforcellino409]

I see Death more of a evolution over their albums. Gojira first 3 maybe 4 albums were amazing then they watered it down for popularity

[@garrysanderson9957]

Blind was my entry to COC. I was obsessed with Vote With A Bullet and Damned For All Time. Killer guitar tine. Jammed the shit out of Deliverance at college. Heartwork is untouchable manna. I got a guy to tape Necroticism after I saw the Incarnated Solvent Abuse and Corporeal Jigsore Quandry videos. They’ve got better for me. Some soaring melody among the heaviness is what I look for in a lot of my death metal taste. I dig Swansong. Death n Roll but still with riffs. Also, that brain shaped cd?! 🤘 Great video, guys. Looking forward to more bands on this subject.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Yeah, we're definitely going to make this a series since people really seemed to enjoy this one. I didn't get Blind until after I got Deliverance and Wiseblood so by then I was already hooked on Pepper's awesome vocals so that one took some getting used to minus Vote with a Bullet which is still a favorite of mine. Heartwork is a god tier album for me. I love most of Carcass's stuff but that album in particular still mesmerizes me. There's just something about that album.

[@antonkovalenko364]

[laughs in Ulver]

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Still need some Ulver in my collection. I know it's got a lot of twists and turns in it too.

[@antonkovalenko364]

@@thrallsofmetal Raise Hell is another band that did a 180 between albums. I would recommend checking them out as well, if you are not familiar with them.

[@Zyborggian]

REAL. My main memory association with Ulver is the first album they changed their sound was my former English Professor's fave album of all time. He also loved old Opeth and Ahab and Panopticon.

[@thehakiguy7006]

The Ocean Collective would fit perfectly in one of these videos. The change from Fluxion to Heliocentric was pretty stark I’d say. Regardless of the pre-Loic era or the Loic era, that band is just so fucking cool.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- That one is on the list and I totally agree. I'd even say that Precambrian was a kind of a bridge between that change too.

[@jarlwhiterun7478]

Love that band

[@SarcasmIsMyGame_]

What I miss the most about old Gojira is their groovy riffs in songs like Flying Whales, Space Time, Remembrance, Blow me away you(niverse)...

[@nemesis8626]

About Gojira the next album is supposedly going to be very heavy, with alot of influence from morbid angel and more classic death metal, Mario said this quite awhile ago just after fortitude was released, whether that plan has got changed during songwriting we will have to see, i would expect something heavier though. Think Joe may have said something along the same lines recently too actually.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Well, I'm totally down for them returning to their heavier stuff but at the same time I dig this current era as well. I just thing they're a good band in general.

[@Slayereyez]

I feel like Mastodon was an evolution of sound instead of an outright change. I still like all there stuff.

[@Ynffy]

Carcass have always showed they can write good songs. It might just not be everyones cup of tea. I like Swansong for what it is. It was Megadethish at a time where Mustaine felt like writing poppy hit songs instead of sticking to what he is good at. The post reunion albums are great and "Mount of Execution" is one of my favorite tracks ever.

[@cliffhass9158]

I Actually Love the black album (Used to pretend i didnt honestly) but i Gues I SUPER LOVE the first 4 Albums.

[@peachmelba1000]

Re: Mastodon, my hot take is that when they became a more melodic band on Crack The Skye, they should have considered recruiting a dedicated frontman who could do all the band's stuff. I know it sounds nuts to say that, but in terms of the live experience (having seen the band way back when they started and also in the last decade), the singing is often _very_ bad in the live setting on the newer more melodic songs. This is mostly down to Brann having to play those insane drum parts _and_ sing simultaneously. The drumming stays solid, but the singing never quite makes it. I hate to say it, but it came off really amateurish when I saw CTS live, despite the band absolutely crushing their parts. The bad vocal delivery really marred the experience. Let the hate roll in now haha

[@sonokawaray]

As a big Lacuna Coil fan I find their change over time to be interesting. Their older stuff is more on the goth rock side, then after Comalies we saw a switch to goth metal, emphasis on metal. And despite Karmacode being a winner in my ears (I know mileage may vary on that), I didn't think the change was all that great for a while. Then I dunno, with Broken Crown Halo something started to click, Delirium and Black Anima were bangers, then to prove they've nailed this new style they remade Comalies and that slapped too. At this point I would say whether you think old or new Coil is better depends on your musical tastes, both have their solid strengths. Just, y'know, start with either their first three or last three albums before checking out the middle third.

[@steve9115]

Couldn't agree more about veil of maya. I loved Common Man's Collapse through Eclipse. After that it was all downhill.

[@WildBCPhoto]

Napalm Death is another one you could add to this debate: Whilst I like their earlier stuff, and agree it is groundbreaking and highly influential, my favourite era is from Enemy of the Music Business onwards. It's difficult to say whether it's better, though, despite it being my favourite, so I'd probably go 'neutral' on it.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- They may end up on the list because of the different eras but that gets tough. I love pretty much everything Enemies of the Music Business on but I also love Utopia Banished, Harmony Corruption and Fear Emptiness Despair which are all wildly different. That's a tough one to call.

