Bannerlord 1.2 Workshops Are A Mess. Here's Why (Critical Drinker Inspired) Flesson19

[@Flesson19]

This video is NOT meant to be a bash at Taleworld or Bannerlord. I wanted to point out all the issues, what you can do, and what TW could do to fix. It's serious but I wanted to inject some humor, kind of like the Critical Drinker would. So please while it may be harsh, I also give praise. I wanted to give both sides and not just positive or negative.

[@Kaador]

Hidiho You can write them personally with a point on your content in hand, maybe, they will read this. I writed them a few times and they are always open to hear suggestions. But to mention: Their calender may be full. But they will answer.

[@Flesson19]

@@Kaador they used to answer me all the time. It's been months and not 1 response to any of my questions

[@ztoa2495]

I deleted this game from my ps4 some months ago, and I probably never come back, (after all my unfinished campaigns with the old patches Im done, this game will be BETA forever, unfinished game in many aspects, forever uncomplete) but Im still subscribed to you because you are a great content creator, and thanks to your vids and guides, my time and experience on this game was better and good. Because the only GOOD thing Taleswords have in this right moment, is to have Great Content Creators like you and Strat.... Without you both, this game will be forgotten. Great vid like always, Flesson👍

[@Flesson19]

Thank you so much. Sad you can't mod, that would help tons

[@joshuamcdowell1460]

It literally feels like owning anything in the game is exclusively a liability. I'm just trying to be a simple warlord vassal but now I can't afford to outfit myself or my party because instead of generating wealth, all fiefs do is make you lose 70k+ a day.

[@Flesson19]

for me, very little garrison and high roguery and I can make a ton. That is how I get gear and make a lot of money

[@mattiOTX]

I would say my issue is for wanting to play a trader and workshop owner the mechanics of supply and demand are actually pretty cool. It's when you only want the workshops as a way to fund your warring it gets a bit lackluster on production.

[@Flesson19]

yeah for traders, it is awesome. But for anyone else it sucks

[@krombopulosmicheal2436]

Thank you I felt like I was going insane. I stopped played the game due to that. I dont want to micro manage a workshop while fighting in this game. Also I dont like the fact I have to buy my own output product in order for it to work that makes no sense to me. How the hell is there so much output that items are so cheap they are not profitable yet the villages are getting raided!? Who the fuck is delivering the goods the villigers corpse! Wouldnt it make sense that product gets more expensive that way. Workshops make no sense. I hate caravans cause my funds can disappear within a blink of an eye if just one gets raided. workshops were to be the simple and passive way to get income, no one asked for them to make workshops and trading more complex and nonsensical. I have had to watch tons of videos cause im lost on what new ways they now work. I feels just like you said like I have to take a college class just too find out how one mechanic works in this game.

[@Flesson19]

Exactly what I have heard. The old system and the one in Warband was so much better.

[@Michael-fw9xb]

I don't even do workshops for profit anymore, I just make a lot of smithies and wood workshops hoping that they will produce good weapons and armor.

[@Book_Cloak]

I have only been playing bannerlord for about 2 weeks. Something that I think would really help the shops part of this game would be designating what your own Caravans buy and sell. You can make it so that they look for specific goods and you can choose say three to five different ones to buy low and sell High, or just give them the command to go around and buy up as low-priced object the lowest in the town and just tell her the highest price possible. But it feels to me that giving your Caravans you order to sell your products would be a really easy way to solve this problem

[@Flesson19]

that is something people have talked about, also destination to go to but I think that is too much for TW to handle.

[@RubberToeYT]

I totally agree and especially with all the other imbalances it’s a big shame for a game that is so good otherwise and has so much potential

[@Flesson19]

right the potential to be one of the best, if just someone would take the time to polish it off

[@guldukat1354]

i played a long campaign on 1.2, what i figured out is that buying a shop in a town witch is common to get raided i no no, khuzait towns are a no no since to much bandits and low caravan numbers even thou they might have high prosperity, so only good options are a couple of aserai towns and if you can flip some shops to corner a particular market in vlandia, sad part is with all this micro you need you don't get any passive trade xp

[@Flesson19]

exactly what I was saying, not more set and forget. You need to be a detective to pick a shop.

