I bet the executives still got their huge bonuses!
@OtisFlint9 күн бұрын
Most of them got fired, actually.
@ianjohnson12079 күн бұрын
36 likes shows how little people actually know anything about this!
@DarkoBukovec10 күн бұрын
By the way, I am employed at KTM in Mattighofen. Yes, KTM really has problems, just like the rest of the European auto moto sector. The main problem, the excessive prices of the KTM engine and consequently insufficient sales, we are told in the warehouses that only here in Mattighofen there are more than 70,000 engines. Therefore, we now work for two more weeks and then from December 13th we have a 2-month production stoppage and we are on forced leave an become 80% of the salary will be paid. In March 2025, production should run completely normally again. We hope that everything will be ok...unfortunately, it really doesn't look good for now, just like you say, let's hope that everything will be better next year.
@richardsimpson379210 күн бұрын
best of luck
@Emily-ou6lq10 күн бұрын
Nö. Ihr habt's voll verdient was euch da passiert 😛
@barebonesmc10 күн бұрын
Thoughts with you mate. Can’t be easy. I do think Pierer must go. Hopefully then a solution can be found
@barebonesmc10 күн бұрын
Harsh
@donbrashsux10 күн бұрын
Just sad 🙏🙏
@donaldolin72199 күн бұрын
We need simple cheap bikes. Anyone remember Honda XR trail bikes?
@Emily-ou6lq9 күн бұрын
Yup, still got my '92 600R I bought new back then. Fyi, Mash copied the venerable RFVC, added injection and made it Euro5 compliant. Meanwhile the carburetted, non Euro5 650L is still for sale in the US.
@martinandersson52789 күн бұрын
With today’s emissions standards there will be no simple cheep bikes Engine development and certification is the cost driver for everything with a combustion engine.
@dantownsend42469 күн бұрын
Itchy boots went around the world on a 300 cc single cylinder. Honda dealers can’t keep them in stock. Meanwhile ADV riders complain about the cost of 1250 cc bike for their weekend trip on green lanes. Something had to give
@carlatamanczyk38919 күн бұрын
I still have a 2003 XR250. Never sell it but I do get offers.
@clayman45759 күн бұрын
I couldn’t agree more. If Honda still made XR 250, 400 & 600’s with e-start and maybe updated suspension with the air cooled motor they’d sell every bike they made.
@THECONTROVERSIALCYCLIST10 күн бұрын
It's not a sad loss, KTM turned their back on the very customers who built their company. It's strange how KTM were more affordable when they were a left field non mainstream brand and when they started making 1000s of bikes a day they put up the prices, charged you extra to have a working Speedo after a month, lowered reliability from low reliability, and added a dealership network of absolute sharks. Also no one talks about how they turned their backs on great independent small motor bike shops that offered great service, because they were not high end enough for them. The growth of KTM is a classic story of greed and turning it's back on their roots.
@mhoppy663910 күн бұрын
@thecontroversialcyclist 🎯 I’m not a motorbike expert by any stretch of the imagination but this mirrors corporatism shown right across business since the early 80s. Shareholders over long term health of the company. Workers and cherished customer loyalty taken completely for granted. One thing’s certain - the directors and senior managers will be absolutely fine at the end of this “rationalisation” The ones deeply affected will be at the sharp end - workers on the line and customers who love riding their bikes. It’s a f@cking disgrace. Again. And again.
@Pompomgrenade10 күн бұрын
I expect Harley-Davidson to be next..
@showmytime91779 күн бұрын
@@Pompomgrenade same story there as well, only a larger fan base.
@tedecker37929 күн бұрын
A text book study of horrible management decision making. They thought the post covid bump was going to be the new normal. Lots of other companies in the same situation.
@richardjones31129 күн бұрын
@@mhoppy6639100% agree.
@Skyfloats7210 күн бұрын
When a motorcycle costs more than a family car, going bust was going to happen. People can’t afford them
@davidkendall16149 күн бұрын
Unfortunately, the ones who can afford them can still afford them. The rich get richer. Don’t see many billionaires on a dirt bike though…so other than the top end of the line, not much for KTM there. Other European manufacturers (Aprilia, BMW, Ducati, Moto Guzzi, MV Agusta, etc.) have similar pricing for comparable products. I think the biggest issue is that NOBODY will buy it at any price until they fix the quality, reliability, and customer service problems. They have a huge PR PROBLEM now that the blood is in the water and potential customers doubt viability of the company, the value of any “warranty” if they buy one, and the plummeting resale value with this issue hanging around. Would you buy a KTM now, with this going on? No demand and big supply means falling prices. Pity the existing owners.
@kugangles98609 күн бұрын
@@davidkendall1614 You don't see many billionaires on motorcycles in general. They pick more expensive less dangerous hobbies.
@davidkendall16149 күн бұрын
@ It wasn’t “LITERAL”. “More affluent” then. Thanks for clarifying my sarcasm.
@sideshow1011019 күн бұрын
rich boys toys. like the big gs's adventure bikes and it's not as big a market you think.
@davidkendall16149 күн бұрын
@@sideshow101101 No? Quantify that. Prove it. Plenty of market research and industry stats available to do so.
@Odder-Being9 күн бұрын
It's kind of bizar that a CEO's all around the world can lie how ever they want and there is zero consequence for them.
@dhc8guru9 күн бұрын
Let’s see. We got Carlos Taveras over at Stellantis and also Jochen Zeitz over at Harley Davidson. Both watching Rome burn.
@mackan67an9 күн бұрын
Let's Husqvarna be Swedish again
@floydblandston1088 күн бұрын
Unless someone wants to buy them out from under Chinese slavery? Rotsa Ruck wide eyes...
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Would need someone with deep pockets 😊
@ikvanachter60024 күн бұрын
This Will happen all over europe with all car and motor/ chemicals/ steel / .... Factorys. Many countries are still playing off thé Corona debt , thén theres thé Ukraine debt.. if you are Lucky you Will have a job in 2025.... If not. You Will have another job that pays less . And who needs a bike with 160 or more horsepower? You can do 30…50.70..90 and 120.. thé rest costs you your driving licence.. and with An enduro you Cant drive almost anywhere without being illegal.. that's what kills thé bikes sales for a great part .
