Why Doesn't Bart Believe in God?

Bart has written a new book on Revelation, titled "Armageddon - What the Bible Really Says about the End". In it, he examines the least-read and most-misunderstood book of the Bible. It will be out in late March, but you can pre-order here: bit.ly/armgddn. Pre-orders really help drive publicity, so if you're interested in the subject (and why wouldn't you be? It's The. End. Of. The. World!), get it now while it's hot!
Visit www.bartehrman... to shop from Bart Ehrman’s online courses and get a special discount by using code: MJPODCAST on all courses
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A person’s reasons for deconversion from Christianity to agnosticism or atheism are something that many Christians speculate wildly about, misunderstand, or simply refuse to believe, but those reasons can be varied and complex. In this episode, Bart talks to Megan about why he deconverted, how he found meaning after religion, and why he does what he does.
In this episode, Megan asks Bart some personal questions:
-What impact did learning more about the bible have on your religious convictions?
-What truly prompted you to leave Christianity, and how long had you been wrestling with that problem before you realized that you couldn’t solve it?
-Was there a specific moment that led you to finally walk away, or was it more the culmination of years of thought and reflection?
-Did you find any of the solutions satisfying, or were they all lacking?
-What do you mean when you say you’re an agnostic atheist?
-Some people believe that the real reason you write all of these popular books, speak in public, run your blog and so on, is because you’re on a mission to deconvert the faithful. In the book “God’s Problem” you make the point of saying that you have no interest in deconverting anyone - so why do you do this work?

[@77goanywhere]

As a former deeply committed fundamental Christian of the Pentecostal/Charismatic variety, my journey out of this format of Christianity has been prolonged and difficult. I used to be very dismissive of Bart Ehrman and thought he was pure evil and even demon possessed. But after about ten difficult but enlightening years of gradually being willing to consider and then confront some very uncomfortable and confronting questions, I have come to greatly appreciate Bart's honest but humble approach to issues related to the Bible and Christianity. I still consider myself spiritual, but my spirituality today is free from dogma and fear, and is perfectly compatible with the insights and revelations that Bart Ehrman brings to light.

[@rizdekd3912]

Indeed the flippant way in which many believers pass off the journey of folks who left their theism behind reflects a poor understanding of what goes into such a trip. It is interesting you talked about it taking 'ten' years. That is approximately the time it took me to move from convinced Christian theist in my early 20s to someone who was comfortable admitting I no longer thought God existed in my 30s. My life didn't really change...at all. There were no outlandish sins I was chaffing to commit nor did it want to live a life of debauchery. I remained honest, as kind as I could be and avoided indulging in base desires and have been thus for over 40 years. I can't say I'm spiritual, but don't really understand the term. I am happy with my worldview.

[@charleswilliams8248]

Jesus Christ warned us in Matthew 24 several times, let no one deceive you! No one.

[@rizdekd3912]

@@charleswilliams8248 Would that apply to our accepting what Jesus said? 'Let no one...including me....deceive you.'

[@77goanywhere]

@Charles Williams It is a pity that the Jesus depicted in the gospels does exactly that. Predicting the coming of the "kingdom of God" to Jews who only understood that term to mean a new "golden era" of Israel with a new king on David's throne and establishing a worldwide theocracy by defeating all of the enemies of God by real military might and that prophecy absolutely failing, is either deliberate deception or an honest but serious mistake that amounts to deception.

[@norbertjendruschj9121]

@@charleswilliams8248 This includes Jesus, doesn´t it? And who cries loudest: "Hold the robber.""? Another robber.

[@bradsharp5737]

As a 40 plus year evangelical christian who was going through a difficult deconversion, I literally devoured Mr Ehrman’s books and lectures. I wish I could express my gratitude to him for his work. He helped me immeasurably .

[@DutchJoan]

I never realised that Dr Ehrman suffered the same painful deconversion and loss of community that many of us have. It's heartening to hear so thank you for sharing.

[@12jswilson]

For as much as I don't believe in Christianity or religion as a whole, I really do think they have it right as a community building tool. That's something I really wish that the atheist/agnostic community could try to find some replacement for because like Bart, I feel uncomfortable in a church

[@willardbolinger3317]

I did find Bart’s reasons very sophisticated considering so many obvious ones that any real God would know could not be true. Genesis day one story where the claimed God created light but the Sun not created until day four! In story where myth story of Adam and Eve eating from a Tree of Good and Evil a God speaks up and said if they would eat from the Tree of Life they would become Gods like us. Multiple Gods? Claim windows of Heaven opened to allow rain from a massive lake in a Heaven. A real God would know better. Also humans created in our image not my image or created from dirt is wrong. Adam did not name all animals but people gave them different names. Ark story myth and made out of gopher wood and pitch would collapse! Bible “God” kills whole towns including animals to make room for Jews is ethnic cleansing and immoral. Hundreds more could be listed!

[@randycooper3940]

​@@12jswilsonThe agnostic/atheist DOES have a replacement for this "community structure" that is associated/affiliated with .."church". It's called...EVERYTHING ELSE! "Church" does not have a monopoly on .."getting together". Throw a freakin party!

[@Dadohyeah]

I'm so sorry but your prayers were not answered put everyone does the same thing when the prayers aren't answered they think God's not listening were you ever truly saved please pray for that Faith they come back he's always listening

[@DutchJoan]

@@Dadohyeah Reasoned from a christian point of view hell will be far more populated than heaven. Then who is more powerful: God or Satan? And if you believe that in the end all will be forgiven who tried to live right and still enter heaven anyway, then what is the point of being christian?

[@marie60790]

"At a University you teach knowledge, not what you believe." More teachers could use that reminder today.

[@randycooper3940]

Modern academia has flipped that notion on it's head.

[@rayagoldendropofsun397]

Knowledge does not apply to University's alone, because it's just about Understanding of the SUBJECT, which starts as a Child.

[@yehudahekaru9539]

7:58 thank you for the light into the Christian religion. No, I am not atheist, but Bart's insight is helpful in knowing more about God anyway.

[@hegagi839]

Bart will believe a person when that person called himself *God*

[@rayagoldendropofsun397]

Bartolo is a speculator without any Science FACT on Jesus Resurrection from the dead, when it's a common sense Global observation 24/7

[@chriswebb4124]

Bart says he's not interested in deconverting the religious but more in helping people. I can honestly say I believe he has helped me more than anyone ever really has, whether they were trying to or not. I do completely agree with the view that agnostics and atheists are two completely different things and have accepted both classifications as my own. Dr. Ehrman, please don't stop presenting your very thoughtful understanding of the truth, even if it's only the truth as you understand it - which is truly the only truth anyone can know.

[@antoniaabrams4565]

Yes him and the MythVision podcast have truly helped me.

[@jenniperkins4260]

Agree !! 💕😭

[@Praise___YaH]

YaH The Heavenly FATHER (Genesis 1) HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Semitic: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"

[@rayagoldendropofsun397]

All of Jesus work are the result of Energy's Science Facts, including his resurrection from the dead.

[@lonniesatterfield1770]

@Rayagoldendro...It is evident that even though use Scripture, you need more light in your understanding. You claimed that God the Father was crucified and yet the Bible records God the Son talking to the Father while He ( The Son) was on the Cross. Sounds like you have accepted the Modalist view which was rejected as heresy in the 3rd century. Notice the following verses if you insist on denying the TRINITY. "Who raised Jesus from the dead?" Father ( I Thes 1:10) Son (John 2:19) Holy Spirit (I Pet 3:18) All Three distinct Persons possess the name "GOD" There are too many clear verses in Scripture for me to accept your faulty logic.

[@DonLumpkin]

What a wonderful program! My thanks to Bart, for his reasonable and informative presentation. I also want to mention my gratitude for Megan's willingness to let Bart talk at length, without interruptions. This is a skill that is sorely lacking in many interviewers.

[@barbaralamprecht5784]

Agree with your observation on Megan. Gentle and never talked over Bart; by contrast the interviewer Lawrence Kraus comes to mind, constantly anxiously interrupting his subject as though trying to prove he is the other's equal; in turn, me, the listener, gets agitated too. So thank you Megan, for demonstrating the art of the interview that becomes a conversation rather than a competition.

[@johnyoung6680]

It is very tough to leave the faith. I got married in a Catholic church 12 years ago. I love my wife, and we have two kids. About 5 years ago I started to have some serious doubts, that have now turned into a serious agnosticism. I grew up in a protestant evangelical household, where it was church on Wednesday, and Sunday School/Church on Sunday. In the car is was Christian radio, and Adventures in Odyssey, and we had all the McGee and Me movies. Both my grandmothers played the piano and organ for Sunday services. My grandmother even taught Sunday School and would often send me handwritten notes in college. If she was still alive, it would break her heart knowing where I am now. It's been a process to come to terms with all this. Bart's books gave me a more academic perspective backed by a scientific-method type approach. Bart's point; that I've heard him make often, is that if you concede that some facts in the Bible are inaccurate or even not true, it all unravels. More importantly, the certainty that people have that their religious belief is the one true belief (even in the face of contradictory evidence) was my personal tipping point.

[@walterclaycooke]

May be there is a god, but god is evil or just doesn’t give a hoot what happens to us good or bad?

[@johnyoung6680]

​@@walterclaycooke For me personally, that hypothetical is moot. It's a distraction from the biggest question that still remains...how should we treat claims of 100% certainty that aren't backed by evidence. We wouldn't dare do this in our personal life as an approach to problem solving, but evangelical apologetics just does some wild mental gymnastics. It goes against everything that the Enlightenment thinking provided society as a leap forward. I was living my life for years, based on things that evangelical 'adults' told me was the 100% truth. Then once I asked the honest questions, I found out that their certainty wasn't reliable or based on any real evidence. It was a very painful realization. Either way, I remain agnostic as I simply don't know.

[@notsocrates9529]

Scientism and academia can become their own cults and delusions. I would urge you to look into Orthodox Christianity. Fr. Seraphim Rose and Justin Marler really opened my eyes. I was atheist for most of my life so I will spare you the spiels I hated back then. There is more to this world than meets the eye. Our ancestors knew more than we give them credit for, a return to tradition would help begin to fill voids that are occupied by unhealthy vices.

[@cheryellemley-mcroy6758]

Johnny, your grandmother wouldn't be heartbroken. She now knows the truth.

[@johnyoung6680]

​@@cheryellemley-mcroy6758 With the religiously devout, any skepticism whatsoever is often met with some-variation of 'we know the real truth.'

[@Cor6196]

For decades after leaving Catholicism I kept a crucifix on my wall because it was a startling image of the most basic of truths: that life = suffering. Somehow being aware of that truth made my problems more bearable - what I was going through wasn’t exceptional. There’s a real comfort for me there.

[@cipherklosenuf9242]

I understand your point. We do and should honor those who die in public service. So, yes, proper respect for SWAT officers. But you realize this analogy is utterly anachronistic. Also, the hypothetical officer is responding to a real, immediate threat in this life… Not a threat after death suggested by a supernatural belief system. I understand the appeal of meaning one may find in supernatural beliefs. And, I understand how this framing may be meaningful to someone. Please recognize how my response to it, is authentic too, and grounded in understanding, not just hyperbolic accusations and vain arguments.

