Paul and Jesus at Odds

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Were Jesus and Paul were on different pages when it came to the most important issue for them both, how a person can be saved? In this episode, Bart and Megan explore the Gospels and the letters of Paul to see where these two pivotal figures share many similar views and yet appear to stand completely at odds on the major question. If they did, then is Christianity the religion Jesus proclaimed or the religion Paul proclaimed about Jesus?
Megan asks Bart:
- Why is it important to consider the teachings of the apostle Paul?
- What role did Paul’s writings play in the formation of Christianity? What role do they play in modern Christianity?
- What are the most important messages in Jesus’ teachings?
- Does Paul teach the same thing in his writings?
- If someone asked Jesus what they had to do to be saved, what would he have answered?
- If the same question was asked of Paul, would he have given the same answer?
- Why do people struggle to see these as different responses?
- What are some of the ways that Christians have tried to make these different messages mean the same thing?
- Would Paul have viewed himself as changing Jesus’ message?
- Do you see any commonalities between what Paul and Jesus said?
- Are any of their instructions contradictory, or is it possible to do what they both say?
- If you had to pick a side between Jesus and Paul, who would you go with?

[@shahidmiah917]

In other words the real Jesus was a monotheistic Jew. And Paul literally invented Christianity and turned Jesus into a God. And yes the Muslims have been saying this for 1500 years.

[@crafe2305]

muslims also say that an illiterate shepard was given revelation by god in a cave telling him hes the chosen one and that he should have multiple wives and put his enemies to the swird.

[@nobodyatall7039]

The problem with the doctrine of atonement is that it implies that God is beholden to some kind of cosmic economic force that obligates him to receive a payment before he can forgive a debt. That suggests that God isn't all-powerful and didn't create everything, if there's this system above him that he has to obey like that. Otherwise he could just forgive us whenever he wants.

[@Zb-uo2bl]

Think of an example involving a Lawyer, and The Bar. Except Father God IS THE BAR, and OUR COUNSELOR! Now factor in the fact that this is ALMIGHTY GOD, and not a human (bribable, or inattentive, or forgetful, or slothful) lawyer. Care to revise your statement 😅

[@nobodyatall7039]

@@Zb-uo2bl That means God has absolute power to set any standard he wishes. Nothing can force him to require blood sacrifice.

[@Zb-uo2bl]

God has absolute power....wow, that is Too Overpowering for any discussion at all 😅 So why allow sin to start with.... No, to get back to a serious discussion, the Biblical History has to do with blood sacrifice for sin. The Same culture which Prophetically Foretold Jesus birth, manner of death, result of ressurection. Seems Very strong evidence for What Happened! Paul was from this culture, excelled in it. So suddenly, he started teaching his counter-story.....right!

[@Zb-uo2bl]

​@@nobodyatall7039and Don't loose sight of the Old Testament Sacrifices were temporary, The Son's Sacrifice was ONCE! Never again, for those who accepted it in repentance and believing Faith!

[@nobodyatall7039]

@@Zb-uo2bl If God "requires" anything at all, such as sacrifice, then he isn't omnipotent.

[@mglenn7092]

I would say that Paul is the founder of christianity in the same way that Ray Kroc is the founder of McDonald's. As in, Ray Kroc wasn't Dick or Mac McDonald and Paul wasn't Jesus - but Ray, and Paul, were the guys who popularized it, spread it all over the world, got all the franchises going.... Without Ray Kroc, McDonald's would still be a family-run single store in San Bernardino - Without Paul, christianity would be an obscure (and by now possibly extinct) Jewish cult that never made an impact on the world. (possibly slight exaggerations there but not by much.) And Ray, like Paul, made a lot of changes to the plan after he took over....

[@nathanaelsmith3553]

So the removal of obligation for gentiles to follow the Jewish law is powdered milkshake?

[@Isaac5123]

And you think Paul did a good job in spreading christianity do you ? Paul changed what Jesus taught and has deceived most

[@mglenn7092]

@@Isaac5123 Paul did a very good job in setting up Christianity for its rise to become the dominant religion under Constantine and later rulers and nations. What he did to the theology, the culture of early Christianity, his corruption of Jesus’s teachings - as others have put it, he took the religion of Jesus and transformed it into the religion about Jesus… he was effective at making it stick - every major branch of Christianity is Pauline and trinitarian now - I’m not making a judgement on whether that’s good or bad, except to note that it’s another strike against Christianity being a true religion since one self-proclaimed “apostle” was able to take it off the rails and completely change the whole faith like Paul apparently did. That is, unless you’re going to claim Paul had it right while Peter, James and the others in Jerusalem had gotten Jesus all wrong, in which case Paul’s takeover might have been part of god’s plan? If you believe, of course.

[@edgarsnake2857]

That was a great explanation about the Jesus vs. Paul question. Thanks, Bart. Thanks, Megan. I've never been a 'believer' but I've read the Bible cover to cover three times over the years. I've read most of the apocrypha. Despite the gigantic presence of Paul, is there really any question of who THE MAN is?? It's The Big J--Jesus. The contradictions between Jesus and Paul have have always bothered me. This discussion focused and crystallized the issues for me.

[@StephanieSoressi]

Is there any scholarships for Bart's courses for those who don't have a spare dime? Widows that don't have a mite? The disabled who can't work?

[@elhadioldache5310]

Pourquoi cette anachronisme Paul est venu après la "mort" de Jésus ?

[@hannahstraining7476]

As an English professor, I'm going to split hairs with Bart about who founded the Christian religion. He makes clear that Paul was not the originator of the theology of atonement. The earliest Christians came up with this explanation for why Jesus "had" to die. But "theology" is not the same thing as "religion." At its core, religion is an organized social institution based on a set of shared beliefs. Paul is the one who travelled all over the near east to found the first Christian churches, and he provided the governing rules and guidance for those churches (such as: it is ok for Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians to eat together.) So I do think it is appropriate to say that Paul founded the Christian Church. Is that the same as saying he funded the Christian religion? I would say yes, but it depends on whether you see religions as being a set of beliefs or you see it as an organized social institution.

[@John.Flower.Productions]

_Paul is the one who travelled all over the near east to found the first Christian churches……So I do think it is appropriate to say that Paul founded the Christian Church._ Your assertion that Paul _founded the first Christian churches_ is incorrect. Paul's own writings makes it hard to believe that he founded any church, much less _the Christian Church._

[@BlockyBookworm]

Paul was maybe *the* founder of Gentile Christianity as it has persevered to this day, and given that that's the vast majority of Christianity, I second this hair-splitting.

[@russellmiles2861]

oh spit hair about how many things Professor E get wrong about Biblical text in this podcast ...

[@stavroskarageorgis4804]

A system of beliefs *and associated practices relative to, well, human noumena set apart from other noumena and phenomena and 'forbidden', adherence to which defines the membership of a community, a Church.

[@John.Flower.Productions]

@@stavroskarageorgis4804 You have definitely confused church and religion. A group of people, gathered together for the purpose of worship; a church.

[@FaradayStanford-y4m]

Wilson Sharon Clark Elizabeth Clark Christopher

[@stussysinglet]

I tend to asume anything the gospel writers say Jesus said is only loosely based on what he actually said combined with lots of additions

[@evelynmoyer9069]

it's not like he had a videographer

[@SupremeScientist]

I'm not even convinced it's loosely based.

[@jessepelaez874]

@@SupremeScientisthow do you explain some Greek verses being obvious saying in Aramaic.

[@jessepelaez874]

@Deewood9996 if it was coincidence then why doesn’t it make sense in Greek? I’m talking about the saying which Jesus speaks about the son of man being Lord of the sabbath. Read up on this, you might learn something, Bart has spoken on this too.

[@SupremeScientist]

@@jessepelaez874 Just because they may have gotten certain things from Aramaic doesn't necessary mean they got them from Jesus.

[@jimmcculloch5825]

I will never turn you off. Keep talking.

[@SylviaBeck-l3y]

honestly, if anything, I'd like more food talk. maybe just lengthen the episode so that we still get the jesus stuff

[@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9]

Jesus actually taught Islam but after him ppl changed his message. Mathew 9.13 - God prefers mercy not sacrifice. Heb 9 (unknown author) a sacrifice is needed. Deut 12.31 - man sacrifice is pagan. Mark 8.12 - this generation gets no sign. Mathew 12 the later gospeI adds sign of jona... - more change. Mark 12.29 God is one. Numbers 23.19 - God is not a man. James 1.18 - God does not change. Any verse saying Jesus is God applies to others. Jon 10.30 father & I are 1. Jon 17.21 me and my disciples are one like God. So is God 1 or 15? Can't be 3 in 1 is consistent. Here is a verse overwritten. Luke 3.22 nrsvue footnotes said earlier manuscripts say h spirit says TODAY I BEGET THEE - as an aduIt so Jesus is human only.

