How Wild Can it Get? The Diversity of Early Christianity

[@oskeewootwoot]

I just want to mention how absolutely fortunate we are in this time, where we have the opportunity to watch a discussion between someone as highly educated as Megan and Dr Bart Ehrman, one of the foremost New Testament scholars...FOR FREE, IN THE COMFORT OF OUR OWN HOMES!! That's simply astounding! As much "wrong" there is with the world, this truly is something that's good.

[@BOb.T]

Am a Christian follower of Christ to obtain Holiness I will never confess Christianity is my faith?Christianity is not my faith a fake religion its a man made religion Christianity is not my faith !My faith is holiness YE BE HOLILY,

[@kihntagious]

Thank you for putting to great words my thoughts also. The best part of you tube I think

[@fretnesbutke3233]

It is awesome,but I confess feeling a lot of ambivalence about our brave new Digital Age. From malware,spam calls,phishing,scammers,AI.. sometimes I wonder if it's worth it. One good solar flare to fry all our satellites,and we'd be back to books and vinyl. If civilization survived,I'd be okay with that.

[@thecanaanite]

The future baby

[@pedroheberle6665]

It is.

[@ajmeyers5661]

I think Bart's comments on academic freedom are as engaging as his talk on different Christianities. I thoroughly enjoyed this

[@ksjazzguitaryt]

Bart's book, Lost Christianities is a treasure.

[@arthurmartinson4370]

I'm lazy. I bought the DVD lectures. 🙂

[@irfanalakbar]

I'm muslim from Indonesia, and I love to watch your lectures here.. It was very academic and enlighting about history of Christianity. Keep the good work..!

[@raymondjefferson2514]

I'm Muslim and in 2005 I got my first computer and went strate 2 the ytoub on the beginning of Christianity were Bart Ehrman appeared with very early info on Christianity, So I would watched my usuall speakers corner dawah team Hejab, Mansur, both Ali's, Ali Dawah, Sabbor, Dr. Naik, Sullimon, yuseph Estes, Norman Ali Khan, Hamza Yusuf, The Warner, One message foundation, Sheik Uthman, Merciful Servant, Hashim , The I'll check out more Bart Ehrman. Great info.

[@irfanalakbar]

@@raymondjefferson2514 Assalamualaikum, Good for you brother, that you finally find the truth. A stright path to heaven, the path that Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad and others prophet had step on it. Love to know brothers and sisters muslim all around the globe.. 👍🏻😇

[@skronked]

Sorry to hear...

[@JeannieSoko]

You should also watch lectures of Islam, many Islamic scholars should tell the truth to their audience in the many errors islam has, especially in your book, the Quran

[@JeannieSoko]

I think it's dippy for muslims to greet each other in Arabic since it is rarely that any Muslim has the native tongue of Arabic, and those whose native tongue is Arabic, they care less the way you greet each other because they know it's not based in religious guidance.

[@magicdog9523]

We used Dr. Ehrman's book "Lost Christianities" as part of a history course I took on the Early Church - Great stuff.

[@Dragumix]

@daniele.3361 What is the purpose of your comment? If you have evidence for your view, show it please.

[@shuttlemanjack]

​@@Dragumix can you please explain your comment?

[@Dragumix]

@@shuttlemanjack I was referring to a comment by daniele.3361 that doesn't exist anymore. Unfortunately I can't remember what she wrote.

[@sdeal709]

I'll check out that book, Lost Christianities. Thanks!

[@QuinnPrice]

Excellent insights. During my evangelical years, I was told that early believers were a type of apostle book club where they got together to discuss the gospels and Paul. Eye roll.

[@Dragumix]

@daniele.3361 Do you have evidence for your view?

[@timothymalone7067]

Thanks for the easy banter between you. Always amazed at the variety of Megan’s glasses and hair color! Keep up the brilliant work

[@michealcox7236]

My study into the Bible (as a historical text, after leaving evangelical Christianity) began as a way to defend myself from the constant proselytizing we enjoy here in the south, but I came to have a genuine interest and fascination with the early Christian world that I had been taught nothing about in my Church of Christ upbringing. Now I continue to learn despite the fact that the people in my life have long since stopped sending me bible verses, all thanks to the work of Dr. Ehrman.

[@Dragumix]

@daniele.3361 Please provide the evidence that supports your view.

[@jypsyjewels2854]

​​@@Dragumix wish I could know what Daniele said but they got deleted 😅

[@MarkJenssen]

Church of Christ background here as well and very similar reason That's why I want to continue with The city of the Bible and the evolution of Christianity

[@Venaloid]

39:17 - So basically, the Muslim student knew the picture would be shown, and then waited until the picture was shown before complaining, and didn't leave beforehand despite being given the option. That's not a victim, that's an opportunistic bully.

