Battletech Tactics: Optimized Assault Mechs?

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[@FoxxofNod]

I don't really think weight class belongs in the same discussion as battle value. Just sticking with introtech, half of all assault mechs have a lower BV than the highest BV heavy. It's also quite close all things considered, the highest BV heavy and the highest BV assault are only separated by ~500 BV, there are Locusts that cost more than that. As you go up the tech levels that separation actually shrinks until you are using advance rules and the BV of the highest BV heavy is actually larger that the highest BV assault. Weight class is an in-universe distinction that we find useful for categorization. BV is an out of universe distinction that we use to "balance" games. A good example I found it Thug vs. Warhammer. The Thug THG-10E has two PPCs that it can fire basically every turn. The Warhammer WHM-6D has two PPCs it can fire every turn. There are differences of course, the Thug has more armor and better secondary weapons. The Warhammer has an extra heat sink so it doesn't need to spend a turn cooling down halfway through the battle. The Thug is 1501 BV while the Warhammer is 1471 BV. For context the difference would barely cover the cost of a single infantry squad. We would treat them as nearly equivalent out of universe, almost interchangeable. In universe though, the Thug is a rare and prestigious assault mech while the Warhammer is a ubiquitous heavy trooper mech, as likely to be piloted by a well off pirate as a member of a house military.

[@joshuawilson8804]

Glad you are still making Battletech videos.

[@daeamiralis]

My new favorite assault, as someone who doesn't use them too frequently, is the pillager

[@daeamiralis]

It's a funnier victor

[@daeamiralis]

It's also fitting for me as a capellan player, putting stealth armor on a gauss sniper is just absurd

[@FoxxofNod]

The Pillager is such a beast. I have seen it reliably kill two mech a turn.

[@kalixascsi66]

It's my favorite as well. Just an absolute monster of a mech that can even face down Clan mechs and win.

[@Beatnik59]

I think you reveal an important point about assault mechs here. The problem with a mech like the Longbow or Salamander is that they make it very easy for the enemy to counter them. The tactical options are rather limited by virtue of the optimized weapons systems, and you can predict what the assault mechs are going to do. This is harder to do for a mech like the Stalker, or Zeus, or Highlander. These units can fight at long range. They may even want to fight at long range. But they can duke it out in short range if pressed, and are also competent in hand to hand if it comes to that. There is some tactical versatility here that you just don't have in a mech like the Longbow or Salamander. I think most assault mechs--not all, but most assault mechs--are optimized to play in the center front position in the same way as 6'4", 350lb. Dexter Lawrence II is optimized to play nose tackle for the New York Giants. Such a man is not going to be, and will never be, a breakout wide receiver working the flanks. But his strength, size, and toughness is an asset in the middle, drawing double teams, filling gaps, and flattening any runner who gets close to him. This is the sense in which we can understand a mech like the BNC-3E. Does it have optimized armament for base-to-base annihilation? Not really. But at 95 tons, its body is the weapon. What makes assault mechs "optimized" for certain roles has less to do with how it is armed, but how the sheer size imposes some limitations, while lifting others. You aren't going to get many restrictions on how much armor you can put on an 85 ton frame. But you are going to get some pretty steep opportunity costs in terms of the amount of engine you'll need to propel that thing at the speed you would want. You won't be doing many rapid flanking actions in an Awesome, or an Atlas, because you can't do such actions; they are just too slow. But I can trust these kind of units to hold the center far better than I would a Locust or Jenner.

[@Funkin_Disher]

Awesome, Stalker, variant banshee or sometimes a Highlander are my typical assault picks. If youre slow you want some long range punch. The Corsair is great but not strictly canon, i wish i were able to use it more often.

[@HouseDavieMerc]

In 3025 era games I rarely take an assault mech in a BV balanced game. I prefer the heavy mech class for my big guns. They can put up almost as much firepower at a single range bracket while moving at a faster speed. 4/6 is just enough faster then 3/5 to cause noticeable disadvantages to a force stuck at 3/5 . Especially with elevation changes in terrain. It's less of an all your eggs in 1 basket approach with slightly cheaper heavies as well.

[@daeamiralis]

You can also typically field an additional heavy or upper-class medium with good loadouts for every assault mech

[@daeamiralis]

Not in all cases, I guess on average its 3 heavys to 2 assaults, but in fringe cases you can really squeeze in extra units and get twice the fellas and have more movement and firepower that way

[@andrewszigeti2174]

Depends on what you're doing with the rest of your points. For example, a Longbow doing indirect fire is a waste. You can get the same effect from an LRM carrier for way cheaper. What the Longbow brings is ability to take fire... which means getting into LOS to be shot at occasionally. It can also defend itself against fast, light targets... but there are cheaper ways to defend an LRM carrier against those as well. By and large, it's better to take a less-specialized mech (say, the Zeus) for long range mech fire than a heavily specialized one like the Longbow. Or try an Archer, 80% of the LRMs for a lower BPV. Or even a pair of Trebuchets, for MORE LRM fire, and significantly better speed and maneuverability.

[@bruced648]

since I never use bv to set up forces for our missions, I cannot relate to your discussion.

[@FoxxofNod]

Narrative game are more fun anyway.

[@Magermh]

Is it worth the BV investment when using an optimized assault mech when you’re having a hard time taking advantage of the mech? When finding myself in the position that I am struggling with an assault mech it is normally a botched deployment. Or my opponent brings a hard counted like battle armor or infantry to the game. Sometimes its because the assault was too slow to keep up with the other mechs. Most of the time my assaults are chosen for threat projection. ... Massive wall of useless text ... Optimized depends on the game type that you’re playing, and the lances or stars focus. I have been playing clans lately so I will deliver that perspective. Some clan examples I look at as optimized are the Cygnus 2, Kingfisher Prime, and Turkina B. The Turkina B with a nice movement of 3/5/3, all long ranged energy weapons, and good armor. The Kingfisher for being cold, a 4/6 movement, long ranged energy weapons with some critical seeking and a reputation of being hard to kill. Cygnus 2 is an example of me taking the mech for the main role of AAA and secondary roles of critical hunter or armor shredder. The reasoning is that Cygnus 2 is optimized for over-heating with a movement of 4/6 or 3/5 when properly heated, long ranged weapons, and good armor “layout”. When overheating the mech that rear armor is a little higher in the case of overheat shutdown and fall. The frontal armor is weaker. But the front has two HAG 40s and likely I will bring another mech or vehicle to punch holes in the armor. The Cygnus 2 would have a BV of 4437 with a ¾ pilot. What do you consider an optimized assault mech?

[@MD-yd8lh]

Love it. Great topic

[@thurin84]

optimized assault mechs are my specialty. you want a mech with 4 ac 20s? gotcha. need an assault mech will all ac2s? beyotch pleez! need a monster with 20 small lasers, and a ppc just for fun? seek no more oh wanderer! need an old faithful 40 pt long range output round, after round, after, round, after round with jump jets to boot? im your guy. name a 3025 tech configuration, and ive probably got mech for dat.

[@jonbezeau3124]

I don't go for specialized Assaults. The only thing the class can't do is speed... faster opponents will always be able to maneuver to a favourable range and punch above their weight against your big punching bag

[@thurin84]

never say never my friend. im a master at making you regret your map choice lol.