Battery Low Warning on a New Defender: How to Charge your Battery

[@promenteryrobbins]

Really handy info - thanks for sharing. I occasionally get the low-battery warning come up on mine, but usually if I try to listen to the radio while the engine isn't running. I had the exact same experience with my RRS. Good to know this is really just a safeguard from having the battery discharge so far that the engine could not be restarted. I'll now have to find a place where I can plug in a smart battery charger...Keep the videos coming Steven - always interesting and much appreciated

[@shedlock2000]

Thanks for the comments and support! I’m glad the videos are useful and enjoyed!

[@glenc9578]

Great video. This really resonates as I just had a battery failure in my 2016 xc90. The battery failed and it took down/fried an electronic module that prevented the vehicle from starting once the battery was charged. I’ll be getting a charger when my new defender arrives! Thanks for the very useful information. Glen

[@shedlock2000]

I’m glad it’s helped a bit! Good luck with your new defender! I bet you can hardly wait - they’re fantastic vehicles.

[@glenc9578]

@@shedlock2000 yes, can’t wait. I hope you’re getting a kickback from Noco....just ordered a genius 5 👍

[@shedlock2000]

@@glenc9578 hahaha! I wish both Noco and JLR would sharpen their cheque writing pencil! Neither of them has done so much as bought me a beer! I’m sure it’ll be a fantastic experience! What colour?

[@glenc9578]

@@shedlock2000 eiger grey with the satin wrap.

[@shedlock2000]

Nice!

[@aliceandrew0190]

Live in the UK , just goy one for my defender 90 , works brillianly , thanks for your help

[@shedlock2000]

You’re very welcome! Glad it’s working for you!

[@FastAsFunk]

Thanks for this video. Just got a D240 HSE at home here in Lancashire. Have put it on a CTEK as I also got the low battery warning. CTEK is decent kit so hopefully isn't going to blow anything up with its intelligent charge and super low ripple current. It's taking some flippin' charging though, I'll give you that.

[@shedlock2000]

I am sure you'll be ok with it so long as it is set to charge an AGM battery (the charging process is different for different types of batteries, and you can damage an AGM battery if you use the wrong charging setting.

[@CrueLoaf]

Great video. I’m pretty certain that another sign of a low battery is the auto/start stop is disabled. So if you find your car not cutting the engine when stationary at a red light or a junction, it maybe a sign the battery is fully charged. 👍

[@shedlock2000]

There is a connection to the low battery warning and the auto stop/start, but on the P400MHEV, the stop/start is powered by the 48v system at the back (and the alternator is part of that system). As I mentioned in my recent review, there’s a TSB about stop/start calibration which was never done to my vehicle, so that may be part of the issue. However, friends of mine who have had theirs calibrated still have primary battery condition issues which require the battery being manually charged.

[@ricovancouver]

Fast forward to 5:25 if you want to skip past all the “preamble”. Connect only an AGM charger, negative post first, then positive, then plug in the charger. Then you might as well stop watching after that.

[@shedlock2000]

Context and rambling isn’t for everyone! Thanks for your comment!

[@WizzardPrang]

As a result of the first UK lockdown I was always getting the "Battery low, start car" message on my Discovery Sport, right up until I traded it in for my new Defender 2020. So thank you Steve for this video 👍🏻, think I'd better get a charger now we're in lockdown 3.0 - it looks like I won't be driving any decent distances for a while.😢

[@shedlock2000]

Sorry to hear that things are in Tier 5 over there! Hope you’re staying safe. You will see the battery low warning quite often. It took only 3 hours for my battery to be back to normal, so it’s not a long process. This unit (the Noco 5) is design to stay in the vehicle and to simply plug-in when you need to - sort of like a trickle charge affair. I’ve not set mine up like that, using it like a regular conditioner.

[@WizzardPrang]

@@shedlock2000 Thank you! I've ordered the Noco 5. With 2 daughters' cars sat idle plus the Defender it will earn its keep for sure.

[@dhmountainbkr5452]

Do you know if the lower states will come with an AGM battery? I live in Nevada. As you know I ordered the 90. but, long way from receiving it. My current LR3 has a normal battery. Thanks again!

[@shedlock2000]

Yup! All the defenders are fitted with an AGM battery. They’ve shifted to AGM due to their increased cycle charging and better performance. I doubt you’ll see a LA battery in any Land Rover now.

[@dhmountainbkr5452]

@@shedlock2000 Thank you very much! I also have the Noco Genius 10 so I will be ready!!! Hope you are having a good New Year!

[@dhmountainbkr5452]

@shedlock2000 how often should you charge the battery?