[@darrenbooker8144]

Katatonia call out is epic, from viva till now is a beautiful stretch of growth and brilliantness ❤

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Totally agree!

[@odyniec1]

doom/death branch changed the sound - Anathema, the Gathering, Katatonia, Amorphis, Lake of Tears, Tiamat, Paradise Lost...

[@Orangeokie7]

Loved this video. Made me lol a few times. Have you guys ever heard of Pharmacist? Total Carcass worship and it's awesome!

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I'm glad you dug the humor. Actually, I'll be going over some Pharmacist in the future in a collection update so stay tuned.

[@BATS33]

you should do 'metal bands/albums other people like but I cant stand'. Side note: I love the Subterranean Ep a lot. The original version of 'dead god in me' from the Jester Race called 'the inborn lifeless' (which appears as a bonus track on the reissue) is one of my favourite songs ever.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I'd have to ask around with that one since I only really know what I dislike or dislike. It's a possibility though. The Inborn Lifeless is probably my favorite song on Subterranean honestly.

[@cmsull3316]

You guys know Max Cavalera is wearing a Thralls Of Metal shirt in one of his latest videos?

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- We did! They messaged us just to show us on his birthday! Warms my heart every time I see him rep our stuff.

[@LeeGion_981]

The Contortionist, if you listen to their debut ‘Exoplanet’ then their latest ‘Clairvoyant’ it’s night and day. There is also gradual change in the middle 2 albums to get where they are today.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- That one is on the list for a follow up to this one. I know Jon probably really wants to talk about this band in particular since he's a pretty diehard fan on their earlier material.

[@skulltheft9984]

Great video, but do you think we will get a Deicide album ranking by the end of the year? I know a lot goes into the album ranking videos but just want to see where we are at on the timeline.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! probably not by the end of the year but at the end of the Meshuggah Ranking premiering on Wednesday there's a thing alluding to the next batch of rankings we'll do.

[@jovan9989]

Neurosis went from crust punk to whatever they were in the 90's (i guess first post metal band). For sure a massive upgrade.

[@michaelc3656]

1,000% agree with Veil of Maya. The Common Man's Collapse, [id], and Eclipse are all really great. Everything after that has been a mere shell of that sound. Such a pity. Also regarding Gojira, I get that they haven't changed their sound too much, but their first 5 albums are great. Their last 2 have been major disappointments for me. I can't imagine they'll go back to their Mars/Flesh/Sauvage sound anymore, which will be sad. Their Olympics event was amazing, though.

[@filipdzero8739]

Fortitude was my first disappointment. I still like Magma, it felt like a transitional album, but still trying sth new without abandoning the whole style, even though it doesn't hold a candle to the earlier albums.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Yeah, I haven't bought a Veil of Maya album since getting Matriarch and being unbelievably disappointed by that out. As for Gojira I like it all but I prefer that trinity of albums you brought up especially. Magma and Fortitude are definitely more accessible but they're still well executed and they both have memorable songs.

[@VampireJack10]

Gojira can do no wrong for me - the first album didn't quite hit the highs as much as what followed, but the roots were there. I cannot wait to see what they do next - for me, alongside Amorphis and Carcass, they are the best current metal bands out there.

[@rutbuck121]

E veryone's consesnsus #1 band who drastically changed should be In Flames how you go from pioneers of the MeloDeath Genre to flat out radio friendly pop music i never listened to them again after Come Clarity.

[@Nadinetherescuehound]

I saw them in their later years play sandwiched in between Bodom and Megadeth. They practically got boo’d off the stage. I wanted to hear some Jester Race and Whoracle but nope…worst sober band I’ve ever seen live. Lmao!!

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Yeah, but there's also a couple of others on there that kinda pulled the same thing In Flames did in a different way but the harsh (or decidedly less harsh rather) turn that In Flames took still grates on me.

[@beardcog1267]

Sepultura is an interesting one for me because they never really deviated in sound per se but man did Max bring a completely different energy to the vocals.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- They kinda did but the sound had already deviated while Max was in there with Chaos A.D. and Roots. I think they just chose to stay close to that course when Derrick joined the band. Max flat out belted his vocals with authority and while Derrick could to he had very different cadences and a bit more range which allowed him to put his own stamp on the songs.

[@44DoubleZer00_Studios]

Yes, yes, yes, YAZZZZZ !!!! 1,000% agree with Katatonia. They've progressed and got better and better with each album, and holy crap, their newest album, Sky Void of Stars still till this day makes me tear up and cry because it was the last album I listened with my dog before she passdd away in my arms. Thats already a modern masterpiece for me. Katatonia just became one of my all time favorite bands ever and a band with no weak album at all. A flawless discography in my opinion, which is right!

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- As much as I love Brave Murder Day the material from Viva Emptiness on has been the stuff I get into more. I'm sorry you have such a heartbreaking memory attached to that album but maybe it helps having that as catharsis too. I love that band in general. It's sad music for people who love heavy music.