[@johnzamperini4366]

Good mix of criticism and humor. Job well done. Very informative

[@Flesson19]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@dandivarkathar6582]

Ah a fellow critical drinker enjoyer. Cheers.

[@joshuamcdowell1460]

Yeah. Played this game like a year ago. Felt like I had it down. Came back this year and was doing fine until I started winning fiefs. Now I'm 70k in debt and can't get any of my workshops to produce anything. Ever. Production can only ever be halted.

[@Flesson19]

This will help ya pick a shop for 1.2 or later. If playing an earlier one my #1 viewed video will help I bet your losing money because you stack big garrisons. I live on militia, they eat nothing and you dont pay them, they cant be starved out.

[@joshuamcdowell1460]

@@Flesson19 I basically leave the garrisons to their own devices. Because I thought if I underpaid them I'd lose even more loyalty and prosperuty due to low security.

[@Flesson19]

@@joshuamcdowell1460 security doesnt effect it a lot. you dont lose much loyalty with low garrison. And in a kingdom there are policies to help with both loyalty and security. In my own kingdom with policies I sit around 40 security and 80-90 loyalty with 100 or less in the garrison

[@joshuamcdowell1460]

@@Flesson19 interesting. Thank you.

[@Flesson19]

@@joshuamcdowell1460 thank you for the support

[@flimreyals9674]

modders once again we are counting on you

[@ziunerbl]

Small garrison in villages too maybe max 50 troops or patrolling system to village not burn every 5 seconds and take 4 days to " heal "

[@Flesson19]

yeah that is why I spend so much time working relation to try and stop raiderlord

[@partgamer182]

@@Flesson19give class another party slot with a size limit that cant join armes so it goes around and patrols

[@Flesson19]

@@partgamer182 it's what I loved about warband only the Marshall could make 1 army so many of the lords just guarded their holdings

[@Michael-fw9xb]

The raids are why I always choose the perks that make it impossible for NPC to escape from being prisoner in my party and just take whole kingdoms hostage.

[@ssShockRyder]

it's needed a patrol system since day one and many mods do it just fine so it's odd that it's not in main game

[@MetalthinkerYT]

We are negatively paid beta testers.

[@macdixon3r]

It’s fairly obvious the devs don’t play their own game. When you are 20 years into the game nobody has time or patience to micromanage unprofitable workshops while your kingdom is getting sieged all over like it’s possible to make moves strategically. There’s never a win win situation in this game when it comes to moving forward simply because of terrible game building. I also wanted to say I love your videos man, keep up the good work!

[@MalikethMage]

To me a potential solution is already in game, your caravans. I would like to be able to give them a set if priorities, ie pick up and supply my shops bro! Would also be handy to tell them, avoid this lot if you know you faction goes to war with them every 2 sec. Lost quite a few as Vlandia where they're parked right in the middle of Battanian space and 'Declare war it is'

[@OnlyTrueProletariat]

lol do i just do caravans now?

[@Flesson19]

that's what I recommend, unless you find the perfect one, need beer or are willing to micro manage constantly

[@DeaderNephalim]

I have been watching your vids for awhile and wanted to say I love your content. This vid needed to be made!

[@Flesson19]

thank you for the support

[@tdotfun]

Interesting take, but would have like more info on what your exact experience was like. My first playthrough of 1.2 and experience is: 6 shops= 4 wine, 2 silver. As usual, the beginning the profits suck/economy is growing. Mid game, economy is up and my profits are up; wine in Sanala has stalled because there are no goods, switched to warehouse - all is good - but had to go buy grapes and restock the warehouse, but also switched back not using warehouse. Wine was better profit then silver. Mid-late game, economy is at its peak and my profits for 6 shops is ~10000 per day. Sanala wine stalled again, switch to warehouse and profits returned. The change I would like to see is the warehouse button, make it so that if there is no stock in town, then use warehouse. (edit: i.e. make the warehouse an emergency stock for your shops, so the shop only uses the warehouse when there is no stock). I'd rather check my warehouse stock every couple of years, instead of checking every "month" if my shop has stalled. Edit: I do not use the settings (store 25, 50, etc.). Edit2: I want to my shops to overproduce in early to mid game. You want to lower the overall price of the good so other shops close/stall and get removed. If you keep produce low, you will see more of those shops appear in different towns and you will never get good profits down the road.

