Batoning Is Stupid Response to Comments & Challenge

[@kbbjedi]

Been making fires since I was a Boy Scout, and honestly I never seen or heard of batoning until I started watching KZbin videos a few years ago.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

It is a new fad. I've never seen it in any of my survival books (and I have books from the 1800s!), military handbooks and manuals, my grandparents and the rest of their tribe (Cherokee and Lumbe) never batoned firewood, I've never seen anyone do it that is a real woodsman or bushcrafter. It's a new trendy fad and unfortunately tv personalities like Canterbury or Lundin have said batoning is ok and useful, so people believe it.

[@trollpoetlaureate1953]

This guy ,Blue Fisherman said it best '' It became a sport' in which the athletes get sponsorships and free gear

[@svent1000]

Hello. I'm a norwegian. I'm 48year. I have lived my total life with hunting, fishing, camping, mushing (mushing dogs), skiing crosscountry and downhill, I been climbing. Most of my friends are people used to nature. We have 6 months of winter here, and the summer is rainy. I have never before I entered youtube, seen somone batonimg a knife. Its plain stupid. It takes to much of and effort, compares to other metods of building fire. I came across the fenomenon when I was looking at rewieves of knifes. Pocketknifes more spesific. I make knifes and axes myself so I only bye foldingknifes. Looking at people talking about beating there knifes with a stick in order to surviv really make me laugh out loud. You do not survive a situation by destroying your most basic tool. That is plain stupid. I almost never splitt wood to make a fire in the woods. I have to much skill to be wasting my time with doing that. I find branshes to break, normally on trees standing. The bottom branshes on pinetree is almost always dry, and they burn without much smoke. So its comfortly. To start a fire, I do not make feathersticks. I find a root of a pine, called fatwood, and carv some pieses, or- I use my sharp unbeaten knife, often a foldingknife, to take the white of a birch, and use that to lit the fire. Which normally is thin branshes of pine. Or in the moutain, the fresh thin branshes of birch. It will burn, allways. Splitting wood in the forest, is a waist of time. This is how most of us people in norway would do it, in a subarctic inviroment. Like Canada.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Thanks for watching in Norway! Nope, we don't believe in batoning knives. It really is a fad on KZbin and unfortunately people think it is the right way to treat your survival tool. That's ok, Stupid will get weeded out in a SHTF scenario when they break their knife batoning wood.

[@tkimball87]

I've never seen your channel before, but I love your explanations and the way that you defend your stance with logic instead of just opinion. Kudos.

[@jasonmohning1708]

You didn't sound arrogant, you sounded more like frustratedly-confused. Being that I have no survival/prepper/bushman skills whatsoever, I appreciated the demonstration with the field crafted wedge. Because of that demo, I won't be foolish enough to baton a piece of wood for even the first time and thus break my key survival tool for the first time. Thanks, and keep up the good content.

[@JimmyGunXD556]

I have a question. I substituted a hatchet for a saw growing up following Ray Mears. The reason is I could sharpen the hatchet in the field and wasn't sure what the long term was for a saw.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

I do recommend a hatchet (might not have said it in the video, but I said it in the description and comments, sorry it wasn't in the vid), especially if you don't want to carry a heavy ax. You need a sharpening stone for your knife or hatchet. A saw- you can carry a smaller file to sharpen teeth with. The Silky saws are great, they have a different tooth-design than old style saws and they really chew wood up while holding their edge. Mears is a good guy, I followed John Lofty Wiseman myself.

[@patmickler1352]

At last, common sense. I have never understood this fascination with batoning. I would never jeopardize my knife in this fashion, although I carry a spare.

[@OOTurok]

I honestly could never find a practical use or need for batoning. In fact, I never heard of this technique until about 3 years ago, when I started watching bushcraft videos. Before that, I've always used an axe, or made a wooden wedge to split wood... in the woods. I've started plenty of fires in the cold, the wet, the cold & wet... & not once, ever batoned anything, or made feather sticks. I have practiced these techniques, because I felt maybe there is a scenario I can't imagine where they would be... but I still never faced such a scenario.

[@midmojimmy]

Well said Mike, I agree with your stance on batoning with a knife. I have never been in a situation where I have ever needed to split wood with my knife. Keep up the good work my friend!

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Me neither. Spent most of my life out in the woods, training, camping, hunting, fishing, trapping, etc. Never had to baton wood yet to start a fire. I've batoned small sticks to make fishing gigs and spears, but never had to chop up a log for firewood lol.

[@midmojimmy]

Same, I grew up in the woods, learned how to trap from all the old timers, bushcrafters etc... They depended on their knife and would never abuse a knife like that. They used primitive methods that still reign supreme vs the modern day stuff some try to teach.

[@draconicdust3435]

SchoolOf SelfReliance batoning saves energy so you can do more work

[@draconicdust3435]

Robert Williamson after i did some more of my own reasearch i found that it was bad also tested it for my self the knife shadered

[@draconicdust3435]

Robert Williamson nope not at all i just bought a 25 dollar knife

[@1crimm]

I never had to baton wood ever.. I just grab downed limbs and break them with my hands and snap it to get it processed enough to start a fire. When i did ever split wood it was with a hatchet. I always assumed batoning wood was just something that people did just to be bushcraft billy..let the fire do the work for u

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Same here bro! Never needed to do it.