[@oatmilk9918]

Two bands which come to mind for me are Dimmu Borgir and Cattle Decapitation. The loss of Vortex, Mustis and the switch to a more orchestral and 'industrial' sound doesn't really live up to the EDT to ISD era of Dimmu. For Cattle decap, their sound switch which began with The Harvest Floor and really took off with The Monolith of Inhumanity is one of the best examples of a band getting better with a change in sound. Idk the consensus on whether deathcore is metal, but Whitechapel would be another examples of a band getting less good with a sound change. Their first trio of albums was excellent, but the following albums weren't as good as they transitioned to a less death-metal inspired sound. Their upcoming album should be a return to form though.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I have Dimmu Borgir on the list but I was going to talk about the shift that was on Puritanical as that one was definitely a noticeable shift to bigger production and a more polished sound. I lost interest with them after In Sorte Diaboli but that would be a good one to talk about as well as Cattle Decapitation. I agree that Monolith to Inhumanity was the beginning of their new sound and I think it's been a great shift. It's still brutal as hell but it has unique melodies namely due to Travis's bonkers vocal range. I like the old, grindier stuff but there's an argument to be made they're better. I'm holding off on Whitechapel being on the list until I hear their new album. I really dug The Valley but Kin was bland as hell so I'm curious where they go from here.

[@hayden9553]

Job for a Cowboy has evolved every album to where they are today and I love every single one. Deathcore - Death Metal - Tech Death - Prog Death, it's all amazing

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- That's one that definitely on the list for a follow up to this one.

[@filipdzero8739]

I wonder when did you record this, because I see Opeth in the title and ummm... They kinda surprised everyone with "§1". (not to say the point doesn't stand, even though I love ICV, but...)

[@HornsUpNC]

In Flames we used to trust. Totally agree

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I remember when I used to say that slogan out loud without a sigh or a hint of sarcasm in my voice. Been a long time since those days sadly.

[@HornsUpNC]

@@thrallsofmetal It sure has!

[@robertsparling917]

Sanctuary [which was Warrel Dane's band before Nevermore] changed their sound when they reunited. Their first two albums were thrash and their third, which came out in 2014, The Year the Sun Died, had a more progressive metal sound similar to what Warrel was doing in Nevermore. As for other bands, Sentenced changed their sound after their second album and stayed that way for the last six before disbanding in 2005. A lot of fans hated the crooning vocals from Sentenced's second vocalist.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Yes, those are definitely all bands for sure.

[@Skycladatdusk78]

I liked the mid period Sentenced albums, that run from Amok to Crimson, the last two pretty much abandoned most traces of metal but still had some good tunes. A band I truly miss but sadly their guitarist and main songwriter passed in 2009 so I doubt they'll reunite ever.

[@jarlwhiterun7478]

Enslaved would be my number one band to watch evolve, even slightly more than Opeth and Mastodon

[@Michael-yh5gn]

Really enjoyed this video…👍

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man!

[@tcswag801]

Good stuff bros 🤘

[@TwoToneHatch]

Aside from those in the thumbnail, Anathema comes to mind!

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- We've still got a lot on our list for this subject so we're definitely going to do more of these videos in the future.

[@stevsh89]

I'm probably in the minority where I love their transition era (Silent Enigma to Judgement) the best. Also love Weather Systems but their last 2 bored me to tears

[@thrasherdude8674]

Would be cool to see you guys talk about Gojira’s Possessed Demo when they were still called Godzilla maybe even do a review on it straight up death metal in that era super killer and basically album quality production.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- We might do that as a retro review at some point. We've jammed that demo before and it fuckin' rips. I'd love to see that get reissued one day too.

[@matternicuss]

Mastodon's sound hasn't necessarily gotten worse, but I do think Crack the Skye was their last great album as a whole. Nothing since that album has really stuck with me. They're still a great band though.

[@lamentate07]

Re: In Flames. I don't like what they became after 2002, but it probably allowed us to appreciate their 90's work even more with time. I doubt they could have improved upon that style much as they weren't as progressive as DT.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I can agree with that honestly. I go back to older In Flames more often after all the diminishing returns of their newer stuff and honestly I probably appreciate on a different level now. Yeah, I don't think they had the songwriting chops to keep up with Dark Tranquility either.

[@Masterdebater1313]

A non review episode idea, an "ask us anything" part 2, but with Rin!!! No disrespect to Miller, but Rin is fucking hilarious!!!! Matter o' fact, I'll go ahead and throw out my question for "ask us anything" part deux, if you could build a supergroup of only deceased musicians, what would the line up be? And who is everyone's professional sports franchise of choice?

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- We're working on getting Rin back on. He's been working a lot here lately so he really hasn't had the time to do anything but that would be fun. Hold on to that question though because that's a good one.

[@joebee1459]

In flames is a rough one. To this day Behind Space is one of my all time favorite songs and i like some of the stuff on come clarity, but man, everything after that is almost impossible to listen to.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Artifacts of the Black Rain. Those riffs and melodies have lived rent free in my head since I first heard them over 20 years ago. Come Clarity was the last one to have some solid melodeath on it but after that it's really spotty to just plain bad in my opinion.