[@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9]

Ehrman said to licona gospeI accounts are not reliable. Mark 15.40, mathew 27.55, luke 23.46 all say Jesus's crew were at a distance so likely didn't see. They all say Simon carried the cros. Jon says disciples were at foot of the cros but denies simon who many think was switched with Jesus carried it. This proves Quran 4.157 right, they didn't see a cruciFICTION but guess. As for resurrection. Mark 16.9 to 20 are added Mathew 28 & luke 24 disagree if final meeting is in galili or not. Jon 20 says go to other tribes but this contradicts disciples fighting pauI over going to other tribes & Iaw. Mathew 15.24 says I am only sent to my tribe. So Monotheism, no sacrifice needed, no cruciFICTION or resurrection but Iaw & tribal ministry just like Islam says is Jesus's original message in the 4 gospels. - James the leader after Jesus didn't say a word of paul's new Iawless cruciFICTION faith but faith then works like Islam says, he is a buffer between the real teachings and PauIy-theism. Mathew 21.38 to 43 says the cruciFICTION attempt will make his tribe lose the blessings to the fruitful aka Ismail in genesis 17, Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him is from that tribe.

[@davidkeller6156]

@@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9You’re spamming the same message is really annoying.

[@wilderness4071]

@@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9 The message of Jesus Christ is God is love. Jesus said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Laws and the Prophets. It is not Submission to the will of Allah, as dictated by Muhammed, who hates Jews and infidels. Most Muslim countries are ravaged by violence, genital mutilation, slavery, honor killings and child brides. This is not the will of God, but the will of that demon you call Allah.

[@PatrickPease]

6:45 the content begins

[@boylebuyurdugilgamis]

lol

[@AbdulHannanAbdulMatheen]

Thx

[@jessicaramer6630]

Thank you for this info. I appreciate it.

[@StingrayTomsFlorida]

Waiting for the day they chat about 'unimportant ' things for an elite hour just to annoy you. Lol

[@PatrickPease]

​​@@StingrayTomsFlorida who says it's annoying? And wouldn't you say it's kind of antisocial hope others would do something specifically to annoy another person?

[@louisnemzer6801]

Thomas Jefferson: "...I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence: and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being. I separate therefore the gold from the dross; restore to him the former, & leave the latter to the stupidity of some, and roguery of others of his disciples. of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus. these palpable interpolations and falsifications of his doctrines led me to try to sift them apart."

[@stavroskarageorgis4804]

His is the only rational approach to "Scripture" of any kind.

[@chrismartino3519]

@@stavroskarageorgis4804 Fuck Scripture

[@MarmaladeINFP]

Of course, Jefferson was likely talking about the passages from the Pauline Epistles that we now know didn't actually come from Paul.

[@ThetennisDr]

Thomas Jefferson was important or just another paid freemason actor

[@landrumkelly]

​@@MarmaladeINFP, do we know that?

[@jayguilloty6560]

You both are awesome thanks for putting this together. These are the right lever points to understand our culture and how some of us humans try and cope with our fear of life and death.

[@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9]

Jesus actually taught Islam but after him ppl changed his message. Mathew 9.13 - God prefers mercy not sacrifice. Heb 9 (unknown author) a sacrifice is needed. Deut 12.31 - man sacrifice is pagan. Mark 8.12 - this generation gets no sign. Mathew 12 the later gospeI adds sign of jona... - more change. Mark 12.29 God is one. Numbers 23.19 - God is not a man. James 1.18 - God does not change. Any verse saying Jesus is God applies to others. Jon 10.30 father & I are 1. Jon 17.21 me and my disciples are one like God. So is God 1 or 15? Can't be 3 in 1 is consistent. Here is a verse overwritten. Luke 3.22 nrsvue footnotes said earlier manuscripts say h spirit says TODAY I BEGET THEE - as an aduIt so Jesus is human only.

[@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9]

Ehrman said to licona gospeI accounts are not reliable. Mark 15.40, mathew 27.55, luke 23.46 all say Jesus's crew were at a distance so likely didn't see. They all say Simon carried the cros. Jon says disciples were at foot of the cros but denies simon who many think was switched with Jesus carried it. This proves Quran 4.157 right, they didn't see a cruciFICTION but guess. As for resurrection. Mark 16.9 to 20 are added Mathew 28 & luke 24 disagree if final meeting is in galili or not. Jon 20 says go to other tribes but this contradicts disciples fighting pauI over going to other tribes & Iaw. Mathew 15.24 says I am only sent to my tribe. So Monotheism, no sacrifice needed, no cruciFICTION or resurrection but Iaw & tribal ministry just like Islam says is Jesus's original message in the 4 gospels. - James the leader after Jesus didn't say a word of paul's new Iawless cruciFICTION faith but faith then works like Islam says, he is a buffer between the real teachings and PauIy-theism. Mathew 21.38 to 43 says the cruciFICTION attempt will make his tribe lose the blessings to the fruitful aka Ismail in genesis 17, Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him is from that tribe.

[@suprcrzy]

​@@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9I reported your account for terrorism FYI. 👍

[@gusduenasArt]

Actually I think Paul is the founder of the sect of Christianity that end up being known as Christianity after exterminating all of their competition.

[@stavroskarageorgis4804]

Sensible!

[@mickeydecurious]

I believe you're correct about that, because Christianity has its roots in the RCC and John the Baptizer.

[@gusduenasArt]

@@mickeydecurious also the roots of Pauline thinking could be traced to merkava mysticism and some dualism...because the fight between the flesh and the spirit is totally dualist. But also Pauline doctrine is rooted in apocalyptic Judaism of that time, as well as Jesus, but with a different application. But being fair with Paul, we don't know how much is actual Pauline thinking versus preconceived ideas that comes from the translators or escribes of those letters, at least the ones he actually did.

[@mickeydecurious]

@@gusduenasArt It's hard for me to be fair with Paul and allegend letters; considering those letters have borne justification for centuries of subjecting Women, Children, and "others" too bigotry, misogyny, hatred, violence, and control first by the RCC, then the Puritan Fundamentalist, now there's the EvilAngelcals who wants Their chance at Christian History. Uhh..🤔 Don't do as the Temple priest does 👀 Jesus was right about that 😊

[@MarmaladeINFP]

How can Paul be at odds since we know nothing else about the first Christians other than from his firstand accounts? All the Gospels were written much later.

[@jakewolfe2380]

Many old testament scriptures that refer to christ, Paul refers them to himself.

[@billyoumans1784]

In his introduction to Androcles and the Lion, Shaw says Paul made Christianity into as salvation religion (of which he says there were many) - whereas Jesus was talking about love- Bhakti- love of God, forgiving the debts of others, loving your enemy, seeing God in everyone, especially the least among us, and giving up our attachment to the rewards of the world in order to gain the kingdom of heaven.

[@tomgoff7887]

That doesn't really gel with those passages that weren't edited out of the bible such as “I came not to bring peace, but a sword” and sell your cloak and buy a sword. These suggest that Jesus believed himself destined to lead the forces of the kingdom of god against the Romans. That is consistent with the Romans crucifying him (for sedition presumably). There would have been no reason to execute him if his message had all been about love and forgiveness.

[@jerrycratsenberg989]

I find every episode interesting and engaging. I am not a believer, but have read the Bible through a couple of times trying to make sense of it and I have fortunately failed miserably. Neither my wife of 58 years or I were raised in church going Christian families and your broadcasts prove over and over that we have been very fortunate.

[@Bronco541]

As a person raised as a beleiver I can confirm, you are very fortunate.

[@ThetennisDr]

Jesus is God. Bible is not 🚫

[@Tchalla_supreme_]

The Quran clears up at all the fabrications and misquotes added to the original Bible, read the chapter called Maryam(Mary) it explains in details. Read further if you want to decode the Bible

[@timandmonica]

@@Tchalla_supreme_ But doesn't someone need to then decode the Quran?

[@Tchalla_supreme_]

@@timandmonica the prophet Mohamed(pbuh) is the seal of the prophets starting with Adam, Noah, Moses, Jesus -Et. If u read the Quran it talks about all these prophets and the messages they brought . The Quran confirms the original messages that those prophets brought and denies the additions/corruptions added by men throughout time. The Quran as the final revelation from the God of Abraham is for all mankind not for a specific ppl like the Bible or Torah which were both sent only to the children of Israel. As the last revelation it has no errors or contradictions and therefore does not need to be decoded as it is the perfect word of God. I leave you with the greetings of all the prophets. "Shalom alekhum” peace be unto you .