[@AkiviriKatana]

Finally someone with some Goddamn sense.

[@davlinp2501]

If you can't find dry wood, (or dry enough) in a forest, if you need to cut wood into 16 inch pcs (like in your wood pile at home), then baton it into nice thin pcs, you probably shouldn't be in the dam woods to begin with at least by yourself. The forest provides all types of wood from grass and Small branches to full fallen trees, it's amazing how you can burn a big pc of wood into smaller pcs and then burn those too! Great job Mike.

[@arctodussimus6198]

I've been making fires with flint and steel since 1968 when I was in Cub Scouts. Been camping in the wilds hundreds of times over the last 50 years or so. I've spent weeks at a time hiking deep in the woods. I've made more fires just in the rain and snow than most people make during their entire lives. I have never batonned a piece of wood with a knife...

[@markteaney3764]

I am 63 years old spent my child hood camping never datoned in my life had fire in rain storms. Thanks for the truth.

[@TheSherwoodyeoman]

Finally someone who knows what he's talking about.

[@michaelpepper7230]

I have been camping bushwalking since I was 12 now I'm 57 and never batoned a piece of wood yet. If I can't break it with my hands or feet I put it on the fire and move it as it burns down.

[@mikeewoody]

Dear Mike, im glad to see someone doing their best to give safe real and honest instruction. Thanks for that. Id like to add if i may. I live up in Alaska, during tje winter temps often reach 10-40 below zero, because of that most folding and pack style saws have a tendency to break blades. I usualy carry a fee extra blades but for potentially longer stays in the wilderness iv found an axe to be more consistantly reliable. Also very versatile for any chopping amd even carving tasks. Truth is if its above freezing i totaly see your point on saw only but just thought id share. Also axe is great for cutting out ice chunks for use as water. Keep up the truth brother and God bless.

[@dmitryhills6891]

Cave men thousands of years and never baton wood once.

[@mississippidrifter5960]

Very good points I have been wondering where batoning came from. I've been carrying a fixed blade skinning knife for 35+ and never even thought about beating on my main tool.

[@jdevilist]

Great video Mike and I agree with you 100%...Thumbs up sir!! I batoned before and after watching your video about it I LEARNED something and I for one THANK you for showing me a better way...I realized I was just doing what I saw others doing and thought , Hey...Mikes got a point and he's 100% right and if people can't understand what your trying to enlighten people to well f*** em......and again I thank you because I learned something..Look forward to more of your videos!

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Glad you liked it, appreciate the kind words. Sometimes the old ways (common sense ways) have been lost to new trendy fads or the next "life hack" that is making its way around YT. Made many wedges in the woods to split bigger wood, never broken a knife. Would rather break a wedge than my knife lol

[@xpisti_militum]

Mike, doesn't your video from a few years ago explain a few practical uses for batoning such as removing the wet part or cutting down a small tree?

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Yes, but what I was explaining is true batoning, not wood splitting. Batoning small pieces of wood to make fishing gigs or spears or traps/snares is true batoning. Tool making from small sticks, not whole logs. If you really listen to that video, I believe I mentioned in there several times that I've never had a use for batoning/wood splitting and do not recommend it. This current video is what the older video was supposed to be, but I was apparently too gentle on the subject years ago and this video was meant to wake people up. The new video is really centered on wood splitting- batoning firewood, which is unnecessary and risks your blade.

[@preparedsurvivalist2245]

I was making some knife scales out of oak and I batoned the piece so I could get the two halves flush on one side. Not a survival situation, just a project. For the purpose of quickly getting a flat side on a round section of wood it serves a purpose.

[@carljensen5730]

Batoning is stupid, and splitting wood is stupid. The only time I split wood is at home with cut large trunks, and usually I don't even split those. Large logs will burn "forever". In the wilderness, I will find wood of the sizes I want. If the wood is wet, just cut away the wet bark on a few logs and carve some kindling. Then dry the rest of your wood close to the fire.

[@charlesgoodroejr9540]

Ax, hatchet or tomahawk. Which is your opinion on the best one to carry?

[@IstvanOroszi-lb3yo]

Greetings from Canada. Well said Sir. Words of wisdom and common sense. Using a perfectly good knife as a wedge or an axe and then smashing it continuously with a log is a tenderfoot act.

[@Rammer_Jammer]

I agree with you 100%! Are you still enjoying your Esee? I just got my Esee 6 yesterday,can't wait to get out in the woods and try it out.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Love my Esees! BigToe has an Esee 4 he loves, wife has a 5. Have several of them myself. Great knives.

[@petemcpherson2259]

let the people who say their knife is designed for battoning try and get the manufacturer to replace it when it fails, I don't know of one company that covers battoning in their warranty, good video Mike.

[@worddunlap]

Give 'em hell. I've been in actual survival situations and more work was the furthermost thing that needed doing. They are a danger to themselves and others. Even more so the ones splitting large saw cut logs are entertaining themselves at the cost of others.

