Barn find vs Top of the line! Stihl Ms400c vs Stihl 044

[@robertodebeers2551]

I bought two 044s in the early '90s, while logging at the family ranch in Montana. I used them both until 2000, then started using them again from 2010 to 2017. Both saws still start and run as they should; neither saw has ever been back to a saw shop for repairs. I still have the saws with 28 inch bars on them and lots of extra bars and chains, ready to go. I think the 044 is about as good as it gets for a mid-sized saw with great chain speed. Cheers.

[@BryanClark-gk6ie]

IMO it's the best saw Stihl made. I used them and the husky 181se/288's and 281xp's.

[@robertodebeers2551]

You bet!! @@BryanClark-gk6ie

[@freeborn288]

Old school for me. Because I’m old and so are my saws. Lol I bought em new in the 90’s. Still using em.

[@Ceemysix]

Just bought a 400 last week. I really like this saw. What sets this saw apart from others is how smooth it runs as well as lack of weight. It’s not all about numbers. With that said, I might be sending it to Joe soon for porting.

[@swere1240]

044 is a legendary saw

[@Eastcoastchainsaw]

He'll ya

[@FredFix]

I bought a Stihl 440 new in 2007. I have the original sales slip and could sell the 440 for about what I paid for it. The 409c stock specs nearly the same as a 440. I used the 440 tree farming, commercial logging, firewood ...you name it. I am cutting firewood with it daily. 440 is a legend and worth every penny. Maybe keep running 440 and get a 462 too. Update my ms250 to a 261. I have a Stihl 192c rear handle prune saw for branches.

[@82lube]

a young feller working with me had his saw stollen less than a year old. I believe his was Stihl 391, being proud of the man he has become I went out to my shop & pulled down an 044 that I bought new in 1995, it probably had less than 10hrs on it & looked brand new with case & all paperwork. To see the smile & the appreciation he had was worth to me more than any $$$ anyone could have offered me. Great video

[@BillRand-v1q]

I always fell timber and used a 66 on the landing when I worked in the bush. Now I'm getting older and stovewood for myself so I recently bought a 400

[@latinodeathjazz]

I really didn’t expect them to be that close. Kudos to you Joe on the porting gains. I have to say I’m surprised you shifted the exhaust lower on the 400 - I initially expected you to favour RPM over compression (not sure why, just kind of assumed the 400 would be a screamer with it’s lightweight piston and strato design 🤷🏼‍♂️). I learned something today that I look forward to considering on future builds of my own - thanks for sharing 🙏🏻 As always, you are a scholar and a gentleman.

[@JandSChainsaw]

I like them borh👍👍um a fan of old busted up saws 😃

[@justinweaver8787]

Me2

[@jimssawsnstuff8903]

I'd like to have seen the stock 044 #'s too. Pretty sure 044 stock would have been solid. Too bad the 044 didn't have a decent air filter on it for that test. Good to see you can give the 400 some torque with the right porting 😉

[@Traconian2]

I recently bought an 044 in great condition for $200 to backup my Husky 372xp. Enjoy it so much that I think the Husky is my backup now. My poor 460 Rancher doesn't get much work anymore.

[@jasongarrett1390]

Nice work and explanation. Makes it more clear to understand what's going on with the power band.

[@kiradelong9698]

Man I run 044 right now it’s a great saw I picked up demoing a bath and the lady gave it to me. I had no idea that saw was so amazing at the time. It has never had anything done to it including fuel lines it’s all original and starts and cuts amazing

[@archo0518]

I bought a 400 and absolutely love it. it seems to have good torque and revs out very smoothly and is light.

[@johnsweeney1712]

Great video, interesting numbers… didn’t expect the 044 to match the 400 for HP and Torque. I’d choose the 400 for the lighter weight, modern AV and wider Mtronic power band. No harm in having an 044 near hand as an occasional back-up, wouldn’t throw it out.

[@scottw.2450]

Hard to beat a good ol' 044.

[@CorwinBos]

Nice no nonsense work on that 400 and while I love the old saws, the lighter and better vibration damped saw is a winner for me. Ive been running a 362 for awhile now, and been really happy with it. Only thing Ive done with mine is a WCS muffler and air filter which really woke it up, and swapped to a 25" light bar with a half skip chain.

