Battle of Winterfell | How Game of Thrones Epic Conflict Collapsed Into a Comic Disaster

[@the_convexx]

To this day, I can't get over the director saying "this episode was meant to be only truly appreciated in a cinema"... for a TV show.

[@reelworld1]

Maybe Dan and Dave were angry that HBO refused to go along with their idea of ending the story with a film trilogy, but the network had the "crazy" idea of actually ending a TV show on TV.

[@middleofthebarrel]

​@@reelworld1 this was actually one of the few times (if not the only EVER) the network had to fight against the writers for a longer, better thought finale. It's crazy. Great content btw!

[@xenosaga8436]

Not sure how that would help. Shitty lighting and nonsensical storytelling are still going to be there in theaters. I still can't believe their explanation for Dany getting ambushed by the Iron Fleet. "She just kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet." She's flying through the sky! She should be able to see ships from really far away! Also, they literally talk about dealing with the Iron Fleet in the scene before this happens.

[@michaelmcguirk7979]

​@xenosaga8436 I've watched this in 4k and you can see everything a lot better.

[@xenosaga8436]

@@michaelmcguirk7979 Being able to see everything better is nice. Storytelling is still shit and it's kinda overshadowed by the fact that they already did an episode completely at night back in season 2 that had none of the problems this episode did. They were fully capable of doing it right. They just chose not to because by this point they no longer cared.

[@louisamay9615]

You forgot to mention the part where after Melisandre lights the trench, we see Jon just sitting by the trench...on a dragon

[@EL-ISS]

I also liked the part where Jon stands up in front of an undead dragon and just decides to scream at it. Only to get saved by a MASSIVE Deus Ex Machina 😂💀.

[@AlexanderMcArthy]

Exactly I was just watched it last night & was thinking the same thing.

[@thedelacruz]

Jon forgot longclaw was Valerian steel and hence a simple slash to Vyserion would have done the trick.

[@MegaSleprock]

yeah when someone could have literally just went up to the trench with a freaking torch instead of 5 minutes for her to talk to the burn pile

[@rebel2xtreme]

Watch it again and you'll see beric right next to the trench with his flaming sword......SMH

[@RafaelSantos-pi8py]

The cavalry charge was ridiculous enough, running into the dark not knowing where you're going. But to put the infantry in front of the trenches and spikes so that when they'd retreat they'd be funneled into a single line instead of being behind the fortifications and funneling the enemy into a killing zone. That broke my brain. And the cherry on top is to shelter the civilians in a crypt full of dead people knowing the enemy can raise the dead. -200 IQ move right there.

[@publiusthefederalist6843]

My whole thing is this - fantasy and medeival movies in general almost never care about strategy and realism. Lord of the rings has some scenes that don't make actual logical sense when you break them down. But this show surpasses that limit, I can't suspend my disbelief, everyone i was watching with when the dothraki died like that was like "Wtf how dumb are they?" not 'wow so scary' it was like "yea no f'n kidding"

[@EmyN]

I would cut slack for the crypt, weren’t the coffins made of stone? It’s surprising that dusty skeletons managed to break out

[@FroggyHopScotch30]

@@publiusthefederalist6843the difference is atleast lord of the rings had a good story unlike Got 🤣

[@Ecodude-cw7kg]

And what makes this even more ridiculous is the fact that Jon said that they can't beat them in a straight fight but sent them in a straight fight anyway. bs writing

[@SerfinBird]

Don't forget the magic unsullied and northern army. Winterfell was completely overrun almost no one should have survived but they still had the forces to sieze kingslanding from euron, the lannisters, and the very much undiminished golden company.

[@orcocan]

fellow nerds still grieving 4 years later, the north remembers.

[@edd4131]

😭😭😭may the gods give us a better ending

[@Ot_a_n]

Release the Snyder cut!

[@NRitchey]

We can still hope for an accurate adaptation one day. This franchise makes so much money, I’m at least thankful we are getting good adaptations for other stories.

[@cosmokramer7926]

Never before has a fandom so strong been snuffed out so thoroughly for me.

[@ex.tremist]

Not enough, What is dead may never die.

[@mct8888]

The best twist was the Dothraki coming back to life for the battle at King’s Landing.

[@DaBoomz13]

They needed them to respawn for the Battle of Kings landing to happen.

[@IceAlvaro13]

In my opinion the Battle of King's Landing is the worst of the show, If they only respect the living losses at Winterfell...it would be much more epic.

[@OGslays]

Last episodes were so trash I completely forgot about it this and I've had to rewatch the series 3 times with 3 different girlfriends since it released

[@antonego9581]

I just feel bad for all the cast and crew who apparently spent many weeks in utterly miserable night shoots only for this battle to become a meme

[@KickenItOldSchool]

Crew doesnt give a fuck they got good paychecks the whole time

[@Shorjok]

@@KickenItOldSchool Makeup artists and set dressers are paid far less than you think. It was 55 nights of shooting and it was horrible for everyone involved, because D&D decided that it had to be shot in winter and for real at night, despite hollywood knowing how to do day-for-night and fake snow for decades.

[@TheRustedShackleford]

​@@KickenItOldSchool they definitely give a fuck. And most of the paychecks aren't as large as you're probably thinking.

[@YouTubeBlowsDaily]

​@KickenItOldSchool most of them very much did care and we're highly upset with how the season in general was handled

[@leandrocastello309]

​​@@KickenItOldSchool Dude, just look at their interviews of around that date, the season hadn't aired yet and every actor looks throughtly miserable.

[@BoboThehobo-bt3fp]

I think the real core for our utter disappointment with Got is that we know not only that it sorely needed more episodes to fully cover the narrative they set out to tell, but that Dan and Dave knowingly pushed to make the last 2 seasons shorter in service of only their own careers, not giving a single fuck about the people who made their careers the FANS. Yes they lost the star wars trilogy, which is probably good for us, but not nearly enough of a punishment as they deserve.

[@reelworld1]

Exactly. Ego was involved too. They should have passed on the writing of the episodes to others, and reduced their responsibilities. They could've backed even further away and been primarily executive producers, and they still would've gotten credit if the ending landed well.

[@katkepin]

More episodes can’t save really bad writing. Even with the “content” they gave us, there’s so much unnecessary filler that they could’ve used to push the story forward even with the limited number of episodes.

[@phillippropst3825]

You sum up my feelings just about perfectly. Well said!

[@mnomadvfx]

"not giving a single fuck about the people who made their careers the FANS" You don't get ahead in the world by doing that. Doing a bad job simply to speed up your exfil is a big no no though - they ironically killed their futures at Disney by rushing to leave for Disney and b0rking GoT in the process thus showing that they were not trustworthy producers.

[@LucianDevine]

@@katkepin But their hearts weren't in it. So they should have passed on it to somebody who's was rather than kill a show out of spite. The studio wanted more time. The fans wanted more time, and the money was there. The only reason it ended so fast was because of D&D.

[@Scrowlock12]

How anyone can defend Arya killing the Night King, I'll never know.