[@frankiewally1891]

I pity the people ,who either don`t want to use their imagination or don`t have desire to learn and rather stay enslaved by religious charlatanerie ; I keep the crucifix for the same reason you do, but I`ll tell you why.Buddist`s main teaching is that life is suffering and the salvation is the awakening,i.e.realising what is the root of suffering..I figured out for myself, that Christ`s example ,although appropriated and distorted by the churchly institutions ,is also a great metaphor about life; for me the Via Dolorosa is the concentrated in very imaginative form the whole human journey from birth to resurrection of full personhood and individual expression! Hence, I am free from the dogmatic weight o false belief yet free to enjoy the perennial wisdom of the story.

[@CCCBeaumont]

Come home to truth and faith. I urge you in the strongest possible terms, to be saved from this evil adulterous generation.

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there, the raw truth.

[@victoria1056]

@@jingojingo1the same dogma and cult as christianity

[@sollen123]

Bart, I have listened to you for many years. Your insights have been valuable to my personal faith. It has actually helped me be more truthful to myself. I don’t see Jesus as God, but I see him as a messenger. Whatever, the facts, I have a deep desire to believe in and worship a spirit greater than me. I value that spirit which lives within me. It gives me joy, gives me compassion for others and guides my discernment. Thank you again for challenging me. I see you as a messenger from that spirit guiding me to truth.

[@disneybunny45]

Listening to this podcast makes me wish I was a student again. I would absolutely love to be in his classes.

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there, the raw truth.

[@seabearpig]

​@@jingojingo1Crazy to proselytize on KZbin, hope it's working out well for you

[@mildredmartinez8843]

Me too.

[@wpoe54]

I was never a Christian as an adult, but at age 18, I joined what many considered (and still do) a cult led by a Korean named Sun Myung Moon. My conversion experience was profound and I remained faithful for about a decade. Moon's theology is based on creative interpretations of the Hebrew Bible and the Christian New Testament and it has been fascinating learning what Christians believe and what the scriptures mean in a historical context. My transition into a secular world where I no longer believed was devastating. I filled the void with an unhealthy lifestyle. It wasn't until I returned to college and studied for an MA in anthropology that I began to see life as hopeful, rich, rewarding, and that as you say, since this is it, make the most out of this life in a positive way. Cultures studied by anthropologists tell us that we are wired for cooperation and to care about each other. Faith can be a supporting mechanism, but being good doesn't require believing in a personal God.

[@jvanncunningham]

I have an undergraduate in social anthropology earned fifty years ago. As I reconstructed my religious and spiritual belief system, it offered me both a philosophical and methodological framework for better understanding the world. It remains so today. My career led me to work in over 40 countries. I, everywhere, was impressed with the almost universal yearning of humankind for god. I do not know if this human phenomenon is an ancient vestigial relic of evolution or an evolutionary adaptive mechanism. Regardless, it is undeniable. As for me, I am a committed agnostic and will never declare for atheism. As Bart points out, the truth of the assertion, "there is no God," is ultimately just one more unknowable "ism." All the best to a fellow anthropologist.

[@deeder001]

@@jvanncunningham Atheists could always admit there is a god. e.g. Fine, there could be a god. See? So we have a god that has not 'revealed' himself or herself in the obviously man-made legends and inane stories of some illiterate Middle Bronze Age Jews, then gentiles, again to the illiterate Pedophile Arab, again to the con artist who fled to Utah. Hinduism though not nearly as stupid or backwards, still is obvious mythology and legend. If you cull out that which is fairly clear to have been the work of men uninspired by any omnipotent all-knowing benevolent creator/guider, what does that leave? A non-specific Deism! "Nature's God". OK great, so we have a god who created the universe and laws but has just become an observer that does not intervene in the affairs of his creation, does not answer prayers if even hears them, left no moral dictates or commandments, no instruction or guidance as to how we are to go about having a 'personal relationship' with him or her, or how to pay tribute, possibly because he/she doesn't want to have a 'personal relationship' with us. The dead-beat father god, who impregnates the universe and then splits, leaving his creation to fend wholly for themselves? Maybe he is a serial dead-beat father-god. Goes around the universe spreading his 'seed' then abandoning them, too. Well if THAT is the sort of god anyone has been selling, then count us all in!

[@redx11x]

​@@jvanncunninghamThere is only one God, and Muhammad is his prophet.

[@michasobiech2671]

​@@redx11x Yeah, sure. 😂😂😂

[@redx11x]

@@michasobiech2671 why not, the message of Muhammed is clear and simple. He is Allah-the Uniquely One. Allah, aṣ-Ṣamad (the Eternal Refuge). He neither begets nor is born. Nor is there to Him any equivalent.

[@algie-t2w]

As a European I was surprised by the very evangelical nature of so much religion in the USA. In Britain and Europe religious belief is considered a quiet personal matter and evangelical types are viewed, to put it politely, as odd and rather demented.

[@ABARANOWSKISKI]

Even though I've heard Bart tell his deconversion story many times, I'm always fascinated to hear Bart tell it again, as a fellow apostate, it's sobering to hear that I'm not alone.

[@thedragonofechigo7878]

Me too

[@ABARANOWSKISKI]

@Gary Allen Yeah, I know plenty of people never bought into the religion thing, and always saw through it from the beginning. Not me, I really believed it. Although, even back then when I was religious, something about it never sat quite right with me. Something always seemed off about it. I could never exactly put my finger on it, until I deconverted. Then I realized, of course, when you believe in a falsehood, it's not gonna make much sense to you!

[@Merih98614]

No one, who is heading towards hell at the end of times, will notice whether or not he is in the company of others, even though he will be surrounded by billions all around him/her, because it won't be comforting to any minimal degree at all. Feeling comfortable because others share your view is pretty deceptive for everyone's life journey should be personal. The community life is only to help you get figure out your personal relationship with your 'destination'.

[@skepticseeker]

@@Merih98614 did u smoke some grass? did u smoke wat revelations author was smoking?

[@Raz.C]

@@Merih98614 Your 'destination' is a hole in the ground or an urn on the wall. The JOURNEY is the point of life, not some wishful-thinking about a fantasy land that exists beyond life. Do you think electricity 'goes' somewhere when it's not flowing? Does fire go somewhere when it's not burning? Do chemical reactions go somewhere when they're not reacting? No. Your life and everyone else's is the result of the your brain being functional. When the biochemical and thus bioelectric processes in your body stop, your brain stops functioning. When that happens, there's no "You" anymore. All you have left are the molecules in your body that came from elsewhere (air you breathed, things you ate, drank, injected, etc) and will eventually be returned to the air, water and earth. There's no "You" left to experience anything. Without eyes, you can't see anything. Without skin and nerves, you can't touch anything or feel anything. Without a nose you can't smell anything. Without ears you can't hear anything. But most importantly of all, without a brain, there's no "You" to feel/ touch/ hear/ see anything. Without a visual cortex to process vision, you can't see anything even if you DO have eyes. Your brain is what makes you "You." This has been shown time and again in all manner of studies related to brain injuries. A simple chemical imbalance in the brain can turn you from a loving family man into a remorseless murdered. A tiny cut to part of your brain and you can no longer recognise any faces you've known. A small nick elsewhere and you can no longer form understandable sentences. They make sense to you, but are utter gibberish to everyone else. A small slice in a different part of your brain and you're unable to say the name of objects you've been shown, even though you're still able to write their names with pen/ pencil. There are so very many different ways that damage to your brain can fundamentally change who you are as well as what you think and how you behave. If you had a soul, you wouldn't be able to change someone's personality and beliefs with a scalpel. I'm sorry to tell you this, but everything we've learned about the universe, the world and about humans, tells us in no uncertain terms that there is no afterlife, because there is no part of you that survives your death. You can, of course, choose to believe otherwise, but to do so, you have to ignore a LOT of evidence and in the end, you're only fooling yourself. Worse than that, you're robbing yourself of the richness your life could have held, if you weren't treating it as a tutorial level.

[@sloopy5191]

This is something I have been struggling with for ten years, I wish I'd come across Bart many years ago. Listening to him has brought me more peace regarding belief than I have known in my lifetime. Thank you Bart, more than you know.

[@Arven8]

Yeah, he's helped me sort a lot of Biblical things out, too.

[@BGross-wt7yc]

We’re all we are, all we have, and on our own. Wishful thinking won’t change that, but love in action can bring joy. “Rejoice, rejoice, we have no choice but to carry on!” ~ CSN

[@cipherklosenuf9242]

I understand…Hang in there! It took me years to acknowledgment that ‘people write books’ 😂 Some breakthrough! Anyway, yeah, it’s difficult to be honest with ourselves I know.

[@skat1140]

For me, the more you think about what life would actually have been like in preliterate 0-100 AD, the easier it is to see the Bible in context. A book (well, collection of books), written in Koiné Greek, 40-80 years after the fact, by people who weren't there, about other people who spoke Aramaic, which is then copied/recopied/emended, canonized _a thousand years_ later, translated into Early Modern English. How _possibly_ could this haphazard agglomeration be seen as "the literal, inerrant word of God"?

[@cipherklosenuf9242]

@@skat1140 Yes. And, we have far older baked clay tablets preserving sales receipts for Babylonian sheep but the Good Shepherd leaves his flock without a similar reliable document directly from himself. Jesus rises from the dead, visits with a few people and leaves with nothing written down for future generations (or it is lost ).

[@rggfishing5234]

Thank you, Dr. Ehrman, for being an intelligent and rational person and a great scholar. You are a gifted teacher and a gift to society.

[@phogue1]

By the way, Megan does an amazing job as host and conversation partner, and her knowledge and preparation add so much to the podcast.

[@CSHorn]

It helps that she is absolutely frikin gorgeous as well

[@RaineStudio]

She needs to listen more. Her first follow-up was oblivious to what Bart had just said.

[@Raz.C]

Who is she? Is she part of Team-Bart? Or is she a random person?

[@blascantu7221]

@neal cassady hater lol

[@tapewerm6716]

@@CSHorn She has a Virgin Mary face .. I can't stop staring at it.

[@tayrowell]

Always a pleasure to hear Dr. Ehrman speak.

[@potiphajerenyenje6870]

…and laugh. His laugh is so warm and contagious

[@doneestoner9945]

I love him.

[@thomasd2444]

21:59 - So agnostic & atheist 22:16 - When I became an agnostic 23:32 - So I don't think that anymore [A-ristotle ] 24:44 - 25:26 - 25:33 - I think all of us believe lots of things that, in 100 years people are going to think are ridiculous 25:41 - Trying to do good for people

[@songsmithy07]

As I went through my deconversion, Bart's depth of knowledge, critical analysis, and skillful articulation of his own deconversion were immeasurably helpful to me.

[@origenjerome8031]

You can check out Dan Barker too.

[@songsmithy07]

​@origenjerome8031 Thanks. I'm somewhat familiar, having viewed some of his debates on KZbin, though I haven't read his books

[@epicurusstan3223]

Same, it was his book about the history of hell that made me finally let that concept go

[@ianwright357]

👍 I wish the corresponding Matt Powell from Kent Hovind’s cult would adopt your attitude. The world would be a better place. Well done.

[@briendoyle4680]

hahahaah

[@Arven8]

It was so nice to hear Bart talk personally about the emotional costs of leaving his Christian faith, and what a painful struggle it was. I have "God's Problem" on my shelf and plan to read it soon. Thank you both for another great episode.

