109. Timing - What is it? Part1

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Barry, FYI, I just posted a video ("STROKE TIMING … A Complete MythBusting Study of Stroke Acceleration Effects") that includes excerpts from your videos (with links to your videos in my video description). Please let me know if you have any comments. Sorry I didn't try to contact you before posting my video. I thought about it, but lost sight during the hard work of putting the video together.

[@puboh]

Looking forward to Barry's comment!

[@goutham94]

Sir... The amount of effort you and your team take to make these videos are phenomenal. Thank you very much for that. Much appreciated. Love from India.

[@abbashaider9252]

No one is better than you as a left handed player i have learned a lot from you simply the best teacher ever huge respect from Pakistan

[@DavidSarafian-mr6ci]

Good scientific material,Barry. Of course you are right. Myself 35 years tenniscoach..done same experience. A tennisball got way more flexibilty than a snookerball..so for us it was clearly to prove a professionel tennisplayer hits a ball with way more "timing-quality" than others. Contact time way longer has been proved.with a harder material as a snookerball is harder to prove. Good Job ,Barry.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

@David. I have always said that when a cricket bat hits a cricket ball, a golf club hits a ball, a fist hits a chin, a racket hits a ball. a cue hits a ball, there will be a slightly longer contact between the two items when the timing is good. Granted that particularly with a snooker shot the contact is extremely minimal but nevertheless it is there.

[@theallseeingmaster]

I expected a longer hiatus. Welcome back, we missed you.

[@munkyusm]

I have been dying to see super slow mo footage analyzed by a pro like this! Thank you! Please do more! A suggestion I would have is that when you juxtapose two shots together like you have here, that you put them on top of each other. It keeps the eye from having to jump left to right to compare. Would be a bit easier to see the difference if we were watching both on top of each other, I think! Thanks again!

[@FISS007]

RESPECT ! I was wondering for ages how the hell a cue ball should be hit, now thanks to you i know exactly what i must reach and i know what i need to practice for. Thank you !

[@vishanthhariharan2973]

Superb video... I've been playing (as an amateur) with what you can call "decent players" with just 30+ breaks and the only thing they all emphasize is keep practicing and don't stop... forget the pot and get the technique right, then you'll slowly start potting more. I saw your earlier video on timing and you've been able to prove what you already knew! Again, many thanks for succinctly explaining a beautiful game.

[@vitalylomov4124]

This is a great addition to Dr Dave Billiards' video from 10yrs ago (search for "stroke speed and acceleration analysis") that analysed 3 different acceleration technique for pendulum stroke. There he mentions the "incredibly brief contact time of cue and cue ball". It always bugged me just how brief that was, because intuitively I felt the longer the better for control and maximum backspin. And this video finally answers that question. Thank you, Barry.

[@weekuah]

Absolutely. I've played cue sports and a big fan for many years and I understand immediately what you were talking about . It has also been a thing in my head for many years but until now I finally know what it is .

[@chrisparsons5733]

I’ve believed this as well, what a great video in helping to prove this theory. It’s almost the same as jabbing at the cue ball as opposed to following through smoothly. Firm but not tight grip+ straight cueing+ follow through = longer tip contact with the cue ball. I recommend your videos to everyone at my local club as I know personal your advice works perfectly! Thanks Barry for your time and expertise.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Chris. I hope the club members are as pleased as you are with the videos. Many thanks.

[@ZerkaS]

Thank you Barry for your insight, I'm pretty sure this is the first time someone could prove that longer contact theory, I've never thought of timing this way before. And as a player, when you do strike the ball with a good timing, it's quite a wonderful sensation because I think you can even feel it in how differently the cue vibrates in your hand than it would with a poorer shot.

[@syedalihasan1675]

Well done Barry. Really healpful in a way that I should feel when the shot is perfect. 😃 Big Thumbs-up! 👍

[@stanleyjan]

Thank you and your crew for this scientific approach on timing and feel of a shot. I always knew a soft tip would have longer contact due to compression and a good stroke equals a good contact. I was enlightened by the explanations and video computations. Good job to all involved.

[@Charlie_Crown]

This, in all probability, also explains why the type of tip used is ultra important, if it feels good, feels right, it's because the tip has just the right amount of absorption, and thus feel and timing are one and the same, perfect harmony. Again great content Barry, very interesting, relevant stuff 👌

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Charlie. You are right with your comments about the tip, Joe Davis always said that a tip should be firm but holding, I agree totally with that description.