[@TheStrappingOldGrumpyLad]

My very favorite band that got me into the more extreme stuff comes to my mind, Hypocrisy. I'm on the better side with their change of sound. I really enjoy the first two straight up death metal albums of them though (although Masse sounds a little silly and strained with his novice, but also quite good, vocals, it has to start somewhere and he got better with Dark Funeral) and I feel it was better to change and mix stuff up more after Masse's depature and venture into the melodic death side and still be a heavy band. From The Fourth Dimension onward I have pretty much loved or liked every album with the exception of The Arrival that's just snooze me of how boring that album is to me with the exception of two songs Abyss and Departure that i actually like.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- They're on the list as well. That's a tough call for me because I love those first 2 but after that it's just loaded with killer albums as well. It's hard to even say what my favorite of the melodeath era is at this point honestly.

[@GlassThirdEye]

While magma and fortitude are very similar, magma is a much more interesting and creative album. Fortitude is just much more commercial and generic, but there are a few bangers on it. Grind and sphinx come to mind.

[@Shawner1000]

and i love what Whitechapel and Fit For an Autopsy are doing for Deathcore really branching out both bands change is for the better. imho.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Fit for an Autopsy have been a welcome surprise in terms of deathcore. I'm not much of a deathcore fan anymore but I dig that band. As for Whitechapel: I loved The Valley but I did not care for Kin so I'm going to wait for the next album to say if they changed for the better. My favorite from them is still This is Exile as it stands.

[@SpecialAgentBillMaxwell]

"Desensitized"-era Pitchshifter was excellent. Listen to that album if you like Godflesh, I wish they would have kept that sound.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I have that stuff as well as the later stuff so that band will definitely get covered in this series at some point.

[@planetos]

man, the Opeth change was a big one for me. I even walked out of their concert back in 2011 cause all they did was play the new material, which sounded like a completely different band, and NOTHING from the first 9 albums. I was like wtf is this? It felt like such a slap to the face to us fans. I'm all for musical evolution and not being stagnant, but to change that drastically from one album to the next and stay that way? Like why not put "Opeth" on hiatus and start fresh under a new band name? I would have been way more understanding and forgiving it if was done that way.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I didn't get around to seeing Opeth until they toured on Heritage so I probably saw the same tour with Katatonia in support. The pretty much only played Heritage, a few from Watershed and one from Damnation. I still thought it was a decent set but I definitely wanted to hear some of the older stuff. Thankfully the next time I saw them they were playing the old shit mixed in with the new shit so I was good with that set. I think Mikael didn't want to make a side project because he wanted that prog direction to be Opeth and have the Opeth brand attached to it. Maybe the label told him they wanted it under the Opeth banner too. It's hard to say.

[@psychedelicfella]

So strange, I saw them touring for Heritage too, but they only played two songs from it. They must’ve been varying their setlist alot

[@zacksguitarhacks6390]

Mikael owes you nothing, just remember that. It always was his music In the end and always was him putting his soul out there for you to consume and digest and criticize.

[@NocturnalSilence45]

This was a fun video to watch. What happened to the rest of your crew? Shredlord has been gone the longest. Rin disappeared back into the void somewhere. Lol

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Actually you'll see Shred and Miller in the next one. We're trying to get Rin back but we've all been so busy here lately it's been difficult.

[@angus2517]

I bought Symphonies of Sickness when it camd out just having discovered extreme metal and it blew my mind . And , John , wouldn't you say Morbid Angel got better after Altars of Madness ?...

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I didn't get into Carcass until later when I snagged Heartwork which became one of my favorite albums ever honestly. LOL! I think he would but I would too at least in the case of Covenant.

[@Swullmark]

Oh man, bands evolving and changing their sound is something I'll always respect just for the fact that not everyone can be the AC/DC of their craft and do the same album 1000 times over and be good every time... but man oh man sometimes it can be abysmal haha. A few I like: Metallica: ...And Justice For All - The Black Album - Load Personally having grown up with hard rock being my primary introduction to music (Skynyrd, Aerosmith, Guns N' Roses, etcetera) their shift to a more commercial sound was a non issue for me. Load and ReLoad are in my top five Metallica albums personally. Pantera: Power Metal - Cowboys from Hell This one is legendary and it's obvious why, going from basically a glammy Kiss or Judas Priest Tribute band to one of the heaviest, grooviest most aggressive bands of all-time, creating cult classics and having some of the most iconic musicians of all-time. White Zombie / Rob Zombie: Astro Creep: 2000 Songs of Love, Destruction and Other Synthetic Delusions of the Electric Head - Hellbilly Deluxe: 13 Tales of Cadaverous Cavorting Inside the Spookshow International From an industrial groove powerhouse, to a nu-metal masterpiece... Superbeast, Dragula, Living Dead Girl, Demonoid Phenomenon, Spookshow Baby. Absolutely phenomenal work! Some I don't like: Forbidden: Twisted Into Form - Distortion This is one that's especially annoying for me because Forbidden are one of my all-time favorites in the Thrash genre, and after the two instant classics of the genre that in my opinion, can be put up against Puppets or Ride The Lightning any day... Then came Grunge, and the Distortion album... the last album I'd even consider listening to by Forbidden until 2010's Omega Wave. Distortion was just fine, not great, and a huge step down from the previous two albums. Green however, in 1997 signalled the demise of Forbidden with the band going down a weird alt rock phase and not releasing another record until 2010's Thrash comeback. Testament: Low - Demonic While not terrible, I don't think this group can do any harm, but to be honest it's just stock generic death metal, it's good and all, but it's lost all of what I love about Testament. Judas Priest: Painkiller - Jugulator I don't even need to speak on this, Ripper Owens is a great metal vocalist and all but he can't replace Halford, and the quality overall just is such a step down in quality.