[@reelworld1]

And the way it happened too, with her flying over a group of white walkers. The very least they could've done is have large contingent fighting white walkers (Brienne, Jaime etc) and Jon battling the Night King, and have him surprised that way by. But this was just ridiculous.

[@shawnlepine9645]

I think it makes sense. Cuz melessandra hinted it on season 2 or sum shit. When she names all the eye colors shes about to kill. Last 1 being blue. But.. yeah they did it really dumb

[@awongabroad5520]

They are feminists

[@Scrowlock12]

@@shawnlepine9645 I see what you mean but I also feel they were doing reverse engineering there. It just happened to fall into their lap. Melissandre meant someone else. We won't know until the books come out but I would bet it wasn't the Night King.

[@titanomachy2217]

The most indefensible part to me is how the Night King decides to lead his army when he is literally its only weakness. He couldn't have used his generals? The Night King is even more strategically idiotic than the Starks.

[@stuka80]

Regarding fighting the enemy outside of your city walls. There is examples of this in military history such as the battle of Dara, where the outnumbered Byzantines fought outside of the city walls, however, unlike the GoT version, the Byzantines placed their infantry and cavalry behind a series of entrenchments and funnelled the Persian attack through narrow corridors in those trenches. They also didn't send the cavalry in a frontal blind charge but instead used them to flank the enemy while they were engaged with the trench defenses. You know, actual tactics that make sense, not this Winterfell battle nonsense.

[@stevem2323]

They could simply said we have to many soldiers for Winterfell to house and we can't sit and wait on the walls to be overrun. Then we use that strategy you described.

[@romainandrieux5948]

@@stevem2323 alright then, but the simple trick would have been to build many trenches, shockpoints, wooden forts and to put the goddamn infantry behind

[@garrettlundy3959]

Just reminding everyone that the Starks controlled two other castles visited in the show: •Riverrun, castle on an island surrounded by water the wights cannot cross •The Eyrie, a mountaintop fortress accessible by a single pass wide enough for only a single purpose that makes the size of the invading army irrelevant. They chose to have their battle at the castle in the middle of a field easily surrounded. “We are going to make history gentlemen, this episode is going to piss off every soldier and historian that has EVER lived!”

[@reelworld1]

Yes they should've fought around the Twins where the area was more narrow and the larger numbers of the enemy wouldn't come into play as much. This could've been a great battle if they had a small contingent there to fight a delaying action so that the bulk of the army and the citizens made it further south. Having that group sacrifice themselves would've raised the stakes and added even more gravity to the threat.

[@ErikDayne]

I remember watching the show thinking the entire point of the Eyrie and the bloody gate was that they would eventually use that to make their stand against the army of the dead because it would mitigate their numbers. Boy was I wrong lol.

[@Donkeypapuas]

I remeber that the goal was to destroy the Night King, not to win a battle or stay in safe place. But it was a safe place everywhere? No! Because the Night King got a dragon who can be used as transport vehicle. And also he can used the dead peoples from the battlefield.

[@nicholasratliff1734]

If I were the night king I would have just bypassed winterfell. The north is huge. No reason he had to make a stand at the best castle.

[@reelworld1]

@@nicholasratliff1734 It would've also made for a much more compelling story, if he had gotten further south.

[@BrendaC-i9wv6ud6g]

I thought I was finally over this horrible episode that I looked forward to for months - your video brought it all back.

[@Jondantic]

Retraumatised indeed

[@stealth11]

If we had trials for idiotically filmed battles, the prosecution would only have to play the first 15 seconds of this, the "We can't beat them in a straight fight" sequence and then rest their case.

[@TheRealRedAce]

EVERY battle in EVERY show or movie is equally unrealistic.

[@betacuck3145]

Their punishment; being marched through the streets, naked "🔔 shame 🔔 shame 🔔 shame"

[@LeapFrogHopShop]

@@betacuck3145 Instead of peasants it's the actors and crew throwing things.

[@detective2221]

@@betacuck3145 Your name suits you

[@azno3442]

​@TheRealRedAce that's not the point. Not every show has had their characters say that they can't win in a straight fight and then have them try to win in a straight fight...

[@chardaskie]

It makes me wonder how this entire idea made it through to the end. Did D and D really have that much power that no one who saw how stupid this was could speak up? Stuff like this makes me realize I know very little about how TV shows are made.

[@reelworld1]

After Season 4 they stopped consulting Martin. That was the beginning of the end. Some shows will fire showrunners, but it depends on the contract involved. When AMC let Darabont go from Walking Dead he got a $200 million settlement from the network. So even if HBO wasn't happy with the product they might've not had the power to do much about it. D&D even managed to shorten the episodes in those final 2 seasons even though HBO wanted to go with ten like they had in the previous six seasons.

[@ivanjurcevic259]

Its like someone blackmailed D&D into ruining the best show ever... How are they the same people from earlier seasons?!

[@reelworld1]

@@ivanjurcevic259 Yeah, that's the thing that burns the most and why people are still bothered by it. They went from one of the best shows of all time to a parody of what they once were. Even if they had delivered a mediocre ending most people would have cut them a break due to the previous high quality.

[@betacuck3145]

​@@ivanjurcevic259 source material. They had the books in the earlier seasons

[@silverbirch-youtube]

I agree actually! The more I think about it as time goes on, the more I think there could be blackmail or external pressure involved in crashing this show (did the same major shareholders who're currently wrecking Disney have any involvement?). There's no way that D&D can't have known what they were doing in S7-8 was hot garbage, and the fact that all mainstream TV and film has 'gone bad' in the same way since GoT failed actually makes it look like more than just a passing case of D&D's rampant egomania and hubris crashing the most popular TV show of all time. From the vantage point of 2023, it looks like just another domino in the wholesale cultural vandalism of western entertainment that's been in evidence since around 2016. I mean, the show was admittedly on the slide since S5 after GRRM stopped polishing the scripts, but the sheer implosion in quality in S7-8 is hard to fathom. And yet almost every film and TV show nowadays exhibits the exact same type of failure that typified GoT S7-8: the contrived and timewasting fetch quests, obnoxious girlbosses, villainous behaviours from the 'good guys', lack of moral or philosophical meaning with over reliance on CGI and dumb set piece fight scenes, etc etc. It seems likely more than coincidental.

[@poling1990]

If Valerian steel (forged in dragon fire) can kill the night king than it stands to reason that dragon fire should also kill him. If he is immune to Dragon Fire then he should have also been immune to that knife.

[@reelworld1]

Exactly, unless there was something else special about that dagger then it doesn't make sense.

[@ricopena2053]

“We kind of forgot how Valerian steel was made” D&D probably

[@LPno.9]

Being forged by dragon fire doesn't mean that dragon fire is the only thing that gives them power or would be effective. That's like saying a sourdough bread tastes as good as chocolate cake because they both need flour to make when 95% of people know that sourdough bread is gross.

[@xytech7432]

​@LWno.9 Dragon fire is very different from normal fire, it magical fire that is hotter and does things that normal fire can do. Chances are the reason Valaryan steel is so different is because of magic. Your example doesn't work. Valaryan steel is magical. That's why Valaryans were the only one that can make it, it's literally just steel with magic forged into it. So why would magical fire from a Dragon( the most magical beast on the planet) have no affect when steel with magic does.