[@tonymak9213]

Maybe the difference would be more noticeable if you looked at a stroke made by an ordinary player and then an experienced one, ie one who has no concept of timing and one who does. You are attempting to measure the difference between a good shot and a better shot, therefore the measurement should be small. Just a thought.

[@rickywong4054]

I agree, it will be a very strong prove of the timing concept if this is done.

[@hpe-eo4ce]

The problem is that an amateur doesn’t know the difference between a well timed shot and a poorly timed shot whereas an experienced player does. So there’s no way to know whether or not timing makes a difference in terms of cue ball control or potting ability when you have an amateur who can’t even hit the same spot on the cue ball every time consistently. An amateur introduces a whole new set of variables just by virtue of his/her own inconsistency that makes it even harder to isolate timing as a factor that improves a player’s game.

[@pjay3028]

@@hpe-eo4ce but I think you can safely assume that even a well timed shot by an amateur will actually be a lot less well timed than an average shot by a pro.

[@mitchlowbridge3979]

Welcome back Barry, really cool video, fantastic that you were able to use that phenomenal camera! Thanks for the insight!

[@musicbro8225]

This question has been in my mind for years and years! Thanks for delving into the subject beyond the surface cliche Barry, you are the man! Personally I am not convinced that longer contact between the cue tip and cue ball is the only defining characteristic of a well timed shot... 1. The cue acceleration through the required velocity for the desired outcome must coincide with the point of contact between the cue tip and the cue ball (seems more important to me). hit the ball too early in the stroke or accelerate the cue too late and the shot will be weak. hit the ball too late in the stroke or accelerate the cue too early and the shot will be weak. 2. The acceleration at that point of contact must be at it's maximum (Thus allowing the potential for a longer contact). I've also always wondered when using side a longer contact time is actually going deflect the cue ball more than if the contact is shorter. So I wonder if the better players get less deflection maybe they are in fact having a shorter cue tip/cue ball connection, thus less deflection.?.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Music. Some interesting points, more experiments needed.

[@domainadmin9905]

Great to have you back Barry. Timing is something I've noticed too. You have to stay on your rhythm otherwise you'll go off course. Nicely explained and once again, awesome to have you back. Welcome.

[@SirNoobs]

Barry, you are not crazy. When I mentally cue myself about keeping my cue tip longer on the cue ball, I can achieve better spin.

[@PestOnYT]

Very nice. Hope to see more. That shows that "going through the ball" doesn't push it all the time. It is more the change in stability of the queue when hitting it.

[@pondermatic]

Fascinating. Must be why I struggle with screw back, because I’m not contacting the cueball long enough to make it spin enough. I will try again with this in mind.

[@fielding68]

Amazing pictures, and certainly food for thought. Thank you.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

David. At the moment we seem to be having a little problem borrowing the camera again, but we are still hopeful that it will happen in the future.

[@d1g1taldan]

Barry, Cricket and snooker have always been "My games" and I agree with you 100%. My Cricket is far better than my snooker and in particular its batting that I'm drawing a comparison with. You just get that feeling that the contact point in time just feels longer and more satisfactory when you time the ball right. I play golf also (pretty badly) but again you just know that the point in time when the head makes contact and grips that ball longer you've timed it well and the shot no matter what sport is just right. Great video.

[@scambodia147]

Slightly off such subject,but in tennis it's the same,was taught to feel the ball on the strings for as long as possible,very nteresting,thanks Barry,great to have you back.

[@paulriggall8370]

What an absolute joy of a video. I could watch super slowmo snooker collisions 🎱 💥 all day long.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

paul. We were trying to show the difference in contact between a poorly struck shot and a well timed shot, glad you enjoyed the effort. It was also very good of professional player Michael Holt to give his time freely to help us demonstrate.

[@bcn1996]

Completely agree with your theory Barry. Even as a very average player you can definitely feel when you've timed the shot well, the sound and the feel of the vibration in your cueing hand tell you instantly whether you've timed well or not.

[@Superutubeking]

It’s true what you say contact is essential it’s a feeling you get from the ball. Same as in golf excellent ball contact through the ball gives excellent shot

[@ankitgadhvi]

Thank you Mr. stark for this insightful video. Timing is definitely the key to good action on the cue ball. That's why some player do not hit the cue ball as hard as others but still get a lot of action on the cue ball like Stephen Lee, Ali Carter, Ronnie, Shaun Murphy. and you definitely feel it if you time it well. For me as you say sound is a very good sense of knowing if you time well.