[@7eis]

362 is awesome with a 25 light bar. Got the reach for blocking down, excellent bump up in bar length and power from my top handle. awesome positioning in the tree with the wrap handle. 25" is the sweet spot where I can work very close to the ground without bending over or squatting. For more than a tank of bucking I'll grab my 500 or 660 from the van though.

[@CorwinBos]

@@7eis Yup, I can borrow a 660 with a 36" if I need it, but I very seldom need a saw that big for what I do. That 25" bar is a back saver though, as Im 6'7", even though my buddies think its just too much. I ran a full house chain on that 25" for a bit, but I found the saw was just a little under powered for it. Switching to a 1/2 skip and being able to keep the revs up helps a ton. Only thing I should have done different when I bought the saw was getting a full wrap handle on it.

[@elizabethreed2945]

Yeah I’d go with the 400c I use a lil hot rod 362c everyday and it out works every saw in the woods. Cool video Thankyou.

[@OriginalTailhunter]

Old school. I like it. New stuff is nice but old and reliable is nicer.

[@vinzer8808]

Man they're close..... I thought 044 would've taken the cake, nice work as always

[@brettbrettson69]

044 all day. I'm not a weight weenie so give me pre EPA porting, carbs and top cover's that make sense.

[@Houseworksaws]

Great video man.. I’ll keep my 400 even tho I’m a firm believer that the 044 is one of the best saws ever made. The 400 as a work saw is super lightweight and ergonomic. Thanks for sharing and putting the work in to make them 👍

[@rustyshackleford4650]

Recently got a ms400 and it’s amazing, got it with a 20&16in bars, running it a lot with the 16in for smaller stuff and it rips right on thru it, but also use it on the bigger stuff.

[@kenberscheit948]

got a 391 with a 25" bar and walks thru wood like the big boys , can almost keep up with my friends 462/28" ported.. also just got the ms056 running again , was running with 2 cylinder bolts gone and 2 loose, also have a husky 2100Cd (the harley of the saws) has a 48" bar and rumbles

[@christopherlehman4045]

If your buddies “ported” 462 can’t waste your 391 something I’d really wrong being they’re not even close stock for stock.

[@kenberscheit948]

going to put a 28" bar and chain on the 056 and see how it compares to the 460 when blocking. @@christopherlehman4045

[@terrykrall]

I recently took an 064 in to stihl to price a new piston and cylinder, the saw had no compression thanks to a neighbor who I made the mistake of letting him borrow it. The stihl rep was there that day and I asked if I would be better off buying a new similar saw or rebuilding the 064. Stihl stood there and said rebuild the old saw, you’ll be better off! the rebuild was 800, a new saw would have been 1400 or so.

[@Greg-rf1dx]

Thanks so much for the 044 porting numbers Joe! I will adapt my work saw accordingly. Would you mind sharing your woods port numbers for an 026? Would be very much appreciated! Thanks so much 👍

[@chadbrewer6882]

Nice work! I like them both, but the 400 for me! Creature comforts and well over a pound lighter? I’ll bring a 400 home eventually. Thanks for your time Joe.

[@TommyUhlman]

Great video joe. I think the win goes to the new kid. Like you said that broad usable power range would be nice in a strong work saw. Plus the lighter weight would help too. Both great builds though. 😎👍

[@jacobhein4319]

It would be interesting to see that 400 with more intake timing. I ported mine so the intake opens at 85 or 170 duration. Also opened the strato intake into the main intake as well. Exhaust is 100 with a base gasket delete and i did some lower transfer work but didn't cut out the cylinder on the exhaust side like you did. My 400 pulls a 28 inch bar almost as good as a stock 462. I think ill try cutting out some of the cylinder by the lower transfers soon!

[@dynojoemods2764]

Might have to try a bit more intake sometime. How is it a fuel usage? I try and keep the intakes somewhat conservative to try and keep fuel milage up. Have not messed much with connecting the stratos.

[@jacobhein4319]

@@dynojoemods2764 ah yes it definitely uses more fuel and i find the 400 kinda has a small gas tank. So i do find myself filling up more often but i dont mind.

