Battle of Beats: Ableton Move vs. Novation Circuits! [Reaction Video]

[@ambiyond]

Been aiming to get a Circuit Tracks but this quickly becomes a major condender for one huge reason: The ability to actually break out whatever you have been working on into a full DAW for additional arranging and production. I think that is a wonderful workflow.

[@lectronin]

I agree that the production potential is probably the biggest distinction between the two units.

[@spectralknights2]

And there's room to grow from firmware updates 😀

[@ItsTheMajorScalebro]

I agree I just think there needs to be a workaround for only 4 tracks, like resampling, or some sort of grouping method.

[@kierenmoore3236]

Do you already use Ableton, tho’?

[@spectralknights2]

@@ItsTheMajorScalebro how come nobody complaining about MC-101's four tracks 🤷

[@M1kst3r1]

Circuit Tracks is the brains of my semi-portable synth setup. As it stands I could maybe replace my Tracks with Play+ or Deluge, but both of them have multiple downsides I don't want to deal with. Ableton Move isn't really ticking too many boxes for me as I don't want to use a DAW. I really enjoy using the pads as a screen and for that Move seems ok. Circuit just does it a lot better. I just wish Novation would make a Circuit Tracks Pro. Would be an instant buy.

[@lectronin]

I understand the sentiment. I enjoy working both in and out of a DAW. The Circuit Tracks can be a great tool for inspiring musical ideas. However, its limitations make it difficult to translate those ideas to other units or DAWs for release quality production. I'd like to claim the time I put into the Tracks creating my ideas through easy transference to creating a releasable track. I think your idea of a Circuit Tracks Pro is very interesting. What additional features do you think would qualify it as Pro?

[@kierenmoore3236]

This should force Novation to merge their Circuits, if they aren’t almost finished making one already, to compete … so forget Tracks/Rhythm? Just Circuit Pro?! 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@lectronin]

@@kierenmoore3236 Circuit Pro ... Very interesting.

[@djofortunato5799]

The main attraction of circuit tracks is on-the-fly sequencing and not only sending midi but recieving audio that can be side-chained to the drums. If there is a efficient way to perform these functions native to the Move then it will essentially solve issues I've had with Circuit Tracks from the start.

[@lectronin]

Yeah, I was just wondering if there was a way to side-chain tracks and pads on the Move. I think it does offer more assignable tracks specific FX than the Tracks (which has to have synth FX pre-assigned in Components).

[@qualitytrainingcentre]

GREAT‼️ comparison. Thank you so much. I’ve watched some video’s of the Move vs the Cicuits, but nobody explained it this well. 👍🏿

[@lectronin]

Thank you for watching and sharing your encouraging words.

[@stevengain9488]

Dusted off my Tracks while waiting for my Move to ship, I forgot how good 3 year old Tracks is at controlling other synths on MIDI3 and MIDI4. Now that I think about it, it's had a lot of the features of Move all along.

[@lectronin]

I think the Tracks is a better central sequencer/brain, and probably better overall for performing. I think the Move might have the edge when it comes to translation to production.

[@ChaswellQuint]

You can't even load 64 GB of samples on to the Rhythm, so the SD card, in comparison, isn't an issue. Also, you can just access the files with any device, no USB connection. This is a circuit killer. The track limit is not really a big deal in comparison to the other devices either. The drum track is "polyphonic" in that you can use multiple samples for the same step. It breaks out the individual bits (if you use Ableton) and has audio over USB. I'm seeing some major upside here. Touch sensitive knobs, so you know what is mapped to what macro... numbers instead of shades of color...

[@lectronin]

Agreed on the drum track. I believe one of the Ableton representatives stated that meant you could have 64 monophonic "tracks" running at the same time (4*16). On the 64GB storage, 50 of which are available to the user, a swappable medium would potentially allow for quicker exchange of projects, especially for performance. However, it seems that Ableton had pre-production more in mind than performance.