[@andrewmays3988]

God doesn't have any problems!!!😇

[@ericreed4535]

​@@andrewmays3988 No evidence that the power responsible for the universe looks like the latest iteration of hominid. Humanizing everything is a cognitive bias and more intellectual dishonesty. You're dogmatic in your claims.

[@ronniecortex4936]

@@andrewmays3988 I believe it has, I believe..

[@φαρμακεία-πρωταρχικός]

@@andrewmays3988 Precisely, because it doesn’t exist.😁

[@stevekraus1072]

​@@andrewmays3988 I have read "God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question -- Why We Suffer". It appears that you have not read this book. Personally I see no evidence of any gods in the world. There are over 4,000 religions and hundreds of brands of Christianity, and I do not believe in any God in those 4000 religions. Why would any compassionate god fail to take action to help end this terrible suffering?

[@dominicdmello7531]

Somehow I still believe in a higher being. Like a guiding force who influences my actions but doesn't interfere.

[@meteor1237]

Thx, Bart! Just got the new book. At 70 yo I found myself in the same place you are after many years of critical thinking.

[@mildredmartinez8843]

I love to read the story of people, especially older ones, who are taking an honest second look at their beliefs. Thanks.

[@Patrick77487]

Love Bart's easy-going sense of humor while navigating religious myth.

[@skat1140]

As well as his bold intellect. He followed the hard path his intellect ineluctably led him: right into deconversion. Many cannot (or subconsciously will not allow themselves to) tread this path.

[@busyb8676]

Thi# i# not a new problem. Read Ben Franklins autobiography,

[@pabloandres06183]

@@skat1140 yeah no. It wasnt anything biblical dude it was the problem of evil.

[@topologyrob]

@@skat1140I did and then grew further and outgrew my 20 years of atheism

[@Cashew10]

*Muslims Will Free Jesus From The Cross* *Will Christians….?* *By time machine,* I will go back in time 2000 years ago, to Golgotta hill. *I see Jesus hanging on the cross,* naked and being tortured. He starts to bleed. *What will I do?* * *A. I am so sad* and then I will beg Pilate to *free Jesus* from the cross. * *B. I am sad but also very happy* because my sin will be redeemed. So, *I'll just watch and let Jesus be tortured* to death with his blood shed, because *only through sadistic way and Judas' being possessed by the devil, I will live eternally in heaven.* *Muslims will definitely choose A.* While surprisingly, Christians don't want to choose B. This means, *Jesus was sent NOT to atone for human sins on the cross.* Strong *indications:* When Jesus was about to be arrested & crucified, *he was scared, hid,* told his disciples to buy swords, sad, prostrated and prayed to God. So, what was the true mission of Jesus? *The mission of Jesus was the SAME as the mission of the previous Jewish prophets:* to *TEACH & ENFORCE GOD's Law/ TORAH Law,* that is, worship only God the Creator, do good, repent, and avoid sins (John 17:3, Matthew 5:17-19, 10:6, 15:24, Mark 9:43-47, Mark 10:17-21, John 5:29, etc). Why? Because throughout Jewish history in the Bible, *the Israelites always broke God's law/Torah law, such as* worshiping idols, kill, adultery, steal, BRIBERY, hypocrite CORRUPTED priests, etc. *But Jesus' mission was opposed by Jewish High Priests.* Then Jesus was slandered and finally sentenced to death. Keep in mind, *the MISSION of ALL God's prophets is to SAVE their people,.* HOW? By telling them to *do God's commandments, namely only worship God the Creator, do good, repent and avoid sins.* In carrying out their mission, *all the prophets experienced super hard challenges, such as* rejection, humiliation, torture, betrayal, defiance, attempted murders, even murders. The true Jesus/Isa is in Islam. So, *look more into Islam from credible Islamic sources.*

[@michaelmcmiller5020]

Are contradictions PROOF that something is in error or could it be a lack of understanding on our part. Light has demonstrably properties of a particle. It also has properties of waves. The fact that waves are not particles & vice versa doesn't mean I have stopped believing in physics or light.

[@typ044]

The difference is we can observe and measure light and show it behaves as both.

[@ScottPaulJohnson]

I really appreciate hearing your story. For me, leaving the faith was very difficult and confusing. The part you said about being honest with yourself while at church was especially relatable to me.

[@brisadelcastillo2840]

Look up “THE CRUCIFIX FISH - WHAT THE CRUCIFIX FISH REVEALS”

[@2fast2block]

Then show how honest you are with yourself. Explain how we can get all this all on its own. The 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. It is clear creation had to be done supernaturally yet it is still denied because people are just too proud to accept that, among other things.

[@skat1140]

it's sad that Christians who become atheists cannot remain in the Christian community. But that, in a way, is the point (with most if not all religions). Your personhood is held hostage; should you leave (deconvert), you lose a great part of what you considered of value: your rituals, your habits, your community, your friends, perhaps even your significant other and children. You risk losing a significant part of what, up to that moment, made you you.

[@2fast2block]

@@skat1140 I had friends that didn't believe. I have a close friend that is not sure. Of course, they can't answer even how we got all this by natural means. The one atheistic friend I had was an ex-layer. He was very unfair in any logical and scientific examination of the evidence. It was clear he wasn't out for truth and after so much of it, it got old. My present friend who has doubts has no issue with my beliefs and he's never attempted to even really argue because he has nothing. I don't force my beliefs on him and I told him many times I'm praying for him. I'm a Christian and I'm fine with challenging even what churches believe, as a result, I'm looked down upon by churches because they believe whatever they want and don't like me telling them they are not correct. I know loneliness better than most atheists.

[@ScottPaulJohnson]

@@2fast2block Wow I didn't notice that anyone responded here! You said "Then show how honest you are with yourself. Explain how we can get all this all on its own." 1. I am honest with myself when I say "I don't think there is a god." I'm honest with myself when I say "I don't think an all-loving, all-knowing, all powerful being would create a world like this." So those are the reasons I left Christianity. Or should I say I left the community because I was no longer convinced of the main claims of Christianity. 2. I can't explain how we "can get all this on it's own." Maybe you could get me to the most basic deism - the idea that some "being" started everything off, but it sure doesn't look like a being has been involved AT ALL since then. I'm more comfortable (ie, it feels more honest) saying "I don't know, but it doesn't seem like the guy in the bible." I don't have an answer. I'm saying "I don't know, but I doubt there is a God." And you're saying "It has to be god because what else could it be?" Are you out to seek truth, or are you out to seek possible answers? Those two things might have some crossover, but they are not the same.

[@jstanc18]

I'm a deconverted Catholic, and my wife is still a practicing Catholic, and I've wondered how we can both support each other in our individual journeys. I wonder how Bart and his wife handled his deconversion.

[@jdaze1]

​@@MikeJJJ the NT resurrection is referring to resurrection in THIS LIFE. It's spiritual. There was no bodily resurrection. The gospels were written as spiritual allegory then corrupted by Rome by literalizing them. This is the deception and strong delusion we were warned would come. The truth is hidden within the bible like a pearl of great value. Most never find it. Bart found all the discrepancies and corruptions then just wrote the whole thing off instead of rightly dividing the word of truth from lies inserted by the scribes. Jer 8.8. there are more than one warning in the bible that it's not innerant and we should find the truth by establishing the word by 2 or 3 Witnesses Line up on line precept upon precept. Here a little there a little. Most refuse to believe the truth is still hidden in the bible especially after figuring out they've been deceived their whole life believing a lie. They just throw the baby out with the water. It's unfortunate because the truth is quite simple. Repent, live the moral code, love others as yourself. Period. All religions are man made and never instituteed by God.. just by men as a way to control, oppress, and steal wealth from the people. The simple truth will set people free from the bondage of My Sanai and traditions of men.

[@crede9427]

Don't let your kids ever be alone with a priest

[@pansepot1490]

As long as people are decent and respectful of others, differences on religion shouldn’t matter. Seth Andrews, former evangelical and now atheist activist, has a believing wife. He’s talked about their relationship sometimes, pity I can’t point to a video specifically. I take it back, recently he mentioned a video of his titled “letter to a Christian spouse” inspired by a person who had just deconverted and had talked to him about his problems with his still believing wife. May be interesting to check it out.

[@henrieecen2938]

Jstance our struggle is with religiosity hypocrisy literalist Bible interpretation etc etc not with faith hope and love as shown by Jesus. Do not debate critique the churches flaws but simply have a loving gracious heart towards all men including your wife. Leave it to God/Life we are all on a journey including your good wife. I have been much helped by Such Christians as Richard Rohr Brian McLaren and Brad Jerzak etc. Such a different outlook on the church Bible and Christian walk etc. SHALOM brother and continue. It's in our dark nights of the soul that God touches us with His peace. "Be still and know that I AM God (in us)😇

[@Volaer1]

@@crede9427 Don't be silly.

[@Jakeknapp]

Great interview. I also consider myself an agnostic atheist who grew up Evangelical Christianity and eventually had to walk away due to things I could no longer reconcile. While the deconstruction/deconversion journey was a difficult one, I feel it was necessary to objectively question the indoctrination I was raised with and forge my own path. I appreciate the knowledge and insight that Bart shares, and I look forward to reading his book. Cheers!

[@MrArdytube]

An excellent video! So many interesting topics. One that rang a particular chord was Bart’s comments on the struggle involved in leaving religion. It is not a lazy, self indulgent choice. In fact, the de-conversion choice was much more difficult than my glide into Christianity from childhood.

[@StormOracle]

Thank you Megan and Bart, this podcast is so needed, especially in today's world. Bart, your journey out of conservative Christianity and into a new understanding is why I believe you're one of the most important teachers of our time. Today's talk gave me an opportunity to not only understand you better, but to understand myself better. This deeper look is filling in some holes that have been bothering me in a book I'm writing on the Seven Storms Uprooting Humanity. Thank you again, Cindy

[@ingenuity168]

The bible is full of inconsistencies and bs 👎🏻👎🏻

[@kevinburris3729]

Lol 🤣 A guy saw people starving on TV, blamed God (who provides the world with more than ample food in fact we THROW AWAY about as much food as we consume in USA) and you think he’s a hero? Seriously 😱? Each year, 119 billion pounds of food is wasted in the United States. That equates to 130 billion meals and more than $408 billion in food thrown away each year. Shockingly, nearly 40% of all food in America is wasted.

[@Praise___YaH]

YaH The Heavenly FATHER (Genesis 1) HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Semitic: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"

[@susanrhodes9079]

​@@Praise___YaHLots of word salad and no substance in your argument. You ASSUME your source documents are factual ad correct when in reality, they are not. A belief in a metaphysical being running things in the physical world is simply a primitive thinkers explanation for life events they didn't understand due to a lack of scientific knowledge. If you ever clean the wax from your ears and open your mind, the truth will set you free

[@bradbray1737]

I was ordained into the Lutheran church and served churches for over 30 years. Also, I served as a chaplain in the military and in hospitals. I started questioning "the problem of suffering" while in seminary by my 4th year after reading Douglas John Hall's book, "God and Human Suffering." I took a class on The Book of Job in my senior year that really started the ball rolling on questioning the relationship of suffering in the universe and a presumed "Loving and Good God." I KNEW as I started my 1st year in the congregation as a minister that I was in real deep shit. I became a huge fan of the The Jesus Seminar with John Dominic Crossan, Marcus Borg and many others. They were my life line throughout my decades in the church. I tried to be honest and leave the church but could not find work that could support my family of 5. Needless to say, it was hell. I felt like I was living a lie and being paid for it!!! Guilt does not even come close to my feelings. I did my best to offer classes and preach historically empirical based sermons regarding the bible. I held on to an agnostic position until I was medically retired 5 years ago. I'm happy to say that Bart Ehrman was a regular read throughout my clergy years. I was even able to have a year long adult bible class using his DVD materials. It caused a lot of uneasiness. Facts and intellectual honesty seem to do that in the church!!! Thank you Dr. Ehrman for all the years of work you have given as a gift to thinkers and those who struggle with "normal" in church and society. Parenthetically, these days I have a personal "walk" with what I would label as a secular Buddhism. I was introduced to the writings and practice of Thích Nhất Hạnh about 20 years ago. His words became a personal well of sustenance of getting through (and passing by) the arid drought of today's world, the church and Christian theology. In short, we suffer because we are alive (and conscious). The daily practice is whether we can be aware enough of our basic "self" to respond to suffering with compassion in thought, word and deed. There is no need of a deity in this practice. Buddha and Jesus are human brothers in this challenge to be compassionate in a brutal existence. I can deal with that. Namaste.

