Babylon 5 (1993) Retrospective/Review - Part 2

[@RowanJColeman]

HELP THE CHANNEL GROW: www.patreon.com/rowanjcoleman

[@Phatman2167]

@Rowan J Coleman Where did you get the information about later storyline for Crusade? I'd love to read that. Another great video, as usual.

[@craiglortie8483]

you should do one for sense 8!

[@justinamerican8200]

34:15 MARTIN Sheen.

[@TheRenegadeMonk]

Rowan, PLEASE do a Stargate SG1 (and spin-offs) retrospective before you quit the sci-fi. Also Battlestar Galactica, both old and new!

[@dosmastrify]

43:00 seriously why do they show stuff out of order? It's got to be a good idea somehow, so how?

[@jeffmontray88]

I enjoyed your retrospective very much. As one of the Animators/Supervising animators, I thank you for the comments on the effects. We worked under tight deadlines and small budgets. I also want to point out a major change that happened between season 3 and 4. After the first 3 seasons Netter Digital wanted to bring the effects in-house. Foundation Imaging had been the effects house up to that point. I was the first animator hired by Netter to start an in-house animation wing. I am proud of the nearly seamless transition we were able to pull off, in fact in many respects better effects. Part of that is due to better computers and a maturation of the LIghtWave software we used. I personally want to thank you for your review of "Thirdspace". I was fortunate to be the Supervising animator for that movie and am very proud of the work today. There is a whole history behind the effects that people might be interested in knowing. It was the very early days of putting animation power into the hands of everyday very talented people. We had an amazingly talented and diverse crew, but that wasn't an issue then, we just wanted good animators. I also worked on the development and episodes of Crusade and the animated series Voltron the Third Dimension I was supervising animator which is available on Amazon, but my favorite will always be B5. I want to thank you for using many of the shots I did, the ships I built and the planets I created (Including Mars).

[@Kay-kg6ny]

So cool to hear from an animator! I always hope the production staff on these shows will see retrospectives and homages like this, and know how much their work is appreciated!

[@jokervynehahaha5568]

Thank you for all the little, non flashy things. I didn't see them, but I know I would have seen if they weren't there.

[@WardancerHB]

Thank you for your art, it's very appreciated! That was legendary work.

[@richardlionheart3935]

I have always wondered why the effects were brought in house. At the time it felt a bit like a kick in the teeth to FI as they were instrumental in bringing that level of cgi to a tv show. Do you know the reasons why they felt it needed to be brought in house?

[@TammuzKay]

Seeing the 3D scenes in Babylon 5 was one of the main inspirations for me to get into the fields of VFX and animation.

[@evertonporter7887]

Those last three episodes of Babylon 5's fifth season! Oh my...it was like saying goodbye to the cast, many of whom we would never see on the screen again.

[@RapidCityJM]

I so LOVE G'kar's goodbye speech that I've told friends I want it played at my funeral.

[@horrorstew3577]

Told my wife I want the ThunderCats theme 😂

[@lfrands]

@@horrorstew3577that moment when you realize you’re not taking your future seriously and need to start planning 🤔… thank you, I’ve got to go update my will right now

[@PetersonZF]

I consider In The Beginning to be one of my favourite movies. Londo's monologue about the human race is just phenomenal: "The humans, I think, knew they were doomed. But where another race would surrender to despair, the humans fought back with even greater strength. They made the Minbari fight for every inch of space. In my life, I have never seen anything like it. They would weep, they would pray, they would say goodbye to their loved ones, then throw themselves without fear or hesitation into the very face of death itself, never surrendering. No one who saw them fighting against the inevitable, could help but be moved to tears by their courage, their stubborn nobility. When they ran out of ships they used guns. When they ran out of guns they used knives and sticks, and bare hands. They were magnificent. I only hope that when it is my time, I may die with half as much dignity as I saw in their eyes in the end. They did this for two years. They never ran out of courage. But in the end, they ran out of time."

[@santesia6222]

That monologue always makes me cry, it is so powerful.

[@astalavistatheexpat6095]

"I only hope that when it is my time, I may die with half as much dignity as I saw in their eyes in the end." Also note, of course, that this is *between* the two scenes of flash-forward Sheridan has during War Without End. And a certain ability of the Centauri referenced all the way back in Midnight on the Firing Line.

[@PetersonZF]

@@santesia6222 Same! Just reading it, let alone listening to Peter Jurasik's delivery.

[@TheGahta]

Special attention in my opinion on the delivery of the "for two years" part Always gets my hair standing

[@robwalsh9843]

Centauri also had imperial designs on Earth. Because Centauri resemble Humans, they were going to exploit that mystery and claim that Earth was a lost colony of Centauri Prime and eventually subjugate the planet. After what they went through subjugating the Narns, I'm guessing Londo was glad they didn't try that with Humans.

[@logansrun1960]

The scene of G'Kar forgiving Londo still hits me every time I see it. Bar none, one of (if not) the best scene in the show.

[@logansrun1960]

And the elevator scene in Sleeping in Light breaks my heart when you realize the only person in that elevator still with us is Claudia Christian.

[@Xondar11223344]

@@logansrun1960 So many of the B5 actors died before their time. Richard Biggs was barely older than I am now, and that hits me.

[@owenshebbeare2999]

Also the scene, much earlier, season 3, I think, where Delenn tell G'Kar of her foreknowledge of the Shadows. Very strong acting.

[@nikolaimiroshnichenko2689]

the scene with Regent in the same episode was also very strong

[@zeroibis]

What 5 seasons of character development lead to is perhaps not only the best scene in the show but also the best in any show ever made. I can not think of another that comes even close to how impactful G'Kar forgiving Londo is.

[@TheInternetHelpdeskPlays]

**round of applause** this was an amazing series. Onward to the future, a million years or so.

[@dougritchie5305]

3 million years judging by the outro music😁

[@rjjm88]

Sleeping in Light is one of the best episodes of TV ever made. I've been watching Babylon 5 almost yearly since it came out and it still makes me ugly cry.

[@simonshields7442]

Congratulations on this two parter. Everyone who ever watched this knows just how special it was but, to hear those thoughts made vocal on such an entertaining way is, quite frankly, wonderful. Thank you for this.

