Bard Class Changes in D&D 2024

[@Draeckon]

"Take one level of Fighter." Colby's ears are burning. lol

[@moriyasanae8130]

😂why your text has sound of colby crying

[@onichupacabra]

Paladin gives healing to get people up, helps with spell progression, gives armor and weapons etc. is my go to caster dip for now!

[@moriyasanae8130]

@@onichupacabra best is, lv1 pala count as lv1 spellcaster, mean 1 dip is ok

[@dragoninthewest1]

I would do two levels get access to action surge. Cast a leveled spell, action surge, multi attack,

[@moriyasanae8130]

@@dragoninthewest1 if i am one of the cantrip multiattacker, yes i will

[@nickl.3023]

Already been building my college of Dance capoeira chicken aarakocra. Robin Hood rooster meets Blaziken meets Sanji

[@chatwithaninja]

Robin Hood and little John a walking through the forest laughing back-and-forth at what the other has to say

[@yeeterdeleter4101]

Awesome

[@caerdwyn7467]

@@chatwithaninja Oodelally oodelally, golly what a crit.

[@adarkerstormishere]

@nicki His name is Alan-a-Dale, just in case you wanted to learn more about him.

[@NSPresbyterian]

Gives another meaning to the idea of doing the Chicken Dance...

[@Not_4uoo]

When I play a Dance Bard: THAT'S My Bag of Holding! I DON'T KNOW YOU!!"

[@ryanscanlon2151]

First time I read this unread "That's my bag of holding" normally but then "I don't know you instantly swapped to Bobby hill voice lol and now the whole thing sounds like Bobby in my head lol

[@jodinsan]

I think you guys are underselling the Dance Bard a little bit. Almost all of their subclass feature they can share with a nearby dance partner, excuse me, ally... _Including Evasion._ Imagine a duo of a Dance Bard and a Battle Master Fighter (literally) waltzing around the battlefield with extra movement completely avoiding AoO and getting extra hits with a reaction. Also an AC of Dex + Cha (two stats a Bard wants as high as possible _anyway)_ with potential access to _Shield_ means your Dance Bard is going to be incredibly difficult to hit. Does it do absurd damage? Well, no probably not. But consistent damage and/or party buffs with a customizable spell toolkit on a mobile, hard to hit PC? Sounds like a blast to play.

[@tendracalrissian8820]

Multiclassing with Warlock at level five (so you get the ASI at Bard 4), you can pick up pact of the blade and improved pact of the blade, for two weapon attacks made with Charisma, and one unarmed strike (a kick would be most flavourful) with your inspiration die. This character can dump strength and intelligence, but they need a good wisdom for saves. They'd be most powerful with 20 Cha and 20 Dex, which is possible if you don't rely on feats and grab ASI's when you can. Pulling 4 levels of Sorceror would help with getting more ASI's, and if you pick Draconic soul, you also get an additional +2 AC when unarmoured. With good ranged cantrips, really good movement, good metamagic options, and good ranged and melee options, you'd be quite powerful.

[@Wintermute909]

I keep imagining that they are such good dancers that they actually require a use of inspiration to accidentally-on-purpose step on everyone's toes!

[@duskydancing6409]

My first D&D character was a Tiefling Glamour Bard/Archfey Warlock named "Grace". That campaign is still ongoing, and our DM had us rewrite our characters to the new rules and decide which version we wanted to keep. With the new rules, she's wayyyy more powerful lmao. She's got total control of the battlefield with charm, illusion, and BI, and she's hard to pin down with the Archfey Misty Step. Still fun to RP too.

[@MikeReevesMcMillan]

Dance Bard is a backdoor to a paladin/monk multiclass without having to have 13s in four different ability scores.

[@bobbobby475]

Paladin requires strength 13. Monk requires wisdom 13 And you don't wanna dump your con as a dance bards 😅

[@shinespark1007]

@@bobbobby475 I think what he's referring to is the unarmed damage bonus that Dance Bards get, which would allow a Dex-based Paladin to be able to fight without a weapon.

[@moonlight2870]

"Maybe I'll eat these words and Colby will show how broken this is-" "-he will!"

