BANNED, But Is It Still Good? Fastest Tour De France Bike Tested

[@gcn]

Which bikes should we take into the wind tunnel next? Let us know 👇

[@ironore8677]

Cervelo soloist and a canyon aeroad… I’m still in awe that there was a almost 70 watt difference between modern aero and the tt Did not expect quite that much.

[@tiesmeijer5036]

I would be very interested to see how well the Ribble ultra slr would do

[@zalethciano]

I think it will be cool to test a standar tt bike from the time of Lotus, to compare the data a see the diference of the Lotus

[@brucewayne964]

My bike...😁👍

[@KenSmith-bv4si]

@@brucewayne964, do you wanna test your Batbike ?

[@Nebulacore98]

Love the recent TT Bike content. GCN has done Road Bike vs TT bike but definitely wanna see a modern TT Bike vs a modern Triathlon bike-like maybe Cervélo P5X vs Cervélo P5 or something similar.

[@troycollett8540]

Or the canyon vs it’s triathlon mate

[@Nebulacore98]

@@troycollett8540 Yeah. Could do a Canyon Speedmax Time Trial setup vs Canyon Speedmax Triathlon setup

[@gcn]

We'll see what we can do! Would you like us to call up GTN for this one? 👀

[@Nebulacore98]

@@gcn Hell yeah! GCN vs GTN: Time Trial vs Triathlon?

[@andrewmcalister3462]

@@gcn Mark v Ollie .... in the wind tunnel.

[@leangrypoulet7523]

Back in the early 90s I was doing a summer internship at a well-known West London auction house. One evening, a later than normal finish, I walked through the main lobby whilst leaving and came across the 108 on a pre-auction display. Looking around I saw nobody about, (after hours), so plucking up the courage as a cycling mad teen, I picked up the bike, lifted it over the red cord divider, and placed it on the carpet. Climbing on board I rode it into one of the auction halls, did a couple of wobbly laps, before returning it to its perch. Amazing memory. 30yrs on I do wonder what would have happened had I fallen off and broken it 🤔😬

[@kevin._.farren]

Would love to have seen a mtb randomly included with this group, just for fun.

[@foldupaudi7645]

Or a leather couch😂

[@gcn]

Maybe we'll group together with the GMBN crew and get them un the tunnel! 👀

[@diesistkeinname795]

​@@gcnI would realy like to see how Graeme O'Brees ol'faithfull would hold up against modern bikes. Appeareantly it is faster than the Lotus 108, but is it faster than the fastest UCI legal bikes of today?

[@wyatberp3611]

Ya, then we could take the TT bike on a downhill run..

[@paulworth70]

Ollie in nerd heaven, fabulous, love it.

[@danielurbina9997]

It would be interesting to see a Lotus frame with modern wheels and components

[@gcn]

Great thinking! What would you spec the bike with? 👀

[@danielurbina9997]

@@gcn any top level modern spec will do ie Sram red or Shimano Dura ace coupled with a good set of modern carbon wheels and good modern tires.

[@michawasiljew6620]

Most aero groupset out there.

[@Lander76]

Fascinating test with surprising results. It would be very interesting to put up a regular endurance bike against an aero bike to see the difference in drag.

[@SuperPathfinder10]

na, old question has been done over and over over again. It's so old you need an old beared wind up machine for it.

[@Lander76]

@@SuperPathfinder10 has it been done in a wind tunnel by gcn?

[@SuperPathfinder10]

@@Lander76 maybe, tons of other sources - leading bike companys on YT. Google is your friend. Just takes seconds.

[@Hambini]

If the Orbea bike results are binned and to look at the two TT bikes. This test is quite misleading. You can quite clearly see the two positions that Ollie assumes on the Lotus and the Canyon are completely different. Ollie is in a severely compromised position on the Lotus because the discontinuity (technical term for the gap between the back of his head and his back) is drawn out on the Lotus where as it's much better tucked in on the Canyon. A helmet with a tail would be beneficial. If you are going to make a claim like the modern bike is 26W faster, the control variables need to be the same or at least much better than having the biggest contributor to drag (the human body)_ in compromised positions.