[@fukpoeslaw3613]

That university gave in to terrorism, basically. No matter how soft the terror was. It's a bloody shame.

[@fukpoeslaw3613]

@AmorMagico666 then Isa better stay were he is and don't do that second coming cause nowadays everybody's got a camera on their phones

[@Kyeudo]

@@AmorMagico666 This is one of the reasons why Islam is garbage.

[@kencreten7308]

@AmorMagico666 It's not "your" classroom.

[@jeffreylehman1159]

@AmorMagico666 You don’t get to “ allow” anything in a free society. If you can’t live in a country with secular laws, live in a country under Sharia, which sounds like a living hell to me.

[@Mike-jl1rl]

I discovered Bart on youtube 4-5 years ago and have enjoyed listening to his thoughtful discussions/lectures and debates. His comments on teaching and academic freedom at the end of this talk really hit home because of what I think about the topic based on my own experience and seeing what's going on in our country right now. My dad and brother were teachers and administrators and we talk about this subject a lot when we get together.

[@MichaelYoder1961]

Love to hear a plug for Digital Hammurabi - Megan and Josh are great! And love these talks with Bart! And I was appalled at the story of the teacher who was fired for showing a middle ages depiction of the prophet (clearly there was a time and a sect where that was okay). Bravo Bart for talking about this

[@whitepanties2751]

The Muslim student who complained about showing the picture of Mohammed in an art history class should not be living in a Western country, if our freedom of speech and enquiry (what is left of it) offends her.

[@davidwallace3871]

Thank you for making your knowledge available to all of us who cannot attend your college.

[@be1tube]

45:00 I bought "The Other Gospels" last week to create a Wikipedia citation, and it's been great! I heartily recommend it to anyone who enjoys early Christianity or ancient religious texts.

[@edpistemic]

Totally agree with Bart on how we have to pull back from the insanity of offence culture and re-embrace rationality and freedom of intellectual study.

[@bryanpang3811]

Thank you Bart and Megan for using your forum and speaking out for professor Erika López Prater.

[@Hilderik1]

Megan and Bart are always great to listen to Thank you two for the content

[@charlespflanze9651]

@daniele.3361 Wow! You sure are a one trick pony! Have you anything else to offer aside from writing "not correct"?

[@normative]

Here’s a question I’d be interested in hearing Dr. Ehrman dilate on at some point: He’s written much about how historians attempt to extrapolate from orthodox texts some of what the historical Jesus probably taught. Has the same strategy been applied to surviving “heretical” texts? Do some of them contain (perhaps quite different) material that is likely to be genuinely historical, even if (like the canonical texts) it’s buried under thick layers of revision and mythmaking?

[@Dragumix]

@daniele.3361 How do you know?

[@rogerscales2069]

You guys are the bomb! Thanks!

[@Roctrin]

Megan seems to be opening up a good bit over the episodes, injecting her own interests and training into this podcast via her questions. I'm only an amateur / enthusiast of early Christian history (I make my living in STEM). Megan seems to help bridge this gap for me--she's educated in ancient history, just not early Christian history. She asks insightful questions that push Dr. Ehrman farther than he goes in many of his talks, and helps me expand my personal studies into early Christianity in meaningful ways (e.g. 29:23).

[@aarondavis8943]

I LOVE this discussion. Looking forward to more! Subbed.

[@Chandransingham]

Very interesting and illuminating. Having already about this, this is a great refresher. Thanks for the J K Elliott's Apocryphal NT. My local library also has the 1924 M R James. God bless.

[@chloekuroi]

I've been listening to and enjoying these podcasts in random order, and this one is the first time I've seen Bart in such a silly goofy mood 🤣

[@gmwillow]

As an educator, I cannot agree more. Teachers need to be free to teach and educate properly, without fear that politics will get in the way. It is disheartening to see how education is being limited all over the place in so many ways.

[@lookingforonetruechristian7396]

Sorry...Welcome to America where freedom is defined as the freedom of the majority. If you go against the majority...you lose your freedom...job...etc.

[@michaelsommers2356]

I would add a caveat to that. It should be possible to require a teacher to teach what he or she was hired to teach. If you were hired to each mathematics, you should not be allowed to teach painting instead. If you were hired to teach evolution, you should not be allowed to teach the bible instead. And vice versa.

[@ajmeyers5661]

@@michaelsommers2356 - I think I see what you mean, but I also think that might be a slippery slope, Michael. Sometimes the best way of getting an idea across to a student is through avenues they might be more familiar with. What happens if you try to use elements of music theory to explain a maths concept? I think it would be wrong to fire the teacher on the grounds that "this is a maths lecture, not a music class".

