Minding Your mAhs Ep022 - Li-Ion Battery Myths and Facts

[@kurtl.7362]

I would think by now that the whole vaping world be watching your videos. Always useful and much better to be informed than ignorant. Thank you!

[@stormreaper6436]

Hey Mooch, as someone

[@batterymooch]

Thank you for your kind words! I’m glad my videos have been helpful.

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

There's a user like you in every kind of enthusiastic pursuit, and I'm grateful to all the Battery Mooches of the world who help discerning consumers avoid getting taken for a ride.

[@keenandaviesg8187]

I watched 2 of your videos, and I subscribed. It doesn't take long to realise that you genuinely know what you're talking about, and care about your viewers safety. Thank you for making things easier to understand.

[@thugglyfeog8382]

Haven't gotten a notification for a while my dude. Thanks for all you do for the community mooch.. we all learned so much and still learning a lot from you.. Amazing!! God bless you mooch👊🙏👊

[@scottr6469]

Thank you again for all you do Mooch! As a father I really appreciate the YT videos, I don't think I've had the time to read more than a paragraph or two in the last few years :)

[@sebastiaanvos9964]

If you were my teacher in school i would have payed more attention, thank you for the lesson 😁😁😁

[@alo254]

I stopped vaping a little while ago but I still enjoy these videos. Thanks again for keeping us safe Mooch!

[@forest3]

Can't say enough about how much I appreciate what you are doing. Much respect, thank you and wish you all the best.

[@Chevyv8man1]

Thank you my friend for helping everyone with answering these common questions. People that haven't watched you before don't know a lot of these answers and videos like this will help keep them safe. Very well done. Again thanks for all you do for us. Later

[@bimotribawono7003]

It's already ep.22? Whoa, I remembered waiting for ep.2 being uploaded 😅. Well, I learn new thing about the hotness of 18650 (li-on) cell. Thank you Mooch! Best regards, Bimo Tribawono

[@d.b.9959]

Thank you for the fact's Mr MOOCH, It's always nice to see you're video's... I hope life has been treating you & the FAM good and I am truly thankful for what you do for the community

[@antonispapadatos8780]

Huge respect for your infos through your videos Sir!!!

[@randomguda]

1) so glad this man is making these videos, I'm a seasoned vape user and I have learned so much from him. Resources like this are so important and I wish I had done more research when I stated making my own coils (nothing bad ever happened, I just like to be informed). 2) does anyone else feel like Mooch probably loves MST3K? I just feel like he watched that show and enjoys it a lot.

[@batterymooch]

Thank you for your kind words! I haven’t seen MST3K in a long time but I used to watch it regularly.

[@darthvapor9817]

thanks for the info. mooch your the man when it comes to this stuff and on batts. as well, love the vids. have learned a lot but still need to know more, keep up the great work.

[@RustyWarrior]

Thank you very much Mr. Mooch for your hardwork! Love the series.

[@dburto13]

Awesome job Mooch! Thanks for the work you do!

Awesome job Mooch!! Always appreciate your contributions to vaping and battery safety!🤜💥🤛💯

[@grumpyoldben]

I’m Always learning something new with these videos ... thanks as always !

[@j.b.6855]

Thanks for putting out the facts Mooch. I am a low wattage mtl vaper and still very much respect batteries. I would rather be safe than sorry with something close to my face.

[@9ballsantamaria]

Thank you so much Mooch!

[@DDRR00]

Thanks for delivering this important information in a charismatic way - It makes you easy to listen to.

[@cladmarti1780]

Thank you Mooch for another great video, i learn more about batteries on each of your uploads! A coworker bought a 9000mAh battery from China and he was surprised he could not fire his mod with it. I explained him the reality of those specs because i learned this watching your videos. Thank you for educating us to batteries with your great knowledge Mooch! (sorry for bad english)

[@kna60]

Thank you for this update about voltage cutoff different from 2.5v. In this way, other lithium battery enthusiasts who are not necessarily vapers will have the right information. I'm sure there are some who appreciate the quality of your work, besides me ;)

[@daveflowers3070]

You sir, are a pillar, in this community... thank you verry much for your hard work.

[@TheWraithkrown]

Thanks for the video Mooch! You made it and we appreciate it.

[@robertmitchell5367]

Excellent job Mooch. myths explained!

[@thedanishvapingviking8473]

THANKS a mill for killing all those myths. Hmm can the internal resistance change in a cell. say today it is 100 mohm, can it be less next time, or will it always get higher and higher? Wonder why, so many chargers do "offer" refresh etc, when it kinda doesn't do anything (good). Is it just sales gimmick?