[@mrkiplingreallywasanexceed8311]

You shouldn't have worried - in 2014, The Guardian published the results of a survey of Church of England (Anglican) clergy (what I think would be called Episcopalian in the States) and 2% were found to be outright atheist with one stating point blank that he thought "God" was almost certainly a human construct. Even amongst the recently ordained, only 91% were "sure" God existed. For those coming towards the end of their careers, often begun forty or more years previously, that figure fell to a still surprisingly high 79%, at least it sounded high to my way of thinking til I reminded myself these were actual priests. So with at least one in five of them by retirement harbouring at least serious doubts, it really does make one wonder.... Sounds like you have found something else to accommodate that peculiar need Man seems to have. You're fortunate since, albeit minus the dogma, perhaps you have found God after all...

[@Cashew10]

*Muslims Will Free Jesus From The Cross* *Will Christians….?* *By time machine,* I will go back in time 2000 years ago, to Golgotta hill. *I see Jesus hanging on the cross,* naked and being tortured. He starts to bleed. *What will I do?* * *A. I am so sad* and then I will beg Pilate to *free Jesus* from the cross. * *B. I am sad but also very happy* because my sin will be redeemed. So, *I'll just watch and let Jesus be tortured* to death with his blood shed, because *only through sadistic way and Judas' being possessed by the devil, I will live eternally in heaven.* *Muslims will definitely choose A.* While surprisingly, Christians don't want to choose B. This means, *Jesus was sent NOT to atone for human sins on the cross.* Strong *indications:* When Jesus was about to be arrested & crucified, *he was scared, hid,* told his disciples to buy swords, sad, prostrated and prayed to God. So, what was the true mission of Jesus? *The mission of Jesus was the SAME as the mission of the previous Jewish prophets:* to *TEACH & ENFORCE GOD's Law/ TORAH Law,* that is, worship only God the Creator, do good, repent, and avoid sins (John 17:3, Matthew 5:17-19, 10:6, 15:24, Mark 9:43-47, Mark 10:17-21, John 5:29, etc). Why? Because throughout Jewish history in the Bible, *the Israelites always broke God's law/Torah law, such as* worshiping idols, kill, adultery, steal, BRIBERY, hypocrite CORRUPTED priests, etc. *But Jesus' mission was opposed by Jewish High Priests.* Then Jesus was slandered and finally sentenced to death. Keep in mind, *the MISSION of ALL God's prophets is to SAVE their people,.* HOW? By telling them to *do God's commandments, namely only worship God the Creator, do good, repent and avoid sins.* In carrying out their mission, *all the prophets experienced super hard challenges, such as* rejection, humiliation, torture, betrayal, defiance, attempted murders, even murders. The true Jesus/Isa is in Islam. So, *look more into Islam from credible Islamic sources.*

[@kevinburris3729]

“KNEW as I started my 1st year in the congregation as a minister that I was in real deep shit” Ephesians 4:29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Umm maybe that’s one example of “not doing anything different after conversion”? Or did you have a foul mouth as a “Christian”?

[@manfrummt]

Couldn't find a different job so you acted like a preacher? Dude that's sick.

[@CCCBeaumont]

Sorry to hear that. You fell for the seductive lies of progressivism, imo, and are far worse off for it. The good news is, if you were ever a child of God you still are a child of God. Thankfully, you will find Him still accepting one who rejected Him.

[@Philusteen]

Thank you for all you do, Bart. I had the exact same experience with the Creed; For a long time I went to church but stayed silent during the creed unless I thought someone was watching me (or if I was helping the celebrants). And I do miss being active in a faith community; but I can't engage they way they want to. If I try to inject philosophy, biology, or healthy thought patterns into discussions on healing, suffering, or sadness, it just......well, it's just hard.

[@hjeffwallace]

As we moved from fundamentalist Baptist to more liberal, my wife and I ended up in a Presbyterian church. I have always found it ironic that the liberal denominations recite creeds. When we joined, I told the pastor I did not believe the creed. He said many of the members did not. I’m now atheist, but do like the church. There’s just no truth in it.

[@Philusteen]

@@hjeffwallace my friend, I feel the exact same way. Folks who have left the church based on study, reflection, and reason, have a unique perspective on the beauty and community they had to be honest with. Which, I'd argue, is a truly heartfelt way to deal with people from a place of honesty.

[@earthangels4977]

The harder its...the better the satisfaction

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

*_"For a long time I went to church but stayed silent during the creed unless I thought someone was watching me"_* I was about 14 or 15 when I stopped chanting it at Roman Catholic mass, even when my father was glaring at me out of the corner of his eye and chanting it artefically loud. I'd stopped saying it when no one was watching a few years earlier. {:o:O:}

[@abdul-hananabubakari7287]

Consider looking into Islam. It is the only way of life that can satisfy your heart, mind and soul. Put aside any preconceived notions or biases and examined the faith in totally. Start by reading a translation of the Koran (I recommend Clear Qur'an). It challenges mankind to try and find contradictions and inconsistencies (in the fields of science, history, embryology, astronomy and so on) in it. It calls mankind to the worship and obedience of the One true God (Allah). The "problem" of evil is not actuality a problem in Islam. This life is a test. We were created to worship Allah only and to shun worshiping false deities, money and our desires. Allah says (67:2 of the Qur'an) what could be translated as: [He] who created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed - and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving. Qur'an 2:214: Or do you think that you will enter Paradise while such [trial] has not yet come to you as came to those who passed on before you? They were touched by poverty and hardship and were shaken until [even their] messenger and those who believed with him said, "When is the help of Allāh?" Unquestionably, the help of Allāh is near. Qur'an 29:2 Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried? Qur'an 98:5-8 And they were not commanded except to worship Allāh, [being] sincere to Him in religion, inclining to truth, and to establish prayer and to give zakāh (the poor due). And that is the correct religion. Get Quran App: gtaf.org/apps/quran #GreentechApps

[@charliedurham4248]

I always learn something from Dr. Ehrman. I go back and forth calling myself an atheist and an agnostic, often dependent on my audience. Now I feel much better about calling myself either.

[@MrBevoRules]

The last couple of years, I've called myself an agnostic-atheist. Meaning I don't believe it's possible to know if some sort of God exists, but I do not believe in the god of the bible.

[@mikeharrison1868]

Yeah. Due to my finite nature and understanding I can't be 100.0000% sure that there is no god. From that point of view I logically have to call myself an agnostic. However, from where I sit it feels like there's a 99.99% chance that the god of the Bible doesn't exist. The thing that gets me is not the existence of suffering per se, but the quality and amount of suffering, and who suffers. A deeply involved question...

[@melbied6215]

@@mikeharrison1868 Yes. I prefer to call it “The Problem of Gratuitous Suffering.” Especially suffering caused by natural events like tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, etc.

[@followthewolves1991]

I consider myself an agnostic atheist because anything that most define as super natural(ghosts, gods, demons, etc) haven't been proven through repeatable and verified means. I can't be 100% sure those things don't exist, for all I know some god sneezed us into existence then left for another universe. But there is no proof for it so there is no reason to believe that.

[@mikeharrison1868]

@@melbied6215 Yes, suffering caused by tsunamis, earthquakes, floods is hard to explain. But what I find worse is the extreme cruelty that some humans are capable of. Yeah, a bit of selfishness here and there is to be expected. God could allow people enough free will to be shitty to each other. But how could a good god allow the extreme depravity and cruelty that we sometimes see - especially that which is inflicted by adults on innocent children.

[@markofsaltburn]

You can never love someone freely if there’s a punishment for not loving them.

[@FLATearthGARY]

After 50+ years in Christianity, that’s the one thing I could never get past and it’s what led me out!😊

[@benohara284]

Yes it's the perfect description of a sadomasochistic relationship, being commanded to love for fear of punishment

[@CCCBeaumont]

You choose the behavior, you choose the consequence. You indicate to God you do not want Him and He grants that, and then you complain that this is somehow unfair. Unbelievable.

[@benohara284]

@@CCCBeaumont no its not that we don't want "him", just commenting on the absurdity of a relationship like that, I didn't indicate anything yo a non existent being, this "him" by the way, what makes it a "him", does it have genitals, if so ,what for ?if not how is it a "him" ,?

[@CCCBeaumont]

@@benohara284 He has revealed Himself in and with masculine pronouns, whether or not this offends us, or whether or not we find it irritating, or even irrational.

[@billirwin3558]

When people like Bart are so honest about their journey out of faith, it is helping others on the same journey feel they are not alone. And demonstrates there is life after faith. Every journey out of faith is different, but in some ways also the same.

[@skat1140]

It's surprising that the thing that knocked Bart's faith off its pedestal was a simple clerical error. (A priest cited as the head priest in one Book is cited as an assistant in another Book, thus to Ehrman the Bible is no longer literal nor inerrant.) I suspect his personal turning point differs from most deconverters.

[@billirwin3558]

​@@skat1140 With Bart, that was probably the straw that broke the camels back. Everyone has a different breaking point. And even a clerical error shows inerrancy to be a lie.

[@topologyrob]

@@billirwin3558there’s a hell of a lot of Christianity beyond fundamentalist inerrancy ffs

[@crede9427]

The most accurate, knowledgable and modest of biblical scholars

[@topologyrob]

He’s more of a popular writer than a serious biblical scholar though

[@CCCBeaumont]

I don't at all see the humility or modesty. He stands against most of those who trained him, with supposed comprehension that surpasses theirs, while not being nearly their equal scholastically, or spiritually.

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there. 🙂‍↔️

[@IDontLikeGenociders]

This is so relatable. I appreciate the way this conversation went informative and kind. It's a video that I keep in my works now, so I can share with others, because it's better articulated than what I can say. Thank you

[@michaelclarke1789]

Thank you !!! I've been a fan for years, and an Atheist for 40+ years, and this post answered so many question I had about you, your deconversion, and why you do "the work". So very interesting to hear it all directly from you and your larger perspectives on the topic of deconversion and why you do what you do. I especially liked the point made about Agnostic V. Atheist. Great point and caught me by surprise. Thank you for all that you do! Your books and your work have been an immense help in my own understanding of the church and its development, and the creation of the bible itself.