[@eddiekalista3222]

I like that they made it so hard to get non-primary caster spells without being the class them spell is made for. Means those classes are a more unique experience.

[@LouiSwagula]

Find you someone who stares into your eyes the way the Dungeon Dudes do

[@lilpixines]

💀 On one of the first videos of theirs I ever watched, someone in the comments said they made it a point to always watch whichever person *wasn't* speaking at the time, and it ruined me forever. Can never watch a dungeon dudes video without peeking over at the non-speaking person at least once or twice now.

[@ashsweet]

​@@lilpixinesI like to pretend the one not speaking is holding back tears or incredible violence

[@matthewhelmers1426]

I was thinking of Pink Floyd when you started your musical analogy! I think "one level of fighter" is going to be a cornerstone of so many builds!

[@ThatsABallerCookie]

I think you're right and it gives so much with just 1 level. Initially that's what I thought I would do on my valor bard but then I saw truestrike and some of the things I could get with magical secrets. I have to be picky since our campaign is only going to 12 and i'm not sure if the fighter level dip or the extra spells and feat are going to be better. Going to have to play around with it to see both options.

[@cristotheranger4263]

Young Justice Robin: Why isn’t anyone ever just whelmed? Monty: (about Dance Bard) I’m whelmed Robin: …

[@jaredsimpson4701]

came to the comments to find this specific reference, nice

[@phillconklin382]

He definitely got it from there. I recognized it as soon as I heard it.

[@Wintermute909]

​@@phillconklin382hmmm maybe, but it's not like that's an original joke invented by that show/character (or whatever justice Robin is). I guess i can admit it's not a super common joke, and that before reading these comments I would have assumed most people have either made that joke, or at the very least wondered if whelmed was a word. Just like why awesome is a good thing but awful is bad thing. Or why the letter 'w' is the only letter that is actually a descriptive word. (ie 'double u')

[@phillconklin382]

@@Wintermute909 that's fair. Who knows if he was using the reference.

[@dracone4370]

After all the Class change videos are done, which I suspect includes the Tier Ranking video on all of them, I think it could be interesting to see some videos speculating on what sort of changes their other subclasses that will likely be given updated printings to go along with the 2024 changes.

[@adam1third]

They mentioned that they will do one in one of their last class change videos

[@thewickedturtle7307]

One of my favorite spells to grab with MS is Steel Wind Strike.

[@shoganmajere7913]

Conjure minor Elementals *cough*

[@ThatsABallerCookie]

@@shoganmajere7913 take those two and boom. that was my plan for my valor bard.

[@shoganmajere7913]

@@ThatsABallerCookie 2nd one is scorching ray .....and 2 lvls of sorc , 1 lvl of warlock and your DM will curse you thats 3+ spell lvl > 2nd hits vs plain 5 hits 2 sorc will let you quicken scorching Ray and Warlock will let you use eldritch blast instead of one of your attacks

[@atsuskyreign7083]

Playing College of Dance in Chains of Asmodeus at lvl 15 currently. It feels very nice to give evasion to multiple party members. Steel Wind Strike and Tenser's Transformation allow for a fun gish punch build.

[@ArchAngel_M81]

One slight correction: The Glamour Bard is from Xanathar’s Guide to Everything, not Tasha’s

[@yuen4817]

I beseech my patrons to gift the warlock video next 🙌🏾

[@jorgeramirez5606]

They said they'd go in alphabetical order

[@yuen4817]

​@@jorgeramirez5606🤔 I must've missed that since they did wizard first, then cleric, and rogue before the barbarian. Thanks for letting me know. Warlock can't come soon enough 😢

[@jorgeramirez5606]

@@yuen4817 All good, they said it in the intro to one of the classes. I barely caught it myself!

[@arkyark8]

15:25 Kelly, "Spell sl#t" Monty's reaction is priceless 😂 that knowing smile 👌

[@fatewalker]

Bard is looking real good in 2024. Tha KS for the video Dungeon Dudes!!!

[@christiangex2055]

Today is a good day, cause we have a Dudes video. Thanks and good watch.