@barebonesmc3 күн бұрын
@@ikvanachter6002lol. A cheery post 😊 I do get what you mean about stupid power on road bikes though. Especially when most people can’t ride 70hp to its limit 😊
@ikvanachter60023 күн бұрын
@@barebonesmc that's thé truth. , they all want more power but there brain cant follow... I have seen enough " good " riders get themselves killed on a +150 Hp machine. ( Also on a 20hp machine; but that was a bad rider)
@finesoul6779 күн бұрын
Far too many models, 25 different models of ktm, Why? No one needs that much choice, it’s ridiculous. In the duke range alone, 200, 390, 640, 690, 790, 890, 950, 990, 1050, 1090, 1190, 1290, now the 1390. Seriously why so much choice?🤯can you imagine the complex production and logistics and the cost of all those spare parts. Consumers got greedy, manufacturers got even more greedy.
@G1lgamesj9 күн бұрын
Yeah... too much KTM models and too much rebranding for a lower price, Husqvarna and GasGas should be a more low cost brand like Royal Enfield and not based on the mid range Duke's and SMC. MV Agusta should be their Bugatti Veyron brand and create new rich people collector toys like some other known brand did with Lamborghini and Bentley
@anirudhhhh9 күн бұрын
I agree 125, 200, 390 for the A2 licence and developing markets. It is price sensitive hence needs more options. 790 or 890 as middleweight One or two litre bike 1390, 1290 Simple lineup then they can focus on reliability.
@al44tec8 күн бұрын
I was going to say this same thing. Make a couple options to simplify the manufacturing process and lower the cost for the consumer and allow them to modify the bike the way they want after purchase. It is what Japanese motorsports have been doing for years and it’s a working solution. Competitive pricing is the only way they will sell more bikes.
@nicodiaz6276 күн бұрын
Add to that the fact that multiple bikes are wrapped a different color, for instance the 690 has the Husqvarna 701 and the GasGas SM 700. Same bike, different wrap.
@hailboognish38586 күн бұрын
Also none are assembled in the same way. There’s only one video on all of KZbin that deals with a super Duke 990. If I look up an adventure for how to do something which should be simple, bolt placement is completely different from what I’m looking at in the garage.
@thegrinch798910 күн бұрын
Thanks for telling it like it is brother.
@Poppi-G9 күн бұрын
An average priced motorcycle today costs more than my first 10 automobiles combined. That may have something to do with it.
@bradsanders69549 күн бұрын
And a new automobile is 40,000. EVERYTHING HAS GONE UP. Comparing one thing from the past against something new makes no sense. KTM's are the kind of thing, if you cant afford it, dont buy it. Like a BMW or an AUDI or a new full size truck. Dont buy em if they cost too much. (A new KTM 890R is about 18K, you could buy 10 new vehicles for 18K? Really?)
@G1lgamesj9 күн бұрын
While It is partially true what you are saying but all brands went up in price... you now have to pay 19k for a Ducati SF 900cc V2 while for a bit less you had the best equiped 1200 Monster R in the past...
@Poppi-G9 күн бұрын
@ That’s your opinion, however, you assuming that my first 10 vehicles were new certainly makes less sense.
@G1lgamesj9 күн бұрын
@@Poppi-G I don't know what you are saying but depending the popularity of the model second hand prices are cheap af
@Poppi-G9 күн бұрын
@ yeah it’s a buyers market on used bikes for sure. Wasn’t debating that. I was actually just trying to state a fact which is that the average new motorcycle today costs more than I paid for my first 10 vehicles. I had more than 10 vehicles by the time I was 20 (none of them were very expensive) but the fact I had stated remains. Sorry for the confusion.
@MaverickAus9 күн бұрын
No wonder they fought so hard to deny camshaft failures and refuse to fix the problems they caused.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
It is a sad tale
@brunocarmona49589 күн бұрын
For sure, now it is quite clear why they acted the way then did
@sideshow1011019 күн бұрын
if they'd gone the opposite way and offered engine replacements the goodwill alone would have seen an uptick in sales and maybe kept the creditors quiet for a little longer. turning on your customers is a nail in the coffin and ktm's refusal to acknowledge the problem then refusal to accept responsability for a shitty design flaw... goodbye ktm, your new chinese overlords re: owners) will welcome you.
@dhc8guru9 күн бұрын
@@sideshow101101I don’t think it would have benefited the company much. Flagging motorcycle sales across all manufactures currently exists. They knew they couldn’t afford to replace engines and took the conservative cheaper option that would show some good will but wouldn’t break them.
@barriewilliams45269 күн бұрын
I paid just short of £5,000 for my Yamaha MT-03 in 2021. It now as 8,230 miles on the clock, has been super reliable, and great fun to ride. At the age of 88, big bikes are just too heavy for me to manhandle around, hence the little Yam. The bonus being. I never really needed a big bike in the first place, the little Yam being loads of fun, cheap to buy, maintain, tax, insure etc. The price of big bikes is just silly now, and I can see a lot more manufacturers struggling in the near future.
@tonyp28658 күн бұрын
88, great job. Next a Yammy powered gopher.
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Certainly in the U.K. as the demographic gets older our wants change😊 and I think the days of the penile extensions are numbered 🤣🤣 the sub 400 category is the only sector growing in the U.K.
@hanhtoobala751010 күн бұрын
Where I from, hiring a yes man for higher position is called "Job for Mates"
@peterjarmesty188410 күн бұрын
Hard to see a future with this amount of debt!
@danstevens220410 күн бұрын
Hardly a surprise… even in bankruptcy they can’t tell the truth about reliability!!
@sthr21109 күн бұрын
Europe's largest motorcycle manufacturer isn't quite as impressive when it's also Europe"s most indebted.
@leandroflaherty9 күн бұрын
Sounds like all of the EU
@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff9 күн бұрын
Yes, I can be Europe's "best and largest xyz company" when I borrow shit tons of someone else's money and blow it all. 🙂
@barebonesmcКүн бұрын
😊😊
@rafaellastracom641110 күн бұрын
I wonder if Pierer Group has used KTM as a sort of sacrificial lamb, so to speak, to avoid restructuring their core business. It´s the only thing that makes a bit of sense because for one motorcycle manufacturer to get into a $3 Billion hole is hard to believe.
