Bart Bellon: The biggest mistake in positive training

The biggest mistake people make in positive dog training ...

[@judas1616]

1 click - well done, you´re doing good, keep going. 2 clicks - reward

[@amerryamerry]

Rewarding randomly(clicking twice or more) can make the exercise more exciting for the dog. It's not fun to play the spinning wheel if you KNOW that you will win every time. The excitement lays in the randomness. So it can be done if the dog looses interest in the thing you try to teach it. Especially when you want it to repeat it.

[@dancinglab]

Mari H That is not how the clicker works. You use it only once to indicate that the dog did it correctly. It does not make the exercise more exciting. What makes it more exciting is making the reward different. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE FOOD. HE IS WRONG!You can throw a ball, let him run around, throw sticks, let him swim if he likes that, ANYTHING that the dog likes..

[@amerryamerry]

Read Karen Pryors book "Don't shoot the dog" it's all there. She's one of the biggest clicker-trainers there is.

[@ThinkOneMoreTime]

Videos of what?

[@TeslaNick2]

I'm not sure it's the biggest mistake, but I get your point. For some behaviors I make the reward an 'event' (for things like recall). The reinforcer is more like a surprise party for the dog.

[@mark-bz5lz]

Karen Pryor was a trainer at Sea Life park in Hawaii and used clicker training with whales and dolphins. She wasn't then or has ever been a dog trainer. Gary Wilkes worked with her to develop a clicker training system for dogs and he says Karen Pryor never trained a dog ever with clicker training, not even her own dog. If clicker training and purely positive methods all all that's necessary, why do dolphins and whales still regularly attack trainer's? If you haven't seen it, I recommend the documentary 'Blackfish'. Pryor's book 'Don't Shoot The Dog' despite the title isn't a book on dog training. The title and any inference to dog training in the later editions of the book are from the publisher who realised that people interest in dogs and dog training far outweighs that in whales and dolphins, not to mention much more lucrative.

[@TeslaNick2]

Blackfish is a great recommendation.

[@dieHundeNaddl]

what you write is not true. first of all the trainers work with whistles and not with clickers - the principle remains the same but if you argue then please do it correctly. secondly, the trainers were often not attacked because of clickers but because of posture conditions and unintentional training errors. look at the case of Dawn. she did not properly prepare her training and was out of fish, as well as Tilly did not hear the whistle (and she did not notice and reacted) and the animal then took revenge on her out of sheer frustration. I'm sorry for the trainer - very much so. she was a great trainer. but here, too, industry makes animals violent. an orca has never attacked a man in freedom. only in the zoo's illegal animal husbandry conditions. So please don't blame the methods alone - the attitude itself has a lot to do with it!

[@user-nc3uq2ue6i]

one cannot compare domesticated pets with wild animals whose needs can never be satisfied

[@oberdot]

@musicofnote1 (1) I'm sure Bellon will agree with that. Although he places a great importance in food because he argues food has a more primordial, existential meaning to dogs than playing tug, chasing a ball, or petting do. (2) Bellon uses a bridge markers. In the clip he talks quite a bit about marking a dog for "staying in behavior". From what I can figure out: for him, click is a bridge, the word "YEA" is a bridge. The sound "TSK" is the release.

[@Allen_V_Burnsworth]

It's always amazing to me how someone can watch 3 minutes of video and have completely figured out the 7 day training seminar and ALL of what Bart teaches. Self-important, blithering idiots. If you were more concerned with being the most effective and efficient dog trainer instead of protecting your ego you might actually be a decent dog trainer.

[@noadotoo]

Why are you double-clicking? Just curious... The usual click that most people use is one push-and-release, which makes one pair of "click-click!" sounds. You made 2 pairs...

[@musicofnote1]

Well, it's nice to see (again) how a compulsion trainer dosn't understand the different reinforcement schedules as used in Clicker Training. 1) Clicker Training doesn't depend on food. You can click and reinforce with play. Or simply doing what the dog wants 2) Clicker Training doesn't mean that a Clicker is the only marker signal. look up tertiary signals or intermediary bridges.

[@kumate45]

musicofnote1 interesting to hear someone who hasn’t achieved much put down a brilliant trainer....pump the brakes grasshopper and learn

[@OneGoodBite]

Mmusicofnote1 Well, I guess you have never seen Bart reinforcing dogs with play...

[@frechwieoskar8052]

He didnt state any of your accusations...

[@nilmarasales7698]

Can someone write what he says? I can understand everthing... :/

[@tapsarautanen]

I love to see how a dog dance guy of unknown record try to pick on every little thing he doesn't like to criticize one of the greatest KNPV trainer of all time. Why don't you instead look what he does, pick up what you like, toss what you don't and if eventually you produce results comparable with his results, then and only then, you give your opinions. It's just too easy to say no to prong collars, no e-collar, no double click, you don't know, you don't understand with no results to show...

[@saarlooswolfhund6237]

Especially YOU don't understand anything about dogs 🤭

[@FA37800]

Good idea....Jackpots and random quality, unpredictable type treats are important. However, perhaps the trainer does not realize (since English is not his native language) that his exclamations are offensive.....HOPEfully this is the case, and not that he is just a crass talker.....

[@georgetownsend3700]

I have never seen or of such BS in dog training in my life. he should train cts.

