BATTLETECH: The Lancelot

[@upandaljm]

Always loved this mech. Fun Fact: There is no Lancelot in the Arthur legend. He was added by the French as a way to troll the English as he was from across the sea and very beautiful.

[@RaithSienar]

Funner Fact: The Arthurian Mythos as a whole is a bunch of Christianized (Welsh) Celtic legends that were all originally only loosely related that then got put into one epic by Christian Monks where they made a possibly real, but possibly mythical Welsh-but-raised-by-Romans Warlord as the legendary, and then it was added onto by the French.

[@upandaljm]

@@RaithSienar I don't remember any of that from the Mabinogen. What were the three gift Arturus was given. (A description is fine if you don't know the names. I can only remember two personally)

[@joaomonteiro5538]

Far as I know, Arthur was a roman officer by the name of Clive Owen and he fought the saxons with trebuchets he just happened to have available for his woad allies.

[@stormcrow28]

The Lancelot is one of Comstar's better units to use against its foes. The speed and firepower can match medium Clan units, and 9.5 tons of armor is enough to weather the occasional hit. The Clan version with 3 Clan Large Pulse Lasers or all ER weapons is of course exceedingly nasty, but so are most Clan units.

[@CharlesUrban]

As a fire support platform, this thing solves all of the Rifleman's problems. That said, I like the Lancelot and Rifleman equally because the latter is far easier to maintain.

[@mattikuokkanen]

A very good point! Definitely a better choice for recon units.

[@Omniseed]

the Rifleman has no issues, provided you can get your hands on an LFE for it

[@PeachDragon_]

When used as designed the rifleman has no issues

[@kevinmulkey9774]

Lancelot, Black Knight,and Flashman are the trifecta of 2750 heavy mechs.

[@TheStraycat74]

modern times people do not name their kids Lance very often, but back in the Middle Ages people named their kids Lancelot

[@Fitzkrieg]

The MechCommander 2 soundtrack is greatly appreciated

[@kythebengzon8023]

Ah I remember this during a dark age game. It helped fight off a Clan Trinary in it's original Star league configuration. It managed to Head shot a summoner and help leg a Mad Dog.

[@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus]

How did I miss the fact the vulture is called the mad dog? Now I need to have a mad cat and a mad dog that i can paint spotted orange with purple heads edit note maybe they’d work in conjunction with each other with one being a spotter/shotgun Roll and the other a sniper/marksmen? I could see it work if some lrms or that other weapon with indirect fire. Final edit note Iam just happy I got told/reminded about a neat mech.

[@boomboomzoomer9390]

The redesign makes this mech look a lot like the Shadow Hawk, but with lasers for arms. Gives me some serious Tau battlesuit vibes. I LOVE IT.

[@Koniving]

Ah, Sir Lancelot. The man who literally F'd around and found out; sort of a fitting name in its own right.

[@cameronturner833]

Thanks for filling some of the void Tex leaves behind in the wake of his amazing voiced mech explanations. Even if you don't have the nice gritty voice he has, you do just as well articulating the information. Appreciate the content mate. People like you help feed my newfound love for Battletech

[@BigRed40TECH]

Awesome! Thanks Cameron :D

[@maxanderson2180]

Just used this mech for the first time on the tabletop, and I have to say that speed and firepower are amazing, especially for a desperate breakout! It moonwalked onto the dropship while giving the dragons hell.

[@jdmmike7225]

DAMN!!! I really had no idea how BADASS the Lancelot is. That kinda weaponry combined with that ridiculous speed. This thing is LEGIT. Consider me a fan. Awesome job on this vid Bear

[@Zeeke01]

Check that on the list of things that Amaris ruined... That being said, good video! And I do love the redesign of the Lancelot

[@rmcdudmk212]

The Lancelot is a solid but mostly forgotten heavy mech laser boat. It may look a little goofy, but it can be a beast if allowed to run free.

[@raedien]

I think it looks sick AF. The modern takes at least.

[@shadekerensky3691]

Glorious! My all-time favorite Battlemech gets a video!

[@BigRed40TECH]

nice :D

[@andrewboyer7544]

Just a nasty mech. Hard to pin down and excellent firepower.

[@BigRed40TECH]

100%

[@bakomusha]

The day you uploaded this I was actually playing a 10k point game with a list a friend put together. the Lancelot was one of my mechs. Sadly I have no idea about it's capabilities as it was dead before I could get guns on target. In fact due to clanner cheese and missile spam I lost 6 of my 8 mechs without scoring a single hit.