[@slowcyclist4324]

Honestly speaking that doesn’t matter. The main test is actually the first one done sans rider, which shows that despite old school riders claims, rim brakes and cables aren’t as advantageous stuff as most folks would have us believe.

[@schrodingerthecat]

This is some awesome scientific research! Thanks GCN, I love this stuff! The shot of Ollie wearing his helmet inside of the control booth of the wind tunnel at the beginning got me chuckling.

[@gcn]

Great to hear you love the deep dives! 🙌 Did you catch the GCN+ doc we made about the lotus? 👉 gcn.eu/7u6

[@ethangodridge6833]

Great video, thanks all involved.

[@gcn]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!

[@nicknameunavailable809]

I'd like to see an episode talking about the factors/science behind improvements in bicycle aerodynamics. Increased awareness of importance of aero Improvements in aero testing/modeling Changes in manufacturing technologies that allow cost effective production of aero parts Etc etc..... But great episode and fascinated with the numbers

[@AMPJ08]

I liked this content a lot! Thanks

[@juicebox1799]

I'm surprised you guys didn't talk about the angle of your head/helmet. I feel like that is a variable that can make an enormous difference. Maybe not! I don't know anything. Would love to see a video that looked at the impact of riding position on helmet aero performance.

[@PK-qq1lz]

Ollie looks so pro!!! I love that nerdy stuff. Thanks.

[@gcn]

As if his ego needed any more of a boost! 😂 Great to hear that you are enjoying the nerdy deep dives! We've got some great content over on GCN+ that goes even further! 👉gcn.eu/mikeburrows

[@KenSmith-bv4si]

Awesome video Ollie.

[@bikeanddogtripsvirtualcycling]

5:51 "we've done the runs" sounds so much better than, "we've got the runs" . 🤣🤣🤣 I'm pretty sure that the original Lotus bike was kept for a while at the two mills cycle cafe over on Wirral, Merseyside - just over the River Mersey from Liverpool. Im getting old now so my memory might be playing tricks and it was just a fantasy from the 90s. I'm sure someone here can put me right.

[@Star14trek]

Hi Ollie what about old Lotus vs Boardmans 9.8 TT bike ? The bike boardman produced with aid if British cycling 😁 How much faster did Boardman make it as a student of aero dynamics ?

[@gcn]

Oooo great shout! We'll see what we can do... anyone got one in the garage?

[@mmcarysxie5224]

Hope we can see Lotus 108 one day😋

[@gcn]

We have a documentary about the Lotus 108 over on GCN+! You can check it out here 👉 gcn.eu/7u6

[@wostrick2259]

The look of the Lotus 110 is unreached...just wow!

[@gcn]

It's a pretty striking bike! 😱

[@somerandom1757]

Just have to say, generally when someone asks to subscribe I'm ambivalent towards it, I'm normally subscribed anyway. but Ollies thankfulness and genuineness made me want to subscribe again! Love the work mate!

[@GCNuser123]

cheers pal!

[@GSYdrums]

If you do a follow up wind tunnel video, would love to see how the old school hand positions (praying mantis/ superman) would stack up compared to the UCI legal had position

[@jonnythelegs2597]

There's a really good video on that exact subject on endura's website with Simon Smart and Graeme Obree 😉👊

[@jonnythelegs2597]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXuceWN_g79lldU

[@krishnansrinivasan830]

Very Informative :) Thanks for making Wind Tunnel Stuff more accessible to a commoner 🙏🕊

[@gcn]

No worries! We love bringing this sort of high end tech to you all! What else would you like Ollie to test? 👀

[@krishnansrinivasan830]

@@gcn I know It's difficult for me to afford this bike.But I would love to see Ollie test a Trek Madone 2023 for it's new Kamm tail in the frame.🙏🕊

[@fabianbv82]

How can we find the Canyon CFR TT to buy? I do not see it in Canyon website 😔

[@wsbygt]

Great job, very interesting and in lightning, thank you!

[@gcn]

If you fancy learning a little more about the lotus, we did a great GCN+ doc all about this historic bike! 👉 gcn.eu/7u6

[@manitoublack]

Would be great to see the Lotus Track Bike vs the GT Project 96 Track bike.