[@johnrhodes3350]

The refresh cycle is for the Nickel metal hydride like AA , AAA, C, D cells in children's toys, remote controls etc.

[@batterymooch]

Internal resistance goes up as the cell ages but not nearly as fast as the capacity goes down. “Refresh” can work for NiCd/NiMH cell’s but not really for li-ion. If they market that feature for li-ion then it’s just marketing IMO.

[@ianswt]

Thanks John for clearing up and clarifying some of the misconceptions out there. Awesome video as always 😎👊

[@CarlinhosPuig]

Thank you, Mooch! Good stuff! Mooch is King!

[@Rodskilotski]

As always,a very informative video and a refresher to what i learned from you too years ago.Thank you!

[@handyhippie6548]

how large a difference in mAhs can you use in a battery pack? i am building batteries for e-bikes from reclaimed cells, and reconditioning tool batteries for a resale warehouse. i know they should be close to the same, but how close? can i use 1900's and 1200's in the same pack? having a hard time finding an actual capacity range.

[@batterymooch]

That is a number you set depending on your requirements (how long the pack needs to last before replacing cells, cells in series only or series/parallel, etc.), and the capabilities of your BMS. It might be a very narrow range of capacities or it could be a very wide range depending on your needs and your BMS. There’s no way for me to choose a number. Of course, the tighter the range of capacities, internal resistances, and self-discharge current values for all the cells the easier it is to keep the pack balanced.

[@louchitchat]

Thank you very much for all your effort and information

[@billysgeo]

What about LiFePo batteries in water???

[@batterymooch]

Operating them underwater? Most batteries are hermetically sealed but the positive contact can be eroded from electrolysis unless it’s distilled water. Just not recommended to operate batteries underwater. Best to put them in a waterproof case.

[@billysgeo]

@@batterymooch No, no... I was talking about damage/fire resulting from accidentally dropping LiFePo cells in water.

[@batterymooch]

BIll Geo if they are round cells then nothing should happen as water isn’t conductive, or is only a tiny bit. Heavily contaminated water can conduct a bit more current though. If any electronics go into the water along with the batteries then anything can happen, it all depends on how the electronics react. I recommend never letting any batteries get wet though as rust/corrosion can start and that is a problem.

[@billysgeo]

Battery Mooch thanks for the answer man... so don’t throw my LiPos in the Dead Sea, got it! 😆 But I was mostly talking about the chemistry of the lifepo reacting with salt water. But I guess they won’t happen in a non-damaged cell

[@batterymooch]

BIll Geo yea, a sealed cell isn’t anything to worry about. There’s no metallic lithium in our rechargeable li-ion batteries so even a cell that has been opened up will not react badly with water or salt water (except to slowly discharge in salt water).

[@damianparish2442]

Thanks again for the great info mooch 👍

[@rudyflores3021]

Thank you mooch. Love the info you put out.

[@WILDWILL53]

Happy to see a video from you hope life is well

[@RobinTaiwan2008]

Great video! Thanks a ton and I'll be sure to spread the truth around.

[@billysgeo]

Have you done any testing on the myth/fact that charged batteries are less "bouncy" than depleted ones? (I seem to remember only NiMh being mentioned though)

[@batterymooch]

No, I haven’t. It’s true but I don’t remember for which chemistry though.

[@bluejean445]

Would my batteries be in continuous use if my vape is not in use but not powered off? Like idling?

[@batterymooch]

Yes. But only a little bit of current is flowing. How much current is being drawn from the batteries depends on whether the display is on or not and whether device has “gone to sleep” by itself or not though. It can be a few microamps to a few milliamps, depending on the device and what it is doing.

[@bluejean445]

@@batterymooch ah, thought so. Thank you very much for that info!

[@alaskavaper966]

Outstanding video, Mooch. You are a true dispeller of myth and BS about batteries used by vapers.

[@adammajor5169]

Great video. I suggest try the Battery Pack Calculator (Google play) . The application allows quick calculation of basic battery parameters (up to 9999S 9999P). Build-in 37 popular cell type + you can add own.

[@laithbelbiesi3348]

Legend !!! Thank you so much for everything you do

[@jaymiller3759]

why do new 18650 batteries fail in the first few uses? I bought 20 online and 2 of them will not charge after 2 or 3 uses? Thoughts???

[@batterymooch]

How do they perform now? Zero volts? They could have been fakes or they could have been used too hard and tripped their internal protection device (the “CID”).