[@andrewmays3988]

Agnosticism is for people who wear blinders and atheism is for people who are blind, deaf and dumb!!! Look around you!!! What do your five senses tell you ? If you can come up with a better explanation than what you find in the Bible, let's hear it!!!!😇

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there. 🙂‍↔️

[@michaelclarke1789]

@@jingojingo1 So, your suggestion is that we dump one set of manuscripts that are derived from the illiterate mythology of goat herders and fishermen; people that did not know where the sun went at night; people that thought that gutting a goat would heal the sick or improve the harvest, in favor of another set of manuscripts that are also derived from the illiterate mythology of goat herders and fishermen? That about it? I have a better suggestion, how about YOU dump ALL of the mythology and wanna be prophets; your's their's, all of it, and join the real world with the rest of us? NO saviors or prophets required, no imaginary friends, just you and the world.

[@Templetonq]

There are people who devote their entire careers to the study of Greek Mythology, without for a moment thinking that Zeus is real. They just find it interesting.

[@chrismathis4162]

Yes, but it’s different when you are taught it is true from the time you are born from society and your own family.

[@Templetonq]

@@chrismathis4162 OK. I was explaining how people who don't believe in the Bible can be interested in the Bible.

[@topologyrob]

Anyone not interested in the bible has their head in the sand since you simply can’t have a clue about 2000 years of European and other history otherwise - but sadly we live in shallow and distracted times

[@Koshertits]

⁠@@TempletonqThe difference is that Greek mythology is dead like many other religions, the difference is that christianity and the other abrhamic religions have a foothold today and directly affect and dictatr how people live their lives today.

[@Templetonq]

@@Koshertits That's not my concern here. I'm saying it is possible to find an idea interesting without accepting it.

[@patcomerford5596]

In choosing to be an atheist over 40 years ago I freed myself from the legacy of thousand of years of fear as expressed in: 'if you don't believe you will go to hell'. As I journey through the last quarter of my life I still celebrate that freedom. Reading some of Prof. Ehrman's excellent books provided the academic context for my choice. Many congratulations on your new book, which I have ordered. A great upload.❤

[@christopherknight3737]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts about the distinction you make between atheism and agnosticism - it made a lot of sense to me!

[@tzimisce1753]

I grew up as a muslim, but I became agnostic recently. I feel more kinship with Bart than others, I can relate to the things he says. But I think I couldn't say I'm "agnostic atheist" or "agnostic theist", because I think both are equally possible judging by the arguments I've heard from both atheists and a deist-ish muslim sect (Asharis/Maturidis, they used to be mainstream in the muslim world before the 1990's, Ahmed Deedat was a Maturidi for example) which is sort of being persecuted by the Salafis (mainly proselytized by Saudi Arabia) over charges of disbelief for not taking everything literally and for using logic and philosophy. There are some cornerstone beliefs that Salafis hold with their Athari theology that is devastating for the faith of individual muslims, since it smuggled in a lot of contradictory beliefs that the average muslim didn't believe before. What made a good point for atheism is "the great silence" i.e. why the story never seems to continue after the prophets and at least one of the prophecies doesn't happen just to show everyone like a reminder that the rest will happen, and the second one is unfalsifiability when we make an excuse for every scenario, but we are very sceptical about opposing views. The deist position has a good argument in that if we break down the "self" to its essence (and they call that a soul), we're likely to believe that the essence of ourselves is an energy that stays inside of us, leading the aggregation of matter to the body, and that the energy leaves us when we decompose. And that since energy can't be destroyed, it just finds somewhere else to be, and that all energy comes from one source, and all life comes from an "all-father" singularity, and that all matter was made from the energy, and recycled into new forms. I don't like that atheists are so sceptical that they think a unicorn is the height of impossibility. It's just a horse with a horn on the head. Other ungulates do have horns, and why would it be so far-fetched to think that a subspecies of horse had that mutation to grow a single horn once upon a time. And on the religious side, I don't like the way people can't see test their own religion with the same tests they judge other religions, "the blinding" I call it. It's like a team sport, but the religions claim monopoly on reality, and if the religion is really in league with reality, it shouldn't need cheerleading. So I don't find that I fit into one nor the other. I just go about my life and figure I'll see what happens when I get there. It's hard to convince people one way or the other, so I don't bother with that either, everyone sort of has to walk their path alone, but might find each other at the end of it.

[@bharathdeva9407]

Freethinker is a better option.🤣

[@faiz.shamri]

Your ignorance about Islam lead you to become atheist

[@amoswittenbergsmusings]

@@bharathdeva9407 ... or at the very least: thinker.

[@trilithon108]

Yes, if religions are "reality" why the need to team sport reality, just live it. Liked that.

[@cipherklosenuf9242]

I appreciated your post. Are you familiar with ‘Apostate Aladdin” ? He is an agnostic of Muslim background. He has some videos I think you would really like. One of my favorite authors is a fellow named Tahir Shah, have you read him? He has published some travel books, quirky stuff, his background is Islamic, and his father was an author too. Anyway, he seems to love life and exploration of cultures and experiences. Again, thanks for your post! Cheers!

[@mildredmartinez8843]

This is an excellent video. The questions asked were superb and Bart's answers were hones, illuminating and in his usual humble style. Humor is not left out. But the seriousness of the topic is always on top. When I read Bart's books I questioned what type of individual he was. Would he be a dry, intellectual, overly serious type of person? I didn't think so but seeing him talk give him a dimension, that in spite of his deep intellectual knowledge, he comes out as a humble, affable man. One that is approachable, and not intimidating. I don't know how he managed to put all those things together but we are all the better for it. Thanks, Professor.

[@KperkIns54]

I had one question. If god created everything and god knows all then god knew his creation was screwed up. He is the author of imperfection. So why didn’t he fix his design? That question got me chastised in church.

[@Noseqquiero]

I’m sorry that got u chastised. I got the answer so long ago I’m amazed ppl still ask it!

[@cristianpopescu78]

Which church? You dont even know basic things of christianity. God never made "imperfections"At the end of the creation he said " everything was perfect"

[@christopherhamilton3621]

@@cristianpopescu78Allegedly….

[@cristianpopescu78]

@@christopherhamilton3621 All knowlege of humans race is just a kind of " allegedly" nothing more...The Idea God is a bad guy is just stupid ,nothing works that way in life.Hate destroy anything. But lets assume God is not perfect/ bad guy.What is a Demon ? ? A badass?

[@Moodboard39]

Devil is much nicer?

[@barryronellenfitch6250]

My experience, which appears to be similar to Bart's, is that we don't get to choose what we believe. We can only admit it (to ourselves and/or others). For example, can you choose to believe you are NOT reading this right now? Or that an elephant is reading it over your shoulder? Like our weight, our belief is the outcome of our past experiences and understandings. Our beliefs can change due to new experiences, realizations and so on, (i.e., learning) but at any point in time, it is what it is. So why should anyone be judged on their beliefs (right or wrong), any more than on their height? It is also worth noting that Truth doesn't care what we believe. Our belief (or not) in the Divine (whatever its nature) plays no role in its existence (or not).

[@danielhink844]

My favorite saying about "Truth", comes from the paraphrasing of John 13-87, in Jesus Crist Superstar. Pilate says, "we both have Truths, are mine the same as yours?". Of course, the answer is no. Some "beliefs" must be judged, good or bad, on the actual actions that those beliefs justify. "Holy" murder is one such action that comes to mine.

[@bubbercakes528]

You’re hitting on the difference between subjective and objective truth. That’s a land mine!

[@tkenglander6226]

Well said! If I had to have an elephant reading your comment over my shoulder, it would probably be Disney's Dumbo!! ;-)

[@rizdekd3912]

@@bubbercakes528 "You’re hitting on the difference between subjective and objective truth." What's an example of a 'subjective' truth?

[@dewardroy6531]

Religion

[@toddaop9103]

Wow! I’ve organically come to the same place as Dr. Ehrman. His naming of humility in Agnosticism is so spot on.

[@thelostone6981]

My partner works at a children’s hospital and there is a morgue there because kids die each and every day. That is a very sobering thing, but it speaks to Dr Erhman’s problem of suffering and I hate that this is the case. Even with our advancements in medicine, we just can’t save children… But one of the most disgusting things ever said to me, by a Christian, is that those kids DESERVED it because they were sinners. So if I grant that this guy’s god exists and that his god did this, then that bid is NOT worthy of worship. Especially if that man was his best representation.

[@Arven8]

Someone actually said that? Jesus, what an awful thing to say.

[@thelostone6981]

@@Arven8 Clearly someone who’s never had to bury a child I guess. But yeah, they did. I’m convinced that God takes on the characteristics of the belieber so that’s a person I wouldn’t want in my life. And luckily, it was a stranger so they’re not!

[@Arven8]

@@thelostone6981 Wow. I can't think of a less empathic, less compassionate, more cruel statement to make, especially about something so painful.

[@crede9427]

That is evidence of religion's evil, religion's poison

[@invaderhorizongreen8168]

I would ask them what sin did these kids POSSIBLY did not deserve death.

[@RubyNeumann]

"I don't belong here anymore." Wow. Thank you Bart for sharing again. I also have found myself investing more in my family and friends... that is community for me.

[@sanqingtemple6404]

Amen

[@SpaceCaseZ06]

My family became increasingly more toxic when I deconverted. I ended up at the local Unitarian Universalist Church. Humorously, the openly atheist segment of the church is the largest. I'm even an active participant in their Atheist/Humanist group meetings. The tradition still has members use the word god but their understanding of the word is open and flexible. Personal interpretations of the word god is open and flexible. In my case I still have anxiety over the word and cringe over the use of the word. I participate in choir now and the reverend and the music director give us allowances if the word is used. We recently performed during service the song *_"I Ain't Afraid"_* by Holly Near and I got a big kick out of it

[@modernrider1398]

I grew up very Christian from my parents. I too can't believe that a God can but chooses not to intervene when he really should. My mom who is %1000 Jesus follower has arthritis so bad she can barely walk anymore. It blows my mind that my step dad will bring up that one time he prayed over a dog for the dog to be healed but then not answer his prayer to save my mom. At some point we have to accept that we are on our own and yeah there might be an afterlife but as far as Christianity there's no way I can go back to believing it.

[@jeanne-marie8196]

I find it fascinating that Bart can laugh about all the vitriol that he knows is coming! Not taking harsh criticism to heart, is a life’s accomplishment in itself! As a person who can never completely turn off their thoughts (a.k.a: meditation hasn’t worked so far!), I find it comforting to think their is an afterlife so I can see my deceased family members again. My “heaven” includes pets! On an intellectual level, I don’t really think there is. I comfort myself with the truth that I don’t know, so it is still possible that I will. I understand how one can be both an atheist and an agnostic. Great explanation on reconciling these two concepts from Bart.

[@patrickvangelder3349]

my problem with the free will argument is that it only considers the side of the perpetrator never the side of the victim, the victim also has free will, meaning they don't want to suffer and this god apparently doesn't care because the perpetrator has a free will to commit harm

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there. 🙂‍↔️

[@daltonadams4672]

​@@jingojingo1It full of nonsense!

[@KOKAYI69]

The Solution to humanities' Good Health, Peace and shared.Prosperity is Caring, Sharing & Cooperation for the Good of AllPeople!

[@ddavidjeremy]

I just love these two. The honesty is refreshing.

