Battery Cooling Mythbusted - Heat transfer to battery modules

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temu.to/m/unzii48345uHey Everyone! Welcome back to the ElectricSuperCar channel! This episode we are going to myth bust battery cooling!
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▬ Contents of this video ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
0:00 - Intro
2:59 - Battery Appication
3:28 - Why a thermal management system
4:13 - What batteries
6:08 - Test setup and Heat Testing
8:45 - Cooling Testing
10:15 - Results and Discussion
12:16 - Comments
Vecteezy.com - subscribe animation
Tags: #Andeman #EVCharger EV cooling,cooling plates,battery box cooling,chilling plates,thermal plates,ev battery management,battery management,electric kit car,Electric vehicle batteries,electric vehicle battery,Battery cooling,electric vehicle battery cooling,electric car battery,ev battery,battery cooling system electric vehicle,battery cooling system,tesla battery cooling system,lg chem battery,ev battery cooling system,battery thermal management system,battery cooler

[@ElectricSuperCar]

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[@vincentfauconnier1460]

i know it's a sponsor but TEMU is really bad and giving your payment info to a Chinese vendor ??

[@Zendukai]

@@vincentfauconnier1460 Just about any cheap sh$t isn't made in your country or ours. And if the local shops are selling cheap sh$t where do you think they got it from. Yes buy local if you can, but if the item is not stocked local and not in your country and you want it, well TEMU is ok, for me anyway. Its your money, and at the moment the Government can't tell you where to spend it... yet... If/when they do away with cash and your stuck with digital...

[@beforebefore]

The 65 year old EE is back :-) Again, please understand that I'm only trying to help... at my age, I have nothing to gain by trying to prove anybody wrong. I just want to share what my 45+ years of EE and product design (including all aspects of product design... Mechanical, Fluid dynamics, and manufacturability) have taught me. Knowledge belongs to nobody, and should be shared to benefit as many people as possible. The aluminum thermal transfer plates (on the Chrysler battery) would always have thermal transfer interface material to the heat exchanger surface, whether using a thermal paste or a thermal pad... because you can not get a gapless mate between two imperfect surfaces... and any gap is filled with air, which is a horrible thermal conductor. Even if the gap is only 0.001", it still has a thermal conductivity of 0.024W/mK. Good silicone-bases thermal transfer pad material has a thermal conductivity ranging 6W/mK to 13W/mK... around 250 to 541 times better than air. A typical thermal paste averages around 70W/mK... that's 2916 times better heat transfer than air. Aluminum thermal conductivity is about 247W/mK... 10,291 times better than air. Repeatable tests must have the same test conditions... the packs should have been oriented the same direction on the plate, not in opposite directions. This makes a difference because the copper tubes will transfer heat better than the aluminum plate, so the lengthwise orientation will expose the battery module to more copper, with increases transfer. One major consideration in this kind of "A-B" comparison test is Thermal Mass... the Chrysler battery module is MUCH larger, and has much higher thermal mass... yet. it proved to be better than the other module. What this means is that the aluminum plates in the old. battery modules are doing a far better job than the results indicate... because it performed better, even though it had greater thermal mass. Thermal pads would significantly improve the thermal transfer ability of these new battery modules... applied to both sides, thick/soft pad material to allow it to compress down into the sides of the modules... remember... air is a horrible thermal conductor. There are also Thermally Conductive RTV Silicones that have a typical thermal conductivity of 1.79W/mK... not great, but still 75 times better than nothing... but this would make battery pack servicing pretty much impossible. Just consider the horrible 1st gen. Nissan Leaf battery failures... because they just used air as a thermal transfer medium.

[@RotorWorks]

I think his tests need to take on your methodology otherwise they will be significantly inaccurate. Final product should be cooled with the same direct contact thermal paste too.

[@rickmellor]

We should be paying more attention to this comment. It’s right on all counts.

[@lasersterling]

As a physicist I can tell you, your experiments gave the expected results for heat flow. I think you will be just fine in regulating the temperature of your batteries. Most will not appreciate the capacitive charge build up that can be devastating to the electrical system, so great job!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thank you!