[@tinyplasticgraves]

You know, I'm a bardy fellow and the first video of yours I ever watched was your guide to bards, just to try you out and see if I liked you (I do). I feel like this video brings me full circle. Keep it up; I'm here for it!

[@paulhiggins6433]

I likw the addition of the full spell lists to choose from. I've always thought it would be thematic for bards to naturally get the Power Word spells, since Vicious Mockery is a bard staple. It just feels like natural progression to me. Going from insulting rats until they die to PWK the BBEG just feels like good ole growth. Love it.

[@LawrenceDomkowski]

How you guys are describing the 2024 Bard reminds me of what Hunter S. Thompson calls in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (1971, Rolling Stone Press), a "rising sound". This is very, very cool.

[@douglaspope-gz1eq]

Outstanding video Dungeon dudes you guys are the bards of the D&D KZbin community

[@CorinShadowblayde]

Thanks for your thoughts on the play style for the new Valor Bard. I have a player in my campaign who is playing a 2014 Valor Bard, and I am looking forward to showing her this.

[@Zaeyrus]

Do you remember Selma Hayek dance in From Dusk till Dawn? I can see how collage of dance came to be :D

[@mortenbrandtjensen6470]

Bought!

[@MrFirefan1234]

I think that the Dancer bard actually pairs pretty well as a Monk Multiclass option, if you were lucky enough to get a game to go all the way to 20 I think 15 Dancer Bard + 5 Monk (Shadow for me) would be the sweet spot. You get Extra attack, Stunning Strike, an OK amount of Focus Points, Deflect Attack, and then Dancer features cover the others. Get up to 8th lvl spells, d12 Unarmed attacks, Evasion+, boost everyone's Initiative. Overall a big fan

[@RootDown_]

This is basically the character I've been theory crafting: Character raised as a Monk but left to study dance. Starting with Bard levels to get the Charisma based unarmoured defense. It looks like the Dance Bard's unarmed strikes are a Bardic Inspiration die, so I'm not sure if Flurry of Blows would use that or the Monk's unarmed attack die.

[@MrFirefan1234]

@@RootDown_ the dance bards Unarmed strike deal damage equal to their Bardic Die, and Flurry of Blows etc just let you make unarmed strikes so you can use the Bardic Die for damage even from Flurry

[@RootDown_]

@MrFirefan1234 That's what I was thinking. They're the same damage, but the Bardic Inspiration die would scale up higher. Wasn't entirely sure since Flurry of Blows is a Monk feature, and not a standard "unarmed strike" action the Bard's is listed as.

[@newtschmidt525]

3:25 “turn a success into a failure”

[@jeffm9770]

To me the greatest weakness of 2014 bard was lack of damaging cantrips.

[@Heimal]

I am forever grateful that I am playing a Grim Hollow campaign and the College of Requiems Bard subclass, which gives me access to Toll the Dead.

[@bigggamer4399]

The Valor Bard has been my favorite bard subclass and I'm glad your mentioning how the new base changes are showing how Valor is now much better. You can even get what you wanted from hexblade warlock dip through magic initiate as origin for true strike and Shield spell and just keep using true strike each round until you get eldritch Adept for Pact of the Blade at level 4. And unlike Valor, bladelocks can't weave cantrips into their extra attacks.

[@M9Seradon]

You still want to dip Warlock, primarily for Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast since the Valor extra attack goes brrrr with it

[@bigggamer4399]

@@M9Seradon but if you are in melee, wouldn't all those EB attacks be at Disadvantage? I guess you could take it for a Barcher, but then you'd need a decent Dex or invest in one. Interestingly, I think that if I'm dipping into warlock for a level, I'd say Tome would get more mileage, especially through a campaign, as you'd get three additional cantrips, two ritual spells, and an extra 1st level spell slot. You can also just resummon the Tome after a short rest to pick entirely new cantrips and rituals, unlike before. So then you aren't just a jack-of-all-trades with skills, but also of cantrips as well.