[@tommyschmierer4627]

@onejohn2,26 ...Lol 😂😂😂 ... I'm sorry for laughing but, 😱 omg ... I think God is a lot more tolerant, loving and understanding than many folks would have a person believe ... Humans seem to love to put restrictions on God and to try to put God in a box ... Something to think about I believe... Lets let God be God and just try to live our lives with loving-kindness ... Like Jesus told us ... That's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth ...lol God Bless 🙏💯...

[@luigitrotti6023]

I m an australian italian living in italy ...and i would always take picalillies from.england and branston pickles..and various chutneys ....and whereever i can i ll have a meat pie before leaving britain or australia

[@davidhinkley]

I grew up with steak and kidney pies every week but as Americanism takes over in Canada they have become impossible to find. I need to travel. My Nan made the various chutneys from her garden. I miss her and them.

[@pansepot1490]

@@davidhinkley you need to learn to cook so you can have kidney pie every time you want. 😊

[@azizwin2319]

Paul said God is 3 in one. But Jesus (ph) said God is one...

[@thesavior6291]

But Jesus didn't produce suicide bombers.

[@telvinphiri1620]

Suicide is a sin in the suggesred religion

[@telvinphiri1620]

​@@thesavior6291 if Jesus is one with God as u claim and if Jesus was the same in the old testament then he may have taught something worse than suicide bombing... Killing of children. After all Jesus is 'one with God' so the old testament atrocities are just as much his.

[@glennalphonse9711]

Hello Scholars. Paul taught what he believes is true not what Jesus was really about. Example, According to the Bible, Jesus said I have not come for the Righteous but for the Sinner, Why, so they will come to Repentance. You're responsible for your own Salvation so he taught them the WAY.😮 Not to die for your sins.👍. But we should know by now these are just stories of encouragement nothing else. No one has Ever seen God or Heard God's voice.😮

[@davecarew1116]

Superb, illuminating discussion. THANK YOU SO MUCH, Megan and Bart!

[@TruthIsABitterPillToSwallow]

The religious historian and philosopher Han-Joachim Schoeps says: “Here is a paradox of world-historical proportions: Jewish Christianity indeed disappeared within the Christian church, but was PRESERVED in Islam.” (Caps mine) Would you like to reason on the subject?

[@gadzair7144]

This is fantastic. The conceptualization of Jesus articulated here is identical to the Islamic understanding of Jesus and God. Jesus preached that we must seek repentance for our sins from God. God is truly Merciful: He did not need the blood of anyone for Him to forgive us, truly forgive us as if we never did that sin in the first place. It's very unfortunate the hold Paul has had on the beautiful religion of true Christianity. And btw, the Kingdom of God is going to come. And it will be lead by Jesus himself when he returns. And all Muslims intend to follow him when he does.

[@annettecloutier2094]

You can’t tell the differences between Jesus and Paul because we don’t have the teachings of Jesus. The 4Gospels were written 10-20 years after Paul, largely to add & correct what Paul had to profess about Jesus.

[@annettecloutier2094]

You can’t “obey” God when being preached to. I think the real Jesus knew that and didn’t preach. That’s why we don’t have his ipsissima verba.

[@offgrid405]

@annettecloutier2094 So I guess we should ignore Paul's doubtful teachings completely. Paul wasted a lot of of time writing all that stuff. Stick to the Gospels guys. They are completely reliable.

[@dannyhuskerjay]

Ehhhh the gospel of Matthew is very Jewish Christian in nature and has the same exact wording as the didache, Luke , Thomas etc which leads to a mysterious Q. Which is good evidence that the living Jesus did in fact preach of a love message. Forgiveness, kindness, gentleness and him as king of a utopia where the dead were raised to be with us again . But of course Pagan Greco Roman world and political greedy Pharisees couldn’t dare have their power taken away. . You still see it today. Peaceful people who have United are normally killed by the powerful. In fear of a revolution. So the Roman’s and Pharisees knew they were unpopular (Josephus confirms this) this popular preacher from the country was uniting the country folk and even some Judeans tired of the Pharisees were getting behind him as well. The gospels said they feared the people (both rome and Pharisees) I’m thinking rome didn’t fear the people and felt forced to crucify Jesus. They feared the people because jesus was really popular and sooner or later he’d have the numbers if he wanted he could maybe start a true revolution especially with his talk of God soon coming to help him with an army.

[@Isaac5123]

​@@offgrid405 I agree not to listen to Paul but to say the gospels are reliable is a joke. Let me know when you discover all the contradictions in the gospels. It will take you a while. It looks like from yr statement that you have not read the gospels

[@offgrid405]

@@Isaac5123 Did you not detect the sarcasm?

[@zdzislawmeglicki2262]

Yes, about curry being quintessentially British food. Do you remember Peter Ustinov's film "Stiff Upper Lips." When the company gets upset by brawling, oversexed Italians, Emily's aunt suggests "Let's go somewhere more British… India!"

[@DrVictorVasconcelos]

Right? 😂 It's British as in "British Raj".

[@carlsoc1]

I really enjoyed the discussion about foods 😘. I was raised an atheist (and still am) and have read the Bible several times and find it confusing and enjoy this channel's information.

[@johndenugent4185]

Atheist ... The problem with that is many people who are not crazy have inexplicable experiences. :-)😊

[@EliezerCampos77s]

Lately I’ve been watching everything Dr. Ehrman in YT. One topic I haven’t found anything yet from Dr Ehrman, and therefore I’d like to kindly suggest this topic for an upcoming episode: what are the possible methods for dating the Gospels, which one Dr Ehrman prefers, and why. I think it’s an interesting topic because many arguments from Dr Ehrman start with the approximate date of when the gospels were written, but for laymen like me, that is not so obvious. If that subject has already been tackled by Dr Ehrman, either on YT or anywhere else, please point me in the right direction. Much appreciated!

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

It has already been covered, but I can’t remember precisely where. It’s possible, considering that Ehrman is now monetizing his lectures, that it has been removed from KZbin, which would explain why you can’t find it.

[@I-am-Hrut]

He talks about it all the time... paleographic and radiocarbon analysis on manuscripts can helps us date these later copies. Our oldest manuscript is a tiny fragment of a single page of the Gospel of John from the mid-2nd century. But we get our first full manuscripts of all four gospels by at least 200 CE. To date the gospels back to the 1st century, I recommend searching google for a post on his blog called "When Were the Gospels Written? Digging Deeper for Context".

[@Emily-2502]

Thankyou for this episode! 08:58 I would really be interested in the authorship of Paul’s letters. Especially an explanation of the scholarly method to decide authorship. Is it mainly based on literary and theological differences? Is it the evidence which letters were know by the early church? Are there alternative explanations for these differences?

[@MudasarAhmed-nz9nl]

Yes we want a full episode for letters of Paul and why some are wrongfully assigned to him

[@UnimatrixOne]

👍

[@glennalphonse9711]

The reason Jesus sacrificed his life.John 11 to save the Jews from getting destroyed by the Roman Army. To save Gods. Chosen People Jesus said no One can take my life i lay it down and i can pick it up. That was Jesus sacrifices for his Father.🤔 It's time to dump that Jesus died for sins that was a concept of men. Like Paul.

[@davidlewis3072]

"the religion of Jesus is forgiveness. the religion about Jesus is atonement..." Profound

[@vusimngomezulu2500]

Which church are preaching the gospel of the kingdom around the world to all nations as Jesus Christ said? Matthew 10:16, 24:14, 28:19-20, Mark 13:10..

[@davidlewis3072]

@@vusimngomezulu2500 any Christian church

[@patriciawyatt5073]

9th​@@vusimngomezulu2500

[@justsendmelocation313]

The religion of Jesus is ISLAM

[@lulubelle0bresil]

🤭I was looking at the KZbin start page and I read too quickly "Paul and Jesus ate dogs" and I thought to myself "these disinformation channels have gone too far" before realizing it was you and the title was actually "Paul and Jesus at Odds"

[@johnnehrich9601]

A good demonstration of how truth can become legend. Although in this case, I think the word "hot" was missing. jk

[@ponderingspirit]

Religion of Jesus is forgiveness Religion about jesus is atonement

[@mercop1472]

Hm

[@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543]

Jesus actually taught Islam but after him ppl changed his message. Mathew 9.13 - God prefers mercy not sacrifice. Heb 9 (unknown author) a sacrifice is needed. Deut 12.31 - man sacrifice is pagan. Mark 8.12 - this generation gets no sign. Mathew 12 the later gospeI adds sign of jona... - more change. Mark 12.29 God is one. Numbers 23.19 - God is not a man. James 1.18 - God does not change. Any verse saying Jesus is God applies to others. Jon 10.30 father & I are 1. Jon 17.21 me and my disciples are one like God. So is God 1 or 15? Can't be 3 in 1 is consistent. Here is a verse overwritten. Luke 3.22 nrsvue footnotes said earlier manuscripts say h spirit says TODAY I BEGET THEE - as an aduIt so Jesus is human only.