@davidkendall16149 күн бұрын
Well we KNOW they didn’t lose the money paying out warranty claims (denied). We know they didn’t spend it in the “customer service” department (unless they hired more people to tell customers “NO”). Maybe the Engineers with the know-how to make cams out of cheese and to turn off software and features that the customer already paid for are really demanding high salaries in the market place for their unique skill set? They had to set up the Extortion Department to extort money from those who wanted their “features” reactivated after the “demo” period. Not sure how much they spent to gobble up Husqvarna and GasGas? How much was paid in executive bonuses and acquisition for all the “good work” they were doing? Shame, because they turned out some very good motorcycles…when the motorcycles were running. Two years ago I ALMOST bought a Super Adventure 1290…but the dealer was “sketchy”…thanks be to Jesus NOW that I didn’t!
@rafaellastracom64119 күн бұрын
@@davidkendall1614 lol..
@metalsadman9 күн бұрын
@@davidkendall1614 that demo mode alone is diabolical and they deserve what's coming for them, sad to the common employees but yeah.
@pinkyellowblue00710 күн бұрын
I wish people were passionate about quality and the efficiency of making something.
@mhoppy663910 күн бұрын
Honda seems to be able to hang onto this philosophy. BMW motorcars has imho fallen victim to massive over expansion and they’re just not different anymore. I don’t anything about the motorrad group but I hope they’re not going the same way.
@pinkyellowblue0079 күн бұрын
@@mhoppy6639 Yeah, I wish Honda would have an option something for every price range and maybe just old school ads for them.
@floydblandston1089 күн бұрын
Translation: We're living on Chinese cash transfusions until the bank finishes the transfer paperwork to "Wei Fling Pu Motors", LLC; Hong Kong. Auf Weidersehn....
@howardosborne86479 күн бұрын
A subsidiary of Whoflungdung? 🤣
@6bt_str869 күн бұрын
Subcontracted through "KenweefkmNwhen"
@floydblandston1089 күн бұрын
@@howardosborne8647 - They're both under the corporate umbrella of "The IBS Group". 😁
@janetyeoman15449 күн бұрын
Chief corporate jet pilot Sum Ting Wong.
@AndyPat2399 күн бұрын
@@janetyeoman1544CEO Wun Hung Lo 😂
@ericlindauer71509 күн бұрын
Expensive bikes, with poor reliability and lack of repair parts, combined with a lack independent repair shop info or ECU tooling. There are customers going elsewhere. They need to get back to their roots and build a bike without all of the gadgets, like a TV screen for instrument display and keyless systems.
@dantownsend42469 күн бұрын
I understand emission controls on bikes , but give me a motorcycle with just Speedo and gas gauge. I can adjust my suspension manually and I can figure out what gear I’m in by myself. You don’t get all the electronics on bikes in third world countries and they seem to survive quite well.
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Keep it simple 😊👌💪
@bromkin9 күн бұрын
An excellent piece of work by yourself sir cutting through the corporate BS spot on.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
Cheers mate 😊 I’ve written so much marketing material I’m not blinded by the bull😊😊
@J.Harry.T10 күн бұрын
The 90 days, will be used to persuade creditors to accept 10% on the euro as final settlement. My guess is that they will have to agree because i doubt whether the KTM company actually has any significant assets. When the creditors agree, as they must, KTM will try to borrow enough to pay them off and then the whole thing will probably start again. The sums of money being toted about are absolutely huge, well beyond the value of any assets held and well beyond anything that could have accrued within a 12 month period. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that KTM has been trading whilst insolvent for years.
@ianjohnson12079 күн бұрын
Lucky your doubt is baseless They have over €3.6 billion in assets
@J.Harry.T9 күн бұрын
@ Where did you get that information from please?
@ianjohnson12079 күн бұрын
@@J.Harry.T Why didn’t you find that out before posting your comment? Because from your comment you’re anything but a genius
@J.Harry.T9 күн бұрын
@@ianjohnson1207 Can you back up your statement or not? I suspect not. The very fact that KTM has gone into administration should tell you that it cannot honour its debts and liabilities, which were initially quoted as €100 million. That would have been no problem at all to any company with (as you claim) €3 billion in assets. The facts will become clear in due course. In the meantime i will disregard your rudeness and your invented figures.
@ianjohnson12079 күн бұрын
@@J.Harry.T Excuse me! I don’t have to back up anything, the brass neck on you. All the financial information is easily found if you half half a brain, so looks like that’s why you’re struggling Do you think I’m your personal secretary 🤔
@n.elliott91229 күн бұрын
I personally sold off ALL of my KTM's in 2022. I could see the quality going in the garbage and KTM screwing the customers.
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Sad times
@Danger_mouse9 күн бұрын
KTM and the PMG have always been just about the money, never about their people or customers! It's taken 10 years, but the Nov 26 announcement was a sweet birthday present for me! The terrible handling of the takeover of Husqvarna left me with a bike in warranty, but without support, and worse still, put hundreds of Italian workers out of a job overnight. Loyal Husaberg owners were also cut loose, KTM having bought them just to finish them as competition. Then they moved on to Gas Gas, rolled out the same 'There'll be no adverse effects on the brand and workforce', then smack - All finished overnight the same as Husky. It amuses me greatly to see the company financially bankrupt, as they have been morally bankrupt for years! They don't look after their customers, indeed they use them as an 'army' of test engineers. (TPI, Xplor, anyone)??? 🤔 They have marketed READY TO RACE but not been even close to this, certainly not in the Enduro bikes, with inferior suspension and lack of standard equipment compared to other brands. I hope the company suffers a takeover from the Indians or the Chinese, it will be justice served 👍
@Emily-ou6lq9 күн бұрын
I totaly concur. Still got my '92 610TE.
@showmytime91779 күн бұрын
@@Danger_mouse well said.
@Danger_mouse9 күн бұрын
@@Emily-ou6lq TE449 for me, followed by 3 x Shercos. 👍
@Emily-ou6lq9 күн бұрын
@@Danger_mouse 🥂
@GT380man9 күн бұрын
We’ll know it’s a conspiracy if nobody bids. If enough debt is written down, and the product line reduced, there ought to be a business in here somewhere. Sometimes, creditors make an example of a restructuring and refuse to sign off on a debt write off. They’re entitled to seek liquidation as the last resort. Hope this doesn’t happen but how the dickens did they rack up so much debt?
