Smithsonian Part Two - Pagan Converts and the Power of God

[@KamranSher]

Dr. Bart D. Ehrman is a ''Class'' in his field. When ever there is a new video or audio from Dr. Ehrman it gives me the same pleasure and excitement when i received a gift or new toy in my childhood

[@reconstructionmanifest7349]

Bart I could listen to you all day. You would have a great career in podcasting if you so chose to do so

[@paradisecityX0]

As one who accepts that Jesus was who he said he was, l find Bart an impeccable scholar and communicator

[@myazleoful]

_Thank you Dr Bart Denton Ehrman I have long been expecting a knowledgeable an experts of the gospel honestly and courageously to step forward to expose the deceitfulness by the church through scriptures over centuries._

[@andybeans5790]

It's fascinating how Christian doctrine makes out that Jesus was a revolutionary preaching salvation through final judgement, yet such concepts were already circulating through mainstream jewish society.

[@michaelsommers2356]

Now that so many people have phones that can take video, one would expect that KZbin would be flooded with videos of miracles if miracles were real.

[@kaneinkansas]

I’m wondering why there were more photos of UFOs before there was widespread availability of cell phones with cameras.

[@historicalbiblicalresearch8440]

In fact it has more than once noted that sightings of Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster etc have also diminished.

[@subversion6066]

Technically, isn’t my iPhone a miracle itself? Or put another way, if god is all powerful can he make a rock so big that he himself can not move it?

[@Alexander_Rezner]

Maybe the lack of miracles is the sign for the end being very near. Perhaps it doesn't pay off anymore.

[@EaglesQuestions]

@@Alexander_Rezner Maybe. But there is one much simpler explanation for the coincidental timing...

[@subversion6066]

So we’re playing the BART EHRMAN DRINKING GAME! Every time he says a word we don’t know the meaning of we do a shot. We’re 1/2 way through this podcast amd imf preffty ffulded uppp.

[@johnyates5061]

love was Pauls force + justice it worked on Bart and myself even though truth was stronger in the end = NO human sacrifice only Anthropormorphism!

[@tedgrant2]

This reminds me of the sermon on the mount (or in the valley). The people at the back couldn't hear what Jesus was saying.

[@worthdoss8043]

Hog wash; Jesus had a sound system.

[@richardkranium2944]

There is videos of miracles. They’re just not what we would consider a miracle. What a miracle is has been greatly reduced to things that naturally would have happened anyways because everything is God’s will and all a miracle. I’ve actually heard that one.

[@darrelgustafson2507]

Amazing stories, from an amazing story teller. Reminds me of my grade 9 history teacher. He really made it come to life. Difference is , unlike grade 9 history I don't believe a word of it.

[@beaulah_califa9867]

Belief isn't required, right? His scholarship is fascinating and he is an amazing story teller. I particularly like listening to his Q&A's since sitting thru some of the Bart v. Evangelicals DEBATES is painful.

[@TheSymphonyOfScience]

Hold on to your bible then....Those stories are much more believable.....

[@UnimatrixOne]

Nothing to believe, just listen and accept the truth! Or make your own research!

[@humsterstories9736]

If one reads the acts of apostles, its obvious that the gentiles saul/paul is talking primarily about are the jews in dispersion, jewish diasporas, including half-jews who ceased to practise judaism in any form for any reason (e.g. 11:19-20, 13:42-43, 16:1-3, 21:21). Why? Because wherever he goes he stops at local synagogues (13:5, 14; 14:1; 16:13, 17:1-2, 10, 17; 18:4, 19; 19:8, 28:17) and preaches mostly on saturdays. Pagan sites are basically occasional, exceptions. Paul doesnt mind non-jews joining the church, but his main goal was, as it seems to me, to reunite the lost tribes of israel, viewed as pagan, just like the samaritans. The key idea was to rebuild the original israel, to combine the 12 tribes. As you note yourself, the jews were widely scattered across the empire and accounted for up to 15% of its total population, thus the broad geographical perspective. I am still puzzled how non-jews accepted a jewish to the core teaching and made it their own religion... greek names of first followers should not deceive us, those are ethnic jews bearing foreign names.