[@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543]

Ehrman said to licona gospeI accounts are not reliable. Mark 15.40, mathew 27.55, luke 23.46 all say Jesus's crew were at a distance so likely didn't see. They all say Simon carried the cros. Jon says disciples were at foot of the cros but denies simon who many think was switched with Jesus carried it. This proves Quran 4.157 right, they didn't see a cruciFICTION but guess. As for resurrection. Mark 16.9 to 20 are added Mathew 28 & luke 24 disagree if final meeting is in galili or not. Jon 20 says go to other tribes but this contradicts disciples fighting pauI over going to other tribes & Iaw. Mathew 15.24 says I am only sent to my tribe. So Monotheism, no sacrifice needed, no cruciFICTION or resurrection but Iaw & tribal ministry just like Islam says is Jesus's original message in the 4 gospels. - James the leader after Jesus didn't say a word of paul's new Iawless cruciFICTION faith but faith then works like Islam says, he is a buffer between the real teachings and PauIy-theism. Mathew 21.38 to 43 says the cruciFICTION attempt will make his tribe lose the blessings to the fruitful aka Ismail in genesis 17, Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him is from that tribe.

[@edward1412]

Mark 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Matthew 26:28 “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”

[@thorpeaaron1110]

You summed it up perfectly.

[@gnarfgnarf4004]

If you forgive someone their debt (13:10), they have to declare it as income to the IRS.

[@stavroskarageorgis4804]

Ha ha!

[@seanstennett3392]

Paul is appalling 😂 I just like saying that

[@hegagi839]

That old man, Bart, didn't know what was he talking. senile

[@charliedurham4248]

I would love to see Tovia Singer and Bart do a podcast together

[@tawan20082008]

I want megan lewis specifically

[@fourjohn4085]

I think there should be an in dept discussion, dedicated to the relationships, between Jesus, James, (brother of Jesus), Peter, (Bishop of Jerusalem), and Paul... What they agreed on, what they disagreed about, the final outcomes, and relationships going forward.

[@WarrenFahyAuthor]

Weren't the Gospels written after the writings of Paul?

[@thorpeaaron1110]

Yes

[@SharonFoster852]

Yes, but, they were based on writings that had been in circulation for some time.

[@John.Flower.Productions]

Based on the available sources, Jesus and Paul had very little in common. Paul was explicit in his lack of knowledge about or concern for Jesus, as he was only teaching/preaching Christ (which is quite different from anything else found in that era of Christianity/Judaism).

[@DenisDeCharmoy-fl3ht]

I can show you many sources in Aramaic and Sumerian languages of understanding the Truth of Scripture. Do you only read english? I have documented over 7 ancient plus 5 modern languages with most of what you have never read. Shalom Blessings from Africa

[@DenisDeCharmoy-fl3ht]

Where did the name Jesus come from? Please don't say the bible, then you are ignorant of scriptures. Find Ancient history and discover a whole world of truths by opening your heart and mind, to the unexpected journey of truth. Do you know Greek, as this will open your mind to knowing more of where the name jesus came from. The current calendar we all use (Gregorian calendar) was started when? From that answer you will have 1400 years of the Biblical Calender that dates back 2.7million years, to the birth of the universe including Adam and Eve. If you want to see heaven, lie on you back and look up, that's the HEAVENS. The place you want to go to one day is "the sea of fire and glass" sorry no heaven. You might have also seen statues of jesus and paintings of him. Where did the images originate from? You will fall off your to discover the truth of most beliefs on earth today. Over 80% of the bible has been changed, to create a web of deceit and BS that you would not believe. Please find everything that you believe in outside of your bible. Shalom Blessings from Africa

[@fcastellanos57]

This is incorrect. Who commissioned Paul to spread the news of Jesus being the Christ, and the atonement for our sins? Jesus did, so we should listen to Paul because he explains what the gospels do not. Paul has explained the consequences of Jesus’s death in his letters which give us a greater insight into the plan of salvation God set into motion.

[@gabrielmiller1226]

Paul was obsessed with Jesus. However he projected his own new age ideas on Jesus .

[@fcastellanos57]

@@gabrielmiller1226 This is a wrong understanding of Paul. Read his letters to start with. Paul has explained what no gospel writer did. He has given us insight in the plan of God which the apostles before him never saw.

[@bradmcvey4673]

Eurman I've read all your books most of your lectures your a rare breed most brilliant people can't explain things in layman's terms You can.and reach millions more people in being able to articulate your points superior Bart .looking forward to another book 📖 .thanks Bart .

[@DA-bp8lf]

So Jesus preached that you must repent, because god is coming soon?? It’s been 2000 years and he’s still a no show. What was his definition of soon?? 😵‍💫🫨

[@vvvvxxxx9999]

Tomorrow @ 2:45 Eastern Time.

[@Valdagast]

Compare GOP's stance on immigration and foreigners with Leviticus 19:33-34 _“‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God._

[@doc.pleroma-naut2747]

What is striking is that Luke/Acts is almost a polemic against Paul in which he never articulates Atonement (albeit there are some interpolations). Luke's theology is repentance for the forgiveness of sin not Paul's substitutionary soteriology.

[@davidkatz341]

I love listening to Dr. Ehrman and i confess i have a crush on Megan...

[@glennalphonse9711]

Nice program. Jesus was not a Christian , didn't teach Christian doctrines ,the Trinity doctrine, moving the Sabbath from one day to another, so who could compare Jesus to Christianity,what was the reason for doing it. And why do some believe it.🤔

[@Truth.is.Bitter]

Would you like to reason on the subject? Saul aka Paul was definitely a f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng whom Jesus wa-rn-ed about. He derailed the whole message of Jesus.

[@GeldardtheGrey]

Bart's soapbox this week is my 24/7 365 soapbox!

[@vvaloachi7263]

Let's Investigate from the Bible, Jesus's Teachings vs Paul's false teachings = [1] Paul: Salvation is by grace (Eph 2:8) Jesus: Salvation by keeping God’s commandments (Matt 19:16-19; Rev 22:14). [2] Paul: Faith is enough for salvation.[Rom 10 : 9-11] Jesus: Faith is not enough but obedience is required for salvation. (Matt 7:21-23; Luke 6:46) [3] Paul: Paul was appointed as a teacher (2Tim 1:11) Jesus: Jesus Christ is our only Teacher (Matt 23:10) [4] Paul: Law of God is cursed [ Galatians 3:13 ] Jesus: Law of God brings life (Matt 19:16-19) [5] Paul: Christ had abolish the law (Eph 2:15) Jesus: Christ did not come to abolish the law (Matt 5:17) [6] Paul: those who want to follow the law of God, has left the Christ !!(Gal 5:4) Jesus: Must follow the law wholeheartedly (Matt 18:8-9 & 19:17) [7] Paul: Wide gate and easy way - just by calling on Jesus name and believing in Him in heart (Rom 10:9-11) Jesus: Narrow gate and difficult path by obeying Jesus Christ (Matt 7:13-14) [8] Jesus = preached the same religion of Moses. Paul = by crucifixion, law of Moses is obsolete.(Eph 2:14-15) ============ These are a few examples. there are many more. Below 2:30 min video contain more information. ============ [9 min video] The Apostle Paul was the anti-christ according to the first Christians kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZ7OqJZ9dtlmjrM =========== [2 : 30 min video] Jesus vs Paul Teachings according to the Bible - Jesus message Distorted! kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXW8XqeVe9yrrJI ================ Jesus's brother James, who was one of the disciples of Jesus, opposed Paul's false teachings. if you have real interest, collect these books = Jesus vs. Paul : Christianity's Greatest Lies Exposed www.amazon.com/Jesus-vs-Paul-Christianitys-Greatest/dp/0615917747 PAUL VS. JAMES: The Battle That Shaped Christianity and Changed The World www.amazon.com/PAUL-VS-JAMES-Christianity-Changed-ebook/dp/B07GJTT4TD ================= We Muslims have got no objections with the teachings of Jesus. But Paul is the corrupter of Jesus's message. He attacked the real Christians physically at the time of Jesus. & after the departure of Jesus. he attacked the lovers of Jesus spiritually by corrupting the teachings of Jesus. ============= Summery of how Paul corrupted the teachings of Jesus Christ(pbuh) = The whole old testament + The Teachings of Jesus in new testament , and also The Quran says the same thing - 1. ''GOD is One and Only'' 2. Follow the commandments of GOD wholeheartedly. 3. Repent from sin and ask forgiveness from GOD the Father - you will be saved & not be punished. . But after the departure of Jesus Christ (pbuh), Paul changed the teachings into - 1. God is 3 in 1. 2. No need to follow the commandments of GOD 3. "original sin" - you are sinner by born for a sin that u never committed. and the sins u really commit u need not to repent but to believe in Jesus crucifixion. So, Follow Jesus = Go to Heaven for ever. Follow Paul = Go to Hell for ever. May GOD guide us to the path of truth. =================

[@BenM61]

Read ‘Paul and Jesus’ by James tabor. It is really that good.