@Gapihamiha69 күн бұрын
Extra payment 1000 eur just to unlock 890 adventure riding modes (on allready expensive bike), camshaft problems, not so good reliability , bad service experience ... etc is for me reason why i riding nowadays T7
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
I understand that one
@blairknight77939 күн бұрын
I forced KTM to buy my 790 Ad R off me after 6 months off the road, I will never own another KTM. Riding another brand now.
@Rushalot-x1n10 күн бұрын
Bajaj will probably buy the second half of ktm stakes since they are cheaper now.
@john7912h9 күн бұрын
Ktm Bought a 1290 sas 2023 , never going to buy KTM ever again, abs pump issue causing panic brake randomly, started to have coolant lost 250ml in 4 days and counting , paint peeling everywhere on the clutch bracket and reservoir , battery drain issue , between 50-80km the steering will wobble uncontrollably , if you let go and will also go right instead of straight. There was also a chemical / electrical smell when starting in the garage , the wireless key even in the bike compartment kept being out of range . KTM dealer said everything was "normal" . The adaptive cruise control took them a month to fix . I traded it and never looking back , lost thousands but that was better then keeping it. Dangerous bike. Believe everything you see in forums about KTM , it’s not exaggerated. Extremely unreliable!
@robkeller80089 күн бұрын
Yet their Off road dirt bike models are bulletproof.. can go over 100 hours without changing parts, japanese equivalent bikes go about 60 hours before needing replacement parts
@henryvaneyk37699 күн бұрын
BS. 2019 KTM 1290 SAR, 5 years, 50k kms, no issues.
@pekkapylkkanen69418 күн бұрын
@@henryvaneyk3769 I have experience 950, 990, 1190, 1290 (2018 I liked this best), and latest 1290. All R models and driven about 40-50 tkm. Only major issue has been 1190 air filter. And it was fixed by guarantee. I've been lucky!
@barebonesmc4 күн бұрын
Sorry mate. Sadly stories like that seem all too common
@barebonesmc4 күн бұрын
Nice to hear happier stories
@Bow-to-the-absurd10 күн бұрын
Bilions in debt. They ain't selling enough bikes to get out of that.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
I doubt it 😊
@ianjohnson12079 күн бұрын
The have over €3.3 billion in assets
@davidkendall16149 күн бұрын
Will be selling LESS with this hanging around their neck. Who wants a bike with suspect “warranty” and plummeting resale value, not to mention proven reliability and customer service issues, when the company is on the brink? Big supply, low demand, falling prices, bad reputation, PR and goodwill in the shitter. Good luck KTM. Chinese buyout and long road to recovery I suspect, if even THAT is possible.
@sideshow1011019 күн бұрын
slash prices and firesale half their range, keep only those that sell well, sell of the subsiduary brands to china (in the hope they don't just buy ktm alltogether) and consolidate what's left. maybe they might surivive but yeah, billions in debt mormally means they're toast.
@Bow-to-the-absurd9 күн бұрын
@@ianjohnson1207 where? What?
@walterhorn55679 күн бұрын
Make the same bikes but pull all the stupid electronics out of them so that they are reliable again
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Maybe😊
@user-se7vt5ow4e10 күн бұрын
I was seriously considering a KTM300 hard Enduro bike but the 13,000€ for a two stroke dirt bike sent me looking elsewhere. I bought a Rieju 300 PRO and saved thousands of euros. It’s a real GASGAS , not a rebranded KTM!
@oceanforth219 күн бұрын
Yeah and does that Rieju have EFI and an electronic power valve? Also 13,000€ is not the MSRP for the 300 XC-W and I’d have to believe you know that
@user-se7vt5ow4e9 күн бұрын
@ I did not want EFI or all the electronics. I also wanted a kickstart , premix and KYB suspension with linkage. For the hard Enduro 300 my local dealer quoted me 13,000€ plus IVA.
@oceanforth219 күн бұрын
@@user-se7vt5ow4e I realize they may not be your thing. What I’m saying is, it’s not just “a 2 stroke”. Far more developed than other 2 strokes
@endurojugHandlebarTank9 күн бұрын
I bought a Beta 300 rr two stroke. $3700 cheaper than the 300 KTM.Its a no brainer . 😂😂
@cainbeeping84809 күн бұрын
It’s sad for the employees. And the people that brought them thanks for sharing brother.
@barebonesmc6 күн бұрын
Well put
@robsonenduro331610 күн бұрын
They have to have very bad management to screw up so good and liked brand. Overpriced and too many models, no sense idea to into sport bikes, motoGP etc
@barebonesmc10 күн бұрын
Overstretched for sure
@mr.showers32659 күн бұрын
I agree, keep the model range relevant and simple.
@Fubar6849 күн бұрын
Love the ralley footage along with the updated news. Carry on , Sir.
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Dakar news coming😊😊
@DatBikerDude9 күн бұрын
When companies think they can bank on just their brand name and not work towards organizational efforts and customer satisfaction. This was bound to happen. Hope the loyalists dont get stranded
@barebonesmc5 күн бұрын
well put my friend :-) and yep it is the staff and the faithful that i feel sorry for, and i do hope a solution comes. february will be crucial, so i guess he is hoping that Daniel Sanders or the Benavides brothers bring home the trophy
@321-Gone10 күн бұрын
& austria needs to take him to court for fraud.
@showmytime91779 күн бұрын
@@321-Gone not to get political, but Austria is not exactly a law abiding country, there is white collar crime everywhere there, just ask Raifeissen about Russia.
@ianjohnson12079 күн бұрын
There are six board members do keep up and don’t everything on here as gospel
@barebonesmc5 күн бұрын
there were 6 board members until he booted out the whole board
@ianjohnson12075 күн бұрын
@@barebonesmc Yes now down to two, the comment was to the poster’s comment “Austria needs to take him to court for fraud” There were six board members when this happened not one man allegedly committing fraud
@marcusgeorge18259 күн бұрын
How does one person get how’s responsible for the P&L and more importantly, accountable, still remain in his position. I’m speechless. Thanks for the update on this one and all of your content.