[@scottpryor7573]

Thank you Barry. You have confirmed my hunch too. Interesting to see cue flex too. Be great to see how cues (ash versus maple) react on your high speed setup. All the best from New Zealand

[@hossamalgewely1]

Mr. Stark, you are just wonderful. The videos are really great. Your advises represent a treasure of experience. Please make more videos, lots and lots of them. Cheers from Egypt.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Hossam. I will keep trying, glad you like them.

[@victors3803]

Barry, i believe you are absolutely correct with your way of thinking about timing! Cue and a tip - are a kind of spring, that stay in contact with a ball longer when they go with acceleration. When deaccelerated, the contact time is shorter. It is not hard to imagine. Instead of a hard leather tip you can put a peace of a soft rubber 1cm thick on a cue and try again. I think that will help to explain the effect. Closing of the grip, deadly center line (without sides) strike and paralell cue movement also should be shown. Otherwise the experiment will not be complete. Best regards from Moscow! Children say that your sign on their cues gives +20 points to the break!

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Lovely to meet those children, good luck to them all.

[@imleksutra933]

These videos are getting better and better.

[@heikofischer6961]

It´s incredible that all this tecnical effort and equipment is necessery, to actually show what Players can allready feel and hear. "Just" by playing the game consistently. :)

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Heiko. Great point, but as a coach I need to know why, and since this is a tutorial channel I wanted to pass the knowledge on.

[@alexpaic2984]

I’m sure timing is a thing but I feel with technology we tend lately to analyze a little to much. Yes it is very good to be technical to some degree but Ronnie or Stephen growing and playing I doubt they had hi tech cameras. They practiced long hours and like Barry said they just knew when they hit the ball right. Remember one time Stephen was interviewed one time and some chick was trying to get technical about the angles and physics behind the shot and I remember his answer:“ I have no clue how the physics works I know where I want the cue ball for my next shot and I just make it go there” it was priceless. I will never forget. Good player feel the ball the cue and the shoot. It just comes with hours of training and of course sometimes talent.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

alex. So very true, I agree we do try to analyse the life out of things sometimes. However, I am often asked about timing and I took it upon myself to try and find out. As I have said good players know how to achieve timing but I wanted to know what had happened once it had been achieved. The jury is still out.

[@rob-lk4ud]

Barry this is quite amazing. I am a senior researcher at University of Wisconsin-S and I would love to publish an article anout your findings, citing you and giving you credit for all this. Let me know if you would like me to work on an academic articl about this, I believe it would be a first in the scientific community which would be quite amazing

[@That_Malarkey]

robert lander this would be amazing!!

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

robert. Sounds very interesting, I would like to wait until we can get the camera back though because apparently we can go even slower.

[@rob-lk4ud]

Barry Stark Snooker Coach sounds great i look forward for the high quality data that you can produce with your team!

[@vbregier]

Great ! I hope you can talk in advance, in order to produce unbiased data during this experiment. This can be more tricky that it seems at first glance…

[@herrdoktorjohan]

I'm a bit envious of you now, robert lander... being a fellow researcher and snooker enthusiast (though by no means good at the game) this is something I would love delving into. If it's possible, it might be interesting to see if there are appreciable differences in timing between different players (like a fingerprint of sorts), and/or if unusual shot types, such as the "Shaun Murphy Special" (power screw along the entire length of the table), have a different cuetip-to-ball contact compared to more regular shots. Mr Stark and team, I'm looking forward to see what other footage you will be able to shoot, especially with the (even) higher speed camera.

[@samialbrahim9255]

شكرا جزيلا على ما تقدمه من تعليمات والجهود الواضح لتوصيل المعلومات 👍👏👏

[@gabrieldinizmello5481]

O conteúdo desse canal é realmente fantástico!! Não considerava esse elemento do jogo. Obrigado, Barry!

[@estranhokonsta]

Thank for your videos. I will just had that the concept of an instantaneous contact is a mathematical idea and it has no bearing with our material and complex reality. One interesting fact: in the slow motion samples, it seems that in the shots with a better rating, the follow-through of the cue has a speed more similar the the cue ball than the ones with a low rating. It reminds me of a pool instructor who said that the cue must always accelerate through the cue ball and not decelerate.

[@bobdylan6237]

Really interesting, I've watched a bit of high speed video in relation to spin/throw etc. but never seen anything about quality of contact. Thanks for making this novel contribution!