[@SeanBZA]

@@ElectricSuperCar Thermal pads actually help a lot with heat transfer, depending on what you get, as they fill the small gaps that are always present there, unless you have either a soldered joint, or a weld. Thin pads on smooth machined surfaces always work better than bare metal to metal. Plus provide insulation if you have a material with insulating properties, so work well. Even with the plastic battery cases use the pads, they conform to the surfaces, and help transfer better than air, and also provide damping of vibration as well. Thin pads are cheap, and work well to transfer the heat to the panel, which, no matter how well you have machined it, will always have some warp, and loss of contact. Even the Chrysler pack uses them between the cells and the thermal plates, to get good heat transfer, so use them for the other, and it will help with heat transfer a lot.

[@rthomp03]

One thing to clarify: adding the second cooling plate won't quite double your cooling capacity. This is because you will keep the battery temperature closer to the coolant temperature, so there is less temperature differential (commonly called "delta T"). The total heat flow (Q) is a function of the heat transfer coefficient (h) * (delta T). Your "h" is fixed based on the materials you're using and the mass flow of the coolant, so if you have lower "delta T" then you won't have as much heat flow per unit area. So doubling the area doesn't quite double the cooling. Hopefully that makes sense, KZbin doesn't allow for nice formatting of scientific formulas. But the bigger effect is that you're going to alternate batteries and cooling plates, so most cooling plates will be heated from both sides. Basically, your proportion of batteries to cooling plates (i.e. one pack might have 8 batteries:10 plates) will determine how much cooling capacity you have. Along with how you run the coolant lines (i.e. will the coolant circulate in series or parallel for each plate?) A much more scientific test would be to put a high electric load on the entire completed battery pack (like by DC fast charging it), and use a variable coolant pump to determine how much coolant you have to move through your system to maintain your desired temperatures.

[@TheProjectOverload]

Congratulations on your progress and taking the time to review and not rush. Your channel is informative and interesting. Keep up the good work.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Much appreciated!

[@timgrinton6249]

Love watching your content, had no idea how dificult this would be until watching your videos. Some channels make it look like a conversion can be done in a weekend and off they go. Keep up the good work.

[@pheuker45322]

This has been a great episode of “KZbinrs read mean comments” 😂

[@ElectricSuperCar]

LOL!

[@Doctorbasss]

Try to pay attention to which cell tab you put the thermocouple on, The cell Cathode is aluminum and conduct heat less than copper ( the Anode) But if these are already joined together it does not matter as there are both welded together. Puting thermal paste on the tip of the thermocouple is really helping precision measurement. Finally, the mass difference between the two packs might have influenced the thermal transfer result for your measurement. If both packs weight the same then you can compare apple with apple but if one is heavier than it will tale more time to stabilize than the first one and give lower temp that it should.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks for the comment

[@Sanjayadon]

You are the first creator I saw using liquid cooling on KZbin. It helped me a lot to understand how the battery pack works under extreme conditions. Keep up the good work!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Cool, thanks

[@Wheelieking619]

I am trippin. People actually commented that that cooling system implemented here won’t work? Are you kidding me? This design is so well planned and executed! This thing is gonna transfer heat like crazy. If you don’t see that ,I thank you kinda crazy.

[@shackf16]

I appreciated your comments about the comments! I have learned a ton by watching other EV conversion videos, as well as from the comments on those videos. There are some really intelligent folks out in the world, and while their comments contain very useful and even necessary info, they are made in a way that many people stop reading after the first couple of sentences. Thanks for addressing that! Now, I am excited to see the progress on your build and look forward to you actually having everything together and running to see how closely your cooling test data carries over to the real-world variables. Keep the videos coming!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks for the comment!

[@ToniPlays_]

Definitely love the project, especially the battery related videos. Hoping to see the Porsche on the road soon. The videos have teached me a lot when it comes to design and building for my own electric moped project (which unfortunately got stolen along with a lot of other stuff during the holidays). Keep up the good work!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Ouch! Sorry!

[@victorsijtsma8446]

Thanks for taking us along all the details considered!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

You bet!

[@deanmcmanis9398]

It is nice that you are actually measuring the heating and cooling effects on these two different batteries, rather than just giving it an educated guess, and maybe being sadly surprised later. The other benefit is for us viewers in understanding that there are so many different choices and considerations that need to be researched and made with a complicated project like this. It also shows that doing a project well, prevents having to do it over. Even though that comes up too with complex/custom/bespoke projects like this.

[@scudest438]

Can't wait to see this build finish, but enjoy waiting for all episodes to drop! As for the next build, you have to do another sports car, you can't go down a level and just do some old regular car, gotta keep the momentum/wow degree going! Keep up the mint work!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

That's the plan!