[@mariakarayan9997]

Why don't you simply do as the Christ did? Copy his walk. Copy his fasting times in the wilderness. Cut of your bodily senses and stimulate your thinking faculties be conscious

[@gnosticallyspeaking3544]

"...stimulate your thinking faculties be conscious" This is so, so important. What people don't get is that it's not about the just believing. It's about the understanding. Jesus got that. Unfortunately, Paul did not. Jesus laid it out in Matthew 13:10: "The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.”

[@d.m.collins1501]

you guys really wasted a lot of time spending a serious chunk of this episode talking about Paul and Jesus. Now I'll NEVER know what foodstuffs Megan Lewis brings home from England!

[@davidk7529]

❤️

[@QuasiKing2423]

And you are???

[@Bjorn_Algiz]

Love this topic and subject! ❤

[@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9]

Jesus actually taught Islam but after him ppl changed his message. Mathew 9.13 - God prefers mercy not sacrifice. Heb 9 (unknown author) a sacrifice is needed. Deut 12.31 - man sacrifice is pagan. Mark 8.12 - this generation gets no sign. Mathew 12 the later gospeI adds sign of jona... - more change. Mark 12.29 God is one. Numbers 23.19 - God is not a man. James 1.18 - God does not change. Any verse saying Jesus is God applies to others. Jon 10.30 father & I are 1. Jon 17.21 me and my disciples are one like God. So is God 1 or 15? Can't be 3 in 1 is consistent. Here is a verse overwritten. Luke 3.22 nrsvue footnotes said earlier manuscripts say h spirit says TODAY I BEGET THEE - as an aduIt so Jesus is human only.

[@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9]

Ehrman said to licona gospeI accounts are not reliable. Mark 15.40, mathew 27.55, luke 23.46 all say Jesus's crew were at a distance so likely didn't see. They all say Simon carried the cros. Jon says disciples were at foot of the cros but denies simon who many think was switched with Jesus carried it. This proves Quran 4.157 right, they didn't see a cruciFICTION but guess. As for resurrection. Mark 16.9 to 20 are added Mathew 28 & luke 24 disagree if final meeting is in galili or not. Jon 20 says go to other tribes but this contradicts disciples fighting pauI over going to other tribes & Iaw. Mathew 15.24 says I am only sent to my tribe. So Monotheism, no sacrifice needed, no cruciFICTION or resurrection but Iaw & tribal ministry just like Islam says is Jesus's original message in the 4 gospels. - James the leader after Jesus didn't say a word of paul's new Iawless cruciFICTION faith but faith then works like Islam says, he is a buffer between the real teachings and PauIy-theism. Mathew 21.38 to 43 says the cruciFICTION attempt will make his tribe lose the blessings to the fruitful aka Ismail in genesis 17, Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him is from that tribe.

[@glennalphonse9711]

When some one gives their life for a purpose that doesn't mean the are killed ,you just do all you can to make someone life better than it was it doesn't require death.😮

[@islandofmisfityoutubers6734]

The doctrine of atonement IS distasteful 1000% agreed

[@Thomas_Zscheile]

I think there are misconceptions of what atonement actually is. And to be honest, penal substitionary atonement is one of them. Paul is very clear when writing about Christ dying for us that we will be dying with him. So Jesus is a forerunner and not a substitute. Atonement in Jewish thinking is a ritual which uses the blood to clean or purify the holy place from the contamination of sins and impurity. The rituals thus allow for God to be invited to be with His people. Animal sacrifices could not cover or atone for willful sins. These were polluting the land and the only way to get rid of them were the death of the sinner or the people as a whole going to exile. Such sins are eliminated only by God's forgiveness. (e.g. David was forgiven by God after taking Bathsheba) Jesus' blood has the potential to clean the heavenly temple from our sins, even willful ones. That is stated in Hebrews, but not by Paul. When Paul speaks of what Jesus' blood does, he rather views it as something that purifies us like water (which is not a sacrifice). Or he makes the point that it is used to make a new covenant between God and people. This also is not a sacrifice. I recently read "Lamb of the Free" which deals with this topic quite extensively. I can highly recommend it. Thomas

[@ephall63]

I find the atonement is a scarlet thread that ties the whole Bible together.

[@Maximos384]

Well good thing penal substitutional atonement is not in any scriptures. It is a Calvinist invention

[@islandofmisfityoutubers6734]

@@Maximos384 exactly

[@psicologamarcelacollado5863]

The DIscussion starts at around 7 minutes, just in case anybody wants to know.

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

I definitely find the doctrine of substitutionary attonement reprehensible

[@russellmiles2861]

Oh that because unlike myself I haven't sinned ... Whereas other folk have guilt trips.

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

@russellmiles2861 well sin isn't a real thing, so...

[@ThisBloke760]

It seems to me that Jesus, born under law, taught how impossible it is to enter the kingdom by law keeping. The sermon on the mount pointed out that very fact. Paul, under grace, taught the way to enter the kingdom was thru the atonement of Jesus on the cross.

[@randysatterfield7966]

It would be so cool if Bart put some pink, purple, and blue coloring on his beard and mustache to match with Megan's hair! Imagine how awesome it would look with their matching round glasses too when they both are side-by-side on the screen! I think that would really boost the show! Bart, if you're able to get this message, let's make it happen! 😂

[@rashidrahman9673]

Paul invented Christianity, trinity atonement so many other pagan beliefs, Paul Was a roman citizen who changed Jesus movement, James and the desiples wanted to kill him in Jerusalem, roman soldiers saved him..

[@azlanbinismail]

James and the disciples don't want Paul in Jerusalem spreading his pagan water down Jesus teaching.

[@Jesusistheway5724]

Please stop talking BS 🙏🏻

[@hehahu-wx2gn]

​@@Jesusistheway5724why. why u still promoter of human made religion and book. why u not search the true god ur self?

[@Jesusistheway5724]

@@hehahu-wx2gn Because it is The Truth ✝️✅. What is your belief?

[@spicyroads]

I don’t understand where Paul got his authority to change the religion

[@PeterSchmuttermaier]

He didn't change it, I think. As Bart said, the people he persecuted already had the atonement belief. But I think I heard that he was not well liked by other church fathers of the time. His authority came from his charisma and successful founding of congregations everywhere, I think - but I am no expert on this.

[@misslayer999]

Yeah for real. Good point

[@edward1412]

Nothing was changed.

[@thorpeaaron1110]

​@@edward1412It was Jesus taught forgiveness and Paul taught atonement.

His authority came from the Flavian.