[@mikeward2465]

can't remember who was quoted on either. but know the quotes. A genius will take something complicated and make it simple. While a fool will take something simple and make it complicated". Also, " Don't argue with stupidity, it will bring you down to its level and beat you down with experience".. I like what you do. I wish I could do more than just like your posts. I think the knife manufacturing companies put out this knife beating idea so you break your knife and have to buy another. In my opinion.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Woody Guthrie and Mark Twain. I think the batoning stuff started as a way to sell knives (they break, you buy another, part of this throw-away society we live in nowadays), and then it got out of hand and the companies were being forced to replace for free by their return policies/warranties. All of it is unnecessary and time consuming. Just take care of your gear and it will take care of you. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@johnlord8337]

You know .... Bubba Gump and Ron White said it best .... Stupid is as stupid does, ... and you can't fix stupid .... enough said.

[@Front-Toward-Enemy]

*Forrest Gump

[@NoBSSurvival]

Oh I have another one. If you can't find much dry stuff to get a fire going and there are dry palm fronds. The stems are great for getting a fire started if they are dry. just chop or notch the break them into foot long sections then split them down the grain. They are super soft and straight grained. If you bloke a knife splitting that than something was wrong with it or maybe it was made of glass.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Of course splitting little green stuff like that is fine. This video as I've stated before, is directed at the people who seem to want to take the biggest piece of wood they can find and the largest club they can get and beat their knife. A palm frond does not quite count. And twigs/branches in that size range does not count. Any bigger pieces of wood that need splitting (which I don't think they need to be split for firewood) can be split better with a wooden wedge than with your knife. The wedge, because of its thickness, will split a very large log apart with no damage to your knife.

[@NoBSSurvival]

It is batoning and splitting. You can't make blanket statements like it is never ok to baton and then say the situations that are acceptations don't count.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

I think you have missed my entire point here. Yes, I make the blanket statement that you should NEVER baton your knife to get firewood. I stand by that statement because you never need to baton logs for firewood. You should be carrying a different tool (hatchet, ax, saw, etc ) if you desire to split wood for a fire, but in reality, wood will burn without having to split logs. You aren't feeding a stove or fireplace, it's a campfire. I've covered this point in the last 3 videos, and it is clear that you have confused the modern batoning for firewood idea with what TRUE batoning is- splitting small pieces of wood to make spears or gigs.

[@jameswright6316]

Shingle or shelf making. The only time one needs to baton wood is when they are making a shingle: a shelf to be placed at an angle that water may drain away from it. The batoning process is more controllable as it cuts through the wood than any other form of splitting. To gain even more control - woodworkers have developed a tool specifically for the job. It is called a froe! You know, as in bamboo froe or the shingle froe? However, I do not know of any time when one would need to make a shingle so badly that they would be willing to die to do so. [ OK, "Hmmm, I need to make this damn shingle so that they can use it to pry my frozen ass out of the tundra when they find me!" might be a good reason, but I doubt it. ] If you want to split wood - use an axe or wedge. If you want to carve wood use a carving knife. Never use a sledge hammer to pound a nail!

[@andyharris5715]

If you're going to misuse the knife, you may as well use your rifle to drive it through...

[@patmickler1352]

As a Florida, I have a small hatchet in my survival gear. Not for splitting wood but for food gathering. For instance, the easiest way to butcher a turtle is with a hatchet. The easiest way to get to the heart of a palm is with a hatchet and a saw. Both of these food sources are abundant and easy to get if you know how. There are many other food prep reasons for a small light weight hatchet. But I have never had to split wood to build a fire except for a fireplace.

[@toddgibson9861]

I've never had the need to baton large pieces of wood......I do split small pieces with my knife (with my off-hand as a baton) that I've already split with my small axe. I do feather, scrap, and splinter small pieces to start a fire when needed. 95% of the time, I can find all the tender, and kindling size wood on the ground.....and just break it by hand or foot. I use a folding saw to cut lengths of fuel size wood.....and split them with my small camp axe, if needed. That being said, I don't care what others do. If they want to baton 5" diameter bucks of wood, so be it. Whatever works for you is fine with me....LOL

[@hightecredneck65]

I agree, batoning is stupid. Buck Knives icon used to be (may still be) a ball peen hammer pounding one of their blades through a bolt. I'm surprised some pinheads out there haven't thrown away all of their hacksaws and ran to buy a Buck knife.

[@awake8794]

I've never saw the video about "batoning is stupid" but what you say is true. when I go camping I never BRING wood/ kindling with me, because you can find branches that you can break. Down to little twigs. Any time you're in the woods all you have to do is look around and you'll find all sizes of branches and twigs.

[@davidwolter5786]

Batoning is unnecessary. It's what people do to prove they know something. I've started many campfires none with batoned wood. Just extra work. Survival Lily loves showing her batoning skills.