[@michaelsommers2356]

@@ajmeyers5661 Using a musical example in a math class is one thing. Teaching a class on counterpoint when you're supposed to be teaching geometry is quite another.

[@ajmeyers5661]

@@michaelsommers2356 - I am glad you agree that using music theory to get across a point about maths is acceptable. However, someone dogmatically attached to what you said here--"If you were hired to each mathematics, you should not be allowed to teach painting instead"--might not be as amenable to reason as you are. A parent could just as easily argue "If you were hired to each mathematics, you should not be allowed to teach music instead". Then of of course we descend into "OK Mr and Mrs Smith, how much music theory am I allowed to use in my class to illustrate a point about maths?" That was my point; happy that you have clarified yours. Cheers!

[@armandomolina4331]

I’m a Christian and enjoy Ehrman’s scholarship not to refute the Bible but to look at it more contextually in understanding the Word.

[@theguyver4934]

Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )

[@armandomolina4331]

@@theguyver4934 God came as a divine man. His name is Jesus Christ. I will always believe.

[@CarlosTorres-cb5fb]

Excellent, thanks so much to both of you

[@truthseeker9400]

I love these. Great job as usual.

[@theguyver4934]

Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )

[@crede9427]

Audio has improved, thank you.

[@rhondah1587]

I read Phillip Jenkins’ book Jesus Wars. That book really outlines the conflicts in early xianity and it was very nasty and violent. Lots of people were murdered for their differences in the early years.

[@mojoman2001]

What is the meaning behind the spelling "xianity"?

[@rhondah1587]

@@mojoman2001 It's another way of spelling Christianity. The x is used routinely as an abbrevation.

[@mojoman2001]

@@rhondah1587 -- I'm not religious, but it seems disrespectful, misspelling names or making up nicknames. We wouldn't do that with our drill sergeant or other figures of authority and respect. Especially if a doctor saved my life, I would refer to him as "Doctor So-and-so" rather than the familiar "Doc".

[@rhondah1587]

@@mojoman2001 I didn't make it up and its use pre-dates even my birth 72 years ago. You certainly don't have to use that spelling or abbreviation if it doesn't suit your "feelings" but criticizing someone for using a very commonly used spelling is silly.

[@shamirfrancois6878]

Great show as always.

[@joools1953]

Fascinating as always. Thank you.

[@HelliarCOH]

This is awesome. Thanks Megan, thanks Bart.

[@bryancharlebois]

Prof Bart...these are wonderful shows I often listen all night thanks

[@123garin]

This is absolutely fascinating!

[@andrewmarkmusic]

Maybe 2000-years ago judaism was monotheist but earlier iterations were henotheism and still earlier polytheism.

[@jonathanwobesky9507]

Right. Asherah was the household goddess, queen of heaven, until the middle ages when they reinvented themselves again. Look to Egypt for monotheism.

[@andrewmarkmusic]

@@jonathanwobesky9507 Right...Hackedemia insists and inverts Kemetism saying it was polytheistic while Judaism was monotheistic, but in reality, I think the spirituality of Egypt was monotheism with attributes given to the one god while Judaism at its roots was polytheistic. EL being the gods of Canaan. See my blog Judaism is Egyptian Spirituality.

[@jonathanwobesky9507]

@@andrewmarkmusic a revolution of Aton the one replaced the working Pantheon. It has advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantage is that it disconnects the people from the local natural entities and their own natures and breeds an ego.

[@utah133]

My cultural religion Mormonism is henotheistic. They don't do Trinity and have claimed that everybody has the potential to become gods. Lately they're trying to backpedal on that, though. They get quite revisionist when something becomes controversial or begins to clash with modern culture.

[@andrewmarkmusic]

@@utah133 Thank the Freemasons for Mormonism and about another 33,000 sects of Christianity in modernity which all by coinky-dinky make Yahweh out to be the father of Christ (he isn’t)...That is THE lie of HIStory (the demiurge)...

[@Haufpunk]

Megan, it's awesome that you're always flying the flag for Mesopotamia. I struggle to even spell it!

[@dbarker7794]

"In Mesopotamia They laid down the law"

[@fileboy2002]

Something I’ve found to be true about all large organizations-corporations, religious organizations, universities-is that they don’t really want to resolve problems. Rather, they just want to make problems go away. To that end, people like adjuncts, who have no protection, are often thrown under the proverbial bus. This is why it is so critical adjunct faculty unionize.

[@sos1691]

Refreshing and liberating.

[@lostfan5054]

I'm a Digital Hammurabi patron :) They're great!!!