[@pablolopez584]

Awesome explanation Barry!! Really appreciate all the work you do

[@tastycorpse666]

Its a beautiful thing, most impressive videos, thanks for sharing.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Brian. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@BladeRunner-td8be]

Thank you, Barry. This was interesting to me. As I thought about this the idea came to me that each shot will have it's own best contact time. Harder shots shorter time and soft shots have a longer time. My hypothesis is that the contact time will always vary depending on what the shot requires. Maximizing the length of time for those individual shots is the key. And I could very well be incorrect about this. I have no finished watching this video so if you mentioned this my apologies. Cheers

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Harry. Timing is such an interesting subject, a player will know when he has hit the ball sweetly and I believe that the contact time will be very marginally increased but proving it is proving problematical without the use of a better high speed camera.

[@mustafahussain8432]

So happy to see your return.

[@alecspyrou2134]

Barry, our genius of the green baize (Ronnie) said it best. As you push your cue make sure you are accelerating all the way through the shot. Soft or gentle, accelerate. I believe it is this acceleration that produces the longer contact with the white. If you look at your slow motion footage it makes perfect sense. The white is escaping the tip if you push through slower that the initial momentum of the tip hitting the white. To stay in contact you have to stay at the speed of the white. This acceleration gives you fantastic follow through.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Alec. Certainly, as you say, acceleration is vital and plays a large part in producing good timing but I don't believe that is the whole picture, you also have to feel and enhance that contact and that for me is one element that places Ronnie above the rest.

[@alecspyrou2134]

@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach as usual, you hit the nail on the head Barry. Well said.

[@benvandeneynde7508]

Barry, I love you man! Keep making these awesome videos. I'm mostly interested in the technical aspects of the game. But make the videos as you see fit. Oh, 1 request: make a video on psychology for beginners and semi-amateurs, on state of mind and how to look on the game. How to handle dissapointment in performance. Would greatly appreciate that! Keep up the good work. Greatings from Belgium!

[@register1lalit]

Amazing video sir.. the amount of research and experience you out into these videos for betterment of game is inspiring. Great stuff !!

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Lalit. Glad you like the videos, many thanks.

[@gfsrow]

Agree completely. A good stroke (i.e., contact with the cue ball), can make all the difference. I would add, if I may, that a good stroke is a combination of "timing" along with "power" (i.e., how much strength or force is delivered in the stroke).

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

George. While some shots demand more power a lot of players do lose the timing element when they try to increase the power in a shot. It really is something that needs to be practised to develop the feel associated with a well timed shot.

[@Neo-lc9wu]

Whether you believe it's possible to maintain contact or not, you can tell just by watching that following through the ball is better. Watch a professional or any decent player play a screw shot, following through the ball, and compare that to an amateur stabbing at the ball, and the difference is night and day. I know from experience, and thanks to a lot of help from Barry, that getting through the ball makes a huge difference in your results.

[@Oldenglishmini]

What incredible footage !

[@changNoi1337]

I had the same thing in mind a week ago!! Thank you Barry!! You're awesome! By the way, I think it might not only be the time of hitting the ball longer, it's also about feeling the weight of the white.

[@BBBBD147]

Barry, I thought your first explain of timing was more than sufficient. However, this takes it to a level that I can't help but find absolutely fascinating. Look forward to the next one 👍

[@MrShamed69]

Brilliant. Very enjoyable. It's funny that the "sweet spot' exists in several sports: snooker, tennis, football, golf, etc. I'm not a great player but have played a lot in my youth and as you say it's timing and feel. When it feels right, I believe the acceleration through the ball is just right, compared to 'snatch' shots where the acceleration is too soon and therefore the contact time on the ball too quick. In these shots, there's plenty of power but not enough desired action on the ball and I believe that's because the sweet spot of just right amount of acceleration to get most out of ball is off. And, like the sports I mentioned, when everything comes together just right, you know, even people watching and listening can tell: the sweet spot of contact.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

David. Thanks for your comments and insight, I totally agree with what you say.

[@Earthau]

You are the best Barry, Thank you.

[@SMW82z]

It makes sense. Like if you are to stiff trying to get back spin, you will usually miscue. Let the stick make the contact, don't force it! I'll practice this tonight.

[@mostafahammadi7036]

Ur the best mr barry no one could dare to explain such a topic in this detailed way ur the best love u from Lebanon ❤️❤️

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Mostafa. Many thanks for the kind words, glad you like the video.

[@mostafahammadi7036]

@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach no need to thank me... This skill took my game to a new level

[@DonST22]

Knew i would like this video. but I have to say now - THAT WAS JUS EPIC! . .