[@afaultytoaster]

Sheridan going "beyond the rim" with the ancient elders is very Tolkienesque

[@davidconner-shover51]

Agreed, including the foreshadowing on his ressurection

[@stuartwald2395]

There is a heavy Tolkein flavor throughout the series, especially with regard to the Shadows; the very name is from "The Shadow of the Past" (chapter 2 of Fellowship), they periodically emerge from their dark home to ravage and destroy (Zha'hadum as Mordor), and alliances and a fellowship of heroes is formed to oppose them. Later on, Galen is very clearly drawn from Gandalf's darker and more mysterious elements ("When will you come back? In the fullness of time. Expect me when you see me.").

[@irena4545]

@@stuartwald2395 /cough/ Rangers /cough/ If Marcus stepped out and claimed he was a Dúnadan, I would have believed him :-)

[@bragod]

@@irena4545 he was more Dunadan than many Dunadan will ever be. One of the greatest and beloved characters in history.

[@rmsgrey]

I suspect it wasn't the original plan - it makes a lot of sense for the original plan to have been the former commander of Babylon 5 and retired President of the Interstellar Alliance to have ended the series by returning to Sector 13 and traveling back in time to steal Babylon 4 before traveling about a thousand years into the past to turn the tide of the previous Shadow War. The Arthurian once-and-future King thing of being taken out of the mundane world to a place of healing to maybe return at a time of great need would then be a change to the plan due to the handover from Sinclair to Sheridan.

[@garycallan7384]

Lando saying he is sorry still brings tears to my eyes. The acting of these two is outstanding

[@dallassukerkin6878]

"Sleeping in Light" breaks my heart utterly every time I see it. For the first time I saw it I was yet to marry. The second time I saw it I was married and my wife and I shared a complete love for each other just as did Sheridan and Delenn; to the point that she said to me when we watched it that that was how deeply she loved me too and that she didn't think she could let me go like that. The third time, I had lost her to cancer and that shot of Delenn sitting on the bench watching the sunrise has been every day for me since then.

[@casperi2]

I feel and do the same. I'm only 50 , lost 2 women now but I still have time for one last chance to fall in love again God willing. Yes I have a bench where she and I use to go each morning or even to see the sun either set or rise. So I know exactly where you are coming from. I also hear Judcars goodbye at the same time and melt into tears. Atleast now I know I'm not the only man that has a bench. Take care brother.

[@diggingattycho7908]

I once saw someone post, "Your not quite the same after watching B5." I agree with the statement, the series was that powerful. Honestly I haven't enjoyed any sci-fi series since B5 ended. It set a very high bar, even STNG and the series that followed were not up to the B5 standard. If they ever try to redo it, most likely it will not measure up(even if you can resurrect the dead). There is an old saying in showbiz, lighting never strikes twice. JMS knows this as well, B5 was a complete stroke of luck. Not unlike the original Star Trek series. Another observation, attending B5 20th anniversary at PCC and going to the Star Trek Creation Con(in the same year). What I can say for both casts, DS9 cast was professional. The B5 cast was like attending a party of very close friends, they all knew how to hold the audiences attention. With Doyle, JMS of course the rest of the surviving cast really playing off each other. It is out there if you want to see it.

[@KayleighBourquin]

I would argue that For All Mankind has a similar level of power as B5. It has a similar kind of literary epic quality, that feels like you're watching a novel play out on screen. And the emotional moments hit like a freight train to the face.

[@KayOSweaver]

The B5 convention panels are a joy to watch. They're poking fun at each other, telling crazy stories, you really get the sense that it was like a family on set.

[@AntiLifeEquation1]

Watching Babylon 5 from the beginning to the 5th season, if you pay close attention to Lenier, you can catch a few sideways glances at Sheridan. It was always clear to me that he quietly loved Delenn, but knew she only had eyes for Sheridan.

[@irena4545]

Aye, I have watched - or rather, devoured - the whole series several times and there is definitely a sense of growing tension on Lenier's part towards Sheridan. At first, he claims that he understands that Delenn is destined for another, but as her relationship with Sheridan becomes intimate, there is a notable shift in his attitude towards animosity. It was quite subtle, but when Lenier did what he did, I wasn't surprised.

[@juliadagnall5816]

For me when it hits is the episode in season 4 when Delenn and Lennier are on the way to Minbar and the other members of the religious caste sabotage the ship because they think Delenn is planning to sell them out. Not only does Lennier almost die stopping them but he doesn’t tell her what they were up to because he doesn’t want her to be hurt by realizing how weak and fallible her own people are. At some point he stopped seeing her as his boss and mentor and started seeing her as someone he had to protect from a world that wasn’t good enough for her. Even though before that he had been devoted to her, that was when you could see how he was slowly edging his way towards a point of no return

[@JimParshall]

"but I, can forgive, you" this was one of the impactful scenes I have ever experienced in any media. It truly encompasses my belief that the most important phrase in any language is "I forgive you".

[@VallornDeathblade]

Day of the Dead ranks up there with my favorite episodes overall. The addition of Penn and Teller as Rebo and Zooty after all the little references to them throughout the series, and a screenplay by Gaiman really make the episode a standout. Watching characters come to terms with those they left behind in the aftermath of the Shadow War and Earth Alliance Civil War really works extremely well and the only way I could see it being improved would be the addition of Ivonova having to finally come to terms with Marcus' death.

[@the_sigil4340]

Londo / Gkar stuff has always been the heart of the show for me; gotta rewatch that show someday

[@lovejoy1311]

Red Dwarf should be interesting. I think Americans (like myself), and especially ones younger than me, are actually just going to be introduced to it by you. I personally have seen every season available to me, and have watched since the 1990s. But I don’t think that is common. Either, beautiful work on Babylon 5.

[@dantreadwell7421]

I remember staying up late and watching Red Dwarf near right away when it was released in the US. Still remember one of the retrospective shows they did had a shot from one of the conventions, Craig's reaction to the first question asked, by a young teen, I think, was hilarious. She asks "What is Smeg?" The entire cast, and audience, dies and Craig falls off his chair and tries to crawl off to hide. And now I have the Rimmer Song going through my head. Yay?