[@tomhardy2866]

First, I’m going to tell you that this comment is in support of your position. There’s not any degree of hate to this particular comment.The first thing that I will say in support of your video is that it doesn’t matter what you say or do, but at least half the people that hear it are going to object to some substantial part of what you have to say. If you give away a million dollars, most people that comment about it will tell you that you have done the wrong thing. You just cannot please all people. I’m sure you understand this. My point is, is that you should feel no remorse, nor any degree of elation for the way that people react to your position or statements. They have their opinion and you have your opinion. And never the twain shall meet.It seems as though the anonymous aspect of commenting on KZbin videos brings out the absolute worst in people. I cannot help but wonder what their miserable pathetic lives are like if they refuse to make the moral choice to do what is right and not what is wrong in a public forum. And cursing people and using filthy language to the extent that it is used is, without a doubt, not the right thing to do. At best they can only be described as ill-behaved children. I will not state my opinion regarding what I think is the worst description of these miscreants. I do note that none of your responses resort to filthy language and name-calling and they rely entirely on logic and the facts. This is greatly appreciated by me. And I cannot imagine for the first moment that I am unique , and so will leave that many other people appreciate this. Telling someone that they are an effing idiot solves nothing and contributes to the argument in no way whatsoever. It is simply evidence of ill-behaved people throwing up their excrement as logic or argument.I love your example regarding cigarettes. Let me give you one more prime example: there used to be health spas in this country (no joke, they really did exist) that were there so that you could go down into old abandoned radium mines and breathe the nice HEALTHY radioactive air. Can you believe it?

[@johe7006]

If you have just a knife (no saw, no hatchet, no machete) batonning is the best way to cut down 3" or more trees or branches. But I agree, batonning for splitting wood is almost always innecesary, and splitting 4" or bigger piece is always innecesary ;)

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

You don't need to baton down 3" or more trees or branches, chop with the knife, or use an ax, hatchet, or saw....again the entire point of the video you missed- there is NO reason to baton a knife aside from 1/2"-1" pieces to make fishing gigs, spears, traps/snares, etc

[@johe7006]

My main knife is a Mora Robust (old version), chopping with is is stupid, batonning is a great option. Sorry if you dont like the knife or the technique, but both works great for mi:)

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

The Mora is COMPANION KNIFE to a real knife, not your do-all knife. You should be carrying a bigger knife for chopping (not batoning!!!!) and the Mora should be used for fine, smaller work or skinning game. Sorry you don't understand what knife to use in what situation. Watch my other knife videos to learn which knife to use in which situation.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

And if you don't want to carry a bigger knife, then you need to carry an ax, hatchet, saw, or froe or chopping. You DEFINITELY should not be batoning with a Mora!

[@r4nger5tube]

Nice vid, man -I'm totally behind your philosophy, there - don't spend unnecessary calories - gather the firewood tight sand you never need to baton - the knife is your best friend - don't waste it's good will by hammering your best friend without cause. Batoning was usually used as a way to gauge the quality of a knife - not a practice to be used for making all your fires - if you're competent, you'll have an axe - if you've lost your axe - take reeeeaaal good care of your knife!!

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

My point exactly! Your knife is your life line, no sense in risking breaking it! I showed the wedge for all those one-tool-option jokers out there that only carry one knife and never carry a saw or ax or hatchet with them in addition to their knives. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@woodscrafter1971]

Just gotta say you gained a subscriber today who saw this video belatedly. Not one word you said was untrue. Have to admit that 'batoning' is a guilty pleasure of mine...but I am well aware that it is never necessary. It's just something fun to do when I'm out in the woods and want to play with my knife! In an actual 'I'm cold and wet and need a fire' situation, it's probably the last thing I would consider...Loved the original video and REALLY love the response!! Great job man, keep it up!

[@D45VR]

been camping my whole life...never saw a need to split wood with a knife ...

[@scottc8459]

Well i for one think you are 100% correct. Use sticks and kindling to get your fire started. if you are in a survival situation why on this Earth would you want to abuse your survival knife.The single most important piece of equipment that you can have on your side and you want to beat it with a piece of wood.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Took the words right out of my mouth! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@WoodlandSurvivalist]

There are times when batoning is necessary. For instance when you need to split wood in a precise spot like for crafting purposes. I will baton when making a hearth for a bowdrill set but it is small straight grain soft woods such as willow, poplar or cottonwood.

[@turtle-tank8231]

I spit firewood for 12 years with a 8 pound Splitting maul and a Axe and there been chunks even the maul had a hard time with I know what a knife can and can't do a knife don't have a wedge shape or is of proper thickness only time I would use a knife is for small kindling to get a fire started

[@kurtgoldston5532]

I've been called every name in the book, for saying batoning is a foolish thing to do. I was always taught you use the right tool for the job! But these morons have no idea. I've enjoyed the crap out of your videos 👍

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Glad you like them, appreciate you watching and commenting!

[@markstanton63]

The main reason that guys use their knife to split wood is because they enjoy it. The reason I started splitting wood for a fire with my knife was because I saw other guys doing it .... so I copied them .... & it was satisfying .The funny thing is that I had managed to get perfectly good campfires going for thirty years or so without batoning wood with a knife .... I just used whatever deadwood was around .... broke the larger pieces up (using brute force & ignorance), or fed the big stuff in from the sides ... not very stylish, but it worked & didn't take much time or effort at all. I've never been in a situation where I have needed to reduce a large piece of wood down ... there has always been an abundance of small stuff literally growing on trees .... enough for a fire anyway. I'm going to stop beating up on my knife ..... it was fun at the time & felt cool but Mike is right ... When you step back and think about it .... what is the point? Personally It won't be much of a wrench to let go of this 'Trending' habit ..... Thanks for setting me straight on this.