[@LPno.9]

@@xytech7432 My example works perfectly. Wheat flour is also magical. It can transform any group of ingredients into something delicious, nutrient rich, or filliing. Or disgusting in the case of sourdough. It all depends on the baker, the oven, the recipe, and quality of ingredients. The use if flour to bake only guarantees that it will bind what's in the oven. There could be other outcomes, but only few are certain. That's how you make shit. Cocao with flour makes amazing cakes. Vinegar with flour makes that stupid bread. Just because dragon fire is used in the Valerian steel recipe does not mean it's the only magic present or even the most powerful magic used or would matter against TNK.. Dragon fire could be there just as a support magic. Honestly, I used the most basic logic for creating anything, and it works for everything. With the whole process of creating Valyrian steele lost for centuries, no one can say exactly what in it would kill TNK. They also wouldn't know if dragon fire used directly on him would be as effective as tools made with it. There are too many factors, most of them unknown, to decide that the steele only works because of dragon fire or that dragon fire alone is enough The fact that you used the phrase "chances are" proves that you already know this is true. No one knows for sure. Sorry, babe.

[@liamdenise246]

Why it failed: -Too much plot armour, it felt so low stakes as almost everyone survived even Sam lying on the floor covered in wights, Brienne being pulled down and swarmed, etc, game of thrones is supposed to be the antithesis of common fantasy/literary tropes, where the good guys can lose and even wins result in big deaths even of main characters. -The lack of emphasis on the long winter, the long night, the fact that winters in westeros are notoriously severe and the fact the books show how drastic summer vs winter is, it didn't even get cold and severely snowy south of the north in show, and it ended far too quickly, the long night should have been a 3-4 parter of season 8 really, it feels so anti climatic to have it start and end in one episode. -The fact that the Riverlands, Dorne, Vale, Crownlands, Westerlands, reach never suffer from the winter or experience the long night is a farce, as it makes the long night so minor compared to the war of the five kings when it's meant to be the opposite. - The fact that everyone just treats them like a regular army and the dothraki charge is so dumb. -Jon not killing the night king. -Bran doing jack shit, is pointless. -Arya being made the killer of the night king and saviour despite Jon literally meant to be it and the whole song of ice and fire point, just to subvert expectations by hack writers. - Tyrion having everyone hide in crypts where dead can come alive easy. - Too dark. -Wights being far too slow and weak compared to Hardhome or the battle beyond the wall, to the point that they feel far too different. -Also Lyanna mormont killing a giant wight by plot laziness because they had to have the wight decide to pick her up and bring her close to it's eye since they forgot wights are dead made to kill only, not alive.

[@reelworld1]

Great points. They missed the core of George's story too. The main threat is the Long Night, not Cersei and a generic fight for the the throne. Most of Season 8 should've been about fighting the Night King and the army of the dead. The final battle should've been around King's Landing. You force everyone to work together, or the need to defeat Cersei first, so you can have the protection of the KL walls.

[@emhu2594]

Why it failed: everything was terrible

[@HDreamer]

After Cersei blew up the sept and killed nobles from almost all the houses of the South, she should have been politically dead, completely isolated, except for a few Lannister loyalists. Dany already had like 4 of the 7 Kingdoms before she even landed on Dragonstone, plus her own Army and Dragons. Cersei should have fallen at the start to season 7 or at least by the end of it, to free season 8 for the NK threat. Instead we get Tyrion wishywashy-ness, stealth Lannister Armies taking the Reach in one swoop and Euron BS.@@reelworld1

[@Donkeypapuas]

Wait a moment. Jon wasn't mean to be the killer of Night King. I His destiny (as a man of the winter) was to kill the woman of the fire (Daeneris).

[@masterexploder9668]

Game of Thrones started as a realistic (at least to a certain degree) show, where plot armor was seemingly nonexistent. Good guys were not saved from troubles just because they were good. If they made mistakes, they suffered and died for it. I also liked that Bran mostly used his magic talents to act like a creep or view the night Sansa was raped by Ramsey. WTF.

[@BDawg-hy7pl]

What’s so sad is that this was a cultural phenomenon! I remember being in high school and everyone talked about the show. Now nobody mentions it…. It had the makings to be one of those legendary shows like Friends or the Sopranos

[@reelworld1]

Despite some of the problems in Season 7, people would've still given it a pass if they'd just had a mediocre ending to the series in Season 8. I can't think of a show that fell so far, from one of the best, to one of the very worst endings.

[@TheRealRedAce]

Friends?! REALLY??!!

[@dsfddsgh]

@@TheRealRedAce 🤣🤣🤣

[@tereza1959]

Mostly iconic series have bad endings, Game of Thrones became the new Lost

[@TheRealRedAce]

@@tereza1959 Lost had a bad start and middle as well!

[@apleb7605]

Funny thing is that people said this would be even better than the Battle of Helm’s deep in Lord of the Rings, filmed 20+ years ago.

[@officiallyjan8596]

What makes the Dothraki cavalry charge *even worse* than it already is, is the fact that the Dothraki are lightly armored light cavalry; so they're not even suited for a full-frontal cavalry charge into enemy bulk even supposing it *had* been a valid tactic in the first place. Full frontal cavalry charges like that are a job for heavily armored (adding weight) cavalry with lances and the purpose is to break up enemy formations and cause chaos enough to potentially even make the enemies panic and route. ...Which is something the undead are inherently incapable of doing, so even trying it is galaxy-sized-void-of-a-brain tier idiocy that somehow experienced tacticians like Tyrion, Jon and Jorha all just signed off on. So to reiterate: They used a tactic that inherently cannot work against a foe that can't possibly be hurt by it, using soldiers not equipped for the job (Melisandre was a surprise, so the original plan was actually to send them in with weapons that can't even kill wights!) and threw away tens of thousands of lives that could've instead been manning the walls with bows since that's what they were *otherwise* also famed for being experts at.

[@reelworld1]

If Season 8 Tyrion had been around for the Battle of the Blackwater, Stannis would've taken King's Landing.

[@macvos]

​@@reelworld1No, some little girl would've stabbed him just before achieving victory

[@lauramartin7675]

the first hint I got that this was going sideways was Melisandre lighting those fricking blades. Obviously D&D FORGOT season 1 where we learn how much the Dothraki hate magic and witches. But not only are the riders themselves fine with the spontaneous fire erupting in their hands but also the horses aren't bolting at the fire above their heads. Also Melisandre's death should have happened when she lit the trench, with her body being engulfed along with the wood

[@LeapFrogHopShop]

Not to mention it does absolutely jackshit. The greatest Khalassar the world has ever known, snuffed out like a birthday candle on a cupcake. And we don't even get to see it!

[@ErikDayne]

That twist with Melisandre dying as she lit the trench would have been great writing. Man there’s so many ways this could have been better.

[@indyspotes3310]

So many times over the years I scolded myself for not watching GoT during its run. I felt like I was really missing the boat with this show. Then the last season came along and I heard the boat that I missed was the Titanic...

