Bayazid Bastami - His Teachings and Ecstatic Utterances

[@PerennialWisdom]

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[@faustianecho]

A metalhead and also a sufi! \m/

[@PerennialWisdom]

Hehe :D Thank you for coming to this channel.

[@jangudan]

that \m/, is it dolob?

[@HugoMadizon]

Can you tell me about Dhul Nun al Misri? I cant find much.in english

[@PerennialWisdom]

We have had it. Here kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZulimeqrbWmeKc

[@purpleman1974]

Regarding the controversy you speak about in this episode (I am referring to the "I am God" type of statements by Bastami), many other mystics of all traditions went through the same misunderstanding by others, who regarded that utterance as grandiose, when it´s actually the humblest, and the result of the annihilation of the human side of the mystic. If my memory does not fail, Balyiani, among the sufis, is another one who affirmed that when a person says "I am God" he´s not crazy or being heretic, since it is God Himself who is speaking through the mortal carcass of the mystic. It is not the mystic who claims His divinity, but God.

[@PerennialWisdom]

I'm agree with you. Most who misunderstand and accuse the intoxicated of being grandiose use their textual approach (bayānī in al-Jabri's term), that is, fuqaha (Islamic jurists), so that they cannot see the mystical utterances clearly. Textual approach is opaque to be used as the lens in reading the mystical experience, in particular the mystics' utterances in which they have exceeded the denotative and connotative meaning of words. Therefore, we should base our investigation of mystical utterances on ta'wīl (inward interpretation), instead of tafsīr, the outward one.

[@mohammedhanif6780]

@@PerennialWisdom so was Fir'awn the greatest mystic?

[@PerennialWisdom]

@Mohammed Hanif According to Rumi, no, he wasn't. Rumi writes: A Pharaoh said, “I am God” and was laid low; a Mansur (Hallaj) said, “I am God” and was saved. The former “I” is followed by God’s curse and the latter “I” by God’s mercy. For that one (Pharaoh) was a black stone, this one (Hallaj) a cornelian; that one was an enemy to the Light, and this one passionately enamoured of it. According to Mansur Hallaj, yes, he was. Ibn Arabi has two opinions about Pharaoh: yes and no. But I haven't been ready to discuss these two opinions.

[@mohammedhanif6780]

@@PerennialWisdom I may well be accused of being a hopeless exotericist, but that anyone could believe Fir'awn was even at all right in any way shows how they've completely disregarded the Prophetic teaching for their own convolutions.

[@PerennialWisdom]

@Mohammed Hanif Surely! They may have regarded the prophetic teaching in one side, and in the other it is said that "al-ulama are the heirs of the Prophets." According to my master the term ulama refers ulama arif billah (the Sufis themselves). And Surely not. They may not have disregarded the prophetic teaching. They only "read" a thing in such a conspicuously different way that we misconceive what they say. But, yes, indeed, they (as if) disregard the prophetic teaching.

[@fatoubinetou1031]

So then why he died

[@PerennialWisdom]

You really didn't get it.