[@sgtsandman7692]

I KNEW as soon as you put the original video up that it would be like trying to put a fire out with gasoline. LOL Like I said in response to the original video, I learned something with the hardwood wedge. I never saw that before. Batoning? Me personally, I consider it a "last ditch" method and only if things have gotten so bad, it was the only thing I had left. The wood wedge idea pushed the likelihood of that happening to an even more remote possibility. Thanks for what you do and keep up the good work.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

LOL good thing I don't mind playing with fire and have a thick skin. Thanks for watching, glad you liked the video!

[@georgieocasio1764]

lol,people seem to be very close minded, if they don't agree with you they call you all kind of names

[@frankmorris4790]

Batoning is stupid. Why do you need to split wood at all, unless they won't fit in a stove/fire place. I heat with wood, I live in the National Forest I don't own a maul or splitter. I cut up to 16"Dia. . And why in the world in a "survival situation" would one risk damage to one's PRIMARY survival tool in such a STUPID exercise?

[@brooklynwolfbear]

I just want to say my respect for you increased even more after your ,"Batoning Is Stupid", video. When you're right , you're right. This whole batoning thing was stared by KZbin knife testing morons who wanted to show how much they could abuse and misuse any particular knife and either get away with it or brake it.....proving nothing. Please continue your good work of informing your viewers of REAL survival knowledge.

[@jdevilist]

Miss Mike's video's.

[@pointfivesecondstorespond1551]

My challenge to you is that when you do your speed challenge you are up against some who has battoned for years, and that each of you can bring the knife of your choice. No hate in my heart, I'm excited to see the results.

[@svent1000]

You dont gett i, do you? Batoning a knife is something you dont see anywhere exept with some indiviuals on youtube. Because its not effective, not needed, and it will be damaging to your knife if you are depending on it fore survival. If you have one knife fore any reason, and thats your only tool, you dont put it at risk bya pounding it with a stock wile it stuck in a chunk of tree. Its plain stupid and not wery effectiv. If your dependent of a fire, you will make it much faster using dry branshes on standing trees. Ex branshes from a pine. And use the knife to make feathersticks if there is no birch nearbye. Because bark from birch always burn- even raw and wet. In a one tool scenario you dont have a saw, which needed to cut logs before batoning, and to chop wood in 6inch dimention batoning a knife is not wery effective and it takes a lot of time, compare to pick thin pieces of wood from standing trees. So, batoning is utterly bullshit. I have never seen amyone do it. I'm 48 years old, live in the forrest in Norway, and most of my life been hunting, fishing, camping, mushing dogs, in a 6 month winter inviroment. I have made my share of fire, and know 6- 7 types of different fires, each with different uses. I do not know the inglish word fore them. Some fore cooking, burn quikly without smoke, some burn all night next to a gapahuk, (you can google gapahuk, and you will find ancient survival trick) a fire to put a cettle right on, and so on. None of my technics inkludes batoning. I didnt even know what it was before I got internet a few years ago. Batoning is just playing fore fun, it has nothing to do with survival in the woods. You call it survival though, I start a fire fore food making severeal times a week. Its just a way of life. Ibring and axe or machete, because in the snow we make seats of branshes. I dont splitt woods though. Why bother?

[@pointfivesecondstorespond1551]

My question to you would be you posted a video yesterday about breaking knives chopping a limb, why weren't you using a saw for that?

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Because the video was about batoning and an alternative to batoning, by making a wedge to split. I have other videos up where I am using a saw. Don't assume because I show one way, its the only way.

[@pointfivesecondstorespond1551]

I also doubt that in a practical time comparison that you'll be done faster. I can imagine the way you'll make it look, which is fair, I've seen people who advocate it look like that. I will agree that it is avoidable, but it is a way to start fires and knives are made with battoning in mind.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

*Eye roll* Another person who has not been watching my videos, listening, or reading the comments. I've already explained several times over *3* videos that knives are NOT made with batoning in mind. I've called and talked to many knife making companies and they all say the same thing: DO NOT BATON YOUR KNIFE. If you cannot use a saw, or hatchet, or ax faster or easier than beating your knife to death to get firewood (which you still do NOT need to split wood to start a fire), then you need to get off the couch and out in the woods more and PRACTICE. I don't have to stage anything in my videos. I've been doing this for nearly 30 years and have NEVER had to baton to get firewood. There is no survival situation that requires it.

[@myzt1cz3r03]

I agree with you 100% there is no reason to baton with a knife, and you are right most knife makers did not design there product with that in mind in fact I only know of one that has a tool that is knife like that is designed to handle it that is Schrade with there FROE line.

[@bcjdwbiernfjherwfbowfib]

I like this! Splitting wood with your knife is very bad for a knife in the long run. Great videos!

[@TactialWoman]

well said, I grew up in the woods of Maine and never batoned a piece of wood,tho I do find limbing a tree with an ax is faster than a saw

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

It depends on which tool you prefer to carry and use. Both ax and saw are excellent tools for wood splitting, I just do not prefer the extra weight of the ax, which is why I carry a saw. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@schwartzcl]

I baton. But I'll follow that up with, I picked that up on my own and it's really all about laziness and ease of use. I agree with what you're saying here, there are tools designed for that job and wood wedge is a lot cheaper than snapping your blade. If I were truly in a survival situation I would never abuse my no.1 tool like that. Nor if i were in the backyard with an axe or a maul head.