[@chrisliddiard725]

Everyone keeps citing the Circuit because of its looks, but the recent hype for OP-1 makes it very clear TE considers the MOVE their strongest rival. WI-FI and cloud connectivity, which is so easy these days, make this a game changer. It is standalone, but it's also very connected. All this with a proper audio interface too. As for 64GB, if it's SSD, that will quickly get upgraded. Just clone the drive.

[@kierenmoore3236]

@@chrisliddiard725. WiFi? That’s cool … Cloud subscription? No thanks.

[@kierenmoore3236]

Track limits could be upgraded via a Firmware update … ?!

[@lectronin]

@@kierenmoore3236 I'm hoping that might be the case (although not counting on it). I think opening up a couple of MIDI only tracks (like the Circuit Tracks) might be a possibility. It shouldn't place a lot of demand on the processor. They'd just have to add some sort of button combo to the hardware to access the extra tracks. We'll see.

[@GeorgeL909]

I hate to say it, because I got some good tracks out of it, by the Rhythm was crippled from the start and they barely updated it. Scales, project chaining, missing, very low sample time, sd limitations, no options for glide, it made 90s Casio samplers look like gear from the future. It has a great distortion knob though. Got a lot of mileage out of that.

[@lectronin]

The Move is supposed to have something like a 4 min. sampling time, even allowing for stems. That's a vast improvement over the Rhythm. In favor of the Rhythm, it has more performance oriented features than the Move seems to have.

[@chrisliddiard725]

The MOVE may look like the Circuit, but given all the recent hype this device is really an OP-1 beater. It doesn't just play samples it also has a couple of synth engines. How many groove boxes can boast a proper audio interface. If I didn't have the Push standalone, I would be looking at this. It's a quarter of the price. It has enough of the Ableton methodology to make it useful, yet makes putting a beat together much simpler. Like the PUSH it still relies on the DAW to complete a project. That said, you could use this for live sets, I don't think i would ever consider a Circuit or OP-1 for. The big surprise is that it has a Raspberry Pi 4 inside with only 2GB of memory.

[@lectronin]

That's interesting. I didn't realize it had a Raspberry Pi in it.

[@djkanyon]

"How many groove boxes can boast a proper audio interface".... dude.... my tiny Aira toys by Roland have it... let alone Roland groovebox series that was able to do it back in 2000s.

[@chrisliddiard725]

@@djkanyon yeah, i'd forgotten about Roland's answer to the Korg Volca. I suppose you could use the sampler version for audio in, USB out.

[@djkanyon]

@@chrisliddiard725 do you know bit rate on Move? 16 or 24 bits? For Ableton 24 bit\44.1 was the standart for a long time, it would be a damn shame to change it everytime you take your music from Move to laptop Ableton

[@professorbiohazard4271]

Already ordered mine. Want to replace my original circuit with it. Working on loops and song ideas on the go and then importing easily to Ableton is how I wanted the circuit to work this whole time

[@lectronin]

I've ordered one, too. That interoperability with Ableton (one way) is filling a gap I experienced with Novation's units.

[@kierenmoore3236]

You guys both use Ableton already?

[@lectronin]

@kierenmoore3236 I've been using Ableton for a couple of decades.

[@professorbiohazard4271]

@@kierenmoore3236 yup. And 90% of the time I'm just loading in a bass a synth or two and some drums to play around. So this lets me do that exact thing while not being at my computer. Then import it to expand on it. It's like they designed it specifically for my use case

[@DNHarris]

Hope you enjoy it! It came next day from Sweetwater for me. So fast I didn't even know it was sitting on my front porch on my busy street for 12 hours. *shocker* Thankfully the porch paint nearly matches Kraft brown. LUL

[@synthsoniq]