[@AshtonCoolman]

Great video. I'm also really digging the Mechcommander background music. I used to play in a league over dial-up in the late 90s.

[@SteelWolf13]

Previous video i watched was on the mongoose. Might give it another look and see if it's on any PC games. Going to have to look at your uploaded list before requesting reviews on 'Mechs like the Battlemaster, Gryphon, shadowhawk, Crusader (hate the unicorn horn love the rest of the look. Stick a gryphon head on it instead :) Stinger or Marauder. Although Tex did cover it quite well. Love his "and when you have to pummel the absolute dog... out of some one.." and then goes on to terrify clansmen with more description. Awesome video series.

[@jabronijones90]

This might be my new favorite mech I've never heard of :D

[@depth386]

In a BEX 3025+ campaign I came across the single heat sink version of this thing and weeped for the loss of SLDF technology.

[@r0mc0mmedy]

Hah, first. Haven't seen it yet, but I know this's gonna be an absolute banger of a video

[@BigRed40TECH]

It's a fascinating mech.

[@reighniz4488]

*drool* Bruh, I think I'm in love. A bit more offensive than is ideal for my style, but this is a BEAUTIFUL and deadly design.

[@seancooney8799]

Ahh one of my favorite heavys ... We use to play mercenary campaigns with salvage rules in 3060 tech ... During a raid against the clans I was able to salvage a clan xl engine and two clans er large for my Lancelot ... We also ended upgrading the ppc with a capacitor as well put in a targeting computer .. ran a little hotter but made the Lancelot a flanker from hell.

[@mikestrickler4299]

In the local game, we have acquired two star league trophies! My character runs one and I have backed up and shredded some pretty determined opponents.

[@raedien]

I'm a simple man... you show me something that reminds me of the MW4 Hellhound and I upvote.

[@dzeclectic2327]

I like it's esthetic. The most comely parts of the warhammer and rifleman.

[@TheGreatDayne1983]

It’s like a baby Black Knight

[@SgtPorkchop91]

Love your vids. I listen to these while studying and driving. Hopefully to see more mech videos. Specifically the Corsair, Annihilator, or even the Fafnir the Boombox of the Inner Sphere

[@BigRed40TECH]

Annihilator will be out before the end of the year.

[@SgtPorkchop91]

@@BigRed40TECH there is not enough thumbs up to give when i saw this comment!!

[@OptimusJedi]

Lancelot: “Trust me with your life but not your money or your wife.” *Probably*

[@mojoforthewin3069]

The Lancelot seems like an ideal fast harasser mech. Use its exceptional speed to keep range from anything in its weight class, while taking advantage of its long-range weapons compliment to wear down enemy armor for strikers to shatter.

[@nickolasturner]

The clan IIC is a monster, I’d almost say the most dangerous 60 ton mech on the tabletop.

[@charlesmtaylor31]

This is one of my favorite SLDF/ComStar 'Mechs.

[@fatcoyote2]

So, the Lancelot began life as a Crab, then became the Lancelot

[@44R0Ndin]