@andrewlepage984710 күн бұрын
Thanks for keeping us informed. I had the 690 Duke R 73 bhp from a single i loved it.I had the 1190 Adventure R when it came out, the battery supplied was not big enough! I could not trust the bike to start so i sold it. After that the big Adventure bikes seemed to have issues with the electronics. If you use a bike for travelling you need to be able to trust it.I did not like the Demo mode, i beieve that created bad will with KTM buyers before the cadbury cams.
@stevenbatley86669 күн бұрын
The price of KTM to buy,run,and residual values are terrible, unfortunately many bike manufacturers have hiked bike prices to an unbelievable level, hence the Chinese stepped in and put's the last nail I'm the coffin
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
I’ve been saying for years they got lazy n greedy 😊
@Peedarb9 күн бұрын
Ktm makes some spectacular bikes, im sorry to hear this.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
Not good news
@kugangles98609 күн бұрын
Too bad. They're one of the last manufacturers that offers that big V-twin performance. Love em or hate em there's nothing else on the market like their LC8 platform.
@Fubar6849 күн бұрын
They do put the sizzle in the steak, but Fritz doesn't think about letting the grease drain away when he cooks up an idea.
@barebonesmc2 күн бұрын
I’m sure Ducati would argue 😊 but in truth. How many can actually use that power? I know a guy who replaced his 990 with a 1290 and has been trying to buy the 990 back ever since. I think that says something 😊
@Nobby-f1f9 күн бұрын
I would never buy a KTM after the way they treated me in 2000. I crashed my 620 supercomp supermoto. KTM, we're in the process of moving factories. This meant there were no spare parts for my bike. I spoke to the boss at KTM uk. He said it was the dealers fault for not stocking enough spare parts. My bike was off the road for months. Never again.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
Sounds crap. As I’ve said before. Near me I get both ends of the spectrum. The main dealer is terrible but theees a guy who just does the dirt bikes who always holds stock is really helpful and doesn’t charge the earth for parts
@ianjohnson12079 күн бұрын
No dealer keeps lots, or any parts on the shelf, it just cost too much to have all that money lying out, apart from basic consumables
@driesanalog41872 күн бұрын
Megalomania, serious quality problems combined with Pierer taking to much money out of the company. They must cut 80% of their BS activities and go back to the core business.
@barebonesmc2 күн бұрын
I can’t disagree
@calebgriffiths906210 күн бұрын
Robust....apart from 690, 790 & 890 valve train. 690 fuel pumps etc. I will miss them, having owned and enjoyed several. Lots of attitude and excitement - the whole point of motorcycling.
@ralphcantrell32149 күн бұрын
KTM should have stuck to their bread and butter - 690cc and down dirt bikes and dual sports. Our local KTM dealer went out of business because KTM forced them to stock all sorts of extra-large displacement, brutally expensive adventure and road bikes that they couldn't sell nor afford to keep. I have been riding for 52 years, and have probably only seen ten KTM motorcycles over 800cc in my area, and these were just passing through. Local dealers shouldn't be forced to keep expensive models that absolutely will not sell in their area.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
I do know more people who ride bigger ones. But it is the attitude that stinks
@ralphcantrell32148 күн бұрын
@@barebonesmc KTM should at least allow their dealers to decide which bikes they need to stock {and pay interest on) based on what sells in their area. Besides, any bike could always be ordered or brought in from another dealership.
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
@@ralphcantrell3214that would help some for sure
@scottsutton85839 күн бұрын
Really good info thanks. I like all your thoughts on this.
@barebonesmc2 күн бұрын
Glad it was helpful mate
@johnneyland33349 күн бұрын
$3 Billion debt with 5000 employees is a very rough position. The last 10 years of KTM’ brand acquisition spree and infrastructure expansions have inflicted several large and perhaps long term fatal moves. Coolest is not most profitable ??? Wow ? I’m a share holder because I bought 5 new KTM 450 exf ‘s over the past 15 years. The quality is fantastic !!! Let’s not loose the magic ingredients of people who have and can only make this happen !!! People !!!!
@barebonesmc6 күн бұрын
Well put sir. The people PMG have treated so badly though. I will hope for the future but it looks bleak
@danielpena-un8vl7 күн бұрын
Happens when you make crappy products, people have been complaining about issues with their KTM bikes for a long time and nothing has as addressed…. They deserve to go under at this point
@barebonesmc7 күн бұрын
Harsh😊
@grahamjesson546410 күн бұрын
Who will buy it, the indians or chinese? Another sad loss.
@thegrinch798910 күн бұрын
that's the thing though, it seems as if Stefan Pierer is doing everything he can to not allow KTM to be controlled by anyone but himself. Obviously Bajaj would probably be the best bet from a business perspective, but KTM would never be the same.
@Lonewolf_h2 күн бұрын
The problem is the ceo and other higher ups are paid way to much 😊
@barebonesmc2 күн бұрын
lol do you mean they pay themselves far too much? 😊😊😊
@Lonewolf_hКүн бұрын
@ yeah that exactly what I said
@barebonesmcКүн бұрын
@@Lonewolf_hI just reworded it for effect 😊
@advidaho86439 күн бұрын
My Genuine hope is that all of the companys involved in this nightmare survive and become more robust in the long run,they are all good brands with great potential and their employees do not deserve this degree of stress and uncertanty.
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Kind words. I do feel for the staff
@nitrousninja8829 күн бұрын
I was seriously thinking about purchasing an MV Agusta triple recently. I had no idea how thin of ice their parent company was on!
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
There’s less info on MV than anyone else in the company
@endurojugHandlebarTank9 күн бұрын
KTM bike prices are out of control. Concentrate on the prices. Also get rid of everything that is not KTM Enduro or Motocross bikes.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
I did like the 950 through to 1190. But they just got lost in the bigger is better charade
@matsnaslund294010 күн бұрын
Great coverage and deep thoughts as always. Cheers!
@barebonesmc10 күн бұрын
Wish it was better news
@matsnaslund294010 күн бұрын
@@barebonesmc Being an MX dad, where both I and the kid are riding white KTMs.... Been following this debacle for some time now... With original spare parts potentially coming to a halt as well.... How is the aftermarket reacting? Will we be able to keep our toys running? A true nail-biter...