[@mfsaws8240]

Wow didn’t expect to see them that close. Great video! I’d take the 044. As a mechanic not a fan of taking my stuff to a dealer to have a code ran if the saw is acting up and everything mechanical checks out.

[@andreawhalen4142]

Yup screw all the new shit and the dealer bs, i hate going to any type of dealer, stihl is just a bunch of thieves.

[@andreawhalen4142]

I wish he would stop modding dealership only stuff, 99 percent of people aren't going to buy a thousand dollar saw and mod it. I don't mind testing the new crap stock just to have a performance goal to meet or exceed. I have zero desire to screw with that mtronic horseshit and a magnesium piston either. All i care about is how tough the saw is, spending my money longevity over everything and function over style, only a moron gives two shits what the tool looks like. As far as weight goes, if a pound or two bothers you that much you shouldn't be using a chainsaw go play with your toys, you should be strong, if not don't run a chainsaw anyways your too soft. I'm already fed up with the complete pussafying of grown men as it is, if it's too heavy then go play with your crank geek.

[@em4703]

An m-tronic carb saw is a regular carb saw with a solenoid instead of the mixture screws. Theres nothing on it that cant be fixed by yourself. Its not a rocket, you dont need the dealer or his computer lol. Stop falling for dealership stories. Of course they want people to believe only they can fix them

[@andreawhalen4142]

@@em4703 Didn't say i couldn't i'm saying that if any of those series of saws needs something there is no aftermarket for them and you gotta go through the dealer. Also magnesium as a piston material is not going to bode well for longevity.

[@andreawhalen4142]

@@em4703 The m-tronic rate of failure is unexceptable, likely due to modern garbage fuel but still, i have converted a few back to non m-tronic with mixed results. To each their own, i have never been a stihl guy, just don't like em period.

[@guymansford7123]

Thanks. This was really helpful. I bought an old "barn find" 044 12mm myself last year. Got it running and lightly ported it with gasket delete and muffler mod. Runs like a dream and cuts as well as my 461. Good to see some dyno numbers as I have no way of judging except that I like cutting with it. These old saws have classic status for a reason and compared to paying 1300 usd in the uk for a 400 I know which I prefer.

[@mountainlifewithdavidkelsie]

Just came over from buckins channel and man this was my first video and you shocked me with this one! 044 is my favorite saw and it’s shocking to see that the 400 is pretty much the same! Love the content bud keep it up!

[@dynojoemods2764]

I was very surprised with the ms400 myself! Thank you for watching!

[@eriksforestryvision8751]

I love the "new gadgets".. but for me I'll take a healthy 044,440 3/4r wrap saw all day over a 400c. Coming from a guy who loves his 462.. Great video Joe

[@rickyflinchum2909]

I'll take any old school pro model stihl chainsaw over most of the new stihl stuff any day. Only new saws stihl puts out that I like are the 261 362 and the 462. Most new stihl stuff is garbage. The 500i is quite nice but I don't think it offers anything over a good built 462 tuned in real well. The stihl MS 440 is probably my favorite saw that stihl made. That being said I will still probably buy a 500i at some point.

[@julianlaustsen1991]

Do u touch the stratos when porting m tronic saws?

[@dynojoemods2764]

No, I dont typically mess with the stratos

[@rmac41981]

I ran a 044 years ago but vibrations are brutal compared to newer saws.

[@SixOFord]

No replacement for displacement. As for which saw I like best, I can't pick one or the other. I like them all ! Some may say I have a problem.

[@IndependenceIron]

I like the old, and newer up to 2000s. Not a huge fan of the new electronic saws but do plan to maybe pick up a 661cm. Great video.

[@jakegorman7121]

I firmly believe they dont build anything like it once was done, but boy, that new-fangled thing looks great! Enjoy your content. Thx

[@Duanepa.2]

Thanks for another awesome video/comparison. Tried and true vs shiny and new? I’ll take one of each! Best Answer 😝

[@mrfirewood6215]

For an all day work saw the 400 looks like it's a winner

[@kwmiked]

I like new, trying to decide on a 362c or this 400. Mainly for personal use cutting big oak on property

[@dynojoemods2764]

I really like the 400

[@kwmiked]

@@dynojoemods2764 ok cool, ill have to look into them a little more, thanks 🤙

[@JunoTafoya]

To bad you couldn't get your hands on arguably the best saw stihl has ever made 044 with the sought after 10mm wrist pin.Torque and power to weight ratio were amazing.