[@ravilaicerthegospel9512]

Jesus appeared to Paul in acts chap 9 and saved Saul of tarsus and he Jesus started dispensation of grace of God and gave it Saul of tarsus and gave Saul of tarsus the gospel of grace of God acts 20:24 points to that gospel an all this mean Jesus is reconciling the heavenly places In the beginning God created heaven the mystery body of Christ us is the heaven and earth 🌎 is Israel. You see God is reconciling the heavenly now that is us Israel stoned Stephen blaspheme the holy Spirit. They killed John the Baptist type of God the father and killed Jesus son of God also Israel stoned stoned Stephen holy Spirit They blasphemed. Israel in three strikes refused the kingdom of heaven or 1000 millennium reign of Christ Jesus was standing ready to bring the thousand years and God the father told Jesus to sit down and God the father send Jesus in acts chapter 9 to start the dispensation of grace of God. Moses said in the beginning God created heaven and the earth Moses wrote the five books the first book was Genesis. Moses wrote in the beginning God created heaven which is mystery body of Christ Moses didn't know Paul or Paul gospel this info was kept secret since the world began by Godwin Genesis 1:2 God was silent about the heaven 🌎 and God was reconciling the earth 🌎 and Israel refused the millennium 1000 years or the kingdom of heaven or in simple language God Post poned the earth 🌎 kingdom or stopped reconciling the earth and saved Saul of tarsus and started reconciling the heavenly heaven and that's when he started the dispensation of grace of God acts chapter9 and saved Saul of tarsus and gave him the dispensation of grace of God acts chapter9 and ephiisians chapter 3 Jesus gave Paul the gospel of grace of god also acts 20:24 first member of mystery body of Christ was Paul acts chapter9 and all of us are saved by Paul's gospel until the fullness of the gentiles. The rapture will conclude about Genesis 1:1 that creation of heaven and God will go back to Israel and begin 7 years great tribulation and 1000 millennium reign of Christ on earth 🌍 that is God will start reconciliation the 🌎 the pause button on creating the earth 🌎 in acts chapter 7 will play again that's why John saw new heaven new 🌎 Israel will be saved as a nation in tribulation

[@offgrid405]

Why would God choose someone who had apparently never met Jesus, except in 'revelations', to write 7 authentic books in the New Testament (where Christians get most of their beliefs from). Couldn't he find a scholar, maybe one of the disciples who lived at the time of Jesus and was an ardent follower of his sayings? We are now called to choose sides, because they taught different things. Makes no sense to me.

[@TruthIsABitterPillToSwallow]

God did send the course correction: The religious historian and philosopher Han-Joachim Schoeps says: “Here is a paradox of world-historical proportions: Jewish Christianity indeed disappeared within the Christian church, but was PRESERVED in Islam.” (Caps mine)

[@edward1412]

@@TruthIsABitterPillToSwallow lol

[@edward1412]

Paul was not just some ignorant Joe. Paul was a highly educated person who knew the Jewish laws, so there was a reason Jesus chose Him. Also, Paul eventually met Jesus’ disciples like Peter and James and they refereed to Him as brothers. You don’t need to choose a side because Paul did not contradict Jesus. Even in this video, Bart talked about how in the Gospel of Mark, Jesus claimed that He came down to give His Life as a RANSOM for many, yet he (Bart) doubts Jesus made such a statement. Throughout the Bible, Jesus kept on talking about sins being forgiven through His Blood and this message is throughout the Christian Bible, even in letters that were not written by Paul. Matthew 26:28 “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”

[@vvvvxxxx9999]

We follow Paul, that's why.

[@WSBM]

I would say that Jesus' atonement fulfills the Torah requirement of animal sacrifice for the payment of (repented) sin.

[@userchrisn53]

It breaks my heart that our representatives have forgotten about the separation of church and state and that we elect truly dangerous people like Marjorie Taylor Greene. It is even more disturbing that she has so little insight that she doesn't realize how ridiculous she sounds.

[@danlee9293]

I wonder what Marjorie Taylor Greene's agenda is. She turns a needed valid discussion into a blantant accusation if not a groundless verdict. Her vicious attack on Fauci is wrong. We have not enough evidence until we have access to more resources and evidence. China needs to open up. Bart is like Marjorie in a sense. It doesn't bother me since he is a historian. He has access to limited evidence and resources from the past, and yet has to conjure up a narrative that is plausible.

[@Sheltowee1775]

YES. PLEASE do the weaponization discussion. As a pastor I might end up recommending to our congregation.

[@andrewsmall3190]

Jesus taught to seek God's forgiveness through repentance, and following Him. Paul taught "how" Jesus made this possible. Also, Paul taught about repentance but did not emphasize it because he was writing to the churches, 'to the saints', who presumably had already done so. In addition, both Jesus and Paul taught that we must forgive one another and love one another. I don't see any contradiction between the two, rather just a different audience: Jesus to the unconverted and the converted; Paul (at least in his letters) to the converted only.

[@onejohn2.26.]

Paul is the false Apostle spoken of in Revelation 2:2 Because of Paul's word salad, 99.9 of christians, will not be saved

[@JopJio]

He is the one Jesus spoke of, when he warned the apostles.

[@John.Flower.Productions]

He is certainly the one being rebuked in James 2:17-26 and probably 4:13-17 as well.

[@onejohn2.26.]

@@JopJio agreed

[@tommyschmierer4627]

Lol 😂😂😂 ... I'm sorry for laughing but, 😱 omg ... I think God is a lot more tolerant, loving and understanding than many folks would have a person believe ... Humans seem to love to put restrictions on God and to try to put God in a box ... Something to think about I believe... Lets let God be God and just try to live our lives with loving-kindness ... Like Jesus told us ... That's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth ...lol God Bless 🙏💯...

[@Loenthall88]

And I assume you count yourself among the .1 percent? (Just a wild guess on my part.)

[@corneredfox7216]

I would say that if there was no Paul, there is no Christianity as we know it today. No Paul, no gentiles are brought into the fold. No Paul, then Christianity is constrained as a sect within Judaism.

[@tryme3969]

Jesus and Paul were never at odds with each other..... This channel is creating a false narrative about them, and Bart is going right along with it.

[@hazok4351]

How exactly do you know if your narrative is not the false one?

[@tryme3969]

@@hazok4351 I have no narrative.

[@hazok4351]

@@tryme3969 yeah, sure.

[@yallimsorry5983]

Did you watch the video?

[@tryme3969]

@@yallimsorry5983 Yep.

[@TheHungryHoneyBadger]

Hey Megan, I noticed in one of you and Bart's videos that you have a very attractive cat. I'd like to get a better look at it sometime.

[@joegallegos9109]

My American coffee drinking family and I did a wonderful trip to Europe last year and they were all Jonesing for a delicious cup of American drip coffee. I acclimated to espresso but they sure missed their giant mugs of drip coffee. 😅 I get it.

[@hipchik30]

So the rich man asks about how to get to heaven, but my understanding is that jews don't believe in heaven (or hell). Yet Jesus spoke quite a bit about these two topics. Has the disbelief in heaven/hell evolved over the centuries in Judiasm?

[@raycaster4398]

Paul is the fanciful writer and imaginative author of odd even bizarre ideas and claims -- that Jesus the man became the Christ -- an invisible mystical mysterious spiritual supernatural being. He had zero concern for and knew almost nothing about the historical Jesus. Paul who never ever met Jesus, claimed he got his theology directly (!) from Jesus, an entirely newly transformed creature. Paul was the one diametrically opposed to what the mother assembly, the Apostolic Council, and James and others in Jerusalem held to (the Law of Moses).

[@iu5898]

Brother Bart, your understanding of Jesus and his teachings almost identical to the Islamic understanding. I invite you to research and compare it. What is stopping you?

[@matthewwood2638]

I don't get it, it sounds to me that Jesus was preaching that the kingdom of heaven in present right now, not in the future: "If, by the finger of God I cast out demons then know that the kingdom of God is within you/among you." That is, "present."

[@gnosticallyspeaking3544]

I believe that is exactly the good news. Many gospel passages seem to support. Early in Mark Jesus says the good news is the time has come, the kingdom of God is near. Elsewhere says God is a God of the living, not of the dead. With Jesus teaching to give life more abundantly. Also says that least in the kingdom of God is greater than John the Baptist, the greatest of those who do not recognize the kingdom. In gospel of Thomas, describes God and his kingdom "Split a piece of wood and I am there. Lift up a rock and you will find me." Parables of what can we say kingdom of God is like and the great feast also seem to support.

[@rillip3]

For some reason the first adbreak about the podcast only came through my left speaker, and music was coming through on the right

[@joecanis484]

I still conclude that what Jesus espoused as religious dogma is very different from what Paul promoted. Jesus stayed closely tied to his religious origins and saw himself as a fulfillment of Jewish history. Paul took the Jesus story and created a whole religious doctrine that was a break with Jewish tradition and practice. He invented the basis which became Christianity, a wholly new religion with little in common with the objectives of Jesus. I do not believe that Jesus had any intention of creating a new religion beyond Judaism. Christianity truly should be called "Paulism" or the "Holy Paulist Church". Christianity's association with Jesus is a religious illusion.