[@kierenbuckley370]

for me bands such as Parkway Drive and Architects dont sound anything like they did 10 plus years ago, its not to my liking anymore but they are now significantly more popular

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Yeah, both of those bands made some huge shifts and honestly I don't mind their early material when it comes down to both bands. Both of those moves felt more financially motivated too.

[@DeathTragedy666]

Here's my take on this: Bands that changed their sound for the better: Emperor, Enslaved, Cattle Decapitation, Behemoth, Mastodon, Deathspell Omega, Blut aus Nord, Paradise Lost, Katatonia, Dodheimsgard, Kittie (Spit and Oracle remain my favorites of all time, but their new record kicks ass), Lacuna Coil (they have found new agression on their last albums, color me surprised...), Schammasch, Carcass, Katatonia, Anaal Nathrakh (even though some of their later albums aren't as memorable, they became even more melodic which is an advantage in their case), Napalm Death, Death, Septicflesh. Bands that changed their sound for the worse: In Flames (even though I loved Foregone, personally), Gojira (I loved Magma, but the singles from Fortitude turned me off, I don't know why), Opeth (even though I was excited when I heard their new single, I still keep my hopes in check... you never know), Morbid Angel.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Necrotic Nick- Yeah, you've got some bands we definitely plan on bringing up when we do this one again in the future.

[@lucasvanti2200]

I really hated the trend of my favorite Doom bands going "depeche mode" style like Paradise Lost or My Dying Bride... thank god somehow they returned quickly to form

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Yeah, luckily those were only brief periods of experimentation but honestly I don't mind Paradise Lost's Host. I like a lot of Depeche Mode and industrial stuff so that one connected with me a bit.

[@carlosjantarada7212]

Finally, the "Betters": C.O.C. : I dig their Crossover stuff. But IMO the best was yet to come and while I'm not much into most songs on Blind, there's THAT song (talking about Vote With A Bullet, obviously). And wow! I saw the video when it came out and was totally blown away. Little did I knew the best was yet to come. Let me put it simple: I love Stoner and its derivates but if I had to pick one album... a single album... it would be Deliverance. Thirty years passed after the first time I was amazed by it and I simply can't stop listening to the damn thing. And while not considering it as good, Wiseblood is also a monster of an album. When it comes to the albums without Pepper they're still quality Sabbathesque releases and I really digged IX. Now despite Pepper's return I thought their last album was quite lackluster. Nonetheless I can firmly say I enjoy much more the latter Stoner/ Sabbath influenced vein COC adopted. Easy Better for me. Carcass: Hey, I don't care what the so called "true elitist Grindcore" folks say. Despite being a huge enthusiast of the genre, I always thought Reek Of Putrefaction to be horrible. Now... Symphonies Of Sickness is another tale as far as I'm concerned is already a really good (and hugely influential) Grindcore record. This is where I got into the band but... when a colleague in High school recorded me Necroticism ...Man! Simply blown away!!! Easily my favorite to this day. Ever since? Heartwork is excellent. I don't care what people say about Swansong. In my book it's almost as good as its predecessor and better than anything ever since. When it comes to their reunion, I think the only thing lacking is evolution. Since the band returned, they kinda dwell on the Necroticism/ Heartwork realm when every album from their first go was different from the previous. And fair enough... There's a point when one feels content with so much and elaborates on that. Still, they can pull really good songs and I enjoy many of them (mostly being on Surgical Steel). But in the end (and despite Necroticism being my clear favorite) this is a clear Better in my book.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Nostalgia plays a big part in me leaning more on the Pepper era of COC but I legit feel as though they all became stronger songwriters and there was just more to their sound overall in that era. Deliverance and Wiseblood are practically desert island albums for me. I have so many great memories attached to those albums and those songs are just so infectious. Carcass was born to evolve and that was clear by Symphonies that this band was getting better with each passing moment.

[@doctorphibes601]

"Blind" is so good. Came out in the same year as the black album by M. Both albums have similarities but Blind is so much better than the black album. Love the early hc stuff and the sludge stuff but Blind is a one of a kind 👌🏻

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- It's been a while since I jammed blind honestly. Every now and then I get and itch to listen to Vote with a Bullet but outside that I tend to skip right right to Deliverance. Animosity is such a ripper too. I'd pretty much call that a crossover classic.

[@doctorphibes601]

@@thrallsofmetal Absolutely..Phil Rind of Sacred Reich is a big fan of Animosity too btw 😎

[@KevinTarrant-by3fi]

Great video boys!

[@thrallsofmetal]

thnx

[@simplebutnotsolongname6642]

Comeback Albums and reunion albums discussion?

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I did a video for comeback albums awhile ago actually but we have talked about reunions in general as a broader topic so that might be a good one.