The ideal Lancelot would be one that like the Royal variant mounts Ferro-Fibrous armor, but is otherwise identical to the standard Star League design. However, the armor tonnage would not be reduced, instead using Ferro Fibrous armor to increase survivability despite the XL engine. Perhaps you could do a video on the subject of those star-league era weapons developments that were the extended range energy weapons. The IS ERLL and IS ERPPC to be specific. More specifically, you should go into how they're an ideal example of "A new and shiny development of an existing system does not automatically make it better than an existing system". Because all you're getting with those systems is more range. And what you trade for that range is one of the more precious resources available on a Mech or vehicle, namely how much heat that weapons platform can dissipate in one turn. Personally, both of those weapons being fitted to anything not designed for them from the ground up sets a very large red flag in my brain, telling me to avoid that thing like the plague. If they were just a few points less hot as a weapons system, the argument could be made that they're worth it... sometimes. As it is, they're virtually never worth it, because 99% of the units that fit those two weapons systems weren't designed from the ground up around the increased heat load they output. And that means a sacrifice must be made in one of three areas: Either you don't fit enough heat sinks to be able to fire them every turn (turning the one you don't fire into dead weight you're dragging around with you for literally no reason), or you cut armor weight to fit extra heat sinks (doesn't matter DHS or SHS, the sacrifice still makes it less durable), or you downgrade the engine to find the extra weight to mount more heat sinks. None of those trade-offs are worth it for "a little bit more range and not any more damage". Because you have to ask yourself. When in mech-on-mech combat does a Large Laser or normal PPC NOT have sufficient range to damage the target? The answer is "not often enough to make it worth the trade", in my experience. And if you do need that extra range, you'd be better served by using all the tons of both weapon system and additional heatsinks needed and investing them into an entirely different weapons system, such as an LRM launcher of some sort. You sacrifice SO MUCH for that little bit of extra range, and it only matters quite rarely because either you're fast enough to catch up to your enemies, or you're making enough of a problem in other ways that the enemies are more than happy to close the range with you. That's why I say that the only things that MIGHT have a use for IS ERPPC's and IS ERLL's are anti-air weapons systems and ASFs. Those are usually engaging targets at the longer range brackets where the extra range might ACTUALLY make a significant difference in your to-hit rolls, or alternatively turn something that's out of range into something you can take a shot at. But when up close and personal, heat and damage matter a heck of a lot more than range, up to the point where you're right on top of an enemy combatant, and even then only the ERPPC gets a meaningful benefit over it's standard-issue peer in that the ERPPC has no minimum range while the PPC has a minimum range of 90m, below which you have a vastly increased difficulty to actually hit and damage the target due to the anti-feedback electronics in the PPC's firing circuits (aka the "PPC safety circuits"). However that advantage only lasts until the Snub-Nose PPC is developed, after which time there is literally zero reason to use the IS ERPPC up close, because you're literally throwing away heat you could be using for OTHER weapons systems to do more damage. Pulse lasers on the other hand, I do love me some IS Large Pulse Lasers. In fact, I love them SO much that if I'm building a "brawling" variant of a 'Mech that would otherwise be fit with PPCs, I'll try to fit Large Pulse Lasers there instead. This usually works out quite well, they share similar heat output and the LPL actually does a little bit more damage when within its effective range. Granted, the LPL does have quite a bit shorter range than a standard IS LL or PPC, but that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make for the increased damage output and reduced difficulty of the to-hit role thanks to pulse lasers being more accurate than their standard laser counterparts. I'll only go back to the PPCs if I'm expecting to find enemy units that are running ECM systems, because that's a good way to shut those down at least temporarily.

[@Dracobyte]

Nice fire support mech!

[@fedupN]

Love this thing. Big fan of non ammo dependent damage dealing. This amount of long range pain it throws down is pretty nice. Granted, there are alot of other mechs I think of before it and it is rather bleh without all its special tech.

[@arcdraconis9579]

found this in battletech extended mod playthrough, it feels exactly the same as a rifleman in terms of free space and hardpoints

[@ironboy3245]

Eh, the engine is bigger and it can't run ballistics, but as an energy boat it's really effective. I stuck DHS on mine and ran with 4 large lasers. Thing had to use coolant flush to fire more than 1 alpha, but it was a nasty little sniper

[@squirrellordsgaming2772]

I’m coming to the conclusion that the succession wars are the reasons why we can’t have nice things.

[@intersepter3332]

In our campaign we had, the White knight, black knight, lancetot , and modified Rifle men. The white knight was built from in game mechanics. 100 tons, speed 1, run 2.. our basic tsunami of armor and firepower. Best lance I’ve ever been on.

[@Marveryn]

man i do like the more modern pictures, lancelot always been one of those that has decent firepower but i never like cause of look of course part of that is the lack of fist

[@johnfisher9692]

Always liked this mech though my preference is to remove the PPC and put in another large laser. Eases supply and repair and less taxing for the battle computer :) I'd use the weight saved to increase the armour. And now the mech can run and fire all long range weapons with no heat worry to distract the pilot. The damage/range difference in game between a PPC and a large laser isn't that much

[@kathilmechworks4895]

Cutting edge for its time and took a toll against the clanners on Tukayyid find it a hard mech to play, but can play the clanners game and win against them especially if you play them in numbers or have something with SRMs or something sitting back with LRMs.

[@roguerifter9724]

I remember being so happy when I first heard they had introduced Plasma weapons to Battletech until I discovered that rather then being a new energy weapon it was an ammo dependent weapon. That's the main reason I don't like the Dark Age Lancelot.

[@decepticonpecock]

ammo is worth it if it means I can punch holes and spike heat in one shot.