[@TruthIsABitterPillToSwallow]

Paul was the f3r0c10us w0lf in she-ep's clo-thi-ng whom Jesus wa-rn-ed about. However, God Almighty did send the course correction. The religious historian and philosopher Han-Joachim Schoeps says: “Here is a paradox of world-historical proportions: Jewish Christianity indeed disappeared within the Christian church, but was PRESERVED in Islam.” (Caps mine)

[@vvvvxxxx9999]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and Paul. Paul is kinda like God's ' white out'. Like he got to thinking , " oh, I forgot my entire message" ( 13 books)

[@davidhinkley]

Also, I always saw the two strains of forgiveness vs atonement but I was instructed to be a good little soldier and trust that they were reconciled. They would have been better to have allowed some of us to just pick the first and better option because, like so many others, that was the first crack that showed me the light that led me out of Christianity and eventually all religion.

[@TruthIsABitterPillToSwallow]

The light is still there: The religious historian and philosopher Han-Joachim Schoeps says: “Here is a paradox of world-historical proportions: Jewish Christianity indeed disappeared within the Christian church, but was PRESERVED in Islam.” (Caps mine)

[@yorkshirepud9004]

Bart says that he is more of a Jesus guy than a Paul guy due to his distaste of the notion of blood vengeance, yet he conveniently ignores the fact that Christ's message of judgement in the gospel writings was many many levels higher and more extreme than Paul. For example Jesus said that the Sons of the Kingdom would be cast out into outer darkness where there is gnashing of teeth (Matthew 8:12), that we would be handed over to be tortured if we did not forgive from the heart in Matthew 18:35 and many other warnings of severe punishment, Luke 12:46, he will cut into pieces the wicked servants. I could quote many more severe warnings of judgment. Yet Paul's message is that God is not counting mens sins against them, and that we have been given a ministry of reconciliation!! The atonement satisfied the wrath of God so that Paul could preach the unsearchable riches of Christ. Or you think that rapists, murderers and evil child abusers can just ask for forgiveness without their being any consequences for anyone? No, we know that without the shedding of blood there can be no forgiveness of sins. The wages of sin is death, this is self evident when presented with the horrors of sin in the world, in genocides, in terrorism, in slavery. But the bible says, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus. Through his death & ressurection!

[@matrixman1947]

Jesus Peace be upon him lived a Life resembling a Muslim,.... While Paul who never met Jesus teaches the Christianity which is practised by the Christian World. Question, Who do you want to follow,. Jesus or Paul?

[@berkamp1]

“And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19‬:‭16‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬ Note that Jesus did not list the first 4 commandments, which are about loving God and putting Him first… But He said, sell all your possessions and follow ME… Doing so, you would be fulfilling the first 4 commandments!! Do NOT be deceived!! Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life. No one gets to the Father except through Jesus!

[@ElogheneOmoefe-Okoro]

Watched about three of your videos and all I get is assumptions, you’re assuming Jesus didn’t say this Paul didn’t say this against what is written. A historian talks with facts and evidence and more so let the text speak for itself rather than create meaning for it. Your whole argument is flawed, worse is your argument on Isaiah.

[@ravilaicerthegospel9512]

Why don't you know Paul preaching about the mystery

[@robinstevenson6690]

I'm not sure Paul viewed Jesus as the coming "Son of Man." The way Bart describes Paul's views earlier in this video, it seems more likely that Paul saw himself as either the coming Messiah or the Son of Man. There were certainly critiques of Paul at the time that claimed Paul was claiming to be Christ. And Paul himself seems to affirm this in Galatians 2:20" "I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Paul also refers to himself as if he were the living embodiment of Christ elsewhere in his 7 actual epistles. p.s. Also agree with Bart that Jesus probably didn't think of himself as the coming "Son of Man," although others in the gospels might have thought he was (or would be).

[@robinstevenson6690]

When it comes to Jesus' decision to sacrifice his life (for humankind), Jesus may have viewed his sacrifice not as an atonement, but as an example (or a way to drive his message home), much as Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi knowingly sacrificed their lives, not as an atonement, but as a teaching example to others.

[@bearlh40]

I'm surprised that I didn't hear the term "Paulianity" which is what I kinda see what Christianity turned to with Paul's overwhelming influence.

[@donkenobi]

Jesus’s primary audience were Jews. His disciples were Jews. They became his disciples by doing exactly what he asked the young rich ruler to do!! After Jesus ascended to heaven, guess who came down to lead believers into “full understanding?” The Holy Spirit. So why would you expect Paul to preach the same thing Jesus did? Jesus did what we ought call a “train the trainer” course and he selected Jews for this. Paul on the other hand who is also known as the apostle of the gentiles could not in anyway have told the young rich ruler the same thing. Jesus who saw Nathaniel sleeping under a tree certainly knew exactly what they rich young ruler was deficient in. Paul on the other hand could only provide guidance on what he learnt from the Holy Spirit.

[@charlesmoon2388]

From the outset where everyone in Christianity make this same very grave mistake OR ERROR IS that they have concluded that Mathew mark luke and John is the new testament and THAT they wrote the 4 gospel BUY THERE IS ONLY ONE GOSPEL 1COR.15:1-4 SO what you must do first and foremost is realize that just because the Bible interpreters put that fly leaf in between Malachi and Mathew saying it's the new testament without researching and just taking it as just that, is the first mistake FOR A TESTAMENT IS OF FORCE AFTER MEN OR DEAD HEB.9:1-17- 28 ACT 2:1- JER.31:31- HE SAID AFTER THOSE DAYS I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDA ICOR.15:1-4 GAL.4:4- NOT WITH THE NATION'S THE GENTIL DIDN'T COME IN UNTIL SEVEN YEARS LATER ACTS 10:1-;11;1- BECAUSE THE COVENANT HAD TO BE CONFIRMED FOR ONE WEEK WITH THE NATION OF YAHSHARAEL OR( ISRAEL) DAN.9:24-27 THAT'S A WEEK OF YEAR'S the second thing is Matt. Mark Luke and John wrote the new testament but the problem with that whole concept is YAHWEH SAID HE WOULD DO THAT WHY BECAUSE HE WROTE THE FIRST TESTAMENT EX.24:12- NOT MOSES THE OLD AND NOT MATT. MARK LUKE AND JOHN THE NEW EX.24:12 JER.31:31-33 AND THEN THEY SAY THAT THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN IN THE GREEK LANGUAGE AND THAT IS NOT TRUE BECAUSE THE FIRST OR THE OLD TESTAMENT OR COVENANT WAS WRITTEN IN HEBREW TO A HEBREW Speaking PEOPLE'S NOT GREEK SO COMMON SENSE WOULD BE THE REMEDY THE SECOND WAS ALSO WRITTEN IN HEBREW TO THE SAME PEOPLE'S NOT GREEKS FIRST ON TABLES OF STONE'S BUT THE SECOND IN THE FLESHLY TABLE'S OF THE HEART JER.31:31-33 2COR.3:3- ALTHOUGH THE GREEKS TRANSLATED THE SCRIPTURES BY HEBREW INTERPRETERS DOING IT FOR THEM BUT THE GENTILES DIDN'T HAVE THE LAW ROM.2:14- AND THEY CAME IN BY THE HEARING OF FAITH OF THE PROMISE THAT WAS GIVEN TO ABRAHAM THE FATHER OF FAITH 430 BEFORE THE LAW WAS GIVEN GAL.3:1-17- THE ISRAELITES IS THE ONLY ONE WHO HAD THE LAW GIVEN AND OR IMPOSED ON THEM HEB.9:1-14 - THE GENTILES WERE GRAFTED IN NOT PLANTED ROM.11:1-21 LET'S WORK WITH THAT FOR NOW HALLELUYAH

[@robinstevenson6690]

Bart, like you, John the Baptist was "more of a Jesus guy than a Paul guy," since what he taught about repentence and forgiveness of sins was precisely what Jesus taught. The mock religion Paul invented about salvation through acceptance of the atonement of Jesus came completely out of left field and had nothing to do with anything that either Jesus or John the Baptist were teaching. It sounds like the atonement idea was a kind of coping with cognitive dissonance ("why did God let Jesus die? It must have been an atonement sacrifice") was based on the superstitious sacrifices of the old Temple cult, which Jesus thought were outdated and beside the point. Anyone who believed that and made it the center of their faith was in error, because in doing so, they forgot Jesus' own teachings.