While the Ableton Move looks like a cool product, I'm not sure how much crossover there is between potential Move customers and those who use a Circuit Tracks. Even though it can operate as standalone hardware, the Move comes across more as a "supplemental" device to use along with your DAW, as creative tool to help with workflow and putting ideas together to be expanded later in Ableton. That's great if that's what you're looking for. I have a Circuit Tracks and it seems to me to be more of a standalone box to get a pretty complete idea down, and also to be able to "perform" on it. I need my drum sounds on individual tracks so that I can mute the kicks, or mute the hats, or the percussion as I'm performing live. If the intent of the Move is to have multiple different drum samples on a single track to make the most efficient use of the four total tracks, I don't know how muting just the kicks or hats while performing would be accomplished. The Circuit Tracks also has multiple full-size MIDI ports and 1/4" audio inputs to easily integrate external hardware synths into the Circuit Tracks audio workflow, all of which I need. So maybe the two products are just different tools to fill different needs. If I used Ableton Live extensively, I imagine the Move would be high on my list of products to get. That said, I'm mostly DAWless, so the Circuit Tracks is great for me.

[@lectronin]

Thank you for your well-explained comment. From your description of your MO, I think you're right about the Move. I feel that the Move is more of a production or pre-production unit (even Ableton describes it that way), and the Novation units are built with performance in mind. In my experience, I can get away with certain performance units like the Roland JunoDS on stage, and they are perfectly acceptable to me and the audience. However, recording with the sounds on the JunoDS is unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. I don't know that I find the output of the Circuit Tracks to be as unacceptable (although the sampling leaves something to be desired). However, I've had difficulties in adapting music I've created in the Circuit Tracks to Ableton, Logic, or other configurations I might use on stage as part of a larger show. That being said, one of the reasons I picked up the Wolfmix lighting controller is that it does work standalone, and it controllable from the Circuit Tracks. I guess, at the end of the day, I want to see how the Move works as a stand-alone unit, and if it's possible to integrate it with the Novation units in such a way that they complement one another, which is why I've ordered a move. Again, thank you for your comment. I found it very thought provoking.

[@synthsoniq]

@@lectronin Thanks for the kind words. I agree, the more all of these various boxes can integrate together, the more useful they become above and beyond what they can do alone. That's what drew me to the Circuit Tracks. I have four main hardware synths that are my primary sound generators, so the Circuit Tracks is perfect for me. I control all four synths via MIDI on each of the four synth tracks (I use the internal synth tracks with external gear), routed through a mixer and back into the Circuit Tracks to be combined with the internal drum tracks. It's like they made this thing just for me! I agree, "exporting" your audio from the Circuit Tracks is not the most seamless. To get individual tracks, I guess the best you could do is just play each of the 8 tracks one-at-a-time into a DAW through an audio interface. I've been recording my finished songs straight from the Circuit Tracks to a little Zoom R4 multitrack audio recorder, and that has fit my needs. I can export the Zoom R4 digital audio as a stereo file to my laptop for any minor edits that need to be done, that work well on a stereo file. Thanks for all your great content on your channel.

[@chrisliddiard725]

Well if you're going to say that. I have a Korg Electribe 2 and that is even more of a stand-alone than the Circuit. And it has a screen ;0)

[@kierenmoore3236]

Agreed. Move is an Ableton satellite device, really (“standalone”, hmm, kinda) … The fact I can just plug a small USB keyboard into it makes the Move more interesting for me, though. I’m always looking for the perfect mobile songwriting sketchpad … but I want keys!! 🙃

[@synthsoniq]

@@kierenmoore3236 I'm with you! I use a tiny Novation Launchkey Mini with my Circuit Tracks when I'm going portable. It's a perfect little setup for a backpack. When I'm home, an M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61 works great with it too.

[@GrayedSchool]

I’m excited

[@lectronin]

Me, too. Already ordered one.

[@DNHarris]

I bought a circuit tracks and haven't used it. A few days ago I saw a Canadian YT talking about the Move. I'm like w00t?!! I watch the video and ordered one. It is a blast. I don't sell gear at all and I am considering selling my Circuit Tracks QUICK, though I want to experiment with using Circuit Tracks some first. As some had commented the Circuit Tracks is similar but different enough (midi sequencer) that it may warrant keeping. I need to take it out of its case and give it a go. Even though the Move's screen is tiny it is helpful. The total lack of screen has always been a bit of a negative, even for a scratchpad/groovebox like the Circuit series.