[@TroySeward]

Cool mech great video.

[@BigRed40TECH]

Thanks!

[@CDMJDMHHC]

you could replace er-med laser for large large laser and a light PPC for the krupp model and add a rear firing er medium laser or keep the PPC or the large laser to see what else you fit in.

[@ChaosTicket]

I love the Lancelot in 2750 and 3050. Its a fast heavy mech with strong direct firepower and no dependence on ammunition. Its an ideal that it does very well to fulfill. The LNC25-02 model that was downgraded however had too many flaws to be effective. It ended up as a worse Crab. The clans upgrade their own to make the Lancelot C and C2 with superior clantech energy weapons. In design the Lancelot seems to have been influenced by the Marauder heavy battlemech. Its essentially been stripped down to maximize speed. In turn the Lancelot may have influenced the design of the Stormcrow clan medium omnimech.

[@michaelkimberling7307]

That’s the menu music from mech commander 2 isn’t it?

[@JosephMitchell-zw3db]

Loved this mech

[@wperdew6078]

Picked the grand dragon when I chose what mechs I wanted for the campaign we are playing, didn't know about this one. I like this, which one would you go for, Grand Dragon, or Lancelot?

[@BigRed40TECH]

oooo. Hard choice. I'd probably pick the Lancelot, fits my style a bit more, but I love the Dragon / Grand Dragon too.

[@wperdew6078]

Yeah the lancelot having an xl engine and no ammo to worry about seems safer

[@faithmcclosky4528]

Great video as always Red. I especially liked the little bit of Big Red Humor at the end. Keep posting those videos, Red!

[@boomboomzoomer9390]

A Griffin, Shadowhawk, and Blackjack walk into a bar...

[@Thud-pq8rl]

As a long time Cappie player I'm ashamed to admit that I've only recently discovered the joy of the plasma rifle. I'm a gonard I know, but dang that thing is brutal. I rarely use the Lancelot because it really needs jump jets. I just can't figure out how to get them in there without severely cutting into it's firepower.

[@randomnetsurfer]

60 tons is NOT a good mass for jump jets. It's more efficient to drop down to 55 tons because you save 0.5 tons per jet. Look at the Quickdraw as an example.

[@collynbertin3260]

Fun to see annelevator company shift over to weapons in battletech. If its the same thyssen-krupp company that makes elevators

[@BoisegangGaming]

The Royal Lancelot is one of those few "Royal" variants that are less effective than its base model, which sure is... a choice made by the devs. I guess they figured "well we gotta show the SLDF getting a crap mech every now and then".

[@Linkous12]

The TRO was, to me, unnecessarily harsh on the Succession Wars era variant. It's a solid direct fire-support mech; 9.5 tons of armor paired with a speed of 64.8 kph isn't bad at all (for it's tonnage), especially considering it's role.

[@BigRed40TECH]

I think it's too slow and just struggles with firepower output and heat. Might be better than the Rifleman still though.

[@franksmedley7372]

Hello Red. I have to agree with just about everyone else here. The Lancelot is a very good Mech for its initial era, and again when the tech was rediscovered to return it to its 'glory days'. But, while downgraded, it was a horrible design. A fast heavy Mech with an all-energy, long range weapons package, is something that every Commander can appreciate, and use in their Unit Composition. Such a Mech would be a horror to discover if allowed to accompany fast light Mechs on a deep penetration raid. Far from resupply, and only backed up by a covertly inserted Light Repair group (Repair Vehicle, a few guards, and a couple of supplies carriers). Given the average 'rear area' type of coverage by military units, the Lancelot would wade through defenders and sow devastation in the wake of its passage. An Enemy Commander could be forgiven for 'ignoring' lighter Mech forces in his rear areas, but a Lancelot would definitely cause a shift in Enemy front line forces, as he would almost have to peel heavier forces away to 'deal' with the threat of such a fast heavy Mech behind him. My own experiences show me that when playing with Players that take into account such matters, that any force of all-energy Mechs behind one's lines is a threat. But, the threat level increases nearly exponentially if a Heavy is present in your rear areas. A single heavy, like the Lancelot, supported by fast light Mechs, is something an Enemy Commander has to deal with, and cannot ignore. If well positioned, the force can cut supply lines. Forcing the Enemy to fall back to shorten their supply chain, or even fall all the way back to it's primary supply area, just to keep the Lancelot and its fellows from crippling the Enemy's ability to fight. Just my thoughts.