[@shedlock2000]

@@dhmountainbkr5452 Good question, that. And I’m not sure I’ve much of an answer because I haven’t seen how long it takes to drop the charge. I also imagine that each persons’ use is different. I run a lot of high-a page auxiliary equipment and while I’m driving only very short runs, so I expect my current drain is significant. I’d recommend throwing the charger on once a month to boost the charge. It won’t do the battery want harm and would help you keep on top of the battery.

[@dhmountainbkr5452]

@@shedlock2000 Yes, my LR3 has been sitting more than moving. :(

[@pb6972]

So can I stick my battery charger straight on like you did..I have a 8A charger 12v battery charger..I have defender

[@shedlock2000]

Yes! But with the new defender you need to make sure that your charger has a setting for AGM batteries, as the charge process is completely different (using a standard charging cycle on an AGM battery will damage it). AGM stands for Absorbent Glass Material and the traditional battery type is Lead Acid Battery (LAB). The way they work is completely different and they need charging accordingly. Most recently made chargers have both functions - check yours before you use it.

[@pb6972]

@@shedlock2000 brilliant thanks...👍

[@shedlock2000]

@@pb6972 You’re very welcome! Glad to be of some help!

[@stephenmadone1230]

I have a Silver-Calcium SMF battery in My Land Rover Discover 4 / LR 4 here in Australia. I haver the car parked for sometimes weeks or months, especially during the recent lockdowns and I often have the CTEK smart charger connected via a rear Anderson plug. A bit of battery maintenance 101 saves money and mitigates risk of being immobile at a time where you want to be mobile.

[@shedlock2000]

I found out recently that back charging through the trailer electrics (which worked up until this model) has been possible, but the L663 has an integrated switch which isolates the back feeding of the vehicle from the trailer (handy when you don’t want to drain the TV battery when your towing a caravan). As a result, it’s not possible to maintain the battery this way - an and design plug would work, of course, but you’d have to wire one in (easy enough given the connections under the bonnet).

[@stephenmadone1230]

@@shedlock2000 , yes these new cars have PCB circuit boards and gizmos all over them. On My D4 I have a unique dedicated circuit direct to battery and it presents the Anderson plug on the back. I guess you could do the same on the Defender if you didn't want to open the bonnet/hood - depending on your garage layout and where your mains plug and charger is, you could have an external plug front mounted. That could be useful for other things when camping and the like. The thing is to remember you are plugged into the wall and not to drive off until disconnecting. So actually having the bonnet open is not so bad.

[@shedlock2000]

I have thought about installing a front mounted Anderson plug - but I’m also fitting a winch at some point, so I’ll likely do it when I’m running wire for that!

[@pqvid]

Steve, another great video! 👍 Besides the very detailed information, I always enjoy your dialect -- what kind is it exactly, actually?

[@shedlock2000]

Hahah! That’s a very good question! It’s really from all over - I’ve lived in Canada for the last 15 years, but I grew up in rural Peak District of Derbyshire. However, I’ve travelled extensively over the years and have all sorts of influences. The present Mrs Firth says that I get broader when I talk with folks back home, and I know I intentionally correct myself when I teach in an effort to be clear. Perhaps my dialect comes out more when I record these videos because I’m more relaxed!?

[@tomasz6426]

Hi Maister! Can you help for Maine defender

[@shedlock2000]

I can try. What do you need, exactly?

[@grahamwest1079]

I have a noco charger that has a permanent battery connection as getting to the Defender Puma battery is a pain, though not as difficult as it appears on the new Defender hence the need to have the additional posts under the bonnet. I leave the charger in the car and just un plug it when I go out and plug it in on my return.

[@shedlock2000]

There’s a few people leaving the Nocos installed. My charger is meant for permanent installation, I just don’t have it wired in because I also use it to charge the present Mrs Firth’s Rangy.

[@geektarded]

Anyone else from the US, just turn on the captions 😮 Mine hasn’t gone dead (yet), but I’m grabbing one of those chargers from Amazon for when it does.

[@shedlock2000]

🤣🤣 good job there’s a translation! lol In my experience, they struggle the most in cold weather or when camping. But topping up the battery from time to time will also help maintain your battery life as well! Good luck!

[@DonFather]

Thanks for this video Shedlock2000. I just want to ask how many hours you need to charge your battery from 25% or less up to full. Thanks.