[@InspireEV]

Just have to say… your format and attention to detail are AWESOME!! Thank You! These videos are great!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Wow, thank you! Love what you guys do. We'll have to collaborate one of these days

[@InspireEV]

@@ElectricSuperCar Absolutely!

[@willozfam]

Came here to check out your temperature testing video after I commented on your battery box video with a slight worry about heat in the center of the pack. While this test does a good job of evaluating the difference between your modules, and some modules that are more thermally conductive, it doesn't evaluate the thermal performance of a stack of modules under load all enclosed inside a battery box. I would still recommend that you add one thermistor in the very center of each "stack" of batteries in each box. At least you'll have the data to tell you if you are getting a dangerous hot spot that you can't see from the outside with a thermal camera. I would look at it as a bit of incredibly cheap insurance. Still loving your videos! You're inspiring people to explore projects like this. I'll be watching for sure. Can't wait for that first drive video. 👍

[@Decenium]

the intro to the recap of the project had great energy, good stuff

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks Friend!

[@cvicracer]

I learn so much from your videos! Thank you for all your hard work!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

You are so welcome!

[@bradbrowatzke7236]

Another well thought out video. I forgot about the capacitive effect you had with the other battery system. I do love your assessment of the comment impact, and it is fair to point out. Congratulations on the sponsorship, that is a weight off the shoulders I imagine. Glad to see things are plugging along, and I like your solution. Keep up the great work! Looking forward to the next video.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thank you!

[@spyro9979]

I asked the same question few vidoes ago, and got my answer! thanks a lot

[@dhruv0503]

I always learn something new from your videos. Thanks for uploading 👍

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Glad to hear that

[@Steel_Rain]

Great video! I love watching the progress and your design / build process

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks a bunch!

[@electrifythe75cvccwagon10]

I love seeing this experiment. I'm using the same batteries as you and it's so instructive to see how you are going about it. I'm not going to have any active cooling (ducks head) but it's good to see the thought going into it!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Nice! You will have to let me know how they turn out

[@conor7154]

I really enjoy your videos. Thank you for documenting everything and I really hope you were able to find a good job, I remember you saying that you were looking for one before

[@ElectricSuperCar]

I hope so too!

[@dukie1616]

Great excellent appreciating the research👏

[@edhall4669]

Would love to see some tests on the actual heat/cooling of the pipe embedded plates vs conditions like flow rate. Would be great to see exactly how efficient those designs are!

[@TwinVisioned]

I'm glad you can ready those negative comments and laugh it off. The amount you have learned in the past couple years is incredible, and your timing for starting your first EV supercar could not have set you up better to build a business around EV conversions. I hope that you are still considering this, as I can tell you are truly devoted to it and possess the mentality of continuous learning and research. The future will have a significant need for businesses like this to convert older vehicles to electric once the grid can support it and gas stations become obsolete. Love watching your videos and learning along with you. Your builds are inspiring. Thanks for all the time you put into your content and please prove everyone wrong with this porsche! 💪😁🤩😎 PS: I didn't have chat GTP write this.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

LOL! Thanks!

[@HappyScarySad]

As an electrician, I really love your content!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Awesome, thank you!

[@egfreed]

I’m just commenting for the algorithm! Love the videos and how many you are able to get out. That being said I hope you find work soon I know that’s a stressful thing to deal with!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks so much!!

[@RealRickCox]

My comments are always intended to be encouraging and to let you know what I've appreciated about the information you've shared. I wouldn't have ever thought of the heat/cooling issues on batteries. Because I've never built an EV, I was thinking rather simplisticly.... get Tesla drivetrain, batteries, BMS and controller and I'll be good to go. I'm realizing there's a lot more to it! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks Rick!

[@ikocheratcr]

To make temperature measurements more consistent and fast, I normally add a tiny drop of water to the sensor or at the place I will measure the temp. Water is a good heat conductor, and works great as an interface between the sensor and object to measure; and is pretty easy to clean and leaves no residues. Other liquids are too messy.

[@aldozampatti]

Wow, I just bought yesterday at Home Depot a set millimitered ratcheting wrenches just like the one you showed, costed me 79$ !!!

[@tonigon5767]

Really informative! I really liked this episode.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Glad to hear it!

[@tristansimonin1376]

You disappointed me be accepting a sponsorship from temu...

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Because...?