[@CheekSoda]

@@M9Seradon Doesn't EB now specify that it scales with Warlock levels (and not with character levels like it did in 2014 5e)? So I'm thinking it's not even really worth taking Eldritch Blast anymore since it'd stay 1x 1d10 unless you take more Warlock levels. I'd pick up Booming Blade/Green-Flame Blade though, either through Magic Initiate: Wizard as the Origin Feat, or by learning it since Wizard's spell list is now Bard's spell list from level 10 onwards through Magical Secrets. But I don't know whether BB/GFB can be used together with this 2024 Valor Bard.

[@M9Seradon]

@@CheekSoda it does not. The only real change is you HAVE to dip Warlock to gain Eldritch Blast since Magic Initiate and most features like it now specify Wizard/Cleric/Druid only. Valor is also the only gish that can throw out a cantrip as part of it's extra attack regardless of what spell list it's from which makes EB so valuable. That said, Booming/GFB are also quite good along with the new True Strike, but True Strike is the only one in the new PHB

[@CheekSoda]

@@M9Seradon ah if EB still scales with character level and not Warlock levels, then I agree it's worth dipping 1 level of Warlock for EB and using EB as the cantrip for the extra attack.

[@landlightcatcher]

Would you guys do a "what if artificers were in the 2024 book?" and changes you'd like to see with them?

[@Hedron-Design]

Jack of all trades and now jack of all spells ! This is going to make for some crazy spell combos. Granted its at 10th level so many may not see this feature which is sad in a way. However if it was at a lower level then that has it's own issues for sure. Also my college of dance bard will be a woman from Australia... IYKYK.

[@chatwithaninja]

Song of rest was crucial for any campaigns that used the alternate long rest rules.

[@my_dude_5742]

"bAAckWaRDs ComPaTIbLe"

[@Psuedo-Nim]

maybe Bards just shouldn't steal everyone's thunder. Better than Rogues, Full casters, encroaching on martials...

[@alansalas1880]

Then give Song of Rest to the bard when using alternate long rest rules.

[@thomasquesada7248]

Maybe don’t use rules that makes one class crucial

[@caerdwyn7467]

Best short/long rest adaptation is from, of all places, Baldur's Gate 3. You get two short rests per long rest. They heal 50% of your character's normal max hit points. Having a bard makes it three per long rest instead of two. Using this idea is Ideal for gritty D&D (short is a day, long is a week); hit dice were always a player-confusing slow-down of the game anyway..

[@JonSao]

Conjure Minor Elementals is much powerful than you stated. It works on every attack, being melee, ranged OR SPELL. So if you dip one level into Warlock you get Pact of the Blade for making attacks with CHA and also Eldritch Blast. And since the Valor Bard extra attack swaping doesn’t state that works only with Bard Cantrips, you can do it with Eldritch Blast for 2~3 beams, plus the attack with main weapon plus the attack from offhand. So you are adding the Xd8 from CME to 4~5 attacks, not 3. Is just insane.

[@ChickenSoupMusic]

Within it relatively tight emanation range. So harder to use with EB. Now a Dhanmpir Swords bard AOE flourishing could be very cool

[@ShaggySasquach4231]

1 level fighter or 1 level warlock gonna fight for “most dipped” class.

[@mpetrov2402]

Level 1 paladin gives you Divine Favor, LoH, mastery and other spells so it's also a massive dip.

[@dharmabm42]

So appropriate to wear a blink-182 shirt for bard video. Inspired to make a Punk Rawk Bard, maybe with Grappler Feat so I'm good at the mosh pit.

[@Voriclexx]

Monty and I had the same idea with the Valor bard! Of course, I’ve wanted to play a Valor bard already (which is something since I haven’t really liked bards)

[@DungeonDudes]

Valor bards are looking REALLY good in 2024z

[@martinschubert7031]

Treantmonk also made a video about conjure minor elemental featuring a valor bard with a warlock dip, foregoing one weapon attack for three beams of eldritch blasts xD

[@shishkabobby]

Look at the cantrop True Strike. This gives you a charisma attack via a cantrip. Now, a combination of weapon attack and cantrop is two very good attacks for the Valor bard.

[@westonepstein]

Wait till you see my Auto-Gnome Dance Bard/ Paladin based on The Nutcracker!

[@larswalter3167]

Dance Bard, very nice addition. Great potentiel for RP and fluff, and fun mechanics.