[@shedlock2000]

You’re welcome! I’m hoping it was useful. A full charge (to a solid green light) from about 25% takes at least 8 hours with my little Noco. I can reduce that time significantly buy forcing a charge with my bigger charger, but I prefer to leave my Noco in overnight (as it is a smart charger and reduces the push current according to the battery’s charge level). The overnight charge is, I’ve found, the best way to manage the battery level. It requires little effort (apart from remembering to remove the charger) and the battery is ready to go in the morning. I charge once every couple of months, but I could do it once a month. The Noco charger is likely less accurate (or, perhaps somewhat misleading) in representing the battery’s charge level. However, it will charge it correctly. The AGM batteries are very good at developing a sufficient push current to start and operate critical systems, but they are clearly suffering when it comes to maintaining a proper charge level through the smart alternator.

[@DonFather]

@@shedlock2000 Thanks for the reply, fellow Albertan, haha. Yeah, I bought the same Noco 5 from Canadian Tire yesterday and returned it today because of the misleading "full charge" light. I thought it was defective. I wish I had read your comment earlier today. I bought a Motomaster instead to try. It seems to display a more accurate reading of 60% now, after the Noco charged for 4-5 hours last night. I charged it for another 2 hours or so to reach 80% but now the Motomaster shows that it's pushing 13-14V and I'm worried that may be too much, so I pulled it out. Maybe next time I'll just put it on 2A charging instead of auto to see how it does. As a side note, I wonder if these AGM batteries let any chemical fumes out because the charger manuals often mention to be careful of that. I'm a bit worried because the Defender's battery is inside the passenger compartment.

[@shedlock2000]

Haha! Where in Alberta are you! There are a couple of things of note. AGM batteries require a special kind of charge device. These are often referred to as ‘smart chargers’, but that’s so a misleading term: smart chargers can charge many battery types and reduce/increase their current to suit (not voltage). Lesser battery chargers tend to demonstrate voltage increases not current increases. The best kind of charger is one which spits out a constant voltage with a reducing current. The battery’s charge is increased by pushing charge into it. That charge comes with a voltage, but the more full the battery gets the harder the battery charger has to push to squeeze it in. Over pushing can damage the battery, so good chargers are able to trickle charge the top-up rather than push really hard by increasing current. I’m not fully sure of how that distinction is completed electronically, but it’s also the idea behind the smart alternators that are becoming more common now! The Noco’s lights can be a bit misleading, but I’d take the Motomaster back and pick up the Noco again. Motomaster’s stuff is ok, but it’s fairly basic tech compared to the Noco’s stuff and May end up overheating (or over-pushing) the battery. AGM batteries do not have a liquid acid in them, so they can’t be boiled dry. However, they can easily be damaged by the wrong kind of charging (voltage based charge not smart charging for AGM batteries). Depending on what your Moromaster is designed for it may also have an AGM cycle, but I’m hesitant to trust it over a Noco (one is a well researched, well reputed developer of battery related tech; the other is a mass producer of budget electrical gear made in zee China. An AGM battery contains thinner lead plates surrounded by a glass matt material (this paste contains the electrolyte which conducts the electrons out of the lead plates). The batteries are sealed and have a valve which reduces the amount of evaporated water which can leave the battery through charging or operation. When you charge a battery, you pass a current through it shoving the electrons back into the plates. When you use the wrong kind of charger, the current bashes through anything it can, breaking up more water molecules and producing gasses not electrons on lead plates! Thus the AGM battery becomes damaged. The trick with charging AGM batteries is patience not speed and power.

[@darrenrobinson781]

Thanks for another great video. Daft question time! Having struggled to keep my battery charged through the various tiers of lock down to date & as we are now in a country wide lock down I was starting to look at chargers. Looking at Halfords they have a Noco genius 5 for cars etc up to 120amps & a Noco genius10 for cars etc upto 240 amp. Ive looked at the i manual and find no reference to amps etc, so is this simply the power/charge rate? Will both chargers do the job, or should I stick to a 5amp inteli charger? Thanks Darren

[@shedlock2000]

The amperage is related to the charger not really the vehicle. The amperage of the charger is related to how much current you can shove into a battery (the more current, the quicker the charge). But AGM batteries should be charged only with smart chargers; you can’t charge them with with regular chargers. I would suggest that the Noco 5 would be more than sufficient to keep a battery in good condition, but it’s not a rapid charger and can’t be used to start a dead vehicle.

[@darrenrobinson781]

@@shedlock2000 Many thanks and as suspected. Ive got a smart charger I leave on the bike.. It’s very good at keeping the battery in good health. Will get the Noco5 for the car All the best Darren

[@atoieno]

I have an update from a recent experience. Whilst camping a long long way from a power point I got that message that also said that I should start the engine. I did so, running it while we had breakfast. Of its own accord after an hour the engine switched off. I figure that a fiendish algorithm had decided that the battery had been recharged sufficiently. My bluetooth battery monitor indicated below 12v when the message appeared and 12.7v when the engine switched off.