[@tristansimonin1376]

@@ElectricSuperCar temu is known for stealing information about their user like credit card info, it's also evolve with a lot of children work and slave. And finally it's one of the worst things for the environment with fast fashion etc

[@suryavanshib]

Awesome ✌🏻✌🏻✌🏻 You already have built one EV and you have help to Jerry for with this Hummer from trouble shooting to make it run. You have huge experience and you will do it what is best required. Best wishes 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 Keep it up 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks Friend!

[@jimmac521]

something to consider on the old pacifica cells... aluminum to aluminum sounds great except that aluminum corrodes slightly and it impacts the tranfer of thermal energy in that aluminum/aluminum interface. Your 3M heat pads actually improve that situation. I've worked in the chip world for a while (decades) the thermal pad is the current ruling interface. You never see metal to metal. (thermal grease is still used but there are consistency issues in a factory setting so it's not preferred).

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Interesting 🤔

[@hummerm4741]

Great job with the cooling I make batteries for golf carts The batteries are lithium-iron phosphates lots of prismatic cells 16 to be exact to make a 48 volt style battery I do not put cooling in because they do not heat up that much but this video was very interesting for me keep up the good work

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks! I also find the batteries don't heat up that much

[@brianb-p6586]

The description starting at 5:18 of the difference between the two models of LG Chem modules is good (although it could have used illustration with the components of each module broken down).

[@mmccon2007]

As always, I enjoy your content. As a commenter, I will always try to be supportive and kind. I work for an EV company and I appreciate the struggle to cool and heat battery cells. The method my company uses involves cooling "tubes" touching each cell on both sides for maximum heat transfer and it really works well. Perhaps buying a Tesla module from a legacy Model S or X and reverse engineering that would be helpful in future builds. Generally I like the form factor of the Tesla modules and think you could package them pretty easily. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for the content!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks for the comment!

[@brianb-p6586]

It is unlikely that anyone is going to home-brew an equivalent to Tesla's "cooling snake" approach. If you like Tesla modules, just use them intact. @ElectricSuperCar is wisely using OEM modules, not building custom modules.

[@trevorbarron2603]

I've enjoyed following along on your builds! Thank you. The experiment you did was a good, first pass investigation. The results show that the aluminum interface outperformed the plastic interface. That is expected. What we don't know is how much thermal resistance the battery can actually tolerate at that interface in your specific application. You came up with a good idea of using top and bottom conduction cooling paths to mitigate risk. Have you explored using an inert "electronic liquid" (3M FC-770) for directly cooling the batteries? That fluid would circulate thru the battery packs and a radiator/heater. It would be the ultimate in cooling/heating performance for not much more cost. Keep up the great work. Another tip to share is try epoxy coating the bus bar. Less bulk and more durable. Your bus bar work was stellar by the way. Keep on producing the great content!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks for the suggestions!

[@tedheierman1181]

I think your test were good for a static battery. But, I would like to see battery temperature tests run 1) using the cooling system in the plates 2) while charging and 3) during a fast discharge. The batteries get much hotter during times of charge and discharge. So testing your in-plate cooling during these times is really needed.

[@Teper303]

Yes another video!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks!

[@KyleZiber]

I'm the first 206th comment! In all seriousness, I'm loving this video series and have been learning a lot. Thank Zach for turning me onto your channel with the hummer project.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@himanka666]

I really like and appreciate how educating all of your videos are. I think you would be a great asset if you did this full time and if you could get proper funding. I hope someone will take you up on the idea of building “their” project.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

That's the plan!

[@dougdashwitz]

Appreciate the mythbuster parody. I appreciate the data and the larger than 1 sample size. Curious, why not simply sandwich the cell packs between 2 cooling plates and pump hot or cold fluid through in a temporary experimental setup? I would think this would be a more *stable* (heh heh) testing scenario with less variables and more data. For example, you could measure input and output fluid temperature in order to see the thermal wattage imparted to the cells by measuring the difference, assuming of course, you also did a control run with nothing between the plates. Just my 2-cents. Love the project, keep up the work, cant wait to see more!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

My main thought was to see if my cooling strategy was way off. This to me proved that I was good enough.

[@dougdashwitz]

@@ElectricSuperCar fair enough, was just curious!

[@ideabrickworks9043]

I am really enjoying your work! What is your field? I am guessing some type of engineer. As a recovering mechanical engineer, I really like how you approach design and problem solving. As far as heat transfer, your results are consistent with my expectations. The induced voltage is quite interesting issue, and one that I do not understand. Guess we need an electrical engineer to chime in!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks for the comment!