[@Flesson19]

Yeah that is typical, early game when needed they are trash. As the economy stabilizes and inflation kicks in you will make decent or good money on most

[@Ruffster]

Supply and demand is what drive the world. If you look at the consumption of a town. If it consume 3 units of beer a day, and your workshop produce 10 (or whatever the number is). Then the surplus need to be picked up by traders and what not unless it start pile up on the market (or in your storage). If you tell your workshop to store 50%, 25% or the amount you desire it will limit what get put on market and help keep prices up. But if you have 20 other breweries in the world to compete with there is only so much traders can move around of the overflow too. For consumption to go up, prosperity need to increase. Some trade goods doesn't have no real consumption drive other than increased prosperity afaik, Such as jewelery, velvet (luxury items). Some workshops like blacksmiths and woodshops have so little demand when you look at consumption. Like 1 ranged weapon a day... I doubt that is one noble bow sold a day... Imho its fine to tie the consumption to prosperity, they just need to tweak the numbers of demand somewhat.

[@Flesson19]

right getting that balance is the issue they have to spend time figuring out that I think is not a priority for them

[@Alex-qf9js]

Poor implementation!?!!? From Talewolds? I'm shocked.

[@Flesson19]

They just need more butter 🧈

[@krzysztofkalinowski2998]

So basically only smithy will run non stop if has iron? Because prices for weapons should not change?

[@Flesson19]

There are other factors in town. Smithy and wood shops operate differently and have been really bad. Once in awhile you can get a good one but only if high prosperity and good source of iron or they are bad

[@PedromJaf]

But they allow us to manage the production output(storing)?

[@Flesson19]

right but once again it requires micro managing, things some players don't want to do. I think that should allow really good profits, but it feels almost mandatory to make any kind of decent money

[@SlipperyTitan]

You can manage the warehouse from anywhere on the Map... Before you had to be in-town. Complaining about micromanagement, but got a massive upgrade; wild

[@chrisvd2104]

Great video man! I don’t understand that people take this the wrong way. You just say as it is. I hope it will change before im old😅, the game I’m meaning

[@Flesson19]

Ty, that was exactly what I wanted to achieve

[@vonblunder]

When I do a new run I Keep wondering why the game keeps tying an arm behind my back

[@Flesson19]

the million dollar question

[@dilsoncamacho4100]

I agree with you, but I'm on the new werehouse mechanic side of things. I can have a city that is a super producer of x product and I just go there and fill my pockets with it and go around selling it. Like, velvet takes 0.9 raw silk to produce 1.8 velvet, that's about 108.1 denars (with labor cost) to produce 380 denars worth of velvet (at 200 denars each) for manual sale... Is it a crap ton of work? yeah. But it's some garanteed profit and I can corner the market if I reaaaally want to spend time on it too. And it levels trade.

[@Flesson19]

Exactly you can make a ton but it's micro management is the only downside

[@gregsurles4199]

Lol I love how genuinely pissed he is!

[@Knighted357]

I find the passive income is mostly not going to be good but you can fill your warehouse full of product to trade manually. I see this as an attempt at giving us something to do in peacetime. But more trading isn’t going to be fun as we do that early in game and to break away from that mid game is a blessing.

[@getsomeboy321]

Peace time in bannerlord?

[@Michael-fw9xb]

I have a playthrough that is 10 years into the game, where my faction controls half of them map. The longest peacetime I had since I joined a faction was a week... Peacetime doesn't exist in bannerlord.

[@getsomeboy321]

@Michael-fw9xb unless you have diplomacy mod. You can set non-aggression pacts. I do 100 days so the wars are more thought out and better quality troops Ideally

[@Michael-fw9xb]

@@getsomeboy321 it's a most vanilla playthrough with only some small QoL mods, so I don't have diplomacy, definitely will have it for my next playthrough since it was way more fun playing with it the last time.

[@Knighted357]

@@getsomeboy321 yeah I waiting for modes to catch to patch. Peacetimes good but needs more to do.

[@wqrpedu8117]

Hi Flesson. I completely agree, and to an extent, bannerlord not showing you how the game mechanics work all the time is kinda nice. Just not to this degree! It’s so complicated now, and I feel like without videos like yours people would be f%ked! I just don’t understand why they felt the need to make the game harder. I’m very new to the community, but why did Taleworld feel these changes were necessary? I just don’t get it. Anyways, great video!