[@shedlock2000]

Oh! That’s very interesting! I’ve not heard anyone say anything about an auto-off thing! Interesting to note that it also took an hour to recharge the battery. I’m a bit suspect of idling engines due for many reasons; I wonder if the design of this function has been considered by the engine designers.

[@atoieno]

@@shedlock2000 To avoid the risk of bore glazing it would be sensible to limit time idling without load so perhaps there is method in Land Rover's madness.

[@jont3354]

Interesting The advice on my Disco 4 is: don’t charge your battery - take it for a 30 minute drive or take it to your service garage! Hasn’t stopped me from charging the battery though.... need to check if it’s glass mat or lead acid though. Does the Defender have a subsidiary 12v battery for stop-start , like the Disco? Enjoying your channel 👍 Jon

[@shedlock2000]

Hi Jon, Yes, there’s a secondary battery system for the stop/start - on the P400 I believe (though I’m not certain) that it runs off the MHEV system. I can’t speak to the P300s, though it’s an interesting question; I’d imagine there’s a secondary battery.

[@Davidrobertwhittaker]

I don’t get it. Why wouldn’t the alternator charge it fully on a moderate drive? In every car I’ve ever come across if battery is low something is draining it, the alternator isn’t doing it’s job properly, or the battery is a dud...? Maybe I’m being dim but I’ve never heard of anyone having to ‘regularly’ charge a car battery...

[@Davidrobertwhittaker]

PS thanks for all the videos! All very interesting!

[@shedlock2000]

Hi David, That’s a bit of a complicated thing to answer. The answer, in short, is that alternators (as opposed to dynamos) don’t ‘push-in’ charge - they only return the battery to its original level. Consequently, if the battery is iteratively and progressively drained (such as subordinate electronic drains over night or short trips with heaters, lights, and such on), then the battery level will slowly be dropped. In addition, standing a vehicle with many electronic systems on it will progressively drain the battery and the vehicle (even with smart charge tech) won’t ever return the battery to its full charge. My Landy spent at least a month on a boat and another month waiting to be loaded on a train (plus however long the train took), so he was never charged fully. Together with short trips at -40°c and heavy use of lights, heaters, and the like resulted in my battery level dropping progressively to a critical level. The vehicle would prohibit (as best it could) further drain by isolating non-critical electronic and electrical systems, but that still won’t resolve the issue. To do so requires a ‘push’, through either a dynamo or a charger.

[@bryanlatimer-davies1222]

David I agree with you, the idea that you need an external charger because of the the cars charging strategy is absurd. To say that the car thinks the charge is low and it will only return it to the same low level regardless of how much you drive!

[@shedlock2000]

It’s not that the car thinks it’s charge is low (the vehicle can tell that there is a low battery, but this only affects how it’s able to warn the owner), it’s that the alternator isn’t capable of ‘pushing’ charge into the battery. This is simply a function of how alternators work (across all vehicles). The older technology, the dynamo fitted in the ‘40s and ‘50s would charge a battery - but alternators won’t and can’t. Land Rover, in the ‘80s, produced military radio vehicles. Because of the current demands placed upon the batteries, these vehicles *were* fitted with dynamos (usually 24v) and there was no such issue. I can’t tell you why current automobile manufacturers went with alternators over dynamos, but they did (and, presumably, there’s a good reason).

[@bryanlatimer-davies1222]

@@shedlock2000 the reason alternators were adopted is that they provide a charge even at low or idle rpm the 24v dynamos on FFR vehicles had two speed gearboxes built in to the dynamo to provide sufficient charge for the radio if the vehicle was used while stationary. If the alternator is incapable of charging the battery what is its purpose? If you change the battery on many new cars you need to reset the parameters such as AGM or lead acid the battery capacity at least, if different I simply do not think an alternator is incapable of pushing a charge into a battery.

[@kri8ive786]

Boss i love this vehicle, i am having defender 110 - 1987 But mine is diesel😎

[@shedlock2000]

Love a diesel! Had many! Sadly, the new defender six cylinder diesel won’t be coming to Canada 😞

[@JosephTMeiroseIV]

Nevermind the few ppl that say you ramble on too much and get sidetracked from the main topic of your videos. Your videos and channel are not for them. Besides, it helps me get used to your accent. ;) I live in the States, northern NY, with mixed driving trips of both long(ish) and short trips daily. Our winters are quite cold. I've tried to comprehend the necessity of push charging my battery and the differences between an alternator by watching your YT video and reading all the comments there. I've never heard of needing to do this. Is this because you run aftermarket electronics plugged into the vehicle and frequency "car camp"? Why wouldn't this be a more well known necessity? Seems like quite a bit of hassle and monthly maintenance for the "normal driver" of a vehicle. I have a new Noco GBX45 so would this work to push charge my MY22 Defender 110 P300? Thank you.