[@rmsgrey]

Notes and comments from when I was catching up with the premiere: On Claudia Christian's departure: one story I encountered, sometime later, was of JMS at a con or in an interview or chatting with a fan or something, and rehashing his side of the story - that he was keen to get her back, and gave her verbal reassurances that they'd be able to work around her commitments, like they had with other actors in previous seasons, but she kept insisting she needed it in writing, and he didn't understand why she didn't just trust him - and then the penny dropped, years too late that it wasn't her that needed it in writing; it was the people she was working for, who didn't have that personal relationship with him... I disagree with Lochley's line about Loyalty, Duty and Honor - maybe she was able to go through the war without them coming into conflict, but, for the command staff of Babylon 5, and for the ships ordered to fire on civilians, the only way to follow orders would have been to abandon their honour and arguably their duty. And there's also the question about who or what they should be loyal to: the man who was part of a successful conspiracy to murder the duly elected President of the Earth Alliance? Or to the people around them and the ideals of the Earth Alliance? For the first half of S5, I've always maintained that the telepath arc would have worked a lot better and been a lot stronger if, rather than being the primary story arc for roughly a third of a season, it had been allowed to begin developing in the background of the end of the Civil War - which would have occupied at least the first 4 episodes of the season (the 3 episodes of wrap up we actually got, plus additional scenes and material establishing threads for the rest of the season) - plus having had more establishment slipped into S4 itself rather than having the Civil War(s) take over the second half of the season entirely.

[@Xondar11223344]

Yep, Lochley's line makes it really seem like the military has the duty to stand by and watch even in the event of a fascist coup, and that didn't sit well with me *at all*. She seemed willing to put "duty" and "loyalty" to a fascist government above all honour. She was the Wehrmacht officer who meekly accepted Hitler declaring himself fuhrer, not some great patriot standing up for what was right. It also made me question Sheridan's wisdom for "putting someone on the other side" in charge of the station. These people literally tortured him and would have used Shadow technology to commit genocide against the other races and their own people. I felt that season 5 turned Sheridan from a principled hero who fought for what was right to a shady politician worried more about appeasement than his principles.

[@jakeand9020]

Isn't that the point? It's about perspective, not being there, not being the one that made the call, on either side. Either side will criticize the other for their choices, never knowing what choice they may have been forced to make in that position.

[@Xondar11223344]

@@jakeand9020 I don't have any sympathy for those who take the side of fascists or turn a blind eye to fascism.

[@MROJPC]

Appreciate the opinions and also that the show decided to be forthright about putting someone on the “opposite side” in a leading role. I am on the verge of stepping into the twilight of my own military career as I write this and I can tell you there is no part about Lochley or this story thread that is not salient to our times. I am flat out hesitant to punch the out button because I wonder how the next generation will uphold its obligations to defend principles of democratic government and freedom. What I can tell you is nobody is the villain of their own story, almost all people don’t wake up wanting to do bad as they see it. For my money, she did back the wrong side, absolutely. I also get that she has to justify her choice so that she can live with herself and continue to do her job. That also is a very realistic part of being a career soldier.

[@whelk]

@@Xondar11223344 I had the same reaction, and that scene sent me looking up my military oath. I don't know that the EA has the same oath, '"to support and defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic", but surely it would be something similar. It should pledge loyalty to the EA over any one officer of the EA.

[@missyprime8198]

Sleeping In Light gets me every time, I start crying as the letters are delivered and barely stop all the way through. Sure enough when Rowan let the music play as the station was decommissioned I started crying, a lot (that music gets me every time, even if not watching the episode). It's a testament to the show that I've binge watched the entire show well over 100 times & those last 3 episodes still wreck me, you'd think I'd become numb to the emotional gut punch but JMS goes straight for my heart strings.

[@snowysnowyriver]

I agree. It cuts me up every time. I know what's coming but still can't stop the tears.

[@Warraci]

It is utterly epic

[@fedord01]

Agreed completely. One of my most rewatched shows of all time. Think I go through 2-3 viewings per year

[@CallistaZM]

same, instant tears every time no matter how many times i watch it

[@robwalsh9843]

I share Bill Mumy's disappointment with Linnear's treatment in the last season. Making him all dark, brooding and dangerously jealous just didn't fit the character at all.

[@garanceadrosehn9691]

For me, the fact that he was somewhat dark and brooding, and having him absolutely in love with Delenn was all fine. But having him forsake Sheridan and abandon him to die after all the events all three of them have been through was totally unbelievable. To me it'd be a fine story line if he makes some other kind of traitorous decision, such as maybe letting some group of Rangers to die for some purely selfish benefit. But at that point in the relationships of Lennier, Delenn and Sheridan, this *specific* traitorous decision is simply not going to happen. This scene was so out-of-place that it takes me out of the B5 universe and into the real world. Instead of thinking _"OMG - I never saw _*_that_*_ coming!",_ I thought _"What the hell is wrong with JMS that he'd even think this would happen?"._ I immediately started thinking about the *writer* and not the characters in the B5 universe. Offhand I can't think of any other moment in any B5 episode or movie where that happened.

[@garanceadrosehn9691]

... Not that I *wanted* Lennier to do any kind of traitorous actions, of course!! But if there's going to be *some* short-term failure of Lennier where he performs some traitorous action (which he then goes on to regret for the rest of his life), this is not an action he would do. Not ever. Not in such a lame fashion.

[@santesia6222]

No matter how many times I re-watch this series; those heartfelt moments, those moments that make you cry, gets me every single time just like the first time I watched it over 20 years ago. The music, dialogue and visuals are so impactful. Six minutes into this retrospective and there are already tears. Thanks for doing this video. There isn't enough appreciation online for this amazing show.

[@SpacialKatana]

I do my best, it was awesome and got me into 3D.

[@Nikioko]

6:38: Babylon 5 is basically a story about six civilizations. Vorlons and Shadows were ancient rivalling civilizations, which were beyond their pinnacle and declined. Earth and Minbari were enemies that eventually overcame their animosities and became the leaders of the new alliance, after Vorlons and Shadows vanished. And Centauri and Narn, who kept on fighting each other, thus staying insignificant.

[@onetrueevan6992]

25:59 Indeed the relationship between G'Kar and Londo Mollari is among the deepest, most intriguing and emotional I have ever seen depicted on screen. All in all this video (along with part 1) is an excellent tribute to Babylon 5.