[@lectronin]

I think holding off on selling your Tracks for the moment is a good decision. I think the two units (Tracks and Move) may be complementary in a mixed performance/production environment. I don't know that they complement each other, but the Tracks is a better performance unit, acting as a control hub for a group of DAWless units, whereas the Move will be a portable device for sketching ideas. I've used the Tracks in production, and I've seen people performing on the Move, but these aren't their strengths.

[@djofortunato5799]

Ive had this same thought - I sketch ideas on Circuit Tracks & treat my ableton workflow somewhat separately , because transfering projects is so dang complicated. I've gotten used to a nice multi-tier appraoch - my studio & two portable setups are split into hardware based section, driven by the Circuit Tracks, and the Midi / Ableton setup, driven by the Push. They meet in the middle in my studio & projects exist only as audio recordings for final projects in ableton. Having messed with Note and Koala - the ableton project export efficiency is where the process flows smoothly. I'd be tempted to keep both Circuit tracks & sell some other gear to get the Move. Then see which one dominates my process, overall. This certainly ticks many boxes, that's for sure & is currently threatening Circuit Tracks role in my workflow.

[@lectronin]

@@djofortunato5799 Thank you for your comment. It’s given me food for thought. I have a Move on order. Once I’ve received it and tested it, it’s bound to re-contextualize the Circuit Tracks (and Rhythm, and the SP-404 for that matter) place in my studio and workflow. Right now, I think the Circuit units still have a little more going for them in terms of live performance, while the Move would be more of the production sketchpad.

[@hvhvgitaar]

I have a Circuit Tracks and used to have a Rhythm but sold it because I didn’t want to be tethered to a computer to manage the device. The Novation devices are very cleverly designed but are tragically let down by the lack of a display , which makes it impossible to effectively do any sound design (ever tried to use the same sound on more than one project?) and its extreme dependency on a computer for sound design, management of presets and samples. They are fun devices but are shockingly overpriced compared to the competition including the Move, which has an enormous amount of features exceeding the Circuits. The Move looks good value but it’s not for me. I don’t see the point of a “sketchpad”. I want one platform where I can write my songs and finish them, apart from perhaps final mixing and mastering. Saving for an MPC key

[@lectronin]

@@hvhvgitaar I’ve noticed the same issue with the Circuit units. Even though I thought about going into Components to manage packs and create my own synth patches, I find its implementation of file transference to be dissuasive and non-compelling.

[@DNHarris]

Yeah, I picked up a tracks earlier this year. I bought a case to store it. I haven't even picked it up to play. I have had the Move for a day and have already sketched out two songs on it with what little time I have.

[@word2RG]

vs Roland mc-101

[@lectronin]

Interesting. I've never worked with the MC-101, but it has four tracks as well. The S-4d has from synth parts, plus a rhythm track, but it doesn't have an equivalent of the "clip" function, just a continuously running step sequencer per part.

[@DNHarris]

Funny as the MC-101 was sitting in my Sweetwater cart when I added this to my cart. I had to relocate it to my wishlist / maybe later list. I had long forgotten about the MC-101 when I bought my Circuit Tracks earlier this year (and still haven't used). Love the Move though, already skecthed out two different song ideas.

[@soma808]

The after touch is polyphonic

[@lectronin]

Yep! That's great news.

[@weisland2807]

think i'm gonna get one to use with the kids. great price point and features. then next year i gotta save up for a digitakt 2..

[@lectronin]

I've considered something similar. I've purchased a series of iPads before in hopes in doing a production class using GarageBand. The relative simplicity and focus of these units could be potentially great in introducing students to music production.

[@DNHarris]

Have you tried Ableton Note? I wonder if they would be a worthy addition with the ipads?