[@therock7233]

Since Jews believed that everybody who was taken to Heaven was divine. Did they believe that Elijah & Enoch were divine also? Jesus on Hell: Mark 9:43-48 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two hands and go into hell, into the unquenchable fire. If your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’ Matthew 13:40-42 As the weeds are collected and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness. And they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Jesus says He came from Heaven. John 6:32-33 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” So Jesus does talk about Heaven and Hell!

[@andybeans5790]

By the time John was written the mythology had been advanced considerably from that which Mark wrote. The incarnation Christology developed after the others, during the second century as Christianity spread amongst Greeks. During the first few decades after his supposed death it was thought Jesus was human-made-divine as other jewish theological figures, it was the later effects of Greek mythology which syncretised the concepts of gods impregnating virgins to beget divine children. Jesus was Hercules without the muscles.

[@andrewnye6088]

The hell mentioned in these passages is mistranslated from the jewish word Gehenna which was an annihilationist concept

[@dja613x]

Was Christianity a better religon?

[@yoananda9]

Better ? not necessarilly. Bigger ? certainly. Look after Peter Turchin Big Gods theory. I found it very convincing.

[@worthdoss8043]

@@rhondah1587 That wasn't nor is it Christianity or at least what Jesus taught. The leaders of the Roman Catholic church have been and more than likely always will be a bunch of jackasses .

[@occasionallygrumpy1066]

RhondaH you’re picking out specific examples not relevant to the group and claiming causation, e.g the Dark Ages, when there is no reason to expect it.

[@richardreddick5681]

Quest for truth??? Not likely. More just an answer without any evidence.

[@pierreparousia6993]

Bart doesn’t understand biblical eschatology but his lectures are fun to listen to....

[@jurajsimunic2507]

care to explain why you think so?

[@worthdoss8043]

Yes they are.

[@Heretical_Theology]

Which biblical eschatology are you referring to? John's? Paul's? Jesus'? Generally Jewish POV's? The various sects of Christianity at the time? He seems to understand all of them quite well. And since he was a former evangelical fundamentalist, I think he understands general modern day perspectives quite well too. The real question is do YOU understand eschatology outside of your own beliefs?

[@mattsmith1440]

@@Heretical_Theology I think it must be the idea that if you 'really' understood, you must necessarily be a Christian. I personally take the opposite view!

[@mariopantoja8259]

🙄

[@yaelfeldhendler6280]

The Mishna and the Talmud were too difficult, too much thinking about Justice and morality

[@Shermanbay]

Ehrman argues that Jesus, according to local custom, was left on the cross after death for scavengers. Not an unreasonable supposition, but discussing this is like arguing that unicorns put ketchup or mustard on their hot dogs. We don't know if Jesus ever existed or was ever crucified; all we have is tall tales, stories, i.e., writings, likely no more than pious fiction. As much as I admire Ehrman's scholarship, talking about persecution practices at this point is entirely fantasy, and not a scholarly endeavor. He is essentially arguing whether Harry Potter's glasses were round or square when all we have to go on is Rowling's books.

[@reconstructionmanifest7349]

This is not true. His biggest reason for believing Jesus existed can be boiled down to the fact that early Christians were calling a crucified man the Messiah. I will explain his argument best I can in case you didnt see it at some other point. The Messiah was a Jewish concept. It was supposed to be a "chosen one" that came and ushered in the kingdom of God and threw down the enemies of Isreal. To call a man that was publicly tortured to death the Messiah is almost surely not something that would Christians, who were Jews, would make up. It is an oxy moron to call a crucified man a Messiah. This is the strongest evidence for a real human Jesus actually existing. If they were going to make up a Messiah why would they make up it is a crucified man? This argument is similar to when you have a witness in court testifying contrary to their own best interests, it can likely be relied on as true testimony. Is it 100% reliable? No but its about probability

[@richardkranium2944]

Except Rowling had the art on her book covers done under her control, and Harry clearly has round glasses on the cover of books. I get your point though.