[@AMKpolka5]

This was so great! Thank you my man :D

[@darthvapor9817]

also do you sell batts and battery bro says they only sell grade a batteries what do you think about them?

[@batterymooch]

Sorry, I don’t sell batteries and I don’t know anything about the batteries that BatteryBro sells. I haven’t heard anything bad about them though.

[@jamesmancuso3666]

Always a great day when (Mad Dog) Mooch posts a new video

[@srbontrager]

Being I prefer lipos, I live by a general rule. Never go by burst c rate. Always go by continuous discharge c rate.

[@tobiasripper4124]

thanks mooch! very helpful as always. im curious about something (unrelated). is there a formula to know how many amps are required from a battery when the mod does boost converting? like, if i want to vape a high ohms coil, lets say @20w - 6v, and the battery is at 3v, how many amps is the mod sucking from a single battery to boost convert?

[@batterymooch]

Boost or buck, it,doesn’t affect the calculation. Only the wattage and number of batteries affects the battery current. Check out Ep3 of my Minding Your mAhs series.

[@tobiasripper4124]

@@batterymooch yes, i know: watts / #of batteries- watts / 3v / 0.9=Amps from the battery. i just thought that boost uses amps to elevate voltage (compared to buck that uses voltage to gain amps). and i was wondering if there was a formula to know the amps required to boost from 3v (battery charge) to 6v for example.

[@batterymooch]

tobias ripper it just doesn’t matter if the regulator is in buck or boost mode. The batteries don’t know what’s going on in the regulator. All they “see” is the power requested from them. A regulator operating at 75W in boost mode will draw the same current from the batteries as one operating in buck mode (assuming 100% efficiency). If you are in VV mode (not VW mode), or are doing calculations for a standard power supply and not a mod, then calculate your output power and use that number to calculate the input current after choosing a regulator efficiency number. It won’t matter if the power supply has bucked or boosted its input voltage as input power = output power + efficiency losses, no matter how the output voltage is arrived at.

[@batterymooch]

tobias ripper so, for a regular power supply if we have 3V input and we want 6V output at 10A that’s 60W at the output. 60W / 3V = 20A needed at the input (assuming 100% efficiency). For a mod set to 20W, your original example, it doesn’t matter what the output voltage is. Just the 20W setting. Use that in my equation and you’ll get the battery current for any output voltage the mod can do as long as it’s still set to 20W

[@Scorpio-wk8bd]

Could I just ask when charging 3 or 4 batteries one of them will have a red light after a while instead of the green fully charged light - I've took it to mean the batteries with a red light are no good now. Is this correct?

[@batterymooch]

I don’t know. It depends on what your charger uses the red LED to indicate. Check the user manual for the charger. It might just mean it’s still charging.

[@Scorpio-wk8bd]

@@batterymooch Its a NiteCore new i4 but the manual doesn't mention red LED. Thank you for your reply, as the manual doesn't say and you don't know I'll take it that those batteries haven't finished charging and the green ones have - wish manual would state this.

[@batterymooch]

Scorpio 3736 umm...the instructions do talk about the red LED. 🙂 It comes on when the charge current is set (or switches to) 1.5A.

[@Scorpio-wk8bd]

@@batterymooch Oh heck, these old eyes ain't working - I just got a magnifying glass out and found that section with red LED! Really sorry to mither you. All the best from a doddery old fool 👴

[@batterymooch]

Scorpio 3736 no worries! 🙂

[@valerieseder7736]

Thank you so much for your help you are fabulous

[@JBDigit]

Great, great, wonderfull job my friend

[@tallat8888]

Thank you for the proper information 👍

[@erollbrown9719]

Can you test BASEN 18650 battery pls

[@darthvapor9817]

hey mooch great job love the vids., so what batt. would you recommend for me i normally vape all day around 80 or 90 watts i use an rda with a build normally from .2 to .14 some where in that ball park, i have an 18650 dual mod the voopoo 2, the one with the sliding doors, hope i gave you enough info. thanks for your time.

[@batterymooch]

For up to 90W in a two-battery device try the Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6. For up to 120W try the LG HG2. For up to 150W or if chain vaping, try the Sony VTC5A. For up to 180W try the Samsung 20S. Keep the plastic battery wraps in PERFECT condition at all times and use a good external charger on a non-flammable surface and only when you are around and awake.

[@Worldtraveler01900]

How to dispose 18650 batteries correctly? There are boxes in local stores where people dump their empty batteries. But a 18650 is not a AAA or a CR2025 battery. So i don't think it's a good idea to throw a 18650 or 21700 into the same box. Might be a silly question, but what is the proper way to dispose them?