[@SpaceCadet4Jesus]

Despite what Bart says @17:32 and the incomplete idea he finally concludes with, instead according to scripture, Jesus specifically told the rich young ruler to give up that which he cherished most, his riches, and..... COME FOLLOW HIM, the video conveniently and awkwardly splices out that discipleship call. Bart says that God wants obedience (which is actually true) and that if the rich young ruler wants the 5 star hotel experience then sell everything, give to the poor and then he'll have treasures in Heaven. Full stop! But Bart leaves out the very important counter balance, that after giving your wealth to the poor, to FOLLOW HIM, where he will learn, like the other disciples, that Jesus is the Son of God and that faith in him is required for salvation. Hypothetical questions like "What would Paul say to the rich young ruler 20 years later?" would then be answered with, to repent for turning your back on Jesus, believe in the Son of God and follow the Lord Jesus. Sounds like the same advice to me. Repent of your idols, believe that Jesus is the Messiah and follow him. Any difference between Jesus and Paul's requirement is manufactured by Bart because of Bart's lack of providing to you the full truthful picture. In addition, what Paul preached was from Jesus himself, Galatians 1:11-12. Paul says he didn't learn it from, nor was it taught by man. And what did Jesus tell Paul to preach? Galatians 1:16 - "To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:" Paul didn't spread his own words after that revelation, but everything that was revealed to him by Jesus. These very facts annihilates this video!

[@paulphelps7809]

Very likely, Paul did not know the content of Jesus' teachings or ministry since the Gospel books had not yet been written---and his contact with the 12 disciples was minimal or non-existent. He did not live in Jerusalem or Judea after his conversion---his writings do not quote Jesus' sayings.

[@quetzelmichaels1637]

A kingdom was prepared for you at the foundation of the world. Earth isn't that kingdom. Adam tilled the soil and prepared the kingdom, the promised land, a heavenly home, the Garden of Eden, and then settled east of Eden until the day he wields the fiery sword in judgment. Further, Adam was not deceived (1Ti 2:14 NAB) Earth is YHWH's Everlasting Lake of Fire, his furnace of roaring flames where, in his furious wrath, he will gather you up, put you in, and smelt you. If your name is not found in the Book of Life, he will refine you, remove your dross, and purify you until you are cleansed of the Devil, the False Prophet, and the Beast (false beliefs). The Snake and the Worm: YHWH judged the heavens and became the snake. Adam, the Christ, judges the earth and becomes a worm. The gods neither know nor understand, wandering about in darkness Ps 82. The gods will be measured against Christ. YHWH is without measure. Adam wields the fiery sword, crushes heads the world over and holds his head high, a Master of the Demon SIn Gn 4:7; Ps 110. Through the intervening years, while the Ancient Serpent of Old has the sense of a beast until the time he is transifgured and revealed as the Anceint One of Days seated upon a throne on the Mount of Assembly, in the realm of Adam, where it is forever peaceful, beyond the heavens, Adam is the world of the will, the lamp of the light, and the image of the substance of YHWH. Adam is a thrid-party mediator to this world and these heavens; the root and only begotten offspring of YHWH, the Shining One, the Morning Star, the Light of the heavens. YHWH's people will be a kingdom of priests, the Assembly on the Mount. You will not always have me (Mat 26:11 NABO) (Homeward bound) I am with you always, until the end of the age. (Mat 28:20 NAB) (Began as the first Adam) My kingdom does not belong to this world. (Joh 18:36 NABO) (Third party mediator) Where I am going you cannot come. (Joh 8:21 NABO) (Left Behind) Then I took my staff "Refuge" and snapped it asunder, breaking off the covenant which I had made with all peoples (Noahic covenant) (Zec 11:10 NABO) Then I snapped asunder my other staff, "Heritage" (Deu 32:8) breaking off my brotherhood with (between?) Judah and Israel. (Zec 11:14 NABO) the one who ascended far above all the heavens (Eph 4:10 NABO) (Beyond the heavens) never to return to corruption (Act 13:34 NABO) (Wait, what?) Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father (1Co 15:24 NABO) I am the root and offspring of David, the bright Morning Star. (Rev 22:16 NABO) Blessed is the kingdom of our Father David that is to come! (Mar 11:10 NABO)

[@mrjayz94]

How do modern Christians not see the problem with this? Instead of trusting the words of the person the religion is about, they trust the words of some random guy who once saw a hallucination then proceeded to guess and post-hoc rationalise random rules for people. It’s totally absurd.

[@hehahu-wx2gn]

BART never reply or like or read comments. he is busy for money sources only like printing books and paid lectures. even deeply he knows its human made religion and book and he is 1 of developers. he prefer money and position than accepting the truth...

[@samsonsupaka8716]

Only those led by the Hily Spirit will find the secret common grounds on Paul's work for the church of his Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Martin Luther was one of them.

[@apollo8352]

Things that need to be pointed out is Paul did not get into the Christian faith till after 36AD while the Jesus guy died in 30 or 33AD. Paul then tells us in Galatians 1:11-16 that none of the information in any of his scriptures came from any eye witnesses, any other person or any other source! After Jesus 12 mates we know as Apostles publically called Paul a liar and stop Paul from ever being able to use the title Apostle. Paul stopped other followers of Jesus from writing or preaching anything Paul was not preaching, Galatians 18-9 & 1:13. Which is why the Gospels were attributed to the Apostles of the same name, not written by them! Paul tried and failed at getting people to follow his new Christian faith till he meet Luke in Greece in 46AD were Luke had lived all his life. The two of them agreed to write scriptures validating each others scriptures which made the claims much more convincing. Luke 1:26-38 is the main binlical claim of Jesus virgin birth, the one with guiding stars, mangers, donkeys, wise men and a Jesus messiah claim. Yet Luke never witnessed any virgin birth, Luke never even meet Jesus or Jesus mum... yet his scripture is what the virgin birth is based on! Lets hear from Luke in Luke 1:1-6 in which he tells us while he thinks the information in his scriptures is true, it is only what unspecified people generally believed.... another words not a single eye witness account in any of it and hear say from unspecified people while working with Paul who made no secret he was trying to convert the Jews and Gentiles to a new faith, (Acts 22:9). Skip to the resurrection claimed to be witnessed by hundreds, if you go thrrough the NT bible you will find around 33 scriptures all making the same claims seeming to validate each other....now take a closer look at whom the authors of those scriptures are; Paul and Luke writing under every pseudonym they can lay their hands on plus John and Matthew. If we ignore the fact Paul stopped other followers of Jesus writing or preaching anything Paul was not preaching.... the bible makes it clear none of the 12 Apostles were at Jesus death, or resurrection. So the entire resurrection is based on the testimony of Paul and Luke who never meet the Jesus guy and did not get involved in Christianity till years latter, and did not use any eye witness accounts in any of it! Paul is not at odds with Jesus, Paul invented Jesus who was some Massianistic group leafed the Romans put to death for insighting Jewish civil unrest. And Paul who's real name was Saul was working for the Romans to help put down Jewish civil unrest, so chose one of the dead ring leaders to ironically be the figure head of his new faith he was inventing that would be easier for the Romans to control, and attractive for the Jews to convert to as it seemed to be where many of the silly old Jewish prophesies were being fore filled! If your interested, this has been fully fact check by AI, and I can say all of this is what AI believes :)

[@claromagallanes2877]

Unless one knew the difference with God’s dealings between the Jews and gentiles, one could have a good grasp and harmony of the Scriptures. Jews were under the law including the apostle Paul. Jesus Christ teachings were based on the law the reason He confirmed the truth of the law, that no one could be justified under the law like that moral young man. There is always a loophole. Paul confirmed this truth. There are no odds between Jesus Christ and Paul being entrusted to minister to the gentiles under grace.

[@sulongenjop7436]

Paul is a born again christian but we must not interpret his idea/writing to be used for the church because that will divide the church! Jesus taught us about baptism, confession, forgiving, repentant, holy eucharist, love everyone, praying, etc.

[@samsmith5644]

Looks abundantly clear that people have problems accepting views other than whatever they have been told no matter how important and serious they are. It took a great genius like Newton to say it was gravity through millions have seen apples fall from tree earlier. God Almighty by virtue of HIS grace made things easier for people and came up the Last and Final Revelation, the Noble Qur'an in which HE talks in detail about the earlier scriptures, the prophets, Jesus pbuh and the final prophet Mohammad PBUH as well. Take time to read it and ponder over its verses with a real and unbiased heart. The fact that the Qur'an has been and will be preserved is in itself a miracle for people who are willing and honest in their search for the right path.

[@erikhouw]

I notice a small quotation bias in your explanation of the rich young man. What follows your quotation in marc 10:23-27 is the core of his teaching: that it is impossible to enter the kingdom of God on our own strength, but with god all things are possible: Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for those who are rich to enter the kingdom of God!” 24The disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God!” 26They were even more astonished and said to one another, “Then who can be saved?” 27Jesus looked at them and said, “With men this is impossible, but not with God. For with God all things are possible.”

[@davidbradberry7637]

THE MYTH-MAKER PAUL And The Invention of Christianity. Book by Hyam Maccoby.