[@MiS_4n_THr0_pic_NiH_il.i5t]

I learned something today, thank you good Sir!

[@daverose7457]

agree 100 % its a marketing gimmick to sell knives , that said , only thing i can come up with is to baton to get a fireboard to make a bowdrill fire , as far as designed a froe style knife is designed to split wood . Great video tho got a new sub

[@TheCharleseye]

I have a friend who makes knives and more specifically, makes knives that are designed to take a serious beating (like, smack them through hardwood with a hammer type beatings). I have one, because I collect knives and had to have one. It's an excellent knife and I carry it whenever I'm in the woods. I still have yet to find a reason to hit it through anything with anything else. I'll carry it forever and pass it on to one of my sons but I highly doubt I'll ever need to baton with it (mainly because I've never had to do it in the decades I've spent going into the woods). I guess I'd say it's good to have a knife that can do it if you think you might ever have to, but don't count on ever having to.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Even a custom made knife that is supposedly "made for batoning" may fail if batoned. It has to do with the physics and pressure/force put on the knife in multiple spots, that a knife doesn't encounter when cutting, whittling, skinning, fighting, shaving, etc. I've had custom knives made too, spent a lot of money on them, but I still wouldn't risk my primary survival tool out in the woods. Thanks for watching and commenting

[@bobbythepirate1430]

Alternatively, without having to abuse your knife, would you need a great superstrong knife? (I carry a bait knife). It cuts, it shaves it skins it feathers. It doesn't split, it doesn't dig. So..... Im with you here

[@jackmehoff6767]

it's true, if you have the tools to baton, then you have the tools to make a wedge, and if you can make a wedge, you have a way of splitting wood without stressing your knife and risking breaking it for no reason.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Exactly, and you can make a slightly smaller wedge than I did. I just grabbed the nearest wood and quickly made a wedge. Wife didn't even get a chance to get it on camera, I was too fast for her lol

[@markchilton7354]

I totally agree with you. The other stupidity that gets my goat are these "reviewers" who say that a knife must baton in order to be a good knife. This is garbage. Batoning is knife abuse.

[@mt_baldwin]

This may be a little off topic, I couldn't care less about battoning, I've been getting fires going in the woods for almost 20 years and never even heard about it until youtube, but I do like to see it in knife review videos. The reason is that I like to know if a knife can take such abuse, how durable is the blade, edge and tang, are the grip scales securely attached etc. I live deep in the back country and the nearest knife shop is almost a hundred miles away so I rely on these to help in buying a cutting tool. I'm referring here to thicker blades, such as survival and tactical blades and not something like a morakniv.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Batoning is not a way to judge a knife. It exerts forces onto a knife that the knife was not made to handle. The knife makers all reinforce this stance as they say you should not baton your knife. You should judge a knife by how it chops wood (not batoning to wood split), how it shaves, how it sharpens, and a tip test, not by batoning. And then by how it feels in your hand (ergonomics and grip), and how the handle does when exposed to blood and water.

[@axs307]

I think that this is a matter of preparedness vs unpreparedness. If you're in a situation whereby you need to process wood and all you got is your knife well, so be it..But if you're going into the wilderness and you didn't bring an axe,well that's just plain stupid....

[@scottsviper23]

I have a good point for you to add. I have heard of wood splitting axe, but you never hear of wood splitting knife. I think they are just lazy. They don't want to take the time to make a 4 minute wedge and they are set in there ways. I'm glad I happen to find this video. Batoning never sat well with me and I preferred to use my small axe. I like the idea of the wood wedge. I used it with my axe but never thought to use it in place of my axe so I gonna have to give that a run.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Wedges doesn't taken 4 minutes. Watch my Survival BS videos, it takes less than a minute to make one, about the same to baton wood, but won't break your knife. Axes are good too. I was just pointing out, if you don't have an axe or hatchet, that a wedge would be better to use than batoning a knife to death. Thanks for watching

[@davidwolter5786]

Too many people learn from books instead of experience. Batoning is waist of time.

[@deverymcneely9636]

I was taught batoning as a way of making tools out of wood like a fishing stick or a fire board or to pull down a small 2 inch thick sapling for making shelters if I have to make one otherwise I was taught to use a knife as a carving tool or as a cutting tool I never thought you needed to Baton wood to make a fire before

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

It is. True batoning is meant to make tools- spears, fishing gigs, traps, snares, etc. Not for making firewood. You don't need to split wood to make a fire and anyone who thinks they do has not practiced making fires enough out in the wilderness. Batoning firewood is a YT fad by idiots. You only cut firewood if you are feeding grandma's wood stove or your home fireplace, not a campfire in the woods.