[@vorpalblades]

Defleshed had an awesome comeback. Gone 17 years, never missed a beat.

[@ZeedgeASMR]

I like Gojiras first 4 albums the best be far. The first 2 are personal favorites of mine. I can get behind their newer stuff but I prefer the earlier.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I just like it all but for different reasons. It's hard to contend with From Mars to Sirius for me as that album is still jaw-dropping but there's a unique appeal to all the albums.

[@joerazz91]

It might be my age speaking but I’m still gonna die on that hill and say for me in flames Reroute to Remain up to Sounds of a Playground Fading I consider the underrated era of the band. 🤷‍♂️

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I mean, it's all subjective and honestly it can come down to when you got into the band. I got into In Flames with Reroute to Remain and then went back and checked out their earlier material so I still have a soft spot for some of that mid period In Flames. When A Sense of Purpose came out though I really struggled with that one and pretty much everything after that. We all hear music differently though.

[@PiranhaWhale1]

Sucks y’all don’t like load, I really dig that album. Didn’t know it was hated until I joined the online discourse lol. Maybe one day it’ll click with some of you.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I've tried for years but I just can't get into it. It's just a bland rock album from a band that were punching well below their wait for that album.

[@PiranhaWhale1]

@@thrallsofmetal Cant agree, i think Wasting my hate, Hero of the day, bleeding me (i know you said thats the only song you like), until it sleeps, aint my bitch, thorn within are all bangers. I understand why you would think it is bland if you compared it to the older stuff.

[@shaynewest8757]

Bathory went bad, Voivod got better, Darkthrone keep changing to try and prove how real they are, In Flames fell off a cliff. Sepultura lost me with Chaos AD when they decided they wanted to be Pantera. I'm too old fashioned for down tuned groove metal, still each to their own.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Yeah, they're on the list but Jon really isn't familiar with them and I haven't jammed all the "viking era" stuff but the first 4 are pretty damn good. In Flames definitely lost me with their more recent stuff but honestly Chaos A.D. is still on of my favorite albums of the 90's in general.

[@Shawner1000]

In Flames definitely for the worse but when that actually happened is up for debate. I still love Reroute to Remain but after that it got a bit wonky.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- For me it was A Sense of Purpose that really put me off. I didn't find much I liked on that album at all and at least with Reroute to Remains through Come Clarity I could find more tracks on that I got into.

[@dmphax]

It was their song Alias that put the nail into the coffin for me, but tend to agree about R2R, that was the last album I liked all the way through.

[@deathbats3231]

You guys forgot about PANTERA!

[@papichulobr]

That was a massive change (for the better)

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- We didn't. They're just not in this first video. We didn't want to front load it since we want to make this a series.

[@AndDeathForAll82]

@@papichulobrTo an extent. I always felt like they overcorrected after VDOP. Power Metal, CFH, and VDOP was a perfect trilogy of musical growth. Then, they lost me.

[@papichulobr]

@@AndDeathForAll82 it's a valid point

[@boomertuxx]

The most rebellious thing to do regarding Pantera is to play Glamtera. The only band I know of where their heavier material is more popular.... which makes me wanna crank up Metal Magic even more 😂😂😂

[@VasseVIDZ]

"Against" is the best album from the "Derrick Green era"

[@bjwaters]