[@Flesson19]

right, some I do not understand and need someone to look at the code. But some of these changes are just head scratchers.....why is this needed?

[@mattiOTX]

They need to adjust the CPU caravans to be more responsive to world adjustment for war. I think they need from bannerkings the ability to have more clans rising up to increase the amount of people creating caravans to support that though.

[@Flesson19]

I wish I had the answers but I feel it's more than a 1 step process sadly

[@mattiOTX]

@@Flesson19 for sure, one thing I've found that does help is when you establish a workshop to set a caravan up in the same city or 2, I found before it helped keep the income up more often. One of my big issues is beer. Beer quite often makes no money even though weak beer was used not only for calories but was safer to drink than water in cities historically. I think taleworlds needs to figure out how to actually up the consumption of locals on that specific product. Not like we need the old beer shops back but they should be turning a profit even with low margins by the start of year 2.

[@Flesson19]

@@mattiOTX I should do a bit more testing to check profits if u got caravans starting there

[@idontknowwhathandleis]

Hey man huge fan here I wanted to ask if you could do a tutorial on how to become the ruler of an existing faction

[@Flesson19]

When a leader dies 3 new people go up for the vote. Based on clan tier, clan strength and relations with other vassals. Without knowing each part of the code, focus on those

[@vl4d293]

so true, I really enjoyed the new mechanic being able to supply the workshop as well as sell the product yourself. However, it is unplayable that way because at some point with your independent trading workshop loses all the capital or even worse, it goes idle because of low prices even though it doesnt have to sell anything to the city and I have made to store all the product in the workshop and not sell it ! Just remove the workshop going idle part completely and let me fund the capita as you can do with fiefs AND THATS IT !

[@Flesson19]

yeah they are trash, for me I use them for renown gain or beer for my party

[@salmonshot3567]

Before, my wool workshops were making damn good dough in Khuzait territory, but now with 1.2 all 3 shops were making 0 profit. I bought a random linen workshop and it’s making 500 denars on its own no problem. I just don’t understand!

[@Flesson19]

and for someone doing shops since 1.5.4 I dont even understand anymore.

[@salmonshot3567]

@@Flesson19 And if you don't know brother...we are screwed lol

[@MarksmanGamingPk90]

I noticed they remove lvl 1 from the shop which i was hoping they were going to add something like increase lvl of the shop which may increase income and i hope they give us more control over shop input/output so we could decide whether we want to sell input to carvan or not and when and at which rate we want to sell output, overall i like new system and hope things will get fixed in future

[@Flesson19]

One dev said they hope not to add levels and that I have tested it with a mod. adding levels makes it even worse. Right now the problem is too much output. If you add levels that add increased output it will make the problem worse

[@Michael-fw9xb]

​@@Flesson19 Levels could be good for the workshops that produce weapons and armor, upgrading them to the max level could make them produce only the best late game stuff, since getting the best armor is a pain.

[@hero_on_youtube]

I'm not having issues with workshops in 1.2.1, maybe I got lucky.

[@gregorysilas6329]

You make a very good point. I completely stay away from workshops. Caravans at least make sense for me. Workshops are huge financial investments that I get minimal return from.

[@KGB1697]

I’ve got a ticket to the moon I wanna sell ya 😂😂

[@SolFireYT]

Im still wondering why they are so expensive… it’s a singleplayer campaign making the shops more to purchase helps literally no one.

[@Flesson19]

I have been asking for 5 months and no answer

[@Platerade]

Yeah workshops are just too pricey for what you get, and the thing that kinda frustrates me is how the AI seems to basically ignore the economy. Sure, make it tougher for me to maintain wages and my fiefs but I swear to god I cannot figure out how some factions can constantly field 3000-man armies over multiple campaigns... At least with the new patch, they all face extinction sooner.