[@billbayer5526]

I've always wondered if the conductive style heating/cooling was effective. Regarding your capacitive voltage build up. It's worse with 400v systems but it happens with 48v, too. LiFePO4 (both with plastic cases and metal), Leaf, Volt and Tesla modules...all of them do it. I've never done a build that didn't have it. I have no idea how to eliminate it.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks for the comment!

[@chrisdown2591]

Great episode! Curious if your temp monitoring will influence charge rates or acceleration rates??

[@ElectricSuperCar]

They system will limit current based on temps

[@AhmedHassan-yc5fb]

I still think your aluminum plates are just unnecessarily too thick and heavy. This gives a lot mass for the heat to sink in. However, it would require too much energy to heat up. Anyways, I enjoy your videos. Keep it up 👍

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks for the comment!

[@Wheelieking619]

I’m mostly a fan of the partially smashed copper tubes -rad!

[@WernerWagener87]

Great video as always! The only thing that scares me a little is that one of the battery cases, cooling tubes can leak inside the battery compartment. The other I think cannot. If I could choose I would definitely try to use the same design that cannot leak inside. (I think both "can" leak inside, but a leak from the cooper tubes is I think less likely than a leak of the "rubber" ones.

[@WernerWagener87]

cannot leak inside: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZTafY2oft6epKs can leak inside: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZTafY2oft6epKs let me know if I'm wrong.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Understood

[@GamingWithURO]

Another great episode. Have you decided on which "customer" project you might be taking on yet?

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Not yet

[@rbuschy]

Have you done thermal imagery of your battery packs to see their thermal characteristics under load? Are there any concerns regarding condensation? Do the battery boxes any sort of thermal wrap?

[@ElectricSuperCar]

We will find out soon!

[@brianb-p6586]

Heat transfer is through the thin plastic film of the cell pouch in both cases. The differences with the modules not intended for EV use are the lack of a heat-conductive path from the cell face to the module face, and the addition of a much much thicker block of plastic in the heat transfer path. I'm surprised that the that heat transfer penalty is as small as it appears to be.

[@andreyl2705]

Awesome🔥

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks 🔥

[@mavi5477]

Love what you are doing. [ I'm sure you don't just wing it, how do you do all your planning, design, calculations, animations, and all that.] Where and how do you keep records of what you do? (Don't need to be specific).

[@ElectricSuperCar]

KZbin 🤣 Mostly computer programs

[@davep3969]

Very interesting. If you used thermal transfer paste or pads it would work better.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks for the comment

[@GrenYT]

Maybe a better way to run this test would have been to use the cold plates like you intended! Instead of just heating/cooling them, just pump water througj at the temperature you want. Probably a bit more work to setup but more reliable/consistent overall. Another tip for your integration is to put some thermal compound between your modules and cold plates to get better thermal conductivity, but I'm guessing you were probably already planning that in the final assembly

[@Boomtendo4tw]

Trendy positive amazing video! World's greatest! Number 1! The goat!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks for the comment!

[@christopherravizza4605]

Great video! I feel like you might be better off by trying the plastic cells with a thermal pad or some type of thermal interface material due to the slight surface inconsistencies of both the batteries and the plates just to sqeese out that last bit of thermal resistance

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks for the tips!

[@jimk8520]

Agreed. While there is a slight degradation in the efficiency of the heat transfer when using a thermal pad, the heat transfer gain from increasing the surface area contact exceeds the heat efficiency loss. There are limits but within reason, the more irregular the transfer surfaces are, the wider the gain becomes.

[@alirezaabasi.]

Good job but it's better that each lithium ion batteries different in design that causes different energy density that causes different heat generation and transfer but is is good demonstration 👍.

[@pictsidhe6471]

Science is even more amazing than comments. I'm done here.

[@F16Jap]

Getting Temu as a sponsor... I hope the channel is doing well :/

[@adjake1]

Do you have a link for the thermal pads you used. We are starting our battery boxes with the Pacifica cells

[@ElectricSuperCar]

There are two sizes. The longer one (17.5" x 11.25") I showed you is part number 24282825 www.gmpartsgiant.com/parts/gm-pad-cell-bat-24282825.html The shorter one (13.5" x 11.25") is part 24282830 www.gmpartsgiant.com/parts/gm-pad-cell-bat-24282830.html

[@needsafish]

100% AI-generated. You know more about this topic than I do. I just wanted to comment for once to your videos. Great work on the battery cooling experiments! Your approach to testing the heat transfer capabilities of different battery module designs is thorough and insightful. One aspect that might enhance your findings is considering the long-term effects of thermal cycling on the battery cells. Repeated heating and cooling can cause physical changes in battery materials, potentially impacting performance and lifespan. I think integrating this aspect into your testing could give you a more comprehensive understanding of the effectiveness and durability of your cooling solution. Keep up the fantastic work!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

👍

[@brianb-p6586]

@@ElectricSuperCar this is why AI tools are bad. The AI-generated comment has no content of any value - it is just an assemblage of phrases related to heat transfer and batteries.