[@winterslastrose]

Love the fits fellas 💖🔪😎 I'm VERY hype to play a Bard in a high level campaign 🥂

[@magister343]

It seems to me like a College of Dance Bard should be able to ignore the verbal components of Bard spells, letting you cast them when silenced, but perhaps at disadvantage.

[@fershnibbity330]

I’ll be playing a bard for the first time in a new campaign a friend of mine will be running, and we’ll be using these new rules. Can’t wait!

[@minikawildflower]

I really like keeping the half caster spells out of magical secrets. Yes, it's a nerf to the Bard in terms of raw power, but I think it's better for balance and table-friendliness that the Bard is not accessing those subclass iconic spells many levels before the class that's supposed to get them.

[@jarrodbryant3242]

When Monty was describing the new bard’s higher levels as a “cacophony of magic”, I immediately thought of Bohemian Rhapsody.

[@Fafnirod123]

Love the new glasses Kelly!

[@k1llwizzy]

Magical secrets sounds like a buff, but some of the most insane options were amongst the 5th level hunter and paladin skills. Getting those at level 10 (Destructive wave being 10D6 in a 30ft AOE + prone and Circle of power is just insane) Also, hunger of hadar for a lvl 6 lore was insane.

[@sammacphee3065]

Why can't hunter's mark scale like conjure minor elementals

[@mattdahm4289]

Thanks dudes! ❤

[@segafan2437]

My Bard's Spirit Guardian will be a swirling ball of music notes, that is silent to everyone until an enemy touches the notes...where it starts playing the epic sax meme music as it does damage

[@Kiwi9552]

I wished the other lists came in more gradual for the Bard. Like at level 5 you can select one of the other spell lists and at level 10 another one. Lore bard would be the only one getting to all spell lists in this example.

[@jarrodbryant3242]

The dance bard is probably designed for the VTT experience with the movement control elements that are going to be a new thing. This bard is going to be pushing and pulling around the table into strategic positions

[@wizrad2099]

(Edit: I'm going to leave this comment up in case anyone else comes across the same confusion as I did in the wording. But I went back and watched the Magical Secrets section of the interview with Jeremy Crawford on D&D's own KZbin channel, and when he talked about it he seemed quite clear that it should be considered AND not OR in terms of the lists. Again, maybe the site I was reading just had it written wrong, maybe it is poorly worded in the official book, but it does appear that the intention is for Bards to pull from all 4 lists after level 10, not just choosing a second list. Again, leaving the old comment up because I doubt I'm the only one who will have that question.) So I just made a potentially unfortunate discovery that might nerf Magical Secrets by quite a bit. I was looking up the different 2024 classes trying to decide which ones I like more than the originals, and I remembered how OP the Bard sounded with 3 full spell lists from level 10 onwards. However, the wording given says "your Bard spell list now includes the Cleric, Druid, OR Wizards spell lists," specifically OR not AND. So I think you have to choose one of the three at level 10 and stick with it, not mix and match for the best Bard ever. I can see where that is open to DM's interpretation since it doesn't say you have to choose, but I've never known "or" to be used inclusively. Also possible that the site I'm reading just misquoted it, so I'm hoping they're wrong.

[@arc4382]

I believe the dance bard does not get extra attack, but I think it's interesting for multiclassing with other classes that like a good charisma stat. MADness aside, Dance Bard + Paladin sounds fun.

[@jodinsan]

@arc4382 They don't get extra attack, but being able to _make_ an extra attack just by using Bardic Inspiration is close. And that "someone got within melee range of me, I'm going to use a Bardic as a reaction to make a half movement, _give someone else a half movement, _*_and hit the guy for the audacity of stepping up to me._* The battlefield manipulation shenanigans are crazy. Imagine taking a couple of levels of Monk in addition to Dance Bard.

[@odinulveson9101]

One deadly musician coming up!

[@andrew23890]

monty was working a lot of musical bardic puns there

[@NoNameBoi9987]

For Valard bard, I feel like starting Paladin would be better than starting Fighter. You don’t get fighting styles, but you get divine smite and the new Searins Smite (which has great upcast) along with the Bless Spell. You also don’t slow down your spell slot progression at all.