[@abencze73]

Dear Barry, Good job! I am a Hungarian physicist and an amateur pool player. This experiment was really interesting and also what you have said about the sound made by the collision. Actually I have a suggestion: You can easily analyse the spectra of the sound using a microphone attached to a digitiser and see if there is any quantitative difference between the sound of a "good" shot and a "bad" one.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Attila. Good point I will ask Phil if these things are readily available.

[@diesvenja9623]

Very interesting analysis. It would be great to have another video with the camera. It would also be very interesting to see the stroke of different professional and amateur players to see how much contact times differ between them. Would also be interesting to see how much draw the white had after a certain stroke to see how contact times relate to what the white does on the table.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Die. Unfortunately the camera used was valued at almost £60,000, we were only allowed to borrow it for a short duration of time. We did however prove that the length of time of contact between cue tip and cue ball was slightly increased on a well timed shot.

[@shaynerism]

What might also be interesting regarding this is comparing two different players. I would imagine the speed with which each player pushes the cue through would also affect the contact time; do "better" players have more cue ball contact time? What is the contact time difference between, say, good follow through vs. stabbing at it. Very interesting indeed-Needs statistical correlation though to be significant, even for differences as small as this. You could even expand on this for different cue tip materials etc... Thanks for this, Barry and team!

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Shayne. You are right, comparisons would be interesting but the camera is an expensive piece of kit and only available at certain times and so is the expert who analyses the information, but I will bear in mind what you have said.

[@ohpotatoesandmolasses]

This is extremely cool and helpful. Thank you!

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Dan. My pleasure, glad it helps.

[@bucksniper65]

I have always been told that great timing was when you struck the cueball at the peak of acceleration of the stroke. If that is the case then it makes sense that the cue tip would compress just that slight amount more to let it stay in contact with the cueball for that millisecond.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

@bucksniper. At least someone is listening, it is almost beyond measuring but for sure the player will feel it.

[@jacobcaie8434]

Hi, this may have been already said but I think timing is keeping a consistent speed when you are in contact with the ball. If I’m in contact with the ball for 0.02 seconds for an example and in that time 0.012 seconds of that is a different speed compared to the other 0.008 it will effect the ball because it’s not consistent. This is my opinion wether it be wrong or right I don’t know.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Jacob. We have had a lot of discussions about timing and of course a lot of disagreements, the laws of physics say that the contact time cannot be prolonged yet something is happening that gives one player greater cue power than another, hopefully when we get the high speed camera back in the future we will be able to determine more factors.

[@jacobcaie8434]

Barry Stark Snooker Coach Thank you, I didn’t know that. Hopefully you get it back and everyone can get some great results and may be able to prove to other people.

[@chriswilson4343]

I've recently made a change to my own cue action...I've been really conscious to get my tip as close to the cue ball as possible when I'm feathering before I strike...my timing is so much sweeter now than before when I was a good inch away from the white ball (I'm now only millimetres away). So timing for me is knowing the moment the tip hits the cue ball in your head rather than just pushing the cue through straight and not knowing the exact moment the tip hits the white.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Chris. Certainly the distance the cue tip is away from the cue ball at the start can affect the timing of the shot.

[@gdasailor4634]

It is also impressive seeing the flexure of the cue stick. There must be a relationship between cue stiffness, both in compression and bending, and time-in-contact.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

GDA. Certainly that is what I am trying to find out.

[@captmcneil]

Awesome work, Barry

[@pousadacasaregina189]

Um dos melhores ,senao o melhor,conteudo de sinuca na net,pra aprendizado e dicas (Best Channel about snooker .Thanks Barry😍)

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Pousada. Many thanks, glad you like the channel.

[@Divionist]

It's like a lot of different sports. You can hit the ball or do the same move and get the same results over and over, but sometimes through that repetitiveness, you develop a sort of intuition or instinct that feels like you've really nailed that shot or move. The same thing can be said about Martial Arts. I don't know who said this quote but "I fear not the man who practices a thousand punches but the Man who practices a punch a thousand times". But, yea. Through practice, in anything in life really, not only sports. You develop your mind also, quite intrinsically I feel. It's an amazing and neat thing, our brains. It Might be tied to our abilities to adapt to things which could explain how we are able to notice slight variances in the subject we have accustomed ourselves to. Like two masters facing off against each other. Only those two are able to ascertain the slight nuances or very slight nuances of each other's actions. Instinct and Intuition developed through repetitiveness. These effects are even greater magnified if you have a passion for that particular thing. Edit: It's amazing this fact. The fact that there are so many other crafts and activities we are ignorant of, on the mental level. But there are some people out there who're able to perceive the deeper workings and feelings of it, like Professional and Experienced Snooker players. There could be other types of subjects or sports that we have a greater affinity to compared to others. That could be due to the fact that some mechanisms of that said sport have similar ties to the sport we have the greatest affinity to. The vastness of our ignorance is amazing. It makes you want to be a professional at every sport, study every subject, develop an intuition for sorts of things. That Intuition being that "moment of bliss" where your mind just clicks and you feel as though you're in the flow of things. I've experienced it many times and it's amazing. If there is a God, I'd assume He is able to perceive all these things.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Divionist. Wonderful explanation, I particularly like the quote, so very true.