[@bena461]

@ElectricSuperCar has better end credits scenes than most modern blockbuster movies.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks!

[@adjake1]

Do you know the application of the smaller lg chems? Trying to find the correct packs to use for a dual motor space limited application

[@ElectricSuperCar]

I got mine from EV west

[@brianb-p6586]

The modules which are being used here are intended for moderate-power backup power systems.

[@tracymason7393]

How long does it take to heat or cool the plate by running coolant through the lines? Not the results by heating or cooling the batteries. How hot or warm can you make that plate by running coolant? Or did I miss that part of the video?

[@ElectricSuperCar]

A few minutes

[@TheScorpio32]

I think in your case it should just work fine but I've always wondered how well EVs would function in the desert heat (where I live), it goes up to 49c/120F easily every other day under shade (never mind under direct sunlight). Maybe a tesla style batteries would work best in those applications as they have cooling inbetween batteries rather than the case itself.

[@SkaterStimm]

Interesting results, I wouldn't even think you could effectively cool the LG Chem since it didn't have a flat area. I wonder how much just a regular fan blowing across the plastic fins would help. Weird LG didn't think of putting a pad of sorts on their design.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Great point!

[@brianb-p6586]

Both module styles are from LG Chem. These modules are designed properly, and there is nothing that LG Chem designers didn't think of. A heat transfer pad or paste is used with the modules that have the aluminum heat transfer face in every intended application.

[@Beeeeeeeeeee]

Hmmm in a dc system I wouldn't expect a capacitive voltage reading. Very strange. Was there a voltage difference between the different cell's cooling plates?

[@shreeyogshinde212]

Hello, Firstly great work, really inspired. I'm currently working on a battery thermal management system project and was wondering about the type of temperature control system you're utilizing. Your insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again, and consider me a new follower - your work has truly captivated me. Best of luck!support!

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Hey man, welcome aboard! I usually will just answer questions, but this time I think it will be easier to point you to another video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i2i1hmNubtmle7Msi=E8GK-7RXV-yW7FiL The second half of Kevin's video goes through some good detail about thermal management

[@shreeyogshinde212]

@@ElectricSuperCar For controlling the Pumps based on thermistors, which controller have you used?

[@ElectricSuperCar]

I am not that far yet, but I believe Kevin used something like this. www.aemelectronics.com/products/ev_conversions/power_distribution_unit/ It can be controlled to turn things on and off based on inputs from sensors and code.

[@ForwardGuidance]

Awesome happy sincere good job excellent way to cool love these videos keep up the excellent great superb awesome entertainment much appreciated.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks 👍

[@brianb-p6586]

What is shown @4:21 is not a pouch-style _battery_ , it's a pouch-style *cell* . The unit shown at 4:41 is a *module* , which is technically a battery (a group of cells), but since it is intended as one component of a larger battery is never called a battery by itself in automotive use. If you don't use the terms "cell", "module", and "battery" correctly you'll just confuse people... and you know the correct terminology.

[@rajay2864]

Sir can u pls tell which application u use for graphic designing?

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Not sure what you mean?

[@melb77]

thank you for the metric & celcius

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Just for you!

[@pdibbs11]

Great video on battery thermo management, but have you considered the possibility of using super capacitors in addition to batteries? I understand it adds a level of complexity, but my thought is that it will also reduce the stress that generates heat battery from high energy demands. What’s your thoughts?

[@ElectricSuperCar]

I have thought about this. Supercapcitors are awesome! The only problems are the weight per kWh and the cost. Both are too high

[@pdibbs11]

@@ElectricSuperCar I’m personally researching for a different application in the aviation arena. My thinking that it’s not about the kWh per kg but more of toning down the peak energy input-output demands on a battery which causes thermal stress and short life span. Sure there will be weight and volume constraints but my thinking is battery thermal management provides a longer life span and cheaper replacement cost in the long run. Keep in mind that I’m talking about constant daily use of an electric vehicle (Aviation or Auto).