[@Ejaezy]

The atonement is a huge thing. Considering that Jesus calls us to forgive each other as many times as possible and without condition, why couldn't he forgive us the same way. It's weird that an omni-benevolent god would have to sacrifice his own son to satiate his wrath...

[@515aleon]

Huge problem with it, imo. It shows who the character of god is, in their view anyway. I have no problem believing he would be a problem to Rome though (also resurrection-- look at all the other people allegedly resurrected including Mohammed-- was that true too??)

[@Moodboard39]

⁠muhammad is dead, wtf u getting u this from? He resurrected???

[@Moodboard39]

@@515aleonno witness

[@Moodboard39]

Wasn't wrath silly

[@upsidedown1972]

What is irritatingly charming is that believers think, each of them has the magic words that will magically return us to the faith. So, on the one hand, you have to kind of admire the dedication to their theism. On the other hand, it means they profoundly cannot comprehend the journey out.

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there. 🙂‍↔️

[@AndrewGonzalesArtistry]

Usually people leave one faith, only to join another. Many people leave Christianity and adopt the dogmas of atheism, which is the latest belief system. All should have the freedom to choose which belief system(s) they believe aligns with truth.

[@jingojingo1]

@@AndrewGonzalesArtistry As for the choosing you are correct there. That’s actually free will but a correct way to say it is free choice. As for other people changing religions you should rephrase it as other people looking for gods religion. If you believe in one god then there must be one true religion and that true religion is gods religion. In another words there has never been a period in human history without access to true religion. This is because the creator has told us that the guidance will come from him and who ever believes and does good will enter paradise and be saved from hellfire. The guidance comes in form of prophets and messengers send by creator to warn the people and deliver the message. The message is worship one god, don’t ascribe partners to him follow the messinger send and do good. Thats the message. The message is the same regardless of which prophet was send at particular time. The message is the same but the law altered from time to time accordingly. Some laws from god were limited to certain nations only to be changed by allowing it later on. That true religion islam. Islam always was always is and always will be. All attempts by people to switch between religions is their quest to find islam. As for those who Allah guides they enter Islam and others are just misguided. Therefore the true religion is Islam.

[@upsidedown1972]

@@AndrewGonzalesArtistry I adopted the dogmas of atheism early on. But that was because I was still programmed to respond to dogma. Because of the remaining epistemic architecture of religion. Now I have eschewed even that. I am dogmatic in no ways. Sure, your god could be real. There is however, literally zero falsifiable evidence. Ergo, it is of no use to me. No use in the sense that I don't have to do what you tell me, because god.

[@AndrewGonzalesArtistry]

@@upsidedown1972 “I don’t have to do what you tell me”. I’m not sure where this is coming from. How old are you to say such a random thing?

[@CK-dz8fo]

He is an amazing agnostic atheist! I am so trilled to find him.

[@SpaceCaseZ06]

I considered swallowing a live slug in order to become a _trilled_ atheist! 😜 It was before I decided to oppose animal cruelty but I did decide it would be better in butter 🧈 and garlic🧄 with a glass of wine 🍷, a baguette 🥖 and some cheese 🧀 I didn't have any of those things nearby

[@SpaceCaseZ06]

🖖

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there. 🙂‍↔️

[@johnpetkos5686]

This was the best episode so far. You should do more of this kind of personal stuff.

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there. 🙂‍↔️

[@heinzgassner1057]

When I was 6 years old, I crawled underneath the sink in our bathroom for having some kind of protection while doing a big experiment: I shouted: ‘God, you a*hole’, for finding out if lightening and thunder will come down on me. Nothing happened and I knew, that this kind of ‘God’ does not exist. Later I got deeply into physics and learned a lot about the thoughts of a Niels Bohr, Werner Schrödinger and Wolfgang Pauli (and his friendship with Carl Gustav Jung). These Gentlemen discovered that space, time and matter cannot be foundational, getting more and more convinced that there is an underlying reality, which can only be researched by entering ‘first person science’. The only fact we really know is ‘I am conscious’ and ‘ I am present’. This journey of ‘self’ inquiry leads to amazing discoveries, which cannot be communicated with words. Above all stands, how the Buddha has put it: If your realizations do not lead to more compassion and love, you have made a wrong turn in your inner journey. Once a glance of this underlying reality has been experienced, this entire mess of words, scriptures and concepts represented by what we call religions clears up. The miracle of non-duality can be experienced and understood - and this is most likely what all those great beings like the Buddha, Jesus and many more were trying to share.

[@markhamstra1083]

There was a time when I liked to call myself an agnostic agnostic - a state of not knowing whether it is possible to know with certainty (about a great many things.) Now I can be happy with Bart’s agnostic atheist label.

[@nasonguy]

Yeah, well I don't think you can know whether or not it is knowable if god is ultimately a determinable reality. I'm an AAAgnostic.

[@songsmithy07]

I prefer "non-theist."

[@frankiewally1891]

agnostic agnostic really deep shit of ignorance..

[@Lisa85]

When I was in my early 20s I watched Barts great courses series - I didn’t know it then but I’ve now traced back my first “cracks in my faith” to the series. It’s was 10+ years before I fully deconverted. During that time I’d often ponder what I had learn and try to make it fit but it never did.

[@colinmurphy439]

James white completely destroyed Bart Ehrman in a live fire debate! That will be the worse ever thing you did, deconverting from Jesus! V Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

[@philb5]

@@colinmurphy439 The problem I’m having is this. I have always been a God-fearing man and a believer in Jesus BUT not all of the scriptures. I have always been confused with certain verses, both in the old and New Testament’s. But I know there is something missing in my soul ( fulfillment ). So I have plunged headlong into the study of the Bible to try to reach enlightenment and get closer to God but the more I have studied it appears that I have gotten further away from him .

[@colinmurphy439]

@@philb5 If you are sincere wanting to be saved, just call upon the name of the Lord.

[@philb5]

@@colinmurphy439 Thank you for your response but I have been sincere for 45 years and I have knocked, seek and asked with no response that I am aware of. I guess I will just continue on the path. Thanks

[@topologyrob]

@@philb5 keep going - many of us outgrow atheism when we are ready. So many of my friends have done so. I did ten years ago after 20 years in atheism

[@r.e.jr.1152]

It is sad to hear about Bart's struggle with faith. In his conversation he never mentions any time when God moved in his life. Christians not only experience a true salvation, but also continue having more moments where God confirms his word. This is missing in his life. I would like to know, what is Bart's view of the afterlife? What is his hope?

[@geico1975]

Suffering is problematic and not only on the planet Earth level, but also an individual level, which bothers me the most.

[@jdewit8148]

Christian Gnosticism can give the answers.

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there. 🙂‍↔️

[@daltonadams4672]

​@@jingojingo1Morre nonsense!

[@jingojingo1]

@@daltonadams4672 ??? Why

[@food4thort]

Brilliant. It makes me realise why many believers who have a minimal doctrinal and historical knowledge of Christianity, depend so much on churches to re-enforce their beliefs (and thereby allay their fears of divine wrath).

[@mohabdul1]

The Quran question to the atheist: "Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators?" Quran:52:35

[@iam604]

Atheist to the Quran: We all were created by our parents who also were created by their parents who also was created by their parents and so on. Claiming to know what started all of this requires evidence and not just a story book.

[@tiedeman39]

Why isn't "I don't know" acceptable?

[@michaelreddy4697]

I grew up in an Catholic Family and we had a wonderful and learned Parish Priest who was open to my questions about G-d and Faith. He loaned me books from both Christian and non Christian authors and encouraged me to study other faith traditions as well. This has lead to a life long interest in religion even though I stopped going to Mass at 15 and left the Faith entirely a few years later.

[@discutiibiblice]

"G-d" instead of "God"? Nice try, Moshe. You're not a Catholic and never been one. You're a Jew and push unto others atheism. Get a life.

[@janlemasters7344]

I so appreciate your sharing your faith journey and decision to become an agnostic and atheist. I’ve listened to your podcasts, read most of your books and taken your courses both online and via The Great Courses. I am looking forward to attending your presentation at Blue Ridge Bookstore on April 14. Your books and courses have reshaped my thoughts on Christianity and religion.

[@inCHRiSTiamFREE]

Why do people always point to the here and now with “Where was God”? Doesn’t He promise eternal life? What is this life we live in the physical right now compared to eternity in Spirit?

[@khaledadams4329]

My goodness, I enjoy every one of your videos Bart, especially those with Megan. You two compliment each other very well. Just a quick comment from a Baha'i perspective... I like the analogy of comparing life to a sort of spiritual incubator, through which our actions and experiences help develop our spiritual being, similar to our physical being requiring a period of development before birth. The Baha'i writings seem to indicate suffering, and personal sacrifice through devotion as an important part of spiritual growth. I am certainly not trying to change your opinion, I admire your honesty so much and look forward to hearing more of what you have to share.

[@topologyrob]

Love the Baha’is

[@wingedlion17]

Your work is appreciated

[@edswails7916]

Well said Dr. Ehrman . Thank you for your learning , teaching , and caring . You rock ! 💥

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there. 🙂‍↔️

[@JayBandersnatch]

Many things contributed to my deconstruction, the first was there realization that the god character of the OT didn't match with the one in the NT. It wasn't until years later though that I discovered that the Marcionites had the same thought. Also the whole idea that there reason there's suffering is that god allows free will... this tells me that god is concerned more for the allowance of Joe the Killers free will to murder Suzie, than he cares for Suzie's right to stay alive. Imagine walking past a violent crime and thinking to yourself "well I could stop this from happening, but I wouldn't want to remove the free will of the criminal", how utterly monstrous!

[@ronaldlindeman6136]

Or consider that Jesus, if a God, would have known all ways to prevent disease. Look up Jesus and Disciples did not have to wash hands before meals. Wouldn't a God know about microorganisms and the importance of cleanliness around food. But Jesus turns it into a Religious Jewish not understanding problem. What about the Bubonic Plague in Europe that killed 1/3rd of the population. Bubonic Plague is controlled by modern sanitation techniques and pest control. Was that to much for Jesus to explain to the people of Europe?

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

Well... not if you want a happy ending 😆 to the Bible ✝️ anyway

[@lbamusic]

Jbandersnatch.. God is Sovereign..there is limited free will and even that little bit, is restricted by God.

[@daniellebrandon4207]

You may want to understand that the God in the Old Testament is Yahweh. He still exists today and He was existing during the time of the New Testament, in fact if Yahweh didn't exist then Jesus wouldn't of been raised from the dead. Long story short, Jesus is not Yahweh, Jesus is Yahweh's Son. As far as pain and suffering goes, Free will is not God's explanation as to why there is pain and suffering in the world nor any other human philosophical explanation. Perhaps our expectations that our lives should be always pleasant and comfortable is the problem. Perhaps letting go of the illusion of a utopia might do us some good. There has never been any documented time on earth where there has been such a state. In fact it was a made up concept by an author. Pain and suffering are a fact of life on Earth and always will be . It spares no one and nothing. The quicker we get on board with this idea and stop trying to chase a fantasy, the better things will get.

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

@@lbamusic At least you admit free will is limited ⛓. Progress.

[@bigjohnboy5707]

22:00 thank you my friend, well put, and most of all extremely helpful.

[@Charles-jj2su]

Our journeys are somewhat the opposite. I was an antitheist at one point, but my studies of the Bible and the history of Christianity (which included several of your books and many lectures and debates!) led me to convert to Catholicism. Regardless of that, one must stand against fundamentalism, as it’s a dangerous force for evil that threatens separation of church and state and the individual person, who should be free to inquire and discover and make decisions for themselves, even if it offends the deeply held religious convictions of others.