[@cobalt968]

You know, there's a 75-ton mech called the Flashman that mounts a very similar weapons array to the Lancelot, and is also a very fast mech for its size due to its XL engine. Per the Sarna entry, it was often attached to mech formations to guard the rear from ambushes and to push forward when needed to provide fire support. From the way you describe the Lancelot's role as a hard-hitting and heavy harasser, I wonder if it might have also been created to counter those kinds of mechs? It certainly does seem like an evolution of the Lancelot concept.

[@eddapultstab2078]

@@cobalt968 as they are both star league issue, its easy to imagine that kerensky looked at the Lancelot and blurted out, "I know what the Taurians would do with this, we should build a counter for it, just in case."

[@franksmedley7372]

@@cobalt968 : Yes, the Flashman could be a 'counter' to the 'raid' role for the Lancelot. Both are relatively 'fast' heavy Mechs, both do not require a logistics train, and both would cover rear areas nicely, and threaten them as well. This means that 'artillery' Mechs, like your missile boats, would be concentrated at the front and not be lured off to hunt down raiders in the rear area. It also means that your logistics train could be optimized for 'ammo hungry' units, and these 'energy-wagons' would be there... in or near the rear... to rush up to support the front, or fall back to deal with supply chain issues, like raiders.

[@meshuggahshirt]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here: the downgraded Lancelot is fine. What are the well-known shortcomings of a Rifleman? Poor heat management, thin armor, and ammo dependency. Kallon Industries responded with the JagerMech, which solved one of those problems, made the other two worse, and cost half a million C-bills more. Luthien responded with a 60-ton Mech that had two more tons of armor, nine more heat sinks, no ammo-dependent weapons, the same price tag as a Rifleman, and a PPC on top because that's the Draconis way. It's not the Star League Mech you dreamed of, sure, but for a third of the price it's the Succession Wars Mech you didn't know you wanted.

[@Arvyn992]

For the name lancelot makes me think of sir lancelot from monty python's and the holy grail especially when he was storming the castle

[@RyeFields]

So what I'm hearing is a sniper that can still brawl? Sign me up

[@gbprime2353]

The Lancelot always struck me as a well designed mech in terms of heat and firepower. It was over-engined, though. In any scenario that allowed customization, you drop the engine to a 300xl and add armor, more medium lasers, and more heat sinks. But like the Starslayer, an excellent mech that did not survive the fall of the Start League in anything resembling a functional form.

[@BigRed40TECH]

It's not over-engined if you are trying to keep up with a Phoenix-Hawk. :)

[@Tanjman_]

Would like to see this model in the MW5M game

[@chaosknight9131]

I can see a common refit for the Succession Wars version to be removing 2 heatsinks for another 2 tons of armor, making it less of a Coffin and more of an average heavy mech for the era, no better or worse then it's peers in it's weight class

[@adambloom8019]

100% need a take on the Flying Scotsman, the HIGHLANDER

[@smokey_mcbong]

Would you consider doing a segment on Wolfhound light mech some time in the future?

[@BigRed40TECH]

The Wolfhound is meant to be covered at some point this year.

[@smokey_mcbong]

@@BigRed40TECH Great! Look forward to it.

[@smokey_mcbong]

@@BigRed40TECH That for covering it.

[@alpharaxx8895]

I want one of these so bad

[@Kingofdragons117]

They are in the Comstar Battle II pack iirc.

[@SNP185]

the clan variant that uses 3 Large pulse lasers is the real hero

[@MechanicalFrog]

Fun mech

[@BigRed40TECH]

Guinevere agrees XD

[@MechanicalFrog]

@@BigRed40TECH Wet ladies in swamps handing out swords is no basis for a government anyway.

[@walterhaider869]

Please add the Lancelot's production factory to the list of things Amaris ruined. Thank you.

[@BigRed40TECH]

It was on Mars :\

[@krieg4017]

Good.

[@BigRed40TECH]

Very good

[@adfury]

Never had that one. Always liked the mini, but it just got away from me.

[@Kingofdragons117]

Are there any Comstar backed mercenary companies?

[@Spartaner251]

little brother of the Black Knigh, with a lot of the utility lacking.

[@derricklung]

If you described Lancelot as one of Arthur’s most trustworthy knights, then the affair would be “ironic.” Since he was described as one of his most capable, the affair might be described as expected or predictable.