[@SahalafidN]

We have a lvl1 bard now, he plays a shaman esc character with acolity bcground and as a human ha took the magin initate for wizard spells :D, at first level he will have technically 4 spell slots and a load of cantrips :P

[@elementzero3379]

I agree with Monty that the Dance Bard feels a bit wonky and gimmicky. I'm happy it exists for those who like it, but it feels like it's built for very narrow niche and that other Bards will always be more generally useful.

[@AndrewThoesen]

Let’s be honest, someone at WOTC got really into capoeira and refused to let a gimmick idea go

[@chrisvossler8795]

While the old Countercharm was absolutely a weak as everyone says, I have seen it used once, and that time it did probably save our party. We were level 10, and most of the party (5 of us) were hit by a dragon's breath weapon that forced a save against fear and paralyzed you while you were frightened. My paladin was in the attack, but immune to fear (Aura of Courage); everyone else failed. The bard wasn't affected by the attack, so he used his turn for Countercharm. On my turn I moved to put everyone who had failed the save into my Aura (which suppressed the fear so they could move and act) and cast Bless on all of them. By the time it came around to the bard's next turn, everyone had succeeded their next save thanks to the Aura boost, Bless, and advantage.

[@abracadabruh7420]

In your final thoughts I thought you were describing Stairway to Heaven

[@thepilgrim8336]

My daughter is going to flip out when she hears there is actually a dancing character. I am currently playing a bard of valor and when we get the new PHB I’m probably going to go back and reroll him to take the level of fighter and go the elemental route mentioned here. Exactly the kind of tool I’m looking for!

[@the_Royal_Crow]

It's really cool that the bard is branching out into other art forms besides music. I could see a slightly tweaked college of eloquence working as an actor subclass.

[@iLitTheSun]

New Hexbard is looking alive and well, I’ll gladly take a warlock 1 dip for blade pact then be on my merry way. And one RP benefit of all subclasses at 3 is your bardic career isn’t so tied to an eldritch patron-just a really kickass weapon. 🤘🏻

[@trevorkemp7947]

I was wondering if you were building the Drakenheim characters for the 2024 rules how would you do it differently and why? What would you do differently and how would that change their power or play style?

[@smilerat8070]

You left out that Valor Bard can replace 1 attack with a cantrip... Like Truestrike which will add a couple od d8s on their total. But also you can pick up shillelagh from the druid list to use you spellcasting modifier with attacks.

[@TheEmerald97]

Ok both Dudes have awesome shirts this episode.

[@evanunhinged5771]

Point of order with Starry Wisp: with the way the "Invisible" condition works in these rules, does that mean the cantrip effectively prevents targets from hiding? Because THAT would be awesome if that's how it works

[@sutekh233]

The song for a dance bard is dance of death by Iron Maiden, if you know, you know...........

[@ancientgammoner6961]

Valor bard can dual wield and attack with only charisma with no multi-classing, you just need to grab magic initiate druid for shillelagh and use a club (which is a light weapon). Since True Strike has the attacking with charisma built in, you can use the offhand for that attack and the club for all others. If you did grab weapon masteries from somewhere (multi-class or feat), having that offhand be a scimitar (with nick) to get 3 attacks with your action is great.

[@SortKaffe]

Nice! I only thought of using Shillelagh with Quarterstaff and PAM, which is fine as a Bladesingers, but a Bard really needs their Bonus Action for other stuff

[@jodinsan]

@@SortKaffe Most of the time, sure. Others, you just wanna _bonk._

[@qcumberpatch]

College of dance is basically a blade singer meets monk. Think ninja-whirling dervish. I have some good ideas.

[@Irokutarabelmont]

Hell yeah, time to make a Valor/World Tree Bardbarian

[@JoaoGomes-lk6du]

16:05 Does anyone know where they got this information about the valor bard being capable of giving inspiration as part of the attack action? I can't find a reference to that anywhere but it sound really cool.

[@ChaosWolf3]

Heh, no views marked. Don’t know I’ve ever seen that, got here pretty much the moment the video dropped. Great timing for my lunchtime entertainment.