[@frechwieoskar8052]

@@georgetownsend3700 no offense: Why you think this is bullshit? It actually works fine so far, its just differenciated conditioning

[@oberdot]

@noadotoo I'm really not sure why Bellon double clicks. I don't think he does it everytime though. Maybe he was just in a double click kind of mood that day ...

[@strikeforcek9149]

He's using a single click as a bridge (announcing that the dog is doing right and "keep going, the reward is right around the corner") and the double click is the instant reward/release to get the food. 1 click = you're doing great, food is coming in a bit 2 clicks = you made it to the food, excellent! (break free and enjoy the reward). The single click let's the dog know it's going in the right direction, and the double click is the snapshot of what it did to get the reward/let's the dog know to go ahead and get it. The same as verbal bridge cues like "goood, gooood" as a bridge/endurance builder, and the final reward marker "yesss!" letting the dog know 'perfect, you can't get the reward now'.

[@OneGoodBite]

@@strikeforcek9149 Well explained!

[@musicofnote1]

3) Most Clicker Trainers fade out both the rewards as well as the clicker itself, once the dog has learned the behavior. Any marker (mechanical or vocal) can be used. This is how sequences and chains are built. 4) Um - you were clicking WRONG. Once will do. Why did you click twice? Always twice? I LOVE humor, but if you are going to use it, why not base it in reality, not in fiction?

[@SLAMBANGO]

some people never learn when to stfu and listen

[@jacquiehumphrey3701]

???

[@oberdot]

@FA37800 Bart is a crass talker! :-D

[@dancinglab]

PS He is messing with you. He knows how to use the clicker appropriately. However, he thinks his methods are better. Nothing is better than the the basic learning behavior from which all training methods are derived. Not a fan of Operant Conditioning (clicker training)? Why is that? Do you know how it works? really? Check out Bart's other videos. He knows how to use a clicker and does. Do you really know what method he uses? Hint: Its something that I like. The demonstration above is just to fool you.

[@ThinkOneMoreTime]

Have you been trained at any dog sports clubs at all? R+ is exploding in all dog sports. Even gun dog training (which used to be the worst). That's the reason dogs are faster, have more drive and higher precision than ever. Any modern dog trainer in the community knows this... But I take it you don't want to go out there and rather spew your crap in comments on the internet. So why don't you join some legit dog training forums online, where you can chat with top trainers and get some real info?

[@dieHundeNaddl]

Looney "Real info" is probably very subjective in this case too. Trainers all work differently and no one has to prove anything to anyone. I am a trainer and his method is only good for certain behaviors of the dog and for certain moments but not for normal training in submission. and it's not HIS method either ... it's and remains the result of scientists like Skinner and Thorndike! read and you will learn!

[@TeamTenderfoot]

The biggest problem I have with this training is he is willing to withhold food for three days to gain compliance. WOW! I have heard this way too many times from R+ trainers. It doesn't sound very 'positive' to me. Let me starve you so you will listen to me. No Bueno.

[@frechwieoskar8052]

Well, only R+ does not exist, because learning is made out of 4 sectors... R+ only is a nice marketing gag.

[@tenderfoottraining]

@@frechwieoskar8052 Agree - however the general public doesn't always get the memo and they are often shamed into a "never say no", only stay in one quadrant style.

[@fatassedpony]

thank gods for crass talker

[@DougHinVA]

he is not a comedian.

[@Fcasals1]

this man doesn't know how to train a dog without chok, prong or strangler collars!!!

[@dancinglab]

***** Having a champion doesn't mean anything if he uses force to get the dog to do something. Is the dog a champion for Breed or obedience? Being a champion by using prong collars, yanking on the dog, using shock collars for the mere purpose of getting a ribbon is sick and inhumane.

[@Fcasals1]

lool! I know how some of them are training to be champions!!! loool!!!

[@dancinglab]

I'm with you! For a really good laugh, check out the comment under mine that says what I am "talking about is not Operant Conditioning, it's clicker training"..,......... Please, please, please enjoy this moment with me! I have never read such a lack of education. Feel free to comment. I don't know if you clicker train. Feel free to contact me.

[@jawiggins10]

+dancinglab you're an idiot. they are tools and I'm certain his dogs would wipe the floor with any dog you bring to the table.

[@gsdsteve8825]

LOL! One of the greatest trainers in the world!!

[@HPRgirl]

Just shows that a (very) little knowledge is a dangerous thing. He doesn't really understand learning theory at all. Can't believe I actually wasted my time watching this

[@dancinglab]

Huh. A dog dance guy. I train the most effective, kind, and efficient method of dog training witho ut using nasty collars to hurt my dogs. I do not use any tools or leashes on my dog. Don't need to. My dogs begin by OFFERING me the behavior that I want. I merely reward him (with anything the dog likes- not necessarily food). With this method, any dog can be trained to do anything within his physical capability After the dog understands the method, behaviors are learned within 5 minutes.. That is how dogs are able to perform in sports like Agility and Freestyle. Look it up if you do not know what I am talking about. You are obviously NOT a trainer or you would understand what Operant Conditioning is. Its not about ego, its about undisputable science. OLD science. Stuff that you learn in high school. If you have to yank on a dog to get him to do something, you don't know real training. Google before you Grumble.

[@dieHundeNaddl]

Wonderful statement thanks!

[@OneGoodBite]

Dancinglab How comes you don't have a single video of your "most effective, kind and efficient dog training method" as you call it?