Sorry for not getting to this video right away, despite you teasing it to me in advance, but I suppose I have a few remarks on this topic. 😆 (Also, I want to put up front that I like these kinds of videos. I like these kinds of discussions.) Metallica - Yeah, this is a pretty obvious one; as you said, a lot of folks have thoughts about what happened with them. For my part, my Metallica opinions are kinda weird, as I came into metal in the late 2000s, so I didn't have any the baggage that folks built up in the 80s. I still like the Black Album. Sure, it's different, but I felt it was more of a distillation of their sound. Load and Reload were disasters, though, and I think St. Anger is actually an improvement over those. Death Magnetic was definitely a breath of fresh air, as I loved that album, but they lost their credibility again with Lulu, and later Hardwired was a disappointment as well. 72 Seasons was alright, but at this point, the band is probably in cruise control (and arguably, they've earned it.) So as you can see, this band is very "up and down" with me. However, I will agree that they've dropped since the 80s, so I begrudgingly admit that their 80s stuff still looms large over everything they've done since, especially Ride the Lightning. However, it could be said that a lot of big thrash bands changed in the 90s, with a lot of mixed results (you could probably do something on all the major ones from the 80s and their shift into the 90s). Metallica just feels like a bigger deal because they're that much of a bigger band. The higher you are, the further you have to fall. Linkin Park - Maybe a weird choice for this channel, but everything after Meteora was largely a let down to me. Hunting Party brought back some of the aggression, but the band really fell off when Minutes to Midnight landed, and I could tell right away. Some others that come to mind if you do another video on this: Iron Maiden and their recent shift into more proggy territory; Bolt Thrower (though I'll pick the newer sound over the old one any day); Death with their shift into prog; Black Sabbath after The Mob Rules; Dio maybe? (I don't know his later albums at all). Here's a few thoughts of bands you probably won't end up covering, as they're mostly power metal. 😝 HammerFall - This is hard to identify exactly when they changed, but they have changed. Their first four albums are incredible power metal, but listening to them today, they seem content at sticking to a more traditional metal style, similar to Judas Priest or Accept. I still like what they do (and I'm definitely going to check out their album that comes out this week!), but the speed and power has been lost along the way. They do a faster song every now and then these days, but I think I have to come to terms with the idea that they'll probably never go back to the classic sound they had at the start. Kamelot - This is a bit of a rough one, as I don't want to be unfair to the later albums, but the Roy Khan era was massive for me. I really do think he's one the best metal vocalists, up there with Dickinson, Halford, and Dio. Unfortunately, he had trouble and decided to step away from performing for the sake of his health, and it's not like Tommy Kaverik is a bad singer, and their new albums have some neat ideas, but the band isn't quite the same. Stratovarius - This one is rough as well. Timo Tolkki was definitely a drama queen, and I was supportive of the band to go on without him, but their albums without him have not really clicked with me. They went from a top-tier power metal band to a very average one, which is frustrating. I know there are folks who like the post-Tolkki era, but I just can't get into it. Nightwish - I started with Tarja, and I still think she's their best singer. While Annette and Floor are good, the band shifted away from symphonic power metal to this symphonic gothic progressive movie soundtrack thing. Maybe I need to jam their newer albums more, but the Tarja era will always reign supreme in my heart. Amberian Dawn - I mentioned these guys on the other video about debut albums, but they definitely dropped off hard after the first. I haven't listened to them all, so maybe they get better later on, but that first one was incredible and the second and third were blah. I definitely lost hope when they did that synth metal ABBA cover. (And I like synth metal!) Gamma Ray - Definitely got better after those first few albums, which were pretty rough. It was hard to be a melodic metal band in the early 90s. They worked it out though and made some great stuff in the late 90s. Trans-Siberian Orchestra - I mentioned them on the other video as well, but their later albums really are a mess. While every album is a concept album, Night Castle takes way to long to get where it's going and has very little music worth listening to, and Letters from the Labyrinth feel like B-sides from Night Castle. Well, I'm sure that was way more than you asked for. If you've made it this far, thanks for reading all my words. I know I tend to be long-winded with my posts, but I really do like these videos and the discussions they start. Keep up the great work. 🤘

[@Gregbaltzer]

Going back now the Black album sounds like the natural progression of the band, at the time when I was a young, angry metalhead I hated it. It's just to overplayed to enjoy it. I can listen to Load with more appreciation now that my wheelhouse has expanded. And if you take the few good songs from Reload and splice it with Load, after removing the bad songs you've got one really good hard rock album. I also forgive the band more now knowing what was going on internally and that it was James vs. Lars and Kirk with all the changes in the band, James being the one who hated it, and Jason hating it but not having a vote. James going as far as saying "it didn't feel like them" and "If Cliff had been alive he would have had an ally against all the changes in the band." But honestly the 90s was an identity crisis era for a ton of bands. Metallica was just the biggest target. If Voivod-Angel Rat sold like the Black album people would have screamed sellouts, but it didn't so no one did. If you watch the music videos for Voivod then fast forward to the video for Clouds In My House I don't know how that's any different from what Metallica did

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I mean, Harvester of Sorrow and Eye of the Beholder were definitely teasers that pointed toward the direction they headed but at least it was a balanced album and it was still thrash. The Black Album is OK but I still find it dull outside of a few tracks and I got so sick of hearing it all over the place so I'm with you on it being too overplayed to enjoy. Yeah, Load is still a sore spot for me and Reload practically doesn't exist to me. That was just a collection of b-sides disguised as an album in my opinion. If it was a side project or something I might have been more forgiving but it was Metallica. On the other hand I love Angel Rat. People dog that album but I think it's catchy and they were pretty transparent about it being a Rush worship album. I think they refined that sound on The Outer Limits though. I've never seen any of Voivod's older videos so I might have to check that out just because lol.

[@Gregbaltzer]

@@thrallsofmetal I really like Angel Rat too, and Outer Limits is a masterpiece, just wouldn't call it metal.

[@jmalinjapan7786]

I’m old enough to have got into Metallica before the Black Album came out. I bought it and I did listen to it a bit, I even tried to convince myself it didn’t really suck. But, it does. It’s just rawwwk. Honestly I blame the change in producer. I mean come on, I t’s in the name - Bob Rock. Such a shame, they were already selling out stadiums, they didn’t need to sell out themselves.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- By the time I got into Metallica that album had been out for awhile and might have been the reason I didn't get their earlier stuff until later. I just got tired of hearing what seemed like that entire album on the radio all the time. Yeah, I get that the album has a legendary status but it's boring as hell.

[@jmalinjapan7786]

@@thrallsofmetal Yep, really boring. I actually remember reading Lars whinging after Justice about how tough and tiring g it was doing the drumming live for those tracks and how he was sick of double bass drumming. If only they’d kicked him to the kerb then, who knows how good they could have got? He’s been their limiting factor for sure.