[@Hamann9631]

Thank you for acknowledging the objective fact that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism) is a christian sect. It was about 5 or 10 minutes into it when you pointed that out.

[@oldpossum57]

Yes. Certainly is a Christian sect. What I’ve learned about Smith, though, suggests that the CES letter should be required reading. Boy howdy! And I say that as a life long atheist.

[@matriputra2624]

@14:00 Dr Erhman skips over the fact that the "orthodox" church was essentially the Christian sect that took over the Roman Empire. It then used the power of that empire and its descendent kingdoms to suppress the other Christian sects, along with the older pagan religions, during the conversion of Europe (which was essentially by force, using state power). Which is why Christianity became unified in Europe and the near East, by the 5th Century CE. The orthodox church, of course, was the Catholic Church which split again into an Eastern Orthodox and western Roman Catholic church much later, and into Protestant forms even later. The early diversity of the church, the Gnostics, etc, was entirely suppressed, mainly by force. The current diversity in Christian sects is unconnected to the earlier diversity and follows from the East/West schism and the Protestant reformation.

[@gloriab357]

You made some excellent points about the reasonable fears of what is to come for universities, professors, and especially society at large if we allow the silencing of people who are offering knowledge and opinion. School and public libraries are now deeply concerned about the recent moves to get rid of controversial books. Some states are trying to prohibit the mention of anything other than heterosexual identity, out of the misunderstanding that this is going to corrupt the minds of young people. I'm thankful for the memorable teachers throughout my educational process who taught me to think critically, who provided controversial information, and who were willing to speak up publicly when something was going wrong one way or another. I don't think it's possible to overstate the seriousness of this issue. The free world stands because we have chosen to protect it over the years. We see the dictatorships and the countries such as Afghanistan where educational opportunity is withheld for some potential students at the order of the government. In Iowa we have a governor who just signed into law the authority for tax money to pay tuition for mostly religious private schools.

[@gorillaguerillaDK]

Yup, it’s really not hard to see what it is they wanna achieve when they copy aspects of countries such as Afghanistan!

[@deewesthill1213]

@@gorillaguerillaDK Marxists and their puppets are attacking our freedoms from the "liberal" side, and Muslims and their puppets from the "conservative". "Divide and conquer" works.

[@robmurray33]

Great content as always. I especially appreciate the efforts you've put into the production value. Love the upgraded cameras!

[@hayedsanchez12]

Thanks for posting before my work to home drive

[@Tmanaz480]

Just bought "Lost Christianities" looking forward to starting it.

[@giuseppemannino5204]

thank you dott Bart ehrman ✌️

[@thoughtsuponatime847]

I want more!

[@wendyleeconnelly2939]

Subscribe to his blog.

[@Sandra-mk7uo]

Bart, I appreciate all your work. The peril of attack on academic freedom is serious. Thank you.

[@joeyking3908]

At minute 9, Dr. Ehrman says Jews were the only monotheists. Doesn't that depend on what time period we are talking about? If I understand correctly, Jews were originally polytheists, and gradually came to accept that Yahweh was the only one.

[@neocount6397]

And even that's more recent. Historically, they were duelists. Angramanu vs Ahuramazda.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@neocount6397 before the invention of pistols?

[@MarcosElMalo2]

By the time that the Jewish Torah was compiled, perhaps.

[@Loser0365]

​@@MarcosElMalo2yeah by the time it was all compiled is how I took it

[@iamdog3540]

@@neocount6397what? Thats Zoroastrianism

[@adriandeutrom9092]

I have been listening to Bart for a long time and I find his wealth of knowledge fascinating. Ive listened to quite a lot of other links relating to Christianity and it appears overwhelming and perhaps LOST to hear different views of this topic, so I ask myself this question....DOES ONE NEED TO KNOW THE COMPLETE INS AND OUTS OF CHRISTIANITY TO BE CLOSER GOD?

[@علي-ش7ث8ب]

*if God exists then the true teaching must exist,ask God to show you the true religion that would make you closer to him. *

[@wendyleeconnelly2939]

Well.... Not if you're Jewish (for example)

[@DarthGylcolious]

My entire conception of Christianity as a youth was ahistorical evangelicalism indoctrination. Had my religion deigned to teach me the actual history of Christianity without the bias of their theology, I wouldn't have been a Christian, I would have been areligious. So, at least in my experience, if your goal is to be closer to the Christian God, ignorance is the best solution.

[@علي-ش7ث8ب]

@@DarthGylcolious *You believe in Jesus?*

[@ayrsine]

You helped me understand academically that Christianity is Santa Claus for adults and for that I will be always grateful. Dr. Dale B. Martin also does an AMAZING job at this.💪😎

[@Lerian_V]

And how do you know that his views are all correct?