@Emily-ou6lq10 күн бұрын
@@matsnaslund2940 I've been following the debacle since the early 80s
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
@@matsnaslund2940 time will tell. It’s not good for riders but I do hope better news comes
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
@@Emily-ou6lq lol 😊 once a berg man 😊😊😊
@peterlepouttre221910 күн бұрын
I was planning to buy a KTM but with an impending bankruptcy I'm not going to take the risk and will look at other brands.
@harrienelle64719 күн бұрын
It would be extra sad if Husqvarna and MV Agusta get dragged down with them :(
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Very much so. But looks like 2 of the 3 are already insolvent. End of February will be a key time
@vilasterrormotogp14199 күн бұрын
As I am not familiar with the rigor of management, I cannot help but feel sad for the employees due to the record in endurance that KTM has, even when they entered MotoGP, I already anticipated that in a short time KTM would teach Aprilia and Ducati a lesson in terms of who was going to be the most competitive European manufacturer but unfortunately sometimes those who risk a lot end up not getting the return they expect. The thing that is right to say is that the world is really in a process of regeneration, no one knows for sure which way it is safe to turn and with global crisis after crisis it is very difficult.
@barebonesmcКүн бұрын
Wise words
@jeffdrake8699 күн бұрын
Sad to hear this! Sad also the most every major global corporation puts profits before people…. letting their people know via KZbin this a sad, sad situation.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
It is just surreal and shows how disconnected he is
@goose9169 күн бұрын
Karma for ending husaberg 😊. 3 brands, same market and only cosmetic differences a commercial strategy? Not a succesful one.
@barebonesmc4 күн бұрын
Well put😊
@kloss2139 күн бұрын
The economy is collapsing its not just KTM.
@jimbroen9 күн бұрын
I hear VW, BMW and Mercedes all have huge problems. Their China operations are a disaster.
@barebonesmc4 күн бұрын
Not everywhere 😊
@paulprosser410810 күн бұрын
I expect a Chinese group will buy K.T.M out. manufacturing moved to China with a small K.T.M factory in Austria as an European distribution facility. There again I remember what happened to K.T.M in the seventies and eighties. History repeating its self.
@barebonesmc10 күн бұрын
Time will tell😊
@Free_Ranger_CT11010 күн бұрын
Bajaj in India already have a large stake in KTM. Not hard to imagine them taking the reins.
@Motozstu7 күн бұрын
Bought a 24 “ 790 Adv , guess it’s a keeper cuz it’s worth pennies on the dollar, might just park it in the living room as a conversation piece
@barebonesmc6 күн бұрын
Yt blocked my comment 🤣🤣 good luck with it mate
@sideshow1011019 күн бұрын
looking at the crazy range of ktm bikes and the number of subsiduary brands i can see how they ended up $3B in debt. add on the now typical not-my-problem response to 890 camshafts problems and 'premium' pricing too... goodbye loyal customer base.
@barebonesmc4 күн бұрын
Lesson 1 don’t piss the customer off
@giuliobuccini2089 күн бұрын
The dream of Pierer is becoming reality: a pure Indian/Chinese company. Austria plant will be closed for sure, leaving workers, banks and tax office with some cents each one. Operation achieved.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
😊
@TheDudeFromAus9 күн бұрын
A 30 day warranty on a $15,000 2 stroke 300 is what killed the 2 stroke sales. Sherco , Beta and TM were offering 12 months . Beta and TM still have the option for the more punchy bottom end carburetor models .
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Often overlooked 😊
@1950norton7 күн бұрын
Look at the USA distribution center. It is massive and amazingly extravagant. Vast open spaces that are amazing for a motorcycle company. When I toured it I was impressed but having been in the business for 45 years and being a part of the British factories final years I wondered how KTM could afford such extensive spending on appearance. Could the sales numbers pay for this opulence? Guess not.... Like the vast sums BSA spent in 1970-71 KTM spent their assets foolishly. So very sad and I am a KTM owner.
@barebonesmc7 күн бұрын
There are some parallels for sure. February will be telling
@lweleven34239 күн бұрын
How can a bank have the irresponsibly to let a business get that deep…ridiculous
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Indeed
@DennisMahaney-n3w10 күн бұрын
Bikes are way to much money and people don't have the money .
@barebonesmc10 күн бұрын
Yep. The idea of cheap transport is gone in U.K.
@Supernumerary10 күн бұрын
I want to avoid needing a blood transfusion. The blood supply is now contaminated with mRNA and nano components.
@donbrashsux10 күн бұрын
Motorcycling / motorcycles are not what they used to be .. 60/70/80/90s and 2000 they’re all way to expensive
@maxflight77710 күн бұрын
It’s the high interest rates, not necessarily the money !
@cj5489 күн бұрын
Ktm's* are too expensive
@BrendonHart13 күн бұрын
I'm glad I bought my Yamaha T7 ...took many for a ride including KTM's 790,890 nice to ride and yes suspension and power better......but one thing I was shocked with was the engine sounded like a bucket of bolts ....this alone put this engineer off these machines. However the Yamaha CP2 engine sounds beautiful at any rev and I use all of them...... alot!!! 31k now and oil changes and many tyres all its had!! Very Happy!!
@barebonesmc2 күн бұрын
Oh that seat though lol. Only fit for a passenger you hate🤣🤣
@maxflight77710 күн бұрын
*The world’s most exciting motorcycles* Blame the idiot who purchased MV Augusta , blame the idiot who produced more motorcycles than there were customers. (Ps , I have friends there….The employees didn’t learn of the administration by you tube …. Don’t tell lies )
@barebonesmc5 күн бұрын
that info was published by Enduro21 and backed up in other articles but if its wrong then that is something, it did say the video on the ktm page on here was the address to the employees, that was what clinched it for me, but if im wrong im wrong. being wrong isnt quite the same as lying though tbf
@williamrae99549 күн бұрын
Whoever just invested in MV Augusta with that debt should be in prison!
@rickhadfield10979 күн бұрын
After owning a 390 adventure with nothing but problems, good luck! Too bad what a terrible company but good bikes. No one has money for overpriced crap!
@freddiebozwell70497 күн бұрын
Cutting out, screen misting by any chance?