[@akale2620]

Wasted your chance to say first and actually be it

[@shanemccausland958]

Holy crap new magical secrets sounds dope, but a big part of magical secrets is 2 extra spells known at 10, 14, and 18. So 6 less spells known. Wonder if thats compensated at all.

[@Heimal]

The Dudes said the Bard has 22 spells known at 20, which is the same as it is now, so yes.

[@cobbwebster]

Dance bard going hard imo. Its blending martial arts sorta with a full castor and that sounds fucking cool. Not to mention bards at ten allock cleric wizard and druid spell schools which summoning a bunch fairies snakes or monkeys while dancing is like really cool

[@pitmaster226]

Man, can’t believe you keep putting these out so quick. Thanks for the content, but please get sleep!

[@ricodetroit]

Point of note: I've heard a lot of people doing this lately, and I just heard Monty do it in this video. He said, "If you succeed the roll..." Technically, this means "If you come after the roll." What he should have said was, "If you succeed AT the roll..." ("If the roll is successful.") That little preposition "at" changes the meaning of "succeed." I think people are taking a shortcut because 'fail" doesn't have the same ambiguity, and you can just say, "If you fail the roll..." (no preposition needed). But as a writer/editor and a word-nerd, I wanted to point out that this trend is a worrying one.

[@guamae]

Treantmonk talked about Two Weapon Fighting, which seems like it allows a second off hand attack, always using Bonus Action, for a total of 4 attacks, or 48d8 🤪 I really don't get how that spell got published with that scaling 😮

[@flarelord8425]

Imo the only thing dance is missing is that it needs the bladesinger extra attack

[@brannenpfister2579]

Everyone talking about the Dance Bard when 1.) Valor Bard is the best subclass due to CME abuse and 2.) Glamour Bard is the best subclass in the PHB without CME abuse. Bard is the strongest class in the PHB, and since most tables will ban CME abuse, Glamour Bard reigns supreme. Truly an incredible subclass.

[@benjaminmalisheski6494]

I want to see a fighter 2 / warlock 1 (pact of the blade of course) / bard the rest of the way, who also takes the dual wielded feat on top of two weapon fighting. 6 attacks in a nova round, or conjure minor elementals and 4 attacks on round one, attacking with charisma for better hit chance. Kelly and Monty were right that it doesn’t really matter what your base weapon damage is at that point, but each hit does SOOO much damage that hit chance is critical

[@benjaminmalisheski6494]

Oh, and because the valor bard got the cantrip extra attack treatment, they could cast true strike for one of their attacks for a little boost

[@akale2620]

At max lvl eb does 4x1d10 so cme 4x on each eb hit and that's a cantrip, dual wield that's cme 7x plus 3x wep AND 4x eb. 2 lvl in warlock gets invocations, either hand or repel, with ago.

[@jakeryker3751]

Ok so how about 1 level dip in warlock for pact of the blade. Make that one the nick weapon. Pick up true strike with your non pact weapon. With the new valor bard attack that’s making all attacks with charisma.

[@rodneygriffin7666]

I'm a Musician. Never played a Bard in 5e. I might like to play a Dance/ Elemental Mionk. Tough build, but I'd like to play one. I like the new Monk to be honest. Maybe I could make it a combo? I can't wait for My books!!

[@simonmoody8400]

The Dance Bard instantly makes me think of the Monty Python fish slap dance

[@darkyoda1980]

Now I can play a samoan hawaiian style bard. That does the haka before and during the fights or even a capoeira type.

[@dirmusloner7963]

For circle of dance it would be more reasonable if they have perform (dance) skills and all the attacks would be combined by the use of this skill in 3.5 had a class that has this mechanic with perform (dance) skill and have feats that boost that usage on the skill. Slightly similar with maneuvers off warblade and school of diamond mind with one maneuver said that you roll a concentration check to overcome opponents ac in a success treat the attack as a critical hit. Same mechanic applied to the Clas for bards I tell you in 3.5 roll a perform (dance) skill to overcome opponents a in a success choose if the opponent is stunned or treat the attack as critical hit that would make much more sense to me. I try to remember the class I told you about but right now I can't remember it. Dm used it against our party in 3.5 campaign hard time to fight that bard that choose this subclass.