[@HoldandModify]

Great retrospective! It’s also so sad how many of the original B5 cast are no longer with us. :(

[@johnvvoorthuijzen2653]

I was just looking into that, omg so many of them died in their early 60's :(

[@danielclark4324]

Truly heartbreaking

[@michaelconnor1542]

I remember when season five was airing and half the time, the premier night would be preempted by basketball. I argue, people were not staying due to TNT basically having no respect for the fans or the show. If they were going to override regular programming of an "original" show. Move the show to a night not subject to a sports series run over. If they had done this and scheduled some classic science fiction after. People would have felt some loyalty and checked out the rest of the programming.

[@IanRussell1969]

@Random Platypus with Internet also was the same with B5 too. Any show that followed the Footy Show was in trouble. Occasionally it finished 10 mins early, and often ran 30 mins or more over time. I used to start the video recording 15 mins before B5’s scheduled air time and leave the 3hour tape recording for the whole tape. It wasn’t until torrents were around that I saw everything. But I did buy the videos when they arrived and then the DVD sets.

[@alanguages]

I could visually imagine the Vorlons losing to the 3rd Space Aliens to the point of near annihilation. The Vorlons send out an S.O.S. and when all hope seemed lost, with the 3rd Space Aliens powering up their canons, the Shadows and other First Ones appear and aid the Vorlons to beat back the 3rd Space Aliens. That would have been a sight to see.

[@ieishrifi4817]

The homunculus scene is the most iconic moment of Crusade. The show did have a tendency to go for some really strange premises and moments (the dragon bit, Apocalypse box etc.) and I love it for that. It knows things...

[@Wolf-ln1ml]

It lies. Not always, but enough...

[@Jandalf.]

I love In the Beginning ! The music is fan-tas-tic. Very emotional every time I watch it. Great story, really adds to the universe of B5. Thirdspace is also great. I love the notion that you see very old and powerfull races that dwarf in comparison with Ancient, unfathomable beings in the Universe.

[@tarn1135]

The speech in the movie by londo tell how “when the humans ran out of….” Was one of the most emotional and sad speeches of I’ve ever heard on a show or movie.

[@Vaille32]

I love sci fi. I love the shows. All the Star Treks. The various Star Gate series. Farscape. Battlestar Galactica. And so on. Still, Babylon 5 will always be the pinnacle for me. Why? That show had a soul. It respected its characters, letting them succeed, fail, and grow. It respected its audience. It never pandered, subverted expectations or disrespected viewers’ intelligence. It had a charm - a look and feel - that was distinctly its own. When folks ask me what my favorite sci fi show is and I reply “Babylon 5,” they often look puzzled. “Go watch it,” I’ll tell them and leave it at that.

[@ToumalRakesh]

I have severe doubts about a reboot. The story has been told. It'll be hard to live up to Katsulas and Doyle.

[@Faction.Paradox]

Completely agree. I'd welcome a continuation via a brand new show, they could ease new viewers into a new cast/location/timeframe/story and slowly build the connections to the other shows naturally without alienating anyone. What could a remake be but a glossier retelling of what we already know, especially when there's so many unexplored corners of the universe with countless more fresh tales to tell. The themes of B5 are not only (sadly for us) timeless but I'd argue some of them even more relevant today than during their original airing, but that ground has already been covered and covered in a way that still works as is.

[@Xondar11223344]

I think B5 deserves a reboot. It might not stand up, but it also has the potential to far surpass the original.

[@Petteri82]

It seems too soon for a BSG style reimagining, so it basically needs to be "Babylon 6: The Next Generation". Please no more Crusade. :D

[@guaposneeze]

If you judge the reboot against your nostalgic memory of the original, it has no hope. If you just let it be whatever it wants to be, it could turn out to be a really fun show in its own right. The BSG 2003 reboot turned out to be super fun, and very much its own thing separate from the original Galactica.

[@Faction.Paradox]

@@guaposneeze Yes BSG is excellent. I was referring to a complete do-over remake IE repeating/shadows/Vorlons etc again verbatim. If it uses the original as a jumping off point then tells a completely different story as BSG did then I'm completely fine with that (though id still prefer a new story in the same universe).

[@NCC-72545A]

We are the fans. We watch what no one else will. We stand behind the cast crew and producers and no one will tell us otherwise we watch for the the return of Babylon 5. We will rejoice for the return of Babylon 5. B5 will never be forgotten as long as we keep watching and sharing it.

[@BrindsleyD]

The gold standard of retrospectives! Amazing as always. Thank you

[@selysia]

Every time I see the ending of Sleeping in Light I cry like a baby. It's Martin Sheen playing the soul hunter btw, not Michael Sheen ;)

[@The_Zilli]

In the Beginning had such great dialog that I get goosepumps still from some of the dialog - the President's plea for one last stand against the long night gets me all the time. Great show.

[@JosephKano]

They did that so well.

[@SilortheBlade]

I recall back when Season 5 started just randomly looking through channels and seeing Babylon 5, but when I stopped I realized this was a new episode, and I thought the show was done. It was such a wonderful feeling to get more of such a great show. Season 5 wasn't the best, but it was still great to watch.

[@darrenrenna]

Haven't seen a Babylon 5 episode since around 2003, this video made me tear up several times. Such a great tribute and recap of a series which has aged well in many ways.

[@anthonykeane4984]

Rewatch it , it improves each rewatch imo . Its worth it for londo and g"kar alone

[@bdchiaccio]

I know it will be epic before I've even seen it! Your loving dedication to the franchise really warms my heart!

[@benspencer8253]

A great video. For me, season 5 was the weakest but worth watching. Seeing Londo become emperor and watching G'Kar and Lyta go on a journey together provides so much closure than where we left them in season 4. This alone made wading through the weaker episodes of season 5 worthwhile

[@badboy-gn8fu]

i wouldnt say s5 was "weak." it was a season that wasn't even suppose to exist. S4 was suppose to be the last season. S5 was mostly tying up lose ends. to me it was one of the best seasons. it was heartwarming and emotional.

[@kathleenhensley5951]

I am skeptical of a new Babylon 5, I have an expression. "You can't go home again, because both you and home have changed too much" -- not excellent phraseology, but seriously, true. I want to remember Babylon 5 as a golden time in the past. There will never be another such cast. More special effects doesn't mean better stories.