[@shedlock2000]

Hahaha! Thanks for saying that, Joseph! I guess it’s kinda my style, now! Northern NY state! That sounds fantastic; the fall colours there are phenomenal. I’ve often toyed with moving to NYC because it seems a very vivacious place to live. The reason for the iterative discharge is complex but it’s not a function of additional electronic gadgetry (which I don’t run and don’t draw power, once the ignition is off and the alternator isn’t providing power). Nor is there an issue with the alternator, which pumps out lots of amps in the MHEV systems and enough in the non-MHEV systems. I believe that the MHEV vehicles have a smart 48v alternator, but I think the P300 has a smart 12v alternator. The 48v system is quite complex, and there are some secondary batteries in the boot of the vehicle to run the MHEV systems, so the 12v system becomes slaved to the primary 48v system (or so I understand). It seems more to be a fact of life when running so many on-board electronic systems - especially when many of them are still engaged post ignition and on various wake-up cycles. I can’t clearly explain why the situation arises, just that it does (the latter being demonstrably proven by simply measuring the battery’s condition after a month or two of use); though my guess is that the storage medium of the battery is depleted by ongoing post-charge activity which generates a sort of ‘cap’ in the battery charge which the alternator can not then push beyond. This is a well understood phenomenon of most alternator systems and is reported many times by battery and automotive websites online. The amount by which the battery discharges is a function of an individual’s use, regional climate variations, power needs, and so on, but the fact remains everyone who has measured their battery’s condition over several months finds their battery iteratively discharges. I’m not familiar with your charger, so I can’t advise on whether or not the Noco you mention would with (I suspect that it would) - but make sure it has an AGM mode and you’ll be fine to use it. Absorbent Glass Material batteries require a different charge protocol, and whatever charger you use must be be switchable to an AGM charge cycle. Is it a hassle, yes. Absolutely. But I don’t make the situation occur, I’m only advising you how to avoid the vehicle spouting ‘battery low; start engine’ warnings at you! I’ve camped 30-40 times in my defender and I’ve only twice had a battery low warning; both times before I noticed the iterative discharge. I should also note that I’ve had a battery completely drain on me overnight, such that I had to manually open the door with the key and boost the vehicle. There were no lights or electronics left on and the cause of the drain was never determined (though it correlates with a check engine light caused by an O2 issue).

[@tomasz6426]

Maister my defender (Ingenium) no Laden bateríi can KZbin help;)

[@shedlock2000]

Can you explain more what you mean about “no Laden” battery? Im afraid I don’t understand. Are you trying to say that your battery is dead and won’t charge?

[@tomasz6426]

Battery new alternor new no charging

[@tomasz6426]

All fuse ok

[@shedlock2000]

Hmmm. If you’re sure it isn’t charging (and by that I mean that you’ve measured the current to the battery while the engine is running), then I suspect you have issues with the battery control circuitry. From what I recall, the new defender has a smart battery charging circuit, and when replacing the batter (or alternator) the charge cycles will need to be reset and that the vehicle will need to be ‘told’ that there is a new battery and alternator installed. I believe that you will need to plug it into Pathfinder to add that kind of information. I’m not absolutely sure how the smart battery charging circuitry works, but I suspect that there is a battery control module which may be broken or working badly. However, to diagnose that you’ll also need Pathfinder (pathfinder is the Land Rover computer - very few independents have one).

[@sarahgillespie5333]

This was absolute gibberish. I could barely watch it with his ridiculous rambling!

[@shedlock2000]

Thanks for your thoughts, Sarah! All feedback is appreciated.

[@SunilAndRekha]

Too much irrelevant talk ....lost interest

[@shedlock2000]

Thanks for your input. I likely won’t change that aspect, as it’s part of who I am - if you want direct, I’d suggest watching another channel.

[@togetherweperspire6379]

Way to much talking dude

[@shedlock2000]

Thanks for your feedback. Talking is what I do!

[@stephenlyttleton9032]

That's what your mute button is for. I enjoy the rambling as there are nuggets of good information dispersed therein. Great videos!

[@shedlock2000]

@@stephenlyttleton9032 😊