[@topologyrob]

I also outgrew atheism thank God

[@kurman4749]

I find Bart Ehrman a truly fascinating man. I've read a few of his books, but this is the first time I've actually watched any podcasts or videos on KZbin

[@skat1140]

He isn't just a good scholar, he is a manifestly good person, and this goodness and morality resonates throughout all his broadcasts. It's kind of puzzling to contrast him with any pastor you might see in the media, who seem to uniformly radiate arrogance, deceit, ignorance, hatred with slickness of a telemarketer. I will never understand the adherents of the latter type; the messenger alone should be undermining the message.

[@coreyham3753]

@@skat1140 Right on. It is a disturbing experience to see and hear some of these so called evangelical preachers, like Paula White and others, who rant and rave about their twisted views on religion and exhortations to their followers.

[@lynnej.9357]

I also left an excellent church community. Such wonderful people there.

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there. 🙂‍↔️

[@EvaLasta]

Respect to him. The deconditioning from the religious fear instilled in us as developing kids makes it really difficult. It took me many years myself as well as going back and forth a couple of times even.

[@bicstic8]

Yup, same here. It frustrates me to no end seeing it happen to children nowadays.

[@darz_k.]

36:53 ..after talking about being an agnostic athiest for the duration of the talk - you thank God?!

[@Ravyne]

So glad your book is out Bart! I just purchased the audio version. Can't wait to listen to it.

[@jdewit8148]

What a wonderful podcast. I can't get enough.

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there. 🙂‍↔️

[@baizhanghuaihai2298]

As somebody who has never had to deal with this experience, it is very interesting to hear about it from this perspective. I have never been a believer and wasn’t raised that way, so it has always seemed very confusing to me why changing your mind on these things would be such a big deal. I still don’t quite get it, but I can understand that some people are raised to feel SO STRONGLY about these things. I have encountered many Christians throughout my life, who have tried very hard to convince me to believe as they do, and what I always find most fascinating, is that they rarely seem to understand that I could never accept their worldview because the concerns they were raised to have are not the ones I was raised to have, and I still don’t see them as concerns, so I would never have their paradigm. Like, the whole concept of a soul literally still makes absolutely no sense to me, or why a person would even be concerned with it.

[@GeoPePeTto]

I was raised in east Europe so in an orthodox house. They made me say a prayer every day and go to church with the class, but I don’t remember them being very overly religious. I think my parents didn’t cared enough to understand what the religion meant or why if god is real. It seemed more like a cultural thing for them with a little fear of hell. But as I was growing up, the most problematic thing for me was that I saw this worshiping and going to church too humiliating for me. Felt like a dog groveling to my master every time I had to pray or go to church. They even tell you we are the sheep and god is the shepherd. That never sat well with me. Why? Why would we humiliate ourselves so much. I remember when we would go on holiday, siting in the backseat of the car, absolutely every time we passed a church I did a cross with my hands. My parents were so proud of me. Such a good dog I was.

[@russellmiles2861]

Yes, I had a similar upbringing. It never occurred to me to that there was a Flood, God or resurrections, etc They were just folk stories. I wonder if folk didn't watch TV talk with friends and relatives, go to school. How could they be so insular? I doubt they believed so much as wanted to please family. I don't imagine they ever thought much about these things.

[@GeoPePeTto]

@@russellmiles2861 When your young you don’t question anything. I don’t think I even knew the story about the flood before I started having doubts. My first doubts were when we went past a church from a different sect of orthodox Christianity. Then I started with questions and found out there’s more than 1 religion. I went whaaaat? Ohhh well damn. Let’s find out more then shall we. Soon I found enough. I think even George Carlin helped me a little. Not sure as I have a very bad memory.

[@glenliesegang233]

Faith is less about intellect than the choice to decide if rational materialism explains all of reality, or whether there is "something more." I am sorry that the intellectual arguments against faith, God, soul, doctrine, denominations all take so outweigh for somany the positive aspects of faith: hope, comfort of ritual and holiday, c ommunity, common stories which bind societies and a common morality. Without faiths, the numinous, the existence of the soul, the Holy, only Science and the Human is glorified and made the pinnacle of holiness. Neitzsche described the consequences of killing God. Bart has killed God for himself, and is helping many others "free themselves" from irrationality, fear of hell, from the shackles of religion. The freedom from dogmatic, rigid, and fundamentalist faiths which abuse power and bring fear of hell naturally create pain sinsd suffering, the freedom from the shackles of which is both understandable, and welcomed by those in chains. But the freedom to "be yourself" is not the same freedom as found in Christ. The freest "self" is still controlled by the evolutionary, societal, and ego-based forces which motivate us. Deep self-reflection and meditation may help us perceive the patterns which control us, but no matter what self-help, self-hypnosis, or affirmations you repeat thousands of times, you are still your "selfish," self. Humanism says humans are glorious and moral beings, every aspect of which is to be celebrated, that humans have the wisdom to decide on humanity's future. Also, that it is every person's birthright to celebrate all aspects of themselves, to have the complete freedom to decide what is best for themselves, and decide their own standard of morality. Inner city murder rates by gun violence, drug cartels, the Putins, and previous Hitlers, Stalins, Pol Pots of this world, the Harvey Weinsteins, and the bottomless pit of destructive pursuit of sexual pleasure all point against humanity's better angels are enough. Jesus described the utterly depraved condition of the deepest parts of ourselves and far too many humanists address this, nor have a solution to combat them. If the stories within Christianity and the Bible are not fully logical, the proof of Christ's very existence and reliability of his followers are questionable, then the death of faith is a natural consequence when materialism is the world-view. Hostile atheists call the God of the Bible a hideous, genocidal, sadistic murderer. But, as Dostoyevsky posited, that viewpoint does not bring anything positive into the world. Each person's viewpoint governs what they see. And they naturally assume they see the big picture.. But what no one can everything clearly, each of us see only a small part of all which exists. For me, Einstein's statement captures it best: "There are only 2 ways to live: First, as if everything is a miracle, or as if nothing is. No God, no ultimate meaning. To live with no ultimate meaning may feel like freedom, but if really faced and accepted honestly, fully, and completely, as did Camus , Sartre, and Neitzsche is to live suspended over the terrible abyss of a cruel, uncaring, and ultimately meaningless reality. If this is the truth I run from "because I lack the courage to accept the abyss by standing on, not clinging to, my faith, then I am in better overall health, with greater physiologic and psychological well-being, surrounded by my church family, friends, and all of the postitve benefits Christianity has brought to Western civilization. I do not welcome God's death, nor the Post-Modern free-fall without bottom. Not for me, my children, all future generations or for the West. China has no need for its peoples to have a faith other than humanism and patriotism, and the individualism Christianity brought to the Western Enlightenment, is an absolute threat to the Party's control. As the new world model, free from Transcendent beliefs, humanity should look forward to their social control and disregard for human rights as the new model for human progress.. human rights will now be defined by the State, ecause there are none except what some group decide applies to its members.

[@GeoPePeTto]

@@glenliesegang233 Is there any of the gods that people have invented over the past millennia that you could not believe in with faith? You have a problem with atheists, but no problem with the other religions that by their contrary beliefs to yours exclude the existence of your god. Or your ok that they use faith just as you and don’t mind that they indirectly proclaim that your god doesn’t exist, which is a step above atheist who just don’t believe your claims.

[@bekkers29]

My own deconversion was similar, and am also now an agnostic atheist. There are specific gods that I can state with certainly do not exist due to various logical inconsistencies, but I cannot possibly know for a fact that no gods exist. I don't believe that any do, but I can't claim to have knowledge that I don't have.

[@brisadelcastillo2840]

Look up “THE CRUCIFIX FISH - WHAT THE CRUCIFIX FISH REVEALS”

[@hashamkhan9517]

Read Quran

[@bekkers29]

@@hashamkhan9517 no thanks. I would rather read nearly anything else.

[@hashamkhan9517]

@@bekkers29 Ok then you yourself is to blame on the day of jughment .nothing else . Give it a read

[@bekkers29]

@@hashamkhan9517 I've already read enough mythology for one lifetime, thanks. I seriously don't need to read more of it.

[@Roberto92001]

My de-conversion was that I no longer believed that going to church had anything to do with my salvation. I just wanted to free myself from the endless boring repetitive pulpit preaching. The sin living in us is the problem, not some out of line biblical text that can not be explained.

[@CCCBeaumont]

Huh?

[@crystalleewatson9888]

growing up completely non religious, my grandparents used to do things for community that are fading if not already gone and it's too bad. There were a lot of wonderful organizations that are dwindling, like the Elks or Lions, that picked a charity & fundraised around it, but also were advocates and got in some partying too in their local halls!

[@deewesthill1213]

If churches were to get involved in more than trying to get more converts, such as helping to rescue animals in need or cleaning up toxic waste in their surrounding neighborhoods, they might find their congregations increasing.

[@topologyrob]

@@deewesthill1213 they do all of that

[@deewesthill1213]

@@topologyrob Which churches do you mean by "they"?

[@topologyrob]

@@deewesthill1213 the Uniting Church in Australia for one

[@deewesthill1213]

@@topologyrob What does that church do? Most churches don't do such good community work. They just want to get more paying customers! 🙄😇

[@pweetypoo]

17:30 Wow, it is possible to have free-will and no suffering.

[@thomasd2444]

25:59 - Point : Not de-convert mission 26:29 - Why [ humans - who , what , where , when , WHY , & how ] 27:13 - It [ Christian-ity ] remains hugely interesting to me 27:25 - [ Human history's records mention this Christianity thing, in a few places ]

[@martinthomas4211]

Faith is a impressive and occasionally compelling discourse. People of faith are often genuine and sincere. I have never had that capacity. From the beginning of my awareness of the Christian story, I had doubts. I kept on seeing the joints, the articulations of story, as a child I thought that too many elements were seemingly more made up than true. The whole supernatural element which underpins so many of the narratives, not least the Jesus narrative, seemed inauthentic, purposeful only in navigating the narrative itself. Convenient unprovable events to allow the story to be told. So as a child I increasingly learned to question, and certainly since my first degree I have no need of faith, but I do require rationality, logic, reason and accountability. I intellectually explore knowledge, its structures, its impact, and those who attempt to control knowledge. Therefore the tireless work of Dr Erhman provides me with incisive and compelling analysis of the historical and cultural contexts which gave rise to the Christian phenomena. I am glad I discovered his work, he is a truly impressive scholar.

[@2fast2block]

"The whole supernatural element which underpins so many of the narratives" Come on, you're just some tiny brain hoping people will see you as some intellectual. The 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. It is clear creation had to be done supernaturally yet it is still denied because people are just too proud to accept that, among other things.

[@captaincatchy]

So much good stuff here. My response to the argument that "God doesn't want robots, so he gives us free will" is "And why is that better than everyone being happy?"

[@JimmieBrown-sg8fq]

There is a theory in quantum mechanics called super determination that at its root states everything is predetermined starting from the big bang so there is no such thing as free will per the theory.

[@lichensinspace]

For myself I have found my choir (which is over 100 people) has given me much of what I had formerly with my Church. So if you enjoy singing that can be a great option. It was especially helpful when I moved to a new city.