[@samronin1141]

This is true if you are expecting both aspects to remain identical. Then you get something like the Ron D Moore Battlestar Galactica. Cautious but hopeful that JMS can achieve success again.

[@futurepastnow]

It'll be a different show, since sci-fi is about our world and not really about the future, and we live in a different world than 1995. If anyone can tell that story, it's JMS

[@hariman7727]

There were a LOT of changes made due to actors having/wanting to leave, and other factors. And new Babylon 5 might end up significantly different just by being able to be planned from start to finish without those factors.

[@umjackd]

You can't go home again, but that doesn't mean it's not worth trying and maybe discovering something new about a place that was home.

[@nbartlett6538]

I think it could be good as long as it's a new story with new characters. It would be a disaster to try and recast G'Kar for example. But there are very good actors who could turn a JMS script into something new and magical. Having said that it would be nice to see some cameos from Jurasik, Boxleitner, Tracy Scoggins... or dare we even hope for some Walter Koenig? 😍

[@sergioaccioly5219]

Gideon's Apocalypse Box: I've always assumed that it was a Vorlon device. Since I haven't watched the series in over 10 years, so the clues might be misremembered. Just so you know. The exterior is decorated in a way that reminds me of a Vorlon's enviro suit; the box talks in clicks and sounds before a sinthetysed voice is translated, like a Voorlon. And the irony of Gideon having a Shadow product (Galen) and and a Vorlon one (theBox) is delightful. Also, the obvious relationship between Crusade and Starblazers should be acknowledged. I do think Crusade could've been justas good as B5 in time, and LotR had promise too, in time. The Kung Fu targeting was an experiment that didn't work, granted, but it wasn't the first JMS tried these. That's what pilots are, after all.

[@CircusOfFive]

A wonderful retrospective. Thank you -- like many, I'm a longtime fan of B5 and loved the complex, layered, intelligent, epic, intimate and often quirky tales and characters. You really shone a light on why it so deserving of love. Cheers mate!!

[@christopherkowalczyk4405]

Whenever I tried to get someone to watch the show I always used the phrase Shakespearean to hook them. To not spoil things I told them that some characters could have been in place in Othello or Macbeth, and to look past some of the elements like cheaper set design and aged cgi explaining budget limits and that in the 90s it was top notch cgi.

[@scottperry7311]

Season 5 is a great season. Its better than season 1 and the first half of season 2. It sets up a series of future events to keep the franchise alive. It goes into more depth on telepaths, the struggle to get the interstellar alliance to work, what Sheridan has really become, and it also continues the character development of so many others. I loved season 5. I savored every episode the same why I savor turning every last page of a book I love. You know it was ending, you know that you will probably never see these characters again with such frequency. I remember watching it as it came out and I though it was such a sweet and sad good by. With every episode you knew that time was ticking, the end was coming and you just wanted to hold on and savor every friken second of what was left. The ending was just Soooooo good, so satisfying, and yet so so sad. It all made such an impression on me, it hit me, it left a mark, or lets say it made the mark of the previous four years even deeper. I don't think they can ever recreate this series, I hope they never try to "reimagine it" because they will try to change it with the messages of today and forget that the messages that it portrayed were timeless and so well done in the first place. At 17:00, I believe Zoe is Lochley sister, not her friend, though it has been some time since watching this episode so I could be mistake. I would very much recommend reading the novels continuing the story because they are very good and wrap up some of the plot lines very well. They also give more insight into the world of Babylon 5 during the series. They are much better books on whole than those that continue the Star Wars sage, I have read 40 or so of those and can tell you the few novels made for Babylon 5 are on a whole much better.

[@curtisnewton2437]

If I remember correctly, they were just friends, but with a very close bond. After her death Lochley returned to her family. But I understand you well, because of their close relationship. I loved that episode, because it was not just a stupid "Don't do drugs), but showed the human side to addiction

[@fangjokerLS]

Crusade was really going places, though most of the episodes filmed don't show off that potential. The unfilmed episodes leading to the end of the first season really show a lot of promise (even if it feels like someone's RPG campaign mixed up with Blake's 7 and Yamato fanfic)

[@rmsgrey]

The obvious comparison would be watching the first half season of Babylon 5 and stopping before even Signs and Portents. There are seeds sown, but nothing more than the merest hints of where the series would go and what it would become.

[@fangjokerLS]

@@rmsgrey oh almost literally. The next episode was the battle with the hybrid ship. Then, from the rest of the unfilmed episodes in their various structures, it's all arc.

[@davidconner-shover51]

This certainly had a bit of a Star Blazersesque beginning, almost all the way down to the big main gun

[@hariman7727]

Crusade was two different series. The actual series, and the producer mandated series.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@fangjokerLS We had the Earthforce/Shadow Hybrid ship, yes. Then the reveal of where Technomage tech came from at the season finale. In between was the Bester on the Run episode, Dureena backstory, the 'War Story' trilogy, that delved more into the Apocalypse box, plus Dureena being abducted and returning with some odd sword doohickey - and so forth. And then the cliffhanger finale. After that, JMS implied a 'false cure' might be found, too.

[@z0mb1e564]

I've always felt the biggest tragedy of Day of the Dead was that we didn't get to see Ivonava make peace with her mother. While I would have loved to see Claudia in the whole season, if she was in just that episode I would be immensely happier.

[@andre_santos2181]

31:00 - I really didn’t liked tbe explosion of the station because it was a “navigation hazard”. Everyone knew the station, its beacons and jumpgates, its sheer size, its star maps. It could become a museum, being tugged away even on another orbit. No need to explode it. Specially on space, where you had all directiona to move away.

[@vplexico]

Crusade was so good and getting even better. Peter Woodward was channeling Nicol Williamson in Excalibur. Racing the Night and the Memory of War were terrific. I wanted to see the rest of that story and have lamented its untimely end for 23 years now.

[@Ba1th1azar]

one point, londo wanted to avoid his fate... desperately. but the thing is, and its what makes fate seem like a real thing, is that we are the culmination of our experiences and even though in hindsight we lament our choices there really was only one choice we could have made in any given situation.

