Banes Go Boom, Why No Win?! - Is It IMBA Or Do I Suck?

Does Terran really need no micro? And is it unfair that Zerg players have to make decisions? This and more in today's episode of STARCRAFT TODA.... Ohh, wrong format!
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[@jtsyo8364]

First I was thinking why would you build a bunker if you see a nuke coming. Then I realized he was talking about real life.

[@Kerostasis]

Then again, in Starcraft, Marines or SCVs in a bunker will always survive a nuke, even if the bunker doesn't. Running away is still an option, sure, but the bunker does technically help...

[@eclipseeffigy]

​@@Kerostasisit would still be a rather poor decision to reactively build a bunker on the red dot when you hear a nuke is coming. 😅

[@DamianSzajnowski]

​@@KerostasisMore importantly youn the player, are likely to survive in both bunkers/scenarios, and continue to play 😅

[@bobsmith-gq2vt]

Lol

[@Psy-Krow]

hearing Harstem give him a "good job, i'm proud of you son" at 11:23 makes my heart joyful for Kildren finally getting the compliment his football-is-life and videogames-are-lame father never provided.

[@jamiechan5899]

Really like that when Harstem giving very serious advice at the end, like he could see a game where Kildren could have won.

[@ingainloggningsnamn]

Well I think we all saw a game that Kildren could've won during many a times.

[@chloesmith4065]

Yeah, I think we all saw a game the zerg could've won...This has probably been one of the more somewhat painful ones to watch... I found myself wanting to jump through the screen, take control of the zerg for like, 10 seconds, use larva to make units, build a couple tech structures, and give control back to the Kildren and see if he wins. This was so, so, so crazy, I wonder if people even watch the replay before sending it in. I wonder what the Terran thinks about this game. How does somebody see "Hm, I have 3.3k minerals floating and my enemy only has 52 minerals, but I'm just barely losing this engagement. This is so imba I better send it to Harstem!" And if this is ***Diamond*** on EU... Yuck, I thought they were better than NA?! Poor guy he's so close to being good. But why Broodlords? Maybe because he already has useless corruptors he wanted to get rid of? From the early BC meme...?

[@TriangleChloros]

I actually play 'one random BC into standard play' sometimes, probably for the same reason this terran does - the first BC can do terrible, terrible damage if the zerg got greedy and didn't prepare for it properly, and people at my level often *massively* overreact to it. A zerg who panic-buiilds ten corruptors and a spore-field in every base is a zerg I can then murder with a completely ground-based army. It probably (definitely) will stop working at some point, but for now it's a surprisingly effective trick. (Harstem is right about the brain damage, but I'm pretty sure that's unrelated.)

[@HellecticMojo]

Yeah, wasn't rushing a battle cruiser for secondary attack after hellions pretty popular for a while?

[@Name-ru1kt]

One bc should never do damage because the zerg has enough queens to deal with a single one. However the moment it is two bc or more now the zerg could be in a lot of trouble

[@wedgeantilles8575]

@@Name-ru1kt Are you for real? You expect people below GM to always have their queens in positon for a BC? Hell, we even see the absolute top Zerg sometimes messing it up.

[@Name-ru1kt]

⁠@@HellecticMojothe point of a bc is to buy time for your mech transition. Most likely the zerg won’t have anything outside of queens for anti air. Similar to banshee play but idk the difference

[@TriangleChloros]

​@@HellecticMojo I thought it was more common to continue BC production for a bit (hence the overreactions), but it's possible I'm even less creative than I thought. I certainly wouldn't have thought it was *that* out there until Harstem started talking like it was a candidate for BGMWSS. He's normally pretty nice to the opponents, too. Maybe it's just one of those things that doesn't get used at his level, so he's never run into it?

[@balazshajdu4612]

I am almost exactly this same MMR zerg, and loose often similarly to Terrans, so this vid was an awesome coaching lesson! Thank you Captain!

[@AntiDoctor-cx2jd]

do you build lots of banes?

[@hivetech4903]

How to make Masters: 60 drones by 6 minutes, 6 Queens, Spore-20 (start a spore in each mineral line at 4:20). Don't do any stupid crap like this guy... like a 3 or even 4 minute Lair (facepalm). Some pros in the meta prioritize bane speed over evo - I don't recommend it below Masters as most Terrans can't execute a half decent tank push below that. Double evo first.

[@balazshajdu4612]

@@AntiDoctor-cx2jd no not really, but always grow impatient with engagements and totally botch them...