[@reelworld1]

They had a strong 4 seasons. The problems began in 5. Season 6 wasn't as bad, and then it was all over once we hit Season 7.

[@tiagoferreira5368]

ALL season except the last 2 were 10/10 masterpieces. The penultimate season was a 6/10, the last a 3/10. Because the narrative just got... Stupid.

[@NikoCigoj]

Your comment is poetry

[@Daz912]

It was never good bro don’t worry

[@tglake2894]

​@tiagoferreira5368 I think you're giving S5 and S6 too much credit. "Dorne", the rushed and stupid end to Stannis' arc, Littlefield suffering the loss of about 120 IQ points, Sansa needlessly getting the northern army savaged by Ramsay's because she wanted to keep the Vale army hidden from Jon for some reason, so on and so forth. S5 is where the true decline began

[@dannyn.6933]

I will never forgive Dumb and Dumber for what they did.

[@stevem2323]

Never.

[@michaelburley2905]

They should have done it with the sun going down like symbolism with the long night and we would have been able to see it

[@aggohyf]

or they could've just had better lighting. Blackwater's set at night and it looks fine.

[@rodmar1874]

Same with battle of Castle Black

[@tomlinsona0704]

Or under moonlight light they did in Lord of the Rings.

[@alechiggins6515]

All the build up to this conflict, could have been one of the most epic scenes ever. Instead they shit the bed.

[@reelworld1]

What made it even worse was the episode before it was a good lead in. It felt like we were going to see something monumental. Of course that one though was not written by Dan and Dave.

[@JR-bm8dl]

This battle makes me so angry with its stupidity! Thanks for pointing it all out. The darkness made it hard for us to see what was happening which was intentional to bring us more into the story but no one realized that if viewers can’t see what is going on, how do the characters? The Dothraki suicide charge is worse because the plan was for them to rush into the complete darkness. The trench should have been further out with the armies behind it and lit the entire time sob they could see what was going on. Their only hope with being that out numbered was to destroy them before they got close, so the actual hand to hand would involve less wights. The dragons should have been burning them from the beginning with flaming arrows from the Dothraki getting any that survived. This would have seriously impacted the fight when it got close to the castle. And burned bodies are less likely to be re-resurrected by the Night King. Oh, and in the middle of this loud battle Arya is suddenly hiding in a room as if she has been moved to the set of A Quiet Place. Uggh! Obviously I have not gotten over how this show ended. After this episode and the quick disposal of the Night King, I seriously considered not watching the remaining episodes. I frankly didn’t care what happened next.

[@reelworld1]

They should've have checked out the Lord of The Rings Battle of Helm's Deep to see how a night battle is filmed and you can still see what's going on. It really did though partially cover up the many times characters should've died. The darkness and the quick cutaways gave them nine lives.

[@TheRealRedAce]

Surely the characters not seeing what was happening was part of the Night King's plan?

[@Tehstampede]

Watching an alliance headed by the Lannisters with Tywin at the head would've been 420% better than what we ended up with. I'm convinced that the bad guys won Game of Thrones.

[@reelworld1]

Bran certainly comes off as the bad guy at the end. He can see the past/future, yet let all of the carnage happen so he could be king.

[@nomantslissail8828]

Tywin was a dead along time ago in the book before anything like this would happen. Your comment makes no sense

[@duckman9467]

@@nomantslissail8828hes saying if would’ve been better if Tywin lived instead of dying and the Lannisters held their dominance with Tywin at the helm. Then Tywin leading a coalition of sorts into the North to defend against the dead. Yes it’s different from the books and show but that’s what buddy is saying, that would’ve been a preferable alternative. What’s so hard to understand there?

[@manladan5929]

@@reelworld1 when in the show does it say bran can see the future? It’s always been he can see the present and the past

[@reelworld1]

@@manladan5929 It's the inference in the show, and the basis for their plan to have Bran waiting for the NK in the Godswood. If he doesn't have this supposed precognition of what the NK will do, then it's even more ridiculous that he's sitting out there in the open. Also, we have the cringeworthy line where Tyrion asks him if he'll be king, and he says, "why do you think I came all this way." So that shows he knew how events would play out.

[@ambushbob5383]

"We cant beat them in a straight fight" So lets charge them with light cavalry.

[@hhattonaom9729]

On the flip side d and d ruined their careers.

[@drakonlegend4452]

My only respite

[@brucetucker4847]

The suicide charge of the Dothraki was so brain-shatteringly idiotic that I couldn't take anything after that seriously.

[@reelworld1]

The only positive of the charge was that they let us know early on the entire episode was going to be horrendous.

[@mickieg1994]

They had the ingenuity to use trenches to protect the walls but not enough to actually structure a layered defensive line. Like 3 moats of fire and v shaped troughs open at the bottom to funnel into killzones, aim and mark the location for trebuchets and archers and you have something really useful

[@sean5558]

I thought that too, they could used every man woman child to dig longer larger moats further out and stuck in stakes face outward that could have slowed the charge and then launch the catapults at that point

[@mickieg1994]

@@sean5558 the Romans on the march, would construct forts nightly to make camp, this was easy as each man was only responsible for about 3 feet of the wall that needed building and a few things around the camp, so they could easily get it done in no time. There was apparently more than 100k troops there so there should of been a small town sized military camp, with multiple wooden walls, trenches and other defences as a standard already. I could rant for literally hours about the serious lack of decision making for this battle.

[@mivapusa]

"We can't beat them in a straight fight" *Fights a straight fight* *Loses*

[@RoachChaddjr]

This episode was a waste of celebrity time and resources we won't see again for a long time. Not to mention how agonizingly dark the scenes were.

[@reelworld1]

The few that defend it point to how long they spent filming the battle, as if time equals quality. But to me that makes it even worse that they had such a dark battle. You have all that film footage and you can't even put together something that is viewable.

[@RoachChaddjr]

@@reelworld1 Can't imagine being Kit Harington and rehersing that episode to exhaustion, only to be let down by D&D's scripting and the lighting department behind that episode.

[@79champions]

My wife and I were together on the couch. A little wine and some charcuterie, settled in to watch our favorite show together. We were bonding, having a common interest which led to us having the greatest of evenings, even after the show. A true treasure in our relationship. After this episode, all feeling was lost. Disgust set in. We slept in separate beds.

[@Coffelvlojlka]

Nigga He came to her

[@johnpotts8308]

In the Books, I wonder if they'll be a Battle of Winterfell at all. There are many references to there being certain mystical protections around Winterfell so it might be the case that the White Walkers can't actually enter. But the Walkers have (apparently) spent millennia preparing for this war so they can just besiege the castle and starve it into submission. I understand that on TV we need a battle (not that that couldn't have been fought more intelligently) for the visuals, but it needn't be the case "on page".

[@reelworld1]

Good points. Another theory too is that not having a Stark at Winterfell due to it falling, broke that mystical protection. From a strictly strategic POV they'd be best fighting the army of the dead in a place like the Twins. As you said, Winterfell can be besieged so it might need to be abandoned. I think the battle of Winterfell would've been amazing if they had a small contingent hold the castle, sacrificing themselves and fighting a delaying action there, so the rest of the army and the citizens could escape south.