[@siskiyouwoodsman4279]

I have one that I bought years ago from a logging outfit quitting business. I’ve rebuilt it once and added a dual port muffler that really woke up a saw that was already better than any similar displacement saw I’ve been around. Yes it’s a 10mm; best saw Stihl ever made. I have many Stihl saws, some new, but I always go back to the 044

[@JunoTafoya]

@@siskiyouwoodsman4279 When you rebuilt it did you use aftermarket or oem parts?I'm in the process of rebuilding but I'm saving up for original equipment.

[@siskiyouwoodsman4279]

@@JunoTafoya I couldn’t get OEM at the time and went with the Italian brand that has a good following and it’s been great with lot of hours on it. The OEM stuff for the 10mm is getting hard to come by

[@lumberjacksons4468]

Hey brother love your videos. I would go with the ms400c it’s lighter, I broke my back 12 years ago falling timber and when I can save weight on my saws and produce as much power as a heavy saw . I’ve got both saws and I never use my 044 anymore and hardly use my ms461 anymore since I got my ms400c and modified it, it’s an absolutely great saw for it’s weight class

[@brettbrettson69]

We have a 400cm at work and it's mediocre at best. I hate those auto tune carbs

[@lumberjacksons4468]

@@brettbrettson69 I’ve done a good bit of work to mine and I love it

[@brettbrettson69]

@@lumberjacksons4468 see that's the problem. Our saw is stock and I'm not allowed to modify it :(

[@lumberjacksons4468]

@@brettbrettson69 that sucks because the 400 really comes alive from a little work

[@joesalazar770]

I am in the same boat had a spinal cord injury from a auto accident. Was in a wheelchair for five years six surgeries later I'm walking some and back at doing a little bit of logging felling and the easier stuff no heavy lifting exc. But I do still enjoy cutting up wood with a chainsaw even if its only firewood I use an old Ms 390 that's had the muffler ported and been thinking I should probly go ahead and port the ports as well. It's reasonably light around 10.39 pounds I've taken a little off it to save weight makes it easier to handle.

[@chrismuncey3861]

How much did you that off the base of the 044

[@justinweaver8787]

Sweet saws both of em great job buddy!!

[@waynedub1167]

A spur sprocket on the 044? Didn't know they made them for it.

[@mrobsoletesvintagehomestea9156]

Interesting comparison.

[@jemkeeper]

I have a 400 and was wondering how do I send it to you for the same thing?

[@dynojoemods2764]

Visit the website, www.worksaws.com and schedule a porting service appointment. If you have any questions send me an email. Thank you

[@christophercollins2330]

044 has proved itself in battle even if a fuzz heavier than 400c. Not a big fan of the 400c little side cover even though it has captive nuts. M-tronic system has electric components that could potentially fail. So it's a win for the 044 old-school

[@IndianaDoug]

The magnesium piston is a game changer.

[@eurokid83]

It certainly is.

[@ishure8849]

G'day Indiana Doug, I've been running a stock MS400C for six monrths and it's very fuel efficient as well as light weight and it pulls, but it is only a medium duty saw I would never beat it up in in the three foot box and Iron barks 660 and 880 only 👍🇦🇺.

[@Super-Dave-Outdoors]

I am interested in seeing how they hold up with long term use compared to aluminum. Magnesium is very reactive with mild acids and susceptible to heavy corrosion with saltwater (greetings from Matagorda Bay!). Maybe Stihl cooked up an awesome alloy to combat those problems? It is an amazing machine regardless!

[@ryanolep1078]

F1 still uses aluminum pistons. yes they have tried the magnesium and no price is not a factor.

[@andrewhill7071]

Guess i will hang onto my old 042, thanks

[@malisinimicus4358]

the old 029, O36 and O44 saws were stone Axe reliable. The O29 was the best handling all day'r firewood saw for up to 10" you could ever ask. I stihl have my O36 which works great but will now be my back up saw to the new MS400 i just picked up. high volume oiler to be installed shortly. A wood burning stove and a reliable means to harvest firewood is the basis for being prepared

[@jensenwilliam5434]

Like this video thank you I like the older saws.