[@cziffra1980]

Did you come back to this at all yet? I wrote a blog post in which I linked this film, in which I talk about how the same concepts as these apply to top level piano playing. My blog is called mechanically informed practical piano technique, if anyone is interested in the comparisons. One important question, for context- how long is the total length of each strike on average? If we just look at 200 microseconds it's hard to be sure how significant this is. Being able to see it as a percentage of the total contact time would be very interesting.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

cziffra. I share your enthusiasm in this matter, unfortunately at this moment we are unable to borrow this very expensive camera, we are dependent upon a third party, not always an ideal situation as you can appreciate but it is the best we can do.

[@cziffra1980]

@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach that's a shame. Do you have the data on roughly how long the standard contact time was- just to compare to what you said about the size of the difference on the best timed shots?

[@davidwilkinson6007]

Excellent video Barry. I've always believed this and that's why I seem to time the shot better with a soft tip. That does seem to fly in the face of the fact that so many pros seem to be using really hard tips nowadays, kamui's etc. If you do a follow up video with more slow motion shots it would be interesting to see a comparison between hard and soft tips. Interesting to note that Michael Holts tip looks like a Xiguan tip which are synthetic and play quite soft.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

David. Common sense tells us that a soft tip will compress more and therefore prolong contact time but on the down side will generally throw the cue ball off line more when using side that is why most good players prefer a firm, even hard tip. Michael uses an Elk Master tip at the moment and seems well satisfied with them.

[@algarvemike]

Fab video Barry. When Steve Davis coached his World Snooker Coaching Courses, he claimed that the cue tip was in contact with the cue ball for only approx 5-7 mm. it would be great to see evidence of this in relation to different rates of acceleration/deceleration through the cue ball. I really enjoyed this... Thank you The key to this I believe to be the amount of acceleration occurring whilst the tip is in contact with the cue ball. More acceleration, more cue ball reaction, then more efficiency and “timing” It would also be really useful to compare efficiency and striking of different cue woods. To compare Ash cues which are quite Whippy, and maple cues that are a lot more stiff. I notice from the video there is a lot of deflection with Michael holts ash cue, it will be interesting to find out if any of that deflection energy gets transferred into the cue ball using a different maple Cue.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Mike. Time we have the equipment is limited I am afraid, I too would like to experiment a little deeper, at least we have created a good discussion point.

[@hughgrant894]

Hi Barry. Have you produced an updated video on timing yet, using the new camera?

[@walterwhite279]

I find it interesting that there isn't more discussion about cue tip density and thickness, as the compression and rebound of the tip material seems to take up a large amount of the contact time. The pro in this video used feel, sound, and cue ball (re)action to determine how well he struck the ball. I think the tip of the cue should be discussed a great deal more when "feel" is such an important aspect of the subject, and when it clearly makes a significant impact in regards to contact time. As for defining the word "timing" in regards to striking whitey with the cue tip.... I have always considered timing to be which part of the stroke contact is made, for instance: before, during, or after acceleration. An accelerating cue tip should in theory stay in contact with the ball longer than a decelerating cue tip. And the same applies to the soft vs. hard tip comparison. Looking forward to future videos. Thank you for your efforts, Mr. Stark.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Walter. Nobody is more fussy than a pro when it comes to tips. Some like a hard tip, others a soft tip and still others somewhere in between. All are generally very particular when it comes to the depth of the tip, this comes mainly because the old tip has worn down so much that when a new one is put on there is a massive difference in depth and it takes some time for it to be bedded in. That is one reason that I tend to clamp tips before applying them, it can cut down the playing in time.

[@cziffra1980]

This is very interesting. I've written an article with a similar theory about acceleration of the keys in piano playing. I'm working around an idea of slightly prolonging the contact between the key and the hammer (by accelerating smoothly during first contact rather than sharply). I believe you can make a bigger sound with less impact noise (between the key and the keybed) and less perception of effort. This would be achieved by marginally increasing the time spent passing on acceleration (so the hammer doesn't lose contact with the key prematurely). These things definitely merit analysis.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

cziffra. I find it fascinating that skills involved in one field of activity often overlap into others.