[@2639theboss]

@@hivetech4903 It baffles me how many zergs dont get the basic premise of build fucking queens, build drones, and dont A move. Im absolute balls at RTS but getting Masters with Z was a breeze. Its past that point when youve gotta be good at managing spell casters where its pretty difficult.

[@SigilSC2]

@@2639theboss Even in low gm most of my games don't include spellcasters. I can use them fine, and will when the game state requires it but it's still just amoving armies at eachother - they're just slightly bigger and there's more purpose to the movements.

[@CanCobb]

The hive increases the diameter of the nutrient tubes visible on the hatchery/lair/hive. The Ultralisk is able to grow faster from the burrowed nutrient tubes that have been invisibly present in the Starcraft universe for 25 years

[@ukasz4684]

The problem is, the ultralisks can come out of hatcheries and lairs too. You just need an ultralisk den

[@elevati0nBW]

@@ukasz4684 all creep is connected, even if its not connected on the surface.

[@Name-ru1kt]

@@ukasz4684explain to me how any zerg tech makes sense then.

[@JcoleMc]

@@ukasz4684 Ultralisk Den acts like an organ secreting the hormones needed to mutate the larva

[@ukasz4684]

​@@Name-ru1kt idk, you tell me. I dont understand how most of it makes any sense. @JcoleMc so what? I didnt say anything about how ultralisk cavern works. All i said is that in order to make ultralisks you need ultralisk cavern, not a hive. if you get a hive, then ultra cavern and then lose the hive, you can still make ultras, can you not? So saying that larvae can morph into ultras because of some tubes in hive kind of doesn't make sense. Also i dont understand what "connected creep" has to do with it...

[@Mactakun]

“If your strategy sucks massive balls, then your gameplay will suck massive balls too.” - Harstem

[@DamianSzajnowski]

What if I, the player, suck massive balls? 😮

[@elevati0nBW]

zerg lore: the ultralisk and other zerg units get their mass from the creep itself, as well as the minerals and gas. the zerg is actually the creep: the zerg consume minerals and gas to make units from creep. iirc in the beta they literally ate the minerals.

[@shadowling77777]

Om nom nom yummy

[@RobertBMenke]

What I love about watching these videos is that the people who write in make so many of the mistakes that I do. I always end up with a few takeaways for my own games.

[@montana5204]

Zerg claims that the terran is literally just building marines and marauders and yet has a more diverse army composition while he's the one stuck on ling/bane with no idea how to transition out of it with questionable brood lords and no macro hatches. He had plenty of time to get lurkers as well or even just ultras...

[@Taunt61]

difference is zerg loses if he doesn't tech up. as seen here.

[@hivetech4903]

@@Taunt61 If by not teching up you mean late upgrades, then yes that's correct. But I've beaten sub 4K Terrans with just ling/bane and this Zerg could've done it too... he needs to learn the basics. He had no build... and starting 2-2 at 14 minutes is just not a thing. The Terran's upgrades were also late but he could do this with a more solid opening build, and he also teched up in a way that formed a recognizable non-whacky army comp.

[@aaabatteries9948]

@@Taunt61 nope the zerg didn't lose because he didnt tech up. as a matter of fact making brood lords was ONE of the reasons why he lost the game. As harstem pointed the zerg didnt have enough larva but was throwing away units like nothing. He also wasnt mining any gas from his 4th and 5th base which left him with a lot of minerals and not enough gas and if you are making a lot of banes and as well teching up you need all the gas you can get especially the ones in the 4th. Ultras would have definitely helped but that was not the main reason.

[@Name-ru1kt]

Ling bane is the best unit comp you can actually go for against this terran. And pure ling at the end. Teching up would be a huge mistake by the zerg. The major complaint from the zerg is terrans can play the exact same thing all the way up to 6k gm and still win majority of their games which is incredibly true. The thing is zerg was designed that way to be responsive. I guess you could try copying some of erik builds maybe

[@chloesmith4065]

Broodlord transition was probably the attempt to spend some of the resources... Ultras or lurkers would've been wonderful.

[@kildren961]

you know guys acually I must admit I am dumbass I can see now that I am playing completly braindead I really think after seeing that I might have some kind of brain damage at least it was fun episode you can make fun of me as much as you want to everyone reading that have a nice day :D disclaimer acually I dont play againt ai not playing sc2 a lot lately I just like having high apm XD

[@eclipseeffigy]

This comment is the written equivalent of high but useless apm: lots of words, but lacking punctuation to navigate the word vomit. 😂 In all seriousness, good effort, and cheers for providing this replay for our entertainment. Have a nice day!