[@christopherlehman4045]

Well should have known the 044 was going to beat out the 400 even though I picked the 400 to win, was very close though so for the less weight and in my opinion better handling saw I still would pick the 400 to work every day with.

[@sawzalvanreij]

good morning! would love to get this done to my ms-400c,please let me know if this is of interest to you,allan,usmc.

[@Alan_Hans__]

Is the dip in the power due to the muffler geometry?

[@dynojoemods2764]

On the 400c? That is where the m tronic is trying to tune as I am loading the saw down.

[@onthelake9554]

You turned a 400c into 500i but 2 pounds lighter . Awesome man. I'll send you my 400c one day when I can do without for a while.

[@Aaron_A_Lynch]

#Oldschool😎🤙🏻

[@normdickson2438]

My older 044 was a beat of a saw hard to beat that power of that old girl I’m older now and much prefer a smaller saw seem to work good for me

[@patrickpoulard24]

It would be the 400c for me. I would actually buy one but I already have a MS391 and a MS 500i but I do love the 400c because of its light weight. 😊👍🏿

[@rickyflinchum2909]

500i is on my to get list very soon.

[@patrickpoulard24]

@@rickyflinchum2909 Good for you, the 500i is one hell of a saw. 😊👍🏿👑👑👑👑👑👑 #stihlpower #stihlisyourdaddy #stihlrunstheyard

[@rickyflinchum2909]

@@patrickpoulard24 My best friend bought one a couple years ago but they were scarce around here where I live. Pretty common here now so I think I'll get one.

[@patrickpoulard24]

@@rickyflinchum2909 I'm in New York, and it took me about 6 months to finally get a 500i. Where are you from??????🤔

[@rickyflinchum2909]

@@patrickpoulard24 Virginia

[@230e4]

Thanks fo the video. Congratulations on the 044 barn find! Stock the 400 has not impressed, I am looking forward to running a ported one. It is interesting to see how close your 400 build matches a stock 500i in fact a little more horsepower. It would be great to see another dyno run on the 400 after it is broke in, I wouldn't be surprised to see the torque above 4.0. This build is going to make for a nice work saw for sure, especially for those that prefer to fell with a 20" or 24" light bar. I wish Stihl would sell them with the wrap handle, large side cover, better spikes, and a high output oil pump. It sours the deal when you have to pay $$$$ for a kit and mod the oil pump. What was the squish on that 400 stock and with the base gasket delete?

[@dynojoemods2764]

I didn't check squish stock. Had it in my mind I was going to cut the Chamber, just went that route, sorry.

[@230e4]

@@dynojoemods2764 That's ok, thanks for responding. It would would be interesting to know how this saw is going to be used and hear feedback from the owner after a few months.

[@dynojoemods2764]

@@230e4 Saw will be going to a full time tree service. I will see if I can get him to do an update in a few months.

[@poparamiro]

Awesome work and video!

[@dynojoemods2764]

Thank you!

[@toast47624]

So out of curiosity I copied your 395 recipe. I have typically taken a bit more material than you are and run a bit more blow down but I love your dyno information and its proven a few things to be pure myth. So anyway I build this 395 to see if it goes better than mine. Yep it did. It had more snap off the bottom and more midrange, I think mine has a bit more top end but I prefer your port job. You do bloody nice work Joe and having a dyno is the only way you can developed saw as you do. I'd like to thank you for saving me several hours grinding. I have also been cutting the muffler inlet bigger on my CNC and matching the cylinder outlet to it, this is a fair bit of work and I'm not sure it's even worth it watching your dyno results. My only criticism would be that your videos give the impression this is pretty easy to do and happens quickly but I know full well how much effort your are putting into this off camera. I'm sure plenty of us appreciate you taking the time to make this channel. PS I've just brought a 592 so I look forward to you porting one of them.

[@dynojoemods2764]

Thank you, I am happy to hear the 395 runs well for you.

[@ozdatman]

O44 for me, but I don't have to make a living on a saw. If I claimed all my tools and changed saws every couple of years you would go 400.