@barebonesmc4 күн бұрын
I wish there were less of these stories 😔
@willisbcteoh98403 күн бұрын
Same issue.. the "want" to sleep 😉 with the enemy 😅😂😅
@barebonesmc3 күн бұрын
😊
@Bowl_of_roses9 күн бұрын
I had a 1090 Adventure, in theory a nice bike and ,in practice, yes, nice when it was working. Overcomplex IT killed it (and the KTM-branded luggage fell apart). 6 months was enough!
@barebonesmc3 сағат бұрын
Honestly. The 1090 was my favourite. The 790 I had briefly just wasn’t put together well at all. Nothing actually fitted very well panel gaps seat rattle bolts not torqued properly. All sorts. N it was almost brand new
@TechnikMeister28 күн бұрын
Insiders I have spoken to have said that the MotoGP experiment will be closed down immediately and that outsourcing engines to CFMoto has killed the brands reliability reputation. When you are charging a big premium in price and you do not have reliability, you have nothing. Dakar support will be confined to only one team and production will be focused on the more affordable end of the price range, but a 125? Seriously? In parts of the world where dealers and support are scarce, the brand carries a theme that if you plan to venture into the desert, you better have a truck full of spares as a support, or take a Honda. Bench testing the engines made by CFMoto show that they fail within 50,000kms, and that puts them at odds with countries that have tough consumer laws. An examination of the camshaft problem reveals that its the basic oil system design thats at fault with only 50psi being achieved above 6000rpm, with less than 20psi showing at 3-4,000 RPM. Add to that the bad design of the cam fingers and you have a disaster. Its rumoured that engineers from Suzuki were consulted and their report was scathing. The losses from rectifying this are estimated to exceed $400m. It will not be the first motorcycle manufacturer that failed at the cliff of unreliability. Should someone buy a new or used KTM? Not in a million years.
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Interesting. I’d like to know more here 😊
@paddy68597 күн бұрын
Reported in various motorsports sites today KTM are continuing with a private test for the Motogp bikes and they will be racing in 2025 and 2026
@barebonesmc6 күн бұрын
@@paddy6859I’ll guess matoschitz money there. Red bull a lot to loose
@jandlouhy69149 күн бұрын
except for fixing material problem on camshaft and pricing ,sell it to Chinesse.
@barebonesmcКүн бұрын
Why would they buy it they’ve already got the tech. And cf moto probably have a better name right now 🤣🤣
@drgeoffangel54229 күн бұрын
Virtually all motor cycle manufacturers suck, and deserve to go under! The reason for this statement is simple! They and I mean all manufacturers, are designing bikes that are not what the average biker needs or wants! Every modern motorcycle suffers from way too much unnecessary and costly technology, way too much plastic styling, and way not enough practicality. Furthermore, motor bikes have become extremely heavy, extremely expensive to buy and maintain, and most importantly, they have no soul! One of the most important things that separate bikes from cars, is that bikes (use) to have souls, character, a desire to kick it over and the freedom of the road! But not anymore, all modern bikes are water cooled , with pug ugly engines , and no kickstarter! today , you get a blacked out mass of pipes and nothing to look at! The 40's 50's 60' and 70's were the zenith of simple beautiful motor bike design. The manufacturers realise it, and try to " re-imagine" the vintage bikes and always fuck it up! I'm just surprised how long these companies have existed , when they have all clearly lost their way! A simple example to finish with: I downsized because of health issues from a BMW R Nine T Scrambler 1200cc bike, to a tiny step through Honda SH I 125. Its a lovely little practical twist and go with a 125cc water cooled engine. However, it has keyless ignition, and start stop technology FFS! so that at traffic lights, the engine will automatically switch off, to save the environment, and petrol! A scooter that small doesn't need these features, and why not an air cooled engine and a kickstarter! I guess I will have to switch to a Chinese scooter next time at half the cost, and just as good! Point proven I think!
@barebonesmc5 күн бұрын
wow, you said the F word and youtube didnt block it PMSL :-) have to agree with much of your comment :-) and kudos for beating the bot cleanser :-) not sure how you managed that one :-) have a great weekend
@carlatamanczyk38919 күн бұрын
Corporate greed screws the customer need.... every time.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
Sums it up
@John900C10 күн бұрын
I hear Stuart Garner is considering a bid to buy the group.
@barebonesmc10 күн бұрын
Not heard that one. Someone mentioned Suzuki too but sounds doubtful to me
@paulthompson861310 күн бұрын
Better hide your pension fund
@thegrinch798910 күн бұрын
@@barebonesmc That would be shocking, KTM and Suzuki couldn't be more different as companies. From model production cycles to racing budgets they are complete opposites.
@williamrae99549 күн бұрын
@@barebonesmcSomeone having a laugh...another conman,that the biking media licked the backside of
@davidkendall16149 күн бұрын
Chinese the most likely, if anybody…
@LaurentiusTriarius9 күн бұрын
He's not helping himself. I'd be extremely pissed to be on KTM's payroll.
@barebonesmcКүн бұрын
Not on my Xmas list but I’m sure I’m not on his either 🤣
@comfysofa15499 күн бұрын
The one thing that i find incredible is the lack of spares support ( and thats not just for KTM ) Aprilia are at fault here too....people are keeping bikes for longer and, to a certain extent wanting to keep those bikes running also. Suzuki have understood that and put old bikes on the heritage program and produce bike spares for the old gsxr etc etc. I cannot get some spares for my old rsv4 factory (the very first one) - also own an sxv550 and part for that are even more scarce...if they want to make money start producing spares for the old bikes...youll clean up..! And yes just to add in...prices for bikes left me behind 15 years ago..!
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Good points. I agree
@seanobrien552010 күн бұрын
Interesting times ahead.
@tonosan46967 күн бұрын
KTM's slogan, “Ready to Race,” seems to limit their options. I think they should spend their resources on improving reliability.