[@Flesson19]

yeah since it feels like with 200-300 garrisons we lose money but they seem to have money printed for them all the time

[@Groffili]

The necessity of micromanagement is the real problem here, and how to balance the whole system. I wouldn't mind a complicated economical workshop model, where I have to tweak and twist it to get the maximum output. That could be a further interesting part of a game which I would love to be more of a "world simulator" than a "nice looking combat and battle simulator with some unimportant background". But there has to be the option to... well... option _out_ of it. As well as the possibility to make it worthwhile. So, IF I want to play the workshop game... it has to be a viable alternative to other means of making money, or it's just not worth the investment, both in playtime as well as in-game resources. And IF I want workshops just as a side activity to bring me some additional coins... it needs a method to automate it in a way that doesn't result in constant breakdowns. Something less profitable that running it myself, but still something that is valid and useful on its own. As I see it, the game already has a lot of "nice stuff" that just isn't worthwhile doing. Adding workshops to this list is just another step in the wrong direction.

[@Flesson19]

exactly what I was trying to convey

[@TrMortis]

But still you didnt inform which workshop to start in early game ı tried olive press in jaculan pottery in pen cannoc velvet weawer in myzea beacuse you can sell outputs nearly cities good price If you are a beginner like me check bound villages buy outputs. Managing necessary to good profits with 3 workshops over 1k profit in early game

[@Flesson19]

the problem is early game, before about day 160, the economy still hasn't stabilized making it super hard to predict what will make profit. I explain a bit of it in my 100k view video how to pick the perfect workshop

[@TrMortis]

Your 300 trade video is very informative for me ı just strated with 1.20patch there is too many misinformative info on internet @@Flesson19

[@TheGuy-de3in]

Yea stopped using workshops annoying now

[@shipwrecker37]

Am I missing something here? I have 6 workshops all making 200-500 gold a day, and they each are storing 25% of the output so I can visit them to get a ton of extra product to sell. It's an insanely good source of revenue for my oversized military.

[@Flesson19]

is it later in the game, as inflation hits, you can a lot more. but remember, it costs 30k-40k to buy one. at 200 a day it will take 2 years in game or longer just to get your money back.

[@shipwrecker37]

@@Flesson19 True!

[@Flesson19]

@@shipwrecker37 There is alot more but don't want to flood you with info. Also are you on 1.2.11? I haven't tested that branch yet

[@Grombrindal]

I'm playing whatever version I downloaded bro It's not this one

[@Flesson19]

if your on console then most likely 1.1.6

[@irExron]

I both love the new economy, and kinda hate it... I love that it is complicated, but i feel like unless you get the perfect workshop, it's pretty useless...

[@Flesson19]

Exactly what I tried to say. Good concept, terrible execution

[@notirishrider7953]

I think they should just make workshops more simple without all this complex maths. just set a random amount of money you can get from them. For example 500-1000. Then you can get negative or positive effects for example a caravan visiting a town can give you 5% more income. A party of villagers visiting can give you 5% + The faction that owns the town is at war give it a -25% to +25% for example beer could go up in value as well as tools and weapons can go up in value rest can go down. I used to love workshops they used to be my main income source till late game. But when I realised how much money you can make by sending all your companions to trade with caravans I basically stopped using them unless I own that town. Not to mention that Caravans rarely get attacked at the start of the game.

[@isnardcampanati3552]

the moment the game gets stabilized, mods will fix that. bannerlord is bound to become some rimworld like ou fo4 with mods, that beeing said. Workshops seems to be traders playthrough preference, to do the micromanaging. Some stuff could the added in the trading tree to make them more interesting in this way.

[@Michael-fw9xb]

They will, but they shouldn't have to. It's TWs job to mage a good, stable base game and the modders should me spending time adding new fun stuff, not having to waste time to fix the game first.

[@konstantinpobedonotsev5589]

Love this channel, but he needs a better mic. Think it would help his channel grow a great deal.

[@Flesson19]

I have a nice blue yeti, I m working on the reaper plug ins. However I do have speech issues with my voice for medical reasons

[@konstantinpobedonotsev5589]

@@Flesson19 ah, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize. My apologies.

[@Flesson19]

@@konstantinpobedonotsev5589 np, I try not to talk about it as i hate anyone to feel sorry for me so I keep it quiet

[@konstantinpobedonotsev5589]

@@Flesson19 I have a son with Down Syndrome and he’s a bit the same. He doesn’t understand why anyone would make a big deal out of it!