[@sim.frischh9781]

This is one of those machines that would be interesting but never got much representation in the novels. I like the new art works, the old ones were sorely lacking. Shame we never got it for MWO, but there were too little variations for PGI to work with.

[@meshuggahshirt]

Before Tukayyid the main people using them were the Draconis Combine, and after Tukayyid the main people using it were the Blakists. Between them the Lancelot's probably earned a reputation as being a rare mech for villains.

[@sim.frischh9781]

@@meshuggahshirt The Darconis guys sometimes could be heroes as well... sometimes.

[@Chris_Sizemore]

I honestly have no complaints about the 01. For a heavy mech, the speed is shocking. For a 60 ton mech, it brings firepower you expect from 75+ ton mechs. Even from mechs of the same era. That said, the only good variant is the 09 that Bear talked about. Out of the dozen variants made, the other 11 disrupt the balance the 01 achieved for no real improvement. They either gain heat, or lose firepower, and/or lower speed. The variants that mount Star League era Extended Ranged weapons are especially bad since they build extra heat for only a modest increase in range. The LNC25-01 isn't suited to be treated as a trooper mech. Its best role would be in a dedicated harasser lance. Range and speed would make the mech very hard to hit. It would also be good as fire support for a scout lance, or even forming a scout lance for an assault company, or as a linch pin for a light or medium lance.

[@eddapultstab2078]

One of the arguably best variants I have seen downgrades the er weapons for standard. Sacrificing practical range for constant face rolling on weapons. Both er and non er versions have their uses and playstyles

[@Kingofdragons117]

If I had my way, I would just downgrade the PPC for a Large Laser and put the extra weight for armor.

[@ajnelson1975]

I feel like the lancelot is just a diet Black Knight.

[@BigRed40TECH]

But it's still so good. And it's fast.

[@Demolitiondude]

It's only a flesh wound.

[@kylebarrie2887]

This could have been a replacement for the Rifleman...it does everything better other than air support.

[@bigt4331]

Does anyone play BTA 3062? Love battletech and that game!

[@clydecraft5642]

I play it, i run an ostscout with stealth armor as the centre point of my lance with tengu and grenadier battlearmor as backup to a hollander with mortar launchers, an awesome with 2 snub and 2 regular ppcs with 2 medium lasers and bap, and now joined by a bj2 omni, also have a assortment of utility vehicles

[@bigt4331]

@@clydecraft5642 friken awesome, I love getting a new to me mech and then coming on here to learn about them. I have a CC Strider as scout mech that kicks ass!

[@clydecraft5642]

@@bigt4331 if you can try and get an upgraded ostscout i got one that came with an xl engine 2 ml and tag, and it has c3 slave, ecm, and the stealth, and it has a custom mech quirk that gives lancemates another +1 to hit ontop of c3 dlave

[@bigt4331]

@@clydecraft5642 sounds like a pretty custom mech. I'll keep my eyes out!!

[@gregdomenico1891]

I'm toward late game on this play thru, so I'm running mostly Assualts. (Mostly Dire Wolves and one realy nasty Clan spec Guasszilla). My recon/ spotter/ backstabber is a 75 ton Clan Black Python with a tubocharger and all the fun electronics. Has lots of support points for small pulses, making it great for back strikes. If you can get one, get a LRM Carrier MK2.( The MK 1 Sucks). Really slow, but carries 3 LRM 20's with tons of ammo.

[@CRAZYUNCLE117]

The lancelot today, or should I say, "the rifleman MK1"? Why is it mechs with no arm actuators become worse and worse for front line combat as time goes on? Lancelot, BJ-1, Rifleman, jagger, and whatever is coming next!

[@RidinDirtyRollinBurnouts]

Cuz those mechs are usually considered fire-support mechs. Low tonnage fire-suppprt mechs imo sacrifice a lot of qualities to satisfy the first one. Also canon vs in-game performance is usually wildly different

[@eddapultstab2078]

Most of those mechs serve a specific, second line role, also the bj isn't so bad. The lamcelot is also the Rolls-Royce of the bunch as it costs over 14 million c-bills for that performance, or almost 3 rifleman. It's a solid mech but at a price.

[@CRAZYUNCLE117]

@@RidinDirtyRollinBurnouts I was being subtle about it, but my point was that as armor tech increases the direct fire mech weapons deliver less and less impressive damage. I'm sure even a jagger, if brought out soon after the mackie, would be devastatingly effective on all fronts. Although, now...