[@davidholmes3776]

I wanna see how well it plays with other devices… No midi I/o is a worry…

[@lectronin]

Agreed, if you mean no dedicated MIDI ports. Even the USB compliant connection is either in, or out, but not both.

[@jonathanaguilar710]

Interested in this but i don't use Ableton. I wish akai would release a more portable unit like this with battery and built in mic. I'll probably pick one up used when all the people with GAS get over the hype, just to try it out.

[@lectronin]

I've heard a lot of people voice the same sentiment.

[@nomanshigh3058]

It will annihilate my bank account that's for sure. I get paid $25 an hour, my rent is $550 a week, this thing will cost $900 here in New Zealand. Just not an option. Circuits are $400.

[@lectronin]

I hear you. In the US (and other selected countries), Ableton offers a payment plan, but even then, it's still a matter of the unit's value to you and your workflow.

[@wmextra]

at last someone speaking my language, one day I was so hungry for the Push 3 When they posted it, I bought it on impulse. 2 years Later I still have a problem getting this 2k foot out my ass.

[@waddy707]

Mate I live in NZ, and I buy all my sub $1000NZD gear from overseas, as it’s GST exempt, and hell of a lot cheaper than buying locally. Only downside is warranty, but haven’t had any problems to date, touch wood!

[@lectronin]

@@waddy707 That's an interesting situation. In the US, buying from overseas is almost always more expensive.

[@TheJacksonscience]

This ableton device needs a “bad gear” review video

[@lectronin]

I think there are others who feel the same way. It's certainly a curious device.

[@AcidAlex]

Roland SH-4d is not class compliant so it won’t receive MIDI over USB as you suggested

[@lectronin]

You're right, it isn't class compliant. If I thought for a moment that I could run a USB cable from the Move to the SH4d, I was mistaken. However, a class compliant USB to MIDI interface like the MIDIsport UNO or the CME U2MIDIPro might be able to interface with the traditional MIDI ports on the back of the SH4d. I'll test it out when I get my unit.

[@janjansen3716]

@@lectroninhi, did you test this use case?

[@fillmac7320]

Great machine but I'll stick with Rhythm and Tracks 😑. Good video, thanks and greetings 👌🏼👍🏼😜

[@SonicVibe]

Same no hate though

[@krazywabbit]

same. you could get both rhythm and tracks for about the cost of the Move on the used market. After seeing what Gabe Miller did to them, they are not in any trouble by the move.

[@filmingkey]

I love my Rhythm but I always wanted a speaker and a better way to export my songs. As a Live user, this ticks so many boxes. But if you're not in the Ableton ecosystem there's probably better options out there.

[@lectronin]

@fillmac7320 Thank you for watching a commenting. If I wasn't so pleased with some of the results that I got from the Novation units, I wouldn't be considering the Move as a potential supplement that could help me bring my output to finished tracks.

[@lectronin]

@filmingkey I fully concur. I've been an Ableton user for two decades. At the time I started with it, there was nothing like it. Right now, my music workflow primarily incorporates Logic, Ableton, and DAWless units.

[@R3ND3RR0R]

Its cool, but 4 tracks is not enough. Get a Digitakt 2.

[@Geekraver]

Or render a track to audio and assign it to pad on the drum track.

[@lectronin]

@@Geekraver Yes. The fact that this is possible is a major bonus to the Move.

[@lectronin]

I've actually considered the Digitakt 2. It seems that it might be the only DAWless unit on the market that addresses my desire for drum fill/transitions performing with sequencers.

[@Kevinschart]

4 tracks is plenty. If you need more open you DAW

[@R3ND3RR0R]

@@Kevinschart I disagree

[@NakulKrishna]

If abletons track record is anything to go by, this will be horribly optimised, overpriced and non unique along with paid updates for every little feature.

[@lectronin]

I did hear that they've been experimenting with additional features. I certainly hope they don't come with an attached price premium. Roland has added incredible value and relevance to the SP-404 mk2 through continuing free upgrades. I just wish they would do the same with the SH4d.