[@SBoots29]

Very interesting results. I love this type of information however my want of a new bike goes beyond my budget. Oh maybe one day. Keep up the good work. Cheers

[@gcn]

Hahaha we feel you on that one! What would you go for if budget wasn't an issue? 👀

[@SBoots29]

@@gcn The Canyon Speedmax but it must be red in colour like my Look 695SR

[@Stu_2112]

Loving the Crystal Maze reference 😁

[@eberger02]

I think Ollie clearly watched the Crystal Maze and has always wanted to say “start the fans please”. Should have shaved his head and done an impression of Richard O’Brian though. I would have. And now he’s just admitted to loving saying that. We of a similar age know why Ollie. And we agree, but what effect would a frilly shirt have on aerodynamics… 2nd edit: was that a Richard O’Brian impression? Come for the bikes. Stay for Ollie’s Film and TV References.

[@petewillmot]

Oooh this was really interesting! I’d love to see how Ganna’s 3D printed bike would compare then to the three you presented here! Top work Dr. Oliver!

[@roblillicrap9014]

Love the tech approach that Ollie brings.to these. Keep up the good work GCN!

[@gcn]

If you fancy more techy chat head over to GCN Tech 👉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5PTmaOfdr1khNk

[@GCNuser123]

thanks mate

[@aaronhernandez1982]

Quality content - like it! 🥳

[@dariohug6669]

I love those windtunnel videos! :D

[@gcn]

We love an opportunity to get nerdy! Did you catch Ollie's Tech video on the Lotus? 👉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5PTmaOfdr1khNk

[@brucewayne964]

Very interesting, please go further with this👍👍👍.

[@gcn]

Which bike would you like to see us test next?

[@mechanicfreak1925]

Epic video guys

[@gcn]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! 🙌

[@OliverLeung]

4:32 The stem (LOOK Ergostem) on the Lotus could be adjusted quickly and easily, which could have improved the fit (and thus lower the drag). @gcn Was that a consideration or was the traditional fit the intent?

[@vyas555]

They are sponsored by Orbea, they won't make the Lotus better. :(

[@davehause8571]

How "much more" rolling resistance to tubulars have over tubeless? 5 watts? Is that considered "much more"?

[@nightsfalling]

I have a question, I saw the bike wheels move but Ollie said the tire resistance was not measured. What is the surface where the tires rest or touch? Are they any rollers? I could not see them.

[@Elias-iq2sc]

Would love a comparison to the Ventum One, which is kinda like a modern version of the lotus 110

[@soumafan]

Even with a dead-on headwind, I have to wonder if the random fluctuations in airflow between bike and surroundings (road, hedges, camera bike, whatever) would reduce that 26w difference between the Canyon and Lotus. And if you put the rider in a more "modern" aero position on the Lotus, would there be much difference at all?

[@mauromariani6859]

I love Lotus😍😍😍

[@davidduplessis4308]

Just shows a bike ahead of its time. Compared to the competition those days.

[@georgeisenbarg8302]

seriously ollie, how much weight gain due to the hair products you are using? maybe you could mold that mop on your head into an aero mips hairdo...?

[@2karvaly]

Well, that "not much" 41.6 watts are enough power to an average commuter😁😁

[@n22pdf]

Great vid.. used to love the crystal maze 😂 start the fans please.. classic.. 😅 very interesting guys love the Lotus 🤩👍❤️‍🔥🏅🚴

[@somersetshep2701]

Comparison with Obree's old reliable would be good as well.

[@daviddjerassi]

Fantastic thanks Ollie and GCN ..Turn on the fans please 😆yes sir.

[@SimoneChiaretta]

I wonder what happens if you put the modern tech and position into the lotus. Or Boardman on a speed max.

[@lfoster7601]

Be nice to see the Lotus with modern bars / stem / position on, And even if it is slower, I;d still prefer it.

[@gcn]

It's not all about speed! Looks make up for watts! 🙌

[@lfoster7601]

@@gcn but it would also look nicer..

[@sophiescyclingandwalkingch4294]

None wavers. Today these were present in the area south of Kendal.