[@CRAZYUNCLE117]

@@eddapultstab2078 I was just making a point that as armor tech evolves, the less effective these direct fire mechs become.

[@eddapultstab2078]

@@CRAZYUNCLE117 well if you think about it all a gun arm, with no lower and hand actuator, is basically a gyro stabilized platform. Their nothing really innovative, atleast for 2750, for that design scheme. Most of the issues of those mechs are actually limited by weapons of their time. Autocannons in particular are the least weight efficient weapons. Lbx series shaves a little weight and ultra is slightly heavier but helps the damage to weight ratio. It's until clan technology which almost uniformly decreases weight in all weapon classes, except possibly lasers. The xl engine lightens the load but at immense cost and risk. In the end payload and mission parameter is what gets in these mechs way. The rifleman could arguably do the same job with either the large lasers or Autocannons and relocating a set could significantly improve the design albeit limiting its overall firepower.

[@Keyrathify]

Do I even want to know what one of those would have cost compared to a standard mech of the line? Most companies/political entities would probably go bancrupt if they fielded more than a few of those, seeing as the whole thing is basically made of advanced technology. And seeing as it is effectively nothing special when downgraded that seems to be its main advantage. Advanced but cripplingly expensive tech. It's got the looks though. Kinda looks like Thanatos' little brother.

[@BigRed40TECH]

It wasn't crippling expensive - to the Star League.

[@cobalt968]

@@BigRed40TECH for that matter, the SLDF invented an extremely expensive and specialized type of mechs that fill an incredibly niche role that only the SLDF could support: the Land-Air Mech. To date, only one other faction has dabbled with them and that’s because they had all the tech in the IS and nothing to lose.

[@Keyrathify]

@@cobalt968 The concept of a land-air Mech alone is... questionable. While I get it's just a game, I just can't overlook the real life implications of trying to have a compact machine that weighs 50+ tons take to the skies. Jump jets in and for themselves are laughable if you think about it too hard, but wings to support flight? I just had to google modern plane weights and their wingspans. If you go off that you'd probably look at at least 30m of wingspan for a 50 ton mech. With giant turbines or jets to propell it and it would probably be either uncontrollable or fly like a brick since the control surfaces would be squished together in a small area. But hey. It's a game about big, stompy mechs, so I guess it's the rule of cool. :D

[@michaelmills8205]

Honestly, the succession wars downgrade is still a decent mech. It's not anyway near as good as the original version, but it's decently cooled for the era and it carries a lot of firepower for a 60 tonne mech. I'd compare it with the Ostsol/Ostsol or the Rifleman/Jagermech. It's not as fast as the Ost mechs, but it can manage it's heat better with comparable armour. For the Rifleman & Jagermech, it has better armour, better weapons and better cooling. It's a very solid trooper/sniper to mech to me.

[@raabaddler5802]

the 09, or ONI as in demon Dracs are such weebs, better load out would have been to just take the SLDF standrad with 3 LL and put the rest into armor

[@Qardo]

Marketing: Lancelot, dependable, loyal, and likely sleep with your girl with your back turned. *que hot Mech Girl Model sitting in the cockpit, lounging* Buy today!

[@matthewketterling2906]

Why don't they fix the flaw in the xl engine? Flaws can be fixed, even in battletech. Foolish to even have it in the game if the flaw can't be addressed. If your going to add all this new tech, fix the flaws!

[@BigRed40TECH]

It's called a Clantech XL engine :P

[@Alex-pj8nz]

Inferior to the black knight especially the Davion models.

[@jdmmike7225]

That doesn't mean it's a bad mech tho. The Black Knight is my absolute favorite mech but this Lancelot definitely has a place in my Lance.

[@dannyloss4051]

In intro tech? Sure, because it’s competing with the Black Knight with speed/armor/armaments. But you get that star league tech and it’s running 9 and firing everything but the medium laser at 2 extra heat at medium range. Once it goes into its proper niche of competing with the Dragon it’s much more attractive.

[@Alex-pj8nz]

@@dannyloss4051 the only star league thing about the black knight is the Endo steel, removed that and only 2 ton of armour is removed so it was used throughout the succession wars.

[@dannyloss4051]

@@Alex-pj8nz that’s correct and also why you don’t compare the black knight, which lost very little with the fall of tech, with the Lancelot, who got cut off at the knees