@barebonesmc7 күн бұрын
Dunno if they have any resources left 🤣
@blacksheepspaniard39789 күн бұрын
Nothing will change? They will probably drop a couple companies within their portfolio. I just hope Husqvarna isn’t sold off to someone who has no idea about motorcycles. I was interested in a 2024 401 Vitpillen
@barebonesmc4 күн бұрын
Here’s hoping
@Jonathan-yd8ud9 күн бұрын
Too expensive simple as that
@barebonesmc5 күн бұрын
Simply put😊
@Rossi5939 күн бұрын
There should be only one focus: the loyal buyers. They need to get them back on board. I have an 890 that’s been in the dealer for a starting problem since July and, not unreasonably, I asked that the cams be checked. It’s been in for over 4 months. A misalignment on the rear wheel was spotted which I expected to be repaired or replaced under warranty but being stonewalled. A bike with careful use only by me or the dealer, never off-road, dry garaged and sub 3,000 miles. I’m less than impressed. I also have a 690 Enduro in the US and a 701 Enduro here in the UK both of which I love. Like BMW (who I left), poor quality and poor service.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
For me the company attitude is what’s gone wrong
@Rossi5939 күн бұрын
@ That’s exactly it. When you forget the customer you’re lost. Let’s hope KTM can find themselves before it’s too late.
@quacker9989 күн бұрын
Navigate financial challenges means let’s fire half the workforce and increase ceo pay by a few million
@barebonesmc4 күн бұрын
🤣🤣
@paradoxworkshop46599 күн бұрын
Cf Moto might buy them out...
@steven-vn9ui9 күн бұрын
I don't understand how a company can get that f'd up?
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
Arrogance can kill I guess 😊
@beefy09789 күн бұрын
KTM just became Chinese…
@dipling.pitzler76509 күн бұрын
No, Indian...as Bajaj already holds 48 % !
@barebonesmc3 сағат бұрын
Who knows what’s happening next😊
@robertabbott85419 күн бұрын
This will lower the resale value about 25% in the next year. Who would be stupid enough to loan money to KTM now? Only the American government. Let Germany, Austria, Italy, etc pick up the tab. We are not bailing out Stelantis . We are not bailing out Ukraine .
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Indeed don’t think there’s any talks involving any Americans going on
@donaldhipple49219 күн бұрын
I had a 05 300exc, great bike, very reliable, great suspension, powerful engine. I had a 15 1290 Super Duke, also a great bike, reliable, suspension, powerful. I was offered a trade for a 18 1290. But I don't want or trust fob ignition switch or gas cap release. Experience with these systems have shown them to be subject to interference from many possible sources. Your phone, other fobs, coins or metal objects too close to the bike fob.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
Oh the electronics 🤣🤣
@jamescampbell43349 күн бұрын
I don't think I've ever listened to a horror story with such beautiful video footage. Well done. I have 21k miles on my 2023 DesertX (18 month old). Glad I didn't buy a KTM or Husky. 😆
@barebonesmc4 күн бұрын
How you finding the desert x? The footage was from valley of doom final stage last year. Tiziano from Rally POV
@BH-td9to9 күн бұрын
It’s what happens to a company when they refuse to make anything other than an orange bike.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
🤣🤣🤣
@Coldestaevadoit8 күн бұрын
I hope the public doesn’t do like they usually do and pile on a brand that’s struggling all while ignoring all the amazing bikes they’ve produced. The sheep follow the herd and negative publicity like this usually becomes contagious. I hope we as a community can instead rally to try to keep this amazing motorcycle company around.
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Well put. I try and be reasonable and to be fair. My criticism is of the company not the bikes. I think if Pierer stepped down that red bull cf moto and bajaj COULD put a viable rescue plan together between them. But while he stays it will be almost impossible
@ianjohnson12079 күн бұрын
Your headline is wrong they aren’t bankrupt and they are not €3 billion in debt €1.3 billion in debt the rest is liability They also have assets of over €3.3billion
@barebonesmcКүн бұрын
Sorry but there’s no way in hell (except by their own valuation) that they have 3 billion in assets. And if the money was so easy to raise why did they choose administration? Show me where you are getting these numbers because you are the only one saying anything like
@ianjohnson120716 сағат бұрын
@ It’s all there in the 2024 HT KTM financial report, no company can just value their own assets to make their financial results better or what they think the value is, they are audited by a third party You should know that! It’s on page 14 of 44 Assets aren’t the problem cash flow is, if you’re cash flow has reduced significantly that’s the problem
@barebonesmc12 сағат бұрын
@ianjohnson1207 I’ll have a look again when I have time but it’s obvious we aren’t going to agree. February will tell if I was right or not I guess. We see things from a different perspective. That much is obvious 😊
@ianjohnson120712 сағат бұрын
@@barebonesmc I’m not disagreeing with you, it’s not my opinion, I’ve just read the HT financial report which is a legal document that has to be independently reviewed before it’s accepted and published Otherwise it’s fraud
@barebonesmc3 сағат бұрын
@ianjohnson1207 and of course. No ceo has ever committed fraud or bent the truth ever. If you look at the numbers Pierer himself has quoted they always change from statement to statement. What is it they say. There are lies. Damn lies and statistics. A good mathematician (or maketing department) can and will make any figures they wan fit their agenda. That is the way of businesss 😊 have a good weekend anyway mate
@missinglinq8 күн бұрын
I love my KTM 690. Love it.
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
Like the bikes. Not so much the company
@adibop19 күн бұрын
For enduro bikes In the UK, it's not really the price, reliability, or after care. For us where I live, it's the police. We have 100s of miles of the perfect countryside. For these bikes. Now, don't get me confused with parks conservation areas I'm talking coal tips old mines quarrys that sort of stuff but we get hunted constantly. I would love if they brought out a off road licence that cost me £500 a year and I hand it over and off I ride. I'd happily buy a bike pay my off road licence. Lots of friends I've riden with have stopped buying these bikes because we can't use them.
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
It is getting harder
@kkhalifah10194 күн бұрын
An article in Forbes says KTM has till Feb to make a corporate Hail Mary before being forced into bankruptcy.
@barebonesmc3 күн бұрын
Yep. If you listen that’s what I say. It’s a newly introduced legislation givi them 90 days because they failed to raise the 640 million needed to keep creditors at bay within the 2 weeks prior
@owenbruce41209 күн бұрын
When management loses touch with the user base and the changing demands...they join the graveyard of thousands of other companies...not mentioning greed 🤑
@barebonesmc9 күн бұрын
Well put 😊
@janezkovac66929 күн бұрын
Should i buy gasgas 700sm for 8.5K eur new , what are your thoughts........
@barebonesmc8 күн бұрын
If you are asking me if I would I would probably say no. Parts supply will be key. End of feb a key time