[@batterymooch]

Just wrap the exposed ends well with some duct tape, or other sturdy tape, and that will prevent any contact with metals or other batteries. Then bring them to one of the electronics or home improvement stores with a battery recycling bin. If one of these stores is not nearby your town may have a municipal recycling center or location you could contact to see if they accept batteries for recycling.

[@australianjames1114]

Great job mooch

[@LuisBita]

Thanks 🔋 Mooch 🙌

[@MicheleLynnDullDime]

Great information as always Mooch.

[@transman11]

Thanks, Mooch for a refresher course. Plus I always learn from your videos. outstanding.

[@micha5645]

Thank you!

[@chonedog]

Great informative video.

[@NeroWolf42]

Love watching you, mooch. I'm surprised we don't see you vape on your videos tho o.o

[@batterymooch]

I won’t vape in that room because I don’t want anything sticking to the circuit boards inside my test gear. Most have fans pulling in air and over time a film of eliquid can form inside. This might affect their operation and would definitely gather up lots of dust, affecting the cooling of the electronics. Any coating on the circuit board would certainly increase the cost of calibration too. Vaping during my videos would just make them longer and they’re too long for some people already. I can go without for those few minutes. 🙂

[@NeroWolf42]

@@batterymooch that makes sense. I was thinking it was separate rooms for video and testing. I have one question however. Has in mod charging improved in recent months? Like with the digiflavor edge mods wireless charging?

[@batterymooch]

There is a testing station in the other room but the main station is directly to my left in the videos. Any vapor made during a video would definitely get in the equipment. 🙂 Sorry, I don’t know anything about how well they do that charging. I haven’t tested the charger circuits for any mods this year.

[@jmaritato1633]

Great job as always! 👍👍

[@chantaldowling4342]

I’m sort of a newer vaper and have heard a lot about Hohm Tech batteries.... I noticed that particular brand is not on your tables. Have you tested that brand?

[@batterymooch]

Yes, I have. There are, IIRC, at least five of them in my 18650 and 20650/20700/21700/26650 ratings tables. The full test reports are also in my master list of test reports. Follow the link to my blog at ECF to see everything. Welcome to our community!

[@PINKFL0YD-s2h]

I have 12 married pairs and it's surprising how they wear out. It's a cost you need to factor in especially if you have 21700 and 2700s also. GOOD to see the old NIMH stuff being put in the bin

[@zachmikkablair9537]

Idk y ppl r so concerned with reviving batteries. The batteries we use arent that expensive. Considering how long of a life we get outta these batteries theyre realatively cheap. Just recycle. I try to recycle my batteries as soon as I recognize a drop in performance. I am guilty of storing batteries for. I already have a handful of sets I rotate and quite a few single batteries I rotate so it's hard to rotate that many batteries. I run multiple set ups but im not vaping super subohm so in most of my devices im only swapping once a day. Some I only go thru one battery or set a day. I appreciate all u do for the community. Idk what we'd do without u

[@SproutyPottedPlant]

Do you think one day us MTL vapers could get a hold of a NiMH powered vape?. The Batpack had a junk tank but a 4x AA maybe could make a nice vape!

[@batterymooch]

Possibly. It would be big and heavy compared to a li-ion battery powered one though. There’s no electrical reason why it can’t be done with several NiMH/NiCd cells in series.

[@glendecuir6317]

And thank you mooch

[@thoby4674]

Thanks Mooch

[@CraigandJane1]

Thank you.

[@justinv3080]

I can't remember if you've covered this before but are hometech batteries rewraps? I've heard they are LG manufacturerd to their specs.

[@batterymooch]

Getting the last of the full production cells in a couple of weeks and will be testing all six types of Hohm Tech cells then.

[@howell603]

Thanks dude for the true truth! ✌ out

[@davearonson5416]

Awesome mooch many thx 👍🏻👌💨🇺🇸☝️🙏😎

[@paulpower7018]

Good to know thanks

[@charlesgaut1887]

Thank you

[@RainWalker24c]

One I always been curious about is "Charging above 0.5A will reduce battery life". 1-4A should be fine on majority of 18650s etc & I really see no reason why it would reduce battery life. Well besides the obvious, being able to use the battery more often. Besides that, I don't see why it would.

[@batterymooch]

Faster charging creates heat and that accelerates aging of the battery. I believed that going much too fast can also cause lithium to “plate out” onto surfaces inside the battery and this causes a loss of capacity since the lithium is no longer available for use when discharging.

[@RainWalker24c]

@@batterymooch Thanks. I keep forgetting, just because the battery feels cool/room temp by hand doesn't mean it is inside.