[@BalooSJ]

My understanding is that season 5 would have been different in two major ways under the original plan: 1. The civil war would have been lasted a few episodes into the season, much like the Shadow War was resolved in episode 4.06. The original plan was to have Intersections in Real Time as the season ender. This would have tightened the season up quite a bit. 2. Ivanova as Captain and station commander. Apparently, her S5 story arc got split between Lockley and Lyta - Ivanova was supposed to be the one having a relationship with Byron, not Lyta. That would likely have placed Sheridan as being more antagonistic toward the telepaths, creating conflict between the characters (basically switching the roles of Lockley and Sheridan).

[@sallgoodman2323]

You got me to watch all of Deep Space 9, now I may have to watch this series now 💯 Appreciate the hard work my dude 👍

[@minners71]

If you've never watched b5 before then you're in for a treat but I'm a bit baffled by your decision to watch this first.

[@hariman7727]

The first and fifth seasons are uneven, but season 2 through 4 are where B5 shines.

[@jari2018]

Has nothing on Babylon 5 4 first season's and are basicilly a B5 copy .Season 5 is a different matter

[@sallgoodman2323]

@@minners71 It came on while I was painting, it becomes background noise. 👍

[@Zenmyster]

As far as Lennier goes, I recall how B5 took a lot cues from the Arthurian legends. I took it to be that both Lennier and G'kar were reflections of Lancelot. One is a priest that becomes a warrior while the other is a old warrior who becomes a priest.

[@Pariahwulfen]

@ShoeUnited Pretty sure he had a son named Galahad, so Lancelot wasn't always celibate.

[@viperswhip]

Lancelot was added to the Arthurian legend by a FRENCH poet in the 11th Century to add some spiciness to the story. Don't mention him please lol

[@RedwoodTheElf]

@ShoeUnited Lancelot wasn't "The chaste", that was Galahad. Lennier is definitely Galahad.

[@William-the-Guy]

Lancelot is not a priest. I think his son Galad was. But Galahad was also a virgin, pure of heart, so Galahad seems to be more like Marcus.

[@William-the-Guy]

​@@RedwoodTheElfLancelot is the one in the love triangle with the queen. So in that way Lenier lines up with Lancelot.

[@Bazzer-zu7fu]

Another belter. Were you on the Charlie Sheen when you made that wee error 😂 I loved the DS9 one and I really like you didn't make comparisons even tho if you describe both with one sentence they sound the same. I applaud you once again. Keep up the great work

[@DaveNarn]

I’ve always liked B5’s practical lived-in version of science fiction. It wouldn’t be the same without him and I hope he gets another opportunity.

[@emmamorris6947]

Tracy Scoggins also starred in the B movie Alien Intruder

[@JosephKano]

One of the greatest series ever. This was storytelling. Yeh it had some issues in the end but it's 5 year arc was still way better than what was done to Andromeda. The last 2 seasons of that was drek. 'In the Beginning' has one of the best speeches ever.

[@Duragizer8775]

Ooh, _Andromeda_ . If ever a series needed a reboot, it's _Andromeda_ . So much potential squandered by a crappy production company and egotistical star that just wanted _Hercules in Space_ .

[@rmsgrey]

Yeah, firing the story guy after a season and a half did the show no favours. So many threads cut off and left dangling after that, and then the obvious continuity goofs of later seasons where they couldn't even keep it straight as to whether or not the Andromeda had a crew (beyond the main cast)...

[@andreewert6576]

@@rmsgrey Andromeda always felt like the answer to the question "what if Star Trek and Lexx had a baby?".

[@rmsgrey]

@@andreewert6576 Personally, I always put the midpoint of Star Trek and Lexx as Farscape - a show that put effort into making itself as good as its budget allowed, but which didn't take itself entirely seriously.

[@Petteri82]

The Sheen playing the soul hunter was Martin, not Michael. But that was my only gripe with a really enjoyable video. :)

[@hariman7727]

My one gripe is him completely missing the point of the "Demon"/Priest focused story, as the threat in that story ISN'T the physical threat of the demon, but the temptation of the Priest to use a lying alien to become a traveling charlatan preacher for God, and damn his own soul and possibly millions of others while also damaging the Faith itself.

[@seppingtondestamina9398]

Beat me to it. My sentiments exactly.

[@umjackd]

Ironically, "In the Beginning" and "Thirdspace" were my introductions to the series as well. We didn't get American broadcast TV in Indonesia where I was growing up, but they sold the TV movies on VCD there and I just lapped it up before eventually getting the whole show on DVD much later.

[@dragonshair]

At 59y/o, I have seen a lot of TV over the years. B5, while dated now, was exceptional for its time and the visual/audio, absolutely brilliant. But beyond that, was the writing. There are so very many expositions throughout the show that address the human condition, it borders on being a course in sociology. Loving the retrospectives. Thank you.

[@marcodavinci3150]

I actually had the chance to meet the lovely actress who played Sarah Cantrel! I was quite starstuck at her beauty and kindness in person. I had to ask about the weapon system scenes, she was quite disappointed like many in the production at the final product as they worked long days and she did ALL her own stunts hanging in a harness to try to make it work! She explained it wasn't supposed to look like it did and this probably happened due to budget constraints. She explained to me how blessed she felt to be part of another of JMS's visions and the cast was so thrilled when they learned what was in store if the series was picked up! She also mentioned that being on the same set and hanging out with Andreas Katsulas and seeing him at work was an unforgettable experience!

[@lovipoekimo176]

I just hope that the reboot will get the budget, creative freedom, and marketing support it needs and deserves. Science fiction is in a new golden age and B5 deserves to be there.

[@minners71]

Science fiction is in a new golden age ? Are you sure? I personally think there isn't a worst time for a b5 reboot than now. What with Discovery, Picard, The book of Boba Fett, Kenobi and Strange new worlds doing everything they can to destroy well written Sci fi.

[@Grivehn]

@@minners71 Only two decent sci-fi recently are/were Expanse and Orville. Even those have some shaky grounds, rest is just trash. Aye.

[@minners71]

@@Grivehn I just couldn't get into the orville but the Expanse was amazing as is the German Sci fi show Dark, which has become one of my favourite Sci fi shows along with B5, Fringe and the Expanse. If time travel is your thing then you NEED to watch Dark.

[@adamcline8728]

@@minners71 Hahaha, Dark was so awesome and it made me feel so bad.

[@minners71]

@@adamcline8728 Looking forward to the creators new show 1899.