[@jameydepp126]

I enjoy your videos and personally since I moved to NYC 15 years ago I haven't even had the need for a larger knife. I keep Pocket knives and a couple Mora knives for my fishing adventures. I watched a video of yours recently in which you compared different knives and you clearly stated that you'd never beat your knife with a chunk of wood or split wood with your knife. You did however say that a couple of those knives would be good knives for batoning with. I just want to know what the acceptable batoning method is compared to what you describe in this video and the batoning is stupid video? Thanks. Keep up the videos I enjoy learning from them.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

When I mention batoning, I am speaking about true batoning which is splitting wood only an inch or two thick to make fishing gigs, spears, snares/traps, etc. See my Fire hardening Spears video. Not batoning huge branches or logs to split wood for a campfire. No need to split wood for a fire. You should only do true batoning to make tools.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

If you are splitting anything thicker than your wrist with your knife, then you need to switch to a saw, hatchet, axe, machete, etc

[@jameydepp126]

SchoolOf SelfReliance Thank you for clarifying this for me. I continue to watch your videos. You are one of the only guys on YT who seems like they've actually spent time surviving in the woods which is way more educational then what someone who just goes camping is teaching. Any chance you'll be doing any "urban survival" videos? I grew up in the mountains but found myself living in NYC for the last 16 years so I'm curious to find as much info as I can on the subject considering I most likely won't end up in the woods if anything big ever happens again here. Thanks again

[@thewatcher611]

"....it comes as whole trees...." lol, true. I have always found, that if I look at the tree, up higher and out further, the wood gets pretty tiny. I use that for kindling.

[@IDWIE]

I'm a batoner. You make very good points! It's all about learning! Why is everyone so sensitive?

[@koettfaers]

IDWIE "im a batoner". Lol. Sounds like a AA meeting

[@daskraut]

here's a scenario when you absolutely must baton wood: you magically turned into nutnfancy

[@craigmoore4060]

If you actually listen to what this guy has to say, you got to admit it makes perfect sense!! Whether you like his attitude or not has no bearing!

[@OnTheRiver66]

Rune Hantho and Oldtimer Lee are correct. Batoning is a KZbin phenomena, and like many KZbin phenomena they are fiercely defended as if no one else is right, like some kind of Gestapo. If someone wants to baton fine, just don't attack those of us who have built fires in the woods for years without the need to split wood with a knife. I'm 70 and believe me batoning is new and in my opinion not needed. If you want to split wood with your knife I will not criticize you but you should watch the videos where batoning has broken name brand knives.

[@lightstrider8239]

I never thought of batoning with a knife until I started watching videos, but even then I never thought I would because I wouldn't want to damage my knife when I have a small saw and axe. Maybe if I had a big thick heavy knife I might but that's not worth the weight to me when I have the other two tools. Didn't think of cutting a wedge and using it to cut wood, now I will just do that! If it's cold and wet someone needs to get kindling first and even then if everything is wet they've still got to use similar small twigs and branches to reliably build the fire up cause trying to saw and find large logs to baton is going cost a lot of energy. If they are batoning small diameter pieces with their knife, whatever, your point is valid that taking a few minutes to cut a wedge so you're not risking your knife is a much better approach.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

It's a fad. It's not necessary to do to get a fire going. True batoning of sticks that are maybe 1-inch to 2-inches thick to make a fishing gig or spear or snare/traps is what true batoning was meant for and it won't risk your knife. To make tools with your knife, not try to split big logs into firewood for a campfire. People out there batoning are taking a terrible risk with their main survival tool. What happens when they are trapped out in the woods for longer than they expected to be and they break their knife by batoning? It is much more difficult, time consuming and energy consuming to try and flint knap out a blade or do a makeshift knife from materials in the woods. And while you could eventually make a blade, it will not be anywhere as sturdy or reliable as a factory made knife. Thanks for watching.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Lightstrider yes Lars agrees he is a real woodsman in a real wilderness. Thanks

[@mharm734]

The angry video game nerd was great maybe we can have an angry batoning nerd

[@muddyfox5550]

Well said!! This is a great vid to show that people listen but don't hear what you are saying. Keep it up mate I'm looking forward to the next vids.👍

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Thanks for watching, be sure to subscribe and share!

[@snakrut]

Sensible common sense argument. Appreciate it.

[@oldtimer4567]

Finally, finally,finally! Someone who is stating the same facts, that I've been saying for years, about the "batoning" craze found on KZbin knife/survival type reviews. Bad thing is, because of the massive amount of knife, survival, bushcrafter, prepper, preparedness, etc. type videos that promotes "batoning" & knives capable of same, the "batoning craze" has become the standard to which EACH & EVERY KNIFE of EACH & EVERY SIZE is compared to in quality & durability. So therefore, if I can't baton a saw log with my fillet knife, well it's obviously junk & serves no purpose...right?....LOL. Also, I doubt any reviewer on KZbin or anyone anywhere will accept your challenge. Keep telling it like it is. There are those of us that know what you're saying about this subject is true. AND, there WILL BE others that'll figure it out also.

[@charlesmurphy7712]

after processing wood down to a size to create a firebord for a friction fire ,to create a smooth flat surface would be an excuse to use a knife I might hazard a guess, but I've got forty years under my belt and I never started batonning with a knife untill three years ago when I saw it done on line in a KZbin video. just thought it was fun and gave it a whack lol . I've usually made fires and let the fire do most of the work like you alluded to. only when I have made council fires and such for scouting or organized events with friends like cookouts will I take the time to make a fire pretty. I think it's got a lot to do with asthetics it looks cool and flashy on screen so it must be the way to go , well that shit will get you killed quick. sticks twigs and tinder picked up and put together in minutes when minutes count like when your wet and cold is a heck of a lot faster than trying to cut up some wood from a branch thick enough to baton. and as far as your attitude keep it it's you and I like what I here and see on your corner of the KZbin video stuff. everyone can hate and do what they want , I'll be happy to makebupy own mind and do what works for me. lol you have a peaceful and relaxing evening sir and keep up the good work.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

I've done fire boards and bow drills, and I just peel or shave a large platform from bark. Never batoned. It's a trendy fad that has resulted in a lot of broken knives. I get it- my step-son was in the Scouts, his scoutmaster used a hydraulic splitter to cut wood for council fires because it was "prettier" and it stacked up neatly and out of the way, which is great for ceremonies and whatnot, but in a survival situation, just grab what wood you can find and get to work. Appreciate the kind words and for you watching and commenting!