[@DavidMartin-tk4fs]

I would make myself fit the Lotus, pain is just weakness leaving the body! I would deffo have do something about those brake callipers though, they are are what age the bike the most.

[@lukewalker1051]

Pain has a cost in performance over time in terms of physical fatigue

[@DavidMartin-tk4fs]

@@lukewalker1051 this seems to be serious answer! I was just joking - honest. To be fair I would put up with a bit discomfort and loss of speed to ride that thing.

[@the318pop]

​@@DavidMartin-tk4fs if you owned it you wouldn't need to. That ergostem and an Allen key could replicate the Canyon fit in the space of a few minutes.

[@DavidMartin-tk4fs]

@@the318pop pah! Considering my current road bike is '92 MBK Mirage HPF which has the exact same saddle as that 110 I'm already used to making myself fit the bike. Surely that stem is a later addition though? Ugly heavy thing, surely a simple dropped stem would be better and less floppy?

[@the318pop]

@@DavidMartin-tk4fs no, that stem was used extensively by Boardman, an alternative to the fork-mounted tri bars he adopted on other bikes. Anyway, I was merely suggesting it as a way to gain parity with the Speedmax featured here. Making yourself fit a bike is just silly, particularly a tt bike, when the goal is to be as fast as possible.

[@richardcarr6493]

so if the LOTUS had the front brake hidden behind the fork along with its cables and had a modern handlebar set up it would be just as aero as the TT bike ,excellent :)

[@andrewmcalister3462]

Still hanging out for a detailed review of Ollie's new Speedmax.

[@gcn]

Once you get Ollie talking about that bike he doesn't stop! 👀

[@andrewmcalister3462]

@@gcn So, we’re talking a feature-length documentary over on GCN+ then? 😁

[@GCNuser123]

it’s in the pipeline! don’t you worry! just make sure you’re subscribed so you don’t miss it on gcn tech! 😉

[@robbchastain3036]

I think our friends in England love the Lotus bike as much as the Raleigh Chopper. 😀

[@gcn]

Now there's a vs video we need to make 😂

[@emmabird9745]

More please Ollie.

[@chrisgilligan4968]

I'm 3:30 into the video....just for the record - Ollie's position on the Orbea is illegal...his forarms were resting on the bars.

[@GCNuser123]

aerohoods isn’t illegal!

[@tomahoks]

Lotus FTW

[@andrewk7422]

The Lotus might not have fared particularly well in the wind tunnel, but Dr. Bridgewood’s hair sure did!

[@a1white]

Be interesting to know the cdA of Ollie’s hair and how it differs with wax vs traditional oils

[@andrewk7422]

Marginal gains, I’m sure!

[@basittttttttt]

Can you get hold of a 108 for testing?!? We all want to see the difference!

[@SuperPathfinder10]

I guestimate about 10-15 watts better or more depending on the set up. The wheels are not modern standard neither.

[@dmurphy1578]

New components on a lotus!!!

[@mdgpatch]

I have a 108 but of the Peugeot variety 😢

[@marcin.sobocinski]

Even Mike Burrows himself clearly stated that this version of his bike is not what he designed for Boardman and should not be compared.

[@christophermay6686]

As a 69 year old who was diagnosed with A Fib last year, I have to say I would be terrified to wear Simons socks.

[@erzhaider]

It would've been nice to have an additional road bike with clamp-on aerobars in the comparison, just to see how effective those really are. Love the content anyways, you all are great!

[@morosis82]

Their sister channel has done it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYa4k4B3h7hkrrM

[@erzhaider]

@@morosis82 thanks for telling me, wouldnt have ever seen that otherwise!

[@gcn]

Would you like to see us do more wind tunel testing? 👀

[@erzhaider]

@@gcn Of course! Having you guys get all the data we normal cyclists can't get is great!

[@lsun5960]

I like to see a test of Spinergy Rev's compared to the Lotus and some modern earowheels🤟

[@luissarmiento9479]

Great video! If you put closer the Arm Rests in the Lotus (which is possible) like with the Canyon, you would most likely have the same watts

[@gcn]

Do you think we need to play around with the bike fit a bit more? 👀

[@gregoirefourniermontgieux2033]

I found my alter ego in the tech/figures/science nerdy world, you could do 3 videos a day of those, I'd eat them all for breakfast lunch and diner.