[@abyrvalg_]

gg wp

[@dbo3akrowdy]

As a terran player, diamond zergs would win way more if they just consistently attack from two angles with ling/bane. Especially on creep.

[@platinox6404]

this was probably one of the more interesting episodes. The guy was decent at the game, just lacks some understanding in a couple area's

[@JohnsonTheSecond]

Answer to the larva question, how roach larvae can be the same as ultralisk larvae? Compare human sperm to whale sperm

[@KumarBendrake]

Hey! Do that challenge, Harstem!!! One Battle Cruiser into standard play! Does that work? People start panic building spore crawlers and corruptors for you to show up with marines and tanks?

[@HellecticMojo]

It used to be a pretty popular opening against zerg.

[@rozmarinideas5340]

Y'know, I used to complain about how IMBA the other races were. The cure for that was actually playing them and realising how hard they can be.

[@evernewb2073]

I've tried that, it's why I genuinely believe that Zerg is Imbalanced up until you get to maybe the top 3k or so players on the planet (I'm far to bad to give a better guess as to where that line actually is) with the gap narrowing as the skill level goes up. from what I understand and even from looking it over objectively piece by piece the races really are fairly balanced if you're trying to play them near the current peak against someone near the current peak but since everything is balanced around how much meaningful apm a player can make that all goes completely skewed the moment the players aren't trying to semi-micro 2-6 engagements at once and place a base in the middle of it...funnily enough I would actually agree that ghosts are imbalanced _and_ that they are too strong...just not that that is a good thing for the terrans: ghosts are a straight up requirement for so many things in the game _and_ balanced to be both micro intensive and threading the needle on their opportunity to use their tools and not die, this means that literally 1 slightly off-position click or a tenth of a second of lag spike is likely to cost a terran the entire game no matter what they do afterwards.

[@mikhailn1774]

Really like this Editor’s Note with description of what is BNAD: it’s obviouly “BAD”. Was it trolling with typo? )

[@setroid8235]

N is right next to B. It's easily fat fingered.

[@arthaskew]

16:44 you need to think, how quick can I reproduce. Harstem, 2023

[@shadowling77777]

30 seconds, flat

[@chloesmith4065]

"How quick can I reproduce...And how much am I going to lose?" 💸

[@fongelias]

a lot of this complaint sounds like the typical complaint against zerg (minus the 'cheap'-ness of the units)

[@burgesj7]

I like the video's when Hamster inserts more content. Do more of your funny hamster!

[@user-ru1yv1ve9f]

There we have another zerg player who use auto crip spread soft (on 18:08) when he controlled his queens with the crip tumor's making at the same time

[@jeromevent4548]

literally the second before that you can see him select the creep tumors and not the queens

[@yuisenpaii8510]

"The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now. This is not the case when it comes to nuclear strikes." lmao

[@daydreamers8254]

20:03 hehehe "top bottom corner" that was funny ;p

[@MatthewToussain]

This is the most glowing review of gameplay I have ever witnessed.

[@TheTykk]

Kildren need against tank/marauder hydra/ling. Also big problem if u waste all your banes and same time oppenent attacking you.

[@Name-ru1kt]

Well a lot of the time using the banes is the right call here since his opponent hardly ever had a lot of marines. Thats actually the biggest issue in these ling bane armies is people not knowing whats a good ling to bane ratio. Since control varies widely it makes it even harder to judge. Makes it even harder when sometimes you surround sometimes you don’t ext.

[@Whoisthis911]

i really dont get why zerg dont send one overlord (or an overseer) to just shift-path over the enemy base - or drop changelings at the edge of first base. Its borderline free scouting, even the terran would have to pay more in scans to get such wide info gathering.

[@abyrvalg_]

Zerg have to multitask as hell. Inject hatcheries, spread creep, manage saturation, doing runbuys, upgrades, etc., etc. Also not everyone on diamond level has Harstem's level of understanding game.

[@chloesmith4065]

I feel you but how do you get to diamond without scouting enemy production at all

[@abyrvalg_]

@@chloesmith4065I mean I know I should do it, but it is unclean in what consequanses you should scout. Most B2GM are focused on basic scouting/unit composition.

[@daydreamers8254]

lmao the drawingin the bottom right is one of the main reasons i watch these and this one is hilarious

[@HappyTwoBe]

6:05 Harstem should watch some meomaika. I'm surprised he's "never seen a hydra den pre 4th base/pre evo chambers."