[@teresaharris9134]

bard of dance + song blade wizard. +10 to speed two attacks one can be a cantrip and you add both cha and int to your ac...thats a possible 25 ac unarmored with evasion

[@nuadai]

I feel like the Dance Bard is really a tactician and a chess player in combat. A friend of mine tells me he doesn't like how they step into Monk territory, but the Dancers are so far from the capability of the Monk in Unarmed combat. The Dancer's strength is in the safe repositioning of allies, imho. That feature seems really strong to me, and I like the other one that lets them bump the Initiative of others too.

[@jeremybosworth2275]

Well, there goes one of my favorite fighter/bard builds. With the change to Magical Secrets, I can no longer nick the spells I want from Ranger or Warlock.

[@dragondragondragon]

Nostalgia for the old smite? Now the spall slot > bardic inspiration is a free action non limited, ans several bards have a weaponised bardic inspiration, like sword bards but mostly whispers bards

[@tsoneca]

Every single class/subclass that have access to extra attack, nick, dual wielder feat and conjure minor elementals will rule the DPR meta. That and scorching ray (for nova damage).

[@charlesa.teotonio8089]

I wonder though, how many magical secrets can we actually pick per level once we get to the face-melting solo? Counting the additional spells known acquired and the number of retrains we are allowed on a level up?

[@queenannsrevenge100]

DMG and MM better be FREAKING AMAZING to counter all these power gains that each class is getting, or the encounter balance problem from core (and not fixed by Xanathar’s) is going to be exacerbated.

[@DungeonDudes]

I think we might be pleasantly surprised based on some convos we’ve had. Sounds like there is an aim to adjust monster power to better match CR in the MM, and the DMG aims to feature better guides for encounter building.

[@queenannsrevenge100]

@@DungeonDudes thank you! All I've heard so far is from PHB " more abilities! More features! Stronger abilities! More versatile!" And I get that the focus is on PHB because that's the new release, but the items that REALLY cause pain points for me running 5e are not the characters.

[@DungeonDudes]

To be fair, the PHB is the only book fully available to us currently. So it’s all we can talk about, and naturally we want to talk about awesome improvements. All I have to go on with the other two is a few convos with WOTC folks at GenCon and in passing, but it sounds like there is a distinct amount of work being done to balance all aspects… and honestly, fully reading the PHB, power aside, you can feel it being pulled in a more balanced direction, so I’m optimistic.

[@redeyejedi9940]

Valor with a one level dip in warlock and fighter op!

[@RoninXDarknight]

Honestly, my favorite bard is still the Creation Bard...with the changes to Magical Secrets their 14th level ability to just snap their fingers and make all those costly spell components means they can go even harder on a lot of the most powerful spells in the game without much to limit them. I like the idea of the College of Dance but I agree it needs a lot more work. It has some interesting features but nothing strong or interesting enough to make me want to play one.

[@zachberquist7285]

1 level fighter (Con Saves + Fighting Style + Weapon Mastery) + 1 level Pact of the Blade (CHA to Hit + Eldritch Blast) + Rest College of Valor Bard.

[@holderkin8362]

Armor of Agathys as well

[@adamcliff5570]

Conjure Minor Elemental is the most broken spell of the 2024 PHB. My table have already agreed it will be 1d8 per upcast and once per turn

[@brannenpfister2579]

A great fix. Probably just need to say “once per turn” and it’s fine. I’m changing it to gaining 1d8 every 2 levels you upcast it.

[@DownUnderDM]

Best thing about the new PHB? More regular Dungeon Dudes videos for me to watch/ listen to while I work

[@beowulf2715]

My college of dance bard is going be a master of Hip-Hop-Kido.

[@NSPresbyterian]

once you can share the ability with a partner, more like Combat Jitterbugging...

[@kylevanderwolf4446]

College of glamour actually seems really good I’m surprised you didn’t look at the changes to their features more. They’re much more powerful with the beguiling stuff.

[@brannenpfister2579]

Yep. It’s the best subclass in the PHB not including CME abuse.