[@DarthGylcolious]

@@Lerian_V Don't worry, you can still believe your iron age religion is the one and only truth. No one is stopping you.

[@scambammer6102]

@@Lerian_V Nobody thinks his views are all correct, including Bart. How simple minded of you.

[@Lerian_V]

@@DarthGylcolious Would you like to answer the question? How do you know that his views are all correct?

[@Lerian_V]

@@scambammer6102 How do you know which ones are correct or incorrect?

[@Babbajune]

Always so thought-provoking, Dr. Ehrman. Thank you!

[@charlesbrowne9590]

Tiberius Julius Alexander (Jr.) and Herod Marcus Agrippa (Jr.) were the founders of the Catechetical School of Alexandria in the 70s.

[@MiguelRamosLIve]

Where were the other students? Did they support the fired professor or the Muslim student and authorities or, even worse, are they just apathetic about the whole thing? I fully support Bart Ehrman's view on the importance and vulnerability of academic freedom.

[@juvenalsdad4175]

Mostly it seems to be fear of being tarred with the racist/ whatever-phobia brush that prevents them from speaking out.

[@manlike2323]

This is gold mine

[@charlesrae3793]

Recently I read Steven Saylor's book Dominus, and what struck me was how the ancient world found the concept of monotheism impssible to understand. Sure, worship one god as your personal deity ( like the Hindu ishta-devata idea) but as for believing that there only was ONE God, and all other" gods" were false, well, who could believe that???????

[@ThisTrainIsLost]

Therefore teach what you know, not what you only believe. Facts can be taught but faith cannot be.

[@Robert_L_Peters]

I appreciate what you said about what's happening in the universities.

[@Austria88586]

I just want to know where Bart got his eye frames.

[@davidlee8464]

Bart’s great and all, but I’m really here for Megan’s weekly hair color. (kidding!)

[@twakum]

As a lapsed catholic, a guy who married a Jew, I find this utterly fascinating and valuable. I have always found the Holy Week chronology to be mystifying. There’s a lot of us who watch your and other stuff. I really appreciate it Dr. Tabor

[@RealAmericanSicko]

Impressive. Very nice.

[@t5aylor]

Thank goodness she keeps asking Bart for an answer

[@MiCajaDelIdiota]

Regarding orthodoxies & heresies, how about a presentation on the conflict between Calvin & Servetus?

[@chrisgrayling7584]

Megan, I hope you're feeling better today.

[@whycantiremainanonymous8091]

3:25: To be pedantic for a moment, we don't *know* Sumerian is not related to any of these languages. For all we know, all languages may well be related to one another. The real point is that we don't have the evidence to establish any such connection with a sufficient degree of certainty.

[@luger45]

I’m muslim and I agree with Bart. I would have been offended at the pic too. However the professor has a right to teach what he/she wants. If you dont like it, then stay out the class. I dont know why some muslims be whining and crying over things like this. Its a shame! Nobody forcing them to take these classes or attend these universities

[@HessianHunter]

FYI that college in Minnesota is pronounced to rhyme with "shin", as if there was no "e" in the name.

[@clarkemorledge2398]

As an evangelical Christian, I fully agree with Bart Ehrman that it is completely wrong to fire a professor for showing a picture of Muhammed, after disclaimers were given by the professor that the picture might be offensive, and warning students ahead of time. For a public university, that does not require their instructors to sign a statement of faith, to do that is wrong. Free speech is sorely under attack today.

[@Kyeudo]

It's always under attack, because it must be defended on principle instead of practicality. You must defend the most vile of statements, those most opposed to everything you hold dear, when you'd much rather someone gag that person and toss them in a hole. The right and the left attack free speech in different ways using different means.

[@trentlytle7289]

I'd be interested to know your opinion on removing arts funding after Andre Serrano produced the work Immersion (piss Christ)

[@alaaaljarad3172]

@Clarke Morledge Let me ask you a question please; Do you also fully agree with Dr. Bart Ehrman on his below arguments that: 1. Bible is NOT Historically Reliable 2. Bible has been changed hundreds of times over the past 2000 years to suite Church Desires 3. Bible is MISQUOTING The Prophet of ALLAH Ta'ala Jesus Christ Son of Mary (May ALLAH's Peace and Blessings Upon Them Both) 4. The Prophet of ALLAH Ta'ala Jesus Christ Son of Mary (May ALLAH's Peace and Blessings Upon Them Both) NEVER CLAIMED DIETY, WAS NOT BORN OF A VIRGIN AND NEVER RESURRECTED...