[@Etropalker]

15:19 Not an issue. All mammals start as single cells of roughly the same size, and yet: Human gestation period: 9 months. Result:~4kg human Blue Whale gestation period: 12 Months. Result: ~2000kg blue whale

[@ligreze]

Building hydra den, making double upgrades and not producing any hydralisks in next like 8(?) minutes is kinda wierd :/

[@jabalisearcot]

I love that harstem was smiling all the way through at the end. Some inside joke?

[@3v1lp1ngv1n]

For the larva question look up world's tallest man meets world's shortest man. They were both born the same way and this is without the involvement of abathur.

[@WoobertAIO]

Holy crap, is Harstem okay?! It's the first time I've seen him say nice things!!

[@stevef68]

I was thinking I haven't heard a good rant about minerals over gas in a while!

[@jasonconstant455]

You rock Harstem! Love the videos

[@IcedLance]

Bnad is: 1) A group of renegade musical terrorists 2) Possibly Gregorian Chant Society 3) Most likely a white noise brigade 4) Referring to the Lady Godiva Memorial Bnad of the University of Toronto's Faculty of Applied Science and Engineering

[@peterkutz8792]

I could relate so much with the zerg though. I guess I suck too. But I learned a lot from it. Thanks Harstem❤

[@d07RiV]

Has there been a single approved IIIODIS? Can anyone link if so?

[@Metalmade86]

Against a heavy maurauder count, having 8 corruptors is actually quite good, because its constantly reducing the medivac count and forces the terran to keep building them instead of libs. My Lategame comp against terran bio consists of 8 corruptors, ling, bane, ultra and infestor. Its a strong hit and run composition. You can easily snipe bases and if the terran gets hit by a fungal, ultras will shred them to pieces.

[@electricitybomb]

I see the terran's 2 facs and 2 ebays: wtf

[@Busterchase10]

Yay

[@You-ul8qw]

Nice stubble you got there captain, 8/10.

[@strammerdetlef]

What a bnad video!

[@CasualCosta]

15:10 On the update of why Ultras are huge and take the same time to produce, it could be explained as a form of (re-)productive curbing with other eggs. There's an interesting lecture from a Stanford professor where he explains that babies of whatever species don't grow as much as possible because the mother's body uses enzymes to slow growth down in order to prevent body damage and also to prevent the baby from sucking too much insulin, killing her in the process. So, if we apply this to a hatchery, it produces hormones to limit mineral and vespene consumption in order to prevent the egg from consuming all the resources from the swarm. I don't think Blizzard knew any of that when they made ultras and just made a cool unit for a cool game. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXyxcq2iYr2Baqs

[@Cheshire9k]

Zerg saying Terran needs to micro KEKW

[@frederickpallas7130]

In the oncoming merger,id say dutch waterpolitie have(have the right to go) to go to Sylt and För .I Hate radicces and other vegetables.and Tables are a affront ,just generally speaking

[@muffinsmuffins8074]

Stamp sound but no stamp animation… you are treading on thin ice mr. Editor…

[@TouchthisiProduction]

ey yo.. 3:57 i've seen indiana jones, isnt a fridge enough for as a bunker?

[@basicuser54]

Cap finally shamed me into pulling out of gas… I can already see how pissed im going to be when I forget to put back in

[@skipperg4436]

Ultras are inflatables - that's how they can fit in the egg - just like a bouncy

[@ds8867]

this zerg never played terran before lmao

[@narangood42]

Sound like Lowko

[@min009]

My man keep making banes all game long even with the Thor switch.

[@zaticTL]

It was so painful to see all these banes being morphed against almost pure marauder tank. Just one round of pure hydra (he even had full hydra upgrades already!) followed by pure ling would have won this easily

[@abyrvalg_]

Wait a sec, are you trying to cheat me again? Dude built "Thors" and lurkers suck against "Thors". Also aren't Ultras armored? Dude built a lot of marauders to counter mass banelings.

[@assault410]

Wouldn't the second best time be 19 years ago

[@dbo3akrowdy]

As a terran player. Zerg, please continue to throw away your entite baneling army taking out my planetary and not having enough larva on the back of it to defend the counter attack. Thank you for making it easy for us.

[@Bersling]

Actually the saying "The Best Time To Plant a Tree Was 30 Years Ago, and the Second Best Time To Plant a Tree Is Now" is perfectly applicable to that situation or would you have preferred the player to never build an overlord again?😀

[@noobo56]

Edit: never mind I’m wrong! I don’t remember what we decided, but doesn’t the Terran victory screen mean that this is the Terran’s replay, and so the Terran submitted? Or am I mistaken?