[@jarednil69]

Let's be honest here, the Byron storyline was a means to save production costs. All scenes were on existing sets.

[@jimmeltonbradley1497]

Red Dwarf! Can't wait.

[@stevepittman3770]

Excellent work. It's been a while so I guess I'm due for a re-watch of Babylon 5 and these two videos have only made me want to do so even more.

[@mrs.onyango6504]

I thank you for retrospective babylon5, I have never seen any of it to date 2022.I will watch it soon because of your insight.

[@MickTheMage]

Oh, Red Dwarf next? I cannot wait! :)

[@reclaimatorerebus6531]

If I had a Billion dollars (ie if I had been the one to win one of those stupidly large powerballs) I would buy the right's to B5 and redo all the CG with modern CGI. As is often pointed out, for whatever its other faults, the space battle in Lost Tales were amazing! And I would love to see the whole series redone in that quality. Also, for 3rd space, I think I would make the ships continually shifting like some sort of shoggoth. For season 5, I think the big issue is that the psychic wars were over. I would have liked to see that, but obviously budget didn't allow that. I actually did like Lokly (sp?), but I wish they hadn't made her married to Sheridan previously. Finally, while I will give Strazinski credit for his amazing series, his actions surrounding the property rights, like "A call to Arms" kind of soured me on him as a person.

[@FoxtrotYouniform]

I have literally been checking every day for this video

[@Armatige]

This 46 year old man wells up every time he watches Sleeping in Light. The music score MAKES this ep.

[@alpha4IV]

I had such high hopes for the TNT run, and I think not having Ivanova really hurt that final season, but the made for tv movies that came out of it were great stand alone novels that added so much to the lore and myth making of the show in my mind as an older teenager at that time. Helped me fall in love with storytelling and writing.

[@jamesoneill8920]

In 1997 a 13 year old me went to Nexus 97 a sci-fi convention that was happening in Bristol. Richard Biggs and Jason Carter were among the guests for the con and despite having only seen the odd episode of Babylon 5 in the past I went to their panel. Richard Biggs proposed to his wife at that panel. Season four premiered on UK TV about a month or so later and ended up getting into the show from there, initially catching myself up with previous plot developments from a recap in, I think, TV Zone magazine. The following year, Biggs was supposed to return and be joined by Peter Jurasik. Unfortunately Richard Biggs had to cancel at the last minute. Any discussions about Richard Biggs' death always make me think of that first con experience back in 97 and being in the audience for that important moment in his life.

[@louisbrantmeyer8786]

Truly epic and magnificent review. The editing left me feeling like I had just been through all of the back half of Babylon 5 as a story and in its real-world history, accompanied by your usually balanced and deeply considerate editorial voice.

[@Dr_Will_Tarr]

And so, it begins!

[@mrnobody2873]

One scene that always stuck with me since there were few if any pop culture references was in the background where a human was suing a grey alien for the abduction of his great grandfather. Now, it seems like a lot of the Earthgov stuff with Clarke's assassination onward was proactively referencing the last two years in the US.

[@reclaimatorerebus6531]

Lost tales part 1 was a travesty in my opinion, but the space battle in part 2 was amazing, supported by a decent story (aside from the idea that a devastated Centauri could take on both Earth Force and the Alliance). Also, the music accompanying music for Sheridan's jump is one of my favorites. I just can't like the Legend of the Rangers though. Aside from the "kung fu space battle," the ships' designs outside of the Hand just felt underdeveloped. I really don't understand why they couldn't have used a Minbari Cruiser or, if necessary a Victory Class, and a White Star 2 or something. To your point, the Hand's ships were cool, but their back story, little as there was, sucked. However, I would have liked to see more Crusade more than any of the others. I'm a mixed bag on a reboot. I'd love to see a lot of the stuff in high res, but it's really hard to see how you replace some of the characters, especially Jaakar and Mollari . . .

[@daveroche6522]

GREAT MAKER! Just who are the moon-faced assassins of joy who'll never realise Babylon 5 was/is the best series ever, in Valens Name?

[@redkommie80]

Just makes you want to become one with the universe. You mean become dead drunk? Yes that too.

[@loupiscanis9449]

Thank you , RJC . 🐺 Loupis Canis .

[@sgt.tackleberry8752]

Enjoyed this retrospective, watching through B5 again. Also, that's Martin Sheen as the soul hunter, not Michael. I think the performance would have been markedly different had that been Michael :P

[@TL-cc8kc]

Damn, wanted to point out the mistake, but was not the first.

[@woogha]

The goodbye speech hit me. Hit me hard. For a word so intimate... It is a word we often never get the real chance to say to those we love. Friends, family, colleagues... Often gone before we can share what matters most. Make the other words matter to each other so you aren't left holding onto a goodbye. Thank you for making this video. Thank you for giving me these thoughts. And thank you for reminding me why I need to watch more of Babylon 5. (Oddly I have seen all of crusade)

[@AndrewD8Red]

Ah, bollocks. I was gonna watch this two days ago. Patreon money going to great use. 😒 Ah well, I'm sure it'll be worth waiting for. Because it's an RJC Retrospective and they're always gold(-pressed latinum)

[@Kammitoes]

This is one of my family's all time favourite shows. For me, an old SciFi fan from way way back, this is one of only 2 shows I can rewatch today without any cringe. The aliens are richly created and brought to life, equally richly, by the actors who played them. Likewise the main human characters. I've never found the dialog trite as I have with TOS, TNG and BSG and enjoyed MJS's imagined universe. I always found and still do find the SFX great, and hold up well even today. My lasting disappointment was the network's messing about with renewals that meant season 4 was rushed to include season 5 as well, and then season 5 that, while a lot of fun with some interesting new characters, was 'different' from the first 4 seasons. Thank you so much for your definitive retrospective. I have really enjoyed both parts.

[@Enshohma]

This was a fantastic retroactive and I finally sat down and started watching the series in whole because of it! On season three and forward.

[@crowtservo]

1:07:10 It wasn’t scheduled against just any NFL playoff game. It was scheduled on the east coast and central time zone against the infamous Tuck Rule Game. So yeah, if you loved Legend of the Rangers and wanted a full series, blame Tom Brady for it not happening. At the time I was living in an apartment with some friends and the two of them voted to watch the movie and so I drove to my parents house to watch the game. They seemed unimpressed with the movie, I was suddenly worried about the game because I wasn’t sure the Steelers could beat the Patriots the next weekend.