[@bergo2519]

Am I the only one wondering how many watts Ollie's 'There's Something About Mary' hairdo would cost him? An opportunity missed.

[@GCNuser123]

we did actually test it! vid in the pipeline about shaving!

[@infovidasupps8640]

Why hands almost level? I thought angled up is almost always more aero

[@GCNuser123]

because that’s how boardman and others rode during that era 👍🏼

[@andras.89]

Are you allright there, Dr. Xavier? 01:55

[@sandwichbar8226]

😂👅

[@Erhan_H]

While at the wind tunnel, it would have been good to see how aerodynamic Ollie's hair is.

[@gcn]

Hahahaha we think we might need to send him back!

[@xtrailz]

Ollie's hairstyle looks like it was designed by an aeronautical engineer

[@petinka721]

The other old TT bikes. Ollie know that mush about aero that the aero plane industry will want him :).

[@whitehorsebricks2670]

I just want to see Ollie try and ride the Lotus with the tribars attached directly to the fork crown like Boardman. How low can you go?

[@ColonelBummleigh]

I enjoyed watching this. 4:42 The Lotus is Gucci.Iconic. Those mischievous marginal gains strike again.

[@adamcooper988]

Can you compare the Lotus to an old TT bike, which Boardman would be competing against to see how much better the design was to his opposition

[@gcn]

Great idea! Do you have a bike in mind? 👀

[@adamcooper988]

@@gcn any TT bike of that era, which we mostly round tubed or oval ish steel

[@Flakemonkey]

Finally a bike which is Gone with the wind !

[@smuttyrutty]

But how much faster would the Amazon bike be? I think it would be an interesting thing to have that bike as the baseline because lets be fair most of us will never have the top end bikes but it would be nice to know the wattage gain from an old fat bloke like me on a crud bike to a top flight bike.

[@Jasonau215]

Can you guys get a lightweight road bike and then put really low gearing (like mtb gearing) on it, and see how well it climbs hills.

[@gcn]

Sounds like a gravel bike to us? We challenged Andrew feather to a road climb that we took on with a gravel bike 👉kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYrXcpuOed6Urq8

[@notreally2406]

Captain Turdville?

[@hugobci]

Wich bike is faster? Sponsor's bike or non sponsor's bike from same year? That's the video I wanna see

[@barrytantlinger1033]

It would be nice to see what these aero marginal gains do for the average Joe out there doing 25 to 30 kph rather than 45-55kph. I don't see many people out their riding that kph. Sure, aero socks might save you 8 watts at 48kph, but how many people can hold that speed? Is an aeroroad frame worth the money for most of us?

[@gcn]

Great point! Aero frames do make a huge advantage, that's not to say they are for everyone. That is one of the great things about cycling, there are many different styles and genres- something for everyone🙌

[@alanc2039]

I’d like to see the science on how far boardman could have gone on todays machines. How far would he have gone in the hour?

[@beboo_o1125]

Spent about 500 miles on it and so far so good. kzbin.infoUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA Pros:1. Very light2. Solid quality build3. Fast delivery: It arrived 5 weeks earlier than expected.4. Easy assemblyJust a few cons but nothing major:1. Cheap tin tubes and had flat on first day... but not a big deal. I replaced the tubes.2. Seat is a bit uncomfortable but that's pretty much the same situation with most bikes.3. Seat post is a bit long/high for a smaller size 48 bike - had to saw 2 inch off to fit properly. The lowest setting is too high. The post locking system does not seem to hold well (perhaps because I saw 2 inch off).4. wheels are not tubeless compatible (from what I can tell)

[@paulberry5686]

Can we test Ollies hair in the wind tunnel??

[@GCNuser123]

there is actually a video on gcn tech with this in the pipeline!! subscribe!!!

[@paulberry5686]

@@GCNuser123 I am and I watch all the gcn/tech programs. Really enjoyed your weightloss/powerup documentary.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Not really comparing the bikes with the fits being so different. They really should have been made similar or as close as possible

[@gcn]

Except for the fact that we compared the bikes without riders on?! Seriously, talk about picky! 😂

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@Global Cycling Network that's not being picky. That's normal windtunnel protocol and you know it🤦

[@rommelreyes2209]

Where is Olie?