[@isaacyee1390]

The one who submitted was the Zerg, and they're saying Terran's imba cos they lost against them

[@noobo56]

I understand that. I’m talking about 23:01, which shows a victory screen for the Terran. If this replay is owned and submitted by the Zerg, I think that should be a defeat screen for the Zerg, right?

[@HurrisonTea]

@@noobo56 when you watch a replay, you probably always see "victory" and never see a defeat. But on my replay UI, I don't see any of those

[@alymac163]

Nah probably because it's a replay not a live match. You can see the last person to leave was the z , if it were t replay it would be two names.

[@noobo56]

Ahhh right that’s how this works okay thanks! :)

[@deeteenw]

If you feed the Larva more healthy minerals and pump it up with more gas, it's getting bigger, this is why ultras cost more, duh.

[@Fummy007]

My le banes went le boom? no

[@metalselectselect9614]

People, is there a video out there where something is really imba?

[@bac1308]

There was a half joke one with I think Reynor. You're not likely to see one in the future either though, unless they bring in a lot more pro replays. The objective here is more of a coach and roast than it is to truly find balance issues.

[@metalselectselect9614]

@@bac1308 ... yes or not?

[@abyrvalg_]

@@metalselectselect9614 I saw once neutral: neither imba nor you suck. Saw no imba sadly (because everyone suck at some point).

[@eclipseeffigy]

No-- sc2 isn't perfect but it's frankly rather well balanced between races, to the point other issues will dominate the matchups before a race diff. These other issues are what people get roasted on. 😇 ... but if you send in a replay where the 10 range colossus bug commands the game, I'd wager he'd call that imba... 😅

[@eclipseeffigy]

Oh, there is one; the player was vs uThermal doing a challenge. Harstem gave a sort-of imba stamp: it was ruled uThermal was imba. 😂

[@lysy-zn2gg]

Kildren complains about terran spamming marines and maruders (and mules, but he forgets that zerg get free map control and can spam 20 drones in 1 seconds) but he himself only spams lings and banes lmao

[@Evil_beanos]

I feel like the guy I have just played against is going to call zerg imba xd

[@strongerandwiser2023]

I feel like he played really well for his MMR. He should have won this game for sure and I feel his pain because most of my zvt look like this. Terran are so hard to counter and kill because of the planetarys etc. I personally think the planetary is overpowered and should perhaps be removed from the game. No other race has that huge advantage of having a single building that can stop run bys and repairable to the point where it cant be killed without a huge army. Seems a bit unfair IMO but hey.... That aint going to change so we just have to accept it. I still think this guy was the better player and should have won here.

[@peteelliott1241]

Damn. My strategy sucks massive balls.

[@daydreamers8254]

18:22 i don't see HOW it's possible for the zerg to lose at this point... he's got like 2200-2400 overall resources vs 50mineral/900gas terrran completely out based

[@currenteventsenthusiast9477]

Bruh did you see his micro… that’s how

[@ToTheNines87368]

0:47 please don’t do that.

[@ukasz4684]

TL;DR terran salt I dont understand how can the zerg look a this game and say that terrans macro is easier and that terran doesnt have to micro I mean zerg was throwing almost all of his army at the planetary, snipe it and then when terran comes in for a counter attack: zerg out of nowhere just spews out 54 lings, 16 banelings and he can defend easily, while if the terran loses his whole army vs zerg its often game over, because terran needs much more time to replenish his army. How is this possible that constant expansion of your production and having to be careful not to lose your army in one fight, is easier, then "look at me, I press larva button and hold z (or whatever) and zergling printer goes BRRR". Ohh yes, but as a zerg you have to do injects, and thats the hard part of his macro. Yeah, fair. Maybe in grandmaster where you actally have to be on point with spending your money, but noone is gonna convince me that this zerg couldnt invest some of this 3k minerals bank into macro hatcheries... Or just make any other units from larvae than lings. His argument about micro was even more amusing. The zergs micro through this entire game was just a-move. Thats all. Maybe sometimes move command and then a move, but he did so badly that it would be better to just a move anyway... like this dude complains about terran micro and then splashes like 15 banes into thors. Meanwhile terran has to split, run back with parts of his bio that are being chased, always shoot with the other parts, meanwhile manage tank position and siege. Of course this terran was shit at this, and thats the only reason why he was doing so badly vs pure ling bane. No hydras, no mutas, no lurkers. The fact that this guy almost won by amoving only tier1 units constantly, because the terran wasnt on point with his micro, just proves how ridiculously easy the zerg micro is, at least until you are both in high league and late game, when you have to use both vipers and infestors. I couldnt believe that this replay was paired with that complain form so much, that when i was watching it with my gf i started making theores, that probably it was the terran that sent the replay, not the zerg, and everything he accuses zerg of, he converted it to terran in hope, that the zergs are gonna get roasted. Thats the only reason I can imagine why someone would write that. You cannot seriously look at this replay and say, that in zvt its the terran race, thats imba, easy to macro and doesnt have to micro. Cmon Ye ye, terran salt ikr. Nobody got here anyway Great vid harstem nontheless