[@brianb-p6586]

The logic makes sense, but it is less expensive, simpler, and more effective to just use a battery of appropriate lithium-ion cells than to add a massive capacitor system to assist an inappropriate battery.

[@dougpark1025]

My wife was telling me just yesterday about a story that Tesla's were not charging in Chicago because it was too cold. Not sure if this is true but it makes sense if there is no provision to heat the batteries up to a point where they would charge. A couple of questions. 1) If a battery is very cold, say -10F can it be damaged? 2) If a battery is too cold to charge what mechanism is in place to warm it up and how does that work?

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Yes, batteries can sustain damage if charged below 0 degrees Fahrenheit. To warm up batteries, usually the high voltage system (battery) can discharge energy into a heating system to heat the batteries. If the car is already empty...therin lies the problem

[@fredmols8428]

Thanks for the great video. I might be wrong on this matter but I believe that Mercedes Uses thermal gap fillers because to have higher surface area. Also there is some thermal expansion and they do not want to have a air gap between cell and the cooling system. Both of your showed designs are not that great battery designs. Nevertheless the battery with aluminium heat plates will distribute heat all over the cell area and has more thermal mass which is also good for rapid power draws. The other design might have a problem where it getting hot in the middle. I do not think that you will have problems when you are driving the car in normal conditions (Unless you are tracking it). But I do think that CCS charging speed is going to be affected of this layout. Smart way is to start with batteries that have already built in cooling. If you compare the prices of those then it makes sense because there is not that big difference. At least in europe. But then you do not have that kind of modularity. At least you guys can get Lucid air battery modules that are in my opinion the best design that I have ever seen (Except some heavy duty vehicle batteries). We will see in near future smaller and real fast charging capable batteries but those are cooled completely differently. Current older designs have just too many heat transfer bottlenecks. If you have big battery then the load for single cell is not that great. But when you have a 36kwh battery that can fast charge km with the same pace as new EQS then these bottlenecks become a problem. Anyhow good luck. Also It would be nice if you would make a video about what you use for making your youtube content and also what channels have been helpful for you do learn how to make better youtube content. I believe that there would be many who would be interested.

[@ArdilloEngineering]

where I can find the LG chem batteries? not the Pacifica battteries

[@ElectricSuperCar]

EV West

[@brianb-p6586]

EV West sold the Pacifica modules, and when the supply dried up they found these other LG Chem modules (which are intended for stationary backup power systems).

[@Poxenium]

I like miss researcher research is good

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks!

[@JohnBrown-cn8xg]

Nice Video! (You got me) this is just a comment to help you with interaction under your video.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks for that!

[@J.P.__]

To be fair, you wouldnt (and didn't in your last build) just put the bartteries 'dry' on the cooling plate, you'd use thermal paste or better non conductive heat pads. I'm curious to seehow it performs real-world. It may still be sufficient in normal use.

[@brianb-p6586]

Both modules presumably have built-in temperature sensors designed to monitor cell temperature for protection - why not use them instead of probing the electrical terminal hanging off of the side?

[@pheuker45322]

Your most recent battery selection video + crazy cold temperatures made me think - Could one use an EV as Vehicle to Grid (V2G) in a relatively safe DIY method? Also had thoughts of a DIY lithium powered Golf Cart, which then would be able to backfeed. Do toy know of any currently available Tech? Would be awesome if an EVSE would allow this, but I understand it would require bidirectional control of the onboard vehicle charger, so thats unlikely.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Interesting 🤔

[@erikrummel6277]

What are the other battery packs from?

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Not from an EV, just battery packs from LG Chem

[@erikrummel6277]

Oh gotcha. Like backup batteries. I have some modules from server backups. Same idea, they just use the 18650 cells instead of the pouches. Love the videos, been watching since the beginning of the first car. Don’t let the haters and trolls get you down, you’re doing great work!!!