[@diegoledezma4045]

I could possibly see it happening if the book actually comes out, but I think the first major battle will be at the wall. Jon has that dream of him fighting dead men while he’s wearing black armour and wielding a sword that’s burns hot. Maybe they lose that battle then have to retreat Winterfell or something.

[@unematrix]

And it's called Winterfell. That's where winter fell... it's where the army of the dead was defeated the first time.

[@romainandrieux5948]

@@reelworld1 Some thinks that Stannis will be the one making the last stand, while the rest escape to the next shockpoint

[@seargantmagor]

- Who needs military strategy when you have plot armor John Snow, military genius

[@gslinger]

Good job. The end of the show was so bad that I kind of forgot how much the battle sucked.

[@curiousguyontheinternet9023]

To be frank, everything with King’s Landing was far, far worse than this

[@MCHammer79]

The un-ironic part about this video, is that I STILL can't see a damn thing going on. 😅

[@reelworld1]

I know I brightened a couple of the clips, like the Melisandre one at the end, but that degrades the resolution a bit too. This was a nightmare to put together because for some reason HBO has more stringent copyright checks in place than normal for this episode, which is funny because it's so terrible. It was a nightmare to edit.

[@MCHammer79]

@@reelworld1 I appreciate your work in creating content we can enjoy. My comment was more of a jab at the actual battle scene. Aside from the fact that this battle from a militaristic standpoint makes zero sense as you pointed out, I think the fact that the battle of the bastards was so good (not perfect) actually makes this whole episode that much worse in contrast. Our standards coming into this was very high. We were aware that the writing for the show leading up to this was already pretty bad, I thought the long night would be a payoff to all of that. I should have known better. My feelings to this are almost the same as how I felt watching the BOT5A in the 3rd Hobbit movie. Speaking of, if you ever find the time to make content for that dumpster fire, I’d gladly enjoy that too 🍿

[@ohitsjustmegod5276]

I remember watching this episode and thinking. Has D&D or anyone at the writing team ever studied a historical battle with tactics? Ever played a Total war game? Ever read Ceasar? Or Horodotus? Or Hannibal? Ever watched a 5 minute video on how a hand to hand battle was fought? I almost felt embarrassed for them.

[@reelworld1]

It's amazing how they had all the basics wrong, and didn't even consult with someone on how such a battle would be planned.

[@mikef2811]

I was thinking the same thing as you. They could not hire a miliary consultant that knew ancient warfare? With the money they blew, I am sure they could have gotten one to prevent this horrific mess. Thank God, Ghengis Khan or Alexander The Great was not here to see this cluster F....they would die laughing at this battle scene.

[@MrDibara]

​@@mikef2811 _Subotai be rolling on the winds from this episode._

[@Jon-xw9om]

The best 'acting' in the entire episode is Ghost's CGI reaction to Mel lighting the swords.

[@jorhanson8583]

A frontal cavalry assault into the middle of an opposing force is almost a guarantee of defeat. Any military strategist knows this. You engage the center with infantry, artillery and air support, attack the flanks with cavalry.

[@danielthornebille6980]

And why does Dany NOT WEAR ARMOUR!

[@reelworld1]

Dan and Dave opted for the stylish white winter coat.

[@silasgs9257]

macys was having a winter sale

[@speddyg]

What are you going on about? she has the best armour in all the kingdoms: PLOT ARMOUR!

[@danielthornebille6980]

@@speddyg thats rigth I totally forgot about the plot armour🤣

[@lfemmecoure]

I think they forgot that part

[@mariametaterran3008]

I remember watching this as a broke-ass student with a blanket over my head and shitty laptop because it was the only way I could see shit through the 90% black background. Only to later read the director being like: it's not MY fault. You're just broke.

[@yaboyed5779]

August 2024 and it still hurts. 😢

[@sydnitheromantictaylor112]

Great video. The battle was dumb as hell and I'm pissed that they ended in winterfell. There's no way Dan and Dave thought this was good writing

[@ryanlisterman1864]

The battle made it seem the Dothraki and Unsullied were wiped out Next episode Danny has a full army again

[@reelworld1]

It was like a video game where your forces regenerate.

[@ADAstandsalone]

I think the thing that really kills me about this episode and the downfall of the show is that there are so many good concepts buried in it. The dueling dragons in the sky, the contrast between the darkness and the fire, the very real danger tons of main characters were in, the lead up to the face-off of Jon and the Night King, Bran vs. Night King, Theon redemption, and ultimately Arya using her assassin training and cunning to do what Jon through simple strength could not. For example, they could've killed a bunch of main characters in the scuffle in rapid succession, just like the red wedding. Tyrion could've had some sort of plan to resurrect their own army of the dead from the crypts using forbidden magic from the capitol like the wildfyre. Jon could've lost against the Night King after ACTUALLY fighting him, maybe even lost an arm or something too, and Arya could've been more sneaky about killing the Night King with a flaming sword in a last ditch effort as one final twist, but only after he kills Bran. This episode could've been the greatest, but it ends up being emblematic of every problem the show became. Just goes to show that good concepts or flashy plot points mean nothing without execution. I never knew about any of the battle formation stuff, which is only more laughable as GOT is supposed to be the "realist" fantasy. The dothraki were so obviously sacrificed because D&D didn't want to deal with them and so just wrote them out. So lazy.

[@reelworld1]

The pattern of D&D not knowing what to do with people or characters, started in Season 5 when they messed up Dorne, and then let Stannis just fizzle out. If you had Arya kill the Night King while Brienne, Jaime etc are fighting the white walkers, with some dying, and Jon battling the Night King, I agree, that would've been fine. Like in the Avenger films, it needs to be a combination of people together defeating the villain.

[@ToxicDarkLord]

@@reelworld1 Also considering the new GOT book it very much seems like Stannis is going to win against the Boltons so they gave his entire plot to Jon instead. They should have never been given another job after XMEN Origins Wolverine and to the shock of noone when they dont have direct source material to rely on that their flaws are highlighted massively.

[@reelworld1]

@@ToxicDarkLord I also suspect that when Jon is resurrected in Winds, that he's going to have a harsher edge to him. We know that when people are brought back that they change in some way. I don't expect anything as severe at Lady Stoneheart, but on the show nothing really changed with him.

[@ToxicDarkLord]

@@reelworld1 yeah I am of the same opinion as well as I see Jon when he returns back from the dead to be like Ned but with an edge who is willing to get his hands dirty or is willing to make more uncomfortable decisions that he previously would not have done.

[@reelworld1]

@@ToxicDarkLord Very briefly on the show I thought they might do that when he executed the traitors at Castle Black, including the boy Olly, but then he just reverted to his previous patterns.

[@ggegeRGr]

Imagine putting your cast and crew through weeks of gruelling night shoots only to make everything impossible to see 🤣 It was all just so incredibly bad.