[@anttiojanen5481]

Katatonia is a rare case - I completely lost interest when they became more metal. The sad rock-era from Discouraged Ones to Last Fair Deal Gone Down was excellent and emotional. I still dug Viva Emptiness, but The Great Cold Distance was just lifeless. I don't know, they just sounded like they wanted to be Tool really badly. I have tried the subsequent albums several times, but I could barely finish a song.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- I get it. The divide between the eras are pretty big in terms of the style of music. I got into them with The Great Cold Distance so I got used to that sound first and then went to their earlier stuff. It took me a bit to get into that era (except for Tonight's Decision) but it did eventually click.

[@anttiojanen5481]

@@thrallsofmetal And I totally get that too. The albums that got us into a band will remain special to us. I love Brave Murder Day too. Even though Åkerfedlt's vocals are brutal as hell, the sound is really not that different to Discouraged Ones. Monotone and hypnotic.

[@thesonandtheheir]

I'm unaplogetic about my like of Load and Reload. There's a lot of filler but I'd unironically put Bleeding Me in my top 10 Metallica tracks.

[@takodabostwick8507]

I forgot to talk about In Flames, and I would agree with y'all. In fact, they're up in my top 3 for overrated bands. Definitely overrated. If we get an In Flames Ranking, I'm all in on that. I know that it would not be fun, but I would love to see how bad they got. This would be an interesting video. The lovers and haters of the band will be invested in the video I hope.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- We might do In Flames as a ranking one day but I can already tell you where my line is drawn lol.

[@Divine_Serpent_Geh]

I really miss Gojira’s “Terra Incognita” and “Link” sound. Much more raw and heavy, with lots of Death Metal influence. While still introducing those signature Gojira elements that made them unique. Got into Gojira when I was like 11 or 12, so it’s the sound I wish they had stuck with.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Tons of Morbid Angel worship on those first 2 and even still some left over on From Mars to Sirius too. I like their evolution though and while they've changed it's still recognizable as Gojira in my opinion.

[@Divine_Serpent_Geh]

@@thrallsofmetal Oh yeah, definitely still recognizable, but dare I say… not as heavy? Maybe it would better to say a different kind of heavy. Flying Whales is the song that I discovered them with, and I think in the grand scheme “From Mars to Sirius” is still their magnum opus imo, even though the first 2 are my personal favs.

[@PadanFain-yp2yz]

Sorry gents, but I saw this coming and I will forever argue that 80s Metallica and 90s Metallica are relatively equally great (not so much in influence but more so in quality). While I WILL admit to being biased, as I've come to this conclusion numerous times over the years in the way I was introduced to the band. As a teenager, I wasn't just given the first four to take in by themselves, rather through excessive radio play I was able to take in all of it up to 1999's S&M in the same spoonful. So basically I grew more comfortable than most in getting a Blackened followed right by Ain't My Bitch. But ofc I acknowledge the majority opinion lol.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Hey, different strokes for different folks. I've given a lot of the post Justice material fair shakes over the years but it's still just not for me. I totally get where you're coming from though as what you hear first can make the biggest impression on you and for me, while hearing tracks from The Black Album on the radio was pretty much an eventuality in the 90's, when I heard Ride the Lightning and then Justice not long after that it was that sound that had a bigger impact on me. I was also pretty into thrash in general at that point to since I had been jamming Testament, Megadeth, Overkill and Slayer before that so there might be a bias there as well lol.

[@connoro8525]

Would be curious to hear your opinion on Melvins long and schizophrenic career! No one album really sounds alike - except perhaps Gluey Porch Treatments and Ozma.

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- They have runs of albums that can be similar. That run from A Senile Animal all the way through The Bride Screamed Murder was all kinda in the same vein and even Houdini and Stoner Witch were close to the same gear. That whole discography is nuts and I'm still missing like a third of their albums honestly so there's weirdness in there I've yet to explore. They're definitely one for this segment though for sure.

[@asafoetidajones8181]

Also Karelian Isthmus is pretty different from thousand lakes, nevermind the shift into tuonela and following gradual coalescing into a stable blend of, I guess, contemporary adult oriented radio prog metal?

[@thrallsofmetal]

Necrotic Nick- Necrotic Nick- I'd still say that the first 2 are still death metal but the biggest shift for Amorphis came at Elegy which was vastly different for them. That discography has some really wild twists and turns in it.

[@asafoetidajones8181]

@@thrallsofmetal elegy is still DM imo just doomy melodeath with more folk influence, in the composition but not instrumentation. I think elegy might be my favorite from them. I grew up going to Finnish folk dances at two different Finn-Am historical societies and the melodies and cadences are very familiar to me as well as the kantelentar and kalevala related lyrics. I didn't like Karelian Isthmus when I first got into the band but now I'd put it third or fourth behind elegy and tales. It's also more similar to tales than I initially considered it to be, but obviously still different enough for me to bring it up as an example in this video. I don't really agree that tales to elegy is *as* huge a shift as elegy to tuonela. Anyway, their later career from universum on I consider basically all the same stuff just slightly better and worse examples, and ultimately it's actually pretty great even if it's not what a lot of fans want which is more of the first three.

[@lamentate07]

@@asafoetidajones8181 Karelian is like Paradise Lost meets Bolt Thrower.