[@Flesson19]

@@konstantinpobedonotsev5589 Im just self conscious about it. Nut recently in the past couple years people have exploited their disabilities for money and I never want that to come up

[@oguztribesmen294]

im not even using the Shops

[@Flesson19]

I don't either

[@tuetensuppe6399]

so tl;dr workshops are for dedicated trader runs. im ok with that. luckily the game offers enough ways to get money, i will do what i did the last couple patches anyway and ignore workshops entirely. thanks for the video

[@Flesson19]

exactly, I for the most part have ignored them for months now, just now worth it

[@2naPhish]

I can only think that TW is trying to make this a playthrough skill where as a player can successfully play as a workshop tycoon but man........

[@Dave-wv3yj]

Bleek

[@almascollections9531]

Can you do a video for console

[@Flesson19]

Are you talking about how to pick a workshop?

[@Triumph633]

How weird am I to just have started another Bannerlord campaign on patch 1.71? I have an old installation with all my favourite mods and so far I simply was to lazy to update the game and all the mods again (if I can even do that) and I dont see why even, what feature have they added since then that is actually worth the struggle? I dont care about any roguery stuff and 1.7 already has the captain system. From what I read its just more crashes and pointless features (while I am on 1.71 with 20 mods and 0 crashes). Like even the "improved loot" is pretty pointless when most base armor in 1.7 are better and/or you are using modded armor anyway (of which all are better). I really dont see what Taleworlds has done since 1.7 to actually improve the game and I cannot even imagine to play the game without mods. Bannerlord would be dead without them.

[@Flesson19]

just wait till you ever update to 1.8 The economy changes are shocking and tough to learn

[@isaaccoke9899]

Your very right ive not uesd them much at all wish they were better and u could save like 5 or 6 k on wages lol

[@Flesson19]

merc time, 5k-10k a day

[@DPhoenixMMA]

The problem is that the produce doesn't give you trade points, silversmith is very profitable but as you said there is too much micromanagement.

[@Flesson19]

yeah I get micro management and am for it, but that shouldn't be the driving factor to making profit, but making better profit should be its mind set

[@MrSoloDolo20100]

All you need to know about workshops is to not ever buy them. I watched some video on the best ones, and a silversmith in Ortysia was supposedly the best workshop you can buy. Cost over 20k and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it make over 100 denars.

[@Flesson19]

RIP workshops

[@SlipperyTitan]

The economy in every game is different. With workshop changes you can micro manage from anywhere. I get it, most people can't figure out their administrative tasks, but dont water down things because you dont understand how an actual in-depth economy works. Your closing statements definitely killed the idea that you did this for any other reason than to bash Tale Worlds.

[@Flesson19]

I can see you missed the whole point, so I will address it during my next stream

[@OneEyedOneHornedGian]

I find the economy of the game backwards. Prosperous cities should have an abundance of the goods they produce for cheap. That abundance should provide them the gold to attract the goods from other towns. But this game makes it so that wealthy towns and villages sell their goods for way more so that they can't export them easily. This doesn't make any sense from an economic perspective...

[@christopherwilson-sz6hm]

Wait wait wait... They did full release already? This game is nowhere near being complete tf is wrong with them

[@Flesson19]

I felt it needed 6-12 months more of early access........overruled

[@christopherwilson-sz6hm]

@@Flesson19 it's really a shame. Waited like 11 years for this game to be released, literally had brothers die waiting for this 🤦‍♂️ hope they figure it out.

[@Horkruxx]

Taleworld is sadly just not good enough to do it right. Workshops and smithing were messed up for years. It should not be possible to pick the perfect workshop, it should be skill to know and understand things, perks and put work in it to get money. Or super simple, just build for 10000 and get 100 a day, so after 100 profit. snowballs incoming. Smithing could be cool, is garbage

[@HypnoticChronic1]

Well TW is a Turkish company and if you've looked at the Lira these days, then its little wonder how TW can't seem to figure out a working economy. Jokes aside tho I mean if TW and by extension yourself Flesson wants to use a simple economy as a model, then they or yourself need not look any further than the Port Royale series, that has a simple one that works with very little input from the player. Personally one thing I would add to as well instead of the trade rumor bs we currently got, you can have little economic icons over the town on the world map showing say 2 things they produce in abundance and 2 things they are in desperate need of, this will at least give the player a idea of items they need to source elsewhere to make some profit and if the player has extra other items the town is in need of once they arrive they can sell those off as well, but at least the icons will give the player a starting point while likewise not wasting as much time going from town to town just to figure out what is needed, which is something Port Royale does to great effect. Likewise something else that could be done is the establishment of player made trade routes for caravans again something Port Royale does to great effect, as it allows you to allocate the task of trade and or supply of workshops to npc's which takes the workload off the player, you can even set a option to avoid hostile towns which will also benefit the caravan mechanic by avoid areas where they have a higher chance of getting attacked. I'd likewise break off the warehouse implement from being tied directly to the workshop and make it a separate purchasable building in the town strictly for commodities, that workshops can pull from if the town market runs dry on whatever input is needed for the output, basically a rainy day fund if you will I think that would afford us as players less micromanaging overall.