[@marabanara]

Christian had also turned down Straczynski's romantic advances during Season 4, which put her in a far more precarious position. They tried to get the remaining non renewed cast members to sign a new contract at 3am on a press tour without having shown this to their managers and given an impossible deadline, knowing Christian had committed elsewhere. She is very open about simply requesting a few episodes off to see through her other commitments, but was told no, that everyone was expected to sign on for 22 episodes. So she was very surprised when Tracey Scoggins was taken with her limited availability for about half the season. I think it was very unprofessional of JMS to put his female lead in this position.

[@vysharra]

It’s very telling that her story is “I needed some accommodations I felt were reasonable” and his is “nah, she just up and left”. Because yeah, if you don’t get the thing you’re negotiating for, you leave. Otherwise it’s just a request or empty bluff. The rumors of some potential harassment going on or contract frackery just lends credence to her version of events since all tell a story of less than professional, full faith leadership when renewing.

[@William-the-Guy]

​@@vysharra Any documentation of this or is it just he-said, she-said?

[@dominic.h.3363]

I like the lines written for Lochley, I do not have anything against Scoggins, but I would have preferred if Lochley didn't exist, and her lines were written for Ivanova, performed by a stand-in for Christian if necessary. Lochley's entire backstory feels invasive, and most of the plot of the fifth season feels destructive. Instead of the feeling of closure you've got with DS9's last couple episodes, instead of some climax to what has been building up until that point, you get the feeling that each character is slowly being picked apart to reconstruct them as something entirely new. They didn't just blow up Babylon 5 the station, they figuratively blew up the entire cast...

[@t5hammer871]

Wonder what would happen if the psi-core had convinced the Vorlons to help them take control as a matter of "order"

[@ChumblesMumbles]

At 29:00 - they really did Lennier dirty with that heel turn in Season 5. I prefer to ignore that plot line entirely and in my version it never happened. He just went and joined the Rangers to keep doing awesome Lennier stuff.

[@peachesrambo4037]

What he did was right. He would have saved the ship.

[@hasunoushasu9710]

Great video as always. About lost tales, I always assumed that the entity was supposed to be an alien race similar to the vorlon (or maybe even traitors vorlons) that were "imprisoned" on earth during the war since they said the entity couldn't leave earth by herself. I mean, the vorlon are pure energy, show very powerful abilities and can inhabit the minds of others. And they did pose as angel on earth and similar being in other alien worlds (and demons are fallen angels right?). Well, that's how I understood that when I watched it : another remnant of a past time.

[@jameslivingstone7428]

The Speech by G'Kar at the end almost never fails to choke me up a bit

[@AlannaStarcrossed]

What an incredible retrospective - thank you for making this. Can't wait for the red dwarf!

[@joemck74]

I have to ask if you've ever read the 'Babylon 5: Through a Dark and Twisted Mirror' books. It's going on 20 years old now, but the site is still up. It shows the story if just a couple of tiny things had gone differently during the Mimbari War, and the quality of the writing is amazing. And it's HUGE. It's split into 5 books and each one would be a weighty tome if it was on paper. It makes the Vorlons quest for Order and Obedience as terrifying as the Shadows desire for Evolution through Chaos, and the Thirdspace aliens more frightening than both. Apparently it's JMS recommended.

[@samjascott7063]

Yeah, it's a great alternative universe for B5. I still wonder what Cathedral looks like.

[@jamespfp]

48:20 -- RE: The music in Crusade and the sound cutting for the space battle -- I dunno for certain because I didn't watch Crusade, but given what you've showed us in clips, I'm thinking that perhaps JMS had the Kurosawa film "Ran" in mind. It has one particularly striking battle scene in which all the sounds disappear except for the haunting musical score which is frequently discordant, but at a key moment in the sequence, a gun shot rings out (normal sound resumes) and the music cuts.

[@jamespfp]

SEE ALSO: watch?v=w-VxyEjPlRU

[@beneisen6982]

Another wonderful retrospective. I somewhat disagree about yorur comment on Lennier's story arc. A lot of this was built up in previous seasons, such as in Ceremonies of Light and Dark, where he takes the time to confess his love for Delenn. Although he says he's ok with her fate being elsewhere, Bill Mumy does a fantastic job acting here with him saying it regretfully, like he is yearning for another option. A lot of the themes of relationships and unrequitted love (whether in Londo's wives, Marcus and Ivanova, Zack and Lyta, etc.) that are present in the character interactions illustrate how these different people deal with such difficult realties when it comes to matters of the heart. I definitely agree that more should have been with Lennier's arc, such as more moments of him realizing that joining the rangers to remove himself from those feelings isn't working.

[@DouglasEdward84]

Amazing stuff Rowan, these are just such amazing journeys back to series I love with added information and context that you so wonderfully provide. Looking forward to the next major project.

[@massaosaito4084]

Wait, WTF? The plot of the plague WASN'T the main plot of Babylon 5??? Cuz when was a kid the show about finding the cure to the plague which would destroy earth WAS called Babylon 5! Here in Brazil at least

[@ThePhantomSquee]

Excellent retrospective on my favorite sci-fi franchise yet! I really appreciate the attention paid to Crusade in particular. It's sorely underrated by the fans imo. Eilerson is one of the most interesting characters in the B5 universe to me, and I wish we'd had a chance to see more of him. I think JMS' comments on the nature of the reboot bear mentioning, and it would have been nice to see them in the video. For those unaware, JMS has specifically said that the reboot will not be a retelling of the same story, but a new plot built around some familiar story beats. He's also made it clear that the CW is giving him a great deal of creative control.

[@badwulfstudio]

That music, as the station blows apart, never fails to bring a tear

[@alanmike6883]

Babylon 5 is my truest love

[@chrisdufresne9359]

Wait, the reason Crusade bombed was the same as Firefly? That explains so much. TNT pulled a Fox.

[@christopherstephenjenksbsg4944]

Thank you sir! Both parts of this "Retrospective/Review" are excellent. I started watching Babylon 5 early in its first season, and I loved it all the way through. (Even Season 5.) I have some trepidations about a reboot. Will it be as good as the first go-around? It's hard to imagine it being any better than the original.