[@cavemantero]

hilarious. Baneling is the most busted unit in the game. All you have to do is attack with a distraction army and roll banelings into the mineral line and command center or their other army and GG.

[@jeffreywarf]

gotta wall your mineral lines at the very least. maybe leave a few tanks at home

[@samrands5967]

You can't accuse your opponent of being bnad after a moving 50 banes into thors and not even killing them. Pretty pathetic kildren

[@evernewb2073]

a Zerg player complaining about _Terran_ having to easy of a time macroing...uhhhh...yeah, no, there is no way I can imagine this being a real complaint.

[@Deipnosophist_the_Gastronomer]

Terran IMBA!

[@bastooo3]

i think that was just one of his worse games and he didnt realize that it was just that. because otherwise he wouldnt be 3,7k with bad macro, bad fights and making the wrong units. shit games just happen ^^

[@veilnebula2411]

is the picture supposed to be an ego comparison lol. the guys has got a huge ego.

[@ddenozor]

but then imagine losing to that Terran depiction.

[@waiora8387]

Harstem is lying, i saw the all hydra video

[@JohnSmith-mo6re]

The balance in TvZ is indeed bullshit - it's imbalanced in favor of Terran - but Kildren also made the same mistakes I see in the pro games too. Direct attacks are generally bad in TvZ you kind of have be more tactical ENTIRE map-wise in order to win. Beginning Zerg builds I'll never understand how they got so popular but they're basically shit after 10mins. You HAVE to mix it up. I'm talking namely the roach-ravager and ling-bane builds. You can't keep those and INSIST on their working. You can't putsch and brute force the way Terrans just build the same crap over and over can. Whatever your strat is at about 7-8mins you need to start switching it out so you have a diff army comp by 10mins. Terrans are too overpowered so with stim they just run away, and if you try chasing they will outrun you and the seiges in the background will take half your army out before you even get there. So don't even bother. Attack something else. Lings are your ONLY chance to catch them if you still insist, and only if you're within a certain range, so if you have enough you can run in and either take the tanks as the army retreats or just sort of "swarm the crowd" to basically get in their way to slow them down whilst the REST of your NON-zergling army catches up to do some serious damage. But you need a solid number because lings are easily wiped with the MMM combo. Terrans basically only need like 5-6 medivacs and can sit there for forever healing and destroying. So if you don't have enough lings, DON'T CHASE. Power shot units like banes and ultras need to be used as a SECONDARY run-in line, like after your main line has got them to STOP and engage. Don't chase with those either. Because marauders just slow tf out of them all enough to get sniped or tanked out. And once again even if Terran get hit they can quickly heal back because of medivacs. People might talk about oh just mine more then you can justify wasteful exchanges. Well I review my own games A LOT. And I think people completely UNDERestimate the Terran income level, and how easily it is for them to hoard monies and rebuild their armies. The income and money saving ability of Terran is DISGUSTING. So that said, when you "devastate" a Terran army, it just heals up quick because of medivacs, and then builds up more units, and that's how they are able to slowly accumulate, while you slowly drain out your bases. And whilst you think when you engage them in battles "oh it's still even" the reality is they've been doing this off like 4 bases, whilst Zerg keeps needing to expand. Eventually monies run out and Terran can just come in with their ball and wipe you out, expansion after expansion, then take over. For Kildren's build, I agree with Harstem - simply just not building fast enough. For reference I play vs Very Hard AI, and I think post-patch their algos got reworked. So they very often can max within 11-13 mins. The quickest pros I've seen max in under 10. So personally I'm always trying to max out in about 12 mins. And that includes all the ongoing attacks that are happening. The best gauge I'd say is under the first 7-8 mins you should be DRAINING your account just constantly BUILDING. WHATEVER it is, spawn the larvae, upgrade evo, whatever. If you see your monies over 1,000 you need to spend it somewhere. Ling-banes later on are only good for diversion, random harass, or harass on a NON-planetary expansion. For planetaries, it's better to take like 3 corruptors and just corrosive bile. Then you can fully focus on the other stuff elsewhere. Only move the corruptors when they attack. You are basically testing reaction time too. Muties are still underutilized/underappreciated. They are pretty good as an assistant attack. Like 6-8 muties. They are either spread obscuring vision on Terran's own army, or you can focus fire on medivacs whilst the ground army is dealing with the rest. The extra tic-tic-tic from 6-8 muties adds up pretty quick! One thing I'm heavily playing with now is NYDUSES. The creep can also work to stifle Terran building out. I have 2 nyduses, sometimes 3 in a ctrl group and I can just build in an instant. Use scout overlords, or for reinforcements during attacks. Its VERY effective to build 2 then pop another 2 elsewhere. Attack one place, then rather than engage fully with Terran (again, because of overpower), just retreat back into the nyduses, exit into another area and then attack again. I don't think Terran have an effective strategy against that. For those who don't know, you can select multiple nyduses and then Unload SIMULTANEOUSLY. It's EXTREMELY quick to unload a full army just in the middle of nowhere. So that's my take - Kildren built too slow, ling-bane suck after 7-8 mins, MUST MIX more units in armies! Terran absolutely imba, but I guess we can only work with what we got.