[@cziffra1980]

@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach absolutely, its always interesting to find the links. I've often used an analogy of how all the serious snooker players cue through the ball on screw shots. When amateur pianists try to play quietly they tend to make sharp but stilted movements, not unlike stopping the cue at the ball. There's much more control over the hammer when you move slowly but deliberately, rather than abruptly with a deliberate stop.

[@phildoig6357]

Thanks for the video Barry did you ever do the follow up with the slow mo camera that you talked about doing I'd really be interested in seeing the results

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Phil. The camera we borrowed cost an awful lot of money, the owner is reluctant to allow its use again at the moment.

[@phildoig6357]

thanks for the response Barry, Thats a shame as I'm having trouble convincing some people that the cue tip stays in contact with the ball for even the briefest time. hopefully you will get access to the camera again & be able to prove conclusively. Thanks for your hard work.

[@MrDox90]

Amazing footage, I always love to see slow motion footage of snooker. Sadly there are only a handful of clips on the web. Please, if you can, try using a striped or a marked ball (sharpie a red or even better a yellow ball) as an object ball, so we can finally prove if there is significant or not ball to ball spin transfer. As many claim there is, and many swear it's impossible. I happened to believe there is, and it also depends on the quality of the balls themselves (the material and roughness). As my practice set of balls is cheap and I am very positive there is a significant enough amount of spin transfer to make me miss a pot if there is extreme english or spin applied. Maybe not so much, or even none on the tournament sets, but I could never afford that anyway. If you could do a comparison that would be even more amazing. Thank you!

[@CFCseventy]

Barry hope your ok mate been whatching michale as well he’s A great coach keeps it simple joe Davis said keep cue in contact with white as long as possible kieren is a great testemant to you hope your healthy x

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Chris. Thanks for the good wishes.

[@xingyuliu1276]

nice to see you again Barry.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Xingyu. Thanks for that.

[@littleguysbigbusiness6109]

i always find that if im cueing straight, as well as accelerating through the ball like a spring the white ball actually feels heavier on my cue

[@piano511]

Absolutely agree Andrew. Happened to me a couple of times exactly as you say, and got great action on the cue ball. Difficult to reproduce though!

[@SKELETON_FN]

Mind the little mic Barry 😂 On a serious note, this is a wonderful video. Thank you so much! Tonight Barry... I’m going to be Alex Higgins 😜

[@kachler67]

The more I think about the concept of timing, I have the impression it might be the feeling of acceleration right before and during the hit rather than the contact time. We’re in general very sensible to acceleration alterations and the perfect acceleration (of 0 right beforehand) means we achieved the right cue speed we set as a goal, thus the satisfying feeling of hitting it correctly. What’s your thought on this?

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

@kachler. I am pretty sure you are right but I will add that when the acceleration is correct at and through the ball then the contact time is momentarily increased.

[@Tickerman]

Great video Barry. Timing a shot well is similar to a perfect gear change in a sports car - you just feel it immediately.

[@devsaha4317]

Great Video Coach, and a great answer to rubbish talkers...😄

[@neillickfold]

Can you have a beginner or average player, doing similar or centre ball hit shots, so we can see what happens for most of us mortals when not hitting the cue ball correctly? Very good video and a lot of great information. Neil

[@stegee1]

you should use the spotted ball in all your videos barry, gives a better perspective of what is happening on the shot, keep up the great work, look forward to all your videos, cheers

[@ganmruk]

Super video...Love it!

[@alexae7891]

Thanks a lot for your videos! Thanks especially for this video! Tell me, did you measure the time of other billiard players? It would be interesting to know the result from experienced and beginner billiard players. Have you plotted the change in speed and acceleration of the cue when you hit the cue ball?

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Valentina. No I am afraid that we didn't have time to arrange for other players to be present, we were only allowed the special camera for a limited amount of time. Although with a well timed shot, the results confirmed that the cue tip is in contact with the cue ball longer, it can only be measured in micro- seconds. To do this we need to borrow/hire a slightly better camera, since these things cost an absolute fortune we have to be patient.

[@meentaalmaan]

Would that miscued power screw shot have been classed as a foul? Looks like it made contact twice. I wonder how many miscued shots players get away with not being classed as a foul shot.

[@sammcgrath8700]

This is actually a very interesting point. It seems likely to me that every time a miscue causes the cue ball to "jump" like this, that it is the result of a double hit. If that's the case, I believe the rules should be revised to classify miscues that result in the white jumping as a foul.