[@KingOfWinter]

It’s crazy how great of a job everyone who worked on GOT did except for the two people who actually wanted to make the show and who’s reputation was linked to the show and then they go and rush the end and write utter garbage. I hope they never get another job in Hollywood after that crap

[@reelworld1]

That's one of the worst aspects. Everyone else did an impeccable job.

[@TheGavalanche]

Yeah the documentary that showed the sheer efforts of the team, visual effects, costume etc. made me feel quite bad for them. They all seemed top tier.

[@naverich4603]

I remember waking up with my girlfriend at 4am so that we could download and watch this episode before going to school/work that day....I can't even describe how pissed off I was....Not only I slept 4 hours that day but I watched the fucking worst conclusion to one of the most mysterious storylines in television history ever. The fact that Martin still haven't finished the books is even worse. I bought Fire and Blood 4 years ago but promised to myself to not read any spin-offs or prequels until he finishes the damn Winds of Winter....and so the book has been collecting dust for the past 4 years.

[@reelworld1]

I think we'll eventually get Winds of Winter, but we'll never see the final book Dream of Spring. House of the Dragon is a very good series, but I can understand why you'd be so turned off by all that's happened.

[@naverich4603]

@@reelworld1 I agree...And as an aspiring storyteller myself I can't even imagine what must be going on in his head. He created arguably the best fantasy series of this century so far (Harry Potter is more popular but Asoiaf is a masterpiece in everything from plot, character study to the prose style), it made him insanely popular which very few writers become and it also made him a millionaire...yet he doesn't bother to finish it. If you consider the fact that Tolkien, one of his favorite writers, died before finishing his books, you would think he'd do anything to avoid the same scenario...but his is worse :D He's not even finishing his own LotR before he dies. Such a shame.

[@etherdragon6029]

I recently finished watching GOT, anf Arya killing the Night King was just as baffingly awful as I heard. The only thing that could explain why the white walkers doing absolutely nothing is because most of them used to be Craster's sons: years of incest must've rotted their brains lmaooo

[@reelworld1]

The worst part too is we never even got a sword fight between the Night King and Jon. The actor they got for the NK was even a top swordsman. But they never used that skill.

[@BrianRosborough]

Your channel is criminally underrated brother! Please keep up the great work, your channel is wonderful and it’s only a matter of time before KZbin starts picking it up and putting it out to the masses. Just a little affirmation of your talent and hard work mate, and the comment for the algorithm. Great breakdown, God speed brother !

[@reelworld1]

Thanks a lot! I appreciate it.

[@doovstoover9703]

What I think is often missed in the discussion of this episode is that it wouldn't be a bad thing in itself that their battle plan was garbage, and would in fact have made for some much needed tension and character conflict, IF the poor planning had been justified by the storytelling. It would actually have been perfectly in keeping with Dany's arrogance and brittle sense of self-belief in her right to rule if, having just learnt of Jon's true lineage and superior claim to the Iron Throne, she had decided to pull rank and seize command of the battle, ignoring the better advice of Jon et al, and made all those bad military decisions as a result. Then you could have had Jon stepping in and averting disaster at the last minute, saving the day with his superior military experience and understanding of the enemy. His undermining of Dany's authority would have then played perfectly into her subsequent descent into madness in the following episodes.

[@bryanpodojil3884]

I spent nearly 30 minutes trying to adjust my TV to see this abysmal episode. What a disasster.

[@Jordan-mq4wj]

Your TV must be shit then or you are blind because I could see everything 😂

[@RaidenTLG]

This battle was the Equivalent of hitting Auto Resolve in a Total War game. 😂😂😂

[@lewischerry3552]

years on and we're all still mad as fuck about season 8

[@TeenageMutantZuckerTurtle]

The visual of all those flaming swords being swallowed by a literal wall of the dead in the darkness was so cool… but executed so, so poorly 😂

[@lottoguy6457]

It was just to dark. I still have no clue what went on.

[@rygord101]

Ok how would you have lit the battle besides fire? Let's hear it? This is a medieval battle. You can't exactly have giant lights that don't exist lighting up the battle.

[@lottoguy6457]

@@rygord101 mmm it’s make believe I would have made believe the people at home could have seen what was going on.

[@rygord101]

@@lottoguy6457 exactly no answer and no better solution. I rest my case.

[@lottoguy6457]

@@rygord101 make a tv show nobody could see what was going on. Brilliant. 99 percent of the people hated it. That’s the answer. You’re trying to apply reality to make believe and film making. Is this One of the shows creators?

[@rygord101]

@@lottoguy6457 I didn't say it was brilliant. Season 8 sucked. I'm asking how would they have lit the battle scene by using anything other than fire? You can't answer because there is no way to do it in a way that would make sense. So instead you try to pick a fight.

[@MultiMenvafan]

Possibly the greatest anticlimax in TV history.

[@KingOfWinter]

The crazy part is even with all the mistakes they where still so close to getting this episode right. Everything could've happened almost exactly the same except when the NK raises the dead in front of Jon instead of Jon trying to keep running toward Winterfell still trying to fight a losing battle he should’ve hoped back on Rhaegal and him and Dany could fly over winterfell seeing a couple of their friends die but saving as many as they could (yeah I know in the books other people can’t ride other people’s dragons but at this point I would’ve put any plot holes aside to save what I already knew was coming). You could have Sansa and Tyrion leading people through the crypts and it comes out through a barrow a couple of miles away from the castle or something and maybe they meet a few Dothraki who were able to survive the dead and run away. The episode ends with Jon and his group and Dany and her group watching winterfell be destroyed as they fly away. The episode would’ve been awesome and everyone would be wondering what would happen next. I mean D&D have no excuse for that garbage they released to the world even if they wanted to be lazy there are a million fan theories online they could’ve picked from or combined. Every on of which would be better than what we got.

[@reelworld1]

Yeah, I've always felt the battle at Winterfell should have been a loss, or they even fought it with a small contingent allowing the bulk of the army and the citizens to escape south. The final fight would've been best at King's Landing, where you force everyone to work together to stop the NK, or they need to take KL first in order to have the protection there against the army of the dead.

[@KingOfWinter]