[@Rjp0665]

Batoning wood is a marketing scheme to sell these thick shanked knives

[@wolfe-hz8wq]

I still agree. Batoning is just a way to ruin a knife.

[@akeeperofoddknowledge4956]

Well said, Mike! Keep the truth coming!

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

I'm trying my friend, I'm trying!

[@monfo7200]

I agree with you. I wouldn't prep wood. I'd prep tinder and burn the whole damn tree lol!

[@echo6echo419]

I know this video is a year out now, but I just became aware of it. I appreciate your views on some of this. While your delivery could use some polish, (my opinion) you make some interesting points. It's all been rehashed a few times in the comments below, but your comment about coming up with a reason to baton got me thinking. I know there are many ways to skin the goat, but have you studied the froe? They were designed specifically to be hit with a baton for certain things. True it's not a "knife" but it does have a knife shape. Could you not design a knife with the same characteristics? Schrade did it once. I'd be interested in your thoughts on using your "knife" for some of the froe tasks.

[@jarrodcollins1514]

most of the things people do now are not necessary. it is my opinion that until you break everything down to pure premative skill you are smoothing it.

[@joshuahmoran]

I've only Had to baton a couple times, never really had to do it in the bush because there's always grass or something to start a fire, good points and nice video.

[@eltipobigotudo2162]

Now, I don't have hate in my heart, but I'd like to say this. I don't think (smart) KZbinrs baton their knives because they think they have to to get to dry wood, but rather to see what extremes the knife CAN be taken to. Even if the knife is never going to be used that way in a real survival situation, it instills extra confidence in the knife. Now, for my challenge!What if you were stranded on an island without any trees, on their verge of hypothermia, and you find a piece of driftwood? And you had a knife only.

[@eltipobigotudo2162]

Even though the fact that you would only have one knife in the first place anyhow is pretty stupid.

[@billystink4611]

Harakiri. Problem solved.

[@RollsRoyce1954]

This is a dead ball's accurate response to all the haters out there.

[@cmcclellan9721]

I wonder if any of these "batoning haters" ever heard of metallurgy? They're hating on you and you EXPLAIN why it is harmful to your knife. I never heard of batoning with a knife till you tube. Always used a hatchet or tomahawk to split wood chunks into kindling when needed (in case I ran outta sticks and twigs, or needed to get to the dry wood inside). I've learned alot of various skills over the years, but have questioned the validity of claims made by some. Love the channel and what you are TRYING to do, brother. Don't quit! Sooner or later, intellect will override the hateful commentary.

[@johnrossell8049]

I believe batoning is abuse specially batoning logs

[@thecuttingsark5094]

Brilliant. Love the idea of actually putting a lot of the bullshit under a test. It reminds me of when MMA first came on the scene and a whole lot of fakery was exposed. I would like to see all of the ‘survival experts’ go through a set of standard benchmark tests. I’d wager a bet that half of them couldn’t go unsupported from one side of the Brecon Beacons to the other.

[@thatdudeinblack8707]

i appreciate the knowledge your trying throw out there. anybody who doesn't agree is just hurting themselfs in the long run.

[@Turtleu1]

I don't think you can accurately state that sawing is faster than chopping. Unless you're using a chainsaw then that's a whole different story . But I've seen people that are faster with an ax than they are with a saw and visa versa.

[@Turtleu1]

And I think that most people have forgotten what a wedge is

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

It depend on the user, the wood, and what you are trying to accomplish. I've never had any problems with my Silky saw.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

Yes they have

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

And I'm not really saying a saw is faster than an ax, I mean both are faster than batoning your knife and breaking it...that those tools are the one for the job, not your knife.

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

And I'm not saying to split wood with a saw versus an ax- I'm saying a saw will always be faster than an ax for cutting wood. If you want to split wood, use a wedge or a froe. Watch this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXjadXqEh5hpeZo

[@mharm734]

Do you think batoning an axe or hatchet is stupid also or is that different than batoning a knife?

[@SchoolOfSelfReliance]

I believe I have already answered that question in multiple forms in all 3 video comment sections. A hatchet or ax is a triangular prism designed specifically for splitting wood. It is made from different softer steel and has a different heat treat that holds up better to the forces of splitting wood. Your knife is NOT made for splitting wood, it has a different shape, design, steel and heat treat. I personally use a Silky saw or a hatchet.

[@Nazter69]

Well said sir you just earned my sub. No need to put your knife though this, I mean if batoning is a last resort then use that skill .

[@ArikGST]

Is fun a valid reason to baton? Cause I think it`s fun. I agree with pretty much all your points, batoning is not a very useful technique and I frankly can`t imagine any real world scenario where it would be your only option.