[@chloesmith4065]

@JohnSmith-mo6re nice comment but I think mentioning vipers, infestors, lurkers, would be good here. Terran isn't imba if you actually have the right units. Maybe you can't catch their army out in the open by default but you can viper pull or fungal snare them and they have trouble pushing into lurkers without ghosts (this Terran was never forced to get ghosts)

[@JohnSmith-mo6re]

@@chloesmith4065 Spellcasters are often a waste of cash because they just get sniped or bombarded by all the other units they have. Ghosts can snipe AND EMP. Viper pull is useless against large engagements and they are so expensive. Snipe is WAY too powerful. Fungal is definitely good, but the reported range of 10 is false during live play (no idea why), and usually tanks take it out because they have to walk up so damn close (not at 10 range). Terran don't have to worry much about lurkers with seige tanks in the back, they have practically unlimited scans, which again is another ease in SC2. Terrans actually had to manage scans and could ACTUALLY run out of scan in SC1, but in SC2 they never seem to run out, it's simply too easy. On approach too, lurkers are easily slowed with a ton of marauders + extra dmg because lurkers are armored, and we haven't even considered when the liberators start Defending. By the time the lurkers are ready, liberators are setup and nailing them. Whatever's left that is, from marauders and seiges.

[@f1shze4lot]

Terran doesn't need micro lmao what a joke

[@f1shze4lot]

And coming from zerg player makes it even funnier

[@ingainloggningsnamn]

Zerg got the easiest when it comes to both macro and micro lol. Only reason Harstem for a moment thought the Zerg had better mechanics is because Zerg is so much easier to play at these levels.

[@Blezerker]

Any time i see a zerg submit one of these forms i just laugh

[@ingainloggningsnamn]

I don't believe that it is that the guy is better mechanically. Zerg is just a much easier race to play at these levels.

[@sussertod6663]

apm says no

[@2639theboss]

​@@sussertod6663Apm is literally worthless. Spm, or effective apm, sure. But apm no. I dont care how fast you can spam f2 right click if cant figure out how to hotkey your hatcheries, and hold the damn z key to spend your money.

[@Mactakun]

Disagree, I play Zerg (3770). And my Terran off race is higher mmr even though I’m significantly less experienced (3850)

[@Taunt61]

lol mech is the easiest thing in this game. park your tanks and kill shit what's so difficult

[@2639theboss]

@@Taunt61 Apparently the difficult part is watching the video where the T played bio the whole game. Mech isn't a viable strat for anything high-level at this point, even on the ladder at times.

[@nikospyridis9579]

The complain really sounds like a Terran complain if you twist it a bit damn. Both races complaining for the same thing.

[@AntiDoctor-cx2jd]

Zerg units are good at specific purposes while terran units are more multi purpose. This is why the mechanically better zerg fizzled out in the late game as it's harder to keep the specific counters going. Thors for example, were built as a brood lord counter, but they are fabulous against banelings while just standing there. I think they lose vs lings but it's not that bad like say having corruptors left over after the BC are gone.