@reelworld1 I think it makes the most sense to do the last battle at harrenhall but I can understand doing it at KL for the show because HH isn’t as important in the show but a castle that is said to be able to hold every army in westeros is just too good foreshadowing to pass up when you’re fighting a enemy that would take every army in westeros working together to defeat. I agree with you 100% about everyone working together. I think they passed up a really good chance to tell how hubris and power hungry people can and will destroy the world just to hold onto that power by having Cersei and Danny, Jon fight a small battle at the gates of KL because Cersei still won’t help them or even let them in and Danny and Jon have no choice if they want to live because the Night King is almost there. And in the middle of the battle the sun goes dark and the light snow turns into a storm as the army of the dead and the white walkers come into view. Every human stops fighting as the southern army realizes the northerners weren’t lying and the people that have just died from both sides start coming back to life literally forcing them to work together. Then you can just make it chaos as you see each of our hero’s trying to get everyone to the red keep since the town area is already taken by the dead because of that stupid battle they just had. We can even follow the NK as he walks through KL with that badass score they wrote. Cersei has Brianna executed before the battle and while everyone is distracted by the dead and Cersei sees everything crashing in around her and is paying for all her bad decisions Jamie kills her. Finally Jon seeing everyone he loves dying flys to the NK gets off his dragon and challenges the NK to single combat. At first you think the NK will just send more dead at him or the other white walkers but the NK stops them and they all back up. You can pan the camera up and see the chaos in the city has stopped and a kind of circle has formed around Jon and the NK with the walker and dead on one side and what’s rest of the living on the other (you can maybe even make it look like that symbol the WW kept leaving everywhere that never had a point as far as we know in the show). Jon and NK fight and Jon holds him off for a few seconds but the NK is just too good and is playing with him. You see Arya in the crowd screaming at Jon tears starting to form as the NK breaks longclaw and grabs Jon by the throat and impales him with that ice spear/sword as Jon falls dying that’s when Arya comes flying at the NK and he catches her in mid air and she does the cool dagger trick and stabs him and the WW all shatter. Or I mean anything other than what they did. It took me 5 seconds to write that off the top of my head and I feel like it’s still better than what we got and it took D&D a whole year to write the last season lol

[@reelworld1]

@@KingOfWinter In the books, if we ever get them, I think the final battle will be in that region from the Twins down through Harenhall. The Isle of Faces too, which is right near it, I think will have a role in defeating the army of the dead.

[@luthfi1008]

Coming from LOTR I read the comments before even start the video. Understand what happen, then I close it. Wanna keep my brain fresh with epic LOTR scene (Helms Deep batfle)

[@lillithsummers8817]

I remember looking forward to this episode so much! The previous episode (s 8 ep2 ) was actually pretty good and I was primed to see heroic sacrifices, plot threads come together and dramatic battles. I started out hyped, then became confused then disbelief. I actually turned it off about 3/4 of the way through because it was so ridiculous. I didn’t finish the series till weeks later because I knew at that point, it was gone and couldn’t be redeemed. I wish i had never finished that wretched season!

[@reelworld1]

Episode 2 was written by Bryan Cogman who is well versed in the lore. It was a real bait and switch for the audience, because it left you feeling we were about to see something really monumental.

[@wolfm33]

You rewatched this episode!! You sir are a lot braver than me. Still cannot comprehend the fact that this is supposedly Winter and the snow on the ground is less than the snow found in a low mountain in a mediterranean country during winter.

[@tusharislam8002]

I just hate how the night king was 1-hit-KO'd --- just so anticlimactic.

[@user-ic8vi6kk8r]

The 1-hit-KO was the only thing i think we all saw coming. Whether it be Valyrian steel or dragonglass.

[@stevem2323]

@@user-ic8vi6kk8r I didn't, it made sense for him to be bullet proof against that because how he was created.

[@canemcave]

"can't beat them in a straight fight", then go in the dark into a direct cavalry assault, against an enemy you couldn't even see. Genius HEHEHE

[@poorpinoyvlogs]

Man watching this just makes me remember how furious this episode and the directors have made me towards GoT. HotD is going well so far, but there is already one non-sensical scene (Rhaenys emerging from the dragonpit and just staring the Greens down). Hopefully it doesnt spiral down like the last few seasons of GoT.

[@reelworld1]

Yeah I was critical of the Rhaenys scene which was made for spectacle. Also it makes her a killer of countless civilians. They should've just had her escape from another area of the dragonpit that wasn't occupied. Right now I think we'll be okay with HotD, but that scene hit my radar too.

[@wantyoursleep6701]

Just the fact they spent so long rigorously preparing for the castle for this defense only to send more than half their man power *outside* of said castle hurts my head more than anything

[@reelworld1]

It's as if they took every good tactic and did the opposite.

[@declanjones8888]

Thank you, I've been looking for a video about the actual Battle of Winterfell and how dumb it is

[@yanksfan6833]

Arya was the worst character of the last 2 seasons. Cringe

[@reelworld1]

She was like a super hero after she was stabbed by the waif. She should've died then with multiple stab wounds to the stomach, but she managed to not only make it through a fall into the water, but she was able to run and then defeat her in a fight. It's among the very worst things that they did.

[@The_Curious_Cat]

The quantity of missed opportunities on this episode alone is astonishing. All just to rush so they could go do Star Wars and then shot themselves on the foot when Disney realized who they truly hired after seeing how disastrous Season 8 was.

[@desmondd1984]

Love the little bit at 12:10 about Jorah's death and the consistency of his armor. 😆

[@woodyhorton8537]

I've literally watched reactions to this episode from ppl who have no clue about battle tactics and even they are like why are they charging at the dead army, why are the catapults in front of the army, why did they stop shooting catapults, Why is the wolf going does he have valyrian teeth etc lol its so bad even normies are confused

[@reelworld1]

They basically did the parody version of their own battle.

[@woodyhorton8537]

@@reelworld1 They really did and it wasn't very funny either so big fail all around lol

[@yavvivvay]

This is why you make plot of a good battle and find cool parts to show on camera, not the other way around.

[@Bacon56ful]

I've never seen a show lose so much momemtum mid season, if they'd allowed the night king to win this battle the rest of the season wouldve had a lot more going for it

[@joaodagostini9588]

The catapults outside the walls, in front of the line. When I saw that I was like what the fuuuuuck?

[@reelworld1]

That was one of the very first images of the battlefield too, along with everyone literally standing in the dark waiting to die.

[@quincyquincy4764]

And another thing, none of the Dotraki said anything against using magic. They're magically ok with it now?

[@grub833]

I love that they charged the dothraki into the darkness against an insanely numerous infantry horde that doesnt feel pain or fear, thats a recipe to lose your cavalry and they did, winterfell in the show us surrounded by plains they should have been using bows and instead baited the horde into following them and kited them away from winterfell while shooting fire/dragonglass arrows into the horde The dragons strafing overhead providing visibility to the horse archers but nope, would have cut down so many wights by doing that and probably would have lessened the main assault on winterfell 10/10 battle tactics

[@reelworld1]

The visibility issue is a persistent problem. The dragons should've been lighting up the field. Have spots set up in advance that will serve as bonfires so they can see where the enemy is coming from, and in what numbers. Instead they're just standing there clueless waiting for the army to appear in front of them.

[@Blake-y2k]

I think another element of the disappointment is how anticipated the conflict was versus how short it ended up being and how little it resolved. The whole show is building up to this conflict, it's over in part of an episode, and then everyone just goes back to what they were already doing.

[@reelworld1]

That's a good point. The white walkers were introduced in the very first episode when the Night's Watch rangers went beyond the Wall and encountered the dead. It was the primary threat in the series, and it was concluded as if it was a side story.

[@Blake-y2k]

@@reelworld1Right? The white walkers and the threat they pose to humanity looms over every season, giving the impression that resolution of that threat requires fractured groups of self-seekers to unite behind a common and higher goal of preserving humanity as such, thereby redeeming their individual efforts and resolving the endless cycle of backstabbing for power. But it turns out to be just another spectacle as the underlying right-by-blood plot meanders to its conclusion 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@donkeysunited]

The white walkers were always a side story. They were barely mentioned in season 1. The real meat of the show was all the political alliances and backstabbings - the game of thrones. The white walkers were only put in to attract those of us that love fantasy. They had no other purpose. Just another side plot that needed to be wrapped up before the real story in the finale. Which I barely remember because it was such a mess in the end.