[@timothya.olmeda7299]

To determine, just when a sabbath is, weekly, the creator told us in the book of Genesis, that both the moon and the sun, would determine just what time of day or night, it is. This has not changed. Before Christianity came and allowed confusion to persist, the world relied on the lunar calendar. In scripture accounts, throughout the bible, the prophets of old, determined just when to travel, based on the timing of the sabbath. And relied on the creators clock for earth, to be determined, based on the quarterly moon cycles, that still pertain today. This also includes the new moon cycles and allows every single day of the week, to be eligible to be a sabbath, based on what month we are in, by skipping over a full complete day, from sunrise to sunset, each and every week. For instance, a full moon would be a complete quarter cycle, making it a sabbath. Just as a quarter moon also. And includes a new moon as well. This is how they used to keep track of when a sabbath was, before anyone had a clock or watch, and only used a sun dial, or their own eyes, by looking into the heavens. The sabbath, for this week, happens to fall on a Friday, for the entire month of April.

[@proudgrannyjoanfleming8860]

The lunar Calender works on the phases of the moon it uses the quarter phases. It's not a separate thing.

[@worthdoss8043]

So if we and or someone worships on the wrong day are we and or they going to hell?

[@piushalg8175]

Hey, it did not matter what people believed? Come on, clearly they had some sort of belief. Otherwise they would't have worshipped at all. Ehrman exaggerates things in a theatrical way which does not contribute to his credibility. Too much show.

[@MIAMIBOY61]

Bart is saying that if Pagans had certain beliefs, no one cared about it or condemned you about your beliefs, that's the point. And I think that was GREAT, don't you think so?

[@andybeans5790]

In polytheistic cultures Christians were simply another sect, it didn't matter _to other people_ what one person/family/group believed. Religious tolerance was a driving force behind classic Greek and Roman culture, it's the Abrahamic religions that demand religious obescience and intolerance.

[@clementjb]

The point is that ancient Mediterranean cultic practice had nothing to do with faith or belief as we understand it now. Piety consisted in performing the correct rituals and customs. It was thought the gods expected sacrifice, not some kind of interior conversion like Christianity or Islam require.

[@AbdulAllaH7]

The verse that began trinity and idolatry I have explained, and take my explanation, BEfore Hell Fire BEfalls on you, while you are heedless O! Christians. You changed the (WORD) (BE) with Jesus, and the result of that Christians BEcame idol worshippers. Deuteronomy 4:22 You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. In the beginning was the (WORD) i.e (BE), meaning the (WORD) (BE) GoD uses in the beginning of every creation. And the (WORD) i.e (BE) was with GoD, meaning (BE) is an attribute of GoD. And the (WORD) i.e (BE) was GoD, meaning every attribute of GoD is GoD. In Genesis 1:3 And God said, "Let there (BE) light," and there was light. Jesus was NOT the (WORD) (BE), but GoD created him with the (WORD) (BE). When they say Jesus proceeded from the father, it really means GoD said Jesus (Be) and Jesus became.

[@Doriesep6622]

Shutty.

[@someguyoverthere3275]

People are religious BECAUSE they posses an inate AWARENESS of GOD. We have eyes because there is something to see. We have ears because there is something to hear. We have a spiritual awareness because why?...and are we so "educated" that we must re-invent the wheel before every single conclusion? And just as some have sharper senses on one axis or another, we do not question whether there is actually anything to see just because not everyone has perfect vision. Tater-Head's list of reasons for why people "become" "religious" are so FAR off the mark as to be deemed superficial and unworthy of a scholar of any real depth. For Shame Bart, making your own crisis of fath a yoke for everyone else's children.