[@indyandherjones]

Why would you call a miscue a foul? There's really not much point to it, you're already punished enough by losing control of the cue ball, you can lose a frame because of a miscue. That seems punishment enough. Also, a slow-mo masse would look interesting - I remember hearing commentators talking about how you'd call some masse shots "push shots" but they simply can't be identified sometimes.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

My name. Without the benefit of the camera it would be very difficult to determine that the player has struck the ball twice during a miscue.

[@Tony-tx3vm]

Thank you Barry great job. I'm surprised the difference is so small. Would be interesting to know the cue tip speed at various points starting at the beginning of the stroke I'm sure this would vary greatly from player to player with the same end result of the cue ball. Ronnie appears to push / hang on too the ball to a much greater extent than any other, more obvious on slow & medium paced shots, so would guess his approach speed to be slower but accelerates at a greater extent through the ball. Unsure if there is technology that could measure cue speed from existing video rather than having to measure live. I hope that makes sense either way thanks for your videos.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Tony. At least the video has generated a lot of interest and got people talking.

[@nirmal209]

I hear this point lots of time coach with good players and also from ronnie o Sullivan.. Ronnie in her master class say you should maintain cue tip long as you can . Even i am also try from the month to implement this point in my cue action . This is really great video i hope you make more .. And coach i thinks you should try this shots with pressure grip and cue same speed and +hit white softly and with pushing make slow mo on that ronnie apply same method this i think..

[@misterocain]

Great pictures showing the science behind the game proving that the top boys have an in built computer. Sadly we had to wait until 9:45 before reaching a shot that is in my repertoire.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Sugar. They certainly can make those balls talk on occasions.

[@swampy6664]

Awesome video. Barry can't wait for the next. Any chance u could explain a kick using that camera???

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

See. Possible but would be very difficult to predict when a kick is going to happen.

[@NoosaHeads]

I'm not saying this isn't important but my instinct is that, at our amateur level, we couldn't change such "subtleties", nor could we even detect differences. Striving for perfection is honorable but the amateur player must maintain realistic expectations.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Ian. I totally agree, but it is a subject that has fascinated me and is a subject that I am often asked about.

[@monddia2764]

Why did the last shot miscue. Was it bad timing or the angle with which it was struck. To me the perfectly timed shot and the miscue shot looks to be hitting at the same spot in the cue ball. Maybe the miscue shot was a little lower then others. would love to know your thought on this Mr. Stark

[@23352408akash]

It was because he dug in too much into the shot where in the tip even went under the cue ball causing it to Jump

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

mond. Not really sure why Michael miscued, we really didn't talk about it, we just put it in for a bit of fun.

[@alpha1st908]

Very interesting I thought the tip was in contact with the ball a lot longer than that

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

Alpha. Contact time is very minimal indeed, in fact it is very difficult to measure but the player will certainly feel a well timed shot.

[@0faizi0]

wonderful video.. it defintely helped me and improved my game alot... keep up the good work sir i learnt alot from your channel

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

0faizi0. Great that the videos are helping.

[@Xaries82]

Nice video..i liked the music..you still look great,coach..Tq

[@juliengallot6193]

nice to see you again :)

[@batlin]

I wonder what causes the fractionally longer contact time. Perhaps in part, poor timing leads to a small deviation to the left or right of centre, causing the tip to strike the white with a smaller contact patch. This would decrease friction with the tip and cause it to slip to one side (bottom left or right, if playing a screw shot). Or perhaps poorly timed shots tend to be hit harder?

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

batlin. The question certainly gives food for thought.

[@MegaAndreyy]

Thank you sir, for the effort, great stuff!

[@hawkwind769]

I always have thought of it as finding the perfect balance in the amount of pop to slip on the ball... Pop off and no spin. Slip to much and it drags the white. Like spinning a top, except with a stick and leather, hitting a sphere (capable of all axial rotation).. Pretty neat thing to master.

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

oHAWKWINDo. Certainly very difficult to be consistent with the quality of the strike.

[@dwhite300]

@Barry Stark: It is very interesting that your preliminary results indicate that a player can sense a 2 microsecond difference in contact time. Has the data from your high speed camera study been made available publicly so others can get a feel for the results?

[@BarryStarkSnookerCoach]

dwhite. Although we have proved to our satisfaction that there is a difference in contact time, we are not 100% happy with our findings. We await the opportunity to borrow the high speed camera again.

[@dwhite300]

@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Thank you for the reply. Here's hoping you can get the camera again soon!