[@frankface7288]

I hope we can keep a free and open internet where we can keep sharing information. I fear we are getting closer to having our communications shut down once again. They feared the printing press, they feared VHS. Lets hope we can stay free from the ruling class and it's heavy handed tactics.

[@lordanthrax2417]

Thanks from germany

[@DTMbro]

Mooch the mythbuster 👊

[@tms4208]

thanks

[@mikeburgh3956]

Mooch!!!👍👍👍👍

[@charlschuck6]

Minute 34 I have those ultrafire batteries that came in a headlamp and I had the idea it was over rated but never had the tools too test that, and I noticed battery lasted almost 10-15 min max anyways I then changed those cells to some heavier batteries 18650 anyways upon checking I noticed some 18650 charger ( over charge this cells) . So I had time to test and some where red wrapping mas other was the topical 5000mah ultrafire well it gave me 268MAH hahahahah what a joke . Don’t trust so much the wrapping label you must as a consumer if your doing a project bench test each cell it’s time consuming but better use something that will work and not crazy or fail after it’s done . Sony 1600mah claims 30a max but again discharge will make voltage go down super quick in seconds making 4.2 go to 2v in seconds not so good to discharge your batteries more than 1c in my experience

[@klaytonvonkluge4905]

excllent info THANKS

[@VincentFischer]

another myth is that batteries from aliexpress have honest sellers that never lie

[@GreatBoneStructure]

I learned stuff.

[@4BillC]

Just saying... I really want to put one in salt water now... Not going to but damn do I want to!

[@billysgeo]

Also... myth or fact, what's the correct pronunciation of "mAh"??? Is it "maaa"?

[@batterymooch]

I don’t know if there’s an accepted correct pronunciation. I pronounce it “mah”.

[@irfansantiko5849]

Mungkin anda akan mendapatkan banyak subscriber, like dan viewer dari Indonesia jika terdapat terjemahan dalam bahasa Indonesia 😉

[@batterymooch]

I do not understand but I hope you found the video useful. 🙂

[@atw98]

Samsung has a 3600mah. Have a 3s1p pack of them, batteries supplied by Samsung.

[@batterymooch]

Found the INR18650-36G...that one? I don’t think that is 3600mAh as it doesn’t reach anywhere near that in the tests I have seen. I can’t find the datasheet though. Do you have a link to it? Lots of places say it’s 3600mAh but they could be just going by the “36” in the model number and not actual testing.

[@atw98]

@@batterymooch Na these came from a batch from Aust armed forces on of their Sub Techs makes my flying packs so would be surprised if it wasn't 3600. It certainly charges with an RC charger to 3600 without warning up. If it was less in my experience it would blow up as I made that mistake before. And we use lipo charge rather then Li-ion so we get the full charge. I can check for you though see if he can send data sheet on return. But as I said I'd be really surprised if a sub engineer and the Australian government would tender and take a battery that wasn't what it says it was. And remmber we only have diesel/Battery subs so I'm sure that all their test gear would pick up a shit cell in the lab.

[@batterymooch]

Angus Whitehouse but we don’t know what capacity the cell says it is. No one has seen the datasheet. 🙂 The “36” doesn’t have to mean 3600mAh. The Samsung 35E is rated at 3350mAh. That could make the 36G about 3450mAh, about what I saw in the tests. Quite a few chargers are very inaccurate too, tough to trust them unless you’ve seen test reports for the charger. It’s not a crappy cell just because it doesn’t fit what we might think the capacity should be versus what it actually is rated for. A cell can’t blow up because it’s capacity is lower than what might be expected. In fact, that actually results in a lower cell temperature since the run time is shorter. If you’ve had cells blow up on you it was for a different reason than just having lower than expected capacity. 🙂 If you do find a datasheet you can post a link here or send it to me at [e-mail]. Thanks!

[@atw98]

@@batterymooch I think ur over complicating it. These cells if on market or only supplied to order are 3600 mah 15c/amp peak 20 for whar it is, 30 secs. And your right. Here a mining company bought 5mil worth of cells that didn't preform to speck. They spent 10k on testing in their own lab and 2 blind labs to make sure all their tests confirmed the same findings without polluting the data. There where only 2 companies that produced cells that offered 98% of state charge. Every other companies batteries came in at below 87%. They tested 10 brands and found the cells they should have got but never as far as I'm aware got their money back for the 5mil spent. I'm very confident that these are 3600 mah otherwise the people that brought the world wifi disposable contacts and more of the world's leading tech inventions then most other nations combine are very inept.