[@kumailyar]

Hey Evangelical, u have any opinion - reply to the rest of the 2 questions ?? 🌻

[@kumailyar]

You cannot fully agree with Bart as an Evangalical Christian 🌻

[@tadmorrison]

That's key, really, the advent of the concept of an afterlife. Coupled with monotheism (and the strivings of the Roman Empire) one could only expect the theological tension that characterizes Christianity, even in the era of Paul and the Apostles. .

[@stephanediederich3024]

Hi Bart, you highlight in several videos that Christianity was an exclusive religion and that therefore statistically they had an advantage in converting pagans. How did Christians end up staying exclusive like the Jews of the period, while they were flexible on other topics, especially the respect of the Jewish law?

[@josephsgroi4474]

I’m so glad that I’m old enough to have gone to school when education was left to the educators. The books I read in junior high probably wouldn’t be allowed in High Schools.

[@celestialknight2339]

As a Muslim I’d just like to express my gratitude for these podcasts, and would also like to condemn the incident where the professor was fired for showing the art that she WARNED students about beforehand. Her expulsion was totally unjustified, and I shake my head in frustration at the student who took it to that level without any right. So pitiful, and also unIslamic.

[@deewesthill1213]

Since Islam forbids graphic artwork and also censors criticism of the religion, I would certainly not call the firing of the professor "un-Islamic".

[@celestialknight2339]

@@deewesthill1213 There is a huge difference between forbidding an action, and taking legal action to punish a person against that action-especially in a country that doesn’t even uphold those laws. Yet believe it or not, even in the Qur’an there is not a single place that calls for punishing those who blaspheme, make images, or do any sort of thing-at best it can be considered a purely personal & spiritual sin (not against society as a whole) which is why the Qur’an always says that such punishment is reserved for the afterlife, by the hands of God alone. This is the whole idea behind Judgement Day. The Qur’an is chalk full of instances and scenarios in which God’s prophets and divinely-inspired messengers were mocked, ridiculed, humiliated, and even cursed or threatened by their people-and not in a SINGLE one of those instances does the Qur’an call for earthly punishment, but on the contrary gives the following responses over and over again: - “You are not in charge of them” - “Your job is only to convey the message; the accountability is up to us” - “Do not be sad. God knows what they say and do” - “It is up to US (God) to take care of them in this life and the next” - “You are not their boss; just leave them to be” - “Let them continue and enjoy themselves; God will show them in the end” - “Just ignore them and be tolerant; God will be in charge of them” - “Leave Me to be alone with the one I created” And on, and on, and on. Anyone who reads these constant passages in the Quran would be shocked at the sheer disconnect between them and the behavior of some modern Muslims today-and rightfully so, since they are actively contradicting the Qur’an, which is always calling for a higher level of self-control, as well as freedom. So no-nothing about this situation was “Islamic” and I pity both the student who failed to follow the instructions, as well as the cowardly school who succumbed to the pressure and unjustly fired their own for no good reason.

[@susanmcdonald9088]

Thank you for taking on this cyclopean topic; what a herculean task! As I commented to the mythvision podcast, another evangelical christian turned atheist, I ask them WHY the obsession with the OT, finding all the absurdities, to prove their atheistic views, such an easy way out. Because without understanding the Greeks, there is no possibility of understanding Christianity! Even the very words we use for theological concepts are Greek, not Hebrew. For politics, democracy, drama, & free speech even coming from Greek comic plays that ribbed every politician right in their faces! Free speech! Or the "Bacchae", where Dionysus, god of theatre & revelry, frees himself from the chains of a king's prison, or the olive tree & its wood for oars & ships & the bed or covering himself, in the Odyssey. Or the role of Athena (Athens), virgin goddess, or Dionysus, the wine, and Demeter, the bread... Or the play, Trojan Women, where an only Son, is killed... The parallels are striking! The first myths of resurrection, at the mystery school of Elysius not far from Athens... Agricultural wheat thus bread, resurrection. Without Greek myth & culture, Hebrew myth is as nothing. So without ado, I present the most human of all the Greek gods, called the immortal guide to the underworld, the good shepherd, the god of "boundaries", still at work today! He's my guy, lol, as yet again these concepts still today, challenge & wreak havoc amongst us humans, to the point of idiocy such as the poor professor, fired, due to an ill equiped society dealing with eastern tyranny, yet again! Best to remember Greek pagans were a warring bunch, no doubt, but never over religion. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIqwmZZ7e9etqLc Biblical scholars are failing us! Because without the Greek influences, we can understand, nothing! And our best path forward, GREEK.