[@ukasz4684]

The problem for terran is that he cannot adapt nearly as fast as the zerg. You cant play full bio and all of the sudden swing into mech, because you noticed that it will be better suited vs your oponnent. Zerg absolutely can (and should) do that. Of course upgrades are still limiting zerg to a degree, but zerg doesnt have to completely rebuild his production facilities, like the terran has, while all zerg units are made from larvae (or other units) Thats why terran units have to be more universal, otherwise terrans would be just countered to oblivion in every single match. After all its the zerg race that follows the archetype "improvise, adapt, overcome"

[@AntiDoctor-cx2jd]

The biggest mistake in this game was overbuilding banes. They simply cost too much to use like that. People might see dark kill a planetary with banes, but that's part of a multi-step attack and coordinated with other attacks. Dark doesn't run in a bunch of banes and then just sit back. That's a losing trade so you have to capitalize on the opening you created or it's just a losing trade. Banelings are actually not very good, they only work with a big eco lead.

[@kirito3082]

He did have the eco to back that out though, he just didn't spend it, the damage to the terran's economy would have been worth it otherwise

[@hivetech4903]

His biggest mistake by far was not knowing the basics of Zerg. Every time I see these sub 4K MMR Zergs go 3 minute Lair I just start laughing. The guy barely lost any workers to the Hellbats and still only had 40 workers at 7 minutes 😂No reason he shouldn't have had 60 drones at 6 minutes - that's the standard even at this level... so different types of units / tactics will not help him ladder up until he learns the basics.

[@HellecticMojo]

You just complain about terran

[@djuraster]

Race that can make 30 workers at once is complaining about terran making workers and army at the same time? Boy, these complaints are getting dumber and dumber...

[@moneygrab610]

I feel like most of these complaints anymore are just about the mechanics of the race and not one thing in particular.

[@HellecticMojo]

It does come into play, especially early game where every army made is worker not made.

[@svengalt9546]

Yeah I learned that terran is actually imba, and throughout the episode it was just reiterated. Terran can play like a clown taking constant loses. But what did we see? Kevin turning blue in the face spewing every tiny detail that the zerg has to correct to play absolutely perfectly against against clown terran. If you can't play on equal levels of clown, its not imba. But jokes aside, this was the most rapid and constant and rushed talking I've seen in an episode. Crazy how much zerg has to think and perfect just to stand a chance. Drawing on the form was not even a joke.

[@Taunt61]

it was a bit cringey when he had to criticize that overlord not starting like 5 seconds earlier. I mean that's nothing at this level, he defended the overlord well while macroing.

[@SharienGaming]

are you serious? zerg was just blindly tossing banes at marauders and tanks constantly instead of actually adapting their composition to what was happening on the map and they were sitting on a massive bank for ages oh and the early game critique of all that investment into the hydra den is absolutely valid... they made a completely blind commitment on hydras...and then didnt build any hydras for ages heck...when it turned out that the panic corruptors were useless, those could have been used as disposable scouts instead of doubling down and investing even more into making broodlords...which would have shown the terrans massive commitment to ground armies... which would have been a great time to utilize those hydras and move into lurkers to devastate any bio attacks... and of course those ling-bane runbys would then have been way more effective

[@johnkalyvas4838]

He clearly mentioned that the Zerg was in a winning position despite his flaws until he lost the 2 bases and therefore the income advantage. It was all downhill from there, and the Zergs army comp was adding fuel to the fire.

[@abyrvalg_]

Cannot argue with that, my man. I think the only real issue was the wrong composition in the end but as a zerg you always have to guess what is coming next. Dude started with bio which means - ling-bane (hydra?). Then dude sees BC and panic adds corruptors which is understandable. In diamond it is hard to understand if it is a single BC or a dozen. He transitions to the greater spire so he could somehow use his corruptors. Mech is pretty strong if you fought against bio terran all day.

[@jimhoxworth7462]

Just to name a few - the hellbat all in was done so poorly - he lost a BC to queens, which should never happen - he just afk’d helions in zerg’s base which if even controlled for 5 seconds could’ve got 40-ish drone kills, but he loses it for free and it doesn’t even impact the game - 0 attempts at splitting vs banes or target fire, but neither player micro’d in a fight so whatever I guess - he lost SO many workers to the same 2 types of attacks that could’ve been easily prevented or with any awareness just ran away from in time It’s hard to say exactly what they’re skill levels are off 1 game, but it’s clear the zerg is better. AFK rolling banes into suboptimal targets isn’t great but there were far worse mistakes made by Terran