[@DmytroBogdan]

I just kinda forgot this series existed until KZbin decided to remind me

[@brendancaulfield970]

How about the next episode, which seems to be at most a couple of days later, where they're burning the dead on the pristine fields outside Winterfell, which show no evidence of the trenches or carnage. It's like the battle happened in its own self contained universe. So bloody stupid.

[@Moon_Mann11]

12:00 This part pissed me off so much, the plot armor was truly visible.

[@Artosk]

The worst part for me is that the Dothraki looked like they were all holding steel Arakhs. Unless Melisande turned up out of the blue they were planning on charging them headfirst I to the mass with only Jorah being able to kill anyone

[@OSU2010]

All that Dragon Glass prep just to not use it😂, no spears swords or arrows

[@cody6372]

They sent the Dothraki out front without anything to actually kill the wights. All they have looks like are just normal arakhs. So if melisandre didn’t come and set them on fire what were they going to do? It doesn’t matter anyway they just add to the army of the dead and made there fight harder by however many Dothraki were just killed.

[@reelworld1]

Exactly. If Melisandre hadn't emerged from the abyss, then they would've charged into complete darkness.

[@antoinelachapelle3405]

Not only do the white walkers outnumber the Dothraki cavalry, but they also do not feel Fear or suffer from a Morale shock and the entire point of a cavalry full speed charge is shock and awe to break the formation.

[@kjellduteweert9262]

Oh, hated watching it, remember my reaction even now, I know my stuff about military strategy. I hated the Dothraki charge, it all made no sense. Also, Winterfell is way too small. The total episode was crap, maybe the only shot that was cool was Drogon and Rhaegal flying in the night sky. Great video.

[@reelworld1]

I always felt too that the final fight against the Night King should've been at King's Landing. Winterfell needed to fall to raise the stakes, and forced everyone to work together against the real threat, which is the intent of Martin's books. Instead they rushed to make it a fight for the throne.

[@Tsathogguah]

They should've played Total War a bit before they decided on these tactics.

[@christainmarks106]

The long night episode… should have been at least two or three episodes long. Ending with the sword fight between the night king and John.

[@TheRealRedAce]

That would be RIP John!

[@thomasjones4570]

This whole "Jon should have fought the night king" nonsense is tiresome. Jon was never going to fight the night king and there is nothing great about him. He was stupid and he was not even a great fighter and actually CHOSE to keep fucking his own aunt while following her right up to the very end despite her insane cruelty.

[@TheRealRedAce]

@@thomasjones4570 True, but to be fair Jon was very inexperienced and incest seems normal in this world.

[@thomasjones4570]

@@TheRealRedAce To be fair, the night king is not inexperienced which is the point about that...and no, incest was greatly frowned upon and its even mentioned a bunch of times in the show. This is why the Lannister's were trying to hide it, why Tywin refused to believe his children were doing it...and why there was the saying that "Every time a Targaryen was born, the gods flipped a coin"...on if they were going to be insane or not due to the incest.

[@TheRealRedAce]

@@thomasjones4570 I think incest is less than incest with the king's wife!

[@wesh_.6787]

From how you explained it, it means that they didn't even hire a military expert to have a decent battle tactic in an episode about a battle

[@reelworld1]

It's doesn't seem like they did, or they bypassed any suggestions in favor of spectacle, like the Dothraki's flaming swords being extinguished.

[@jimmaynard]

im still too mad at this episode I cant get through your video

[@Will13drumheaded]

Gondor and Mordor's Black Gate peepz are laughing at this episode...

[@reelworld1]

I remember the hype going into Season 8. People involved in the filming said it would rival Helm's Deep.

[@HerrMau]

This episode is the true embodiment of stupid people saying "wooooow this looks SO cool, great CGI". It's like 20 years ago when CGI was brand new and breath taking, only then - really ONLY then and for a very short time, maybe a couple films - it would be acceptible to sacrifice all logic and character building just for visual effects. How Dumb&Dumber still can be considered anything but worse writers than a 5 year old is baffling me. Clearly big studios (Netflix, HBO, Disney, ...) desperately need new CEOs who know and value what makes a good STORY.

[@reelworld1]

CGI can still work in something like a Godzilla film where you're going in for the spectacle and the monster battles, and not the story, but when you take a series like GOT and infuse that sort of low effort and moments strictly for shock value, it becomes a complete disaster.

[@DecafSaxGuy]

Never mind the cav charge, the horrible artillery placement, the lack of siege tools like pitch, oil, boulders, etc. The fact that they had enough people to freely practice and train during the day before means they had people to dig more and deeper earthworks that would’ve halted the massive wave of full sprint undead.

[@reelworld1]

They also should've set up bonfires on the field that the dragons could light so they could actually see the army from a distance and not just wait to have it slam into them. If they were going to take this path, then the attack on Winterfell should've been a surprise and they were scrambling to react, rather than have all that preparation time which just compounds the problems in the episode.

[@based-ys9um]

Arya was one of my favourite characters. Then you becomes a smirking cringe mary sue girl boss.

[@reelworld1]

We were in trouble after her miraculous recovery at the end of Season 6 to the multiple stab wounds to her stomach.

[@williamhenry8914]

The defenders' strategy was so absurd even ordinary people with no interest in history or military theory thought it jumped the shark. With all the advisors they must have had on hand, I'm frankly amazed this nonsense battle even got made. I guess someone who cared only about spectacle must have shouted them down.

[@ukmediawarrior]

Luckily the Dothraki all had an extra life token because they all seem to be alive and well for the attack on Kings Landing :D

[@reelworld1]

Yeah, there's nothing like a new playthrough on a video game after you die.

[@SwfanredLotr]

Remembering this battle is so enfuriating.

[@simunator]

we live in an era of weak men inciting a weak world. weak writers are no exception

[@trumpsextratesticle8590]

Amen, Brother Simunator -Preach It!

[@xenomorph6599]

Drunk and Drugged outdid their plummeting track record with this one

[@NRitchey]

Part of me is still devastated that the show ended so terribly, but I’m also thankful, because we got so much good content bashing the incredibly awful writing

[@jokerswild469]

Can you do a video on how the battle would have gone if Tywin were still alive for it

[@reelworld1]

I think Tywin, or any good military commander, wouldn't even want to engage the enemy at Winterfell because it's not favorable ground for it. The best spot is a place like the Twins, where you can have a more narrow battlefield where the numbers of the enemy won't overwhelm your as much. If forced to fight at Winterfell you have to stay in the castle and the dragons needs to be used nonstop to cut the forces of the enemy down as best you can before they reach the walls.

[@TheRealRedAce]

Tywin's part in it would have been similar to Sersei's!

[@hubertwaliszewski5740]

The Audacity Dumb and Dumber had to say this, abomination, was going to be on the level of Helm's Deep