[@allanvrc725]

The scriptures are about purity of heart and mind. There is a method "The Way" to achieve this and once experienced everything is understood. The early Church participants were doing a practical course in purifying their minds and experiencing the Fullness Of God. The human heart is regarded as hard, as hard as stone, and there is a method to be much more gentle. A broken and contrite heart and a broken Spirit is what is aimed for. Jesus achieved this and the divine nature is the standard of entry into the Holy Place.

[@utah133]

This is why I stopped giving my cultural religion, Mormonism, any credence. They claim to have restored the original Christian church. My question: Which one? They're a bit fuzzy about when they think the church "fell into apostasy", But it seems they might think it's when the Romans adopted it. That was way after there were lots of sects all over. They're also gnostic to an extent .. Secret temple rituals where one is given tokens and signs in order to pass the angels who guard the path to heaven.

[@oldpossum57]

LDS seems to have borrowed heavily from whatever was to hand for Smith as he made it up He got elements from Masonry, and heavily plagiarized a very few books. I speak as an atheists: I think it is just a case study in religion manufacturing at speed, like QAnon, MAGA, etc

[@richardduerden9526]

And like the earliest Christians, early Mormonism included a crazy range of beliefs eventually forced into a bland authoritarian orthodoxy.

[@keitho8131]

JK Elliott's book is $60 for the kindle version. Is there a compromise?

[@dunk_law]

Wasn't this a response to the drive, starting with Cesar Augustus to reinstate state region. The "Cesar is Lord".

[@SadisticSenpai61]

That's kinda funny cuz when I was a fundie Baptist, I was taught (and believed) that anyone who was "born again" was a Christian. Whether or not they had the rest of their doctrines "correct" was a completely different matter. But the one thing that made someone a Christian was whether or not they asked Jesus to be their personal savior AKA got saved AKA were born again. Actually, my grandfather and his brother had a bet going over who was right about various doctrines and were looking forward to getting to heaven to settle the bet. Grandpa was a fundie Baptist (GARBC flavor) and his brother is a Presbyterian. Grandpa died in 1995 and last I heard my Great Uncle is still alive out in California (my parents aren't terribly good about communicating a lot of things about family members - I learned a month after he passed that my dad's brother-in-law died, for example).

[@tiburd7]

Interestingly, I am now seeing concerns about political or pseudo-political encroachment on academic freedom being sounded by both liberal and conservative sources. One can hope that this united front can stem the tide, at least among flagship campuses. Bizarre steps have often been taken by administrators of lesser institutions.

[@nikkio.9990]

Of course I don't agree with everything in Judaism but I have always admired that they don't try and convert people. they leave people alone.

[@dbarker7794]

"These pretzels are making me thirsty." That's one of my favorite Jesus misquotes. Anyway, good discussion. Thanks.

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

I'm so glad you pronounced it "skizzum". I'm subbed to Beyond the Walls, has he does a lot of historical and scriptural stuff, as a historian. Very good talks. But when he talks about the schism in the Church between East and West, he says "sizzum"! No idea why. I know "schedule" is "skedule" in America but can be "shedule" in Britain, but "shizzum sounds silly, and "sizzum" even worse! {:o:O:}

[@drpedsen]

When I grew up among a gaggle of blue-haired “proper” English teachers, “schism” was only and always pronounced “sizzum.” If you (Gd forbid) were to say it as “skizzum,” you would be laughed to scorn as an ignoramus and made to wear the metaphorical dunce cap. Now, of course, the times have changed, and most dictionaries include “skizzum” as an alternate (or even preferred) pronunciation. The Greek origin of the word being σχῐ́σμᾰ, the use of “skizzum” probably approaches more nearly to etymological correctness; what once was bothersome to my ear has now become less so.

[@ddavidjeremy]

I believe Shizzem is a D.C. Comics character. :)

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

@@drpedsen *_"When I grew up among a gaggle of blue-haired “proper” English teachers, “schism” was only and always pronounced “sizzum.”"_* Really!? I am British, and pretty old, but I've only ever heard one person say "sizzum"! {:o:O:}

[@trilithon108]

@drpedsen Megan has blue hair - so where does that leave us🤔

[@drpedsen]

@@trilithon108 No disrespect intended to Megan or to any other women of the present day whose hair is artfully colored in lovely blue. My beloved English teachers were mostly elderly ladies whose hair color was a product of the “blue rinses” that were marketed as a way to restore luster to gray or yellowish-white hair. Church pews were filled with rows of these sweet women. Whether this was a bygone trend or not, I can’t say.

[@marmadukescarlet7791]

Megan, mother of humanity.

[@kencreten7308]

Sumerian, etc... very interesting.

[@FRWHELAN]

This was the case with the formation of Judaism. We always hold this clear line of truth from the beginning, but it was camps fighting for centuries and one finally becomes the dominant force.