[@MH55YT]

I've followed Bart on KZbin for a couple years and find him fascinating and knowledgeable. From this video, it appears my faith closely mirrors his. However, I'm sure I'm not as intelligent. Listening to Bart's journey helped me understand his stance on many KZbin topics. Thanks for this video.

[@phogue1]

The fact that Bart Ehrman struggled with many of the same things I went through when I moved into that same atheist/agnostic camp 15 or so years ago is genuinely comforting. I have thought quite a bit about that loss of community when you are no longer a church goer. The biggest struggle I have had, and it continues to this day, is having to justify my separation from theism, especially when I don’t expect others to fall in line with my position. My years of searching and self-debate and my ultimate decision to no longer be a believer in God was difficult and stressful and has important meaning to my life. My lack of belief in a supernatural being is as important to me as faith is to a believer.

[@origenjerome8031]

To be fair, everything you know about God is just based on writings of stories written by humans. God NEVER wrote anything at all. ZERO.

[@cipherklosenuf9242]

Hi Paul. Well said. I understand every phrase and would say the same thing of myself. I hope you are willing to chat. I was raised in a conservative Lutheran denomination that is basically fundamentalist and gradually moved to more liberal churches over several years. Are you involved in an online community? I’ve thought about it. I’m interested in ‘Braver Angels’ which creates opportunities for Americans to have dialogue across the ideological and cultural divides. I’m wondering if atheism has also influenced your ideology? I was raised conservative, becoming liberal as an adult, this is associated with the theological conclusions I’ve arrived at. Anyway, thanks, and I hope you are well! Cheers!

[@brisadelcastillo2840]

Look up “THE CRUCIFIX FISH - WHAT THE CRUCIFIX FISH REVEALS”

[@grayaj23]

I have a somewhat inverse belief arc. I was for a long time an angry atheist. Or I pretended to be at least. I can't remember why I felt so pushed toward opposing other peoples' beliefs. It wasn't upbringing -- my family are all atheists, and that includes my grandparents who were born in the early 20th C. I didn't have to deconvert. in my 20s i just started to realize that existence is complicated and for most of us it doesn't come with instructions. If you've found something that makes sense of it all, I'm happy for you -- as long as you afford me the same courtesy. I still rankle at proselytizers who think that their faith and beliefs justify their denial of my beliefs -- their decisions about morality justify their condemnation of mine. That said, two of my greatest friends are evangelical fundamentalists. We've had some epic conversations, but managed never to offend each other. I used to be keen on "debate", but I realized that it's mostly just trying to outwit the other person. It doesn't actually "move the needle" for either person. I won't debate you, but I'm happy to understand your beliefs and happy to explain mine.

[@kennethstewart7722]

at 23:06 a notion of "militant agnostic"... reminds me of a bumper sticker: Militant Agnostic: I don't know and neither do you

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there. 🙂‍↔️

[@markdoldon8852]

I wasn't aware that Dr Erhman had adjusted his belief claim to call himself agnostic AND ATHEIST for a long time he's used agnostic, but declined to admit his obvious atheism. Good for him, since for a non believer, it's the honest definition. His description is bang on. My personal opinion is that virtually All intellectually honest people are agnostic.

[@moodyrick8503]

Someone who claims to not believe, *"because they can't know if there is a God",* (agnostic) is by definition _"without belief"._ And one who is, _"without belief in a God"_ is an atheist. _Weather they choose to call themselves "atheist or not or not", is secondary._ (some refuse to use the "atheist label" because of it's _"social stigma")_

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

@@moodyrick8503 What If they don’t know 💡/ have the self awareness to know 💡 that X thing they believe in is definitionally a God 🕺💡?

[@Ken_Scaletta]

Agnosticism is the position that you cannot PROVE whether God exists. You can be both agnostic and theistic or atheistic. If you believe in God but think it has to be taken on faith, you are an agnostic theist. This is also called Fideism. Atheism is simply an absence of theistic belief, it does not necessarily mean a positive belief that gods don't exist. If you have no belief that gods exist but don't think it's possible to prove that they don't, that is an agnostic weak atheism. That is me. Strong atheism means you think gods definitely don't exist. If you think you can prove gods don't exist, that gnostic atheism. What CAN be said, without the slightest bit of doubt, is that no one can show any evidence or necessity for any gods. Even weak atheism is kind of a cop out. Nobody thinks there even MIGHT be a Marduk. You can't prove leprechauns don't exist. But we can say that in the history of the universe, no one has ever produced evidence for anything supernatural.

[@moodyrick8503]

@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana I'm not sure what you're asking or saying ? _Please clarify_

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

@@moodyrick8503 Say Human X believes 🙏 in the Rick, the Beaver 🦫. They believe Rick, the Beaver 🦫 can do anything in your wildest dreams, can easily figure out anything, and is a hyperdimensional entity who can go through all possible realities in hyperspace and can sense with his tentacles anything, anywhere. But human X says they do not believe in a God 💃🤖.

[@MrsSyamoneVlogs]

Don’t fall out of faith because of what one man says about his experience, you talk to God, and figure it out, the God I walk with is awesome God, He is with me, he dwells in me, he is the God who heals, the God who strengthens me, the Bible is truth weather you like it or not, one thing I love about God is he doesn’t change, He is for you.

[@edwinlucianofrias1643]

The gods I drive with are better than your one god. Whether you like it or not, more is better. There are female gods, and male gods, and child-like gods and they do change which is why they are get better and better every day. Ironically, there are more people today who believe in your god than mine and it's based on one man's (Saul of Tarsus) experience!

[@bwillpdx]

I'd love to hear a conversation with you and Jordan Peterson. I think it would be both lively, informative, and respectful.

[@TheScotsalan]

If you spent your life in a christian culture, leaving it can be the hardest, lonliest experiernce one can go thro.

[@HamidTursunov]

You should go on to perfection leaving behind the teaching about Jesus Christ, pbuh

[@travis1240]

It's lonely but worth it to rid your mind of the cognitive dissonance that Christianity causes in a thinking person.

[@HamidTursunov]

@NOTAN EMOPROG If someone believes in God, but he or she understands that the Bibles have been changed, have errors and contradictions and even false verses, then it's clear that the Bibles are Word of God. But if there is God, then there must be another book, unchanged, well preserved and protected, which is Word of God because God wouldn't leave His creations without His Word, His instructions and His Laws. If I had an honor to speak with this professor whose knowledge about the Bibles is deep and profound, I would humbly advise him to think of what I have said above.

[@JayBandersnatch]

​@@HamidTursunov here's a question from an non academic ex-Christian.. You claim that if there is a god then there must also be a book... please justify the necessity of there being a book for a God to exist. A Deistic god could have created the universe and choose not to provide evidence, correct?

[@HamidTursunov]

@JayBandersnatch when humans produce TVs, cars, radios, notebooks, vacuum cleaners, etc., they provide manuals, don't they If Creator creates His creations, there must be some rules and laws according to which creations, human beings, should live, mustn't there? If you have a child who doesn't know a thing about this world of ours, you give/tell your child certain rules and even laws according to which your child must live. Almighty God is the Wisest, most Merciful and Just, and He is our Supreme Judge, so before judging us, He should give us laws and rules, explain to us what is good and what is bad, what is right and what is wrong.

[@mentordepret757]

Another extremely interesting discussion!

[@tomnanD3]

I'm not 100% sure there is no creator/God. I'm 99.9% sure.

[@G_Demolished]

As sure as I am that there are no unicorns.

[@topologyrob]

It’s curious how we apes delude ourselves into such atheistic nonsense

[@jingojingo1]

Read the Quran its all there. 🙂‍↔️ Also millions are 100% sure

[@HPLeft]

Love your courses and books, Bart. They help me to better understand why I have become estranged from the faith tradition of youth, Catholicism. I also find that in uncovering the intellectual gaps in the once dominant Christian narrative, it allows for the potential flowering of other spiritual narratives, including narratives that have yet to be written. For instance, what changed my view of reality in a big way 40 years ago was my discovery of the yogic / Vedic tradition, which opened my mind to exploration of multi-cultural expressions of spirituality, both ancient and modern. I describe myself today as a Contemporary Deist, which is to say a person who believes there is likely a greater creative force behind the universe - but that this force is almost completely beyond current human understanding. Hence, the best way to understand the nature of God, or the Goddess, or It, going forward, is to marry a study of science and comparative spirituality (both ancient and modern). As I like to phrase it, we all appear to live on the third planet revolving around a star, which is but one of hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy, which itself is one of hundreds of billions of galaxies in our universe. I can't know if a Jesus of Nazareth rose from the dead but I do know that what people took for his teachings rose from the dead - and those core teachings, to this day, tend to be consistent with the core teachings of the great sages of all defensible planetary spiritual traditions. As to the always vexing problem of evil, the Vedic and Buddhist traditions would view suffering through the lens of karma - an approach which strikes me as fitting nicely within the framework of modern 'simulation theory' (or the notion that the universe itself is information-based, and that what we perceive as physical reality may turn out to be something far less substantial than what we imagine it to be). From this perspective, the challenge that evil and suffering present is how we choose to react to it, both in accepting those things we cannot change and actively seeking to change those things in the world that we can within the framework of the experiment.

[@knobend]

I'm glad you covered the question of why you continue to teach the topic. I had a situation where i left a faith based group after 11 years and it left a hole. I still think about their belief system despite not believing. I tend to think that this is because part of me still hasn't let go. I don't think, (i hope i haven't) reached the conclusion of my belief/non belief. Ironically despite not having faith in gods, i don't have much in humanity so life is quite hard. I can see how faith can help with depression for example.

[@grahambell9426]

As an atheist for 46 years and then converted by the witnessing of many unexplainable miracles that saved my life, but more importantly the lives of my children, I'm not surprised this man lost his faith. Fact is, modern Christianity has little to do with the truth or God. The first church I went into after waking up, I realised it was just a weekly motivational session and the bible was treated as a fashion accessory. When I asked the pastor why he was lying he told me if he told the truth he'd lose half his congregation and his job!!! Most pastors only preach what their paying audience wants to hear. It is ridiculous that churches teach that Jesus, the Son of God was sent down to be brutally tortured and crucified as the sacrifice for mans' sins. Firstly, the Almighty God does NOT accept human sacrifices for sin atonement. And secondly, the sacrifices have to be carried out by a Priest, not Roman soldiers - it's ridiculous and insulting to our heavenly Father and Jesus. It didn't happen for that reason. Jesus came down fully aware He'd be murdered, that was prophesied, but His murder as an innocent man - sinless - qualified Him to be our perfect HIGH PRIEST in heaven to atone for our sin. So this poor man has lost his faith in the system.... basically he was involved in a man-made hotch-potch of Roman Catholicism and paganism. He is a victim of programming and brain washing by the false prophets Jesus warned would come. God says come out of her my people. God is talking about Babylon - the mainstream Christianity- Catholicism protestantism etc. It's sad. I have heard hundreds of Christians who say they have never seen a miracle..... guess what.... they are NOT obeying His laws! If you love God obey His Laws. They are not burdensome. Start with taking a day off work to rest with Him on the Sabbath- not Sunday- that's pagan sun worship day.

[@Lanearndt]

And God has very little to do with the Truth!

[@caiqueportolira]

Alright you caught my attention. What must I do to be saved? Where can I read good stuff about this?

[@nickb7012]

And everyone clapped