[@myNamezMe]

Maybe it's time UCI unbans the Lotus bike. Test with the new school position on the Lotus bike would be interesting to see.

[@tonenisranda]

so body position is everything

[@gusleygamingyt3373]

i just saw this bike on facebook being broken in Half as a meme hahahahah Cany on

[@ANONyme-xt4vb]

I do not understand the need to test the bikes at 45 and 55 km/h. Isn't CDA the only variable that should be measured and that does not vary with speed ? Is it is just because watts are easier to understand than CDA ?

[@TheJoeOption]

The equation that uses CDA is a simplification. If there is a change in the flow charactaristics going between speeds (laminar transitioning to turbulent flow, different vortex sheding etc), then the values calculated by that equation at a lower speed need to be recalculated. It's a useful equation for estimating drag in similar flow regimines. But it's modeling capabilities are limited beyond that.

[@TheJoeOption]

"The value of Cd} is not a constant but varies as a function of flow speed, flow direction, object position, object size, fluid density and fluid viscosity." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient

[@GCNuser123]

you see different cda at different velocities. the fastest bike at 50kph isn’t always as good at 40kph

[@grzegorzkrawczyk7310]

Eurobike vs Lotus 💪💪💪💪💪💪💪

[@PoulHansenDK]

Lets see it in table form please

[@nicofourie6284]

Volume of Ollie's hair increases with his training volume

[@vasipro]

Everything these days is made in China, with no soul. I've seen recently old bikes that are pure masterpieces. You can feel the quality. Mechanical poetry. ❤

[@bobwilliamson5574]

I think Ollie sounds like Jeremy Clarkson.

[@lukewalker1051]

As to which bikes to take to the wind tunnel next.... First my personal view. Great video, but for most of us, the TT comparison is little more than a pedantic exercise. Interesting watt contrast but not particularly relevant to most of your viewers. How about? A wind tunnel comparison exploding the myth that aero bikes are appreciably more slippery than non aero road bikes? Test say a Specialized Atheos against a Tarmac SL7...or equivalent...say a Giant TCR with more conventional shaped tubes against a new Trek Madone or the Orbea you tested in this video? To sweeten the comparison, test with both deeper section carbon wheels and shallow box section wheels on both bikes. David Arthur has done this if you want to review his channel result and he learned there is virtually nothing in the aero frame myth in the wind tunnel at 40kmh over a more convention tube shaped bike with rider in the same position with same wheels at speeds where good amateurs ride. As a fellow scientist, I find your videos interesting Ollie and thanks for the great content. Cheers from America. PS. a last unrelated sidebar, when I look at that Lotus without a down tube, I can't help but think how noodly that thing must be to ride and how little torsional resistance that bike must have at higher watt expenditure by a strong TT rider. Based upon the shape of frame from a section modulus and moment of inertia standpoint, I believe physically impossible to make this frame as efficient for translating rider watts to road speed. Aero ain't the whole equation but yes, perhaps most of it on equivalent wheels and tires and why wind tunnel testing is important but not the whole equation.

[@davidf2281]

So my bike is fastest when I'm not on it. This is excellent news! I can let it out and stay on the sofa.

[@gcn]

😂

[@binbob9]

Ideally, you would optimise the position on each bike to a local minimum drag then compare their absolute obtainable performance as the flow structures on each bike could maybe prefer different positions.

[@GravelRacer1]

Wish bike companies stopped giving a crap about the UCI and produce more cool looking bikes without being trapped inside a design box.

[@Alan_Hans__]

Paywall to see the brilliance of Mike Burrows (RIP). 😭

[@troycollett8540]

Doesn’t cost much to join GCN +

[@JonCannings]

Well worth it

[@troycollett8540]

@@JonCannings agreed.I have been on it since the start and there’s so much content

[@Alan_Hans__]

@@JonCannings . Conflict of interest? Good content but there's plenty of good content that can be had if you pay for it.

[@JonCannings]

@@Alan_Hans__ what is a conflict of interest?