[@Airic]

#AriusWasRight ... i hope @BartEhrman speaks on the "Thalia" by Arius some day - in detail. The truth needs to be told, the typical understanding of the Nicene Creed of 325 AD is so wrong...Constantine died on his death bed as an Arian. Arianism is *NOT* Mormanism/JW's, etc.

[@DrustZapat]

Ok, so he mentions one of his books in this episode for lay people, but which of his books should I start with?

[@davidcope5736]

Hullo Bart. Would it be fair to say that the Proto -Orthodox Church came from the preaching of Paul? Their emphasises seem to be directly developed from what we find in Paul, with their belief in the lack of need to follow the Jewish law to attain salvation, and yet their insistence on continuity with the Jewish religion.

[@lauraslls21]

Jeremiah 29:12-13 12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

[@oldpossum57]

Who is “me”?

[@lauraslls21]

@@oldpossum57 Jeremiah 29,4 "This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says"...

[@oldpossum57]

@@lauraslls21 o sorry, don’t follow. There is a House of Lords in the British Parliament. But Israel is a different country all together. Maybe you mean Benjamin DISREALI? He was made Earl of Beaconsfield by Victoria , and served as PM while sitting as a Lord. He wrote novels. No one reads them.

[@lauraslls21]

@@oldpossum57 I quoted the Bible

[@oldpossum57]

@@lauraslls21 o, very good! I have heard of The Babble! There are many Babbles, which one? The Christians have several versions. Some Christians only accept the King James, even though he condemns them, which I do not understand! The Muslims have a Babble, called Quran. The Greeks have Hesiod The Hindus have Vedas and Upanishad.

[@Hamann9631]

42:20. There is no general book banning movement on the other side from those worried about offending. There is a pornography banning movement. That is a ban on pornography to youth, not a general pornography banning movement. There is a ban on sexualizing children movement.

[@NLaQ2]

Post an example of something that has been used in schools and should be banned in your estimation

[@Hamann9631]

@@NLaQ2 There has been full fledged pornography. There has been books encouraging children to eat poop and have anal sex.

[@stevebeeney9022]

I object to the term, "lay" person. I the only one?

[@arthurmartinson4370]

With respect to the dual nature doctrine, are Nestorians considered to be gnostic-lite (in some fashion)?

[@arthurmartinson4370]

@daniele.3361Thank you, muchly.

[@craigtimmons6907]

If I still had enough hair to style, I’d like to think that I’d be cool enough to style it as well as Megan

[@pedrolopez-torrestubbs7569]

I wonder what Dr. Ehrman thinks of Will Roscoe´s "Jesus and the Shamanic Tradition of Same Sex Love" where the author describes a particular paleochristian group which, according to Roscoe, had rituals involving same sex ....I was intrigued by this book..,

[@1122stardust]

I remember reading ghenna was a trash dump and Jesus always used that word meaning if you didn't repent Jerusalem will become an extension of the town trash dump. Not a spiritual place of torment. Can't believe Fundamentalists don't know this.

[@chrisdriver7776]

9:30 Bart mentions that the Jews did not try to convert people, but isn't that because they believed themselves to be the chosen people? Unlike Jews, Christians believed it was important to preach to/convert non-jews.... Maybe this came from Paul?

[@VenusLover17]

❤❤

[@kuhnemund6523]

Did any xtian groups carry elements of the ancient mysteries (that Cicero and others experienced)? I’ve read that some Gnostic wings were active Mystery cult participants for as long as they were allowed to be, until Theodosius.

[@scambammer6102]

they all did

[@allanvrc725]

Christian groups do not purify their minds and heart to experience the fullness of God. The body is to be presented as a living sacrifice during a fast where the mind is washed of all its impure thoughts.The even deeper consciousness that has people behaving in an uncharacteristic manner needs to be exposed and dealt with as well. The scriptures describe how it is done.

[@scambammer6102]

@@allanvrc725 sounds like bullshit

[@allanvrc725]

@@scambammer6102 I have experienced, experimented and tested and it does take some explanation but it is written in Ephesians and other books of scriptures reveal exactly how it is done.

[@scambammer6102]

@@allanvrc725 you just failed high school english

[@jjw56]

I wonder what is Barts idea of the Ethiopia? They are mentioned throughout the Bible and other religions, they are the oldest culture They have their Christian Bible which arguably the oldest. You talk about the ebonites and other groups, where do they stand with the Ethiopians?

[@carmensavu5122]

That guy Marcion was on to something. He half made Christianity make some kind of sense. It's a pity that the most insane and logically incoherent version was the one that took hold.

[@doclees11]

Such great stuff. Police state exactly! Which side will own the police chief is the question.