[@brianb-p6586]

Yes, they are backup batteries,@@erikrummel6277 They are not intended for EVs, or for any application with the charge or discharge rates of an EV. LG Energy Storage Systems (ESS) documents describe three series of cells (their description): ____________ High Energy: *JH4* • Duration for ≥ 3 hours • Continuous power supply Energy: *JH3* _(this is what you see in this video)_ • Duration for 1~3 hours • Continuous power supply Power: *JP3, JP4* • Duration for < 1 hour • High power supply ______________ In backup power applications, "High Energy" means a high energy density for long operation after utility power fails, at a moderate and continuous power demand. "Power" provides high power density for brief interruptions but can't store as much energy. "Energy" is the compromise between the others. A typical EV at peak power would discharge the battery is much less than one hour. That means that it needs - using the ESS terminology - a "Power" cell intended for high discharge rate. What EV West found and is selling is the JH3 "Energy" line. That is why they don't have heat transfer provisions - they're not intended for high charge or discharge rates. Specifically, this module is used in various combinations to form "Energy Modules": • four in 2S2P combination to form the M48126P3B, or • six in 2S3P combination to form the M48189P3B, or • eight in 2S4P combination to form the M48252P3B Those modules are stacked and connected in series to form "Racks", and Racks are combined in shipping containers for megawatt-hours of capacity.

[@junilupu1112]

Perhaps utilize dielectric liquid cooling. Battery submerged in fluid.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Interesting 🤔

[@RotorWorks]

I think you need a basic thermal camera too.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Sponsorship in the works

[@kiranp6679]

I guess using an IR thermometer is kind of a good idea....its cheap also

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Nice

[@BrianJNoah]

I was able to get my airpods working properly again with some electronics goo. Just pressed it into the mesh, and pulled out whatever was blocking the sound. Like new again.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Nice!

[@Zendukai]

When you get the EV jelopy up n running, could you perform 1 more test, tyres, could you stick, if possible, a brand spanking new set of tyres on the EV and new same set, on your gas vehicle, and please get the weights of both vehicles, cheers TIA if ya can :)

[@ElectricSuperCar]

👍

[@Zendukai]

@@ElectricSuperCar oh... and record distance traveled for how long they last. cheers, I think you know where I was going with this :)

[@scottpilcher473]

Hopefully ....( and I would wait , for you to reap the benefits ) .. SOLID STATE

[@ElectricSuperCar]

That would be awesome!

[@charlesurrea1451]

It seems those flat pack envelopes would really lend themselves to internal Cooling. I wonder how much bigger it would make the pack?

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Interesting 🤔

[@brianb-p6586]

The modules which LG Chem built for the Chevrolet Volt use internal cooling of that style. Some other plug-in hybrids (from Volvo) use the same design. They allow very high specific power, but they're too expensive to be justified for EVs which don't require the high power density.

[@CBWP]

This is a comment because more comments are better for your ratings. ;)

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks!

[@mauriziosozzi2722]

I have been following your channel, and recognize you have great skills and very good patience and perseverance in completing tasks, your projects are great and it is visually very easy to follow step by step what you are building. Question: I have a 2014 RAM 1500 EcoDiesel that I have a dream one day to turn it into a dual Tesla motors and proper battery pacxk...I would like to hear and honest evaluation from your prospective....how much would it cost and what kind of range can be achieved? Do I even need two motors ? Or could I get away with one RWD or Front Wheel Drive? Would you be able to undertake such project? Do you know if the result would be a street legal vehicle ? Thank you fpr your attention and keep up with the good work you do! Maurizio

[@brianb-p6586]

If all you want is the vehicle, just wait for the Ram EV truck or buy a Ford F-150 Lightning (stick "Ram" badges on it if you need to), and spend whatever hours you would have put into the project earning money to pay for it. If you want a recreational and educational project, go ahead and build something... but understand that it will be inferior in every way to the production EV.

[@mauriziosozzi2722]

@@brianb-p6586 Thank you. Straightforward , helpful advice. I appreciate.

[@ozencaytekin5350]

👌

[@robinorca2877]

the pouch can conduct electricity

[@ElectricSuperCar]

No

[@josephjones4293]

My only comment is… buy a work bench… when you have the finances. You’re gonna hurt your back work on the floor like that. I am curious about the thermal mass of the plate and it’s effect… it’s aluminum so maybe it will be negligible but in my mind it’s going to take time to raise and lower the plate temps.

[@ElectricSuperCar]

I think you are right

[@brianb-p6586]

I agree - it's astounding how often that people - especially those who make KZbin videos - unnecessarily crawl around on the floor wrestling heavy components. If you can lift it, put it on a bench. If you can't lift it, grab a cheap shop crane.

[@tylerwood4723]

Happy success kindness positive cheer benevolent praiseworthy

[@ElectricSuperCar]

Thanks Sir!