[@Flesson19]

Agree with the trade routes, something I've asked about a lot.. I'm all for a good dynamic, complex system if implemented right. Constant micro managing is not fun accept for traders

[@HypnoticChronic1]

@@Flesson19 True but I think adding layers of complexity to systems for a game not specifically geared towards that specific game play style could often do more harm than good. I find simple is better when you have a multifaceted game play style game, so one style doesn't conflict and or utterly choke out the mechanics of the other something which I find Bannerlord currently suffers from, which makes the game feel like a jumbled mess of poorly implemented ideas in the end. Hence my example of Port Royale and while the economic system is simple its likewise easy enough for the player to comprehend after about a hour, while also being enjoyable enough to not be boring and the player doesn't need spreadsheet to either keep track of it or full understand its mechanics, plus the way its laid out is very similar to what Bannerlord already has in place and would require very few tweaks to get it working in it. Also just for the record I'm one of those people who enjoys trading a lot (I just enjoy making money via commerce be it real or fictitious) however, I absolutely despise micromanaging and I highly doubt many people do enjoy that kind of obsessive tedium except for maybe people with extreme OCD. That said if you have the time I would suggest giving the Port Royale economic system a glace if you are unfamiliar with it, there are quite a few videos covering it and it may afford you a better visual representation and understanding of where I'm coming from, than what I am able to convey about it by words alone.

[@ztoa2495]

Port Royal 4 is a fkng boring nightmare dude. The only thing the player does is to buy little fast ships and put them in a trade route in a circle over the map. That is it. That is all. The time pass, days, months and you dont have to do anything. Boring😢 and not the brst example for echonomy systems in games...

[@HypnoticChronic1]

@@ztoa2495 That is kinda the point I was trying to make here "the establishment of player made trade routes for caravans again something Port Royale does to great effect, as it allows you to allocate the task of trade and or supply of workshops to npc's which takes the workload off the player" and its simple economic model where the player *doesn't have to do anything* which would fit good in Bannerlord as there are other things the player has to worry about in that game, you don't want to add a overtly complex menu flipper system in a game that already has quite a fair bit of that, hence a simple system is better. Also for the record you do realize that there is naval combat be it with pirates or nations, town construction/management, town conquest and mini missions you can do in Port Royale right? Or did you just not bother to get that far? So this statement of yours here "The only thing the player does is to buy little fast ships and put them in a trade route in a circle over the map. That is it. That is all." is erroneous at best or misleading at worst. Plus technically speaking a player never has to "do" anything in any game ever, its up to the player what they choose to do and or what it required to accomplish in order for the player to progress.

[@ztoa2495]

@@HypnoticChronic1 I am very sorry if I touched your feelings about that game, man I understand you like it because the game has many other elements that made me buy it last year, like town construction, yes, but in my case after almost 30 years playing Sid Meiers games Civs and Colonization games, I have to say in Port Royal those elements are poor. You can even play it without care about it. Its so easy that game, that becomes boring for the most of us. Im agree with you PR4 has very easy system for the echonomy where the player dont have to use the brain, but there is always a curve between difficulty and fun/enjoy in games. You can imagine a X axis and a Y axis where you put values to difficulty and fun respectly. Super easy is boring and super hard is out of the curve, resulting boring at the end. The key is in the middle, the center. Sorry if my english is basic and Im very direct, english is not my tonge and try to explain my point of view what happens not only in PR4 or Bannerlord, it happens on many games. Peace bro🙏

[@pizzaman6784]

Bannerlord sucks a little too hard, for the amount of time they have spent working on it.

[@Flesson19]

Yeah a bit bland and outdated graphics