[@FYMM69]

I still appreciate the older Non EPA saws and with any luck my rithmatic with make my early model 044 a success once done. Appreciate your work and help Joe. Thank you

[@Thumper68]

I have an original all metal 041 AV that’s an absolute beast none of that plastic kid stuff😂 I’d like to see one on the dyno someday. It rips harder then my 372xp does and it’s no slouch.

[@jimmussetter6584]

I have a dirty old stock 044 and an XS400c. I use the 400 more. It annihilates logs.

[@dynojoemods2764]

That xs400c is probably a brute!!

[@iffykidmn8170]

Actually, prefer my 10mm over the 12mm, I will take a light weight ported 261 over the 400.

[@MikeWest_W]

I didn’t know saw mods were a thing. How do you find a local shop to do work like this. Really cool video even though I’m not exactly sure what the mods were. 2 cycle timing is dictated by port location?

[@dynojoemods2764]

Not sure where you are located. Most people mail in the saw, but depending on where you are I know builders in a few different states. Port placement determines the duration of the port.

[@ejsocci2630]

I really enjoyed the way you do your videos thanks

[@willhahn7761]

Out here in the big timber country of the pacific northwest 44stihl dominated the woods

[@pauldow1648]

Thanks for this demo.

[@LiveFreeOrRIP]

Im not a huge fan of the 400. seams like its a saw that didnt need to be made. if you didnt want a 362 why not just buy a 462 or a 500i... I would absolutely chose either of those over the 400.. Yea I guess they cost a little bit more but if you dont have the scratch for a 462 getting the 362 is just fine I guess. Now that the 362 is almost 1000 to me its a MEH saw at that price. I would take a 462 to me its on another level of power over the 362 if thats your goal is to cut. paying 200 whatever more is an obvious choice to me. But not everyone needs a power house I guess.

[@fabzacres-blackcat]

I’ll take the old school 044 everytime over the 400c … 400c IS a nice saw but will it be around 20,30yrs from now? With the strato port controlled air-leak engine design imho no way

[@rickyflinchum2909]

Just take the old school 440 and cut the new fangled 400c in half. I can't stand any of the stihl strato engine equipment.

[@dogrunner100]

I can save a pound and it’ll work anywhere, anytime with little fuss? Sign me up for the 400.

[@dominicsapienza]

Phewww nice gains

[@simpleman4224]

I gotta go old school!

[@justinweaver8787]

Me2

[@nicubrata5204]

I prefer old school 044 all day.

[@mmholling87]

Old school for me.

[@christinney9441]

I want that done to my 400. I will be contacting you.

[@nateolmsted899]

Old school all the way how much do you want for that old O44

[@dynojoemods2764]

It's a customer saw sorry.

[@andreawhalen4142]

First and foremost is cost, parts for an 044 are all over the place with the 400c your stuck going to the dealers, i absolutely hate being beholden to the fricken dealerships period.

[@Jonny-wn1fl]

Do you try to improve upon these numbers ever or just stick with them?

[@dynojoemods2764]

I stick pretty close to them. Sometimes on one's I've built a lot of I will change it up some and look for more.

[@BAMBAM3316]

Fit the new mtronic stuff to the old saw.

[@francfortina3473]

Still like my 036.

[@Greek5425]

The new smog saws aren't designed to make power,they are designed to run hot,burn clean,and not emit hydrocarbons

[@mikezupancic2182]

Ill take a $100 find any day of the week.

[@be.ndover]

theres no school like old school

[@smplyizzy]

I hate those new fuel caps Stilhl uses.

[@davediesel90]

They hardly new, they're about for ages now

[@edwinburns4785]

I"ll take the old.

[@russellholding1877]

new one have old one.

[@brandywine1548]

044 or nothing

[@mattmacleod5616]

Anti vibe is what I looks for nowadays.

[@EricaMTB]

It's only a win for the Stihl engineers who have been paid to achieve nothing for the last 25 years.

[@royb.1441]

🙄Except that the 400 is over a pound lighter and way better on fuel economy

[@nuffinpersonal]

Combustion engines are under heavy regulations to become more fuel efficient and even more environmentally friendly. These regulations often cause product advancement to slow down.

[@elijahmerrill9045]

Except make the saws run cleaner (as required) with no loss in power?

[@davediesel90]

Luddite

[@deanbaker6456]

wtf is a steal